EU Ranked PvP on Core Mantra Mesmer! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

EU Ranked PvP on Core Mantra Mesmer!

shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 9, 2019 in PVP

Hey so this thread is going to be continually updated every week if/when I have time to que on Saturdays/early Sundays. I tanked my rating to plat 1 (1500 + 600 decay) to show that this build works at a variety of skill ranges and will be climbing to the top 30 over the next few weeks if my schedule allows.

Here are the 10 games I've played yesterday. This is raw footage with my mic on so you guys can hear what I'm thinking about as the matches progress. No editing. Wins and losses. Solo que only. The video quality will increase in a few hours/days once youtube finishes processing everything. I also show the scoreboard, my rating, and game history every match.

This is the build I use. I just started playing mantras for the first time a few weeks ago so I'm still relatively new to the playstyle. Also, I'm normally on NA so I'm playing on 6 times my normal ping.

DeleteMantrasPls

Session One - 10 Games (7-3 record)

Playlist

Session Two - 21 Games (11-10 record)

Playlist

  • Game 11 L
  • Game 12 L
  • Game 13 L
  • Game 14 W
  • Game 15 L
  • Game 16 W | Games 11-16 are scuffed off-hour ques. I was playing at like 3 am EST cause I was feeling generous and wanted to donate 55 rating ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 4 games were unwinnable. Teams were perma dead and I couldn't get any value even though I was killing/downing a lot of people.
  • Game 17 W
  • Game 18 W
  • Game 19 L
  • Game 20 W
  • Game 21 W
  • Game 22 W
  • Game 23 W | vs. Flandre Sinid Duo. The only two deaths I had were bad 1v1 matchups against Flandre.

    • First death, I tried to Diversion Flandre to prevent the stealth from Swoop into SSF2 the instant GS4 block ended but it didn't connect, then I cancelled Mirror right before the PBS hit, then my blink bugged out, then my stealth revealed me somehow, then I was in the air and the ping prevented me from using Blurred Frenzy the instant I hit the ground to avoid the Swoop. I could've maybe dazed Flandre with Power Lock if I avoided the Swoop but all of the mishaps resulted in me being unable to get any value out of any of my defensive abilities.
    • Second death I tried to Diversion his heal but it was just out of range (even though I was very close to him), the ping prevented me from Power Locking the maul, then my Blink didn't teleport me the first time I tried to cast it, and the second time I pressed the button to get behind LoS, it shot me into the wall.
  • Game 24 L

  • Game 25 L
  • Game 26 W
  • Game 27 L
  • Game 28 W
  • Game 29 W
  • Game 30 L | Not just in this game but you can see the ping issue several times in these matches. You can clearly see me getting hit mid-dodge during moments like this or this. I also could've blinked away.
  • Game 31 L

Session Three - 16 Games (9-7 record)

Playlist

Session Four - 6 Games (5-1 Record)

Playlist

  • Game 48 W | 14-1 | Sorry I forgot to click 'Record' D:
  • Game 49 W | 12-4 |
  • Game 50 W | 10-0 |
  • Game 51 W | 8-1 |
  • Game 52 L | 6-5 | Team Fed The Whole Game
  • Game 53 W | 12-1 | I accidentally said G52 instead of G53 | Highest Rating Today - 1621

Sessions Five, Six, and Seven - 15 Games (9-6 Record) in 720p HD!

Playlist

  • Game 54 W | 20-0 | 3 Rating (lol)


  • Game 65 L | This match was 4v5. We had a DC at the start so I just sat in base. Don't watch this one, nothing happened. ^^
  • Game 66 W | 13-1 |
  • Game 67 W | 16-1 |
  • Game 68 W | 11-2 | Highest Rating Today - 1662 | Rank 80

<1345

Comments

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime.

    I agree.

    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    Nope, he should play with whatever build he wants. Just vacuuming stuff isn't good, they all work together.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime.

    I agree

    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    Nope, he should play with whatever build he wants. Just vacuuming stuff isn't good, they all work together.

    Seriously, disregard the win ratio I had leading up to the mantra mesmer games. It is completely irrelevant in this discussion. The majority of my games on the EU account are on meme thief builds I'm mess around with for fun.

  • @bravan.3876 said:
    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline and without Massinv. Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    what the hell? might as well tell him to take blink off. we know that its a combo of mantras and survival traits/ skills, but this is about what mantras can do with those survival choices. not taking them only proves that they're necessary for any mes or core mes build to survive. would you rather they nerf mes survival?

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Seriously, disregard the win ratio I had leading up to the mantra mesmer games. It is completely irrelevant in this discussion. The majority of my games on the EU account are on meme thief builds I'm mess around with for fun.

    No I meant I'll just wait and see you become top blabla.

    Also about walking and sword autoing, I'm still not convinced. In game 2, killing FB with autos was a good idea. However, I don't think that mirage would/should die if s/he wasn't kind of bad.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Seriously, disregard the win ratio I had leading up to the mantra mesmer games. It is completely irrelevant in this discussion. The majority of my games on the EU account are on meme thief builds I'm mess around with for fun.

    No I meant I'll just wait and see you become top blabla.

    Also about walking and sword autoing, I'm still not convinced. In game 2, killing FB with autos was a good idea. However, I don't think that mirage would/should die if s/he wasn't kind of bad.

    Okay thank you for clarifying.

    You will see me fighting better opponents as I climb.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline and without Massinv. Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    what the hell? might as well tell him to take blink off. we know that its a combo of mantras and survival traits/ skills, but this is about what mantras can do with those survival choices. not taking them only proves that they're necessary for any mes or core mes build to survive. would you rather they nerf mes survival?

    No it is about complaining about the right things, he could play oneshot Core PU Mesmer without Mantras (at least without Mantra of Distraction) and it would still be an issue because Chaosline PU is the issue. And ofc Mantra of Pain in its current state. The issue is that a build with a defensive traitline still has oneshot dmg by having high disengage mobility from superspeed and good passive boon sustain vs power dmg aside from stealth uptime for days for attacks completely out of nowhere. None of these problems are rly related to Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain but that only secondary not even in the first place).

    That is also the reason why i don't say take blink of, blink is not the issue here in any point of view. A troch stealth in 1200 range +blink inc is totally predictable and this oneshot try can be countered very easy.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime. And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    Imagine caring about someone's rank after the PvP's hay days.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime. And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    By that logic, all builds are just noob killers and we should never nerf anything since pretty much any skilled player on any build can kill poor players and the more skilled you are as a player, the more you can disengage from nearly anything and avoid dying by both through experienced understanding of their skills and how to disengage using terrain as long as you leave early enough outside of Guardian and Scourge at this point. Seriously, this is the dumbest argument.

    Instant cast, animation free, no aim required free damage is philosophically and fundamentally unhealthy in a competitive game mode.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline and without Massinv. Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    what the hell? might as well tell him to take blink off. we know that its a combo of mantras and survival traits/ skills, but this is about what mantras can do with those survival choices. not taking them only proves that they're necessary for any mes or core mes build to survive. would you rather they nerf mes survival?

    No it is about complaining about the right things, he could play oneshot Core PU Mesmer without Mantras (at least without Mantra of Distraction) and it would still be an issue because Chaosline PU is the issue. And ofc Mantra of Pain in its current state. The issue is that a build with a defensive traitline still has oneshot dmg by having high disengage mobility from superspeed and good passive boon sustain vs power dmg aside from stealth uptime for days for attacks completely out of nowhere. None of these problems are rly related to Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain but that only secondary not even in the first place).

    That is also the reason why i don't say take blink of, blink is not the issue here in any point of view. A troch stealth in 1200 range +blink inc is totally predictable and this oneshot try can be countered very easy.

    You can close the same distance with Mirage blinks, jaunts, and sword ambush in the 3s of stealth that you can with walking during the 9s mass invis stealth. It really makes no difference except that Mirage is actually faster at rotating around the map and has more cc. I'm only playing the core build because it's considered the weakest variation of mantra mes (prior to Chrono getting nerfed at least).

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline and without Massinv. Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    what the hell? might as well tell him to take blink off. we know that its a combo of mantras and survival traits/ skills, but this is about what mantras can do with those survival choices. not taking them only proves that they're necessary for any mes or core mes build to survive. would you rather they nerf mes survival?

    No it is about complaining about the right things, he could play oneshot Core PU Mesmer without Mantras (at least without Mantra of Distraction) and it would still be an issue because Chaosline PU is the issue. And ofc Mantra of Pain in its current state. The issue is that a build with a defensive traitline still has oneshot dmg by having high disengage mobility from superspeed and good passive boon sustain vs power dmg aside from stealth uptime for days for attacks completely out of nowhere. None of these problems are rly related to Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain but that only secondary not even in the first place).

    That is also the reason why i don't say take blink of, blink is not the issue here in any point of view. A troch stealth in 1200 range +blink inc is totally predictable and this oneshot try can be countered very easy.

    You can close the same distance with Mirage blinks, jaunts, and sword ambush in the 3s of stealth that you can with walking during the 9s mass invis stealth. It really makes no difference except that Mirage is actually faster at rotating around the map and has more cc. I'm only playing the core build because it's considered the weakest variation of mantra mes (prior to Chrono getting nerfed at least).

    No with only troch stealth on Mirage even with all the cds used you will never come completely out of no where. You cannot stack stealth out of ear shot and visible range with only Torch. I never got oneshotted from a Powermirage with double Mantra in my life when not being brain-afk what was just my fault then. But Chaosline PU Core? Yes i can have problems with that for previously named reasons.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime. And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    By that logic, all builds are just noob killers and we should never nerf anything since pretty much any skilled player on any build can kill poor players and the more skilled you are as a player, the more you can disengage from nearly anything and avoid dying by both through experienced understanding of their skills and how to disengage using terrain as long as you leave early enough outside of Guardian and Scourge at this point. Seriously, this is the dumbest argument.

    Instant cast, animation free, no aim required free damage is philosophically and fundamentally unhealthy in a competitive game mode.

    No Mesmer is known as being insane confusing for new and bad player, the mechanic is not as intuitive as for example Warrior or Guard. Mesmer is a class that needs more skill to play against or at least more knowledge to play against. Illusions are confusing for new ppI. During the confusion effect from clones decrease very hard the moment ppl know how to spot the real player. I mean that is rly common we don't need to argue about that. There is clearly a difference for new/bad player to react to a Mesmer (even with a skillful Mesmer build) than to other classes. That is why showing footage vs decent ppl is even more important to prove anything on Mesmer than on other classes (it is important in general to show footage vs decent player to prove something about buildperformance, sure but for Mesmer even more).

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline and without Massinv. Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    what the hell? might as well tell him to take blink off. we know that its a combo of mantras and survival traits/ skills, but this is about what mantras can do with those survival choices. not taking them only proves that they're necessary for any mes or core mes build to survive. would you rather they nerf mes survival?

    No it is about complaining about the right things, he could play oneshot Core PU Mesmer without Mantras (at least without Mantra of Distraction) and it would still be an issue because Chaosline PU is the issue. And ofc Mantra of Pain in its current state. The issue is that a build with a defensive traitline still has oneshot dmg by having high disengage mobility from superspeed and good passive boon sustain vs power dmg aside from stealth uptime for days for attacks completely out of nowhere. None of these problems are rly related to Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain but that only secondary not even in the first place).

    That is also the reason why i don't say take blink of, blink is not the issue here in any point of view. A troch stealth in 1200 range +blink inc is totally predictable and this oneshot try can be countered very easy.

    You can close the same distance with Mirage blinks, jaunts, and sword ambush in the 3s of stealth that you can with walking during the 9s mass invis stealth. It really makes no difference except that Mirage is actually faster at rotating around the map and has more cc. I'm only playing the core build because it's considered the weakest variation of mantra mes (prior to Chrono getting nerfed at least).

    1. No with only troch stealth on Mirage even with all the cds used you will never come completely out of no where. You cannot stack stealth out of ear shot and visible range with only Torch.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime. And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    By that logic, all builds are just noob killers and we should never nerf anything since pretty much any skilled player on any build can kill poor players and the more skilled you are as a player, the more you can disengage from nearly anything and avoid dying by both through experienced understanding of their skills and how to disengage using terrain as long as you leave early enough outside of Guardian and Scourge at this point. Seriously, this is the dumbest argument.

    Instant cast, animation free, no aim required free damage is philosophically and fundamentally unhealthy in a competitive game mode.

    1. No Mesmer is known as being insane confusing for new and bad player, the mechanic is not as intuitive as for example Warrior or Guard. Mesmer is a class that needs more skill to play against or at least more knowledge to play against. Illusions are confusion for new ppI. During the confusion effect from clone decrease very hard the moment ppl know how to spot the real player. I mean that is rly common we don't need to argue about that. There is clearly a difference for new/bad player to react to a Mesmer (even with a skillful Mesmer build) than to other classes. That is why showing footage vs decent ppl is even more important to prove anything on Mesmer than on other classes (it is important in general to show footage vs decent player to prove soemthign abotu buildperformance, sure but for Mesmer even more).
    1. You can travel the same distance in stealth with the Mirage variant as you can with Mass Invis.
    2. Okay but how does that apply to me? lol... at plat 1 and up everyone should be above average. I started the videos at plat 1 to show the climb up and how the build can perform at a variety of skill ranges. Watch 1v1 tournaments with mantra mesmers in the finals. You'll see the mantra builds 1v1 against other top duelists.
  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline and without Massinv. Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    what the hell? might as well tell him to take blink off. we know that its a combo of mantras and survival traits/ skills, but this is about what mantras can do with those survival choices. not taking them only proves that they're necessary for any mes or core mes build to survive. would you rather they nerf mes survival?

    No it is about complaining about the right things, he could play oneshot Core PU Mesmer without Mantras (at least without Mantra of Distraction) and it would still be an issue because Chaosline PU is the issue. And ofc Mantra of Pain in its current state. The issue is that a build with a defensive traitline still has oneshot dmg by having high disengage mobility from superspeed and good passive boon sustain vs power dmg aside from stealth uptime for days for attacks completely out of nowhere. None of these problems are rly related to Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain but that only secondary not even in the first place).

    That is also the reason why i don't say take blink of, blink is not the issue here in any point of view. A troch stealth in 1200 range +blink inc is totally predictable and this oneshot try can be countered very easy.

    You can close the same distance with Mirage blinks, jaunts, and sword ambush in the 3s of stealth that you can with walking during the 9s mass invis stealth. It really makes no difference except that Mirage is actually faster at rotating around the map and has more cc. I'm only playing the core build because it's considered the weakest variation of mantra mes (prior to Chrono getting nerfed at least).

    1. No with only troch stealth on Mirage even with all the cds used you will never come completely out of no where. You cannot stack stealth out of ear shot and visible range with only Torch.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime. And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    By that logic, all builds are just noob killers and we should never nerf anything since pretty much any skilled player on any build can kill poor players and the more skilled you are as a player, the more you can disengage from nearly anything and avoid dying by both through experienced understanding of their skills and how to disengage using terrain as long as you leave early enough outside of Guardian and Scourge at this point. Seriously, this is the dumbest argument.

    Instant cast, animation free, no aim required free damage is philosophically and fundamentally unhealthy in a competitive game mode.

    1. No Mesmer is known as being insane confusing for new and bad player, the mechanic is not as intuitive as for example Warrior or Guard. Mesmer is a class that needs more skill to play against or at least more knowledge to play against. Illusions are confusion for new ppI. During the confusion effect from clone decrease very hard the moment ppl know how to spot the real player. I mean that is rly common we don't need to argue about that. There is clearly a difference for new/bad player to react to a Mesmer (even with a skillful Mesmer build) than to other classes. That is why showing footage vs decent ppl is even more important to prove anything on Mesmer than on other classes (it is important in general to show footage vs decent player to prove soemthign abotu buildperformance, sure but for Mesmer even more).
    1. You can travel the same distance in stealth with the Mirage variant as you can with Mass Invis.
    2. Okay but how does that apply to me? lol... at plat 1 and up everyone should be above average. I started the videos at plat 1 to show the climb up and how the build can perform at a variety of skill ranges. Watch 1v1 tournaments with mantra mesmers in the finals. You'll see the mantra builds 1v1 against other top duelists.

    1. as said... check edit
    2. Plat1 is super low, since when that is above average ( i mean it might be average now from what is left in the game but it clearly is not and never was decent skill lvl)? Even 10 seasons ago when we had more good players left this was pretty low rating and kind of low skill lvl. It is not even Top 250 in the end, a title every noob can get these days. I mean i could start to analyze your games step by step again and show you how bad the ppl are you are facing most of the time. Like in the first game you clearly Mass Invis your team at matchstart right in their visible and hearing distance and still they just continue walking and waiting for the oneshot. Will never happen to me that a Mesmer will oneshot me there not even the Chaosline PU Mesmer.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As said, we already know that oneshot Mesmer is a good noobkiller, we don't need another low Platinum prove. 1500 is very low, your winration is kinda bad and that with you being carried by Chaosline. Just start showing games when you reach Platinum 3 in EU in peaktime. And if you rly wanna prove Mantras as the problem play without Chaosline (and maybe even without Massinv). Just few tips to make your goal to prove anything a bit more realisic.

    For the record, Mur plays the Mirage variant on NA in the top 10.

    And as already mentioned i always was surprised in NA streams how even high rated ppl in NA and the NA Top player get hit by most obvious bursts.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    Thanks to do the effort of doing vids.
    But what I see is that we said since this thread start :

    • Gold plebs get owned. (Like 70% of the guys who don't react after a 1 sec f3 stun.)
    • Once opponents isn't full zerk gear, you don't one shot them.
    • One shot is far to be 100% reliable (even by taking your ping.).
    • Normal DPS out of burst only with GS is meh considering your gear.
    • It's fun to see how sword 3 is unreliable (clone killed or bugs.).
    • There is literraly nobody focusing you. They let you freecasting all the way, you can be a FA ele it will do exactly the same. In the first 7 vids, there is only a gard and a DH who seems aware of you ...
    • A load of condi on you = dead.

    Want to see the next session where you start be on plat2. Because you are facing things like "double signet mirages" for the moment.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876

    Did you not read what I said? I tanked my rating on purpose with meme thief builds in order to start the climb from P1.

    This whole thread is going to be updated to show how this build works at a VARIETY OF SKILL RANGES.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Thanks to do the effort of doing vids.
    But what I see is that we said since this thread start :

    • Gold plebs get owned. (Like 70% of the guys who don't react after a 1 sec f3 stun.)
    • Once opponents isn't full zerk gear, you don't one shot them.
    • One shot is far to be 100% reliable (even by taking your ping.).
    • Normal DPS out of burst only with GS is meh considering your gear.
    • It's fun to see how sword 3 is unreliable (clone killed or bugs.).
    • There is literraly nobody focusing you. They let you freecasting all the way, you can be a FA ele it will do exactly the same. In the first 7 vids, there is only a gard and a DH who seems aware of you ...
    • A load of condi on you = dead.

    Want to see the next session where you start be on plat2. Because you are facing things like "double signet mirages" for the moment.

    You'll see me fight better opponents as I climb. I actually have a game vs Naru and Helio duo on their mains. Close match. We lost cause of 2 small mistakes and my S3 port bugging out which gave them a free 50 point bell on Capricorn.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876

    Did you not read what I said? I tanked my rating on purpose with meme thief builds in order to start the climb from P1.

    This whole thread is going to be updated to show how this build works at a VARIETY OF SKILL RANGES.

    And i said, you don't need to start from Plat 1, with current matchmaking and population you even face silver/ low gold ppl in Plat1 games so pls... Start showing games when you finally reached Plat 3 and show matches you get matched versus for EU known decent ppl in opponent team in peakhour. You will not prove anything when i can show you why ppl are just bad and that is the only reason they die to you and why you would never oneshot me or any decent player near my lvl with your build in any shown situation and when i just can dismantle your matches with step by step analysis. We both can save a lot of time and effort if you start in Plat 3 and even there you can have onesided matches with pretty low ppl in the other team or your team. That is why i said a high ranking doesn't even prove much about a build but at least more than low rated Plat1/2 gameplay.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    (...) I tanked my rating to plat 1 (1500 + 600 decay) to show that this build works at a variety of skill ranges (...)

    Decay doesn't affect matchmaking.

    Other than that, appreciate the effort and am curious on the outcome.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    (...) I tanked my rating to plat 1 (1500 + 600 decay) to show that this build works at a variety of skill ranges (...)

    Decay doesn't affect matchmaking.

    Would be shocking if he didn't know that tbh... but would fit to the bronze propaganda lvl of most (not all) of his claims

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    (...) I tanked my rating to plat 1 (1500 + 600 decay) to show that this build works at a variety of skill ranges (...)

    Decay doesn't affect matchmaking.

    Other than that, appreciate the effort and am curious on the outcome.

    Yeah I know that. Matchmaking was using my actual rating.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    I was still getting 10+ kills every game, won 1v1s, 1vXs, didn't die more than 3 times iirc, etc. etc. I might go down occasionally but I don't really think I lost any straight fights unless I had no cooldowns left coming away from/with multiple people on me.

  • Itz Jay.8941Itz Jay.8941 Member ✭✭✭

    Am I the only one who didn't watch because its in 480p? lol

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Itz Jay.8941 said:
    Am I the only one who didn't watch because its in 480p? lol

    That's how youtube works. I uploaded the videos in 720p but it takes a few days for the videos to finish processing.

  • @bravan.3876 said:
    And ofc Mantra of Pain in its current state.

    i'll take this and run off. i'm not invested in this thread.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And ofc Mantra of Pain in its current state.

    i'll take this and run off. i'm not invested in this thread.

    We agree in that, no worries.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Itz Jay.8941 said:
    Am I the only one who didn't watch because its in 480p? lol

    That's how youtube works. I uploaded the videos in 720p but it takes a few days for the videos to finish processing.

    480p is dvd quality, its good enough to see what's going on

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • I skipped game 1 becouse he said it has sound issues.
    watched entire game 2, and wow was it dissapointing. the fact that his reliable 1shot no counterplay machine couldnt get him a single "1shot" in silver game... dont feel like watching the rest, just gonna wait for you to rank up and go from there, im curious how its gonna look like after you start playing against good condi thiefs and holos that will reveal you from stealth.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    I cannot tell much about this. I am not a fan of burst builds since you cannot be sure if this was a good day or a good move. Not to mention the clicking sounds X)

    I watched games 3/6/9. I liked that you also think about your allies when you use stealth, it is rare to see that. Seems obvious that you know what to do because you are very mobile and have good priorities when you try to kill/rez someone. Maybe you are too much going on scourges and taking condis? I am not sure, why sometimes do I see you using sword 2 when nothing seems to happen? Legit question if it triggers something I do not know it.

    I have seen that plat 3 arguments so much on the forums but it is just... Lol. If you listen to the forums this is the only way to be good when less than 0.01% of the population is there. After plat 1 you already see good players in your games. I think the problem (based on game 3/6/9) is that I do not see too much pressure put on you (outside of one DH) leaving you free to position yourself and go in and that builds with evades/invuln will be harder to kill when they have better timings.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I skipped game 1 becouse he said it has sound issues.
    watched entire game 2, and wow was it dissapointing. the fact that his reliable 1shot no counterplay machine couldnt get him a single "1shot" in silver game... dont feel like watching the rest, just gonna wait for you to rank up and go from there, im curious how its gonna look like after you start playing against good condi thiefs and holos that will reveal you from stealth.

    My rating is clearly displayed for everyone to see. Decay doesn't affect matchmaking so this was not a silver game, but in fact a platinum one.

    There's also a oneshot at 12 minutes. So, you're wrong again.

    This thread will be updated with all of the games I play as I climb EU.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @aymnad.9023 said:
    I cannot tell much about this. I am not a fan of burst builds since you cannot be sure if this was a good day or a good move. Not to mention the clicking sounds X)

    I watched games 3/6/9. I liked that you also think about your allies when you use stealth, it is rare to see that. Seems obvious that you know what to do because you are very mobile and have good priorities when you try to kill/rez someone. Maybe you are too much going on scourges and taking condis? I am not sure, why sometimes do I see you using sword 2 when nothing seems to happen? Legit question if it triggers something I do not know it.

    I have seen that plat 3 arguments so much on the forums but it is just... Lol. If you listen to the forums this is the only way to be good when less than 0.01% of the population is there. After plat 1 you already see good players in your games. I think the problem (based on game 3/6/9) is that I do not see too much pressure put on you (outside of one DH) leaving you free to position yourself and go in and that builds with evades/invuln will be harder to kill when they have better timings.

    Haha sorry my keyboard is a bit loud but I can't really do much about that.

    Cool! Thanks for noticing. I'm a top player on NA and have placed top 30+ on EU when I play there. I dropped my rating on purpose to show this build's ability to climb and it's effectiveness at a variety of skill ranges. Unfortunately, several people in this thread seem to not understand this.

    I keep pressure on the scourges so they are forced to focus more on surviving rather than killing my team. If they are blood, and I use my burst to kill one of their teammates, I probably won't have enough to prevent the blood rezzes. This is why you'll see me hunting them down first when I have the opportunity. As for using sword 2 when nothing seems to happen, it's usually a preemptive defense if I think I'm about to be attacked from stealth. However, this might not apply to all cases. Could you link me any timestamps where I do this? I could try and explain why I used S2 in those specific scenarios if that would help. :)

    Yeah Plat 1 is already "above average" seeing as how Gold 2 contains the majority of the PvP population. However, I will upload all of the games as I climb to top 30+ so people can see that mantra mesmer is very effective in ranked.

    As for the lack of pressure on me, watch how I cycle through my cooldowns and try not to engage when I don't have blink/mass invis/torch 4/distort off/coming off cooldown. Even if they were to jump on me, I almost always have the tools available to escape to safety/force them to focus my allies. Also, it's actually very dangerous to go hard on pressuring a mantra mesmer. If you're too busy concentrating on killing me, I could very easily turn the fight around and burst you in return. Even a full health meta demo tools holo would be brought to 20-10% health and be forced to use Elixir S to prevent themselves from dying. The same applies (especially so) for squishier builds/classes that aren't running toughness amulets.

    Also, as for when I died in game 6 against that DH, I rewatched the vod and my S2 actually cancelled early for some reason. That's why I got hit by the knockback and True Shot. My sword 3 summon was also out of range so I wasn't able to Swap prior to my Blurred Frenzy bugging out.

  • H a z Z y.1762H a z Z y.1762 Member ✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    Very cool. It'll be interesting watching your progress.

    Curious OP, in your opinion, is the mirage version of this build better or worse than the version you're playing now?

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I skipped game 1 becouse he said it has sound issues.
    watched entire game 2, and wow was it dissapointing. the fact that his reliable 1shot no counterplay machine couldnt get him a single "1shot" in silver game... dont feel like watching the rest, just gonna wait for you to rank up and go from there, im curious how its gonna look like after you start playing against good condi thiefs and holos that will reveal you from stealth.

    My rating is clearly displayed for everyone to see. Decay doesn't affect matchmaking so this was not a silver game, but in fact a platinum one.

    There's also a oneshot at 12 minutes. So, you're wrong again.

    This thread will be updated with all of the games I play as I climb EU.

    that "1shot" took over 2 sec and killed a guy that was cleary afk becouse game was over already.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I skipped game 1 becouse he said it has sound issues.
    watched entire game 2, and wow was it dissapointing. the fact that his reliable 1shot no counterplay machine couldnt get him a single "1shot" in silver game... dont feel like watching the rest, just gonna wait for you to rank up and go from there, im curious how its gonna look like after you start playing against good condi thiefs and holos that will reveal you from stealth.

    My rating is clearly displayed for everyone to see. Decay doesn't affect matchmaking so this was not a silver game, but in fact a platinum one.

    There's also a oneshot at 12 minutes. So, you're wrong again.

    This thread will be updated with all of the games I play as I climb EU.

    that "1shot" took over 2 sec and killed a guy that was cleary afk becouse game was over already.

    Just play along will ya, clearly it was a well executed manover.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    +1

    To some, Don't be a hater to Shadowpass,

    Keep up the good work :)

  • I got similar result using renegade in rank ^^ congrats

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    It's just like how you ask for nerfs to Deadeye and Condition Thief at every opportunity.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    As for using sword 2 when nothing seems to happen, it's usually a preemptive defense if I think I'm about to be attacked from stealth. However, this might not apply to all cases. Could you link me any timestamps where I do this? I could try and explain why I used S2 in those specific scenarios if that would help. :)

    I was thinking of moments like game 3 6 :10 (it was the main one and the last game I watched ^^). Game 6 8:43 / 11:15. Watching it again there are less moment than I remembered when I wrote it. I did not see sometimes the swap 3 missing so that is why I thought they were more.

    As for the lack of pressure on me, watch how I cycle through my cooldowns and try not to engage when I don't have blink/mass invis/torch 4/distort off/coming off cooldown. Even if they were to jump on me, I almost always have the tools available to escape to safety/force them to focus my allies. Also, it's actually very dangerous to go hard on pressuring a mantra mesmer. If you're too busy concentrating on killing me, I could very easily turn the fight around and burst you in return. Even a full health meta demo tools holo would be brought to 20-10% health and be forced to use Elixir S to prevent themselves from dying. The same applies (especially so) for squishier builds/classes that aren't running toughness amulets.

    I was thinking of pressure like core guard, rev or thief going on sniper deadeye or slb. Not necessarily leading to a kill but forcing away and constant harass. Whenever I see a fa ele I know I cannot kill him. But I can force 2 defensive spells easily and know that if one ally turns he is dead or has to run away and wait for his cd. If I get the focus and can escape like the engineer usually I am happy. I know I cannot win a dps race vs those builds so I take that as a small victory if it keeps my allies safe (rest is up to them ^^).

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sorry that I am not going to argue for or against mesmer, but I would just like to say watching you shadow is giving me pointers for overall positioning. Even on classes where they don't need to re-position all that much.

    Should post vids a bit more, because these are surprisingly helpful.

  • bro no offense infended but ur low plat1 player u play rly bad lol...maybe get better before u make videos :)

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    It's just like how you ask for nerfs to Deadeye and Condition Thief at every opportunity.

    the fact that you try to compare de/condi thief to this is beyond laughable lmao

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    It's just like how you ask for nerfs to Deadeye and Condition Thief at every opportunity.

    the fact that you try to compare de/condi thief to this is beyond laughable lmao

    You forgot one thing, he is from NA like OP, are you still surprised ?

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    It's just like how you ask for nerfs to Deadeye and Condition Thief at every opportunity.

    the fact that you try to compare de/condi thief to this is beyond laughable lmao

    Condi thief is definitely a couple tiers above power mesmer right now. But DE is a perfect example since similar to power mesmer maybe four people played it at a plat2 level or higher on EU and NA but that doesn't stop the play style from being fundamentally noxious.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    It's just like how you ask for nerfs to Deadeye and Condition Thief at every opportunity.

    the fact that you try to compare de/condi thief to this is beyond laughable lmao

    Condi thief is definitely a couple tiers above power mesmer right now. But DE is a perfect example since similar to power mesmer maybe four people played it at a plat2 level or higher on EU and NA but that doesn't stop the play style from being fundamentally noxious.

    You mean the fact that DE can do oneshot level damage as power mesmer? Ignoring that DE is better than mesmer literally at everything but instead we have a rant about core mesmer BECAUSE two best NA mesmers can get top10 with it :)
    I have a friend who plays NA/EU, regulary placed top25 on EU every time he could play enough games (coincidence ranger main too), I was curious what if they are super talented pros where bronze players ezpz oneshot "le best players in the game" and what I'v got ? (As you can guess, I asked him twice, he was top32 at the moment I asked)

    I think i know who that is. Does his name starts with an A? :joy:

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    I dont know if this was meant to prove how terrible core mantra mes is, all i see is you downstate at least 6 times vs a non thief/rev comp lol

    It's just like how you ask for nerfs to Deadeye and Condition Thief at every opportunity.

    the fact that you try to compare de/condi thief to this is beyond laughable lmao

    Condi thief is definitely a couple tiers above power mesmer right now. But DE is a perfect example since similar to power mesmer maybe four people played it at a plat2 level or higher on EU and NA but that doesn't stop the play style from being fundamentally noxious.

    I had issues with DE when they had 3 sec of stealth on dodge, not the current iteration nor do i have any issues with power mes whatsoever, if i see a power mes in my game on the enemy side its a free win. The only one that i found obnoxious was mirage when it was on steroids since it was so elusive once they were caught they could easily get out of any situation due to portal and the million dodges they had.

    A core power mes does nothing outside of its burst and has zero escape, if you have issues with a core power mes due to the high powerspike you would have issues with a core DP thief with crit / DA spikes since it can 1 shot you with assassin signet, i don't see anyone crying about that cus IT IS T R A S H just like core power mes

    It's not a matter of how good or bad something is in the meta right now. On a pure philosophical design sense, instant cast damage is inherently unhealthy and bad for the game. Part of why Condi Daredevi is so overpowered right now is because it has steal loaded with 7.5k poison damage and enough confusion to do 1k per skill use on an instant cast animation free ability. And also on a philosophical level I don't think any build should be capable of killing any other build in less than 5 seconds of combat. On the opposite end of the spectrum, no build should be able to sustain 60s of combat without either dying or being forced to completely disengage from the fight. 20-40s is the golden window. And yes, I'll say this should be universal across all builds in the game.

    It's not a matter of whether it's good or not right here right now. It's about good housekeeping in the long run. It was only a just couple of balance patches ago holosmith engineer was straight up winning polls on "Most fair class" in polls with hundreds of votes. It only takes a balance patches and a few hard counters being less favorable for something to go from strong but okay to really noxious and omnipresent.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

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