Suggestion: Remove the level requirement for fractal scale 1-25 on lfg

Sub level 80 characters can do fractals and are upscaled to level 80 when doing them. This can expose new players to fractals, make fractals fun and challenging while running a lower level alt for experienced players, and can be a method to gain exp and rewards while leveling an alt. Scales 1-19 don't have any agony requirements, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem for sub 80 characters who can't get agony resistance gear. Player discretion can be used for level 80s who don't want to party with lower levels, just like dungeons. Alternatively, you could make a separate lfg category.

Having your level upscaled is not the same as having your stats upscaled. Your gear will still be terrible. Your runes will be subpar.

If you are a lowbie and want to do fractals, join a guild and ask them. You probably don't even know what fractals are until you hit level 60-70, unless your guild tells you. I've taken lower level players through fractals before. They aren't fun experiences for them. Lowbie automatically draw aggro harder and from farther away. They have to stop 300-500 range further back to not pull that mob. You shouldn't be using lfg if you want to run a fractal party that is that badly qualified. (And if you want to, have someone else in your guild/a friend open it. Easy. Don't have friends? Don't expect others to carry you.)

Let's not even get started on AR requirements.

You are introducing an avenue where players can be toxic to new players. Having fractals be level 80 content is perfectly fine. It gives people content to work towards. Play PvE to level up. Play dungeons and open world world bosses to get gear and level up. Play fractals to get gear and experience for raids. Play raids so you can go back to fractal CMs and tell everyone how big your amazing you are. Players already get touchy if you play odd builds in fractals. Players at scale 1-25 are learning the content. They shouldn't be expected to carry lowbies while they're at it.

The lack of an AR requirement for L1-19 already allows newer players to join. I don't think it's that much of a burden to require L80 for starting fractals (sub-L80 can already join a group -- I've leveled many an alt thanks to friends who let me leech).

I'll have to agree with the OP here. fractals 1-29 can actually be done by lower level characters. Now below 70 may be pushing it. but a 75 party won't be having too much of an issue. If anything, it'd be like stepping into dungeons back in the days where no one knew the 'optimal' meta and got curb stomped for it.

The rewards for them aren't really completely limited to 80 use only either.

i saw players with 193 Mastery and no able to play fractal 4.

I'd rather have dungeons being more advertised across the community as the initial instanced group content for newer players, so that newcomers - on sub-80 toons - join and play through dungeons before stepping into fractals.

Rather than just dismissing this as perfectly fine like everyone else's initial reaction here, there's some annoyance with the LFG having level requirements.

You can't view the LFG with the level requirement if you don't meet the requirements.But also: You can't view the LFG if someone in your party doesn't meet the requirements.

I don't see a huge issue on removing any such requirements for simply viewing the LFG sections. It can also be useful if you want to to Tier 4 fractals with your decked out character, and you simply don't have the option to join Tier 4 because you haven't attained the right fractal level yet. Then you can view the LFG and simply whisper a person within that group to invite you in.

Also, prefer to unlock generally ALL features of the LFG even if I'm on a lower level alt. (unlock it accountwide if you have the lvl requirements on an alternate character.) Of course, you could also switch character, but it feels strange to do so just to view and interact with the LFG. Maybe I like to play my lower level character while waiting for a fitting LFG to come up or even post one.

Plus new players in early fractals being a problem? With the level 80 boost this will be a thing regardless.

There's definitely cases where I can see joining with a lower level character shouldn't be allowed, but with all the options to circumvent that exact same thing I don't see these requirements all that necessary at all and just a mere hindrance that shouldn't be there.

Definitely some cases where I can see that the restrictions are a bit too much.

Ok, perhaps not so much for exposing fractals to new players, but for a challenge and alternate way of leveling up an alt for experienced players. Just like dungeons, it could always still state a "recommended level" of 80, instead of having it as a requirement, to let new players know that it's challenging content. If the whole party was comprised of sub 80 characters, then it could be more fun for all of them. As I said in my initial post, player discretion must be used. If you don't want to carry a lowbie, then you don't have to. If you want to have some fun with other sub 80 characters, then it's up to you. If you don't mind carrying sub 80 characters, that's your prerogative. I've done as much, if not more dps on sub 80 characters than lv 80 party members before. If a sub 80 player outperforms a lv 80 player, who's carrying who? And think of all the theorycrafting for sub 80 characters who can't access all traitlines! =)

@Moogri.1935 said:Ok, perhaps not so much for exposing fractals to new players, but for a challenge and alternate way of leveling up an alt for experienced players. Just like dungeons, it could always still state a "recommended level" of 80, instead of having it as a requirement, to let new players know that it's challenging content. If the whole party was comprised of sub 80 characters, then it could be more fun for all of them. As I said in my initial post, player discretion must be used. If you don't want to carry a lowbie, then you don't have to. If you want to have some fun with other sub 80 characters, then it's up to you. If you don't mind carrying sub 80 characters, that's your prerogative. I've done as much, if not more dps on sub 80 characters than lv 80 party members before. If a sub 80 player outperforms a lv 80 player, who's carrying who? And think of all the theorycrafting for sub 80 characters who can't access all traitlines! =)

Doesn't change the fact that letting the community police itself will just lead to tons of toxicity. Also doesn't change the fact that level 80 is not that high of a barrier. Dungeons exist. Dailies exist. GUILDS exist. Getting to max level in GW2 is probably faster and easier than any other comparable game out there. Anecdotal "well I had high dps than that other guy" means nothing, because we aren't talking about you. We're talking about thousands of new players.

Also, doesn't change the fact that games need a sense of progression in order to feel rewarding. What if you started the game at level 80? You'd be lost. You'd have no idea what your skills did, no idea what dodge rolling was, no idea what content you should try to play. You'd have no idea what the game could offer you.

Can I agree that personal reward level lfg locking is too harsh atm? Yeah. Will I agree that sub-80s should be encouraged to attempt fractals, when most of them will have almost no level 80 experience? Hell no. The content was built around being level 80. The fractal community is built around being level 80. Telling us that we can just kick them or set stricter limitations on our lfgs is just unnecessary, and unfun.

Maybe? 1-25 is pretty much on par with core dungeons...if not easier. 1-10 sure is easier than core dungeons.

This is one of those thinga where theres no reason to change it but the proposed changw wouldnt hurt anything.

Its not like you couodnt just kick sub-80s if you didnt want them.

@drkn.3429 said:I'd rather have dungeons being more advertised across the community as the initial instanced group content for newer players, so that newcomers - on sub-80 toons - join and play through dungeons before stepping into fractals.

I agree. Before stepping into fractals get some experience in dungeons.

Agreed, Back before LFG System, loved taking my sub-80 chars in to gear them every few levels if I'm low on gear... it really don't put you at too much of a disadvantage, especially if you already have all 3 trait lines.

I disagree because Fractals should be the endgame content.

I rather Dungeons get reworked as a leveling instanced content. Such as, making AC be a level 10 dungeon and each dungeon after that increases by +10.

So you want the LFG board entirely populated with "CoF p1 meta builds only 50k AP 800 li" becuase people freak out at the thought of having inexperienced players? That's the kind of crap you see for CoF and this one is really the most faceroll of all faceroll content.

Even with the current limitations in place, people put such requirements in the LFG regardless.Whether you think fractals should be "endgame content" ArenaNet made it so you are upscaled, which means, that at some point in time, they made it so any level could join fractals. If that's not what they want, then why would they even upscale these characters. What makes it even more confusing is that people below level 80 can enter fractals perfectly fine, and have NO LFG available to them, because of these limitations.

The system is really inconsistent in what "it's supposed to be". On the one hand it upscales you, you're allowed to enter fractals, you're allowed to even complete them.On the other hand, the LFG says, WTF are you doing here, you're supposed to play with level 80 only in here otherwise you're not allowed to invite other (random) people in there.

The LFG is there to form parties with the same interest, to let players find groups according to their preferences. Not to set those standards for them, that's not what an LFG is supposed to do, generally speaking.

This IS a good suggestion.

BUT with one caveat: Do not allow sub 80s to join groups not started by sub 80s. Everyone else can join these groups. These groups get markedThis prevents sub 80s from messing with hardcore 80s people that don't want to take 30 seconds longer, while giving 80s the chance to show off in sub 80s groups. Everyone wins, nobody loses (except the designer that spends an hour on this feature).

Fractals 1-20 would be much more fun at lower levels, because they might have at least a bit of challenge, and closing this off from people is silly.

Wait, are or aren't people upscaled to 80 in fractals nowadays? I'm confused what you mean to change..

A long time ago (at least 3,5 years) I had a guild group of 5 where we all made new lvl 2 characters, with the sole purpose of doing fractals.. We were bored and wanted to see if it could be done. Each person had to pick a class they never played before, to remove familiarity with the class. We had no gear, no utility/elite skills, no traits, only the first healing skill, and we even had to unlock most of our weapon skills by killing stuff first. Back then you also had to finish 3 or 4 fractals you couldn't pick yourself. They were random. It was a challenge, but we made it through eventually. When we hit fractal lvl 10, our characters were only level 8, and couldn't equip AR stuff obviously, so that's where we quit.

If that's no longer possible I'd be sad, because I like looking for stupid stuff like that. If it's stupid but it works.. :)