Legendary-tier unique abilities & stat updates — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Legendary-tier unique abilities & stat updates

Kharrus.6015Kharrus.6015 Member ✭✭
edited September 27, 2019 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Hello all!

First a note about myself: I've been an avid fan of this game since i got it in 2013, and have enjoyed all of the content from open world to spvp for years, but it's only recently I've decided to venture into the forums. I haven't really had a larger issue with the game I've been passionate enough to make a post detailing any ideas for solutions i've had, so here's my first. If there's a similar discussion thread about it I might have missed, let me know please. Let's get into it!

So I've seen a great deal of discussion around the purpose of legendary gear, particularly since the introduction of legendary armor a few years ago and the recent introduction of legendary runes. Given the intimidating level of effort and cost that goes into crafting these, it's a very personal feeling of accomplishment to finally get all of those items together in mystic forge and pop out that shiniest of gear.
So an idea I've had for awhile about the weapons I've also expanded to include the armor and runes, and would like to share it since I feel that it would be warranted given the difficulty that goes into acquiring the most elite of gear.

-All Legendary-tier items should be uniquely powerful compared to ascended and exotic-tier items, but not game-breaking.
-All Legendary-tier items should have an attribute rating of 10% higher than ascended gear beneath it.
-All Legendary Weapons should have an individual ability unique to it, which must be self-specific and pve-specific as to avoid unbalancing groups.

For armor, there are two things that need to be looked at, which are stat increases and armor rating.
If we look at the comparison between each tier of gear going down all the way to common, the difference in stat levels at 80 is actually really haphazard, ranging anywhere from a 4% increase to a whopping 25% with stat and defense ratings. So for armor rating where it matters (pve/wvw), having an 8% increase in defense rating would be ideal, given that there is a mere 4% increase in the next tier below with exotic to ascended-tier armor, referencing the defense rating table: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor#Defense_rating

For runes, since there are no ascended-tier runes to mind the gap between exotic and legendary tier, the simplest and most logical option would be to add (7) slot attribute that can be slotted into back items. Even though they don't get a defensive rating, they technically count as part of the armor ensemble as they are a visible part of it. This bonus would simply be the #2 attribute of the rune at the same amount as the next lowest #1 attribute.

Now for weapons, we're going to get into a whole new area of abilities since each of them are acquired in such dramtically different and wide-reaching kinds of achievements and mats to acquire them. As stated above, each legendary weapon should have an inherent ability entirely unique to such a weapon, both involving the lore behind it and type of weapon it actually is. These should be relevant ONLY to the player, so as to not make any one particular legendary weapon useful to something giving buffs to allies or enhancing group gameplay in such a way as to make it essential for the well-to-do commander.

So with that said, I have put considerable thought over the years into what those abilities should look like. I have no idea to the coding difficulty of implementing this, but I at least attempted to make it reasonable.
Note: ALL of these abilities are PVE-only, and transmutation charges in no way change the effects.
For your consideration, all of the legendary weapon unique abilities:

-The Bifrost:
20% chance to summon a friendly water Djinn as a follower to aid you in battle for 60s on critical hit.
(Zomorros is a water Djinn, and it's his staff)

-Bolt:
Deal a chain-lightning attack to up to 3 enemies upon critically striking a foe every every 2s.
(same as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike_(Sigil), but graphic chain-strikes up to 2 more targets)

-The Dreamer
20% chance for any enemy you kill to drop a random holiday/celebration consumable food item.
(It's a polychromatic unicorn bow firing polychromatic unicorns. It at least has to be consistent.)

-The Flameseeker Prophecies
Gain Aegis after delivering a critical strike (with the shield) every 1s. Aegis base cd is 20s.
(armor formula of 8% increase in defensive rating applies here)

-Frenzy:
Gain a 50% increase to gold gains from killing hostile npcs
(Underwater NPC farming isn't very common, but this is a nice touch for the shiniest underwater weapon IMO)

-Frostfang:
Deal 3 seconds of Chill upon critically striking an enemy every 2s
(chill effect scales with expertise. Useful for bar-breaking and reapers.)

-Howler:
Summons a friendly spirit wolf follower to aid you in battle for 60s on critical hit every 1s.
(the point of offhand legendaries having a 1s internal CD for their ability is that it is tied to the weapon skill's cd since they don't have a normal attack. Howl is also unique with being able to summon a small pack of ghost wolves over the duration of combat depending the cooldown of your warhorn skill)

-Incinerator:
-20% chance to inflict Burning for 5s every second.
(Burning scales with expertise. Since daggers have the highest attack speed on average of any weapon, the burning rate on this seems reasonable enough)

-The Juggernaut:
20% chance to summon a friendly chromatic ooze follower to aid you in battle for 60s.
(Do you think you'd be rid of the ooze that easily?)

-Kudzu:
20% chance to heal yourself upon critically striking an enemy every 2s.
(Heal amount is 370 with 0.15x modifier, same as superior sigil of water)

-Kraitkin:
Deal 3 seconds of torment upon critically striking an enemy every 2s.
(Combat scaling for underwater legendaries tends to be a little higher due to underwater combat restrictions)

-Kamohoali'i Kotaki:
Deal 3 seconds of bleeding upon critically striking an enemy every 2s.
(Same reasoning as previously stated)

-Meteorlogicus:
20% chance to deal 10s of vulnerability on a critical hit
(No matter how bad a day you're having, poor weather can always make it worse. Same with vulnerability).

-The Bard:
Gain Vigor after delivering a critical strike (with the focus) every 1s. Vigor base cd is 10s.
(I feel like dancing. Do you feel like dancing?)

-The Moot:
20% chance to inflict Blind for 5s every critical hit.
(Prolonged exposure to Disco may cause blindness and possible fever conditions)

-The Predator:
20% chance to gain Fury for 5s every critical hit.
(I mean, it DOES have a very nice scope)

-Quip:
20% chance to inflict Confusion for 5s every critical hit.
(You build Chaos gun from performing a lot of pranks, so it's fitting it deals confusion)

-Rotgort:
Every time you inflict burning, inflict another stack of burning for 1s.
(Compliments Incinerator, and burn-heavy condi builds get that extra oomph)

-Sunrise:
Deal 10% more damage during daylight.
(does what it says on the tin)

-Twilight:
Deal 10% more damage during the night.
(squints)

-Eternity:
You deal 10% more damage.
(I don't know what else you would have expected)

-Astralaria:
20% chance to gain 2s of Alacrity on a critical hit.
(With all the time making it, you should be able to make up for it during fights)

-The Binding of Ipos:
Every time you inflict torment, inflict another stack of torment for 1s.
(Demonic lore tome is evil, but not evil enough to be used by revenants)

-Chuka and Champawat:
20% chance to deal 5s of bleeding on critical hit.
(Shortbows tend to be almost exclusively condi-focused weapons, so this fits pretty snugly)

-Claw of the Khan-ur:
20% chance to summon a friendly Charr legionnaire follower to aid you in battle for 60s on critical hit.
(As gen 2 legendary can only be made once and are account-bound, it is impossible to make a 2nd claw for yourself to use on the offhand to stack the bonus)

-Eureka:
20% chance to deal 5s of cripple on critical hit.
(I wouldn't want to step on it or the trail it leaves)

-Exordium:
20% chance to gain a random boon for 5s on critical hit.
(Considering its properties, random boon variability made the most sense to me, since inflicting random conditions would introduce some weird stacking issues in combat)

-Flames of War:
Kills empower Flames of War. At 25 stacks, any critical hit done with the torch does 200x damage.
(This is a bit iffy with the multiplier, but the basic idea is that after accruing stacks, you can instantly drop any elite or lower level hostile npc of your choosing)

-The HMS Divinity:
10% chance to knock down your enemy on a critical hit
(It's literally a hand-cannon)

-HOPE:
Kills empower HOPE. At 25 stacks, your next critical attack turns you invulnerable for 4 seconds.
(Being able to time attacks at max stacks introduces a lot of options for boss content, especially in raids. The time you're invulnerable is definitely up for debate, though as it is very, very powerful.)

-Nervermore:
20% chance to inflict 5 seconds of poison on a critical hit.
(As with other condi-crit legendaries, the staff has a wide application range, but sees pretty even usage between power and condition abilities. Poison dealing fits especially well on every class for it, since the classes that use staffs and are condi-focused have skills that also deal poison (necro, mesmer,), while classes that feature power-focused abilities aren't necessarily going to using that particular weapon for dealing primarily condi damage (druid, dardevil, guardian, elementalist).

-Pharus:
20% chance to inflict 5 seconds of blind on a critical hit.
(assists well with all longbow abilities)

-Sharur:
Kills empower Sharur. At 25 stacks, inflict AoE fear for 5s up to 20 targets.
(for real tho; Orr is scary)

-The Shining Blade:
20% chance on critical hit for you to deal a follow-up strike.
(seems a bit underwhelming, but that bonus is for every strike, and so there's a hefty dps increase potential given available sword abilities)

-Shooshadoo:
Gain regeneration after a critical strike (with the shield) ever 1s. Regeneration cd is 10s.
(good little bit of healing for tank and support classes)

-Verdarach:
Each critical hit deals 3s of immobilize with 1s cd, up to 20 targets.
(Being on the business end of this doom tuba is terrifying enough as it is)

-Xiuquatl:
20% chance on kill to summon a friendly snake spirit to aid you in battle for 30s.
(same snake spirit currently summoned by the scepter when you use it)

Please discuss, and let me know what you think of the legendary weapon abilities, especially how they'd balance out in open world.

<1

Comments

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nope.

    Also you could have used the forum's search option to find out that these suggestions have been made many times in the past. You'l find more detailed answers from me there.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    -All Legendary-tier items should be uniquely powerful compared to ascended and exotic-tier items, but not game-breaking.
    -All Legendary-tier items should have an attribute rating of 10% higher than ascended gear beneath it.

    basically the same and no

    -All Legendary Weapons should have an individual ability unique to it, which must be self-specific and pve-specific as to avoid unbalancing groups.

    hell no

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Mushuchalaka.9437Mushuchalaka.9437 Member ✭✭
    edited September 27, 2019

    It's actually something I've thought about too, but Legendaries should not have higher stats than ascended. The unique abilities I agree with, however it should only have those abilities in open world(where it does not matter as much) and not instanced or pvp content.

    This is to dissuade elitism for gear in instanced content and too much of unfair advantage in pvp.

  • Let me add my voice to the emphatic no column for all the reasons already mentioned. Glad you are thinking about the game, keep it up, but this here would be almost as bad an idea as adding a monthly subscription

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    A big and loud NO . This is just unneeded power creep.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the ‘no’ has been really resounding.

    Your ideas sound kinda cool. I love the thought you put into the legendary weapon effects. Had the game started there instead of sigils I think it would have been ok.

    But as many have noted above, it would create too much of a gear treadmill and make legendary weapons almost a requirement.

    There are many that feel that the bump from Exotic to Ascended/Legendary was too much.

    But this game was grounded in the (purported) lack of a gear treadmill.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    I really like OPs ideas on a cosmetic level. I'd love it if my Bolt had more lightning effects on the target on just a cosmetic level. Cosmetically these are cool ideas. But I also don't want to see a damage boost in anyway.

    But I do think it would be nice if there were some really cool and unique utility infusions that could be put on backpieces. Anet was lazy about utility infusions. They could have been much better.

  • "The challenge is that the skill disparity between average players and hardcore players is extreme. We’re talking about ten times damage output. You can’t necessarily put a DPS check that the average player is going to be able to overcome without making the fight entirely trivialized for the hardcore. But we have some tricks up our sleeve that we’re going to be trying." Mike Z, https://pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring

    This game is 7 years old and some people are running around to this day without a clue of how to take advantage of their mechanics or to exploit an enemy mobs weaknesses, new and returning players aside. I can't tell you how many people still just hit skills off cooldown like all those Longbow 4 rangers we hate so much for pushing things out of the way just because the skill is up. I frequently educate players within and without my guild to coach them on how to improve a build or execute certain combinations correctly, or even understand what skills qualify as CC for the purposes of taking down break bars. However, when their understanding on gearing, skills, stats, and general game mechanics IS improved, they find that they're much more effective now that they're not playing in a manner that doesn't respect the combat learning curve. People have successfully done raids in blues for goodness sake, lets not say that the only reason they could do it was because of their gear. That said:

    YES

    While everyone is right that there should not be any more needless power creep, they're wrong to assume that space can't be provided to grow into it or that keeping with the GW2 2012 philosophy without changing is the only way forward. That's called stagnation.

    Also, Legendaries should be legendarily powerful, not simply offer legendary "service" in the form of the stat swap. Yes it's powerful in its own right, but not in any way that makes them desirable to those who don't play many builds.

    The game has long been too easy and it struggles with a reason to merit even ascended quality items. " Whoa whoa! Why would you allow for more power creep if it's already so easy?!" This ignores the possibility for Anet to buff enemies by making them:

    1. Hit harder/faster - take advantage of the increased armor values for ascended & the OP's proposed legendary armor adjustments
    2. Be more difficult to damage (not simply armor or health increases) - increase the value of ascended & legendary weapons
      2a. Have to be struck by certain conditions/effects/positional to exploit their vulnerabilities - Ex: Giant beetles can only be hit from the front, it makes them unique to deal with. People actually have to be put in front of its charge animation and dodge/block when they notice it or be launched. It demands you pay attention.
    3. Introduce damage types like existed in GW1 beyond simply direct physical damage - this has so many more implications and I wish they never shied away from it in the first place.
    4. Have unique mechanics - Probably my most desired change. More mobs need to have different attack patterns, methods of engagement/disengaging, and more frequent use of their alleged "powers". Why do spiders only poison on their big charge poison spray and not also with every other bite? Why do bears and other animals with fangs and claws not inflict bleeding with every other strike? Jacarandas, annoying as they are, at least have multiple ways to interact with the player that provokes interrupts or dodging out of the AoE of their lightning. Even the Canids in Elona are a nice change of for damage and escapability.

    I understand there would necessarily be issues in PvP and WvW scenarios for balance reasons, but that's gonna have to be shelved for me.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Nope.

    Legendary gear should just be unique skins, no tier advantage or quality of life advantage. The quality of life stuff that Legendaries have should be added to Ascended gear, but that will never happen.

  • Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭

    Here come the legendary meta builds and the full legendary gear requirements for entering raids... oh boy

    I'm Hunter, he/him/they
    Check out my Tumblr for more GW2 content if you want: http://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/
    Character infos: https://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/characters

  • @Danikat.8537 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    "The challenge is that the skill disparity between average players and hardcore players is extreme. We’re talking about ten times damage output. You can’t necessarily put a DPS check that the average player is going to be able to overcome without making the fight entirely trivialized for the hardcore. But we have some tricks up our sleeve that we’re going to be trying." Mike Z, https://pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring

    This game is 7 years old and some people are running around to this day without a clue of how to take advantage of their mechanics or to exploit an enemy mobs weaknesses, new and returning players aside. I can't tell you how many people still just hit skills off cooldown like all those Longbow 4 rangers we hate so much for pushing things out of the way just because the skill is up. I frequently educate players within and without my guild to coach them on how to improve a build or execute certain combinations correctly, or even understand what skills qualify as CC for the purposes of taking down break bars. However, when their understanding on gearing, skills, stats, and general game mechanics IS improved, they find that they're much more effective now that they're not playing in a manner that doesn't respect the combat learning curve. People have successfully done raids in blues for goodness sake, lets not say that the only reason they could do it was because of their gear. That said:

    YES

    While everyone is right that there should not be any more needless power creep, they're wrong to assume that space can't be provided to grow into it or that keeping with the GW2 2012 philosophy without changing is the only way forward. That's called stagnation.

    Also, Legendaries should be legendarily powerful, not simply offer legendary "service" in the form of the stat swap. Yes it's powerful in its own right, but not in any way that makes them desirable to those who don't play many builds.

    The game has long been too easy and it struggles with a reason to merit even ascended quality items. " Whoa whoa! Why would you allow for more power creep if it's already so easy?!" This ignores the possibility for Anet to buff enemies by making them:

    1. Hit harder/faster - take advantage of the increased armor values for ascended & the OP's proposed legendary armor adjustments
    2. Be more difficult to damage (not simply armor or health increases) - increase the value of ascended & legendary weapons
      2a. Have to be struck by certain conditions/effects/positional to exploit their vulnerabilities - Ex: Giant beetles can only be hit from the front, it makes them unique to deal with. People actually have to be put in front of its charge animation and dodge/block when they notice it or be launched. It demands you pay attention.
    3. Introduce damage types like existed in GW1 beyond simply direct physical damage - this has so many more implications and I wish they never shied away from it in the first place.
    4. Have unique mechanics - Probably my most desired change. More mobs need to have different attack patterns, methods of engagement/disengaging, and more frequent use of their alleged "powers". Why do spiders only poison on their big charge poison spray and not also with every other bite? Why do bears and other animals with fangs and claws not inflict bleeding with every other strike? Jacarandas, annoying as they are, at least have multiple ways to interact with the player that provokes interrupts or dodging out of the AoE of their lightning. Even the Canids in Elona are a nice change of for damage and escapability.

    I understand there would necessarily be issues in PvP and WvW scenarios for balance reasons, but that's gonna have to be shelved for me.

    So your solution to the fact that some people already struggle with the game is to not only make legendaries more powerful so players will feel they have to have them, but also balance everything for players with legendary equipment, so it's even harder for those without it? That just makes the problem even worse.

    There's a fundamental disconnect with what I'm saying and what you chose to take out of it. There's more going on in this one topic than simply "the gear". This touches everything from the GW2 reward structure and what it focuses upon, to tutorials for new players, player learning/growth resources and their availability, and finally what Anet considers end-game content. And for the record, I would like to see my list changes for the game as it currently exists, completely aside from the proposed changes from the OP.

    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    People struggling with the game wasn't even a topic expanded on until I brought it up. The game doesn't take any significant steps towards showing new players what to expect from their professions or from combat in general. It is first the game's responsibility to show what is possible and it then becomes the players responsibility to be curious and take initiative. If the player chooses not to do so, so be it.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • No, obviously no.

    Also - No.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

  • FrigginPaco.4178FrigginPaco.4178 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2019

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    Yes, I necessarily realize that they're contrary to their core philosophy - I'm specifically saying that clinging to the same philosophy for as long as they have may have had unintended consequences. The gear ceiling in GW2 is easy to hit. Even if you just play PvE and all of its faceroll content you can get them with ease. If you play the other game modes in addition, then it's 2-3 fold easier since you can use all of those mode-specific currencies to acquire ascended.

    I have 18 characters, each with a full set of ascended and 2-3 of them have an extra set sitting in their inventory. Some have legendary weapons. But none have legendary armor. I stopped at 57ish legendary insights and am always on the fence about whether or not I want to continue on them since all my ascended is just as good. Mystic forge stat swapping is barely an inconvenience if I want to do a different build. At this point I'd only want them for their cosmetics, but the more I think about it I lose more and more interest in them.

    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

    If people are worried about bullying and absurd gear checks, I don't see that as being relevant here. If anything, people post trophies from raid bosses as "kill proof" to show them they've done the bosses before. As I mentioned, raids can be done in gear as common as blues if you're worried that community standards will fall, that's on the community for deciding to go a certain way.


    Let me level with you. I'm just a player sitting at the edge of every release because that's about all I can do. Between new content in PvE and whatever farming I do I'm just in WvW or PvP. But I play everything. Every game mode, and let me just say there's not a whole lot to work on, so I welcome a goal. I welcome something to chase after. Most of the things I see right now don't move me in any capacity. So I'm just here waiting for new things to do, new content, new anything really. I don't see much in the way of longterms goals that mean anything and that's my problem here - in addition with the game simply being too easy.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    Yes, I necessarily realize that they're contrary to their core philosophy - I'm specifically saying that clinging to the same philosophy for as long as they have may have had unintended consequences. The gear ceiling in GW2 is easy to hit. Even if you just play PvE and all of its faceroll content you can get them with ease. If you play the other game modes in addition, then it's 2-3 fold easier since you can use all of those mode-specific currencies to acquire ascended.

    I have 18 characters, each with a full set of ascended and 2-3 of them have an extra set sitting in their inventory. Some have legendary weapons. But none have legendary armor. I stopped at 57ish legendary insights and am always on the fence about whether or not I want to continue on them since all my ascended is just as good. Mystic forge stat swapping is barely an inconvenience if I want to do a different build. At this point I'd only want them for their cosmetics, but the more I think about it I lose more and more interest in them.

    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

    If people are worried about bullying and absurd gear checks, I don't see that as being relevant here. If anything, people post trophies from raid bosses as "kill proof" to show them they've done the bosses before. As I mentioned, raids can be done in gear as common as blues if you're worried that community standards will fall, that's on the community for deciding to go a certain way.


    Let me level with you. I'm just a player sitting at the edge of every release because that's about all I can do. Between new content in PvE and whatever farming I do I'm just in WvW or PvP. But I play everything. Every game mode, and let me just say there's not a whole lot to work on, so I welcome a goal. I welcome something to chase after. Most of the things I see right now don't move me in any capacity. So I'm just here waiting for new things to do, new content, new anything really. I don't see much in the way of longterms goals that mean anything and that's my problem here - in addition with the game simply being too easy.

    1. I don't raid. I don't have the attention span to really learn a rotation. I should mention that I main an Elementalist. I'm just fine with not getting legendary armor due to this as I believe that raids should have some reward that is appropriately better given their difficulty compared to other content in the game. I also didn't bring up raids at all, so not sure why you're making it a point to mention to me that they can be done in blues like I missed it the first time.
    2. I have no problems getting into groups when I choose to do so. I stay out of the ones that look like they are looking for the pros or are trying to speedrun. And ask if it's not clear. And I start my own if I can't find one and don't want to wait for someone to start one. I think people PUGing have every right to have requirements for who joins them. Even if they are ridiculous and super specific. I don't think there is a huge bullying problem with PUG's.
    3. I have come to realize that in most games that don't have a definite "win" point that I need a long term goal to work on while I play what I want or directly to get it. This goal needs to not be something that's part of the meta as I like to run meta as it increases the pool of groups I can join. I like that I can decide that I want to work towards gearing up a new character in ascended without feeling like I'm hurting the character I'm getting the legendary gear for.
    4. I do get that you need a goal that's not just a small carrot, but it would turn me off of the game if there were no long term small carrot goals like what legendary gear currently is.

    I do hope you find a goal that works for you, but hope that you also realize that for many of us that this is the only game out there where the long term goals are cosmetic and QoL based and not with it being fully gearing out our characters in max tier gear.

  • @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    Yes, I necessarily realize that they're contrary to their core philosophy - I'm specifically saying that clinging to the same philosophy for as long as they have may have had unintended consequences. The gear ceiling in GW2 is easy to hit. Even if you just play PvE and all of its faceroll content you can get them with ease. If you play the other game modes in addition, then it's 2-3 fold easier since you can use all of those mode-specific currencies to acquire ascended.

    I have 18 characters, each with a full set of ascended and 2-3 of them have an extra set sitting in their inventory. Some have legendary weapons. But none have legendary armor. I stopped at 57ish legendary insights and am always on the fence about whether or not I want to continue on them since all my ascended is just as good. Mystic forge stat swapping is barely an inconvenience if I want to do a different build. At this point I'd only want them for their cosmetics, but the more I think about it I lose more and more interest in them.

    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

    If people are worried about bullying and absurd gear checks, I don't see that as being relevant here. If anything, people post trophies from raid bosses as "kill proof" to show them they've done the bosses before. As I mentioned, raids can be done in gear as common as blues if you're worried that community standards will fall, that's on the community for deciding to go a certain way.


    Let me level with you. I'm just a player sitting at the edge of every release because that's about all I can do. Between new content in PvE and whatever farming I do I'm just in WvW or PvP. But I play everything. Every game mode, and let me just say there's not a whole lot to work on, so I welcome a goal. I welcome something to chase after. Most of the things I see right now don't move me in any capacity. So I'm just here waiting for new things to do, new content, new anything really. I don't see much in the way of longterms goals that mean anything and that's my problem here - in addition with the game simply being too easy.

    1. I don't raid. I don't have the attention span to really learn a rotation. I should mention that I main an Elementalist. I'm just fine with not getting legendary armor due to this as I believe that raids should have some reward that is appropriately better given their difficulty compared to other content in the game. I also didn't bring up raids at all, so not sure why you're making it a point to mention to me that they can be done in blues like I missed it the first time.

    My point for bringing up raids in the specific way that I did was solely to showcase how completely trivial the gear tiering in this game is in the first place. I understand you don't raid, but I also haven't set foot there in about a 6 months. It's less about the content of raids and more about how frustratingly unimpactful gear is anyway. And a change like OP's change would be exciting. I understand it would necessarily raise a bar, but it's something I'd be interested in.

    1. I have no problems getting into groups when I choose to do so. I stay out of the ones that look like they are looking for the pros or are trying to speedrun. And ask if it's not clear. And I start my own if I can't find one and don't want to wait for someone to start one. I think people PUGing have every right to have requirements for who joins them. Even if they are ridiculous and super specific. I don't think there is a huge bullying problem with PUG's.

    Precisely. Guild Wars 2 is typically free from those same elitist nonsense and I don't understand someone's argument that it would change just because of the OP's idea.

    1. I have come to realize that in most games that don't have a definite "win" point that I need a long term goal to work on while I play what I want or directly to get it. This goal needs to not be something that's part of the meta as I like to run meta as it increases the pool of groups I can join. I like that I can decide that I want to work towards gearing up a new character in ascended without feeling like I'm hurting the character I'm getting the legendary gear for.

    And I'm glad that you've found something that works for you! I just don't think the idea here forces anyone to do something.

    1. I do get that you need a goal that's not just a small carrot, but it would turn me off of the game if there were no long term small carrot goals like what legendary gear currently is.

    I simply don't understand why the carrot would necessarily disappear in this scenario. If anything it's just an... improved carrot? It's the same one you were going for before, but just better.

    I do hope you find a goal that works for you, but hope that you also realize that for many of us that this is the only game out there where the long term goals are cosmetic and QoL based and not with it being fully gearing out our characters in max tier gear.

    And I just hope to point out that for a significant amount of people, my mentality around this and the other points I brought up are of significant concern. Cosmetics will simply come to me over the course of my, or anyone else's, playtime. To me, I'm in it for the cosmetic, the efficacy, the everything. There is no need to distinguish between them to me.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    It sounds to me like you want this game to be something it's not nor was it ever advertised as such. There are plenty of other MMOs that have gear treadmills, including WoW classic which was just released.

  • FrigginPaco.4178FrigginPaco.4178 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2019

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    It sounds to me like you want this game to be something it's not nor was it ever advertised as such. There are plenty of other MMOs that have gear treadmills, including WoW classic which was just released.

    For a time I did briefly try others, but ultimately, no other MMO has the combat mechanics that GW2 offers. It's what I enjoy most about this game aside from the expanding universe and story. And before you or anyone else goes any further on this point, I have no interest in any other MMO that currently exists. For a long time I was happy with the GW2 status quo and I'm just tired of not having any real reason to pursue a goal(s) for so long. I'm basically just waiting for this Saga to roll out and hopefully hear news of an expack sometime in 2021.

    And lastly, why do my desires have to take any more of a backseat than the people saying no? I'm very invested into where GW2 goes in the future, but I feel like it has room to grow in certain dimensions and other people probably feel it can grow in other ways.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    Yes, I necessarily realize that they're contrary to their core philosophy - I'm specifically saying that clinging to the same philosophy for as long as they have may have had unintended consequences. The gear ceiling in GW2 is easy to hit. Even if you just play PvE and all of its faceroll content you can get them with ease. If you play the other game modes in addition, then it's 2-3 fold easier since you can use all of those mode-specific currencies to acquire ascended.

    I have 18 characters, each with a full set of ascended and 2-3 of them have an extra set sitting in their inventory. Some have legendary weapons. But none have legendary armor. I stopped at 57ish legendary insights and am always on the fence about whether or not I want to continue on them since all my ascended is just as good. Mystic forge stat swapping is barely an inconvenience if I want to do a different build. At this point I'd only want them for their cosmetics, but the more I think about it I lose more and more interest in them.

    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

    If people are worried about bullying and absurd gear checks, I don't see that as being relevant here. If anything, people post trophies from raid bosses as "kill proof" to show them they've done the bosses before. As I mentioned, raids can be done in gear as common as blues if you're worried that community standards will fall, that's on the community for deciding to go a certain way.


    Let me level with you. I'm just a player sitting at the edge of every release because that's about all I can do. Between new content in PvE and whatever farming I do I'm just in WvW or PvP. But I play everything. Every game mode, and let me just say there's not a whole lot to work on, so I welcome a goal. I welcome something to chase after. Most of the things I see right now don't move me in any capacity. So I'm just here waiting for new things to do, new content, new anything really. I don't see much in the way of longterms goals that mean anything and that's my problem here - in addition with the game simply being too easy.

    1. I don't raid. I don't have the attention span to really learn a rotation. I should mention that I main an Elementalist. I'm just fine with not getting legendary armor due to this as I believe that raids should have some reward that is appropriately better given their difficulty compared to other content in the game. I also didn't bring up raids at all, so not sure why you're making it a point to mention to me that they can be done in blues like I missed it the first time.

    My point for bringing up raids in the specific way that I did was solely to showcase how completely trivial the gear tiering in this game is in the first place. I understand you don't raid, but I also haven't set foot there in about a 6 months. It's less about the content of raids and more about how frustratingly unimpactful gear is anyway. And a change like OP's change would be exciting. I understand it would necessarily raise a bar, but it's something I'd be interested in.

    1. I have no problems getting into groups when I choose to do so. I stay out of the ones that look like they are looking for the pros or are trying to speedrun. And ask if it's not clear. And I start my own if I can't find one and don't want to wait for someone to start one. I think people PUGing have every right to have requirements for who joins them. Even if they are ridiculous and super specific. I don't think there is a huge bullying problem with PUG's.

    Precisely. Guild Wars 2 is typically free from those same elitist nonsense and I don't understand someone's argument that it would change just because of the OP's idea.

    1. I have come to realize that in most games that don't have a definite "win" point that I need a long term goal to work on while I play what I want or directly to get it. This goal needs to not be something that's part of the meta as I like to run meta as it increases the pool of groups I can join. I like that I can decide that I want to work towards gearing up a new character in ascended without feeling like I'm hurting the character I'm getting the legendary gear for.

    And I'm glad that you've found something that works for you! I just don't think the idea here forces anyone to do something.

    1. I do get that you need a goal that's not just a small carrot, but it would turn me off of the game if there were no long term small carrot goals like what legendary gear currently is.

    I simply don't understand why the carrot would necessarily disappear in this scenario. If anything it's just an... improved carrot? It's the same one you were going for before, but just better.

    I do hope you find a goal that works for you, but hope that you also realize that for many of us that this is the only game out there where the long term goals are cosmetic and QoL based and not with it being fully gearing out our characters in max tier gear.

    And I just hope to point out that for a significant amount of people, my mentality around this and the other points I brought up are of significant concern. Cosmetics will simply come to me over the course of my, or anyone else's, playtime. To me, I'm in it for the cosmetic, the efficacy, the everything. There is no need to distinguish between them to me.

    I don't want my long term goal to be gear that is the best in the game stat wise. Making the carrot the best gear in the game stat wise just turns me off. I don't want it to take months if not years to fully gear out a single character in the best gear stat wise. I may one day decide that I do want to put forth the time and effort into learning rotations to try raids. I get that they can be in blues, but that's not something someone learning should try. Someone still mastering the content should play in the best stat gear until it's easy and then go down to the next lowest tier and so forth. I don't want to be years away from being able to do that including time playing the content that I would need to do in order to get that way. Especially if they started designing the game overall around that being top tier.

    I say months/years because I do not buy my legendary gear or any precursors and I'm casual. I buy my way past the steps that require WvW and PvP that can be bought - Memories of Battle, Shards of Glory (the PvP equivalent to Memories of Battle if that's not their name). To get the Gift of Battle I do now have to go in and do WvW and I do the PvE dailies - Big Spender, Capture a Shrine, etc that have the lowest chances of me finding anyone - so I don't tend to do Vet slayer. And I did actually map complete in WvW a couple of times back when that was required to get Gift of Exploration. I have made 1 legendary weapon. I've been playing since launch. I'm working on my second currently.

  • Aenaos.8160Aenaos.8160 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2019

    Legendary weapon awakening.
    No numbers differentiation from Ascended.
    No additional materials or gold needed.
    A unique combat encounter per weapon,of advanced difficulty,that the player has to overcome while using the Legendary weapon and that weapon only.No weapon swap available during that fight.
    Unlocks a unique per Legendary weapon ability that ties to the theme/lore.The ability has a long cooldown,at least 240 sec.Available in PvE and WvW.Locked in sPvP.
    Unlocks an additional sigil slot.Can't attach any of the existing sigils.Create a new set of sigils that can occupy only this slot.No flat damage/duration/stat modifiers.Only utility type of effects with caution to add flavour but not extra cheese.

  • @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    Yes, I necessarily realize that they're contrary to their core philosophy - I'm specifically saying that clinging to the same philosophy for as long as they have may have had unintended consequences. The gear ceiling in GW2 is easy to hit. Even if you just play PvE and all of its faceroll content you can get them with ease. If you play the other game modes in addition, then it's 2-3 fold easier since you can use all of those mode-specific currencies to acquire ascended.

    I have 18 characters, each with a full set of ascended and 2-3 of them have an extra set sitting in their inventory. Some have legendary weapons. But none have legendary armor. I stopped at 57ish legendary insights and am always on the fence about whether or not I want to continue on them since all my ascended is just as good. Mystic forge stat swapping is barely an inconvenience if I want to do a different build. At this point I'd only want them for their cosmetics, but the more I think about it I lose more and more interest in them.

    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

    If people are worried about bullying and absurd gear checks, I don't see that as being relevant here. If anything, people post trophies from raid bosses as "kill proof" to show them they've done the bosses before. As I mentioned, raids can be done in gear as common as blues if you're worried that community standards will fall, that's on the community for deciding to go a certain way.


    Let me level with you. I'm just a player sitting at the edge of every release because that's about all I can do. Between new content in PvE and whatever farming I do I'm just in WvW or PvP. But I play everything. Every game mode, and let me just say there's not a whole lot to work on, so I welcome a goal. I welcome something to chase after. Most of the things I see right now don't move me in any capacity. So I'm just here waiting for new things to do, new content, new anything really. I don't see much in the way of longterms goals that mean anything and that's my problem here - in addition with the game simply being too easy.

    1. I don't raid. I don't have the attention span to really learn a rotation. I should mention that I main an Elementalist. I'm just fine with not getting legendary armor due to this as I believe that raids should have some reward that is appropriately better given their difficulty compared to other content in the game. I also didn't bring up raids at all, so not sure why you're making it a point to mention to me that they can be done in blues like I missed it the first time.

    My point for bringing up raids in the specific way that I did was solely to showcase how completely trivial the gear tiering in this game is in the first place. I understand you don't raid, but I also haven't set foot there in about a 6 months. It's less about the content of raids and more about how frustratingly unimpactful gear is anyway. And a change like OP's change would be exciting. I understand it would necessarily raise a bar, but it's something I'd be interested in.

    1. I have no problems getting into groups when I choose to do so. I stay out of the ones that look like they are looking for the pros or are trying to speedrun. And ask if it's not clear. And I start my own if I can't find one and don't want to wait for someone to start one. I think people PUGing have every right to have requirements for who joins them. Even if they are ridiculous and super specific. I don't think there is a huge bullying problem with PUG's.

    Precisely. Guild Wars 2 is typically free from those same elitist nonsense and I don't understand someone's argument that it would change just because of the OP's idea.

    1. I have come to realize that in most games that don't have a definite "win" point that I need a long term goal to work on while I play what I want or directly to get it. This goal needs to not be something that's part of the meta as I like to run meta as it increases the pool of groups I can join. I like that I can decide that I want to work towards gearing up a new character in ascended without feeling like I'm hurting the character I'm getting the legendary gear for.

    And I'm glad that you've found something that works for you! I just don't think the idea here forces anyone to do something.

    1. I do get that you need a goal that's not just a small carrot, but it would turn me off of the game if there were no long term small carrot goals like what legendary gear currently is.

    I simply don't understand why the carrot would necessarily disappear in this scenario. If anything it's just an... improved carrot? It's the same one you were going for before, but just better.

    I do hope you find a goal that works for you, but hope that you also realize that for many of us that this is the only game out there where the long term goals are cosmetic and QoL based and not with it being fully gearing out our characters in max tier gear.

    And I just hope to point out that for a significant amount of people, my mentality around this and the other points I brought up are of significant concern. Cosmetics will simply come to me over the course of my, or anyone else's, playtime. To me, I'm in it for the cosmetic, the efficacy, the everything. There is no need to distinguish between them to me.

    I don't want my long term goal to be gear that is the best in the game stat wise. Making the carrot the best gear in the game stat wise just turns me off. I don't want it to take months if not years to fully gear out a single character in the best gear stat wise. I may one day decide that I do want to put forth the time and effort into learning rotations to try raids. I get that they can be in blues, but that's not something someone learning should try. Someone still mastering the content should play in the best stat gear until it's easy and then go down to the next lowest tier and so forth. I don't want to be years away from being able to do that including time playing the content that I would need to do in order to get that way. Especially if they started designing the game overall around that being top tier.

    I say months/years because I do not buy my legendary gear or any precursors and I'm casual. I buy my way past the steps that require WvW and PvP that can be bought - Memories of Battle, Shards of Glory (the PvP equivalent to Memories of Battle if that's not their name). To get the Gift of Battle I do now have to go in and do WvW and I do the PvE dailies - Big Spender, Capture a Shrine, etc that have the lowest chances of me finding anyone - so I don't tend to do Vet slayer. And I did actually map complete in WvW a couple of times back when that was required to get Gift of Exploration. I have made 1 legendary weapon. I've been playing since launch. I'm working on my second currently.

    So, if the recommendation for newer players to raids is ascended/exotic quality gear, there's very much a place for gear as it pads your chances to win the encounter, this much we agree on. If it has this kind of effect, one can assume that OP's idea would help even further.

    Just so I know, can you define "casual" in the way you see it? I've been around since launch as well and if it helps at all, I've got somewhere in the vicinity of 5.6 k hours played. However, I would hazard a guess that as another longtime player you know a great deal of the mechanics in the game and probably don't struggle with combat to the capacity I described in a previous post.

    Do you go into WvW by yourself though? It's often much easier to get the other dailies with even 1 more person. I'd rather not digress much on this point, but I'm just curious.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    It sounds to me like you want this game to be something it's not nor was it ever advertised as such. There are plenty of other MMOs that have gear treadmills, including WoW classic which was just released.

    For a time I did briefly try others, but ultimately, no other MMO has the combat mechanics that GW2 offers. It's what I enjoy most about this game aside from the expanding universe and story. And before you or anyone else goes any further on this point, I have no interest in any other MMO that currently exists. For a long time I was happy with the GW2 status quo and I'm just tired of not having any real reason to pursue a goal(s) for so long. I'm basically just waiting for this Saga to roll out and hopefully hear news of an expack sometime in 2021.

    And lastly, why do my desires have to take any more of a backseat than the people saying no? I'm very invested into where GW2 goes in the future, but I feel like it has room to grow in certain dimensions and other people probably feel it can grow in other ways.

    If you are very invested into GW2 then you would understand that adding more gear grind would hurt GW2's future. The Ascended gear backlash was bad enough. Imagine the backlash if they did this. It would absolutely destroy what's left of WvW.

  • @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    It sounds to me like you want this game to be something it's not nor was it ever advertised as such. There are plenty of other MMOs that have gear treadmills, including WoW classic which was just released.

    For a time I did briefly try others, but ultimately, no other MMO has the combat mechanics that GW2 offers. It's what I enjoy most about this game aside from the expanding universe and story. And before you or anyone else goes any further on this point, I have no interest in any other MMO that currently exists. For a long time I was happy with the GW2 status quo and I'm just tired of not having any real reason to pursue a goal(s) for so long. I'm basically just waiting for this Saga to roll out and hopefully hear news of an expack sometime in 2021.

    And lastly, why do my desires have to take any more of a backseat than the people saying no? I'm very invested into where GW2 goes in the future, but I feel like it has room to grow in certain dimensions and other people probably feel it can grow in other ways.

    If you are very invested into GW2 then you would understand that adding more gear grind would hurt GW2's future. The Ascended gear backlash was bad enough. Imagine the backlash if they did this. It would absolutely destroy what's left of WvW.

    To me, the keyword here is "was"... I remember it, and yet it seems more like a "nontraversy" to me the further away we get from it. Also it's important to reiterate that the OP's values and effects are all hypothetical and overly strong. I'd rather not go down balancing things in a hypothetical such as this, but I admire the concept nonetheless. On that note, WvW would necessarily have its own.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    Yes, I necessarily realize that they're contrary to their core philosophy - I'm specifically saying that clinging to the same philosophy for as long as they have may have had unintended consequences. The gear ceiling in GW2 is easy to hit. Even if you just play PvE and all of its faceroll content you can get them with ease. If you play the other game modes in addition, then it's 2-3 fold easier since you can use all of those mode-specific currencies to acquire ascended.

    I have 18 characters, each with a full set of ascended and 2-3 of them have an extra set sitting in their inventory. Some have legendary weapons. But none have legendary armor. I stopped at 57ish legendary insights and am always on the fence about whether or not I want to continue on them since all my ascended is just as good. Mystic forge stat swapping is barely an inconvenience if I want to do a different build. At this point I'd only want them for their cosmetics, but the more I think about it I lose more and more interest in them.

    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

    If people are worried about bullying and absurd gear checks, I don't see that as being relevant here. If anything, people post trophies from raid bosses as "kill proof" to show them they've done the bosses before. As I mentioned, raids can be done in gear as common as blues if you're worried that community standards will fall, that's on the community for deciding to go a certain way.


    Let me level with you. I'm just a player sitting at the edge of every release because that's about all I can do. Between new content in PvE and whatever farming I do I'm just in WvW or PvP. But I play everything. Every game mode, and let me just say there's not a whole lot to work on, so I welcome a goal. I welcome something to chase after. Most of the things I see right now don't move me in any capacity. So I'm just here waiting for new things to do, new content, new anything really. I don't see much in the way of longterms goals that mean anything and that's my problem here - in addition with the game simply being too easy.

    1. I don't raid. I don't have the attention span to really learn a rotation. I should mention that I main an Elementalist. I'm just fine with not getting legendary armor due to this as I believe that raids should have some reward that is appropriately better given their difficulty compared to other content in the game. I also didn't bring up raids at all, so not sure why you're making it a point to mention to me that they can be done in blues like I missed it the first time.

    My point for bringing up raids in the specific way that I did was solely to showcase how completely trivial the gear tiering in this game is in the first place. I understand you don't raid, but I also haven't set foot there in about a 6 months. It's less about the content of raids and more about how frustratingly unimpactful gear is anyway. And a change like OP's change would be exciting. I understand it would necessarily raise a bar, but it's something I'd be interested in.

    1. I have no problems getting into groups when I choose to do so. I stay out of the ones that look like they are looking for the pros or are trying to speedrun. And ask if it's not clear. And I start my own if I can't find one and don't want to wait for someone to start one. I think people PUGing have every right to have requirements for who joins them. Even if they are ridiculous and super specific. I don't think there is a huge bullying problem with PUG's.

    Precisely. Guild Wars 2 is typically free from those same elitist nonsense and I don't understand someone's argument that it would change just because of the OP's idea.

    1. I have come to realize that in most games that don't have a definite "win" point that I need a long term goal to work on while I play what I want or directly to get it. This goal needs to not be something that's part of the meta as I like to run meta as it increases the pool of groups I can join. I like that I can decide that I want to work towards gearing up a new character in ascended without feeling like I'm hurting the character I'm getting the legendary gear for.

    And I'm glad that you've found something that works for you! I just don't think the idea here forces anyone to do something.

    1. I do get that you need a goal that's not just a small carrot, but it would turn me off of the game if there were no long term small carrot goals like what legendary gear currently is.

    I simply don't understand why the carrot would necessarily disappear in this scenario. If anything it's just an... improved carrot? It's the same one you were going for before, but just better.

    I do hope you find a goal that works for you, but hope that you also realize that for many of us that this is the only game out there where the long term goals are cosmetic and QoL based and not with it being fully gearing out our characters in max tier gear.

    And I just hope to point out that for a significant amount of people, my mentality around this and the other points I brought up are of significant concern. Cosmetics will simply come to me over the course of my, or anyone else's, playtime. To me, I'm in it for the cosmetic, the efficacy, the everything. There is no need to distinguish between them to me.

    I don't want my long term goal to be gear that is the best in the game stat wise. Making the carrot the best gear in the game stat wise just turns me off. I don't want it to take months if not years to fully gear out a single character in the best gear stat wise. I may one day decide that I do want to put forth the time and effort into learning rotations to try raids. I get that they can be in blues, but that's not something someone learning should try. Someone still mastering the content should play in the best stat gear until it's easy and then go down to the next lowest tier and so forth. I don't want to be years away from being able to do that including time playing the content that I would need to do in order to get that way. Especially if they started designing the game overall around that being top tier.

    I say months/years because I do not buy my legendary gear or any precursors and I'm casual. I buy my way past the steps that require WvW and PvP that can be bought - Memories of Battle, Shards of Glory (the PvP equivalent to Memories of Battle if that's not their name). To get the Gift of Battle I do now have to go in and do WvW and I do the PvE dailies - Big Spender, Capture a Shrine, etc that have the lowest chances of me finding anyone - so I don't tend to do Vet slayer. And I did actually map complete in WvW a couple of times back when that was required to get Gift of Exploration. I have made 1 legendary weapon. I've been playing since launch. I'm working on my second currently.

    So, if the recommendation for newer players to raids is ascended/exotic quality gear, there's very much a place for gear as it pads your chances to win the encounter, this much we agree on. If it has this kind of effect, one can assume that OP's idea would help even further.

    Just so I know, can you define "casual" in the way you see it? I've been around since launch as well and if it helps at all, I've got somewhere in the vicinity of 5.6 k hours played. However, I would hazard a guess that as another longtime player you know a great deal of the mechanics in the game and probably don't struggle with combat to the capacity I described in a previous post.

    Do you go into WvW by yourself though? It's often much easier to get the other dailies with even 1 more person. I'd rather not digress much on this point, but I'm just curious.

    Casual as in I only have 1,647 hours played over the last 7 years. I'll play for several hours a day for a few days/weeks. Then go months without playing the game at all except maybe to log in to unlock the living story chapter or collect my daily login reward. I know of the mechanics. I don't necessarily know how to execute it. Like I know breaking break bars would have made Eater of Souls so much easier. Couldn't do it the one time I did it back before they nerfed him, so had to kill him the long way as I couldn't prevent his attacks. Haven't played that mission since. Sad they nerfed him, though. I won't get as huge of a rush if I one day manage to beat him easily because part of me will be like "it's just because they nerfed him, not because you got better".

    I mostly run around core Tyria doing map completion or running characters through the personal story, starting with the core game story. Unfortunately, the open world and core game story doesn't do much if anything to teach mechanics. And by the time a new player has reached HoT content, bad habits have been set. It's why HoT faced such a backlash because suddenly you had to use game mechanics in open world. They do need to do a better job of teaching mechanics. It would let them increase the difficulty without facing the same backlash. Which would likely help at least to some degree with the lack of goals if the difficulty was allowed to increase enough over the course of the missions to where it was actually difficult for you but not impossible.

    I go into WvW alone. My friends that I joined in with GW2 have left for other games and had switched servers mostly anyway. Very introverted and shy so it makes it hard to do things which require actually playing with someone and just alongside them. And it's not so much the difficulty as it is the anxiety that keeps me from playing. Which I do realize is a bit of a catch 22. If I learned how to play, I wouldn't be so anxious which would increase my fun in the game mode. I did have to some extent play the mode when the game first launched for map completion and I did find the mode more interesting than I had originally anticipated. Just not fun enough to get over the anxiety of the mode.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2019

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    I simply don't understand why the carrot would necessarily disappear in this scenario.

    It would no longer be a carrot. It would become a stick.

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    So, if the recommendation for newer players to raids is ascended/exotic quality gear, there's very much a place for gear as it pads your chances to win the encounter, this much we agree on. If it has this kind of effect, one can assume that OP's idea would help even further.

    You can bet that if Legendaries offered an increase in power, the gear level raids would be balanced around would also increase. So, your recommendations would become "legendary weapons and rest ascended" or even "legendary weapons and trinkets, ascended armor". That would, by the way, drastically reduce raiding population.

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    To me, the keyword here is "was"... I remember it, and yet it seems more like a "nontraversy" to me the further away we get from it.

    The only reason why that calmed down was because ascended were not all that hard to get, and Anet kept introducing new sources for them. With how costly Legendary gear is, it would not calm down. Not until Legendaries would also become as easy to obtain.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    I simply don't understand why the carrot would necessarily disappear in this scenario.

    It would no longer be a carrot. It would become a stick.

    I see this as a difference in points of view and expectations.

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    So, if the recommendation for newer players to raids is ascended/exotic quality gear, there's very much a place for gear as it pads your chances to win the encounter, this much we agree on. If it has this kind of effect, one can assume that OP's idea would help even further.

    You can bet that if Legendaries offered an increase in power, the gear level raids would be balanced around would also increase. So, your recommendations would become "legendary weapons and rest ascended" or even "legendary weapons and trinkets, ascended armor". That would, by the way, drastically reduce raiding population.

    Without knowing the actual values that would take place if OP's suggestions ever were implemented it's hard to say how much would be balanced. But, sure, with how strong they are in their post, you could see them being preferred. However, I just go back to my previous example where success in raids is mostly about knowledge of what to avoid and knowledge of how to execute your rotations and adapt to sudden changes. That would still be the bar for which people need to pass, equipment is just a longer vaulting pole you can use to more easily clear it.

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    To me, the keyword here is "was"... I remember it, and yet it seems more like a "nontraversy" to me the further away we get from it.

    The only reason why that calmed down was because ascended were not all that hard to get, and Anet kept introducing new sources for them. With how costly Legendary gear is, it would not calm down. Not until Legendaries would also become as easy to obtain.

    Fair point on the wide distribution of ascended equipment over time and the subsequent observation on time/cost for legendaries.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    However, my stance that legendaries should be powerful is solely based on the fact that there's no reason to get them outside of what was stated: they offer no benefit other than QoL, and to me, that's not special. Yes, I do play multiple builds on multiple characters. What's legendary about them? Legendary aesthetics? OK, it's a good start, but it hasn't been enough.

    You do realize that ANet intended for legendary gear to only have QoL/cosmetic benefits and not be more powerful than the next lower tier, right? So your suggestion and the OP's goes against ANets intentions for legendary gear.

    They wanted the items you had to grind for ages to get be something optional. So that players didn't have to spend months grinding in order to get top gear to join in with the end game content.

    Yes, I necessarily realize that they're contrary to their core philosophy - I'm specifically saying that clinging to the same philosophy for as long as they have may have had unintended consequences. The gear ceiling in GW2 is easy to hit. Even if you just play PvE and all of its faceroll content you can get them with ease. If you play the other game modes in addition, then it's 2-3 fold easier since you can use all of those mode-specific currencies to acquire ascended.

    I have 18 characters, each with a full set of ascended and 2-3 of them have an extra set sitting in their inventory. Some have legendary weapons. But none have legendary armor. I stopped at 57ish legendary insights and am always on the fence about whether or not I want to continue on them since all my ascended is just as good. Mystic forge stat swapping is barely an inconvenience if I want to do a different build. At this point I'd only want them for their cosmetics, but the more I think about it I lose more and more interest in them.

    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    The day your or the OP's suggestion is put in is the day I uninstall and never play again. I do not want to have to grind to get legendary gear for all of my characters. I doubt I'm the only one who would.

    I barely tolerate the very very very very little WvW that I have to do to get the legendary weapons. But I do it slowly via the dailies and on days that I feel like it because I don't need the legendary for anything. I can shelve working on my legendary to gear a character out in Ascended if I felt like it. And not be hurt.

    If people are worried about bullying and absurd gear checks, I don't see that as being relevant here. If anything, people post trophies from raid bosses as "kill proof" to show them they've done the bosses before. As I mentioned, raids can be done in gear as common as blues if you're worried that community standards will fall, that's on the community for deciding to go a certain way.


    Let me level with you. I'm just a player sitting at the edge of every release because that's about all I can do. Between new content in PvE and whatever farming I do I'm just in WvW or PvP. But I play everything. Every game mode, and let me just say there's not a whole lot to work on, so I welcome a goal. I welcome something to chase after. Most of the things I see right now don't move me in any capacity. So I'm just here waiting for new things to do, new content, new anything really. I don't see much in the way of longterms goals that mean anything and that's my problem here - in addition with the game simply being too easy.

    1. I don't raid. I don't have the attention span to really learn a rotation. I should mention that I main an Elementalist. I'm just fine with not getting legendary armor due to this as I believe that raids should have some reward that is appropriately better given their difficulty compared to other content in the game. I also didn't bring up raids at all, so not sure why you're making it a point to mention to me that they can be done in blues like I missed it the first time.

    My point for bringing up raids in the specific way that I did was solely to showcase how completely trivial the gear tiering in this game is in the first place. I understand you don't raid, but I also haven't set foot there in about a 6 months. It's less about the content of raids and more about how frustratingly unimpactful gear is anyway. And a change like OP's change would be exciting. I understand it would necessarily raise a bar, but it's something I'd be interested in.

    1. I have no problems getting into groups when I choose to do so. I stay out of the ones that look like they are looking for the pros or are trying to speedrun. And ask if it's not clear. And I start my own if I can't find one and don't want to wait for someone to start one. I think people PUGing have every right to have requirements for who joins them. Even if they are ridiculous and super specific. I don't think there is a huge bullying problem with PUG's.

    Precisely. Guild Wars 2 is typically free from those same elitist nonsense and I don't understand someone's argument that it would change just because of the OP's idea.

    1. I have come to realize that in most games that don't have a definite "win" point that I need a long term goal to work on while I play what I want or directly to get it. This goal needs to not be something that's part of the meta as I like to run meta as it increases the pool of groups I can join. I like that I can decide that I want to work towards gearing up a new character in ascended without feeling like I'm hurting the character I'm getting the legendary gear for.

    And I'm glad that you've found something that works for you! I just don't think the idea here forces anyone to do something.

    1. I do get that you need a goal that's not just a small carrot, but it would turn me off of the game if there were no long term small carrot goals like what legendary gear currently is.

    I simply don't understand why the carrot would necessarily disappear in this scenario. If anything it's just an... improved carrot? It's the same one you were going for before, but just better.

    I do hope you find a goal that works for you, but hope that you also realize that for many of us that this is the only game out there where the long term goals are cosmetic and QoL based and not with it being fully gearing out our characters in max tier gear.

    And I just hope to point out that for a significant amount of people, my mentality around this and the other points I brought up are of significant concern. Cosmetics will simply come to me over the course of my, or anyone else's, playtime. To me, I'm in it for the cosmetic, the efficacy, the everything. There is no need to distinguish between them to me.

    I don't want my long term goal to be gear that is the best in the game stat wise. Making the carrot the best gear in the game stat wise just turns me off. I don't want it to take months if not years to fully gear out a single character in the best gear stat wise. I may one day decide that I do want to put forth the time and effort into learning rotations to try raids. I get that they can be in blues, but that's not something someone learning should try. Someone still mastering the content should play in the best stat gear until it's easy and then go down to the next lowest tier and so forth. I don't want to be years away from being able to do that including time playing the content that I would need to do in order to get that way. Especially if they started designing the game overall around that being top tier.

    I say months/years because I do not buy my legendary gear or any precursors and I'm casual. I buy my way past the steps that require WvW and PvP that can be bought - Memories of Battle, Shards of Glory (the PvP equivalent to Memories of Battle if that's not their name). To get the Gift of Battle I do now have to go in and do WvW and I do the PvE dailies - Big Spender, Capture a Shrine, etc that have the lowest chances of me finding anyone - so I don't tend to do Vet slayer. And I did actually map complete in WvW a couple of times back when that was required to get Gift of Exploration. I have made 1 legendary weapon. I've been playing since launch. I'm working on my second currently.

    So, if the recommendation for newer players to raids is ascended/exotic quality gear, there's very much a place for gear as it pads your chances to win the encounter, this much we agree on. If it has this kind of effect, one can assume that OP's idea would help even further.

    Just so I know, can you define "casual" in the way you see it? I've been around since launch as well and if it helps at all, I've got somewhere in the vicinity of 5.6 k hours played. However, I would hazard a guess that as another longtime player you know a great deal of the mechanics in the game and probably don't struggle with combat to the capacity I described in a previous post.

    Do you go into WvW by yourself though? It's often much easier to get the other dailies with even 1 more person. I'd rather not digress much on this point, but I'm just curious.

    Casual as in I only have 1,647 hours played over the last 7 years. I'll play for several hours a day for a few days/weeks. Then go months without playing the game at all except maybe to log in to unlock the living story chapter or collect my daily login reward. I know of the mechanics. I don't necessarily know how to execute it. Like I know breaking break bars would have made Eater of Souls so much easier. Couldn't do it the one time I did it back before they nerfed him, so had to kill him the long way as I couldn't prevent his attacks. Haven't played that mission since. Sad they nerfed him, though. I won't get as huge of a rush if I one day manage to beat him easily because part of me will be like "it's just because they nerfed him, not because you got better".

    I mostly run around core Tyria doing map completion or running characters through the personal story, starting with the core game story. Unfortunately, the open world and core game story doesn't do much if anything to teach mechanics. And by the time a new player has reached HoT content, bad habits have been set. It's why HoT faced such a backlash because suddenly you had to use game mechanics in open world. They do need to do a better job of teaching mechanics. It would let them increase the difficulty without facing the same backlash. Which would likely help at least to some degree with the lack of goals if the difficulty was allowed to increase enough over the course of the missions to where it was actually difficult for you but not impossible.

    Yes, sadly the game really doesn't do a good job of explaining things itself. I didn't really think of the "bad habit" portion of things, but I'm typically a very curious type of person and do a lot of research on my hobbies. I do understand that my experience isn't the same as others, but I just point back to my "The game needs to be first to explain itself to players, then the players take the reins," mentality. In which case, GW2 clearly has failed to do so.

    Yeah, sorry! I wasn't expecting the difference in hours to have that big of a disparity! And I really hope I don't come across as insulting your, or anyone else's intelligence here! I'm just interesting in how you go about your goals with so few hours to attend to them. The example of Eater of Souls was a big deal when it came out, I wasn't ready for it to chunk you so badly if you didn't break its bar, but then I adjusted to it before the nerf. I even went in with a friend of mine to try to help and got turned into a useless spirit! They really wanted the responsibility to be on the player on that one, but they seemed to overestimate the average on that one.

    I go into WvW alone. My friends that I joined in with GW2 have left for other games and had switched servers mostly anyway. Very introverted and shy so it makes it hard to do things which require actually playing with someone and just alongside them. And it's not so much the difficulty as it is the anxiety that keeps me from playing. Which I do realize is a bit of a catch 22. If I learned how to play, I wouldn't be so anxious which would increase my fun in the game mode. I did have to some extent play the mode when the game first launched for map completion and I did find the mode more interesting than I had originally anticipated. Just not fun enough to get over the anxiety of the mode.

    I get that people don't enjoy being forced into content they don't want to do, particularly PvP or WvW where interplayer conflict can have additional effects. My process was going through PvE as the majority of my playtime until I couldn't get much more out of it, then WvW and sPvP became my endgame, just like how it happened in GW1. To me, the most difficult content in this game involves conflicts with other players because you really have to be sharp and know what to look for, how to exploit a moment's misstep, how to recover from your own missteps, and secure the kill.

    As for WvW I wish it was less of an oppressive experience for you and many others like you, though I won't try to make any attempts to apologize for the game mode; that's up to Anet's way to showcase it. Still, I managed to help some guildies of mine at least tolerate it while we're together. I know they won't do it themselves, but they've even grown to enjoy it as long as it's in a group setting. I know this doesn't resolve your anxiety over the mode, but I hope it can show a different aspect of it than the "solo" experience. I'll say that for most of the content in the game it doesn't matter much if I do it alone or in a group, though WvW is made infinitely more enjoyable and/or tolerable when more people are helping. I know that seems like common sense, but I'm just sharing.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • So the majority of dissenting opinions AGAINST this have been regards to power creep in pve content such as fractals and raids.
    Would there be any possibility of finding this acceptable if these changes were made JUST to open world, as to avoid the problems associated with gear elitism outlined? People should be able to enjoy the fruits of their (very hard earned) labor beyond just cosmetics and a stat switch IMO, and as FrigginPaco pointed out, there's no reason why they can't alter existing content in settings where it doesn't realistically affect other platers, given how low the gear ceiling in this game is.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kharrus.6015 said:
    So the majority of dissenting opinions AGAINST this have been regards to power creep in pve content such as fractals and raids.
    Would there be any possibility of finding this acceptable if these changes were made JUST to open world, as to avoid the problems associated with gear elitism outlined? People should be able to enjoy the fruits of their (very hard earned) labor beyond just cosmetics and a stat switch IMO, and as FrigginPaco pointed out, there's no reason why they can't alter existing content in settings where it doesn't realistically affect other platers, given how low the gear ceiling in this game is.

    You dont need it in open world most mobs die if you sneeze their way.

  • Kharrus.6015Kharrus.6015 Member ✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    It sounds to me like you want this game to be something it's not nor was it ever advertised as such. There are plenty of other MMOs that have gear treadmills, including WoW classic which was just released.

    For a time I did briefly try others, but ultimately, no other MMO has the combat mechanics that GW2 offers. It's what I enjoy most about this game aside from the expanding universe and story. And before you or anyone else goes any further on this point, I have no interest in any other MMO that currently exists. For a long time I was happy with the GW2 status quo and I'm just tired of not having any real reason to pursue a goal(s) for so long. I'm basically just waiting for this Saga to roll out and hopefully hear news of an expack sometime in 2021.

    And lastly, why do my desires have to take any more of a backseat than the people saying no? I'm very invested into where GW2 goes in the future, but I feel like it has room to grow in certain dimensions and other people probably feel it can grow in other ways.

    If you are very invested into GW2 then you would understand that adding more gear grind would hurt GW2's future. The Ascended gear backlash was bad enough. Imagine the backlash if they did this. It would absolutely destroy what's left of WvW.

    I specifically mentioned in the post that the stat effects listed would be barred from pvp and wvw. I'm also certainly open to extending that to raids and fractals given people's concerns, but honestly I'm seeing that as a complete non-issue.

    So your group is led by someone refusing to admit people because they don't have the BEST possible gear to min/max the encounter? Great! That means they're an elitist whose only concern is the gold per hour they and their friends can make, and you should avoid them like the plague. The bar for being able to complete group content centers around organization and rotation, not hyper-optimizing gear, even if that completes if faster. People play this game because it's gorgeous and fun; it draws you in and wraps its technicolored wonder around you, immersing you in the kind of personalized high-fantasy world people only get to end up writing about.

    To me, and my experience gaming, Guild Wars 2 is unique because of how personal everything is in the game. You BECOME one of the lead characters, and are involved in the world's development intimately, even agonizingly in the case of Aurene. Everything from the dye system to the detail put into the writing in this game is deeply, unequivocally individual to the player. It's incredibly endearing because of this, and how easy it is to connect to the characters in-game just furthers this connection. So the culmination of everything the game should BE as personally-tailored as it is, SHOULD be legendary gear. I thought I made this clear in the original post, but I guess I needed to expand on the backround for it.

    So with that said, what exactly is the problem for increasing the power level of legendary gear given the amount of blood sweat and tears that goes into making them, if it doesn't affect group content in any meaningful way? And if it does, some very good points have been made about how stagnant game balance would benefit from it, as well find new ways to balance around them. Because in the end, what many people who focus on PVE end up grinding all that gold and time for IS end-game gear, which are the legendaries. They SHOULD be a focus for how game content is balanced, and more powerful for it.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kharrus.6015 said:

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    It sounds to me like you want this game to be something it's not nor was it ever advertised as such. There are plenty of other MMOs that have gear treadmills, including WoW classic which was just released.

    For a time I did briefly try others, but ultimately, no other MMO has the combat mechanics that GW2 offers. It's what I enjoy most about this game aside from the expanding universe and story. And before you or anyone else goes any further on this point, I have no interest in any other MMO that currently exists. For a long time I was happy with the GW2 status quo and I'm just tired of not having any real reason to pursue a goal(s) for so long. I'm basically just waiting for this Saga to roll out and hopefully hear news of an expack sometime in 2021.

    And lastly, why do my desires have to take any more of a backseat than the people saying no? I'm very invested into where GW2 goes in the future, but I feel like it has room to grow in certain dimensions and other people probably feel it can grow in other ways.

    If you are very invested into GW2 then you would understand that adding more gear grind would hurt GW2's future. The Ascended gear backlash was bad enough. Imagine the backlash if they did this. It would absolutely destroy what's left of WvW.

    I specifically mentioned in the post that the stat effects listed would be barred from pvp and wvw. I'm also certainly open to extending that to raids and fractals given people's concerns, but honestly I'm seeing that as a complete non-issue.

    So your group is led by someone refusing to admit people because they don't have the BEST possible gear to min/max the encounter? Great! That means they're an elitist whose only concern is the gold per hour they and their friends can make, and you should avoid them like the plague. The bar for being able to complete group content centers around organization and rotation, not hyper-optimizing gear, even if that completes if faster. People play this game because it's gorgeous and fun; it draws you in and wraps its technicolored wonder around you, immersing you in the kind of personalized high-fantasy world people only get to end up writing about.

    To me, and my experience gaming, Guild Wars 2 is unique because of how personal everything is in the game. You BECOME one of the lead characters, and are involved in the world's development intimately, even agonizingly in the case of Aurene. Everything from the dye system to the detail put into the writing in this game is deeply, unequivocally individual to the player. It's incredibly endearing because of this, and how easy it is to connect to the characters in-game just furthers this connection. So the culmination of everything the game should BE as personally-tailored as it is, SHOULD be legendary gear. I thought I made this clear in the original post, but I guess I needed to expand on the backround for it.

    So with that said, what exactly is the problem for increasing the power level of legendary gear given the amount of blood sweat and tears that goes into making them, if it doesn't affect group content in any meaningful way?

    What is the point of doing so if it doesn't affect group content in any meaningful way? Why would something that is effectively irrelevant to how you play the game be worthwhile doing? You're simply raising the bar for the sake of raising it.

    Legendary equipment offers ultimate convenience, the freedom of swapping stats wherever you are and unique skins and animations, that is enough.

  • @Pifil.5193 said:
    What is the point of doing so if it doesn't affect group content in any meaningful way? Why would something that is effectively irrelevant to how you play the game be worthwhile doing? You're simply raising the bar for the sake of raising it.

    Legendary equipment offers ultimate convenience, the freedom of swapping stats wherever you are and unique skins and animations, that is enough.

    As I said, barring effects from certain instanced content is one example of content balance that can be used. We see that particularly in sPvP, since it's taken years for the team to figure out just how horrifyingly overpowered certain stat combos can be in close combat, and the effect that has on class balancing (which is why they release class balance changes as split between pvp and open world).

    If I'm reading your post correctly, you're asking what the point of introducing this if it doesn't affect group content in any meaningful way? So far any opinion against this has been BECAUSE it would affect content in a meaningful way, which is why I'm listing easy methods to implement this. That said, some good points have been made about how the backlash against this might be coming from how small and restricted the power curve for gear in this game is. Maybe increasing it in a way that's rewarding and fun like this might be healthy.

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Kharrus.6015 said:
    So the majority of dissenting opinions AGAINST this have been regards to power creep in pve content such as fractals and raids.
    Would there be any possibility of finding this acceptable if these changes were made JUST to open world, as to avoid the problems associated with gear elitism outlined? People should be able to enjoy the fruits of their (very hard earned) labor beyond just cosmetics and a stat switch IMO, and as FrigginPaco pointed out, there's no reason why they can't alter existing content in settings where it doesn't realistically affect other platers, given how low the gear ceiling in this game is.

    You dont need it in open world most mobs die if you sneeze their way.

    You don't NEED anything beyond masterwork or rare gear in open world to clear mobs, but most of what people work towards especially for gear is about wanting something, not needing it.

  • @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    The game has long been too easy and it struggles with a reason to merit even ascended quality items. " Whoa whoa! Why would you allow for more power creep if it's already so easy?!" This ignores the possibility for Anet to buff enemies by making them:

    1. Hit harder/faster - take advantage of the increased armor values for ascended & the OP's proposed legendary armor adjustments
    2. Be more difficult to damage (not simply armor or health increases) - increase the value of ascended & legendary weapons
      2a. Have to be struck by certain conditions/effects/positional to exploit their vulnerabilities - Ex: Giant beetles can only be hit from the front, it makes them unique to deal with. People actually have to be put in front of its charge animation and dodge/block when they notice it or be launched. It demands you pay attention.
    3. Introduce damage types like existed in GW1 beyond simply direct physical damage - this has so many more implications and I wish they never shied away from it in the first place.
    4. Have unique mechanics - Probably my most desired change. More mobs need to have different attack patterns, methods of engagement/disengaging, and more frequent use of their alleged "powers". Why do spiders only poison on their big charge poison spray and not also with every other bite? Why do bears and other animals with fangs and claws not inflict bleeding with every other strike? Jacarandas, annoying as they are, at least have multiple ways to interact with the player that provokes interrupts or dodging out of the AoE of their lightning. Even the Canids in Elona are a nice change of for damage and escapability.

    I understand there would necessarily be issues in PvP and WvW scenarios for balance reasons, but that's gonna have to be shelved for me.

    This x1000. A solid example for where this is applied in the core game is how Destroyers are immune to Burning and Hylek are immune to Poison. I was hoping at some point they would have had each of the dragon minions have an immunity to conditions related to their attributes, but weak to others be a thing but that hasn't been addressed due to the unwillingness to alter content in the sub-lvl 80 game areas.

    They at least have been consistent about updating dragon minion content in the living world; Branded provide a decent challenge, and it's one of the reasons I'm excited to see where they take the Icebrood in the upcoming Saga.

    As for the #4 suggestion, this is a direction they've been moving in and iterated on a lot since the introduction of HoT. This REALLY encourages group cooperation and play, since npcs like the Chak are well-designed for being hilariously unforgiving in their mechanics. There's a kind of bug they have where you have to bar-break it to do damage and kill it, so some more skill or even condi-specific methods of overcoming NPCs to make them challenging is a good direction to go for balance. Take when they first introduced the Silverwastes; Npcs like the Mordrem Teragriffs and Thrashers were terrors to fight, especially as elites or champions due to the damage scaling working with their new, and unheard of, abilities. Things like the corrosive lines dealt by the teragriffs or the grasping thorns from the thrashers would rip player groups to shreds because they didn't have any prior concept of it. This game is REALLY good at releasing new, challenging PVE content, so the backlash to power creep is especially confusing to me given how strong the evidence is in the direction of them going towards that way with new content, and class rebalances compensating for it already.

  • NYG.2568NYG.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    leg·end·ar·y
    1.of, described in, or based on legends.

    leg·end
    1.a traditional STORY sometimes popularly regarded as historical but unauthenticated.

    If we look at Excalibur a true Legendary, we know the story behind why/and what makes it such..

    I have always said there is nothing "Legendary" about these weapons, EPIC would have been a more fitting description.

    To be even more accurate for what they are Collectionary's or Grindary's is most fitting...

    I agree, there needs to be something more that makes them unique other than their look. I am not saying they should be much more powerful, but that's what you'd think anyhow, but I understand why they are not.
    Some of the ideas you had for each "legendary" bonus affect are quite interesting, but it's a little to late for that now..

  • @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Kharrus.6015 said:

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @warherox.7943 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    What's the point? Why get legendary beyond its appearance or QoL? There is none.

    This proposal would make those items required as it would make them meta.

    And that's a problem why exactly? Because of this?

    It sounds to me like you want this game to be something it's not nor was it ever advertised as such. There are plenty of other MMOs that have gear treadmills, including WoW classic which was just released.

    For a time I did briefly try others, but ultimately, no other MMO has the combat mechanics that GW2 offers. It's what I enjoy most about this game aside from the expanding universe and story. And before you or anyone else goes any further on this point, I have no interest in any other MMO that currently exists. For a long time I was happy with the GW2 status quo and I'm just tired of not having any real reason to pursue a goal(s) for so long. I'm basically just waiting for this Saga to roll out and hopefully hear news of an expack sometime in 2021.

    And lastly, why do my desires have to take any more of a backseat than the people saying no? I'm very invested into where GW2 goes in the future, but I feel like it has room to grow in certain dimensions and other people probably feel it can grow in other ways.

    If you are very invested into GW2 then you would understand that adding more gear grind would hurt GW2's future. The Ascended gear backlash was bad enough. Imagine the backlash if they did this. It would absolutely destroy what's left of WvW.

    I specifically mentioned in the post that the stat effects listed would be barred from pvp and wvw. I'm also certainly open to extending that to raids and fractals given people's concerns, but honestly I'm seeing that as a complete non-issue.

    So your group is led by someone refusing to admit people because they don't have the BEST possible gear to min/max the encounter? Great! That means they're an elitist whose only concern is the gold per hour they and their friends can make, and you should avoid them like the plague. The bar for being able to complete group content centers around organization and rotation, not hyper-optimizing gear, even if that completes if faster. People play this game because it's gorgeous and fun; it draws you in and wraps its technicolored wonder around you, immersing you in the kind of personalized high-fantasy world people only get to end up writing about.

    To me, and my experience gaming, Guild Wars 2 is unique because of how personal everything is in the game. You BECOME one of the lead characters, and are involved in the world's development intimately, even agonizingly in the case of Aurene. Everything from the dye system to the detail put into the writing in this game is deeply, unequivocally individual to the player. It's incredibly endearing because of this, and how easy it is to connect to the characters in-game just furthers this connection. So the culmination of everything the game should BE as personally-tailored as it is, SHOULD be legendary gear. I thought I made this clear in the original post, but I guess I needed to expand on the backround for it.

    So with that said, what exactly is the problem for increasing the power level of legendary gear given the amount of blood sweat and tears that goes into making them, if it doesn't affect group content in any meaningful way?

    What is the point of doing so if it doesn't affect group content in any meaningful way? Why would something that is effectively irrelevant to how you play the game be worthwhile doing? You're simply raising the bar for the sake of raising it.

    Legendary equipment offers ultimate convenience, the freedom of swapping stats wherever you are and unique skins and animations, that is enough.

    Gotta have that gear treadmill so people can see bigger numbers otherwise there is no "progression"

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kharrus.6015 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Kharrus.6015 said:
    So the majority of dissenting opinions AGAINST this have been regards to power creep in pve content such as fractals and raids.
    Would there be any possibility of finding this acceptable if these changes were made JUST to open world, as to avoid the problems associated with gear elitism outlined? People should be able to enjoy the fruits of their (very hard earned) labor beyond just cosmetics and a stat switch IMO, and as FrigginPaco pointed out, there's no reason why they can't alter existing content in settings where it doesn't realistically affect other platers, given how low the gear ceiling in this game is.

    You dont need it in open world most mobs die if you sneeze their way.

    You don't NEED anything beyond masterwork or rare gear in open world to clear mobs, but most of what people work towards especially for gear is about wanting something, not needing it.

    Then there is no need to change if people want legendary gear they will work for it becouse they want it.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Kharrus.6015 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Kharrus.6015 said:
    So the majority of dissenting opinions AGAINST this have been regards to power creep in pve content such as fractals and raids.
    Would there be any possibility of finding this acceptable if these changes were made JUST to open world, as to avoid the problems associated with gear elitism outlined? People should be able to enjoy the fruits of their (very hard earned) labor beyond just cosmetics and a stat switch IMO, and as FrigginPaco pointed out, there's no reason why they can't alter existing content in settings where it doesn't realistically affect other platers, given how low the gear ceiling in this game is.

    You dont need it in open world most mobs die if you sneeze their way.

    You don't NEED anything beyond masterwork or rare gear in open world to clear mobs, but most of what people work towards especially for gear is about wanting something, not needing it.

    Then there is no need to change if people want legendary gear they will work for it becouse they want it.

    Yep, the things I worked for when I got my legendaries were the skins more than anything else (and the excellent journey in the car of Chuka and Champawat) I don't care that the stats are the same as Ascended, in fact I prefer that.

    I like shooting tigers out of my bow or watching foes crumble into a burning gap when I kill them with Incinerator that's enough for me.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A no from me as well. I still consider Ascended gear with a +5% benefit over Exotics to be a mistake.

    This game was designed from the very start to have no gear progression, once you hit 80 and grab exotics you're good to go, just waste some gold to change stats and runes every now and then for new metas or new content etc. And a lot of players really love that part, and would hate to see any sort of "BiS" system be implemented.

    Just to point out, at launch, all Legendary weapons where exotic quality in soldier stats. So they actually did less damage than your average berserker exo. So there is a preceedent for the opposite.

    Also, removing this from PvP and WvW is one thing, removing them from Fractals ad Raids, what is left? Open World and Dungeons ? The most trivially easy content in the game at this point. Honestly what would be the point? Things just die in open world, at that point it would hardly matter if it was +10% damage or +100% damage or -50% damage, things just die in open world. At that I just don't see the point of this.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    "GW2 is a MSOFGG: Mass Singleplayer Online Fashion Grinding Game" -me

  • FrigginPaco.4178FrigginPaco.4178 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    @NYG.2568 said:
    leg·end·ar·y
    1.of, described in, or based on legends.

    leg·end
    1.a traditional STORY sometimes popularly regarded as historical but unauthenticated.

    If we look at Excalibur a true Legendary, we know the story behind why/and what makes it such..

    I have always said there is nothing "Legendary" about these weapons, EPIC would have been a more fitting description.

    To be even more accurate for what they are Collectionary's or Grindary's is most fitting...

    I agree, there needs to be something more that makes them unique other than their look. I am not saying they should be much more powerful, but that's what you'd think anyhow, but I understand why they are not.
    Some of the ideas you had for each "legendary" bonus affect are quite interesting, but it's a little to late for that now..

    Ok, so Mjolnir is just a short hammer in a few stories by this logic? Nothing else to it?

    Even your boy Trahearn had a legendary from Irish mythology Caladbolg – Two-handed sword of Fergus mac Róich in Irish legend; said to make a circle like an arc of rainbow when swung, and to have the power to cleave the tops from the hills.

    Another that made it into GW2 was Sharur - the enchanted talking mace of Ninurta, Sumerian god

    What about in-game options like Magdaer? You know, the sword that caused the entire Foefire, raising an entire nation as ghosts a la Return of the King? Ah, I guess it's not a legendary weapon, so it doesn't count...

    <_<

    We can do this all day, but at the end it's just a point-of-view battle here to find an example that suits our purposes. Also, Excalibur (and Mjolnir) may be a legendary, but they don't exist in GW2 (Edit: Mjornir exists as an exotic weapon I had forgotten about that). Even further, very few of the legendaries have any in-game lore associated with them (and the HoT elite specs for that matter). I believe only Nevermore, Astralaria, and Chuk n' Champ have associated lore in their collections; both in the UI and in the places/things you need to do. But barring those, no one explained why the gen 1 legendary greatwords are cosmic windows to the universe.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • NYG.2568NYG.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @NYG.2568 said:
    leg·end·ar·y
    1.of, described in, or based on legends.

    leg·end
    1.a traditional STORY sometimes popularly regarded as historical but unauthenticated.

    If we look at Excalibur a true Legendary, we know the story behind why/and what makes it such..

    I have always said there is nothing "Legendary" about these weapons, EPIC would have been a more fitting description.

    To be even more accurate for what they are Collectionary's or Grindary's is most fitting...

    I agree, there needs to be something more that makes them unique other than their look. I am not saying they should be much more powerful, but that's what you'd think anyhow, but I understand why they are not.
    Some of the ideas you had for each "legendary" bonus affect are quite interesting, but it's a little to late for that now..

    Ok, so Mjolnir is just a short hammer in a few stories by this logic? Nothing else to it?

    Even your boy Trahearn had a legendary from Irish mythology Caladbolg – Two-handed sword of Fergus mac Róich in Irish legend; said to make a circle like an arc of rainbow when swung, and to have the power to cleave the tops from the hills.

    Another that made it into GW2 was Sharur - the enchanted talking mace of Ninurta, Sumerian god

    What about in-game options like Magdaer? You know, the sword that caused the entire Foefire, raising an entire nation as ghosts a la Return of the King? Ah, I guess it's not a legendary weapon, so it doesn't count...

    <_<

    We can do this all day, but at the end it's just a point-of-view battle here to find an example that suits our purposes. Also, Excalibur (and Mjolnir) may be a legendary, but they don't exist in GW2 (Edit: Mjornir exists as an exotic weapon I had forgotten about that). Even further, very few of the legendary's have any in-game lore associated with them (and the HoT elite specs for that matter). I believe only Nevermore, Astralaria, and Chuk n' Champ have associated lore in their collections; both in the UI and in the places/things you need to do. But barring those, no one explained why the gen 1 legendary greatwords are cosmic windows to the universe.

    I'm pretty sure you some what validated my point.
    I used Excalibur as an example, Mjolnir also fits my example, They both had a story/lore and reason why they were made, why they needed to be used and by whom.
    Now in game there is very little if any true lore/legend behind these weapons I'm only speaking of THE Legendaries in game and the Lore of Tyria not outside influences.
    So what makes them Legendary to Tyrian's in essence. There is none, there is only go here collect this and collect that, craft this and craft that spend gold....
    I guess what I'm trying to get at is I wish there was a story driven journey in getting the Legendary's , not collections and a gold/material sink!

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