Upcoming rev changes

In addition to some changes to Coalescence of Ruin and Gaze of Darkness aimed at WvW play, we are also tuning up a few of Mallyx's Legendary Demon Stance skills from the last update as we felt they ended up on the weak side. Jalis's Legendary Dwarf Stance skills are also seeing some improvements aimed at making them more powerful and easier to use to better warrant the use of your energy.

Coalescence of Ruin: This skill no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; it now always deals damage equal to what was previously the second-impact damage. Its damage remains split between game modes. Added a red warning rectangle visible to enemies.Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the recharge from 10 seconds to 3 seconds.Gaze of Darkness: This skill now reveals stealth enemies up to a range of 600, inflicting blindness and vulnerability.True Nature (Assassin): Reduced radius from 600 to 360.Call to Anguish: Decreased energy cost from 35 to 30. Reduced recharge from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased radius from 240 to 360. Damage increased by 33%.Inspiring Reinforcement: Increased pulsing stability duration from 1.5 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased initial stability duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased the speed at which the road is built by 100%. Increased road length from 600 to 900.Forced Engagement: Increased damage reduction from taunted targets from 20% to 33%. This skill now also throws chains at up to 4 additional targets within a range of 360 of the selected target.Focused Siphoning: Increased base healing by 88% in PvE.Elder's Respite: Added a 10-second internal cooldown to this trait.

Clocked out for lunch and saw these...holy buffs batman! Jalis and Mallyx changes are juicy. Thank you ANet for adjusting the cooldowns for EtD and CtA! The Forced Engagement change looks insane. Sorry Justine for your hammer sacrifice.

These are really good. Faith slowly coming back.

Wow, Jalis is looking pretty nice and I think Mallyx might actually regain some fluidity.

I do not think the changes to Jailis or Mallyx are good.

Jailis will continue to have the same issues it currently has. A buff to Inspiring Reinforcement does not solve the energy issues or make you more survivable. I am also not sure regarding 900 range. It needs wider AOE not longer.

Call to Anguish is still bad. It is better, but still bad skill. It is not good in PvE. It has the same issues in PvP. Mallyx still not PvP viable. Embrace the Darkness, I never understood why a 10 sec CD was there to begin with.

I think the only really good change is: "Focused Siphoning: Increased base healing by 88% in PvE." Will it make power rev competitive in PvE? No, but it continues the trend of a buff every patch. Maybe in 10 patches from now.

@otto.5684 said:I do not think the changes to Jailis or Mallyx are good.Let's not be silly, these changes are good. They're not the complete redefining updates that you're expecting but let's be realistic for at least a minute.

@phokus.8934 said:

@"otto.5684" said:I do not think the changes to Jailis or Mallyx are good.Let's not be silly, these changes are good. They're not the complete redefining updates that you're expecting but let's be realistic for at least a minute.

Are these changes going to make Jailis or Mallyx PvP viable? No.Are these changes going to make Mallyx better in PvE? Slightly, but overall damage is not impacted.Are these changes going add anything new to the class? No.

So being "realistic," we have changes that do not effectively change anything, beside small QoL improvements.

I am certain that rev needs way more than that.

@otto.5684 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@otto.5684 said:I do not think the changes to Jailis or Mallyx are good.Let's not be silly, these changes are good. They're not the complete redefining updates that you're expecting but let's be realistic for at least a minute.

No one is denying that they could use more but these changes are nothing but good. Energy reduction, cooldown reduction... to argue they're not good is just stupid.

And these are not QoL improvements, these are buffs.

HOLY MOLEY!!! Man I play Core Revenant in WvW, loving this

actually im fine with the changes.u guys should be happy that there wasnt a bigger nerf than just the hammer 2, which is still decent

Disregarding hammer... all changes good including the one nerf to the shiro facet.

SeemsGood Anet at least for this patch things are all right in revenant world.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Clocked out for lunch and saw these...holy buffs batman! Jalis and Mallyx changes are juicy. Thank you ANet for adjusting the cooldowns for EtD and CtA! The Forced Engagement change looks insane. Sorry Justine for your hammer sacrifice.

Lol that damage nerf is nothing. It's so meaningless and yet people think it will really help. Just give it 6-12 months and people will start to cry it does too much damage once again

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Disregarding hammer... all changes good including the one nerf to the shiro facet.

SeemsGood Anet at least for this patch things are all right in revenant world.

Yeah I agree, and I think the radius adjustment on Shiro ToN was a smart approach.

Although this probably has little practical relevance in hard content, it's cool to think that Revs can live a legit tank fantasy in open world. I imagine a condi Mallyx/Jalis build would work really well for that. I'm really excited to play with our new shinies.

I agree while buffs are nice the overall theme will not make them overly better or more viable in the long run.. Many of revenants skills are pretty bad, making them larger will not help in anyway.

@otto.5684 said:Jailis will continue to have the same issues it currently has. A buff to Inspiring Reinforcement does not solve the energy issues or make you more survivable. I am also not sure regarding 900 range. It needs wider AOE not longer.

I have to say otto has a point here, as the maneuver of the group, at least in WvW, most of the time involves some strafing or diagonal movement. Nevertheless I'd happy to see these buffs implemented as I play Frontline Herald in WvW and do feel the current range of Inspiring Reinforcement is a bit less than desired, particularly when your group is providing Superspeed.

Another point by otto, which I also agree, is the energy issue. In Dwarf Stance, utility (mostly IR, as the other two are mostly lacklusters) and elite are draining so much energy to the point that, your combat effectiveness in terms of weapon skills are close to locked out. IR alone costs you 30, while Warding Rift costs you 10 and Renewing Wave costs you 15, which means that after the initial chain you are completely knackered and cannot perform anything meaningful for the next few seconds or before you can switch back to Dragon Stance again.

forced engagement is about to be lit fam

Wooohooo finally AoE forced engagement.Waiting for this since I made my rev.

Those are very healthy changes for Jalis, for Mallyx some of it is good.. Some of it is too good and makes me afraid for the legend. I hope this is the last buff they give it and try to address traits instead like Replenishing Despair ICD to be removed or Spontaneous Destruction not being so Spontaneous would deserve a cool down of about 10 seconds instead.

Stuff like Banish Enchantment could see some changes to transfer conditions / trade / corrupt boons (I'd prefer transfer) rather than just being as it is, even though it's extremely strong against stuff like Boon Beast or Firebrands, Mallyx users have no incentive to run anything but Pulsating Pestilence because of all of the condition pressure that they bring on themselves. This could make Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence much more appealing to use.

Mostly because MP alone is one trait that you'd want to have transfer for the self inflicted Torment, this one doesn't hurt the user much but when transferred it does the amount of damage it should.

Diabolic Inferno could see an extra burning stack.

Haven't played WvW in a while but the buffs to Mallyx CtA and EtD look promising for roaming. My biggest issue was the CD on EtD causing Mallyx to feel extremely clunky since the last patch. CtA buff is nice, the damage increase isn't really relevant to me but i appreciate the old 30E cost and CD reduction. That will revert mobility back to old standards. Larger radius is nice as well.

@Shao.7236 said:I hope this is the last buff they give it and try to address traits instead like Replenishing Despair ICD to be removed or Spontaneous Destruction not being so Spontaneous would deserve a cool down of about 10 seconds instead.

Mallyx users have no incentive to run anything but Pulsating Pestilence because of all of the condition pressure that they bring on themselves. This could make Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence much more appealing to use.

Mostly because MP alone is one trait that you'd want to have transfer for the self inflicted Torment, this one doesn't hurt the user much but when transferred it does the amount of damage it should.

Diabolic Inferno could see an extra burning stack.

I agree that CtA and EtD are pretty much done and should be left alone at this point, moving value from Pulsating Pestilence to the utility skills or other trait/legend mechanics would be preferable to me to give room for other (grandmaster) traits to be viable. Traits (And mabey pain absorption) are the last frontier for Mallyx balance.

Forced effin Engagement. Finally, I've been waiting for this change since forever! It's great!

I love the changes, I don't have a single question about them. These things will help other Legends keep up with the game and it's all great and bananas.

What I want to see next are:

• Corruption Rework
• Renegade Rework

It won't change much but it is at least a start.

The way i see it

• CoR made easier to use at the cost of lower damage. Visual effect doesnt matter. I wish they would decrease cd back to 2sec in pve at least. Hammer gonna continue to be a potato and might even fall off in wvw meta making it another dead weapon.
• EtD should never have a cd in the first place as a upkeep. 3cd seems ok but we cant forget that it can be interrupted and cd itself get affected by chill
• Gaze radius increase was needed long ago. Rest is simply a buff making Glint even stronger than she was
• Assassin true nature seems to be like another random nerf aimed at Shiro
• Call to anguish - same as EtD it shouldnt have a cd. Increased pull range is nice and all but it doesnt not solve the issues this skill had in being easy to interrupt by literally anything. Damage increase doesnt matter on a condi spec and seems like another random buff
• Inspiring reinforcement like call of anguish doesnt solve any issues it had either. Making the road longer is not solving it issues with being narrow and static. Why they refuse to bring underwater version to this skill?
• Forced engage sounds like insane buff on a paper. But its still a slow projectile that can be deflected or even reflected and taunt you and your members instead lmao

Overall i suppose the devs were thinking was "BIGGER AND MOAR, THAT WILL MAKE IT VIABLE" when in reality none of the issues were addressed and everything will continue to remain unviable as it always had

I rate this patch 3/10

@"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

• CoR made easier to use at the cost of lower damage. Visual effect doesnt matter. I wish they would decrease cd back to 2sec in pve at least. Hammer gonna continue to be a potato and might even fall off in wvw meta making it another dead weapon.

Hammer is a potato because the main burst relies on terrain, that's what needs to be changed. Otherwise it's fine and quite powerful given you can hit the last aoe with 25 might berserker notoriety, skill 3 being a safe telegraphed sword 5 equivalent is damn awesome.

• EtD should never have a cd in the first place as a upkeep. 3cd seems ok but we cant forget that it can be interrupted and cd itself get affected by chill

It has a cool down because it's main burst that goes up to 20 torment stacks if executed perfectly, lowering the cooldown this low or entirely removing it is straight up power creep.

• Gaze radius increase was needed long ago. Rest is simply a buff making Glint even stronger than she was

Only tracking skills would allow proper landing, so finally having a radius to counter DeadEye perma stealth is quite nice, this goes for a lot of other skills in other professions

• Assassin true nature seems to be like another random nerf aimed at Shiro

Big AoE Unblockable instant cast that hits for like 5k with the added boon strips, I can see why it was nerfed. The passive is probably still going to be the same range. Maybe they could do the same with the rest of legends, I wouldn't be mad at uniformity.

• Call to anguish - same as EtD it shouldnt have a cd. Increased pull range is nice and all but it doesnt not solve the issues this skill had in being easy to interrupt by literally anything. Damage increase doesnt matter on a condi spec and seems like another random buff

Spamming is power creep and isn't necessary, CtA is just as vulnerable as Phase Traversal is, I don't know why people even say that Phase Traversal is that good when you basically port to someone that can just blast/CC as soon as you use the utility. Hint hint, one shot mesmers know what I'm talking about.

• Inspiring reinforcement like call of anguish doesnt solve any issues it had either. Making the road longer is not solving it issues with being narrow and static. Why they refuse to bring underwater version to this skill?

I agree that a mobile version "could" be useful but you're forgetting about how it could also fear lock you until it's duration is over unlike a static aoe that you'd eventually walk out of. So the decision to not make it that way is fair to me, under water combat is also too different from land to compare but I think it could still happen. For now it's probably better to let the existing skill see it's own improvements before calling it "useless", the skill afterall is unique and no profession has access to this much stability nor giving consistently.

• Forced engage sounds like insane buff on a paper. But its still a slow projectile that can be deflected or even reflected and taunt you and your members instead lmao

Now that's just pesimistic over nothing, this is a good change and it would be stupid to not watch it unfold as we don't even know if it's final. Sure is going to be more useful. To call it slow is funny because damn the skill animation is lacky and clunky to evade, I've had so many complains about it. I personally just want to say that anything is evadable, just don't use something so quickly if you know people can evade it so easily. After an evade that you can provocate doing other things, that's more like it.

Overall i suppose the devs were thinking was "BIGGER AND MOAR, THAT WILL MAKE IT VIABLE" when in reality none of the issues were addressed and everything will continue to remain unviable as it always had

You forgot a few details, but fine. If that's how you see it I can't really stop you. CtA already felt OP to randomly pull 3 people to blast, bigger makes it easier. Same for Inspiring Reinforcement that will also appear faster, more weakness from further away. It actually makes it easier for the user to benefit from it.

I'm copying my post from the patch note thread from Anet just to add to the discussion here to my Revenant brethren and sistren. Most of this stuff I have mentioned before in other posts, but I figured I'd make a post with a consolidated lists of points. Just some opinions from a guy who'd like to think he knows what he's talking about.

Overall, I am happy with these changes for Revenant. I find them to be well-implemented and a positive step in the right direction. Forced Engagement is the highlight of the changes for me, gaining huge impact potential. The cooldown reductions to Mallyx, as well as the Call to Anguish change, will put the legend at a pretty nice spot and I really look forward to trying it out with a lot of its flow restored. Overall this feels like a big win for the core class, which I am very enthusiastic about. I will list some issues that I'd like to see focused on in the future:

• Both Jalis and Mallyx have their stunbreaks attached to skills that have cast times. This is less of an issue for Jalis as it has stability to help alleviate this, but with Mallyx, it is more glaring. I would suggest that Pain Absorption gain its self-resistance boon immediately upon skill usage, while the remaining functionality be dependent upon the cast time. This way, the skill can be stowed for an instant stunbreak while still gaining some benefit to the skill beyond just the stunbreak.
• On the topic of stunbreaks, I think it is important that in today's powercreep, Ventari gain the benefit of having access to one. Purifying Essence is the obvious choice in my eyes, and could be raised to an energy cost of 30 to mirror Pain Absorption/Riposting Shadows. An extra condition clear added on would be fair for this as well.
• The healing orbs for Salvation are quite clunky in their current form due to their short duration, semi-random spawning location, and small pickup radius. I think they would immediately become more impactful if Healer's Gift, for example, caused all healing orbs to travel to the lowest health nearby ally. This would dramatically improve their performance and actually make the mechanic more respectable. If the healing orb mechanic is meant to be a star feature of the traitline, it needs to be given the proper treatment to actually shine.
• Regeneration was a core component to Salvation, and this has been removed. I would like for this to be reintroduced into the tree. My personal idea is to change the functionality of Words of Censure to the following: Spawn a healing orb when removing a condition from an ally. Healing orbs grant regeneration. This would further amplify the impact of healing orbs, diversify regeneration access for the class, and provide better support synergy to Mallyx's condition manipulation.
• Revenant remains the only class to have no trait or skill that interacts with revival. I consider this to be more of an oversight than an intentional design decision, especially since Revenant has a more inherently supportive toolkit at its core than many other classes. It is a point that bugs me a bit, similarly to Glamour and Spectral skills no longer having a dedicated trait. I would like to see this implemented either through Ventari's tablet, Salvation, or Invocation. A quick idea is for a rez trait to replace Fierce Infusion, which is a rather lackluster trait in Invocation. Something like: Increase your revival speed by 10%. Further increase your revival speed for each upkeep point currently in use. Another idea is for Ventari's tablet to increase incoming revival speed by X% within Y radius, giving the tablet a potential large impact in group play as it would increase the revival speed of all allies currently reviving.
• Ventari's 3 second cooldown on Ventari's Will makes the legend feel a bit clunky to use given the high-speed pace that combat occurs at. Lowering the cooldown to 2 seconds (and implementing a 3s ICD to Blinding Truths) would allow for the legend to become much more successful in reactive supportive actions. Between this and Purifying Essence becoming a stunbreak, the legend would be at a very healthy spot.
• I would like to see a bit more support synergy with legends, and I'd particularly like for the combination of Jalis and Ventari to gain further momentum. While I appreciate the impact of Draconic Echo Herald, I overall find Glint's passive boon application to be uninteractive and passive in regards to a support playstyle. A personal desire of mine is to give AoE barrier application to Rite of the Great Dwarf or to instead attach it to Versed in Stone. I think that is all the legend would need at that point. I don't really know if Shiro has the space to become more supportive due to the nature of its legend skills, but perhaps for Mallyx, Demonic Defiance's damage reduction could also apply to resistance applied to allies.
• Core lacks a defensive offhand weapon. I consider this to be a considerably glaring issue. Offhand sword's rework was a significant change and created a really strong weapon choice for power Revenants, but it left less weapon diversity for non-power Revenants. This is perhaps not an issue for Heralds, but it is for the core class, Renegade, and any future elite spec that is implemented. As an example, a core condi Revenant will naturally want to take both mace and axe. Mainhand sword has condition damage synergy via Abyssal Chill, but there is no offhand weapon that could really pair with it, especially with the removal of the slow/chill application on Deathstrike (which I agree with, mind you) for offhand sword. I'd say that this is part of the reason that staff sees so much play in competitive modes for any build. To avoid overlap, I would ideally like for Herald's shield be tweaked to become more supportive to leave space for a new core offhand weapon: focus. Two skills that I think would fit well for any (PvP/WvW) build would be 1. a block, and 2. boon removal, similar to Necromancer's Spinal Shivers.

Beyond that, I think some attention to the Corruption traitline would be of benefit. There are some great traits in there, but the traitline could use some updating to the lesser performing traits. I don't really have any suggestions on what this could be, but I consider Replenishing Despair, Spontaneous Destruction, and Maniacal Persistence in biggest need of attention.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

• Both Jalis and Mallyx have their stunbreaks attached to skills that have cast times. This is less of an issue for Jalis as it has stability to help alleviate this, but with Mallyx, it is more glaring. I would suggest that Pain Absorption gain its self-resistance boon immediately upon skill usage, while the remaining functionality be dependent upon the cast time. This way, the skill can be stowed for an instant stunbreak while still gaining some benefit to the skill beyond just the stunbreak.

Mixed feelings, though I can see why you're coming from with Pain Absorption as it can be easily interrupted, but maybe those are the trade off for having so much resistance. RotGD really needs to be a half a second to be in line with everything.

• On the topic of stunbreaks, I think it is important that in today's powercreep, Ventari gain the benefit of having access to one. Purifying Essence is the obvious choice in my eyes, and could be raised to an energy cost of 30 to mirror Pain Absorption/Riposting Shadows. An extra condition clear added on would be fair for this as well.

With the added condition pressure yeah, 4 conditions make sense while the stunbreak would finally make it viable for teamfights.

• The healing orbs for Salvation are quite clunky in their current form due to their short duration, semi-random spawning location, and small pickup radius. I think they would immediately become more impactful if Healer's Gift, for example, caused all healing orbs to travel to the lowest health nearby ally. This would dramatically improve their performance and actually make the mechanic more respectable. If the healing orb mechanic is meant to be a star feature of the traitline, it needs to be given the proper treatment to actually shine.

They could also just make the orbs bigger like Mirage mirrors are.

• Regeneration was a core component to Salvation, and this has been removed. I would like for this to be reintroduced into the tree. My personal idea is to change the functionality of Words of Censure to the following: Spawn a healing orb when removing a condition from an ally. Healing orbs grant regeneration. This would further amplify the impact of healing orbs, diversify regeneration access for the class, and provide better support synergy to Mallyx's condition manipulation.

Feels like a good idea, though Revenant does have really strong raw healing while Herald does provide easily Regeneration and can be improved, so there might be some reasons why that isn't the case.

• Revenant remains the only class to have no trait or skill that interacts with revival. I consider this to be more of an oversight than an intentional design decision, especially since Revenant has a more inherently supportive toolkit at its core than many other classes. It is a point that bugs me a bit, similarly to Glamour and Spectral skills no longer having a dedicated trait. I would like to see this implemented either through Ventari's tablet, Salvation, or Invocation. A quick idea is for a rez trait to replace Fierce Infusion, which is a rather lackluster trait in Invocation. Something like: Increase your revival speed by 10%. Further increase your revival speed for each upkeep point currently in use. Another idea is for Ventari's tablet to increase incoming revival speed by X% within Y radius, giving the tablet a potential large impact in group play as it would increase the revival speed of all allies currently reviving.

Remember the Herald one that would also trigger a short Infuse Light? It used to be kinda OP to just randomly res someone mid fights. Though it seems like Revenant would need to get one faster res at their core traits, Herald does have the ability to apply protection around and mitigate damage on downed teammates, same for Mallyx Spirit Boon which can be really strong to proc around a res.

• Ventari's 3 second cooldown on Ventari's Will makes the legend feel a bit clunky to use given the high-speed pace that combat occurs at. Lowering the cooldown to 2 seconds (and implementing a 3s ICD to Blinding Truths) would allow for the legend to become much more successful in reactive supportive actions. Between this and Purifying Essence becoming a stunbreak, the legend would be at a very healthy spot.

Honestly if they are to keep it that would it would be so much better if the Tablet would just Tether and follow the Revenant on first appearance and whenever using the heal skill (Which can balance out those rune benefits), it would unlink from the Revenant and destroying it would be required to make it follow again. Because as it is, Healing people with their random movements in a small radius is just too hard and is very node focused.

• I would like to see a bit more support synergy with legends, and I'd particularly like for the combination of Jalis and Ventari to gain further momentum. While I appreciate the impact of Draconic Echo Herald, I overall find Glint's passive boon application to be uninteractive and passive in regards to a support playstyle. A personal desire of mine is to give AoE barrier application to Rite of the Great Dwarf or to instead attach it to Versed in Stone. I think that is all the legend would need at that point. I don't really know if Shiro has the space to become more supportive due to the nature of its legend skills, but perhaps for Mallyx, Demonic Defiance's damage reduction could also apply to resistance applied to allies.

Honestly, the ability to even give Resistance is already pretty OP all around. Just like RotGD, being very pro active in between legends is where Anet really is focused on and those extra benefits are just to keep the user for the team if you ask me.

• Core lacks a defensive offhand weapon. I consider this to be a considerably glaring issue. Offhand sword's rework was a significant change and created a really strong weapon choice for power Revenants, but it left less weapon diversity for non-power Revenants. This is perhaps not an issue for Heralds, but it is for the core class, Renegade, and any future elite spec that is implemented. As an example, a core condi Revenant will naturally want to take both mace and axe. Mainhand sword has condition damage synergy via Abyssal Chill, but there is no offhand weapon that could really pair with it, especially with the removal of the slow/chill application on Deathstrike (which I agree with, mind you) for offhand sword. I'd say that this is part of the reason that staff sees so much play in competitive modes for any build. To avoid overlap, I would ideally like for Herald's shield be tweaked to become more supportive to leave space for a new core offhand weapon: focus. Two skills that I think would fit well for any (PvP/WvW) build would be 1. a block, and 2. boon removal, similar to Necromancer's Spinal Shivers.

Yes, they need to bring back Duelist Preparation slightly buffed or to work like Shield of Wrath does. Require about 3 hits to trigger Shackling Waves, but it should only be done by the player while the blocking stance can be kept for 2 seconds entirely. Having the old ability to block would make Revenants less dependent of staff, as for Deathstrike Anet has really dropped the ball by removing Chill and Slow, for whatever reason they just kept speeding up the animation to the point where it doesn't exist anymore which was unecessary. The very first reworked Deathstrike was a bit slow, so the first buff was justified because even with Quickness it was pretty easy to avoid, but now it's very cheesy.

Beyond that, I think some attention to the Corruption traitline would be of benefit. There are some great traits in there, but the traitline could use some updating to the lesser performing traits. I don't really have any suggestions on what this could be, but I consider Replenishing Despair, Spontaneous Destruction, and Maniacal Persistence in biggest need of attention.

Agree with all of that but do add Diabolic Inferno in there too, it really needs to have an extra burn stack or improve Burning somehow, while I'd like to mention that I still think Pulsating Pestilence should be placed into the Minor trait slot over Yearning Empowerment to be something that can be chosen.