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Upcoming Ranger Changes - Extremely Sad


shadowpass.4236

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

Ranger

In this update, we're making a major change to sword skills in order to better improve their flow during combat. Monarch's Leap, Hornet Sting, and Serpent's Strike are all shuffling around into new slots, which should make the weapon a little easier to understand. We're also including some enhancements for the off-hand dagger, which has been a pretty weak weapon that hasn't kept up with the pace of the game very well. Finally, we're simplifying the greatsword's Counterattack skill and taking some power out of the chain-attack sequence. We hope these changes will make the weapon feel a little smoother while removing some of the frustrating random dodges that happen when fighting against it.

  • Stalker's Strike: Base damage of this attack has been increased by 200%. This attack now deals double damage and inflicts 2 additional poison stacks if it strikes a foe with a movement-impairing condition.
  • Counterattack: Removed the Crippling Throw follow-up skill. This skill no longer automatically uses Counterattack Kick when blocking a foe within the range threshold. Instead, blocking any attack flips the skill to Counterattack Kick for 5 seconds. Increased the number of targets for Counterattack Kick from 1 to 3. Counterattack Kick now evades for its duration and activates faster.
  • Power Stab: This skill no longer evades for its duration. Its name has been changed to Enduring Swing. This skill now grants 15 endurance if it hits.

(Stalker's Strike isn't good because the extra 300 range it got from traiting "Off-Hand Training" was removed.)

Okay... I don't know what you guys were thinking going into this but if these changes go through, you will have singlehandedly removed all of the skill and depth involved with playing greatsword ranger at a high level. Whoever thought of removing Crippling Throw and Power Stab needs to have a serious talk with some top tier ranger mains. Hopefully, these changes didn't come from the same person that completely butchered Druid in PvP.

First of all, the removal of Crippling Throw is extremely disappointing. Here's why:

  • Ranger greatsword has an extremely hard time sticking to targets for a melee weapon. Swoop is pretty clunky for chasing. Hilt Bash will miss on a target running directly away from you. Maul and the auto attacks have a very short range as well.
  • Crippling Throw's cripple gives us the ability to slow our target in order to actually be able to chase and deal damage at the cost of our block. This added strategy and depth to the playstyle.

Second, and I cannot emphasize this enough, DO NOT PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE THE EVADE FROM POWER STAB.

  • The evades on Power Stab are NOT random. There are two regular hits, then the evade. It is the same sequence every single time. There isn't any randomness involved. Good players can (and do) easily interrupt the first two attacks to cancel the chain.
  • The evade has existed since GW2 release. Removing it has disappointed myself and every single ranger I know by a lot. It's extremely disheartening and I'm actually very sad that this is in the patch notes. Out of all of the nerfs over the years, the beatdowns Druid has received, I have never, ever been as unhappy as when I read this change.
  • Even on greatsword, rangers still lose in melee range against almost every other class. If we trade with holos we lose, warriors kill us, mesmer clones with IH will now be able to completely nuke us with condis without the ability to greatsword auto evade them while cleaving. We will also lose the ability to stand in team fights because of how squishy we are. The 15 endurance gain on hit is just rubbing salt in the wounds.

My suggestions (please, I'm begging you, please take them)

  1. Keep Crippling Throw in the game and have this skill flip to counterattack when we block an attack in melee range.
  2. Leave Power Stab alone.
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Yeah man, I don't know. Even when abused to its full potential power stab STILL isn't amazing. Yet when used wisely at a high skill level... it can be an amazing skill that has NEVER felt bad to fight against. This is just a further change to make ranger an accessible class with low skill floor and skill ceiling. Super disappointing. and GS 4 has always been my favorite skill in the game, the throw is so huge.

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@gdubze.6015 said:Skill abuse is still skill abuse no matter how you cut it, same when ele's lightening auto attack skill was abused for faster attacks. NO skill abuse is high tier!

So what about skills that allow you to reach areas a typical jump or teleport cannot? Or skills that can be stowed to bait out dodges like the glint elite? That's functionality outside of intended purpose so by that logic they shouldn't be in the game right? I personally think that as long as it's not an overwhelming advantage yes it is a more skilled level of play. Furthermore why tackle GS chain and not an actually problematic evade abuse like staff/staff?

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@Tycura.1982 said:So what about skills that allow you to reach areas a typical jump or teleport cannot? Or skills that can be stowed to bait out dodges like the glint elite? That's functionality outside of intended purpose so by that logic they shouldn't be in the game right? I personally think that as long as it's not an overwhelming advantage yes it is a more skilled level of play. Furthermore why tackle GS chain and not an actually problematic evade abuse like staff/staff?

Somebody (probably Praqtos) posted a thread about it and that thread got removed for advertising an exploit, so power stab was an exploit after all.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:So what about skills that allow you to reach areas a typical jump or teleport cannot? Or skills that can be stowed to bait out dodges like the glint elite? That's functionality outside of intended purpose so by that logic they shouldn't be in the game right? I personally think that as long as it's not an overwhelming advantage yes it is a more skilled level of play. Furthermore why tackle GS chain and not an actually problematic evade abuse like staff/staff?

Somebody (probably Praqtos) posted a thread about it and that thread got removed for advertising an exploit, so power stab was an exploit after all.

You can do the same thing with every single auto attack in the game including the reflect on thief staff auto.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:You can do the same thing with every single auto attack in the game including the reflect on thief staff auto.

FYI you can mail anet when you find an exploit.

Also, there aren't many "channeled auto attacks" in the game anyway.

It's not an exploit. The majority of auto attacks have cast times you can cancel and recast.

Why are you trying to lower the skill ceiling even further? This stuff has been in the game since release.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:It's not an exploit. The majority of auto attacks have cast times you can cancel and recast.There aren't many autoattacks which has an effect while casting. Any unintended behaviour is a bug, and Anet fixed it.However, they did a bad job with reworking it. Instead of endurance gain, cancelling the evade should just restart the chain.

Why are you trying to lower the skill ceiling even further? This stuff has been in the game since release.Exploiting is not a skill. It's using an unintended behavior for your advantage.Elixir U bug has been around for a long time as well. It's only fixed now though.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:It's not an exploit. The majority of auto attacks have cast times you can cancel and recast.There aren't many autoattacks which has an effect while casting. Any unintended behaviour is a bug, and Anet fixed it.However, they did a bad job with reworking it. Instead of endurance gain, cancelling the evade should just restart the chain.

Why are you trying to lower the skill ceiling even further? This stuff has been in the game since release.Exploiting is not a skill. It's using an unintended behavior for your advantage.Elixir U bug has been around for a long time as well. It's only fixed now though.

Again, skill cancelling has been a thing since release. The evade on the gs auto chain has existed since release.

Are you telling me that now, 7.5 years later, this has all of a sudden become an exploit? :joy:

This is stuff that people have been practicing/playing with and against for YEARS. It has never been an issue. It's still not an issue.

Balancing like this is just ruining the game.

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Gs evade removeal is going to hit my PvE build too.I've a Ranger build that plays heavily into evades as a defensive mechanic so using the Gs was an obvious secondary weapon choice.Without those evades the weapon is now useless to me and I no longer have a backup weapon to swap into.. essentially the build isn't really usable anymore.

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Copy paste from the ranger forum :

Dagger: Great changes.The dagger was so weak. I do not think I will use it because condi ranger in PvE use torch and are still too slow for the sPvP mode. But maybe I will try to make a thief like playstyle.

Sword: I have mixt opinions about this.Hornet sting can be interrupted and moves you while serpent strike locks you in place but is instant. I am not a fan of hiding serpent strike behind a rush. This is losing control. Do you want to go in then dodge? Then do not go in. Do you want to rush out then be locked in place? No. I think the 5s window is a smart decision. One question remains. If I use Monarch leap, then Hornet sting. Is my skill 2 Monarch leap or Serpent strike? My guess is it goes back to Monarch leap.

Greatsword: Great QoL and a big why?Counterattack : Great block change. The only way to do it right now is to disable the lock on option. Hitting multiple targets is awesome! But you can make your allies miss their skills ^^.Crippling Throw: Ok in Pve, but we will miss it in sPvP to stay on target because hilt bash is missing 80% of the time on a moving target.Power Stab: Coming out of nowhere and really bad. I guess in PvE auto attacking on greatsword is the same as mobs auto attack so it is OP? Is it OP in sPvP? No. People rarely can spam the dodge. In fact I never see it in a real fight situation. Ranger greatsword has defense written all over it. Just one huge attack on 2, rest is more utility/defense. Without it how do ranger sustain on point battle? They cannot. Meanwhile you have mirage and thief with high dodge time + high damage/pressure. You have holo and warrior with high block time, regen and high damage. A ranger is already forced to alternate between range and close combat. Now you can remove the close combat. Also getting endurance if it hits means 0 value if you are full endurance and probably a high chance of missing/beeing dodge.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"aymnad.9023" said:Power Stab: Coming out of nowhere and really bad.

It's not out of nowhere. I reported it as a bugged skill alongside some other bugs recently. Though I am not a fan of how they fixed it.Proof:

I'm actually mad that you reported mechanics that have been well-established and in the game since release/HoT release. There have been multiple videos showcasing higher level techniques such as these and you reported them as bugs to get them removed?!

Way to dumb down the game. Let's all brainstorm some ways to lower the skill ceiling even more! Fucking unreal.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"aymnad.9023" said:Power Stab: Coming out of nowhere and really bad.

It's not out of nowhere. I reported it as a bugged skill alongside some other bugs recently. Though I am not a fan of how they fixed it.Proof:

I'm actually mad that you reported mechanics that have been well-established and in the game since release/HoT release. There have been multiple videos showcasing higher level techniques such as these and you reported them as bugs to get them removed?!

Way to dumb down the game. Let's all brainstorm some ways to lower the skill ceiling even more! kitten unreal.

Getting to spam 3 times a full second evade on a skill that has no CD or cost of use is not exactly what we should call "skilled"... That's actually broken given that not even Thief as Daredevil gets to effectively do that with weapons.

Default evades are actually ¾, weapons typically ½ depending on their duration. You can see where it starts not making sense, considering how GS has also burst, leap evade, block and CC. Calling it an unfair fix is quite.. Biased given how good GS is.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"aymnad.9023" said:Power Stab: Coming out of nowhere and really bad.

It's not out of nowhere. I reported it as a bugged skill alongside some other bugs recently. Though I am not a fan of how they fixed it.Proof:
It has never been a bug. You are the only one seeing it as one. As I said this is not something that you can "exploit" in a real fight. It does not come out that often and does not deal damage unlike some other classes abilities.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

Heal signet's aftercast on Chrono and Blurred Frenzy evade were fixed.

I think I don't even have to remind you of Heartseeker and Vault steal.

Exploits aren't skilled.

Way to dumb down the game.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

I'm actually mad that you reported mechanics that have been well-established and in the game since release/HoT release. There have been multiple videos showcasing higher level techniques such as these and you reported them as bugs to get them removed?!

Way to dumb down the game. Let's all brainstorm some ways to lower the skill ceiling even more! kitten unreal.

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