Every class loses to condi damage, condi is too easy to apply/spam — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Every class loses to condi damage, condi is too easy to apply/spam

There is simply not enough cleanse or ways to deal with condition damage in this game, not to mention that they are not actually DoT like in other games ( damage over time) but they actually burst you down 100-0 like any other power build, even more damage than 1 shot meme specs . Every class in this game has a losing match up against condi damage, necro is probably the only class that can sustain vs condis due to high health pool and transfers but it still loses to condi mesmer/ condi thief because of superior mobility.

When people say " use more condi clear in your build" , that is simply not an effective way of dealing with condis, you re losing on tons of damage utilities or traits and stunbreaks just to be able to cleanse 1 more time before they reapply all the conditions again and you re dead but lived 5 seconds longer while sacrificing alot of your damage and stunbreaks utilities.

its too easy to reapply condi damage, condi builds dont have long cooldowns, they can reapply everything in a matter for seconds contrary to power builds. If I get bursted by a power build I know their skills are on CD and im safe for a certain duration but its not the case with condis.

Also another very important thing that makes conditions overpowered and superior to power builds in 1v1 is the fact that even if you heal for 20k, it dosent matter if you have 20 stacks of burn on you, because your entire heal just got negated. After you heal from power damage you actually recover health and not lose it all again like condi damage does. Not to mention poison that negates healing even further.

Only reason why conditions arent perceived as totally game breaking ( yet) its because power damage is still more effective in a 5v5 scenario it kills quicker than condis when it comes to team fighting because in 5v5 there is more overall group cleanse and boons but in small scale scenario like 1v1 or 2v2, condi damage is totally broken. Theres a reason why weaver/ condi mesmer are completely uncontested when it comes to 1v1 and even condi thief now that can 1v1 like a side noder and kill people like a roamer too.

Can we actually make conditions damage over time instead of burst damage? Capping condi to 10 stacks in pvp only will be a good start already, and also capping the might to 10 stacks to balance it out with power damage and reduce power creep. Then from there they can start shaving some sustain from bunker builds if we dont have the damage to kill stuff after the changes.

Comments

  • well i can play rev with enough condicleanse and heal without even use of ventari

  • Remove condis from auto attacks and reduce auto attack damage across the board by 50%. Problem solved.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    is this a troll? not sure

    They're doing that thing people always do where they conflate a condition build they don't like (mesmer and/or thief, whichever killed the OP last I assume) with all condition builds.

    and then the suggestions come, lets remove condi dmg from autoattacks! thats the problem!, yes! make mirage scepter deal 200 dmg.
    or when they stack condi cleanse and think they should autowin against condi, sorry sugarcube, you still need to know how to use it !

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    Hm, my condi engi sure has some trouble with application.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @otto.5684 said:
    I do not understand these threads. By all means and measures condi damage in sPvP is way under performing with very few expansions. The only top meta condi build is scourge (maybe condi thief). If anything, most classes need a major buff to condi intensity.

    Under Performing?

    Only spec i can see "under performing" would be Core Engi, and maybe Ranger to a degree.

    Necro- I don't need to say anything but scourge.
    Ele- Fire Weaver does some hella good damage and melts people down.
    Mesmer- Condi Mirage is kitten busted and it's been Slightly touched by removing the Immobilize from a trait line however it's still really good for a side noder.
    Firebrand- Condi Spam fire brand can spam so much burn and a kitten of other kitten that the spec itself is getting played a lot by players and actually gaining rating from this dumb build because of the Huge Aoe condi spam it has.
    Condi Thief- Probably the dumbest spec i have ever played, This Spec is so stupid that it makes no sense at all. You get rewarded to SPAM dodge because your able to apply conditions for each time you dodge. This isn't including the possibly of what weapon set your using in order to make this even more aids. We Also Have Condi DE which is also very very aids to play against but not as OP as Condi DD.

    I can name a few more but come on my dude Condi IS not under performing in anyway at all. Matter Fact it's OVER performing and the ONLY reason why some other spec are failing at being good with "condi" specs is because of their out dated utility skills and possible the limitation on their core traits/weapons. Some of these spec also don't get rewarded for such passive game-play.

    Fyi - This is based on Rank point of view only, and Noting more. Most of these Spec are over performing because it rewards bad players to spam certain abilities to earn free kills. Most of these Spec would probably never see a day in an actual "meta" however that does not mean it isn't good.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ouk.5914 said:
    snip

    Condi meta builds:
    Daredevil
    Weaver
    Scourge (dead tomorrow)
    Mirage

    Power meta builds:
    Thief
    Herald
    Soulbeast
    Holosmith
    Firebrand
    Maybe Reaper

    ??

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Ouk.5914 said:
    snip

    Condi meta builds:
    Daredevil
    Weaver
    Scourge (dead tomorrow)
    Mirage

    Power meta builds:
    Thief
    Herald
    Soulbeast
    Holosmith
    Firebrand
    Maybe Reaper

    ??

    read the post and try again.

    Sage Brand can be added to the "condi meta", if your going to add reaper as "power" meta then we might as well add Core necro to the "meta" if that's been getting played fairly well in rank. Based on Na btw not on Eu.

    The Only Condi Spec I see in rank ALL day long are as follow:

    Condi Thief
    Condi Mirage
    Core Necro
    Scrouge
    Fire weaver
    SageBrand(Dps firebrand)

    those are the Only Condi Specs I see in rank ALL day long, Then you have the few Warrior, Holo, Ranger And Rev being played. More Holo and Rev then Warriors/Rangers by a long shot however you'll still see some good warriors and maybe rangers from time to time.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ouk.5914 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Ouk.5914 said:

    Sage Brand can be added to the "condi meta", if your going to add reaper as "power" meta

    Nope. Reaper is a whole level above sagebrand (which is only chosen for 2nd fb).

    then we might as well add Core necro to the "meta"

    What?

    if that's been getting played fairly well in rank.

    Ranked lol, was talking about ATs.

    Based on Na btw not on Eu.

    I am talking based on EU.

    Rest is not even worth mentioning.

  • condi is fine as long as it isn't combined with too much kite or passive/ active defenses.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Ouk.5914 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Ouk.5914 said:

    Sage Brand can be added to the "condi meta", if your going to add reaper as "power" meta

    Nope. Reaper is a whole level above sagebrand (which is only chosen for 2nd fb).

    then we might as well add Core necro to the "meta"

    What?

    if that's been getting played fairly well in rank.

    Ranked lol, was talking about ATs.

    Based on Na btw not on Eu.

    I am talking based on EU.

    Rest is not even worth mentioning.

    why would you talk about At's? At's are noting but Meme's at the moment and absolutely no one even signs up for them anymore due to Monthly being gone......

    Why would u say reaper above Sage brand? IN what terms exactly? Not only does Sagebrand hard counters reaper but can do exactly anything what reaper can offer maybe even more.....reaper is pretty kitten kitten.

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭

    Condis too strong in 1v1, too weak in teamfight (unless paired with some corrupts).
    Totally in line with the way Anet is balancing things. Not balancing in the middle, but making it oscillate between two extremes.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Burn Dps is getting pretty extreme especially in the case of Weavers/Guardians. Not even biased cause I main Weaver. I have no idea why Anet would buff primoridal stance to make it more spammy. Plenty of things about weaver could receive a buff, but Primordial stance was already commonly used and accustomed to.

    Sage/Firebrand is the other side of the coin. Spamming fire tomes until the opponent melts. Condi is supposed to be about damage overtime, but Fire Condi literally burns through your health in an instant with enough stacks. The problem is, attaining such high stacks with these builds is easy, and spammy.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    condi is fine as long as it isn't combined with too much kite or passive/ active defenses.

    This very much so. It's the difference of core burn guard vs sagebrand.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    OP: Adapt and overcome

    Your refusal to bring more, despite what it means to your build means you refuse to adapt. I have little to no cleanses myself and despite my unwillingnness to change my build itself, I have adapted my playstyle to overcome. Doesnt work 100% of the time, however thats on me when it doesn't.

    Maybe if you tell ya your build and such someone here may be able to assist

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Every class loses to power damage too.

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Core guardian, Firebrand, conversion Holo, elixir Holo, DH, scrapper, water Weaver, bear stance soulbeast.
    These classes are borderline immune to most Condi builds. The only ones they can die to are either hybrid or have an insane amount of Condi spread.

    That being said, both Condi thief and mirage have incredibly stupid ways of applying said conditions. Mirage can kite around dodging to proc ih for insanely wide Condi stacks. And we all know the issues with Condi thief atm.

    How is elixer holo immune to condi? The only cleansing in this build is Healing turret, prismatic converter and rune of leadership.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    because of this I started playing mallyx again with 100% energy and resis spam for grp

  • @H a z Z y.1762 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Core guardian, Firebrand, conversion Holo, elixir Holo, DH, scrapper, water Weaver, bear stance soulbeast.
    These classes are borderline immune to most Condi builds. The only ones they can die to are either hybrid or have an insane amount of Condi spread.

    That being said, both Condi thief and mirage have incredibly stupid ways of applying said conditions. Mirage can kite around dodging to proc ih for insanely wide Condi stacks. And we all know the issues with Condi thief atm.

    How is elixer holo immune to condi? The only cleansing in this build is Healing turret, prismatic converter and rune of leadership.

    Elixir Holo concerts 4 condis into boons every 10 seconds. Removes 2 per 15 seconds with turret and convert 3 more every 30-60 seconds depending on if you run power wrench or not.

    It also has perma vigor to dodge a lot of the application. If all above isn't enough, go conversion Holo and HLA.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @H a z Z y.1762 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Core guardian, Firebrand, conversion Holo, elixir Holo, DH, scrapper, water Weaver, bear stance soulbeast.
    These classes are borderline immune to most Condi builds. The only ones they can die to are either hybrid or have an insane amount of Condi spread.

    That being said, both Condi thief and mirage have incredibly stupid ways of applying said conditions. Mirage can kite around dodging to proc ih for insanely wide Condi stacks. And we all know the issues with Condi thief atm.

    How is elixer holo immune to condi? The only cleansing in this build is Healing turret, prismatic converter and rune of leadership.

    Elixir Holo concerts 4 condis into boons every 10 seconds. Removes 2 per 15 seconds with turret and convert 3 more every 30-60 seconds depending on if you run power wrench or not.

    It also has perma vigor to dodge a lot of the application. If all above isn't enough, go conversion Holo and HLA.

    Rifle Holo Get's gutted by any and any good Condi Mirage player at all. This Entire match up is In favor of Condi Mirage Over Rifle holo.

    Helio And Naru Agree that this isn't a favorable match up at all for Holosmith unless the Mirage is just really bad and unable to properly land his or her skills. This exact same thing vs Condi Thief which is also favor in condi thief over holo.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    This must be a complete troll. There's so much cleanse in the game it's ridiculous.

  • @Ouk.5914 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @H a z Z y.1762 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Core guardian, Firebrand, conversion Holo, elixir Holo, DH, scrapper, water Weaver, bear stance soulbeast.
    These classes are borderline immune to most Condi builds. The only ones they can die to are either hybrid or have an insane amount of Condi spread.

    That being said, both Condi thief and mirage have incredibly stupid ways of applying said conditions. Mirage can kite around dodging to proc ih for insanely wide Condi stacks. And we all know the issues with Condi thief atm.

    How is elixer holo immune to condi? The only cleansing in this build is Healing turret, prismatic converter and rune of leadership.

    Elixir Holo concerts 4 condis into boons every 10 seconds. Removes 2 per 15 seconds with turret and convert 3 more every 30-60 seconds depending on if you run power wrench or not.

    It also has perma vigor to dodge a lot of the application. If all above isn't enough, go conversion Holo and HLA.

    Rifle Holo Get's gutted by any and any good Condi Mirage player at all. This Entire match up is In favor of Condi Mirage Over Rifle holo.

    Helio And Naru Agree that this isn't a favorable match up at all for Holosmith unless the Mirage is just really bad and unable to properly land his or her skills. This exact same thing vs Condi Thief which is also favor in condi thief over holo.

    He didn't state those specific classes. He was talking about Condi overall.
    Engineer has bad matchup against them, not solely because of the Condi spam. Try killing a rifle Holo on Condi engineer. Condi guard or Condi war.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Ouk.5914 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @H a z Z y.1762 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Core guardian, Firebrand, conversion Holo, elixir Holo, DH, scrapper, water Weaver, bear stance soulbeast.
    These classes are borderline immune to most Condi builds. The only ones they can die to are either hybrid or have an insane amount of Condi spread.

    That being said, both Condi thief and mirage have incredibly stupid ways of applying said conditions. Mirage can kite around dodging to proc ih for insanely wide Condi stacks. And we all know the issues with Condi thief atm.

    How is elixer holo immune to condi? The only cleansing in this build is Healing turret, prismatic converter and rune of leadership.

    Elixir Holo concerts 4 condis into boons every 10 seconds. Removes 2 per 15 seconds with turret and convert 3 more every 30-60 seconds depending on if you run power wrench or not.

    It also has perma vigor to dodge a lot of the application. If all above isn't enough, go conversion Holo and HLA.

    Rifle Holo Get's gutted by any and any good Condi Mirage player at all. This Entire match up is In favor of Condi Mirage Over Rifle holo.

    Helio And Naru Agree that this isn't a favorable match up at all for Holosmith unless the Mirage is just really bad and unable to properly land his or her skills. This exact same thing vs Condi Thief which is also favor in condi thief over holo.

    He didn't state those specific classes. He was talking about Condi overall.
    Engineer has bad matchup against them, not solely because of the Condi spam. Try killing a rifle Holo on Condi engineer. Condi guard or Condi war.

    ah correct, sorry assumed we were talking about current condi spec and not fail condi spec like rev/engi.

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