Appeal of the Russian-speaking community Guild Wars 2 - Page 7 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Appeal of the Russian-speaking community Guild Wars 2

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  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    The next subsets are german, spain and french (I personally don't know about the chinese market and I guess no one knows here) and Arenanet have people for them in their staff. So, for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff

    ?? who support now latin-cyrillic ? no one ? so why should be hire new support stuff if people write cyrillic instead latin-cyrillic???

    Yes, no one. So, they don't release the demon of enlarging the potential pool of diverse insults and stick with that. It's a rational and financial situation overall.

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  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Yes, no one. So, they don't release the demon of enlarging the potential pool of diverse insults and stick with that. It's a rational and financial situation overall.

    I was put you text in translator, as always, but still not see answer.

  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    And who controls the chat reports?

    and who control it now then it writed to someone on translate latin alfabet ? :) or something positive like "4e, berega poputal?"
    no one ? So why we should care if anyway this is unknow for something how it looks ?

    Thanks for supporting my argument. Why expand the chat possibilities that only cater to a certain subset of the player base if you already cannot control everything you want right now? The majority of players are communicating in english due to being native speakers or being able to speak english. The next subsets are german, spain and french (I personally don't know about the chinese market and I guess no one knows here) and Arenanet have people for them in their staff. So, for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff a thing which is most likely not to happen if we take a look at what has happened to the company this year. It's about money and therefore I doubt that Arenanet has the capacities of realizing it.

    Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?
    Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

    NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?
    Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

    NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

    They don't have support for Polish or Swedish. That's the point here. And why is that? Because the swedish players generally are very well educated when it comes to the english language and the polish base is just not big enough that they deserve special treatment. Again, a business decision, it's not about being impolite or so. Things cost money and since the russian speaking player base is a bit larger than a swedish or polish one we all know that including cyrillic letters would have an impact on the chat and especially on chat abuse and reportings. That has nothing to do with the russian speaking community being more toxic or have a bigger potential. No, I would say it's the same but at the moment you can oversee abusive behavior quite well because most of the abusive comments are in english and therefore can be sanctioned pretty easily due to English being the world language. So, if you load in another impactful language you load into more necessary supervising and that costs money. Money that Anet haven't invested yet as it seems. They have their reasons and we don't know about them but in the end it'll be one thing: a business decision. And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters? I rather believe they have other worries than such an implementation.
    At the moment they need to assure that the revenues aren't sinking into a bottomless abyss.

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  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters?

    yes, it should be MAIN priority IF target attract new players. I know - this is the best way.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters?

    yes, it should be MAIN priority IF target attract new players. I know - this is the best way.

    Main priority should be what benefits all players, not just a minority. And nobody knows if it really would attract new players if they add Cyrillic. I mean it wasn’t a problem for the last seven years.

  • Player 1 submits ticket for verbal abuse, the text of which is in Cyrillic .

    Player 1: "Anet, player 2 was extremely abusive in chat."
    Player 2: "I only said light blue."

    now if only there were a staff of employees that understood the nuance of the language and the cultural backgrounds.

    To release the alphabet without any support is to say "Here you go. You're on your own as we have no way to help you at all. If you send support tickets they'll be deleted as we have no way of reading them. Any chat reports will be ignored as we don't understand what's in the chat. If you find a name offensive, not anything we can do. We have no idea what's going on with that name. If chat becomes a troll fest, there's nothing we can do outside of shutting it down, because we have no method of monitoring it."

    In terms of chat using Latin characters, it's already problematic. However, the liability is minuscule if present at all. To release an alphabet with total disregard for any support or customer care is wildly irresponsible. If you cannot see the unequivocation of having making the game in English, using the Latin alphabet, and and trying to figure the best way to support players typing in a different language with said alphabet, c.f. implementing an alphabet with no support at all, then I'm not sure what else to say. Yes there's a Latin alphabet, but that's because this is the alphabet English uses. You have to be able to see why throwing in every alphabet, throwing your hands up and exclaiming "Oh well!" is not the morally correct thing to do.

    side note: can't have a chat filter if no one knows the language. considering the game's rating, not having a chat filter is not an option.

    That being said. I fully support all attempts to expand the language support of all products and services. Globalization is a good thing. That being said, it has to be done correctly and responsibly. This means that requests are made in the spirit of this expectation (that it is a large undertaking with massive implications requiring thorough consideration and due diligence). As long as you understand everything that goes into implementing alphabets and languages, and the time and resources requried for such an undertaking, then there's nothing more to discuss on the matter. Spreading misinformation that this is a simple thing to do that takes no time or effort is objectively irresponsible.

    "The ancient Oracle said I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing." -Socrates
    "Victorious warriors win first, then go to war. Defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win."-Sun Tzu

  • Lara Kroft Rus.3954Lara Kroft Rus.3954 Member ✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:

    I think that you are conflating chat support with localisation. This is not what this thread calls for. This thread specifically asks for Cyrillic script support in chats, i.e. players want to be able to write and read in chat using Cyrillic alphabets. No one asks for game translation or support in their native languages.

    Ol, if you didn’t notice, then my post was moved to this thread, and in it I’m talking not only about chat, but about localization. And she was asked from the very sale of the game, on this forum and there was a petition to the address of Anet.>

    @Ben K.6238 said:

    Vietnamese and Tagalog use Latin script for example, and I'd be pretty surprised if ANet has support staff for either of those languages.

    If it's not an officially supported language, the company will usually do a best-effort translation using translation software. This does not always provide a great result - I have first-hand experience trying to work this out with Russian chat, which has some rather complicated grammar and complicated profanity to go with it - but game companies usually stipulate in the EULA that they can't guarantee good behaviour from other players.

    Ben, automatic translation is really not a panacea. Google, my translator (through which I am writing to you) debugged only this year so that he understood the difference in grammar. Although he is still. He doesn’t understand that if “You” is capitalized, then it will be translated into English, like “Sir” or “Ma'am”.

    And playing, using a translator in a browser, is just troublesome. You must go from the game window to the browser window and vice versa.

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    And who controls the chat reports? I mean every community has its toxicity and if I'm thinking about CS and others, holy moly I heard more russian rages than english ones. So, even if those insults are not understood by the majority of the GW2 community how are you handling that? I think you need more than one support employee to manage all the chat reports and now we are talking about a significant amount of money, not 1-2k dollars once.

    It is possible to insult a person and his country in pure English.

    @yoni.7015 said:

    Main priority should be what benefits all players, not just a minority. And nobody knows if it really would attract new players if they add Cyrillic. I mean it wasn’t a problem for the last seven years.

    Why, do you consider it a minority if this language is spoken in 15 countries?

      People refuse to buy the game because a translation has not been made. They swear, sitting at the computer, from the fact that it is not clear what the video is talking about, or what the NPC wants with a heart. What can’t be understood, the text of the chat is written in English, or it translates the Russian Latin alphabet.

    Well, of course, there were no problems, and about them, here from the very start of the game, they did not write.

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    And who controls the chat reports? I mean every community has its toxicity and if I'm thinking about CS and others, holy moly I heard more russian rages than english ones.

    Vinceman, you are absolutely wrong in making such statements. Are you a linguist? Are you an expert? Do you know Russian? The answer is you don’t know.

    As you were told, when the players write in Latin, you can read, but you can’t understand what this or that word means in English.
    But you managed to make such a controversial statement that there is sheer swearing.
    You know that according to the grammar of the Russian language, greeting a person, the sign "!" Is placed at the end of the greeting. ? You saw a short phrase with this sign and interpreted it falsely as a curse.

  • Saniyah.1984Saniyah.1984 Member ✭✭✭

    @noviiparen.8163 said:
    Hello from Russia, My friends!

    In this video, the Russian-speaking gaming community of Guild Wars 2 request ArenaNet to start supporting Cyrillic letters in the game. I know that these problems not only Russian players , but also many other countries. Unfortunately, I cannot be responsible for everyone, but I can be responsible for those with whom I play. Do not remain indifferent to our problem and support our appeal!

    https://youtu.be/xX6EQSBJbkA

    How much will you pay?

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    Why, do you consider it a minority if this language is spoken in 15 countries?

      People refuse to buy the game because a translation has not been made. They swear, sitting at the computer, from the fact that it is not clear what the video is talking about, or what the NPC wants with a heart. What can’t be understood, the text of the chat is written in English, or it translates the Russian Latin alphabet.

    Well, of course, there were no problems, and about them, here from the very start of the game, they did not write!

    Because it is a minority, most players on EU server are fine with Latin. And the majority ingame doesn’t use Cyrillic, so they would not have any benefit. And as I said priority should be what benefits all players.

    You only need a little bit of English to understand the game, it is not that difficult to understand.

  • Lara Kroft Rus.3954Lara Kroft Rus.3954 Member ✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @yoni.7015 said:
    Because it is a minority, most players on EU server are fine with Latin. And the majority ingame doesn’t use Cyrillic, so they would not have any benefit. And as I said priority should be what benefits all players.

    And what percentage of those that are on the EU servers speak Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Belarusian, Serbian (the list can be continued for a long time) ?? That is, those whose language is in Cyrillic, and not in the Latin alphabet.
    I am also on the EU server and my alphabet is Cyrillic. Or did you decide that Russia has its own server for this game?)))

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:

    @yoni.7015 said:
    Because it is a minority, most players on EU server are fine with Latin. And the majority ingame doesn’t use Cyrillic, so they would not have any benefit. And as I said priority should be what benefits all players.

    And what percentage of those that are on the EU servers speak Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Belarusian, Serbian (the list can be continued for a long time) ?? That is, those whose language is in Cyrillic, and not in the Latin alphabet.
    I am also on the EU server and my alphabet is Cyrillic. Or did you decide that Russia has its own server for this game?)))

    I don’t know what percentage it is, do you? but I still believe that the majority in EU server uses Latin alphabet and can communicate in English.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    I think 25-35% of active players.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    I think 25-35% of active players.

    You have a source for that?

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:
    It is possible to insult a person and his country in pure English.

    Of course, but Arenanet can take action easily since English is the language of the company and every employee of the company is able to speak it. So, overall you don't need specific personnel for that.

    Vinceman, you are absolutely wrong in making such statements. Are you a linguist? Are you an expert? Do you know Russian? The answer is you don’t know.

    As you were told, when the players write in Latin, you can read, but you can’t understand what this or that word means in English.
    But you managed to make such a controversial statement that there is sheer swearing.
    You know that according to the grammar of the Russian language, greeting a person, the sign "!" Is placed at the end of the greeting. ? You saw a short phrase with this sign and interpreted it falsely as a curse.

    You don't understand. It won't matter to me. That's a difference. A russian player would be able to insult me and I just wouldn't care because - as you have pointed out correctly - I don't understand his expressions. Maybe I would block him if he's spamming but that would be a different thing and not the main problem here.
    The thing is: What is Arenanet doing if that player insults his own community, so to speak members that communicate(d) with him in russian language and he is getting very abusive? Therefore you should need support because otherwise this player will harm the game experience of other russian speaking players.
    Inb4: "But he could do that now with latin letters as well." - I'm aware of that and I'm sure Arenanet as well but why open another Pandora's box if things are working without it. It's not that the russian speaking community isn't able to communicate in English as almost everyone in this world is doing nowadays when affected with globalization. :)

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  • @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:
    It is possible to insult a person and his country in pure English.

    Of course, but Arenanet can take action easily since English is the language of the company and every employee of the company is able to speak it. So, overall you don't need specific personnel for that.

    Vinceman, you are absolutely wrong in making such statements. Are you a linguist? Are you an expert? Do you know Russian? The answer is you don’t know.

    As you were told, when the players write in Latin, you can read, but you can’t understand what this or that word means in English.
    But you managed to make such a controversial statement that there is sheer swearing.
    You know that according to the grammar of the Russian language, greeting a person, the sign "!" Is placed at the end of the greeting. ? You saw a short phrase with this sign and interpreted it falsely as a curse.

    You don't understand. It won't matter to me. That's a difference. A russian player would be able to insult me and I just wouldn't care because - as you have pointed out correctly - I don't understand his expressions. Maybe I would block him if he's spamming but that would be a different thing and not the main problem here.
    The thing is: What is Arenanet doing if that player insults his own community, so to speak members that communicate(d) with him in russian language and he is getting very abusive? Therefore you should need support because otherwise this player will harm the game experience of other russian speaking players.
    Inb4: "But he could do that now with latin letters as well." - I'm aware of that and I'm sure Arenanet as well but why open another Pandora's box if things are working without it. It's not that the russian speaking community isn't able to communicate in English as almost everyone in this world is doing nowadays when affected with globalization. :)

    We all have freedom of speech (as some people like to say here). This is called democracy. We have the right to ask for the addition of Cyrillic in the chat. At least because the official game purchase page for the Russian community is made in ... guess what language? Someone in this thread against our appeal? Explain the reason sincerely please. and don't be afraid to get a warning.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @Drevin.5392 said:
    We all have freedom of speech (as some people like to say here). This is called democracy. We have the right to ask for the addition of Cyrillic in the chat. At least because the official game purchase page for the Russian community is made in ... guess what language? Someone in this thread against our appeal? Explain the reason sincerely please. and don't be afraid to get a warning.

    I haven't refused the wish of the russian speaking community. On the contrary I upvoted in one of the threads and wrote that nothing speaks against the installation from generell player view - mine included.
    I'm just discussing why it is unlikely and not that "easy" to get your wish done otherwise it would already be present in the game, don't you think? It's definitely a business decision peppered with rational reasons and not a "We don't care." or "We don't want." decision. In the end it's all about the moneyz.
    So, totally understandable that you want to have cyrillic support but just think about the other side: an american company that has numbers of their players and earnings around the world in line with a budget scale.
    And no I'm not afraid of getting a warning, already got enough over the years. B)
    And the answer to the question why the purchase page can be read in Russian is obvious, n'est-ce pas? And btw. it's only the purchase page if I'm not mistaken. It can't be more obvious...Here comes the money...money money money money money.

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  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?
    Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

    NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

    They don't have support for Polish or Swedish.

    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    That's the point here. And why is that? Because the swedish players generally are very well educated when it comes to the english language and the polish base is just not big enough that they deserve special treatment. Again, a business decision, it's not about being impolite or so. Things cost money and since the russian speaking player base is a bit larger than a swedish or polish one we all know that including cyrillic letters would have an impact on the chat and especially on chat abuse and reportings. That has nothing to do with the russian speaking community being more toxic or have a bigger potential. No, I would say it's the same but at the moment you can oversee abusive behavior quite well because most of the abusive comments are in english and therefore can be sanctioned pretty easily due to English being the world language. So, if you load in another impactful language you load into more necessary supervising and that costs money.

    You incorrectly assume that people who cannot type in their native alphabet use English in chats. They do not. They use what is called transliteration, i.e. they use Latin letters to represent sounds of their native language. If anything, the introduction of Cyrillic script will make chat supervision and moderation much easier because automatic translation software does not work with transliterations well.

    There might be a higher number of chat abuse reports, but that would be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, isn't it?

    Money that Anet haven't invested yet as it seems. They have their reasons and we don't know about them but in the end it'll be one thing: a business decision. And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters? I rather believe they have other worries than such an implementation.
    At the moment they need to assure that the revenues aren't sinking into a bottomless abyss.

    I believe a statement like 'I do not want ArenaNet to spend money on the implementation of Cyrillic script in chat' reflects your position better. You are not an ArenaNet employee and do not know what their priorities are.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?
    Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

    NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

    They don't have support for Polish or Swedish.

    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    That's the point here. And why is that? Because the swedish players generally are very well educated when it comes to the english language and the polish base is just not big enough that they deserve special treatment. Again, a business decision, it's not about being impolite or so. Things cost money and since the russian speaking player base is a bit larger than a swedish or polish one we all know that including cyrillic letters would have an impact on the chat and especially on chat abuse and reportings. That has nothing to do with the russian speaking community being more toxic or have a bigger potential. No, I would say it's the same but at the moment you can oversee abusive behavior quite well because most of the abusive comments are in english and therefore can be sanctioned pretty easily due to English being the world language. So, if you load in another impactful language you load into more necessary supervising and that costs money.

    You incorrectly assume that people who cannot type in their native alphabet use English in chats. They do not. They use what is called transliteration, i.e. they use Latin letters to represent sounds of their native language. If anything, the introduction of Cyrillic script will make chat supervision and moderation much easier because automatic translation software does not work with transliterations well.

    There might be a higher number of chat abuse reports, but that would be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, isn't it?

    Money that Anet haven't invested yet as it seems. They have their reasons and we don't know about them but in the end it'll be one thing: a business decision. And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters? I rather believe they have other worries than such an implementation.
    At the moment they need to assure that the revenues aren't sinking into a bottomless abyss.

    I believe a statement like 'I do not want ArenaNet to spend money on the implementation of Cyrillic script in chat' reflects your position better. You are not an ArenaNet employee and do not know what their priorities are.

    Quoted wrong person please delete.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:
    @Ben K.6238 said:

    Vietnamese and Tagalog use Latin script for example, and I'd be pretty surprised if ANet has support staff for either of those languages.

    If it's not an officially supported language, the company will usually do a best-effort translation using translation software. This does not always provide a great result - I have first-hand experience trying to work this out with Russian chat, which has some rather complicated grammar and complicated profanity to go with it - but game companies usually stipulate in the EULA that they can't guarantee good behaviour from other players.

    Ben, automatic translation is really not a panacea. Google, my translator (through which I am writing to you) debugged only this year so that he understood the difference in grammar. Although he is still. He doesn’t understand that if “You” is capitalized, then it will be translated into English, like “Sir” or “Ma'am”.

    And playing, using a translator in a browser, is just troublesome. You must go from the game window to the browser window and vice versa.

    I know - but I wasn't suggesting players use Google Translate or something similar. That's just what moderation staff have to do if they encounter a report for a language they don't support. This problem exists regardless of whether the character set is supported, because it's possible to write Russian in normal Cyrillic or transliterated into Latin script, and most of ANet's staff can't read either of those forms.

    It's also possible that ANet will ignore a report if the language is unsupported. ANet's terms of service do not require them to act on every report, but I believe they will if the effort required is reasonable.

    I've seen the problems in translating between English and Russian too - the worst one was translating "character" to something like "символу" instead of "персонаж" for example.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    That doesn't play any role in this case and has no relevance to the topic.

    You incorrectly assume that people who cannot type in their native alphabet use English in chats. They do not. They use what is called transliteration, i.e. they use Latin letters to represent sounds of their native language. If anything, the introduction of Cyrillic script will make chat supervision and moderation much easier because automatic translation software does not work with transliterations well.

    If you read properly you would have noticed that I've already adressed this issue. But I ask you one question: How often do you read transliterations in the official map chats (not group, squad or anything else)? I'm on EU and I must tell you: Almost never. People are mostly using the english language to communicate on the EU servers. Of course I can't speak for NA servers, although it would surprise me if the population of russian speaking players would be bigger than on EU.

    There might be a higher number of chat abuse reports, but that would be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, isn't it?

    Why should newer players responsible for chat abuse in the first place. That makes no sense and is again of no relevance.

    I believe a statement like 'I do not want ArenaNet to spend money on the implementation of Cyrillic script in chat' reflects your position better. You are not an ArenaNet employee and do not know what their priorities are.

    Difficulties in reading on your side? I said I support it but you and others just don't accept that there are maybe issues for them to not being able to correspond to your wishes. And I repeat: I don't think they are not supporting it because they don't want to or aren't able to use an easy way of software package implementation (or anything related you would need).
    The long history of this 7 year old game has shown that their decisions are depending on capacity issues in every direction you look, be it bug fixing, shipping out new content in an appropriate time frame, communicating with players at all for example the terrible support in the other international forums and so on.
    My question now would be: Do you think they hate the russian speaking community? I don't. So there must be reasons why they haven't implemented it. And yeah, would be cool to get a statement from them but guess what: They most likely won't say anything as that's how they were behaving over the last years in many many cases where people wanted to have an answer. They don't treat you better or worse, that's all.

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  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    But I ask you one question: How often do you read transliterations in the official map chats (not group, squad or anything else)? I'm on EU and I must tell you: Almost never. People are mostly using the english language to communicate on the EU servers. Of course I can't speak for NA servers, although it would surprise me if the population of russian speaking players would be bigger than on EU.

    I don't think I've ever seen anyone speaking Russian on the NA servers (aside from the English speakers saying "cyka blyat" as a joke). I have seen frequent WvW map chat in Korean though, and occasionally Spanish, Portuguese and Tagalog. I've seen a few recruitment messages from DB guilds in traditional Chinese but haven't actually seen anyone use it to communicate.

    English is by far the most common language used for general communication though, with Korean occasionally taking over in late night WvW.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    The thing is: What is Arenanet doing if that player insults his own community, so to speak members that communicate(d) with him in russian language and he is getting very abusive?

    so what point for someone if this is do in "translate cyrilic language" or in cyrilic language in pure letters ? Anyway non languaest non undesrnat what talk xD

    ohhh. I know. You not read about that this discussion and how it look.
    I explain.
    Most european cyrilic plaeyrs anyway don't know English. They know 1 or two languages, but non English. Ofc present some cool like me, who can read and sometimes understand, but most not.
    ok, So now people write how it spell in cilic wiht some abstraction in latin letters. In this mode some word have more variantions ..( sometimes think "what?? aaa"
    And there is no any defirence for non-crylic player if he see text in latinized cyrilic or in pure cyrilic.
    One one point for non cyrilic: if in cyrilc - easy understand that this is not random letters.

  • @lare.5129 said:

    Most european cyrilic plaeyrs anyway don't know English. They know 1 or two languages, but non English. Ofc present some cool like me, who can read and sometimes understand, but most not.

    It's not 80s. Most eastern "cyrillic" european players know basic English. It's not something cool or outstanding.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    The thing is: What is Arenanet doing if that player insults his own community, so to speak members that communicate(d) with him in russian language and he is getting very abusive?

    so what point for someone if this is do in "translate cyrilic language" or in cyrilic language in pure letters ? Anyway non languaest non undesrnat what talk xD

    ohhh. I know. You not read about that this discussion and how it look.
    I explain.
    Most european cyrilic plaeyrs anyway don't know English. They know 1 or two languages, but non English. Ofc present some cool like me, who can read and sometimes understand, but most not.
    ok, So now people write how it spell in cilic wiht some abstraction in latin letters. In this mode some word have more variantions ..( sometimes think "what?? aaa"
    And there is no any defirence for non-crylic player if he see text in latinized cyrilic or in pure cyrilic.
    One one point for non cyrilic: if in cyrilc - easy understand that this is not random letters.

    I already answered to this in previous posts before. Maybe you read them carefully (again).

    And Wrong Device.3014 made a good point: At least in Europe nowadays lots of people are internationally educated so to speak they learned English in school, college and university and are able to communicate with it. Sure, for older people this could be a hurdle for example we have players in the german forum in the age of 50-60 and they haven't learned english or refuse to deal with it. From my point of view it's critical on the one hand I think everyone should be involved in a decent manner on the other hand I think that we are playing an online game from an american company so I can't expect that they are able to cater everything to the customer in the abroad.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Wrong Device.3014 said:
    It's not 80s. Most eastern "cyrillic" european players know basic English. It's not something cool or outstanding.

    depends how we understand word "basic". Also as I remember in 80's-85's English rate is not changed. One difference more pope now 20-30 words like "start, end, sell, buy, trash, go, stop .."

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    I already answered to this in previous posts before. Maybe you read them carefully (again).

    sorry, try use more simple, because google translate give me common minded words list without any mind line.

    And Wrong Device.3014 made a good point: At least in Europe nowadays lots of people are internationally educated so to speak they learned English in school, college and university

    you now talk wiht me, most knowledge and language expert, and I having university degree.
    For most others have 1-5% of my English.

    I can't expect that they are able to cater everything to the customer in the abroad.

    oh .. more easy explain:
    people now anyway NOW use latin cyrilic. No one is support this now.
    So why not make some promote for new players wiht normal cyrilic suppurt??

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:
    So why not make some promote for new players wiht normal cyrilic suppurt??

    Already answered that: I think it's due to money reasons. Maybe it could also be due to capacity issues and/or priority reasons which - in the end - is basically a money reason.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    Already answered that: I think it's due to money reasons. Maybe it could also be due to capacity issues and/or priority reasons which - in the end - is basically a money reason.

    to change this - this is one line in configuration file .. about that money you talk ?? :)

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    Already answered that: I think it's due to money reasons. Maybe it could also be due to capacity issues and/or priority reasons which - in the end - is basically a money reason.

    to change this - this is one line in configuration file .. about that money you talk ?? :)

    GW2 & spaghetti code anyone? You know the jokes?
    As I said repeatedly: If the whole thing would be as easy as you just wrote here why on earth they haven't already changed that? If it's not the money, capacity (which is money as well) or coding (time consuming and in the end money again) it must be a very "interesting" reason.
    Do you have some kind of conspiracy in mind? I'm just asking because the most obvious reasons are refused by you.

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  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    GW2 & spaghetti code anyone?

    do not mix code and configuration. Anyway if this is inside code - this is one line fix, no matter code is spaghetti or not. I am sure.

    Do you have some kind of conspiracy in mind?

    ?? Me no. And you ?

    I know English very good, and don't have any issues. Also I perfect write in latin cyrilic, so this is not problem for me. And I strong know what for some big value players the cyrilic input get some good choose to start play here.

    Most of them will like wvw also. So now choose: cry what wvw is sad and low population or make one line fix.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    GW2 & spaghetti code anyone?

    do not mix code and configuration. Anyway if this is inside code - this is one line fix, no matter code is spaghetti or not. I am sure.

    You and I, we both don't know. But people were bringing up "easy fixes" all the time when it was also stated by the company that things are getting complicated when it comes to certain changes. I never said and never will that this is the issue but it is one possible aspect.

    I know English very good, and don't have any issues. Also I perfect write in latin cyrilic, so this is not problem for me. And I strong know what for some big value players the cyrilic input get some good choose to start play here.

    Most of them will like wvw also. So now choose: cry what wvw is sad and low population or make one line fix.

    Again: What's your thought about the reason they haven't done this in 7 years of game's existence? You don't believe it's the money, you don't believe it's coding or dev capacities. What is it then according to your mind because there isn't much left, imho.

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  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    You and I, we both don't know.

    So if we both don't know, why any argument "money reasons" is exists ? ))))

    Again: What's your thought about the reason they haven't done this in 7 years of game's existence? You don't believe it's the money, you don't believe it's coding or dev capacities. What is it then according to your mind because there isn't much left, imho.

    because people who implement do only witted to do from management. Step by step. No one never do more.

    Why management don't say this ? Someone just forget.
    Now , when we interested keep gw2 on air we generate attract ideas. And this idea is great.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    I would say they did not implement it because it is not worth the time and the money because the benefit would not be significant. The player base who would need Cyrillic ingame is too small. And in EU server most use English for that Latin alphabet is enough.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    You and I, we both don't know.

    So if we both don't know, why any argument "money reasons" is exists ? ))))

    Again: What's your thought about the reason they haven't done this in 7 years of game's existence? You don't believe it's the money, you don't believe it's coding or dev capacities. What is it then according to your mind because there isn't much left, imho.

    because people who implement do only witted to do from management. Step by step. No one never do more.

    Why management don't say this ? Someone just forget.
    Now , when we interested keep gw2 on air we generate attract ideas. And this idea is great.

    I raised the question, made proposals to that question and got attacked for that and called out that I'm against the idea which I'm not.
    Yeah, the idea is - I would say - "good" not great but I would always ask the question: Why haven't they already delivered? And I would look for answers if I'm getting none and we both/all know that's the usual procedure here. Their lack in communication is extraordinary. So, my specific interest is why do you think that hasn't been implemened yet? There must be a reason or not? And that is where you start reasonable assumptions because I'm 100% sure we can agree that they don't sit in the office saying: "We don't like you so we don't implement that one line of code w/e." or "Hey, let's ignore a decent amount of our community." Ok, the latter is weak regarding the feedback drama about build templates but overall there must be a valid reason for them to not having reacted since years. And my guess is it has to do with money, be it capacity wise or time consuming. Their priority is set because they need to deliver to avoid the ship from sinking.
    People can tell me what they want: NCSoft numbers for GW2 were shrinking, we had layoffs in February not 1-2 dozen people, they were massive, a big disappointment when announcing Icebrood Saga with a ridiculous marketing appearance at the end which was totally misplaced, the president leaving the company recently accompanied by several other mid- to longterm employees and now a "not-so-well" (understatement according to the feedback here and the escalation on reddit which is way worse than here) release of build templates.
    So, this game is hopefully not doomed but at the moment really nobody can claim that everything is fine and well-prepared for the future. When making the turn back to this topic there's the legit question if you think they will be able to address the idea - which is completely justified - to this moment of time.

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  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    That doesn't play any role in this case and has no relevance to the topic.

    Wow... You said that addition of support for Cyrillic script in chats would require hiring support teams for chat moderation. I asked you why is it necessary for Cyrillic-based languages while it is not done for Latin-based languages. And now you are saying that it is irrelevant that Polish and Swedish do not have dedicated support teams despite being fully supported in chats.

    So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and condflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?

    You incorrectly assume that people who cannot type in their native alphabet use English in chats. They do not. They use what is called transliteration, i.e. they use Latin letters to represent sounds of their native language. If anything, the introduction of Cyrillic script will make chat supervision and moderation much easier because automatic translation software does not work with transliterations well.

    If you read properly you would have noticed that I've already adressed this issue. But I ask you one question: How often do you read transliterations in the official map chats (not group, squad or anything else)? I'm on EU and I must tell you: Almost never. People are mostly using the english language to communicate on the EU servers. Of course I can't speak for NA servers, although it would surprise me if the population of russian speaking players would be bigger than on EU.

    Why are you limiting this issue to the map chat? Are you implying that since the majority of people use English in map chats they have no need for their native languages in other chats? Have you ever considered that players who are not proficient in English do not use map chat at all despite being very active in group and guild chats?

    Petitioners here do not ask for Cyrillic support to flood map chats with Cyrillic. They ask for it to be able to talk to their compatriots in guilds, parties, and squads.

    There might be a higher number of chat abuse reports, but that would be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, isn't it?

    Why should newer players responsible for chat abuse in the first place. That makes no sense and is again of no relevance.

    Let me clarify this for you. The support for Cyrillic script would bring new players to the game. Hence, the sheer number of players will increase. The increase in player base might increase the number of chat abuse reports. This does not mean that new players would be responsible for transgressions. It is entirely possible that new players will report abusive behaviour of old players that do not like to see Cyrillic in chats.

    I believe a statement like 'I do not want ArenaNet to spend money on the implementation of Cyrillic script in chat' reflects your position better. You are not an ArenaNet employee and do not know what their priorities are.

    Difficulties in reading on your side? I said I support it but you and others just don't accept that there are maybe issues for them to not being able to correspond to your wishes. And I repeat: I don't think they are not supporting it because they don't want to or aren't able to use an easy way of software package implementation (or anything related you would need).

    I encourage you to re-read your own statements. I also believe that it would be easier fo you to keep track of the argument if you did not delete nested quotes.

    The long history of this 7 year old game has shown that their decisions are depending on capacity issues in every direction you look, be it bug fixing, shipping out new content in an appropriate time frame, communicating with players at all for example the terrible support in the other international forums and so on.

    Two wrongs do not make it right.

    My question now would be: Do you think they hate the russian speaking community? I don't. So there must be reasons why they haven't implemented it. And yeah, would be cool to get a statement from them but guess what: They most likely won't say anything as that's how they were behaving over the last years in many many cases where people wanted to have an answer. They don't treat you better or worse, that's all.

    I am not here to speculate about ArenaNet's decisions and reasoning for them. Neither I have sufficient information for that nor I am interested in that. I am here to support the petition of over 40 000 people who ask for a small quality of life update. I also strongly believe that games marketed to the EU should not deprive EU citizens of communication in their native languages (e.g. Bulgaria is an EU member and uses Cyrillic script).

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    Bulgaria is one country out of 27 in the European Union! Then why you don’t advocate for Greek alphabet as well? There is no law that says that games have to include all alphabets used in the European Union.

  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    GW2 & spaghetti code anyone?

    do not mix code and configuration. Anyway if this is inside code - this is one line fix, no matter code is spaghetti or not. I am sure.

    You and I, we both don't know. But people were bringing up "easy fixes" all the time when it was also stated by the company that things are getting complicated when it comes to certain changes. I never said and never will that this is the issue but it is one possible aspect.

    Considering that EU/NA GW2 chats support Korean and Traditional Chinese and that they show correct punctuation and a correct number of spaces for Cyrillic-based languages this whole issue might boil down to fonts. Speech bubbles also correctly render Korean and Traditional Chinese and display spaces for Cyrillic letters, so there is no problem here.

    This was discussed in this thread earlier. You can search for relevant posts if you are interested in more details.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Wow... You said that addition of support for Cyrillic script in chats would require hiring support teams for chat moderation. I asked you why is it necessary for Cyrillic-based languages while it is not done for Latin-based languages. And now you are saying that it is irrelevant that Polish and Swedish do not have dedicated support teams despite being fully supported in chats.

    So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and condflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?

    You are quite misinformed. There is support for chat moderation. English, German, French and Spanish speaking support but there isn't a dedicated support for Polish and Swedish people as far as I know. They have to use the English one which is already installed.

    To your 2nd question the problem of abusive chat will arise as people will use the cyrillic letters as well - just a matter of access. So, from the company perspective: How do you react to that? Leave it to the players because you have no support staff that can deal with it or do you hire additional employees whereby we're back at the money thing and don't speak about 1-2k dollars.

    Why are you limiting this issue to the map chat? Are you implying that since the majority of people use English in map chats they have no need for their native languages in other chats? Have you ever considered that players who are not proficient in English do not use map chat at all despite being very active in group and guild chats?

    I'm not limiting it to the map chat. Have never said so. It was just an example of how distributed languages are in the quasi open field. Of course people would be more active in guild chats but that - in addition - proves my point with how to handle the abuse which they already can't at the moment with transliterations etc. That's what I meant earlier with open another Pandora's box if you like it or not.

    Petitioners here do not ask for Cyrillic support to flood map chats with Cyrillic. They ask for it to be able to talk to their compatriots in guilds, parties, and squads.

    I've never stated that or seen that as my concern but we also can't deny this either. I mean even know people are doing that but w/e.

    Let me clarify this for you. The support for Cyrillic script would bring new players to the game. Hence, the sheer number of players will increase. The increase in player base might increase the number of chat abuse reports. This does not mean that new players would be responsible for transgressions. It is entirely possible that new players will report abusive behaviour of old players that do not like to see Cyrillic in chats.

    Of course it'll bring more players into the game as will the alliance system in WvW, overhaul and perfect balance in PvP, the hardcore group with new fractals & adjacent CMs and new raids in a shorter release cycle and a fast expansion. As a company you choose the business decision here and ask yourself what is best for the company. I don't want to undermind the idea but I'm sure you'll agree that adding cyrillic support isn't going to increase the revenues that much that it would impact so much. I mean as a good company you do marketing research and monitor the different markets in the world. Maybe Anet is doing that or not, once again we don't know and both of us can't prove that installing the letters would bring an income that really matters to them.

    I encourage you to re-read your own statements. I also believe that it would be easier fo you to keep track of the argument if you did not delete nested quotes.

    I don't need to. My point is still the same and I don't have brought in any inconsistencies in my former posts.

    Two wrongs do not make it right.

    Of course, but we can put that on a very long list of things in GW2 as well. I mean I don't want to sound harsh and you should keep "fighting" or arguing for the idea but it doesn't mean that this proposal has any higher value than of others in the game. At least I don't see it.

    I am not here to speculate about ArenaNet's decisions and reasoning for them. Neither I have sufficient information for that nor I am interested in that. I am here to support the petition of over 40 000 people who ask for a small quality of life update. I also strongly believe that games marketed to the EU should not deprive EU citizens of communication in their native languages (e.g. Bulgaria is an EU member and uses Cyrillic script).

    That's fine as I would do with petitions I strongly adhere to. But on the other hand I'm playing this game for 6,5 years now and know about how hard and annoying it is to handle the lack of communication from their side and in the long run we have a clearer picture of why that is because it all comes back to: They don't have the capacities, the work force, as I mentioned earlier also not the competence (example is dungeons because the developers are long gone plus there is definitely code that must not be touched according to Nike from DnT and other sources) and that's why I post in threads like these to explain players that aren't as long as others here why their idea could be failing or be neglected.
    I mean, look at the actual template drama because that's the best example right now in front of us. They got feedback four weeks ago from the more dedicated player base that is active on reddit and in the forums. They thanked for the feedback, changed nothing, shipped out the templates and opened another feedback thread. Are you wondering why more 50% of the top reddit posts are now template related? I'm not. But that's how it's going in GW2 and to come back to the idea of this petition I just doubt that this can be solved by them easily and if you ask me why the deductive answer is: Because they would already have delivered it to you. (That doesn't mean you should stop, on the contrary but people should stop attacking us for pointing out the functional system here. It's neither an insult or an opposition to your idea.)

    We definitely are off-topic but luckily for you this keeps the thread up in the forums which should be your intention. :)

    Edit:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Considering that EU/NA GW2 chats support Korean and Traditional Chinese and that they show correct punctuation and a correct number of spaces for Cyrillic-based languages this whole issue might boil down to fonts. Speech bubbles also correctly render Korean and Traditional Chinese and display spaces for Cyrillic letters, so there is no problem here.

    This was discussed in this thread earlier. You can search for relevant posts if you are interested in more details.

    The asian market is a lot bigger and a very important one for NCSoft because they are an asian company from South Korea. Of course they have an interest to deliver to their next markets in their surroundings, especially to the chinese market.

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  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @yoni.7015 said:
    Bulgaria is one country out of 27 in the European Union! Then why you don’t advocate for Greek alphabet as well?

    Don't I? I encourage you to re-familiarise yourself with this thread. I was one of the first people in this thread to suggest full UTF support in GW2 chats that would also mean support for Greek.

    There is no law that says that games have to include all alphabets used in the European Union.

    There is no law that says that people have to be kind to other people but it might be a nice thing if they did.

  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572
    Pardon my frustration, I am absolutely lost in your argument.

    Earlier you said this:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff

    I asked you this:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?
    Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

    Your answer was this:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    They don't have support for Polish or Swedish. That's the point here.

    I clarified what I meant by support in case there had been a misunderstanding:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    You answered:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    That doesn't play any role in this case and has no relevance to the topic.

    I reinstated my initial question reminding why Polish and Swedish are relevant in this case:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Wow... You said that addition of support for Cyrillic script in chats would require hiring support teams for chat moderation. I asked you why is it necessary for Cyrillic-based languages while it is not done for Latin-based languages. And now you are saying that it is irrelevant that Polish and Swedish do not have dedicated support teams despite being fully supported in chats.

    So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and conflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?

    Please note that you answered this to another person in this thread:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    The next subsets are german, spain and french (I personally don't know about the chinese market and I guess no one knows here) and Arenanet have people for them in their staff. So, for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff

    ?? who support now latin-cyrillic ? no one ? so why should be hire new support stuff if people write cyrillic instead latin-cyrillic???

    Yes, no one. So, they don't release the demon of enlarging the potential pool of diverse insults and stick with that. It's a rational and financial situation overall.

    This is a direct acknowledgement by you that there is no moderation and conflict resolution for Cyrillic-based languages that are currently used in GW2 chats via transliteration.

    You answered with the following to my question 'So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and conflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?':

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Wow... You said that addition of support for Cyrillic script in chats would require hiring support teams for chat moderation. I asked you why is it necessary for Cyrillic-based languages while it is not done for Latin-based languages. And now you are saying that it is irrelevant that Polish and Swedish do not have dedicated support teams despite being fully supported in chats.

    So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and conflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?

    You are quite misinformed. There is support for chat moderation. English, German, French and Spanish speaking support but there isn't a dedicated support for Polish and Swedish people as far as I know. They have to use the English one which is already installed.

    To your 2nd question the problem of abusive chat will arise as people will use the cyrillic letters as well - just a matter of access. So, from the company perspective: How do you react to that? Leave it to the players because you have no support staff that can deal with it or do you hire additional employees whereby we're back at the money thing and don't speak about 1-2k dollars.

    ========
    You are not answering my question. You are dodging it.

    It seems, however, that you are implying that if people are allowed to type in their native script it will lead to an increase in abusive behaviours in chats. This conclusion is based on these words which are the answer to my question specifying that people still write in their native languages in GW2 chats using transliteration:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    the problem of abusive chat will arise as people will use the cyrillic letters as well - just a matter of access.

    I wonder if you can support this claim with facts and/or research. As it is now I find it to be quite problematic and somewhat xenophobic.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    @Vinceman.4572
    Pardon my frustration, I am absolutely lost in your argument.

    Earlier you said this:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff

    I asked you this:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?
    Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

    Your answer was this:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    They don't have support for Polish or Swedish. That's the point here.

    I clarified what I meant by support in case there had been a misunderstanding:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    You answered:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

    That doesn't play any role in this case and has no relevance to the topic.

    I reinstated my initial question reminding why Polish and Swedish are relevant in this case:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Wow... You said that addition of support for Cyrillic script in chats would require hiring support teams for chat moderation. I asked you why is it necessary for Cyrillic-based languages while it is not done for Latin-based languages. And now you are saying that it is irrelevant that Polish and Swedish do not have dedicated support teams despite being fully supported in chats.

    So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and conflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?

    Please note that you answered this to another person in this thread:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    The next subsets are german, spain and french (I personally don't know about the chinese market and I guess no one knows here) and Arenanet have people for them in their staff. So, for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff

    ?? who support now latin-cyrillic ? no one ? so why should be hire new support stuff if people write cyrillic instead latin-cyrillic???

    Yes, no one. So, they don't release the demon of enlarging the potential pool of diverse insults and stick with that. It's a rational and financial situation overall.

    This is a direct acknowledgement by you that there is no moderation and conflict resolution for Cyrillic-based languages that are currently used in GW2 chats via transliteration.

    You answered with the following to my question 'So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and conflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?':

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Wow... You said that addition of support for Cyrillic script in chats would require hiring support teams for chat moderation. I asked you why is it necessary for Cyrillic-based languages while it is not done for Latin-based languages. And now you are saying that it is irrelevant that Polish and Swedish do not have dedicated support teams despite being fully supported in chats.

    So, would you be so kind to elaborate why languages that use Cyrillic alphabets would need chat moderation and conflict resolution teams after the implementation of Cyrillic in chats, but do not need it now despite being used via transliteration?

    You are quite misinformed. There is support for chat moderation. English, German, French and Spanish speaking support but there isn't a dedicated support for Polish and Swedish people as far as I know. They have to use the English one which is already installed.

    To your 2nd question the problem of abusive chat will arise as people will use the cyrillic letters as well - just a matter of access. So, from the company perspective: How do you react to that? Leave it to the players because you have no support staff that can deal with it or do you hire additional employees whereby we're back at the money thing and don't speak about 1-2k dollars.

    ========
    You are not answering my question. You are dodging it.

    It seems, however, that you are implying that if people are allowed to type in their native script it will lead to an increase in abusive behaviours in chats. This conclusion is based on these words which are the answer to my question specifying that people still write in their native languages in GW2 chats using transliteration:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    the problem of abusive chat will arise as people will use the cyrillic letters as well - just a matter of access.

    I wonder if you can support this claim with facts and/or research. As it is now I find it to be quite problematic and somewhat xenophobic.

    What is xenophobic about saying that abusive behavior will grow when more people have better access to the chat? You should not use these words frivolous. I mean we already had people in this thread telling other people wo had a different opinion that they are like a German dictator.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    You are not answering my question. You are dodging it.

    No, I'm not dodging anything. I have explained my view several times now

    • We have a status in which several languages can be dealt with. In EU this is german, french, spanish and of course english.
    • If people insult in those languages Arenanet can take action because they already have support staff for that. That is verified for all those 4 languages.
    • As far as I know there is no staff for Swedish, Polish or any other language. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    • If players are abusive in other than the above mentioned 4 languages it's nearly impossible for the support to sanction it. This is crucial but negligible because players in the EU are predominantly using the English language. Especially scandinavian countries are very well-educated in the English language.
    • In addition with these 4 languages the EU market is mostly covered because the relevant markets can be served via those 4 languages.
    • I know it's a bit unfair to say the others are not that relevant but that's where the business a.k.a. the most money sits and very likely the biggest communities. (That's something you discover with market research and where do you think as a company you should invest in. That'll be different from product to product etc.).

    • If you bring in another substantial crowd, let's say the russian speaking community, which could be indeed impactful in my opinion my personal view is, and that's what I'm saying, it's on me, it would be far better to install a support team of russian speaking employees because a lot of those who are using English would definitely swap to their mother tongue of course.
    • Without those you have no control over abusive elements regarding chats.
    • Now you can say: But we can already do this with latin cyrillic.
    • Yes, you can but as you all wrote: It's cumbersome and according to the map chats (that's why it is relevant and a good hint) you never read latin cyrillic.
    • This is why I think Arenanet is avoiding to install it. I never said it is the reason but it would make sense for me.
    • It'll be a business decision about installing proper support because either it is needed or not.
    • If not, and that's what I was also writing before: Why haven't they already implemented the font?
    • There must be a reason for it and in the past it was always every connection to financial investments.

    It seems, however, that you are implying that if people are allowed to type in their native script it will lead to an increase in abusive behaviours in chats. This conclusion is based on these words which are the answer to my question specifying that people still write in their native languages in GW2 chats using transliteration:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    the problem of abusive chat will arise as people will use the cyrillic letters as well - just a matter of access.

    I wonder if you can support this claim with facts and/or research. As it is now I find it to be quite problematic and somewhat xenophobic.

    No, I just said if you add another language and another one and another one you are expanding a potential pool for abusive chats you cannot control (I never stated that a certain community is more toxic than the other. People are people.) That is what was explained by the video of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver with the topic about Facebook and its struggle in Myanmar with hate speech earlier on in this thread.

    If these points are irrational to you, well, that's not my type of beer. I would have thought from the beginning that the russian (speaking) market is a potential big market with meaningful growth rates. At least that's what I learned from business and management studies at university. Since I'm not into the gaming industry I can't specifically tell if that's the case here as well but overall the Eastern Europe and Russia have an increased growth of their middle classes.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    No, I just said if you add another language and another one and another one you are expanding a potential pool for abusive chats you cannot control (I never stated that a certain community is more toxic than the other. People are people.) That is what was explained by the video of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver with the topic about Facebook and its struggle in Myanmar with hate speech earlier on in this thread.

    If these points are irrational to you, well, that's not my type of beer. I would have thought from the beginning that the russian (speaking) market is a potential big market with meaningful growth rates. At least that's what I learned from business and management studies at university. Since I'm not into the gaming industry I can't specifically tell if that's the case here as well but overall the Eastern Europe and Russia have an increased growth of their middle classes.

    That's not really a very important issue, since they'll already have policies regarding how they handle reports of language they don't support, which includes transliterated Cyrillic. Facebook's entire product is user communication, often involving real-world issues - GW2's is not. And if an increase in moderation problems was more important to ANet than an increase in players, the simplest way to solve that problem would be getting rid of all the players.

    It's not a moderation issue, and it's not a technical difficulty issue. If there's any reason why ANet don't have wider character set support beyond not getting around to implementing it, it's going to be a concern about how players perceive supporting the character set in chat when there's no support in the user interface or game content.

  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    You are not answering my question. You are dodging it.

    No, I'm not dodging anything. I have explained my view several times now

    • We have a status in which several languages can be dealt with. In EU this is german, french, spanish and of course english.
    • If people insult in those languages Arenanet can take action because they already have support staff for that. That is verified for all those 4 languages.
    • As far as I know there is no staff for Swedish, Polish or any other language. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    • If players are abusive in other than the above mentioned 4 languages it's nearly impossible for the support to sanction it. This is crucial but negligible because players in the EU are predominantly using the English language. Especially scandinavian countries are very well-educated in the English language.

    Is there any data to support this claim?

    • In addition with these 4 languages the EU market is mostly covered because the relevant markets can be served via those 4 languages.
    • I know it's a bit unfair to say the others are not that relevant but that's where the business a.k.a. the most money sits and very likely the biggest communities. (That's something you discover with market research and where do you think as a company you should invest in. That'll be different from product to product etc.).

    • If you bring in another substantial crowd, let's say the russian speaking community, which could be indeed impactful in my opinion my personal view is, and that's what I'm saying, it's on me, it would be far better to install a support team of russian speaking employees because a lot of those who are using English would definitely swap to their mother tongue of course.

    Am I correct in understanding that your argument is based on assumption that Cyrillic support in chat only (no localisation, no technical support, no conflict resolution, etc) will dramatically increase the number of players whose native languages use Cyrillic script?

    • Without those you have no control over abusive elements regarding chats.
    • Now you can say: But we can already do this with latin cyrillic.
    • Yes, you can but as you all wrote: It's cumbersome and according to the map chats (that's why it is relevant and a good hint) you never read latin cyrillic.

    Are you suggesting that people who do not use map chat now will suddenly start using map chat after addition of the Cyrillic script support? Or are you suggesting that there are very few people in the game who would benefit from the Cyrillic script support?

    I also wonder why you are avoiding talking about guild, group, or squad chats. Are you implying that if people tend to use English in map chats they do not use their native languages for group or guild communications?

    • This is why I think Arenanet is avoiding to install it. I never said it is the reason but it would make sense for me.
    • It'll be a business decision about installing proper support because either it is needed or not.
    • If not, and that's what I was also writing before: Why haven't they already implemented the font?
    • There must be a reason for it and in the past it was always every connection to financial investments.

    It seems, however, that you are implying that if people are allowed to type in their native script it will lead to an increase in abusive behaviours in chats. This conclusion is based on these words which are the answer to my question specifying that people still write in their native languages in GW2 chats using transliteration:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    the problem of abusive chat will arise as people will use the cyrillic letters as well - just a matter of access.

    I wonder if you can support this claim with facts and/or research. As it is now I find it to be quite problematic and somewhat xenophobic.

    No, I just said if you add another language and another one and another one you are expanding a potential pool for abusive chats you cannot control (I never stated that a certain community is more toxic than the other. People are people.) That is what was explained by the video of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver with the topic about Facebook and its struggle in Myanmar with hate speech earlier on in this thread.

    Somehow I doubt that GW2 could ever play the same role as Facebook in promoting hate speech, but let's roll with it.

    Would you agree that in order to reduce the potential for abusive chats ArenaNet should remove diacritics and special characters that are not used in English, French, Spanish, and German?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sure if we cant use åäö then a a o will be just as good or swedish, danish, norwegian and polish people will just use english.

    Only time I seen these letters being used is if a country specific guild was recruiting btw.

  • Lara Kroft Rus.3954Lara Kroft Rus.3954 Member ✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:

    I am not here to speculate about ArenaNet's decisions and reasoning for them. Neither I have sufficient information for that nor I am interested in that. I am here to support the petition of over 40 000 people who ask for a small quality of life update. I also strongly believe that games marketed to the EU should not deprive EU citizens of communication in their native languages (e.g. Bulgaria is an EU member and uses Cyrillic script).

    Я тоже, её подписывал, так что в их числе.

    @ "yoni.7015" said:
    I would say they did not implement it because it is not worth the time and the money because the benefit would not be significant. The player base who would need Cyrillic ingame is too small. And in EU server most use English for that Latin alphabet is enough.

    As for the player base, this is a very controversial statement. Now they may be few, while there is no Cyrillic alphabet and localization, and when this is done, then the ratio Latin players and Cyrillic players can be 50/50.

    @ "Vinceman.4572" said:

    >

    Again: What do you think of the reason why they did not do this for 7 years of the game? You do not believe that it is money, you do not believe that it is a code or opportunities of developers. What is it then, in your opinion, because there is nothing left, imho.

    >

    Already answered that: I think it's due to money reasons. Maybe it could also be due to capacity issues and/or priority reasons which - in the end - is basically a money reason.

    >

    I don’t know, you played the original game or immediately switched to GW -2.
    So, in the first one there was Cyrillic and localization, and ANET did not complain about money or other problems.

    @ "Vinceman.4572" said:

    >

    I already answered to this in previous posts before. Maybe you read them carefully (again).

    >

    And Wrong Device. 3014 made a good point: At least in Europe nowadays lots of people are internationally educated so to speak they learned English in school, college and university and are able to communicate with it. Sure, for older people this could be a hurdle for example we have players in the german forum in the age of 50-60 and they haven't learned english or refuse to deal with it. From my point of view it's critical on the one hand I think everyone should be involved in a decent manner on the other hand I think that we are playing an online game from an american company so I can't expect that they are able to cater everything to the customer in the abroad.

    >

    @Wrong Device.3014 said:

    It's not 80s. Most eastern "cyrillic" european players know basic English. It's not something cool or outstanding.

    And why only Germany ?? I was born in 1976. Under the USSR, English was the language of the elite; it was taught by the children of diplomats and ministers and officers of one organization.
    In the 90s, it began to be widely used by corrupt officials and crooks.
    And in these years, learning English, is to equate yourself to them .... And now to learn it late, memory just does not allow ((

    @ "lare.5129" said:

    >

    One point for non-Cyrillic: if Cyrillic-it is easy to understand that these are not random letters.

    >

    That's right, the text will become easily recognizable, as the broadcast confuses the players.
    Some need to understand the English text, or broadcast, which must be transferred to the Cyrillic alphabet.
    And for other players, something is not clear in Latin. what is perceived as spam.

    @ "Ben K.6238" said:

    @ "Vinceman.4572" said:
    But I ask you one question: How often do you read transliterations in the official map chats (not group, squad or anything else)? I'm on EU and I must tell you: Almost never. People are mostly using the english language to communicate on the EU servers. Of course I can't speak for NA servers, although it would surprise me if the population of russian speaking players would be bigger than on EU.

    >

    I don't think I've ever seen anyone speaking Russian on the NA servers (aside from the English speakers saying "cyka blyat" as a joke). I have seen frequent WvW map chat in Korean though, and occasionally Spanish, Portuguese and Tagalog. I've seen a few recruitment messages from DB guilds in traditional Chinese but haven't actually seen anyone use it to communicate.

    >

    English is by far the most common language used for general communication though, with Korean occasionally taking over in late night WvW.

    I don’t chat at all in the game’s chat, as it’s hard for me to distinguish English from “Russian” Latin. And the translation of the “Russian” Latin into Cyrillic requires more time from me than its reading.

    @ "Ol Nick. 2518" said:

    >

    You mistakenly believe that people who can’t type their own alphabet use English in chat rooms. They are not. They use what is called transliteration, that is, they use Latin letters to represent the sounds of their native language. In any case, the introduction of a Cyrillic script will greatly simplify the control and moderation of the chat, since the automatic translation software does not work well with transliterations.

    >

    There may be more chat abuse reports, but this will be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, right?

    >

    I completely agree.

    And yes. Here and in the neighboring remote branch, stereotypes sounded, proto, what will happen if there are many speakers of the Cyrillic alphabet, including Russians, in this game.
    Here's a video of Canadian travel bloggers about their trip to Russia. In the video, the original language. I think this will explain to you that fears are greatly exaggerated. After the trip, they expose false stereotypes.

  • @Saniyah.1984 said:

    @noviiparen.8163 said:
    Hello from Russia, My friends!

    In this video, the Russian-speaking gaming community of Guild Wars 2 request ArenaNet to start supporting Cyrillic letters in the game. I know that these problems not only Russian players , but also many other countries. Unfortunately, I cannot be responsible for everyone, but I can be responsible for those with whom I play. Do not remain indifferent to our problem and support our appeal!

    https://youtu.be/xX6EQSBJbkA

    How much will you pay?

    Pay for what?

  • Wrong Device.3014Wrong Device.3014 Member ✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:

    @Wrong Device.3014 said:

    It's not 80s. Most eastern "cyrillic" european players know basic English. It's not something cool or outstanding.

    And why only Germany ?? I was born in 1976. Under the USSR, English was the language of the elite; it was taught by the children of diplomats and ministers and officers of one organization.
    In the 90s, it began to be widely used by corrupt officials and crooks.
    And in these years, learning English, is to equate yourself to them .... And now to learn it late, memory just does not allow ((

    (Don't know why you mention Germany... Maybe smth from previous posts, I didn't read all thread.)

    What are you talking about? In USSR foreign languages were taught in almost all schools starting at least from 4-5th grade (english, french etc.). Of course it was on primitive level and teachers were not perfect. But stll... If you wanted, you could get decent level of English. So it's a question of eagerness to learn, and not of possibility to learn. I was born in USSR too btw, in 1975.

    I don't care whether Anet is going to add cyrillic support or not. It's not relevant to me and doesn't affect my gameplay.
    The only thing that concerns me is that eastern europeans, especially from post-USSR, are shown here as if we're uneducated savages from concrete jungle. It's just not true. Everyone could learn english, it wasn't forbidden or something.

    Sorry for off-topic.

  • @Wrong Device.3014 , About Germany wrote "Vinceman.4572", a link to his post, just above the link to yours.
    My answer is to both of you.

    I am born in 1976. In Moscow, there may have been schools with English. At the school where I studied, only in 2016 appeared.
    Why did not learn English in the 90s, I already wrote. This lack of teaching (wrote above) and in those years, I perceived English as the language spoken by the Russian mafia that robbed our country.
    And with German, at school I had big problems, because of the problem with memorizing words.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:
    @Wrong Device.3014 , About Germany wrote "Vinceman.4572", a link to his post, just above the link to yours.
    My answer is to both of you.

    I am born in 1976. In Moscow, there may have been schools with English. At the school where I studied, only in 2016 appeared.
    Why did not learn English in the 90s, I already wrote. This lack of teaching (wrote above) and in those years, I perceived English as the language spoken by the Russian mafia that robbed our country.
    And with German, at school I had big problems, because of the problem with memorizing words.

    So it seems that is an individual case that you are not able to speak English, which is by the way a very important language in our days, and that there are people in Russia who can speak English and don’t necessarily need Cyrillic ingame.

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