Rock, Paper, RIP Scrapper

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Warrior

• Master:
  • Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.

I think most people knew that scrapper was not favorably matched against warrior, but holy crap, this trait can nullify scrapper's entire existence.

And maybe even scourge? :-O

@Trianox.3486 said:And maybe even scourge? :-O

Yep.

idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

That's not scrapper, that's holo.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

i know, im just saying, main point is it's tactic, you can't give up any line for the current build for a healer line without losing huge dps/sustain depend on you take strength or defense.

This is really interesting in WvW actually, as Warrior seems to be assigned the role of anti-barrier specialist. Cannot tell if people would actually take Tactics for this alone though.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

Wrong. Its about the barrier granted by the scrapper. No one talks about holo here, except for you basically saying "I WILL STILL HULK SMASH WARRIOR WITH HOLO" is like saying that thief outruns warrior.The topic is about wvw scrapper providing miniscule barriers passively and actively, sometimes only a 100 HP barrier but makes you extremly vulnerable to e.g. Primal Zerker Burst with GS or Gunflame, like anything pushing big numbers eradicating the small barrier and punishing for having one.

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

Except that Tactics is more than healing, it's also party DPS support, and some minor self DPS. Leg specialist is now 7%, warriors cunning is 50% versus any person with barrier, and martial cadence is extra weapon skill CD reduction, which is higher DPS. Scourges and scrappers are free kills now if you run tactics. Use warhorn 5 prior to burst and you are going to see very high numbers if they have barrier up.

@Aury.1367 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

did you not read what you quote, the main point is it's tactic.what prima zerker or dps build takes healer line.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

does it matter? party dps support it's still support, you are not disapproving my point, i don't know why are you quoting me for.you going to give up strength line for support line for dps now? or you giving up discipline for support line lol.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Aury.1367 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

Have YOU not read the update? There is a healing line, group DPS support line, and personal DPS line in tactics now. 50% versus barrier ends encounters with anyone with any amount of barrier. CD reduction on weapon skills is a savy way to increase overall DPS. Overall there is more DPS in tactics now than Discipline.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Aury.1367 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

so tell me, are you giving up strength line or discipline line.don't just talk about tactic it'self.arms line has +50% crit chance +100% crit chance and 500 ferocity, i don't see you taking it over discipline

you say tactics now more dps then discipline, it's like saying critical strike is more damage then trickery or explosive is more damage then tools.power war can not live without fast hand, even if it can, why don't you take arms, it's clearly way more dps then tactic ever does.

while your thinking is too simple (if you going to argue, at least provide some valid logical argument, every time you are just showing off how thoughtless your comments are), your judgement is also too early, trait isnt even out and you call it hard counter.

this trait is more of a "im support i normally do no damage, but i can shave off barrier" trait to me

Honestly, Str tactics zerk, or str tactics arms for core.

Might makes right and menders might is looking like they will be plenty of sustain for most things. And the CD reduction from martial cadence removes part of the need to weapon swap anyway.

Max DPS with a GS zerker is str, arms, zerk, or at least was, tactics may replace arms while still providing extra sustain. The extra ferocity from arms is nice, but the big reason to take that trait is the extra way unblockable procs and the extra vulnerability.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Honestly, Str tactics zerk, or str tactics arms for core.

Might makes right and menders might is looking like they will be plenty of sustain for most things. And the CD reduction from martial cadence removes part of the need to weapon swap anyway.

Max DPS with a GS zerker is str, arms, zerk, or at least was, tactics may replace arms while still providing extra sustain. The extra ferocity from arms is nice, but the big reason to take that trait is the extra way unblockable procs and the extra vulnerability.

this dude is seriously droping discipline for tactics for a core pvp power build, i'm done here bois, feels like i'm talking to bronze.

Talking in general here mate. You're the one with a set of blinders on for your miniscule game mode. That and these changes are WvW centric anyway and this thread is game mode agnostic thus far. Still, str tactics any is going to be strong no matter the game mode.

[EDIT:] Sorry for that previous post. When I first read about the + 50 % damage on targets with barrier, I was quite furious. Because Scrapper cannot deactivate barrier-generation at all.

But the more I think about your class and how it developed over the past 7 years, you have been a pure DPS from day 1 until today. Always with maximum damage output, most patches addressed to damage increase, elite-specializations which have one main focus = hurt everything. If I get hit by an Arc Divider, I usually die anyway - even without the +50%.

That one patch-note feels a bit like a slap in the face with a war-hammer equipped by an Ettin of Frenzy. But same is with this, I can only die once. We do not have an overhit mechanic in this game. I do not care if you kill me with a hit dealing 15k or 30k damage.

I hope some of you will try out the new support option in WvW, in terms of build variety. The rest we can see once the patch is live.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:As a Scrapper main, I want to say thank you for four years of challenging encounters. I never liked getting dominated by your kind, but I had a few moments in those two months my class was considered viable. I wish you the best of luck and lots of fun with the remaining 26 professions. Some of them use barrier as well.

PS: You do not have to use the trait to be honest. The existence of this trait is already enough motivation to keep the Scrapper out of competitive. Who with a right mind would risk it? Which is probably the sole reason they decided to add it. Minus one class to warry ... sry, worry about balancing.

I feel you mate. They should at least undo the vitality nerf in it's entirety for you guys. Warriors cunning is unfortunately dual purpose, so it'll get taken unless someone is running a heal build or group support build.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

Agreed, also I think because they add another source of barrier which is warrior warhorn 5, they gotta balance it with there is a class who can counter barrier.That being said people immidiately scared because of the 50% vs barrier, but remember warrior max only hitting 5, necro gives barrier for 10 people with F3, plus 5 of them get barrier if necro pop heal skill. If there is no barrier interfering I think Necro's dps with boonstrip and Herald could get better number, so this tactic is like indeed what you said DPS support. So in WvW Warrior destroy the barrier so Necro and Herald's damage is not eaten by barrier.Plus I think after this changes it's not like warrior will replace fully as DPS, I think Necro and Herald still favorable, I'd say... 6-7 warrior for full 50 man squad maybe mix on spellbreaker and berserker, but let's see how it is when it comes to live.

Sorry if I say only from the WvW standpoint because I don't play PvP and I am pretty sure PvE don't have much barrier encounter, unless they wanna make 1 in future.

@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

My point is though that there's never a point where Scrapper isn't generating barrier. So this trait is basically a 50% damage boost against all scrappers, which is massive considering it wasn't a favorable matchup before.

@DKRathalos.9625 well skills like Arc divider will end up hitting more than 5 targets, so a couple of warriors I'm the middle of the Zerg will clear out large swaths of barrier.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

There is point actually, I am not sure about PvP, but again on WvW scrapper will mostly spent time on med kit and elixir gun to cleanse, it's not like they will actively attack with hammer, occasionally they will throw Thunderclap to help CC but that's it on the full combat they will never be on hammer, another barrier source is bulwark gyro but that is quite long CD.

@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:idk how scrapper is not favorable against warrior...but i can 1v1 warrior as holo with arena and holo shield, relatively easy.specially with mortar kit blind field, it fks over warrior skills..

even if it is true, its only spellbreaker. not the whole warrior class

not to mention it's a tactic trait, what line you give up for tactic, lol unless you run bunker which you do very very low damage.

But even if they hit someone with a pistol, mortar, or e-gun, they will generate barrier, and the 50% damage buff becomes active.

Yes but it's not 100% uptime as you said in WvW, in PvP maybe yes, but WvW is not 100%, scrapper in wvw currently works as cleanser, and barely DPS ing which will convert the damage into barrier.

Power based DD warrior zerg builds need fast hand to rly function and not feel awkward af, they also kind of need defense for last stand and auto endure pain, to not explode like my brain reading some of these comments.Spellbreaker in a zerg is pretty much mandatory, because bubble is still the most important thing a warri can bring for the zerg.So no one will bring tactics just to do 50% dmg to barrier users. Except some gimmick warriors that would rly impact the way you play, because gimmicks usually dont work often as intended, sure they might SOMETIMES see insane numbers, but most of the time they are useless compared to other speccs.

Im going to use tactics on my shoutwarrior, but that one doesnt rly require fast hands to function (it would be great tho) and also obviously isnt going to use that trait, because there is actually a support option contesting that trait and its geared to be tankier, with more heal, thus not as much dmg to begin with.

@RedShark.9548 said:Power based DD warrior zerg builds need fast hand to rly function and not feel awkward af, they also kind of need defense for last stand and auto endure pain, to not explode like my brain reading some of these comments.

Lmao.

So no one will bring tactics just to do 50% dmg to barrier users. Except some gimmick warriors that would rly impact the way you play, because gimmicks usually dont work often as intended, sure they might SOMETIMES see insane numbers, but most of the time they are useless compared to other speccs.

Well warriors cunning is one of three slots in a trait line, so it is possible to roll it and Vigorous Shouts still so that wouldn't be much of a gimmick. Bringing 50% vs barrier will help sway a fight, and if there is no barrier you at least garuantee a heavy opening hit with the 25% vs 90% health portion of the trait.