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EU Ranked PvP on Core Mantra Mesmer!

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  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Did she ever get her top 30 title?

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The rating last I saw was 1593 so not on the leader board at all if you put any stock in that.

    @bravan.3876 The might stacks from mantra of pain cycling is very relevant if you're running might duration as you can get 12 stacks all the time and 24 some of the time if you time it right.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    The rating last I saw was 1593 so not on the leader board at all if you put any stock in that.

    @bravan.3876 The might stacks from mantra of pain cycling is very relevant if you're running might duration as you can get 12 stacks all the time and 24 some of the time if you time it right.

    True but that is not the point, the point is that Coremesmer has enough dmg to onehsot specific builds also without Mantra of Pain. As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result. Still the gs burst oneshot combo is predictable and counterable very easy with and without Mantras, only Chaosline was relevant for having a better chance to get a oneshot also on decent player, what he still didn't achieve (even though i don't even doubt he will get it or at least rly good Mesmer will get it here and there. I got oneshot by Core Choasline Mesmers and i never got oneshot by a Mantra Mirage a single time, no matter how good that Mesmer was). Still i never disagreed to Mantra of Pain being stupid but he complains about all Mantras not only this one.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Highest rating this season was 1662 or maybe a match or two higher idk.

    My teams for the past 3 days of quing literally could not get above 50/100/200 points. Many of them AFK'd at the start I literally cannot do anything else in those scenarios.

    I lost for 3 days straight on both EU and NA on multiple classes with breaks in between losses over the course of several days. Hence why I made that thread about how utterly kitten up the matchmaking was.

    I really do not give a kitten about this game anymore.

    @bravan.3876 you literally never have any valid arguments and just repeated the whole "you're wrong I'm right" that numerous people have pointed out in the past
    @apharma.3741 you're also annoying lol this build clearly works at high ratings... when I'm quing mid day in the top 80 or above I'm getting in the matches with the rest of the high rated people you just have a hard on for defending mesmer and everyone knows that

    inb4 im biased cause ranger main, ranger got kitten on last balance patch so i dont want to play that class (or this game anymore) and sic em and boonbeast builds are still stupid

    I'm done with this game lol AAU here I come

    My criticisms centred around your methodology being flawed in that you couldn't correlate gains and losses due to constant swapping of class with a low data pool.

    Other criticisms were how you misrepresented facts to make aspects look stronger than they were, in a similar way to heat therapy in the Holo thread, while also leaving out crucial details.

    Your little experiment doesn't support the idea that this build in this meta at this time is "one of the strongest carry builds in ranked asides from tools holo."

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Highest rating this season was 1662 or maybe a match or two higher idk.

    My teams for the past 3 days of quing literally could not get above 50/100/200 points. Many of them AFK'd at the start I literally cannot do anything else in those scenarios.

    I lost for 3 days straight on both EU and NA on multiple classes with breaks in between losses over the course of several days. Hence why I made that thread about how utterly kitten up the matchmaking was.

    I really do not give a kitten about this game anymore.

    @bravan.3876 you literally never have any valid arguments and just repeated the whole "you're wrong I'm right" that numerous people have pointed out in the past
    @apharma.3741 you're also annoying lol this build clearly works at high ratings... when I'm quing mid day in the top 80 or above I'm getting in the matches with the rest of the high rated people you just have a hard on for defending mesmer and everyone knows that

    inb4 im biased cause ranger main, ranger got kitten on last balance patch so i dont want to play that class (or this game anymore) and sic em and boonbeast builds are still stupid

    I'm done with this game lol AAU here I come

    My criticisms centred around your methodology being flawed in that you couldn't correlate gains and losses due to constant swapping of class with a low data pool.

    Other criticisms were how you misrepresented facts to make aspects look stronger than they were, in a similar way to heat therapy in the Holo thread, while also leaving out crucial details.

    Your little experiment doesn't support the idea that this build in this meta at this time is "one of the strongest carry builds in ranked asides from tools holo."

    Did he just delete his post? Didn't know you can fully delete posts :scream:

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Highest rating this season was 1662 or maybe a match or two higher idk.

    My teams for the past 3 days of quing literally could not get above 50/100/200 points. Many of them AFK'd at the start I literally cannot do anything else in those scenarios.

    I lost for 3 days straight on both EU and NA on multiple classes with breaks in between losses over the course of several days. Hence why I made that thread about how utterly kitten up the matchmaking was.

    I really do not give a kitten about this game anymore.

    @bravan.3876 you literally never have any valid arguments and just repeated the whole "you're wrong I'm right" that numerous people have pointed out in the past
    @apharma.3741 you're also annoying lol this build clearly works at high ratings... when I'm quing mid day in the top 80 or above I'm getting in the matches with the rest of the high rated people you just have a hard on for defending mesmer and everyone knows that

    inb4 im biased cause ranger main, ranger got kitten on last balance patch so i dont want to play that class (or this game anymore) and sic em and boonbeast builds are still stupid

    I'm done with this game lol AAU here I come

    My criticisms centred around your methodology being flawed in that you couldn't correlate gains and losses due to constant swapping of class with a low data pool.

    Other criticisms were how you misrepresented facts to make aspects look stronger than they were, in a similar way to heat therapy in the Holo thread, while also leaving out crucial details.

    Your little experiment doesn't support the idea that this build in this meta at this time is "one of the strongest carry builds in ranked asides from tools holo."

    Did he just delete his post? Didn't know you can fully delete posts :scream:

    Only moderators can delete posts as far as I know. Regardless it's quoted above.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Highest rating this season was 1662 or maybe a match or two higher idk.

    My teams for the past 3 days of quing literally could not get above 50/100/200 points. Many of them AFK'd at the start I literally cannot do anything else in those scenarios.

    I lost for 3 days straight on both EU and NA on multiple classes with breaks in between losses over the course of several days. Hence why I made that thread about how utterly kitten up the matchmaking was.

    I really do not give a kitten about this game anymore.

    @bravan.3876 you literally never have any valid arguments and just repeated the whole "you're wrong I'm right" that numerous people have pointed out in the past
    @apharma.3741 you're also annoying lol this build clearly works at high ratings... when I'm quing mid day in the top 80 or above I'm getting in the matches with the rest of the high rated people you just have a hard on for defending mesmer and everyone knows that

    inb4 im biased cause ranger main, ranger got kitten on last balance patch so i dont want to play that class (or this game anymore) and sic em and boonbeast builds are still stupid

    I'm done with this game lol AAU here I come

    My criticisms centred around your methodology being flawed in that you couldn't correlate gains and losses due to constant swapping of class with a low data pool.

    Other criticisms were how you misrepresented facts to make aspects look stronger than they were, in a similar way to heat therapy in the Holo thread, while also leaving out crucial details.

    Your little experiment doesn't support the idea that this build in this meta at this time is "one of the strongest carry builds in ranked asides from tools holo."

    Did he just delete his post? Didn't know you can fully delete posts :scream:

    Only moderators can delete posts as far as I know. Regardless it's quoted above.

    Ok that is what i thought too.

    On a side note: Do you realize how he mentioned how high rated he always was in NA and EU before he even started to play Mantrames? I mean, we cannot deny that builds can be that lame, that they carry players higher than they deserve but how you prove a build is carrying you, when you are high rated anyway no matter what you play? Now it seems he was even lower rated than he claimed he was before. Means if we don't want to fully deny that he proved anything with his little project, than he more proved quite the opposite: He couldn't even reach his normal rank with that build... even when you count in that he is not Mesmer main, he claimed this build is that easy to play that he should have been into it after 100+ games already right? Means that is also no argument he could use without contradicting himself.

    Same flawed logic as to say a build is that easy but no one in EU can play it (during claiming skill lvl in EU is the same than NA)...

    Logic is not his long suit. And that is pretty much all the essence of this story.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    Btw a roaming build can use stealth as much as it wants, its not the job of the build to def points anyway. That is why during HoT d/p daredevil still was the best roaming class. Not only the most mobility but also stealth for sneaky decaps and sneaky +1. PU was not used in high ranked because Powermes was not used in high ranked. And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta. Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest. In WvW Power PU always was a big dog because in WvW roles and team usefulness don't matter over personal buildcarry of the player itself. On Condimirage Chaosline is still meta and was already before patch. Not with PU for certain, because a side node/ dueller class ofc doesn't want stealth.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    Yes true that a Holo is a better Powermesmer at this point and other builds being still stronger and easier to play , but that is not my point. I would nerf these builds too or at least rework them into something with higher skill ceiling. Justifying something by saying something else is just as lame or even more lame is never a good balance argument (at least when we want skillful balance and not only balance).

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta.

    Yeah yeah we all know that for you the only way to be skill on a mesmer is to play the 6 years old monogameplay domination/duel/illusion (or mirage.). Thanks for this each post clarification. Again, where are thoses mirage in ladder/tournament ? :D (Ho I miss that it's not an argument while saying "cheese" "carry" and so on on most post is...)
    If you want to continue this line, no problem but again I will not give up.

    Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest.

    Which is the definition of being a bad thing, thanks for this obvious fact.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In case you didn't know, war can still anticap during shield block, which is the hudge difference between this and gard RF or mesmer stealth. Then, war have other temporisation skills based on weapon or high evade cycle while a PU mesmer hudgely relie on stealth.
    Then other difference between a 25 sec CD 3 sec block or a 30 sec CD 4 sec stealth is that you can be hit during stealth by aoe damage/CC or revealed. (We can see that pretty well on last shadow vid where he die in 1,5 sec by a FB aoe CC.) Which is far to be the case with a block (who can still be unblocable.).
    Then the more block/stealth duration, the best time opponent isn't pressured. Again that's highiled in shadow vid where opponents regulary fully regen while he temporize in stealth.
    It's probably a better argumentation than you usual it's skill or not, and IMO not that weird.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    No, powermirage did that better and easier.
    To give you a use case :

    • You come to a 1v1 to +1 the duel.
    • For X reasons, you miss the burst (random CC, passive effect on opponent, teleport etc..).
    • On coremes : you can't put more pressure for the next 5 to 10 seconds, wasting precious time.
    • On mirage : you can still pressure by ambush waiting for the next burst.

    I know that you aren't a mesmer main, but it's why mirage is more efficient. (not even talking about point to point mobility.)

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta.

    Yeah yeah we all know that for you the only way to be skill on a mesmer is to play the 6 years old monogameplay domination/duel/illusion (or mirage.). Thanks for this each post clarification. Again, where are thoses mirage in ladder/tournament ? :D (Ho I miss that it's not an argument while saying "cheese" "carry" and so on on most post is...)
    If you want to continue this line, no problem but again I will not give up.

    Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest.

    Which is the definition of being a bad thing, thanks for this obvious fact.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In case you didn't know, war can still anticap during shield block, which is the hudge difference between this and gard RF or mesmer stealth. Then, war have other temporisation skills based on weapon or high evade cycle while a PU mesmer hudgely relie on stealth.
    Then other difference between a 25 sec CD 3 sec block or a 30 sec CD 4 sec stealth is that you can be hit during stealth by aoe damage/CC or revealed. (We can see that pretty well on last shadow vid where he die in 1,5 sec by a FB aoe CC.) Which is far to be the case with a block (who can still be unblocable.).
    Then the more block/stealth duration, the best time opponent isn't pressured. Again that's highiled in shadow vid where opponents regulary fully regen while he temporize in stealth.
    It's probably a better argumentation than you usual it's skill or not, and IMO not that weird.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    No, powermirage did that better and easier.
    To give you a use case :

    • You come to a 1v1 to +1 the duel.
    • For X reasons, you miss the burst (random CC, passive effect on opponent, teleport etc..).
    • On coremes : you can't put more pressure for the next 5 to 10 seconds, wasting precious time.
    • On mirage : you can still pressure by ambush waiting for the next burst.

    I know that you aren't a mesmer main, but it's why mirage is more efficient. (not even talking about point to point mobility.)

    I agree that Mirage is more useful for the team i never said something else. I said that Core Chaosline Mesmers substitute team/conquest usefulness (aka map mobility and utility) for selfish player carry (selfish passive sustain, easier to apply burst from longer stealth) when playing Core Chaos instead Mirage. You were the one trying to tell me, that you can be just as useful on Core don't you remember?

    Lets not say noobfriendly when you have problems with that term but it rly is common that Chaos and Inspiration are the newbiefriendliest lines with the lowest skill ceiling. When i face a Core Chaosline Mesmer i have more problems with him even in duels than with the same player on Powermirage, simply because with the pure amount of stealth/ higher stealth duration he can too easy bait out defensive cds without outplaying me actively. Then he also has very good sustain when failing, makes him survive long enough for another chance to burst me out of long stealth. As someone tested both builds (and i suck on Powermesmer) and played vs both builds i can say Core Chaosline is way easier to play and harder to play against. Still Mirage is more useful for the team. That is why conquest viability and the lvl of lameness/ low skill ceiling doesn't correlate that much. You have very lame builds on a lot fo classes which are just not the most useful for a specific job in conquest. Not being the best at any role in conquest doesn't automatically mean it is skullful to play or not broken in some aspects. PU is in general an unhealthy mechanic should not exist. I mean why you would disagree to a rework gives Mesmer a trait more useful in PvP than PU but with higher skill ceiling? Just like EM rework would give Mirage one more good trait to choose, instead keeping a broken mechanic nerfed to death, so no one can use it, dead trait... I don't want to nerf only, i more want to rework into healthy mechanic with higher skill ceiling would make Mesmer also more interesting to play, not just nerf to death.

    That a Mesmer cannot anticap in stealth doesn't matter it is not the job of that build anyway. I feel like you have no clue how to watch at builds and how to rate builds according to the conquest role it should fill. Also we talked about contribution lvl and i already told you that a glassy roaming dmg dealer still contributes even when kiting/ disengaging/hiding in stealth to lose focus and get an unpredictable attack or rotating (well that counts for all roles in conquest but for roaming builds the most because it is not your job at all to cap/ decap or defend a point).

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not to be rude but I saw you playing this core Mesmer on Na with a solid duo q partner and you still were no where close to top 30 and this coming from someone who gets top 30 solo q on Na. You should never have gone to eu claiming to make top 30! For one average Elo is higher rn on Eu leaderboards, 2 the players who make top 30 do so with less match manipulation(eg. team USA win traders) and 3rd the meta there is closer to bunker so playing a meme version of a burst spec is less likely to be noticed.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta.

    Yeah yeah we all know that for you the only way to be skill on a mesmer is to play the 6 years old monogameplay domination/duel/illusion (or mirage.). Thanks for this each post clarification. Again, where are thoses mirage in ladder/tournament ? :D (Ho I miss that it's not an argument while saying "cheese" "carry" and so on on most post is...)
    If you want to continue this line, no problem but again I will not give up.

    Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest.

    Which is the definition of being a bad thing, thanks for this obvious fact.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In case you didn't know, war can still anticap during shield block, which is the hudge difference between this and gard RF or mesmer stealth. Then, war have other temporisation skills based on weapon or high evade cycle while a PU mesmer hudgely relie on stealth.
    Then other difference between a 25 sec CD 3 sec block or a 30 sec CD 4 sec stealth is that you can be hit during stealth by aoe damage/CC or revealed. (We can see that pretty well on last shadow vid where he die in 1,5 sec by a FB aoe CC.) Which is far to be the case with a block (who can still be unblocable.).
    Then the more block/stealth duration, the best time opponent isn't pressured. Again that's highiled in shadow vid where opponents regulary fully regen while he temporize in stealth.
    It's probably a better argumentation than you usual it's skill or not, and IMO not that weird.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    No, powermirage did that better and easier.
    To give you a use case :

    • You come to a 1v1 to +1 the duel.
    • For X reasons, you miss the burst (random CC, passive effect on opponent, teleport etc..).
    • On coremes : you can't put more pressure for the next 5 to 10 seconds, wasting precious time.
    • On mirage : you can still pressure by ambush waiting for the next burst.

    I know that you aren't a mesmer main, but it's why mirage is more efficient. (not even talking about point to point mobility.)

    Lets not say noobfriendly when you have problems with that term but it rly is common that Chaos and Inspiration are the newbiefriendliest lines with the lowest skill ceiling. When i face a Core Chaosline Mesmer i have more problems with him even in duels than with the same player on Powermirage, simply because with the pure amount of stealth/ higher stealth duration he can too easy bait out defensive cds without outplaying me actively. Then he also has very good sustain when failing, makes him survive long enough for another chance to burst me out of long stealth. As someone tested both builds (and i suck on Powermesmer) and played vs both builds i can say Core Chaosline is way easier to play and harder to play against. Still Mirage is more useful for the team. That is why conquest viability and the lvl of lameness/ low skill ceiling doesn't correlate that much. You have very lame builds on a lot fo classes which are just not the most useful for a specific job in conquest. Not being the best at any role in conquest doesn't automatically mean it is skullful to play or not broken in some aspects. PU is in general an unhealthy mechanic should not exist. I mean why you would disagree to a rework gives Mesmer a trait more useful in PvP than PU but with higher skill ceiling? Just like EM rework would give Mirage one more good trait to choose, instead keeping a broken mechanic nerfed to death, so no one can use it, dead trait... I don't want to nerf only, i more want to rework into healthy mechanic with higher skill ceiling would make Mesmer also more interesting to play, not just nerf to death.

    That a Mesmer cannot anticap in stealth doesn't matter it is not the job of that build anyway. I feel like you have no clue how to watch at builds and how to rate builds according to the conquest role it should fill. Also we talked about contribution lvl and i already told you that a glassy roaming dmg dealer still contributes even when kiting/ disengaging/hiding in stealth to lose focus and get an unpredictable attack or rotating (well that counts for all roles in conquest but for roaming builds the most because it is not your job at all to cap/ decap or defend a point).

    Should it be me who have a problem with relative arguments like noobfriendly, carrying etc or you who can''t differenciate the purpose of defensive line with the implication it mean, we didn't agree ofc.
    I don't consider less skilled to make a 1 minute fight because of less damage output and more defensive tools than to do a 20 second fight because of all damage trait taken.
    As someone who main mesmer since everytime and regulary change builds, I didn't agree about how it is "easy" to fight a powermirage contrary to a core PU mes.
    PU is a choice of losing damage/boons to have better stealth duration. It's not worth it anymore in WvW thanks to multiple structure and reveal items. And was never good in PvP for the above reasons. What I see is just that you want a gameplay removed because you don't like it (so you consider it "unealthy etc".).
    And after the Lost time, CI etc discussion where your main arguments was basically the same, and we ended up with 2 dead traits, you will be thankfull to calm down about your "rework" suggestions who destroy the class step by step.

    Mesmer didn't anticap but you want to compare stealth versus block. I have no clue about PvP roles and placements ofc, I'm plat3 every season I play because PvP is dead and build carry.
    PU mantra build isn't even good at roaming +1 ing because as highlithed in shadow vids, burst haven't 100% chances to get a down and mesmer spend half his time channeling his mantra/waiting for next burst while other roamers put constant pressure + some burst spikes.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta.

    Yeah yeah we all know that for you the only way to be skill on a mesmer is to play the 6 years old monogameplay domination/duel/illusion (or mirage.). Thanks for this each post clarification. Again, where are thoses mirage in ladder/tournament ? :D (Ho I miss that it's not an argument while saying "cheese" "carry" and so on on most post is...)
    If you want to continue this line, no problem but again I will not give up.

    Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest.

    Which is the definition of being a bad thing, thanks for this obvious fact.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In case you didn't know, war can still anticap during shield block, which is the hudge difference between this and gard RF or mesmer stealth. Then, war have other temporisation skills based on weapon or high evade cycle while a PU mesmer hudgely relie on stealth.
    Then other difference between a 25 sec CD 3 sec block or a 30 sec CD 4 sec stealth is that you can be hit during stealth by aoe damage/CC or revealed. (We can see that pretty well on last shadow vid where he die in 1,5 sec by a FB aoe CC.) Which is far to be the case with a block (who can still be unblocable.).
    Then the more block/stealth duration, the best time opponent isn't pressured. Again that's highiled in shadow vid where opponents regulary fully regen while he temporize in stealth.
    It's probably a better argumentation than you usual it's skill or not, and IMO not that weird.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    No, powermirage did that better and easier.
    To give you a use case :

    • You come to a 1v1 to +1 the duel.
    • For X reasons, you miss the burst (random CC, passive effect on opponent, teleport etc..).
    • On coremes : you can't put more pressure for the next 5 to 10 seconds, wasting precious time.
    • On mirage : you can still pressure by ambush waiting for the next burst.

    I know that you aren't a mesmer main, but it's why mirage is more efficient. (not even talking about point to point mobility.)

    Lets not say noobfriendly when you have problems with that term but it rly is common that Chaos and Inspiration are the newbiefriendliest lines with the lowest skill ceiling. When i face a Core Chaosline Mesmer i have more problems with him even in duels than with the same player on Powermirage, simply because with the pure amount of stealth/ higher stealth duration he can too easy bait out defensive cds without outplaying me actively. Then he also has very good sustain when failing, makes him survive long enough for another chance to burst me out of long stealth. As someone tested both builds (and i suck on Powermesmer) and played vs both builds i can say Core Chaosline is way easier to play and harder to play against. Still Mirage is more useful for the team. That is why conquest viability and the lvl of lameness/ low skill ceiling doesn't correlate that much. You have very lame builds on a lot fo classes which are just not the most useful for a specific job in conquest. Not being the best at any role in conquest doesn't automatically mean it is skullful to play or not broken in some aspects. PU is in general an unhealthy mechanic should not exist. I mean why you would disagree to a rework gives Mesmer a trait more useful in PvP than PU but with higher skill ceiling? Just like EM rework would give Mirage one more good trait to choose, instead keeping a broken mechanic nerfed to death, so no one can use it, dead trait... I don't want to nerf only, i more want to rework into healthy mechanic with higher skill ceiling would make Mesmer also more interesting to play, not just nerf to death.

    That a Mesmer cannot anticap in stealth doesn't matter it is not the job of that build anyway. I feel like you have no clue how to watch at builds and how to rate builds according to the conquest role it should fill. Also we talked about contribution lvl and i already told you that a glassy roaming dmg dealer still contributes even when kiting/ disengaging/hiding in stealth to lose focus and get an unpredictable attack or rotating (well that counts for all roles in conquest but for roaming builds the most because it is not your job at all to cap/ decap or defend a point).

    Should it be me who have a problem with relative arguments like noobfriendly, carrying etc or you who can''t differenciate the purpose of defensive line with the implication it mean, we didn't agree ofc.
    I don't consider less skilled to make a 1 minute fight because of less damage output and more defensive tools than to do a 20 second fight because of all damage trait taken.
    As someone who main mesmer since everytime and regulary change builds, I didn't agree about how it is "easy" to fight a powermirage contrary to a core PU mes.
    PU is a choice of losing damage/boons to have better stealth duration. It's not worth it anymore in WvW thanks to multiple structure and reveal items. And was never good in PvP for the above reasons. What I see is just that you want a gameplay removed because you don't like it (so you consider it "unealthy etc".).
    And after the Lost time, CI etc discussion where your main arguments was basically the same, and we ended up with 2 dead traits, you will be thankfull to calm down about your "rework" suggestions who destroy the class step by step.

    Mesmer didn't anticap but you want to compare stealth versus block. I have no clue about PvP roles and placements ofc, I'm plat3 every season I play because PvP is dead and build carry.
    PU mantra build isn't even good at roaming +1 ing because as highlithed in shadow vids, burst haven't 100% chances to get a down and mesmer spend half his time channeling his mantra/waiting for next burst while other roamers put constant pressure + some burst spikes.

    1. No, i already said it, he use Chaosline and still has oneshot dmg. That is exactly one point. A build wiht one defensive traitlien should not have oneshot dmg anymore. That is why i say defensive traitlines should have more opportunity costs in dmg. Atm we have a lot of builds like Holo have insane dmg and still high sustain, often even passive.
    2. What is my second point. I don't mind sustain as long as it is mostly active. Most defensive traitlines incl both Mesmers are too passively designed and with a too low skill ceiling. Spamming long stealth never was a skilled or healthy mechanic. I don't mind some stealth but i already explained why removing the need to actively outplay opponents to bait out cds and replace that by simple long stealth duration (what even passively pop boonsustain) leads to a lower skill ceiling. I think that is obviously logical.
    3. I compared steath vs block only in terms of contribution because that was what you were talking about. A roaming +1 build still can contribute quite fine during being stealthed for already explained reasons. During a duel pointhold build cannot rly do the job when stealthing in a duelfight and lose the cap. Means for a roaming class stealth doesn't prevent match contribution.
    4. It is not my fault that Anet reworked them in a bad way (the new CI trait maybe isn't even that bad). But both traits were clearly broken in old version.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta.

    Yeah yeah we all know that for you the only way to be skill on a mesmer is to play the 6 years old monogameplay domination/duel/illusion (or mirage.). Thanks for this each post clarification. Again, where are thoses mirage in ladder/tournament ? :D (Ho I miss that it's not an argument while saying "cheese" "carry" and so on on most post is...)
    If you want to continue this line, no problem but again I will not give up.

    Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest.

    Which is the definition of being a bad thing, thanks for this obvious fact.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In case you didn't know, war can still anticap during shield block, which is the hudge difference between this and gard RF or mesmer stealth. Then, war have other temporisation skills based on weapon or high evade cycle while a PU mesmer hudgely relie on stealth.
    Then other difference between a 25 sec CD 3 sec block or a 30 sec CD 4 sec stealth is that you can be hit during stealth by aoe damage/CC or revealed. (We can see that pretty well on last shadow vid where he die in 1,5 sec by a FB aoe CC.) Which is far to be the case with a block (who can still be unblocable.).
    Then the more block/stealth duration, the best time opponent isn't pressured. Again that's highiled in shadow vid where opponents regulary fully regen while he temporize in stealth.
    It's probably a better argumentation than you usual it's skill or not, and IMO not that weird.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    No, powermirage did that better and easier.
    To give you a use case :

    • You come to a 1v1 to +1 the duel.
    • For X reasons, you miss the burst (random CC, passive effect on opponent, teleport etc..).
    • On coremes : you can't put more pressure for the next 5 to 10 seconds, wasting precious time.
    • On mirage : you can still pressure by ambush waiting for the next burst.

    I know that you aren't a mesmer main, but it's why mirage is more efficient. (not even talking about point to point mobility.)

    Lets not say noobfriendly when you have problems with that term but it rly is common that Chaos and Inspiration are the newbiefriendliest lines with the lowest skill ceiling. When i face a Core Chaosline Mesmer i have more problems with him even in duels than with the same player on Powermirage, simply because with the pure amount of stealth/ higher stealth duration he can too easy bait out defensive cds without outplaying me actively. Then he also has very good sustain when failing, makes him survive long enough for another chance to burst me out of long stealth. As someone tested both builds (and i suck on Powermesmer) and played vs both builds i can say Core Chaosline is way easier to play and harder to play against. Still Mirage is more useful for the team. That is why conquest viability and the lvl of lameness/ low skill ceiling doesn't correlate that much. You have very lame builds on a lot fo classes which are just not the most useful for a specific job in conquest. Not being the best at any role in conquest doesn't automatically mean it is skullful to play or not broken in some aspects. PU is in general an unhealthy mechanic should not exist. I mean why you would disagree to a rework gives Mesmer a trait more useful in PvP than PU but with higher skill ceiling? Just like EM rework would give Mirage one more good trait to choose, instead keeping a broken mechanic nerfed to death, so no one can use it, dead trait... I don't want to nerf only, i more want to rework into healthy mechanic with higher skill ceiling would make Mesmer also more interesting to play, not just nerf to death.

    That a Mesmer cannot anticap in stealth doesn't matter it is not the job of that build anyway. I feel like you have no clue how to watch at builds and how to rate builds according to the conquest role it should fill. Also we talked about contribution lvl and i already told you that a glassy roaming dmg dealer still contributes even when kiting/ disengaging/hiding in stealth to lose focus and get an unpredictable attack or rotating (well that counts for all roles in conquest but for roaming builds the most because it is not your job at all to cap/ decap or defend a point).

    Should it be me who have a problem with relative arguments like noobfriendly, carrying etc or you who can''t differenciate the purpose of defensive line with the implication it mean, we didn't agree ofc.
    I don't consider less skilled to make a 1 minute fight because of less damage output and more defensive tools than to do a 20 second fight because of all damage trait taken.
    As someone who main mesmer since everytime and regulary change builds, I didn't agree about how it is "easy" to fight a powermirage contrary to a core PU mes.
    PU is a choice of losing damage/boons to have better stealth duration. It's not worth it anymore in WvW thanks to multiple structure and reveal items. And was never good in PvP for the above reasons. What I see is just that you want a gameplay removed because you don't like it (so you consider it "unealthy etc".).
    And after the Lost time, CI etc discussion where your main arguments was basically the same, and we ended up with 2 dead traits, you will be thankfull to calm down about your "rework" suggestions who destroy the class step by step.

    Mesmer didn't anticap but you want to compare stealth versus block. I have no clue about PvP roles and placements ofc, I'm plat3 every season I play because PvP is dead and build carry.
    PU mantra build isn't even good at roaming +1 ing because as highlithed in shadow vids, burst haven't 100% chances to get a down and mesmer spend half his time channeling his mantra/waiting for next burst while other roamers put constant pressure + some burst spikes.

    1. No, i already said it, he use Chaosline and still has oneshot dmg. That is exactly one point. A build wiht one defensive traitlien should not have oneshot dmg anymore. That is why i say defensive traitlines should have more opportunity costs in dmg. Atm we have a lot of builds like Holo have insane dmg and still high sustain, often even passive.
    2. What is my second point. I don't mind sustain as long as it is mostly active. Most defensive traitlines incl both Mesmers are too passively designed and with a too low skill ceiling. Spamming long stealth never was a skilled or healthy mechanic. I don't mind some stealth but i already explained why removing the need to actively outplay opponents to bait out cds and replace that by simple by long stealth duration leads to a lower skill ceiling. I think that is obviously logical.
    3. I compared steath vs block only in terms of contribution because that was what you were talking about. A roaming +1 build still can contribute quite fine during being stealthed for already explained reasons. During a duel pointhold build cannot rly do the job when stealthing in a duelfight and lose the cap. Means for a roaming class stealth doesn't prevent match contribution.
    4. It is not my fault that Anet reworked them in a bad way (the new CI trait maybe isn't even that bad). But both traits were clearly broken in old version.

    I think you dont get it. It doesnt matter how many deffensive or ovvensive traits you take. END resoult is what matters.
    this core mesmer with 1 DEFENSIVE traitline is not defensive at all, who is more defensive, full damage berserker or this core mesmer?

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta.

    Yeah yeah we all know that for you the only way to be skill on a mesmer is to play the 6 years old monogameplay domination/duel/illusion (or mirage.). Thanks for this each post clarification. Again, where are thoses mirage in ladder/tournament ? :D (Ho I miss that it's not an argument while saying "cheese" "carry" and so on on most post is...)
    If you want to continue this line, no problem but again I will not give up.

    Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest.

    Which is the definition of being a bad thing, thanks for this obvious fact.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In case you didn't know, war can still anticap during shield block, which is the hudge difference between this and gard RF or mesmer stealth. Then, war have other temporisation skills based on weapon or high evade cycle while a PU mesmer hudgely relie on stealth.
    Then other difference between a 25 sec CD 3 sec block or a 30 sec CD 4 sec stealth is that you can be hit during stealth by aoe damage/CC or revealed. (We can see that pretty well on last shadow vid where he die in 1,5 sec by a FB aoe CC.) Which is far to be the case with a block (who can still be unblocable.).
    Then the more block/stealth duration, the best time opponent isn't pressured. Again that's highiled in shadow vid where opponents regulary fully regen while he temporize in stealth.
    It's probably a better argumentation than you usual it's skill or not, and IMO not that weird.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    No, powermirage did that better and easier.
    To give you a use case :

    • You come to a 1v1 to +1 the duel.
    • For X reasons, you miss the burst (random CC, passive effect on opponent, teleport etc..).
    • On coremes : you can't put more pressure for the next 5 to 10 seconds, wasting precious time.
    • On mirage : you can still pressure by ambush waiting for the next burst.

    I know that you aren't a mesmer main, but it's why mirage is more efficient. (not even talking about point to point mobility.)

    Lets not say noobfriendly when you have problems with that term but it rly is common that Chaos and Inspiration are the newbiefriendliest lines with the lowest skill ceiling. When i face a Core Chaosline Mesmer i have more problems with him even in duels than with the same player on Powermirage, simply because with the pure amount of stealth/ higher stealth duration he can too easy bait out defensive cds without outplaying me actively. Then he also has very good sustain when failing, makes him survive long enough for another chance to burst me out of long stealth. As someone tested both builds (and i suck on Powermesmer) and played vs both builds i can say Core Chaosline is way easier to play and harder to play against. Still Mirage is more useful for the team. That is why conquest viability and the lvl of lameness/ low skill ceiling doesn't correlate that much. You have very lame builds on a lot fo classes which are just not the most useful for a specific job in conquest. Not being the best at any role in conquest doesn't automatically mean it is skullful to play or not broken in some aspects. PU is in general an unhealthy mechanic should not exist. I mean why you would disagree to a rework gives Mesmer a trait more useful in PvP than PU but with higher skill ceiling? Just like EM rework would give Mirage one more good trait to choose, instead keeping a broken mechanic nerfed to death, so no one can use it, dead trait... I don't want to nerf only, i more want to rework into healthy mechanic with higher skill ceiling would make Mesmer also more interesting to play, not just nerf to death.

    That a Mesmer cannot anticap in stealth doesn't matter it is not the job of that build anyway. I feel like you have no clue how to watch at builds and how to rate builds according to the conquest role it should fill. Also we talked about contribution lvl and i already told you that a glassy roaming dmg dealer still contributes even when kiting/ disengaging/hiding in stealth to lose focus and get an unpredictable attack or rotating (well that counts for all roles in conquest but for roaming builds the most because it is not your job at all to cap/ decap or defend a point).

    Should it be me who have a problem with relative arguments like noobfriendly, carrying etc or you who can''t differenciate the purpose of defensive line with the implication it mean, we didn't agree ofc.
    I don't consider less skilled to make a 1 minute fight because of less damage output and more defensive tools than to do a 20 second fight because of all damage trait taken.
    As someone who main mesmer since everytime and regulary change builds, I didn't agree about how it is "easy" to fight a powermirage contrary to a core PU mes.
    PU is a choice of losing damage/boons to have better stealth duration. It's not worth it anymore in WvW thanks to multiple structure and reveal items. And was never good in PvP for the above reasons. What I see is just that you want a gameplay removed because you don't like it (so you consider it "unealthy etc".).
    And after the Lost time, CI etc discussion where your main arguments was basically the same, and we ended up with 2 dead traits, you will be thankfull to calm down about your "rework" suggestions who destroy the class step by step.

    Mesmer didn't anticap but you want to compare stealth versus block. I have no clue about PvP roles and placements ofc, I'm plat3 every season I play because PvP is dead and build carry.
    PU mantra build isn't even good at roaming +1 ing because as highlithed in shadow vids, burst haven't 100% chances to get a down and mesmer spend half his time channeling his mantra/waiting for next burst while other roamers put constant pressure + some burst spikes.

    1. No, i already said it, he use Chaosline and still has oneshot dmg. That is exactly one point. A build wiht one defensive traitlien should not have oneshot dmg anymore. That is why i say defensive traitlines should have more opportunity costs in dmg. Atm we have a lot of builds like Holo have insane dmg and still high sustain, often even passive.
    2. What is my second point. I don't mind sustain as long as it is mostly active. Most defensive traitlines incl both Mesmers are too passively designed and with a too low skill ceiling. Spamming long stealth never was a skilled or healthy mechanic. I don't mind some stealth but i already explained why removing the need to actively outplay opponents to bait out cds and replace that by simple by long stealth duration leads to a lower skill ceiling. I think that is obviously logical.
    3. I compared steath vs block only in terms of contribution because that was what you were talking about. A roaming +1 build still can contribute quite fine during being stealthed for already explained reasons. During a duel pointhold build cannot rly do the job when stealthing in a duelfight and lose the cap. Means for a roaming class stealth doesn't prevent match contribution.
    4. It is not my fault that Anet reworked them in a bad way (the new CI trait maybe isn't even that bad). But both traits were clearly broken in old version.

    I think you dont get it. It doesnt matter how many deffensive or ovvensive traits you take. END resoult is what matters.
    this core mesmer with 1 DEFENSIVE traitline is not defensive at all, who is more defensive, full damage berserker or this core mesmer?

    I am not sure what you mean, end result is that a oneshot build has high passive sustain in addition and also some more active sustain. There were a lot of situations Shadowpass would have died without Chaosline but this traitline made him survive without him even playing that well. Chaosline turns a high risk high reward build into low risk high reward. Warrior has some issues too but as said that is no justification for Chaosline.

    I get that both of you like to play Chaosline and for that don't want to get it nerfed but that Chaosline (in particular PU on a oneshot build) makes playing Mesmer clearly easier, more forgiving and is an unhealthy mechanic is so obvious that i don't understand why we have a dispute about that. We can argue about if it needs nerfs or not, i am ok with you both disagree in that point but that Chaosline has a lower skill ceiling than builds without it is rly a fact. I already agreed that Chaosline Mesmer is not more broken compared to other Metabuilds but that is no argument, i would nerf/ rework all meta builds/ most defensive traitlines from all classes too though.

    But it feels like we turn around in a circle. As said i am totally fine with ppl disagree with me about if it needs a nerf or rework. Just let it keep like that.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    Actually I think this was my highest on EU.

    1675 rating, rank 62

    Solo que only core mantra mesmer. If I had a semi-competant duo that could at least hold a 1v1, would've gotten top 30 a lot more easily/sooner.

    But yeah I've proven my point. I took a glass build I had zero prior experience on and solo climbed from around 1440 at the lowest point to nearly 1700 in a little more than a week. The build is clearly efficient at climbing alone, and would be even more so with a duo. Anyone who said that this build can't function on EU because everyone dodges the bursts and will easily focus me so I can't do anything was wrong. There are around 70, unedited, games in a row that prove otherwise.

    I have a few more games I could upload. In 2 or 3 of them, I won 1v1 and 1v2 against the rank 9 player at the time on EU but we'll see how much time I have between school and AAU.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    2) You give kitten subjective arguments like "cheesy", "it's obvious", "I argued",... on 15+ lines post who didn't gave it more weight.
    4) You don't give credible alternative/rework suggestions.

    That's what everyone tells him but he still doesn't get it lol

    INB4 he says for the 30th time "I already made my arguments and I'm right and you're wrong."

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This would have been a far more constructive thread if people had argued around the classes performance, instead of who has the biggest e-kitten.

    As far as anything having been proven, I can't comment on that since I'm not experienced enough to know how big the serious pvp community on EU is.

    Only this much: almost making it to the top hardly seems like strong solid proof that a build is overpowered.

    Hell I made P1 this season (I'm not even pvp rank 40) and I didn't even try. Anything sub P2, an experinced player should destroy, no matter the build.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    As mentioned only Mantra Mirage rly needs Mantra of Pain for the same result.

    ??

    BTW for me the conclusion is that :
    MoP is a one trick tools.
    PU was never used in high level PvP because :

    • During stealth opponents can move/regen/aoe/drink cofee.
    • A stealth gameplay didn't allow point capturing.

    So basically you can one shot occasionally but you will lose game contribution while being :

    • Less mobile than other +1 class.
    • Putting way less pressure between burts than other burst class.
    • Having burst combo to setup while other class can 4 to 9k damage/clic.

    So It's at the core gard burst level : it oneshot sometimes but it's far to be the most efficient way to play mesmer in PvP. (And far to be OP.)

    My argument was simply about if Mantra of Pain is needed for the oneshot or not. And his build can oneshot the same builds also without it. But even when it is needed for the oneshot (like on Powermirage) it doesn't make the oneshot any more or less predictable. Only Chaosline had an impact on how less predictable thus how easy it is to land the combo because of the long stealth duration.

    And when it was used then either to prove some skill and then ofc without Inspiration or Chaos or with Inspiration instead Chaos because of the condi heavy meta.

    Yeah yeah we all know that for you the only way to be skill on a mesmer is to play the 6 years old monogameplay domination/duel/illusion (or mirage.). Thanks for this each post clarification. Again, where are thoses mirage in ladder/tournament ? :D (Ho I miss that it's not an argument while saying "cheese" "carry" and so on on most post is...)
    If you want to continue this line, no problem but again I will not give up.

    Chaosline PU never was not used in PvP because it was bad, just because other stuff made more sense in conquest.

    Which is the definition of being a bad thing, thanks for this obvious fact.

    What weird argument to say ppl can reggen/ move/ drink coffee during stealth, they also can do that during a Warrior shield block or Guards Renewed Focus... doesn't make the shield block any less viable.

    In case you didn't know, war can still anticap during shield block, which is the hudge difference between this and gard RF or mesmer stealth. Then, war have other temporisation skills based on weapon or high evade cycle while a PU mesmer hudgely relie on stealth.
    Then other difference between a 25 sec CD 3 sec block or a 30 sec CD 4 sec stealth is that you can be hit during stealth by aoe damage/CC or revealed. (We can see that pretty well on last shadow vid where he die in 1,5 sec by a FB aoe CC.) Which is far to be the case with a block (who can still be unblocable.).
    Then the more block/stealth duration, the best time opponent isn't pressured. Again that's highiled in shadow vid where opponents regulary fully regen while he temporize in stealth.
    It's probably a better argumentation than you usual it's skill or not, and IMO not that weird.

    In your argumentation a Powermes or any glassy roaming build always lose game contribution when it needs to kite/ disengagge because of focus while other classes can stand on point and facetank. But you forget that kiting/ disengageing for a glassy rotation dmg dealer is part of game contribution by simple surviving and holding opponents busy during that and same for creating the need of keeping track of its rotations so he cannot surprisingly +1 a dueller makes him die instant to the +1. It is exactly the job of a roaming build to incoming fast into a fight, get a kill and then leave before getting focused to death, then pop out somewhere else to +1 there or decap. Core Chaosline PU does that in a very effective (except for outfight mobility) and the most easy to play way, duo to long stealth duration and very good passive sustain while still being able to oneshot. All you mentioned is quite a strength of the build according to the job it is meant for not a weakness.

    No, powermirage did that better and easier.
    To give you a use case :

    • You come to a 1v1 to +1 the duel.
    • For X reasons, you miss the burst (random CC, passive effect on opponent, teleport etc..).
    • On coremes : you can't put more pressure for the next 5 to 10 seconds, wasting precious time.
    • On mirage : you can still pressure by ambush waiting for the next burst.

    I know that you aren't a mesmer main, but it's why mirage is more efficient. (not even talking about point to point mobility.)

    Lets not say noobfriendly when you have problems with that term but it rly is common that Chaos and Inspiration are the newbiefriendliest lines with the lowest skill ceiling. When i face a Core Chaosline Mesmer i have more problems with him even in duels than with the same player on Powermirage, simply because with the pure amount of stealth/ higher stealth duration he can too easy bait out defensive cds without outplaying me actively. Then he also has very good sustain when failing, makes him survive long enough for another chance to burst me out of long stealth. As someone tested both builds (and i suck on Powermesmer) and played vs both builds i can say Core Chaosline is way easier to play and harder to play against. Still Mirage is more useful for the team. That is why conquest viability and the lvl of lameness/ low skill ceiling doesn't correlate that much. You have very lame builds on a lot fo classes which are just not the most useful for a specific job in conquest. Not being the best at any role in conquest doesn't automatically mean it is skullful to play or not broken in some aspects. PU is in general an unhealthy mechanic should not exist. I mean why you would disagree to a rework gives Mesmer a trait more useful in PvP than PU but with higher skill ceiling? Just like EM rework would give Mirage one more good trait to choose, instead keeping a broken mechanic nerfed to death, so no one can use it, dead trait... I don't want to nerf only, i more want to rework into healthy mechanic with higher skill ceiling would make Mesmer also more interesting to play, not just nerf to death.

    That a Mesmer cannot anticap in stealth doesn't matter it is not the job of that build anyway. I feel like you have no clue how to watch at builds and how to rate builds according to the conquest role it should fill. Also we talked about contribution lvl and i already told you that a glassy roaming dmg dealer still contributes even when kiting/ disengaging/hiding in stealth to lose focus and get an unpredictable attack or rotating (well that counts for all roles in conquest but for roaming builds the most because it is not your job at all to cap/ decap or defend a point).

    Should it be me who have a problem with relative arguments like noobfriendly, carrying etc or you who can''t differenciate the purpose of defensive line with the implication it mean, we didn't agree ofc.
    I don't consider less skilled to make a 1 minute fight because of less damage output and more defensive tools than to do a 20 second fight because of all damage trait taken.
    As someone who main mesmer since everytime and regulary change builds, I didn't agree about how it is "easy" to fight a powermirage contrary to a core PU mes.
    PU is a choice of losing damage/boons to have better stealth duration. It's not worth it anymore in WvW thanks to multiple structure and reveal items. And was never good in PvP for the above reasons. What I see is just that you want a gameplay removed because you don't like it (so you consider it "unealthy etc".).
    And after the Lost time, CI etc discussion where your main arguments was basically the same, and we ended up with 2 dead traits, you will be thankfull to calm down about your "rework" suggestions who destroy the class step by step.

    Mesmer didn't anticap but you want to compare stealth versus block. I have no clue about PvP roles and placements ofc, I'm plat3 every season I play because PvP is dead and build carry.
    PU mantra build isn't even good at roaming +1 ing because as highlithed in shadow vids, burst haven't 100% chances to get a down and mesmer spend half his time channeling his mantra/waiting for next burst while other roamers put constant pressure + some burst spikes.

    1. No, i already said it, he use Chaosline and still has oneshot dmg. That is exactly one point. A build wiht one defensive traitlien should not have oneshot dmg anymore. That is why i say defensive traitlines should have more opportunity costs in dmg. Atm we have a lot of builds like Holo have insane dmg and still high sustain, often even passive.

    That's the point, he use chaosline and has oneshot dmg time to time while the "norm" in the current environnement with no defensive line is to have constant pressure + burst damage. Basically you drop constant pressure to more defense that's the point.

    1. What is my second point. I don't mind sustain as long as it is mostly active. Most defensive traitlines incl both Mesmers are too passively designed and with a too low skill ceiling. Spamming long stealth never was a skilled or healthy mechanic. I don't mind some stealth but i already explained why removing the need to actively outplay opponents to bait out cds and replace that by simple long stealth duration (what even passively pop boonsustain) leads to a lower skill ceiling. I think that is obviously logical.

    Ok having some protection uptime/regen from chaos line and rng boons is far under the "passive" effects we have on the current environnement on other class (like perma boon on classic rotation, passive weakness/poison/immobilise on attacks, passive antiCC etc etc.), you can come back until they nerf other tools. Removing the boon from PU will not up the skill ceiling at all (note that with the meh duration, boons from PU basically end at the end of stealth, you clearly can't use it to stack them.), it will just make mesmer getting powned more by random damage or CC aoe.
    You are just whinning about the wrong thing just because you don't like it. And your logic is just the way to make one more dead trait.

    1. I compared steath vs block only in terms of contribution because that was what you were talking about. A roaming +1 build still can contribute quite fine during being stealthed for already explained reasons. During a duel pointhold build cannot rly do the job when stealthing in a duelfight and lose the cap. Means for a roaming class stealth doesn't prevent match contribution.

    When was the last time we saw a stealth build on mat because you say crazy things. Even during PoF thief smoke combo was more to comboing with teamate than to play a stealth based build.

    1. It is not my fault that Anet reworked them in a bad way (the new CI trait maybe isn't even that bad). But both traits were clearly broken in old version.

    You just participe on the nerf fiesta while not proposing viable alternative.
    The new CI trait is bad and bugged and they were considered broken only because player don't adapt their builds to face new things. I'm really sad that we hadn't mat this summer to highlight how it's easy to counter old CI builds once you know it exist.

    @bravan.3876 said:
    I get that both of you like to play Chaosline and for that don't want to get it nerfed but that Chaosline (in particular PU on a oneshot build) makes playing Mesmer clearly easier, more forgiving and is an unhealthy mechanic is so obvious that i don't understand why we have a dispute about that. We can argue about if it needs nerfs or not, i am ok with you both disagree in that point but that Chaosline has a lower skill ceiling than builds without it is rly a fact. I already agreed that Chaosline Mesmer is not more broken compared to other Metabuilds but that is no argument, i would nerf/ rework all meta builds/ most defensive traitlines from all classes too though.
    But it feels like we turn around in a circle. As said i am totally fine with ppl disagree with me about if it needs a nerf or rework. Just let it keep like that.

    Yeah and I get that you don't like chaosline so you consider it as cheesy, lower ceiling and so on. I have a dispute about that because each time you ask for a nerf :
    1) You don't understand the synergy traits has with other traits/skills.
    2) You give kitten subjective arguments like "cheesy", "it's obvious", "I argued",... on 15+ lines post who didn't gave it more weight.
    3) skill start by playing efficients builds. A domination/duel/illusion direct damage build ins't viable for example.
    4) You don't give credible alternative/rework suggestions.

    1. Not quite, the switch from Core to Mirage is a switch from pure dmg/ pure burst to more sustain-dmg and utility in general, that has nothing to do with Chaosline. It would be the same when you compare a Domination/ Duelling/ Illusion Core Mesmer with Powermirage. This is a balanced substitution. But taking a defensive line doesn't reduce his dmg remarkable because as i already mentioned lot of defensive traitlines don't have enough opportunity costs in dmg (like before traitline rework pre HoT traitlines had offensive or defensive statboni depending on the nature of the traitline, this is only one little reason we had less power creep back then). With other words with Choasline he gets not only more burst compared to Mirage he also gets passive sustain and access to an in general inhealthy mechanic (PU) in addition to the otherwise balanced switch form burts dmg to sustain dmg/utility. If you think hiding in stealth with a oneshot combo at hand barely any tell out of stealth in melee is healthy and not easy to play than ok. I don't know what to say then (also funny this hypocrite Shadowpass agreed to you after he wrote more or less the same into his initial post rofl). But you also think old CI trait was balanced and high skillceiling play even though 99% of all player in this forum and Anet balance team disagreed to that and i explained pretty well why an instant range lock down mechanic never can be balanced. Still you said i had no arguments back then too. One time you suggested to just delete the longer stealth duration from PU if i would be happy with that. I say yes that would be a good thing already. We can think about a compensation for that, which doesn't lead into an unhealthy mechanic again. It is not my goal to create another dead trait, i want another trait without unhealthy mechanic that is not nerfed to death (like EM).
    2. I suggested balance changes to old CI and to old Lost Time, none of it got implemented. I never ask for removing the dmg completely from Lost Time, i said make it more skillbased (aka less spammy) by make it only proc on interrupt not on simple cc spam. I suggested to remove the immob from CI and give another non-dmg condition for it in return (together with @Lincolnbeard.1735 or @praqtos.9035 , if i remember right, we suggested chill as frist try). Anet did something completely different. You can't blame me for that. With other words i always explained why i think something is too strong or in general unhealth mechanic, that i don't have arguments or don't suggest how to balance or rework stuff i criticize is objectively wrong. You can disagree with me, i already said i am fine with that, but you can't say i don't have arguments at all and that i just cry.
    3. As said, saying something is op, unhealthy, noobcarry, lame etc are just the conclusions, It needs exactly one sentence to say that and you can subtract this one sentence from my wall of text and get the arguments.
    4. It is not hard to create strong builds in GW2, the traitsystem is very easy and duo to bad balance in the sustain-dmg relation, in the way condis are designed etc. you don't need to be a skilled pro to make a strong build also can carry missing player skill. So no for GW2 i disagree, Build crafting is far away from being a science in GW2, all builds lying on hand more or less.
    5. A said i agree to you that other classes have the same issues i see on Chaosline and i already agreed that they need nerf/ rework too. We should nerf/ rework at same time not one first or later. Just same time i think would be the best.
    6. But in the end we can just close this thread, Shadowpass just agreed to Viquing that Mesmer is completely fine in all aspects. Look viquing who is your new friend (lets give a shoutcast of pure hypocrisies):

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.
    • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted. It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...
      • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    They don't need to blink if they can stealth for 9 seconds at a completely different node and walk up to you without you knowing. And how are you supposed to reveal the mesmer if he's been in stealth for ages? Not only did he stealth from so far away you couldn't even see the animation, but the majority of reveal skills require a target.

    Any more quotes you want Shadowpass? Even when i completely forget about my own thinking and only use your own writings it gets clear that your logic is flawed, even in your own little world. Would be easy to lead you a merry dance when doing the effort to rly quote all your kitten as you asked for.
    Or i just give examples like it did here and in the Ranger subforum several times like this one:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    On a side note: Do you realize how he mentioned how high rated he always was in NA and EU before he even started to play Mantrames? I mean, we cannot deny that builds can be that lame, that they carry players higher than they deserve but how you prove a build is carrying you, when you are high rated anyway no matter what you play? Now it seems he was even lower rated than he claimed he was before. Means if we don't want to fully deny that he proved anything with his little project, than he more proved quite the opposite: He couldn't even reach his normal rank with that build... even when you count in that he is not Mesmer main, he claimed this build is that easy to play that he should have been into it after 100+ games already right? Means that is also no argument he could use without contradicting himself.

    Same flawed logic as to say a build is that easy but no one in EU can play it (during claiming skill lvl in EU is the same than NA)...

    Logic is not his long suit. And that is pretty much all the essence of this story.

    Some more examples as you wished Shadowpass:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    I'm tired of getting one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Yes, you can see Mirror Blade coming if the mesmer casts it at range. However, a good mantra mesmer will cast Mirror Blade when he's standing ON TOP of you (which you won't know he's there because he's in stealth). It instantly hits you and there's no tell until after it hits. By that time, you're already dead.

    I play a variety of games and sports competitively, including shooters. I have a fast average reaction time for both visual and auditory stimuli. For example, I can dodge Hunter's Shot on ranger (ranger LB3), pre-nerf Spear of Justice (DH F1), and Infiltrator's Strike (thief S2) 100% of the time if I'm paying attention. I'm telling everyone in this thread that there is nothing for me to watch out for on the mesmer burst if they execute it properly.

    You can say whatever you want but I've been playing at the highest level since GW2 came out and ESL still existed.

    I'm talking about the 9 second AoE stealth on a 48 second cooldown that pulses defensive boons.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Builds that can one-shot you from stealth WITHOUT any reasonable indication, animation, or sound cue that you can dodge NEED to get deleted. They do not belong in this game.

    I have no arguments during literally saying the same and even agree to your points abotu Chaosline and out of long stealth oneshots? I guess we bost have no arguments then. Have fun with Viqing talking about Chaosline, i am out for now, have other stuff to do and probably would start saying stuff i rly would need to feel sry for later. So i try to get back to chill mode and maybe later when i have more time again make some more merry dance with you just for the laughs. Hypocrite destructive kitten, waste of time in the end but why not when you ask to get beaten by your own words so badly i will give you that.

    Last words for Viquing: I never opened a Mesmer complain thread myself, i post here for the main reason to prevent Shadowpass from overnerfing Mesmer and you always fall into my back because i at least listen to his points and had to agree to very few of them. You don't agree to him in a single point, even more funny that you both reunite (or at least he tries to unite with you, cuz too weak alone). I can't deal with such amount of unlogic and hypocrisies... i want to run my head against a wall that would feel better than this.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 :
    Again why are you persuaded that chaosline give more burst than mirage ? Where are the damage trait in chaosline ?
    There is many way to counter stealth, particulary considering mesmer isn't as mobile as thief during stealth.
    And yeah I think that once CI was shown destroyed in mat because people build against it (for me the only way he get in semi (note that he didn't win the mat with it) is because it was a new thing and people aren't prepared.), the "hype" should have come down but we never knew this.
    About your text on which we are all devil guys and you are the light in the darkness or the man in the middle, well if you think so, nice for you but it has nothing to do with the discussion.
    Just get in mind that not everyone share your opinion on what is skill and healthy and the more nerf and gameplay destruction happen, the more people will be against your argumentation.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    Again why are you persuaded that chaosline give more burst than mirage ? Where are the damage trait in chaosline ?
    There is many way to counter stealth, particulary considering mesmer isn't as mobile as thief during stealth.
    And yeah I think that once CI was shown destroyed in mat because people build against it (for me the only way he get in semi (note that he didn't win the mat with it) is because it was a new thing and people aren't prepared.), the "hype" should have come down but we never knew this.
    About your text on which we are all devil guys and you are the light in the darkness or the man in the middle, well if you think so, nice for you but it has nothing to do with the discussion.
    Just get in mind that not everyone share your opinion on what is skill and healthy and the more nerf and gameplay destruction happen, the more people will be against your argumentation.

    And i already said i have no problem at all with you disagreeing to me. But you deny that i have any arguments at all, that i only cry and that i don't give suggestions how to rework/ nerf stuff and that makes me pretty mad because that is objectively and obviously not true. We agree to disagree not the first time and i always was ok with that. No hard and hurt feelings. There are ways to counter a healthy amount of stealth not the abuse you have on PU but anyway just agree to disagree.
    I said Core Mes doesn't lose dmg in a remarkable way when switching to Chaos makes a high reward oneshot build low risk. That is not a balanced substitution. Chaosline is overperforming, on Condibuilds just as on Powerbuilds (for different reasons) in my opinion and i would like to rework it so it doesn't have unhealthy mechanics anymore (like old CI or PU), is more active in its sustain but without just nerfing it to death like they did with EM. You disagree? Fine for me.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    Again why are you persuaded that chaosline give more burst than mirage ? Where are the damage trait in chaosline ?
    There is many way to counter stealth, particulary considering mesmer isn't as mobile as thief during stealth.
    And yeah I think that once CI was shown destroyed in mat because people build against it (for me the only way he get in semi (note that he didn't win the mat with it) is because it was a new thing and people aren't prepared.), the "hype" should have come down but we never knew this.
    About your text on which we are all devil guys and you are the light in the darkness or the man in the middle, well if you think so, nice for you but it has nothing to do with the discussion.
    Just get in mind that not everyone share your opinion on what is skill and healthy and the more nerf and gameplay destruction happen, the more people will be against your argumentation.

    And i already said i have no problem at all with you disagreeing to me. But you deny that i have any arguments at all, that i only cry and that i don't give suggestions how to rework/ nerf stuff and that makes me pretty mad because that is objectively and obviously not true. We agree to disagree not the first time and i always was ok with that. No hard and hurt feelings. There are ways to counter a healthy amount of stealth not the abuse you have on PU but anyway just agree to disagree.
    I said Core Mes doesn't lose dmg in a remarkable way when switching to Chaos makes a high reward oneshot build low risk. That is not a balanced substitution. Chaosline is overperforming, on Condibuilds just as on Powerbuilds (for different reasons) in my opinion and i would like to rework it so it doesn't have unhealthy mechanics anymore (like old CI or PU), is more active in its sustain but without just nerfing it to death like they did with EM. You disagree? Fine for me.

    I disagree because your rework suggestion aren't good, you aren't clear about what a "more active sustain should be" and anet proves that when he touch something it end up being dead or lose all synergy.
    Chaosline is not overperforming it's just the only gameplay defining traitline we have left with mirage.
    I don't consider loosing vuln stack and 4 to 8k pressure damage as a "no damage lost" when switching from mirage to core so again I disagree.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    I que when I get home from uni. I try not to que past 6pm est because the matchmaking quality goes down the drain.

    1. I'm on a full glass build with a single stunbreak/mobility skill. If I mess up or am forced to stay in a fight that I shouldn't stay in, I'll probably die. I still kill way more than I die so I'm doing my job of snowballing the enemy teams. Unfortunately, the lack of mobility means I can't rotate to match decaps that well on the core build at least.
    2. I get hit mid-dodge a lot on this ping.
    3. Packet loss also causes a lot of my skills to cast late/with a delay/cancel early because the skills activate when I start to move again.

    Either way, my highest rank on EU so far was around 60 or so on this "trash" mantra build. Vallun was rank 50 on EU last time I checked and he's not considered very good on NA so please, don't lie to yourself about one region being significantly better than the other.

    There are a lot of people that play on both EU and NA for fun. It's pretty well known that the players on EU happen to be a lot more toxic and tend to rage/flame/AFK more compared to people on NA. Also, the quality of pugs are literally garbage. Majority of them don't even know how to recover from a snowball and feed one by one across 3 points rather than just waiting and pushing home. I've found it rare on EU to have a side noder that can hold a node/watch for decaps let alone kill someone in a 1v1.

    Like that match with Tramadex and his ranger duo, they were duo side noders and neither of them stopped the thief from decapping a single time. Funnily enough, that ranger flamed me after the match even though he was literally stalemate 1v1ing the enemy team's warrior on THEIR node for almost a minute straight. Then he says I'm throwing lmao... Our core guardian was forced to keep capping home and this ranger continues to die over and over in 2v2s/team fights and refuses to just leave their warrior afk on mid so that he can actually be useful somewhere else. Trama even threw one of the bells by letting the ranger I oneshot self rez. He had to go back and full cleave the ranger rather than holding bell (50 points for the enemy team) like I was trying to do so they wouldn't get it for free.

    So funny the amount of excuses you use when you are trying to prove a build is beyond op, plus you just named the reasons why it's balanced, you are a glass cannon and if you miss you are dead... what do you want to be removed? the glassy part? the cannon part? or both? if you remove both you just get the dying part over and over again...
    also if it is so overpowered why can't you carry games? i remember back when power mesmer/mirage were really overpowered i carried matchs 4v5 anytime, now we are balanced please stop this stupid witch hunt, we are barely playable, why don't you prove how broken holos are? much easier and needed

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876

    "Shadowpass just agreed to Viquing that Mesmer is completely fine in all aspects."

    No, I didn't. The only part I cared about/read/agreed with Viquing is when he said that most of your arguments are entirely subjective.

    Linking a whole bunch of my posts in an attempt to back up your misunderstanding still doesn't help you when your foundation wasn't there to begin with.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    I que when I get home from uni. I try not to que past 6pm est because the matchmaking quality goes down the drain.

    1. I'm on a full glass build with a single stunbreak/mobility skill. If I mess up or am forced to stay in a fight that I shouldn't stay in, I'll probably die. I still kill way more than I die so I'm doing my job of snowballing the enemy teams. Unfortunately, the lack of mobility means I can't rotate to match decaps that well on the core build at least.
    2. I get hit mid-dodge a lot on this ping.
    3. Packet loss also causes a lot of my skills to cast late/with a delay/cancel early because the skills activate when I start to move again.

    Either way, my highest rank on EU so far was around 60 or so on this "trash" mantra build. Vallun was rank 50 on EU last time I checked and he's not considered very good on NA so please, don't lie to yourself about one region being significantly better than the other.

    There are a lot of people that play on both EU and NA for fun. It's pretty well known that the players on EU happen to be a lot more toxic and tend to rage/flame/AFK more compared to people on NA. Also, the quality of pugs are literally garbage. Majority of them don't even know how to recover from a snowball and feed one by one across 3 points rather than just waiting and pushing home. I've found it rare on EU to have a side noder that can hold a node/watch for decaps let alone kill someone in a 1v1.

    Like that match with Tramadex and his ranger duo, they were duo side noders and neither of them stopped the thief from decapping a single time. Funnily enough, that ranger flamed me after the match even though he was literally stalemate 1v1ing the enemy team's warrior on THEIR node for almost a minute straight. Then he says I'm throwing lmao... Our core guardian was forced to keep capping home and this ranger continues to die over and over in 2v2s/team fights and refuses to just leave their warrior afk on mid so that he can actually be useful somewhere else. Trama even threw one of the bells by letting the ranger I oneshot self rez. He had to go back and full cleave the ranger rather than holding bell (50 points for the enemy team) like I was trying to do so they wouldn't get it for free.

    So funny the amount of excuses you use when you are trying to prove a build is beyond op, plus you just named the reasons why it's balanced, you are a glass cannon and if you miss you are dead... what do you want to be removed? the glassy part? the cannon part? or both? if you remove both you just get the dying part over and over again...
    also if it is so overpowered why can't you carry games? i remember back when mesmers where really overpowered i carried matchs 4v5 anytime, now we are balanced please stop this stupid witch hunt, we are barely playable, why don't you prove how broken holos are? much easier and needed

    The ranger flamed me first when they were unable to watch home/dead in every team fight.

    I want the spike to not be entirely frontloaded where you can execute like 8 different buttons and they all hit relatively simultaneously from stealth.

    It is very difficult to carry games solo que if your teammates are perma dead. Do you not see my K/D ratios? I'm clearly doing my job of getting/contributing to kills, not feeding myself, decapping, and trying to continue/start snowballs. Then, compare that to what my teammates are doing and you'll see why we have as many points as we do.

    I've killed holos in 1v1s fairly reliably with mantra mes. Even on high ping, it's easy to interrupt the Corona Burst and predict/interrupt the Healing Turret. Bait out an Elixir S with a single burst prior to this, burst them after they dodge/use their block and you basically win.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @kraai.7265 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:
    i mean ur downstate to absolute tr a s h players and complain about na being better is this hidden camera or some sort of joke?

    i just casually open ur vid and see this
    https://youtu.be/B6jBuHxV6rE?t=166
    i mean i dont even want to continue looking

    not to mention u queue at the absolute most dead hours, imagine that

    I que when I get home from uni. I try not to que past 6pm est because the matchmaking quality goes down the drain.

    1. I'm on a full glass build with a single stunbreak/mobility skill. If I mess up or am forced to stay in a fight that I shouldn't stay in, I'll probably die. I still kill way more than I die so I'm doing my job of snowballing the enemy teams. Unfortunately, the lack of mobility means I can't rotate to match decaps that well on the core build at least.
    2. I get hit mid-dodge a lot on this ping.
    3. Packet loss also causes a lot of my skills to cast late/with a delay/cancel early because the skills activate when I start to move again.

    Either way, my highest rank on EU so far was around 60 or so on this "trash" mantra build. Vallun was rank 50 on EU last time I checked and he's not considered very good on NA so please, don't lie to yourself about one region being significantly better than the other.

    There are a lot of people that play on both EU and NA for fun. It's pretty well known that the players on EU happen to be a lot more toxic and tend to rage/flame/AFK more compared to people on NA. Also, the quality of pugs are literally garbage. Majority of them don't even know how to recover from a snowball and feed one by one across 3 points rather than just waiting and pushing home. I've found it rare on EU to have a side noder that can hold a node/watch for decaps let alone kill someone in a 1v1.

    Like that match with Tramadex and his ranger duo, they were duo side noders and neither of them stopped the thief from decapping a single time. Funnily enough, that ranger flamed me after the match even though he was literally stalemate 1v1ing the enemy team's warrior on THEIR node for almost a minute straight. Then he says I'm throwing lmao... Our core guardian was forced to keep capping home and this ranger continues to die over and over in 2v2s/team fights and refuses to just leave their warrior afk on mid so that he can actually be useful somewhere else. Trama even threw one of the bells by letting the ranger I oneshot self rez. He had to go back and full cleave the ranger rather than holding bell (50 points for the enemy team) like I was trying to do so they wouldn't get it for free.

    So funny the amount of excuses you use when you are trying to prove a build is beyond op, plus you just named the reasons why it's balanced, you are a glass cannon and if you miss you are dead... what do you want to be removed? the glassy part? the cannon part? or both? if you remove both you just get the dying part over and over again...
    also if it is so overpowered why can't you carry games? i remember back when mesmers where really overpowered i carried matchs 4v5 anytime, now we are balanced please stop this stupid witch hunt, we are barely playable, why don't you prove how broken holos are? much easier and needed

    The ranger flamed me first when they were unable to watch home/dead in every team fight.

    idk about that, not my problem

    I want the spike to not be entirely frontloaded where you can execute like 8 different buttons and they all hit relatively simultaneously from stealth.

    well that spike is all we got right now that keeps our class playable on power builds against this stupid meta were almost every class hits as a truck yet has bunker capabilities, what do you suggest to be changed in order so we can still compete and not become trash as chrono did? also we might have tons of 1 sec skills yet most classes has tons of passive defence/blocks/evasions/heals and more, i really don't see the problem with it.

    It is very difficult to carry games solo que if your teammates are perma dead. Do you not see my K/D ratios? I'm clearly doing my job of getting/contributing to kills, not feeding myself, decapping, and trying to continue/start snowballs. Then, compare that to what my teammates are doing and you'll see why we have as many points as we do.

    as i told you, i remember when power mirage was truly op, and core mes was even stronger and i carried multiple 4v5 games with no problem at all, that was overpowered, now we might get kills but thats it, we can't carry games, or wreck people in 1v2, again i don't see the problem, with my condi thief i get same or more kills and i carry uneven 4v5 games, i call that op

    I've killed holos in 1v1s fairly reliably with mantra mes. Even on high ping, it's easy to interrupt the Corona Burst and predict/interrupt the Healing Turret. Bait out an Elixir S with a single burst prior to this, burst them after they dodge/use their block and you basically win.

    well im having a lot of trouble with holos, specially with the insane amounts of stab they have, and i really belive they play in easy mode, but im sure those are my own l2p issues so i won't discuss it with you

    lastly i'll leave this so you can think about it
    "First, which should be obvious, even if one player can take a build to high rank, unless you can indicate a large number of players that can do that, it is a statistical anomaly."
    this days i rarely see power mesmers on higher pvp tiers.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2019

    Please take note shadow basically already left the game while y'all are bragging that you are right in a crappy PvP setting.

    Someone get me my clown emote. 🤡

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @bravan.3876 :
    Again why are you persuaded that chaosline give more burst than mirage ? Where are the damage trait in chaosline ?
    There is many way to counter stealth, particulary considering mesmer isn't as mobile as thief during stealth.
    And yeah I think that once CI was shown destroyed in mat because people build against it (for me the only way he get in semi (note that he didn't win the mat with it) is because it was a new thing and people aren't prepared.), the "hype" should have come down but we never knew this.
    About your text on which we are all devil guys and you are the light in the darkness or the man in the middle, well if you think so, nice for you but it has nothing to do with the discussion.
    Just get in mind that not everyone share your opinion on what is skill and healthy and the more nerf and gameplay destruction happen, the more people will be against your argumentation.

    And i already said i have no problem at all with you disagreeing to me. But you deny that i have any arguments at all, that i only cry and that i don't give suggestions how to rework/ nerf stuff and that makes me pretty mad because that is objectively and obviously not true. We agree to disagree not the first time and i always was ok with that. No hard and hurt feelings. There are ways to counter a healthy amount of stealth not the abuse you have on PU but anyway just agree to disagree.
    I said Core Mes doesn't lose dmg in a remarkable way when switching to Chaos makes a high reward oneshot build low risk. That is not a balanced substitution. Chaosline is overperforming, on Condibuilds just as on Powerbuilds (for different reasons) in my opinion and i would like to rework it so it doesn't have unhealthy mechanics anymore (like old CI or PU), is more active in its sustain but without just nerfing it to death like they did with EM. You disagree? Fine for me.

    I disagree because your rework suggestion aren't good, you aren't clear about what a "more active sustain should be" and anet proves that when he touch something it end up being dead or lose all synergy.
    Chaosline is not overperforming it's just the only gameplay defining traitline we have left with mirage.
    I don't consider loosing vuln stack and 4 to 8k pressure damage as a "no damage lost" when switching from mirage to core so again I disagree.

    You don't like my suggestions, that is something different than saying i don't provide some or i don't have arguments. Once again: I am totally fine with you disagree to me, i have no problem with that at all. We both made our points (that is how it is supposed to be) and Anet will decide by their own probably ignoring both of us anyway.

    @shadowpass.4236 one last time because you tryhard to missunderstand the point i was making: i clearly showed that you said the exact same things/ complained about the exact same things in terms of Chaosline than me. Seems we both have no or only subjective arguments then. Once again you just shoot yourself in the foot by contradictinf yourself. That aside from all other points i already mentioned where you contradicted yourself. There is nothing more to say, it is a waste of time to talk to you for already mentioned reasons. If you need the last word in hope you can confuse some ppl with it, go ahead, i don't care about you anymore. Go to your other game already.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • bighead.3465bighead.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    Lol you can keep reporting my posts and editing yours out. B) You claim I've never beaten you, but I actually did. I dueled you on my alt and won by decision (point capture and damage done) you ended up messaging me and adding me in game. Yet when you know its me, completely different perspective. Here is a video showcasing said duel, where you spent the entirety on the defense and running away. You dealt I think maybe 15% of my hp max? I took you several times down below 60%, even perfectly timing a reflect of your 5 axe front arc skill. This is while you were using a copy pasted build.

    Your post history shows that you've quit several times "permanently" and I expect this is another one of those. Your post history shows that every nerf to ranger seemed to ruin your experience. The definition of a crutch skill is one you depend on. Based on your reaction to every nerf and subsequent quitting of the class, one can assume you were highly dependent on an exploit. And without real builds or an adaptive approach.....well you're going to AAU aren't you? B)

  • bighead.3465bighead.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The degenerate

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The only person to blame usually when your post gets removed is yourself for not conducting yourself in a manner agreed upon by yourself and ANet in the EULA for the forums. Same if you ever get banned repeatedly.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The only person to blame usually when your post gets removed is yourself for not conducting yourself in a manner agreed upon by yourself and ANet in the EULA for the forums. Same if you ever get banned repeatedly.

    I got warned by quoting someone that broke rules, could be a trigger happy moderator, but since he gets rebanned time and time again, i doubt it

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The only person to blame usually when your post gets removed is yourself for not conducting yourself in a manner agreed upon by yourself and ANet in the EULA for the forums. Same if you ever get banned repeatedly.

    BS, pure and simple.
    Can't answer why because you can't discuss moderation.
    Let's just say having friends in higher places help.
    Edit: Can send you pm in case you're curious.

    The degenerate

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    Delete....

    The degenerate

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The only person to blame usually when your post gets removed is yourself for not conducting yourself in a manner agreed upon by yourself and ANet in the EULA for the forums. Same if you ever get banned repeatedly.

    This was more a thing about truth hurts. Lot of posts just describted the way he acted in this forum, showing his post history without insult or flame and he even asked for getting quoted. So i have to agree to @Lincolnbeard.1735 in this one, that it was more a matter of no arguments than get insulted or flamed. The conclusions like him being insanely deconstructive and other stuff why it is a waste of time discussing with him are obvious. Also he is the one banned right?

    Anyway i think this thread really can be closed. Not only because discussing with Op leads nowhere but also because he clearly proved that his claims were wrong with his videos. You can't see him carrying games by frequently oneshotting decent player at all and that with him using Chaosline making hit the oneshot combo even less predictable and for that easier than without it. With Mantra Mirage he probabaly would not get a single oneshot on players with one braincell and a bit of awareness left because then he can't even stack stealth completely out of ear shot and visible range to oneshot compeltely out of nowhere, you can't do that with only one 3 secs stealth from torch. Also you can't bait out the same amount of defensive cds with only 3 secs stealth every 30 secs, means then he has to outplay ppl way more active then with just staying in longer stealth to bait cds. And except for Mantra of Pain (as only secondary mechanic) no Mantra has even any relation to the oneshot and how hard it is to hit.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The only person to blame usually when your post gets removed is yourself for not conducting yourself in a manner agreed upon by yourself and ANet in the EULA for the forums. Same if you ever get banned repeatedly.

    BS, pure and simple.
    Can't answer why because you can't discuss moderation.
    Let's just say having friends in higher places help.
    Edit: Can send you pm in case you're curious.

    I have had my posts removed for quoting others that broke ToS but you don't get moderation points for them.

    I've had some posts removed because some people have no humour or they've been taken out of context.

    However if you're having posts deleted and warnings at a frequency of over once a month then it's usually your fault. Same for bans like the OP seems to get every other week.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The only person to blame usually when your post gets removed is yourself for not conducting yourself in a manner agreed upon by yourself and ANet in the EULA for the forums. Same if you ever get banned repeatedly.

    BS, pure and simple.
    Can't answer why because you can't discuss moderation.
    Let's just say having friends in higher places help.
    Edit: Can send you pm in case you're curious.

    I have had my posts removed for quoting others that broke ToS but you don't get moderation points for them.

    I've had some posts removed because some people have no humour or they've been taken out of context.

    However if you're having posts deleted and warnings at a frequency of over once a month then it's usually your fault. Same for bans like the OP seems to get every other week.

    Well, I got banned one week because of one post I did on this thread for "derailing", it was the post I made saying that people should just check Ops history and ignore his complains. The Op responded to my post in the same tone and didn't even got moderated.
    In this same thread a friend of mine got banned for like two weeks by the same mod that banned me.
    (Of course we reported the mod).

    Inb4 gets moderated for discussing moderation.

    The degenerate

  • bighead.3465bighead.3465 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    Somehow, 99% of the game has been convinced that people like this are the best in the game. So many of these types of players talked so much toxicity to and about me. Yet when I use the disguise of anonymity, a completely different reality is exposed. As you can clearly see in your duel, I have him on the defensive the entire duel and every exchange leave him with 60% hp while I barely pass 10-15% dmg done to mine. I out played him so badly that he messaged me twice for my build and to teach him. And even follows me in-game. Isn't it funny to see the opposing perspective of his displayed on his thread?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    @bighead.3465 said:
    Somehow, 99% of the game has been convinced that people like this are the best in the game. So many of these types of players talked so much toxicity to and about me. Yet when I use the disguise of anonymity, a completely different reality is exposed. As you can clearly see in your duel, I have him on the defensive the entire duel and every exchange leave him with 60% hp while I barely pass 10-15% dmg done to mine. He out played him so badly that he messaged me twice for my build and to teach him. And even follows me in-game. Isn't it funny to see the opposing perspective of his displayed on his thread?

    I keep seeing u boasting about you're godly pvp skills in this game, this game.... gw2.
    If ur just trolling props to ur forum name and keep it up as its entertaining which is more than I can say for the game itself.
    If ur being serious and being good at gw2 pvp is the priority in ur life u make it seem to be and it gives u the confidence u need in life I also say that's awsome for u man, seriously:)
    U go get em big guy.

  • bighead.3465bighead.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:
    Somehow, 99% of the game has been convinced that people like this are the best in the game. So many of these types of players talked so much toxicity to and about me. Yet when I use the disguise of anonymity, a completely different reality is exposed. As you can clearly see in your duel, I have him on the defensive the entire duel and every exchange leave him with 60% hp while I barely pass 10-15% dmg done to mine. He out played him so badly that he messaged me twice for my build and to teach him. And even follows me in-game. Isn't it funny to see the opposing perspective of his displayed on his thread?

    I keep seeing u boasting about you're godly pvp skills in this game, this game.... gw2.
    If ur just trolling props to ur forum name and keep it up as its entertaining which is more than I can say for the game itself.
    If ur being serious and being good at gw2 pvp is the priority in ur life u make it seem to be and it gives u the confidence u need in life I also say that's awsome for u man, seriously:)
    U go get em big guy.

    Read this very carefully, as it may net you quite a large sum of money: I will pay you and any player in the history of this game 10 grand USD if you show me even one millisecond of footage where I ever use the word "God" to describe my skill.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:
    Somehow, 99% of the game has been convinced that people like this are the best in the game. So many of these types of players talked so much toxicity to and about me. Yet when I use the disguise of anonymity, a completely different reality is exposed. As you can clearly see in your duel, I have him on the defensive the entire duel and every exchange leave him with 60% hp while I barely pass 10-15% dmg done to mine. He out played him so badly that he messaged me twice for my build and to teach him. And even follows me in-game. Isn't it funny to see the opposing perspective of his displayed on his thread?

    I keep seeing u boasting about you're godly pvp skills in this game, this game.... gw2.
    If ur just trolling props to ur forum name and keep it up as its entertaining which is more than I can say for the game itself.
    If ur being serious and being good at gw2 pvp is the priority in ur life u make it seem to be and it gives u the confidence u need in life I also say that's awsome for u man, seriously:)
    U go get em big guy.

    Read this very carefully, as it may net you quite a large sum of money: I will pay you and any player in the history of this game 10 grand USD if you show me even one millisecond of footage where I ever use the word "God" to describe my skill.

    Oh my apologies as I was not quoting u as that just the impression ur post give to me and obviously I could be alone in that :)
    If I am mistaken and completely miss read your post as boasting instead of being anything but in a bad pvp game I do apologize )

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Like someone said if you win is because the build is op and you're carrying, if you lose is because of matchmaking.

    Overall thanks for the thread you just achieved the opposite of what you were trying to prove o/

    I said it and he reported my post to get it removed. The truth is in his post history and even his streams. He does it EVERY loss

    He likes a lot the report button, seems like his button instead of "flag" has written something like "I have no arguments".

    The only person to blame usually when your post gets removed is yourself for not conducting yourself in a manner agreed upon by yourself and ANet in the EULA for the forums. Same if you ever get banned repeatedly.

    BS, pure and simple.
    Can't answer why because you can't discuss moderation.
    Let's just say having friends in higher places help.
    Edit: Can send you pm in case you're curious.

    I have had my posts removed for quoting others that broke ToS but you don't get moderation points for them.

    I've had some posts removed because some people have no humour or they've been taken out of context.

    However if you're having posts deleted and warnings at a frequency of over once a month then it's usually your fault. Same for bans like the OP seems to get every other week.

    Well, I got banned one week because of one post I did on this thread for "derailing", it was the post I made saying that people should just check Ops history and ignore his complains. The Op responded to my post in the same tone and didn't even got moderated.
    In this same thread a friend of mine got banned for like two weeks by the same mod that banned me.
    (Of course we reported the mod).

    Inb4 gets moderated for discussing moderation.

    Yeah there's bad eggs everywhere and overzealous moderation does happen but by and large I don't see you getting moderated a lot to be honest, not on the same league as some people who complain and say butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. Then when you see the post it's 80% the word kitten. Then they wonder why they're banned.

    Edit: Yeah you're right though, we should probably stop discussing the topic, moderators if you're reading this, lesson learned you don't need to act.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bighead.3465 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @bighead.3465 said:
    Somehow, 99% of the game has been convinced that people like this are the best in the game. So many of these types of players talked so much toxicity to and about me. Yet when I use the disguise of anonymity, a completely different reality is exposed. As you can clearly see in your duel, I have him on the defensive the entire duel and every exchange leave him with 60% hp while I barely pass 10-15% dmg done to mine. He out played him so badly that he messaged me twice for my build and to teach him. And even follows me in-game. Isn't it funny to see the opposing perspective of his displayed on his thread?

    I keep seeing u boasting about you're godly pvp skills in this game, this game.... gw2.
    If ur just trolling props to ur forum name and keep it up as its entertaining which is more than I can say for the game itself.
    If ur being serious and being good at gw2 pvp is the priority in ur life u make it seem to be and it gives u the confidence u need in life I also say that's awsome for u man, seriously:)
    U go get em big guy.

    Read this very carefully, as it may net you quite a large sum of money: I will pay you and any player in the history of this game 10 grand USD if you show me even one millisecond of footage where I ever use the word "God" to describe my skill.

    Pff! Dollar - weak currency.

    The degenerate