World Vs World ~Reborn — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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World Vs World ~Reborn

Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

So let me say first off Im going to try and keep this at a moderate length, originally I thought about doing a video discussing it and If everyone would like ill gladly go and do it. This way I can showcase the issues at hand, where they are and how the features function now. Although I don't feel its needed because almost everyone here probably is familar with and plays WvW; Not this is where we will get a bit spicy. The changes I will put forward will not be for everyone, but for those of us who dedicate ourselves to WvW its designed to give us more to do and for us to have more nuance and spice of life in our preferred game mode. (I know some people will get whiny with me, and Im going to say this now. I. DO. NOT.CARE. If you don't play WvW then it won't effect you. If you do then this will be a boon, with that lets get into it.)

  • One of the main issues we have now is with the current map builds, they are all too small to justify the mount we have and with it being the case the mount itself feels like more of a hindrance than a boon. What I propose is that we extend the maps and make them larger more spread out with more objectives through out the entirety of the map, Edge of the mists is a good example of large scale.

  • Edge of the mists should be removed as hardly anyone goes onto that map; Move it over into a changing poll for eternal battleground so that it will be used and more importantly seen by the player base. The map is wonderful and encompasses what WvW should be in a very early sense, It's dynamic and has tons of fun nuance and objectives to claim and fight over with a lot of tactical need within it.

    • The trait system needs to be completely reworked, as it stands now all it stands for is a band-aid fix for a sense of progression and we all know that A-net can and has done better on this department. Progression is key to retention, I would much prefer if the mastery and trait tree offer more unique benefits than simply "You can take less damage from guard" or "You can auto-loot" all features that should be baseline. These benefits could range from "Inspiring presence" which buffs allies and npcs around you just for being there, Or "Champions challenge" where you gain the special action key and make a ring around you and an enemy. This ring can't be crossed by other players and only you two can hurt one another for a set amount of time; Think of it as a challenge for One V one but imagine doing this when you know full well all you can do is stall for time. You can pull an enemy into this ring, and I promise others will stop and try to kill you; You might die but you could give you allies enough time to get in and protect to objective.(These are rough ideas)

                                                                                                                              #  Rewards and Objectives
      

When it comes to rewards within WvW we have a very unique issue, because we really don't have much going for WvW as a mode. Legendary armor and a legendary back-piece is a start and I feel this also carries over to PvP as well. We have those two but the rest of our rewards are PvE reward tracks (Outside of the triumphant armor/weps and the gift of battle line.) which really don't articulate or reflect the mode that well. There are several things we could be granted that might allow us to feel more distinct and maybe, just maybe entice others to try and actually stick with the mode. Not everyone is like me who is in it for a good fight and I understand that, its all about what they can achieve and what kind of goodies they can get. Below I will detail some reward Ideas that will probably and should be looked at by A-net.

  1. A Generation of Legendary weapons: This goes without saying WvW should have some legendary weapons, considering we are in the mists and the god realms as well every other realm we have ever been connected too is tethered here as well? We could get the scepter of orr, perhaps even magdhar the sister sword to sohothin or hell maybe the sword of jora? All of these weapons can be brought into the game, and explained that those who delve into the mists long enough find relics long since thought lost. (It would be a good way to get people to have long term goals.)
  2. More armor skins: This one im surprised never gets brought up, why does WvW only have one set of unique looking armor? Why can't we get a few more that are tied to the ever evolving conflict in the mists?
  3. More Titles: More never hurts, since mini-pets mean nothing in this game (Unlike its predecessor) titles are really all the prestige we have.
  4. WvW Infusions: Now not stat increases but like aura's such as the ones that can drop within PvE; Perhaps one thats a "Glint Infusion" or a "Svanir" infusion ones unique to the game that stand out and can be distinctly told apart from their PvE counter parts.
  5. Mount skins for the warclaw: There should be some Warclaw skins that ARE earn-able in the mode; Though long, long,long,long achievements that take a long while to get to the end of I know this might hit their money earning end but it wouldn't hurt. (Though it might start a dumpster fire in PvE so perhaps this is not the best idea.)

Objectives is another problem as well map construction, both feel incredibly dated on the alpine and Eternal battleground maps. These objectives for one feel like a pain in the butt to defend and offer little to the defenders; But also are just more points to be gotten and then forgotten by the attackers. So lets take this and flip it on its head; Lets start with how the map looks and we will use Eternal battleground since everyone loves it so much. Ill paint you a picture while also giving a bit of lore, so that way it has some sense of story at least for you to meddle with in your mind.

"With the event of kralkatorick breaking his way into the mists and rampaging through the various realms adjacent and attached to it, the dragon had upset the natural flow and balance of the eternal mist war. His twisted and tormented visage extending its shadowy reach from the very depths of its center; Gnawing at the foundations that had once kept it as a pure reflection and turning it into a twisted aberration. He shattered several pieces of the god realms within this singular moment when aurene and the commander gave chase, and in the turmoil the Eternal battlegrounds has become a focal point of the fallout. The northern areas of the this place of war have become frozen, with rigid mountains and vast tundra's as spires of the underworld have been constructed by those who had come to "land" here. Though the armies of the underworld dwell here most have succumb to the maddening whispers of the Dragonspawn (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragonspawn) This ice-brood minion had been killed by Eir during the Events of Edge of destiny, and has now come to take residence in the vast mountain range. Forming a cult which fights to spread its dominion over the mists and conquer it in the name of Jormag; Despite its lack of connection to the dragon and the current time. Players will of the "Ice-born" faction will be tasked with subjugating the local population of creatures, and breaking the remnants of the underworld to the wills of their master as well finding and taming Svanir the ferocious and horrific nornbear. Within the south Eastern corner of the map a familar war-cry can be heard as charr from long ago muster their strength, with the old shaman caste leading the "army" who seek dominion over their new "home". Hierophant Burntsoul( https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hierophant_Burntsoul) has come to call upon any and all who would fight for his twisted ambitions of grandeur. He wishes to burn the world asunder and break the foundations of the world as we know it, so he may return to the realm that once banished him little does he know this is impossible. Players of this faction will be asked to awaken the titans, and subjugate the various remnants of the shadow army that linger here and try to set up a suitable base. One such being Shakahm the summoner(https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shakahm_the_Summoner) has stood in stark opposition of the hierophant's designs, he will be made to serve and his army and power will serve to be a starting ember to the charr's hunger to burn out the enemies laid before him. The final faction at war here would be the army of Glint, headed by the prophet glint herself.(https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glint) Her armies goal is to stop the ice-born cult and the seekers of the flame, and prevent the mists from being thrown into more turmoil as it recovers from Kralkatoricks attacks. Players will be asked to recruit heroes from long ago such as Jalis Ironhammer, Jora, Eir, Snaff, Asgeir Dragonrender, Turai Orsa and many others to join the battle against the coming storm. As well to help her create an army who is immune to maddening whispers and corruptive magics of both factions. In the end players will be sent to seek out the forgotten who now linger in the mists, hidden but not lost they will be the final hope of success in these dire times."

So now that we have the map's history and "story" / "lore" out of the way its time to move on to what it will look like. In the western corner we will have a place similar but not fully like Glint's lair, it will have various trees and different fauna there along with cavern systems to traverse incase of emergency. The far north will have Jormag corruption and various mountains, caves and darkly lit objectives with fog and rolling snow-storms to deter invaders. Along with the roaming bands of Icebrood and underworld creatures that will make traversal hard for foreign powers. Within the charrs domain we will have many forms of siege, and the growing threat of the titans being ever present this place will look much like the fissure of woe but with a hint of old ascalon within its red and orange hued nature. Down the middle of the map where Stone-mist castle once was will be a Massive brand-scar that is in a way holding these realms together as branded surge from the broken remnants of the surrounding area. Stone-mist still exists and is one of the major points of capture but because of its location, players will have to help their faction build up a size-able force and amount of resources to not only take it but maintain it. With the forces of the branded being a noticeable threat to all three sides at times champions will become branded in the area and Turn on their allies; As well various players can become branded to cause infighting among their ranks unless the proper upgrades have been reached.

Smaller Objectives:

  • Seven Camps for each faction in their respective domain
  • Fourteen Towers in total in each domain, each with varying tiers. Tier three not only expands its size but makes the walls higher, weapons stronger and makes it possible to position powerful guards and champions unique to the faction.
  • Camps of unique and neutral enemies to be claimed and subjugated acrossed the map. (Five in each region.) These could include Centaur, Ogre's, Harpies, Jotuun, Shadow army remnants, Underworld forces, Nightmares and many more. They not only function like they do now but they roam and muster their forces to launch soft attacks at objectives and fortify the towers. Once claimed they will remain claimed for the faction for around an hour, after the hour timer it can be claimed again by another faction and should this happen the enemies fortifications will despawn(Npcs) but any buildings and additions they managed to make will stay.
  • Various Quests issued to go and collect resources, to provide unique siege and powerful weapons to be used by the players of the respective factions. (Themed around each)

Big Objectives/Long term goals:

  • Two large and challenging bosses that roam specific portions of the domain, killing these bosses bestow their power to the faction of the region. Transforming players into monsters with unique skills and traits designed around specific play-styles. For example, Svanir is one and once a player kills him they are given the power of the norn-bear and become icebrood minions with unique benefits depending on which one they choose (Between three) this then offers A "Zerg rush" like theme where for a set time you will pour from the mountains to try and overwhelm opponents structures and claim them before you loose the power or are killed. Each factions champions have unique benefits, Svanir's is that his buff also makes players immune to condition damage meaning artillery and siege is the way to go to deal with them. ( The other Snowy region boss is a Jotuun high king, The summoner and a titan for the charr and for glint it is the Forgotten and some branded champion she wishes to bend to her sides wishes.) Should the enemy kill your champion it will remain dead for 24 hours and will be unable to be captured until they re-spawn, this enforces the idea of fighting over them and trying to build up to do one of two things. Either A: Capture yours to gain their power or B: Kill your enemies so they can't capture it for a full day.
  • Two keeps, each with unique traits and landscapes built for varying levels of play.
  • Four Fortress's for each faction with three doors each, these surround the inner sanctum which are paramount in defending ones lore.
  • Once the four fortress's fall the lord will be vulnerable to attack, but be warned he is extremely strong and capable of dealing with players with interactive game-play. If he has defenders he will be even harder to deal with. Should the lord fall that faction will be pushed back to the smaller borderlands for two hours and unable to enter the eternal battlegrounds until their lord can recover; They can however use the resources left over to build up their home borderlands and even bring their champions there to help in their cause. The home borderlands for each will be changed a bit cosmetically to match the theme of Eternal battlegrounds.

In conclusion the idea is the reinforce the reasons to play, This would mean we need to work on the maps and the layout of them. Class balance while being a big issue is no where near as big at this point when compared to burn out and lack of replay-ability. The maps eventually grow stale, the lack of objectives become a nuisance and many players ignore key objectives because they want a fight. The Idea here is to make building and maintaining objectives good for the small scale groups, while the big zergs roam and try to fight for the objectives this also gives PvE players a chance to really get their feet wet with PvE style objectives that directly benefit the Battleground, for taking these gives buffs for the zergs and defenders.

                                                                                                                                             # Bonus/Extra Goodies
  • Caverns and underground objectives could be fun, could add depth as well as new ways to play and fight.
  • Large areas filled with trees that can be set up for ambushes could be excellent for large fights, and could help make them last longer
  • Making it so each factions PvE side can directly benefit the forces fighting in the mists by doing events in Tyria, which cause various benefits and resources to trickle in. So even if you don't like WvW you're still able to participate without having to go out. (The same could be said about strictly PvP players.) Stop barring us from each other and let us be more interactive so that there is no more "I don't care about PvE" because those players do directly help you in maybe not a large way but in a nice enough way to make it worth-while. This would encourage the player-base to care for one another, maybe offer benefits for PvE based on how their faction is doing in both the other game modes? (Extra chance for better loot, and better rewards?)
  • Split the servers equally among the factions, and make it so once your account is linked to a faction you will not be able to leave said faction. This would make it so the disparity would dissipate and the server transfers would not effect that. Seperate the big servers with the most population equally among the three factions, or make it that once a faction becomes to large other people can't join that faction until the others catch up. You could make this a pledge when you enter WvW where you as the player choose the faction you wish to support, or could be done some other way.

The disparity no matter what changes you make will make it impossible to balance, or fix WvW and it needs to be addressed and has needed to be addressed.

Thank you for reading and Id love to get constructive feedback on this post, your ideas and thoughts. Id also like the make this as much of a detailed and articulate thread about what we the player-base would like to see. The more we give A-net the more likely they will be to implement and make changes accordingly, if we show we care about this game mode and that we want it to be good then things could get better. You have to understand Im pretty sure they are terrified to add ANYTHING new because of what happened when edge of the mists and the desert borderlands were added. People complained so hard, and people still to this day give them flack but those are two of the best maps they've added or made for WvW and so with the fear of doing something new, because of the outrage culture over things we should be HAPPY about im sure thats a large part of why we don't see changes often. We have to let them know we want change, balance is a big issue and I do agree but its not the largest on their plate of problems. Replay-ability, reasons to play, reasons to keep going and keep fighting are all big issues. Hell we don't even hold objectives anymore, we just go for the big zerg V zerg so when it comes down to it the mode has more issues than just class balance and such. The issue is it has lost its meaning and we need to get back to that with positive, fun and overall enjoyable reinforcement. I know I haven't covered everything but this is where we start, please lets show them that we care and that we know they can do this. ~ Also please spread this around as the more eyes and ears it reaches, the more discussions we have the more attention we get means the more likely our changes will be considered.

~ Happy hunting All

@Knighthonor.4061
@TheGrimm.5624
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065
@Raymond Lukes.6305

Comments

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    +1> @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    So let me say first off Im going to try and keep this at a moderate length, originally I thought about doing a video discussing it and If everyone would like ill gladly go and do it. This way I can showcase the issues at hand, where they are and how the features function now. Although I don't feel its needed because almost everyone here probably is familar with and plays WvW; Not this is where we will get a bit spicy. The changes I will put forward will not be for everyone, but for those of us who dedicate ourselves to WvW its designed to give us more to do and for us to have more nuance and spice of life in our preferred game mode. (I know some people will get whiny with me, and Im going to say this now. I. DO. NOT.CARE. If you don't play WvW then it won't effect you. If you do then this will be a boon, with that lets get into it.)

    • One of the main issues we have now is with the current map builds, they are all too small to justify the mount we have and with it being the case the mount itself feels like more of a hindrance than a boon. What I propose is that we extend the maps and make them larger more spread out with more objectives through out the entirety of the map, Edge of the mists is a good example of large scale.

    • Edge of the mists should be removed as hardly anyone goes onto that map; Move it over into a changing poll for eternal battleground so that it will be used and more importantly seen by the player base. The map is wonderful and encompasses what WvW should be in a very early sense, It's dynamic and has tons of fun nuance and objectives to claim and fight over with a lot of tactical need within it.

      • The trait system needs to be completely reworked, as it stands now all it stands for is a band-aid fix for a sense of progression and we all know that A-net can and has done better on this department. Progression is key to retention, I would much prefer if the mastery and trait tree offer more unique benefits than simply "You can take less damage from guard" or "You can auto-loot" all features that should be baseline. These benefits could range from "Inspiring presence" which buffs allies and npcs around you just for being there, Or "Champions challenge" where you gain the special action key and make a ring around you and an enemy. This ring can't be crossed by other players and only you two can hurt one another for a set amount of time; Think of it as a challenge for One V one but imagine doing this when you know full well all you can do is stall for time. You can pull an enemy into this ring, and I promise others will stop and try to kill you; You might die but you could give you allies enough time to get in and protect to objective.(These are rough ideas)

                                                                                                                                #  Rewards and Objectives
        

    When it comes to rewards within WvW we have a very unique issue, because we really don't have much going for WvW as a mode. Legendary armor and a legendary back-piece is a start and I feel this also carries over to PvP as well. We have those two but the rest of our rewards are PvE reward tracks (Outside of the triumphant armor/weps and the gift of battle line.) which really don't articulate or reflect the mode that well. There are several things we could be granted that might allow us to feel more distinct and maybe, just maybe entice others to try and actually stick with the mode. Not everyone is like me who is in it for a good fight and I understand that, its all about what they can achieve and what kind of goodies they can get. Below I will detail some reward Ideas that will probably and should be looked at by A-net.

    1. A Generation of Legendary weapons: This goes without saying WvW should have some legendary weapons, considering we are in the mists and the god realms as well every other realm we have ever been connected too is tethered here as well? We could get the scepter of orr, perhaps even magdhar the sister sword to sohothin or hell maybe the sword of jora? All of these weapons can be brought into the game, and explained that those who delve into the mists long enough find relics long since thought lost. (It would be a good way to get people to have long term goals.)
    2. More armor skins: This one im surprised never gets brought up, why does WvW only have one set of unique looking armor? Why can't we get a few more that are tied to the ever evolving conflict in the mists?
    3. More Titles: More never hurts, since mini-pets mean nothing in this game (Unlike its predecessor) titles are really all the prestige we have.
    4. WvW Infusions: Now not stat increases but like aura's such as the ones that can drop within PvE; Perhaps one thats a "Glint Infusion" or a "Svanir" infusion ones unique to the game that stand out and can be distinctly told apart from their PvE counter parts.
    5. Mount skins for the warclaw: There should be some Warclaw skins that ARE earn-able in the mode; Though long, long,long,long achievements that take a long while to get to the end of I know this might hit their money earning end but it wouldn't hurt. (Though it might start a dumpster fire in PvE so perhaps this is not the best idea.)

    Objectives is another problem as well map construction, both feel incredibly dated on the alpine and Eternal battleground maps. These objectives for one feel like a pain in the butt to defend and offer little to the defenders; But also are just more points to be gotten and then forgotten by the attackers. So lets take this and flip it on its head; Lets start with how the map looks and we will use Eternal battleground since everyone loves it so much. Ill paint you a picture while also giving a bit of lore, so that way it has some sense of story at least for you to meddle with in your mind.

    "With the event of kralkatorick breaking his way into the mists and rampaging through the various realms adjacent and attached to it, the dragon had upset the natural flow and balance of the eternal mist war. His twisted and tormented visage extending its shadowy reach from the very depths of its center; Gnawing at the foundations that had once kept it as a pure reflection and turning it into a twisted aberration. He shattered several pieces of the god realms within this singular moment when aurene and the commander gave chase, and in the turmoil the Eternal battlegrounds has become a focal point of the fallout. The northern areas of the this place of war have become frozen, with rigid mountains and vast tundra's as spires of the underworld have been constructed by those who had come to "land" here. Though the armies of the underworld dwell here most have succumb to the maddening whispers of the Dragonspawn (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragonspawn) This ice-brood minion had been killed by Eir during the Events of Edge of destiny, and has now come to take residence in the vast mountain range. Forming a cult which fights to spread its dominion over the mists and conquer it in the name of Jormag; Despite its lack of connection to the dragon and the current time. Players will of the "Ice-born" faction will be tasked with subjugating the local population of creatures, and breaking the remnants of the underworld to the wills of their master as well finding and taming Svanir the ferocious and horrific nornbear. Within the south Eastern corner of the map a familar war-cry can be heard as charr from long ago muster their strength, with the old shaman caste leading the "army" who seek dominion over their new "home". Hierophant Burntsoul( https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hierophant_Burntsoul) has come to call upon any and all who would fight for his twisted ambitions of grandeur. He wishes to burn the world asunder and break the foundations of the world as we know it, so he may return to the realm that once banished him little does he know this is impossible. Players of this faction will be asked to awaken the titans, and subjugate the various remnants of the shadow army that linger here and try to set up a suitable base. One such being Shakahm the summoner(https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shakahm_the_Summoner) has stood in stark opposition of the hierophant's designs, he will be made to serve and his army and power will serve to be a starting ember to the charr's hunger to burn out the enemies laid before him. The final faction at war here would be the army of Glint, headed by the prophet glint herself.(https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glint) Her armies goal is to stop the ice-born cult and the seekers of the flame, and prevent the mists from being thrown into more turmoil as it recovers from Kralkatoricks attacks. Players will be asked to recruit heroes from long ago such as Jalis Ironhammer, Jora, Eir, Snaff, Asgeir Dragonrender, Turai Orsa and many others to join the battle against the coming storm. As well to help her create an army who is immune to maddening whispers and corruptive magics of both factions. In the end players will be sent to seek out the forgotten who now linger in the mists, hidden but not lost they will be the final hope of success in these dire times."

    So now that we have the map's history and "story" / "lore" out of the way its time to move on to what it will look like. In the western corner we will have a place similar but not fully like Glint's lair, it will have various trees and different fauna there along with cavern systems to traverse incase of emergency. The far north will have Jormag corruption and various mountains, caves and darkly lit objectives with fog and rolling snow-storms to deter invaders. Along with the roaming bands of Icebrood and underworld creatures that will make traversal hard for foreign powers. Within the charrs domain we will have many forms of siege, and the growing threat of the titans being ever present this place will look much like the fissure of woe but with a hint of old ascalon within its red and orange hued nature. Down the middle of the map where Stone-mist castle once was will be a Massive brand-scar that is in a way holding these realms together as branded surge from the broken remnants of the surrounding area. Stone-mist still exists and is one of the major points of capture but because of its location, players will have to help their faction build up a size-able force and amount of resources to not only take it but maintain it. With the forces of the branded being a noticeable threat to all three sides at times champions will become branded in the area and Turn on their allies; As well various players can become branded to cause infighting among their ranks unless the proper upgrades have been reached.

    Smaller Objectives:

    • Seven Camps for each faction in their respective domain
    • Fourteen Towers in total in each domain, each with varying tiers. Tier three not only expands its size but makes the walls higher, weapons stronger and makes it possible to position powerful guards and champions unique to the faction.
    • Camps of unique and neutral enemies to be claimed and subjugated acrossed the map. (Five in each region.) These could include Centaur, Ogre's, Harpies, Jotuun, Shadow army remnants, Underworld forces, Nightmares and many more. They not only function like they do now but they roam and muster their forces to launch soft attacks at objectives and fortify the towers. Once claimed they will remain claimed for the faction for around an hour, after the hour timer it can be claimed again by another faction and should this happen the enemies fortifications will despawn(Npcs) but any buildings and additions they managed to make will stay.
    • Various Quests issued to go and collect resources, to provide unique siege and powerful weapons to be used by the players of the respective factions. (Themed around each)

    Big Objectives/Long term goals:

    • Two large and challenging bosses that roam specific portions of the domain, killing these bosses bestow their power to the faction of the region. Transforming players into monsters with unique skills and traits designed around specific play-styles. For example, Svanir is one and once a player kills him they are given the power of the norn-bear and become icebrood minions with unique benefits depending on which one they choose (Between three) this then offers A "Zerg rush" like theme where for a set time you will pour from the mountains to try and overwhelm opponents structures and claim them before you loose the power or are killed. Each factions champions have unique benefits, Svanir's is that his buff also makes players immune to condition damage meaning artillery and siege is the way to go to deal with them. ( The other Snowy region boss is a Jotuun high king, The summoner and a titan for the charr and for glint it is the Forgotten and some branded champion she wishes to bend to her sides wishes.) Should the enemy kill your champion it will remain dead for 24 hours and will be unable to be captured until they re-spawn, this enforces the idea of fighting over them and trying to build up to do one of two things. Either A: Capture yours to gain their power or B: Kill your enemies so they can't capture it for a full day.
    • Two keeps, each with unique traits and landscapes built for varying levels of play.
    • Four Fortress's for each faction with three doors each, these surround the inner sanctum which are paramount in defending ones lore.
    • Once the four fortress's fall the lord will be vulnerable to attack, but be warned he is extremely strong and capable of dealing with players with interactive game-play. If he has defenders he will be even harder to deal with. Should the lord fall that faction will be pushed back to the smaller borderlands for two hours and unable to enter the eternal battlegrounds until their lord can recover; They can however use the resources left over to build up their home borderlands and even bring their champions there to help in their cause. The home borderlands for each will be changed a bit cosmetically to match the theme of Eternal battlegrounds.

    In conclusion the idea is the reinforce the reasons to play, This would mean we need to work on the maps and the layout of them. Class balance while being a big issue is no where near as big at this point when compared to burn out and lack of replay-ability. The maps eventually grow stale, the lack of objectives become a nuisance and many players ignore key objectives because they want a fight. The Idea here is to make building and maintaining objectives good for the small scale groups, while the big zergs roam and try to fight for the objectives this also gives PvE players a chance to really get their feet wet with PvE style objectives that directly benefit the Battleground, for taking these gives buffs for the zergs and defenders.

                                                                                                                                                 # Bonus/Extra Goodies
    
    • Caverns and underground objectives could be fun, could add depth as well as new ways to play and fight.
    • Large areas filled with trees that can be set up for ambushes could be excellent for large fights, and could help make them last longer
    • Making it so each factions PvE side can directly benefit the forces fighting in the mists by doing events in Tyria, which cause various benefits and resources to trickle in. So even if you don't like WvW you're still able to participate without having to go out. (The same could be said about strictly PvP players.) Stop barring us from each other and let us be more interactive so that there is no more "I don't care about PvE" because those players do directly help you in maybe not a large way but in a nice enough way to make it worth-while. This would encourage the player-base to care for one another, maybe offer benefits for PvE based on how their faction is doing in both the other game modes? (Extra chance for better loot, and better rewards?)
    • Split the servers equally among the factions, and make it so once your account is linked to a faction you will not be able to leave said faction. This would make it so the disparity would dissipate and the server transfers would not effect that. Seperate the big servers with the most population equally among the three factions, or make it that once a faction becomes to large other people can't join that faction until the others catch up. You could make this a pledge when you enter WvW where you as the player choose the faction you wish to support, or could be done some other way.

    The disparity no matter what changes you make will make it impossible to balance, or fix WvW and it needs to be addressed and has needed to be addressed.

    Thank you for reading and Id love to get constructive feedback on this post, your ideas and thoughts. Id also like the make this as much of a detailed and articulate thread about what we the player-base would like to see. The more we give A-net the more likely they will be to implement and make changes accordingly, if we show we care about this game mode and that we want it to be good then things could get better. You have to understand Im pretty sure they are terrified to add ANYTHING new because of what happened when edge of the mists and the desert borderlands were added. People complained so hard, and people still to this day give them flack but those are two of the best maps they've added or made for WvW and so with the fear of doing something new, because of the outrage culture over things we should be HAPPY about im sure thats a large part of why we don't see changes often. We have to let them know we want change, balance is a big issue and I do agree but its not the largest on their plate of problems. Replay-ability, reasons to play, reasons to keep going and keep fighting are all big issues. Hell we don't even hold objectives anymore, we just go for the big zerg V zerg so when it comes down to it the mode has more issues than just class balance and such. The issue is it has lost its meaning and we need to get back to that with positive, fun and overall enjoyable reinforcement. I know I haven't covered everything but this is where we start, please lets show them that we care and that we know they can do this. ~ Also please spread this around as the more eyes and ears it reaches, the more discussions we have the more attention we get means the more likely our changes will be considered.

    ~ Happy hunting All

    @Knighthonor.4061
    @TheGrimm.5624
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065
    @Raymond Lukes.6305

    +1

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like a lot of this. But I don't quite understand your trait revamp suggestion. Care to elaborate?

  • So, add more pve to a pvp game mode? No thanks. And there used to be a link between the world and wvw (whihc 99% of pure pve players never knew about) but that died on mega servers.

    Some of the rest has merit, but there isn't the resources applied to wvw to make it happen. Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble.

    If you have many millions in the bank then I suppose you could take your ideas directly to the company with your cheque book and offer to pay them to add these features- but even then it probably wouldn't happen.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    It has been 1 year 8 months now since the first announcement on World Restructing and Alliance Creation.

    To date, nothing is happenning, not even talks on updates for almost a year now.

    It's EITHER ANet is shelving Alliances and taking their time to work on it when they could or never, OR they are really working on something big perhaps including map changes and new features.

    Only time will tell if you have the patience to wait and wait and wait.

    Your proposed ideas seem interesting but seriously nothing is going to happen. For GW3 maybe.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    I like a lot of this. But I don't quite understand your trait revamp suggestion. Care to elaborate?

    Simply put taking less damage from guards or doing more damage is kinda lame, a filler trait that should be baseline. Rather Id like to have potential to use maybe tunnels or some other form of traversal from the map. Maybe the ability to speak diplomatically with some of the enemies we are supposed to subjugate rather than fighting them, if you trait for it. Make specific traits make others unavailable so you'd have each character tailor made for specific gameplay styles, solo roamers would be more like sappers and Zerglings would want to go into more abilities to mitigate the maps effects on them. Stuff like that

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    So, add more pve to a pvp game mode? No thanks. And there used to be a link between the world and wvw (whihc 99% of pure pve players never knew about) but that died on mega servers.

    Some of the rest has merit, but there isn't the resources applied to wvw to make it happen. Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble.

    If you have many millions in the bank then I suppose you could take your ideas directly to the company with your cheque book and offer to pay them to add these features- but even then it probably wouldn't happen.

    Everything in WvW from taking keeps to taking objectives is PvE its just about making it more interactive, if you dislike that then SPvP is there for you but the mode itself should have a level of interaction. IF I had that kind of money Id buy arena-net full on, I wouldn't do anything but that and if you think these changes are unreasonable that is fine but you have offered no constructive argument for or against. "Resources" You mean the ones they are spending on shirts, shoes and other products other than the game correct? Got it.

    @Mil.3562 said:
    It has been 1 year 8 months now since the first announcement on World Restructing and Alliance Creation.

    To date, nothing is happenning, not even talks on updates for almost a year now.

    It's EITHER ANet is shelving Alliances and taking their time to work on it when they could or never, OR they are really working on something big perhaps including map changes and new features.

    Only time will tell if you have the patience to wait and wait and wait.

    Your proposed ideas seem interesting but seriously nothing is going to happen. For GW3 maybe.

    There will never be a GW3 at least not for the next ten or so years. This game is being geared up for the long haul, so if nothing happens then nothing ever will happen. Again Criticism things you'd like to say not doubts is what is needed. We have to let them know we are still here and honestly be less hostile to them to entice interaction because the knee jerk reactions and outrage culture we pushed made this situation. Remember when Edge of the mists or Desert borderlands were introduced? Everyone got so mad and hated it so they have tried to continue, I think its more fear on their part of "if we do anything they will get mad" but if they do nothing the game mode would die. Id rather change than stagnation~

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    You're trying to expand maps at a time when the population is obviously doing down?
    Having 4 maps is even too much for most times of the day.

    Eotm exist for a place to play when there's queues, obviously that hasn't been happening very often especially since it's rewards got nerfed, but whenever alliances come in it may be needed again at that time, although with less rewards people would probably rather wait afk in a pve zone than go there, so that also would need to be addressed.

    I would 100% vote for ebg over eotm every single time, you don't replace your most popular map, period

    More objectives would be fine, they've been suggested many times over, and there's room to add more especially on alpines, just don't make them excessive or annoying like the desert bl. Bloodlust ruins I believe were added to bring back the orb effect but to also give some small groups stuff to do, but really, how much do people really care to do it often? Champions has been discussed even recently in other threads.

    Don't care about mastery, any revamp will probably cost less points than what I have so it's whatever.

    Don't care about reward revamps or additions, I'm happy it now provides the basic needs for gear to play without needing to leave the mode, so again add whatever, I personally didn't play wvw for material rewards.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    @Thornwolf.9721

    Not trying to be a young cat here but Do you understand why desert BL was disliked?

    Or why EoTM was disliked?

    Your suggestions pulls us closer to the ideas that irritate people about both of those maps.

    @Baldrick.8967 wasn't specific enough for you, but his point of adding in more PvE is clearly a concern that many of us have.

    Of course there are players that only want a flat level map without walls that is 1/2 the size of current maps

    Honestly though, they are the exceptions.

    The mode is designed to be about worlds versus Worlds versus worlds.

    The ‘PvE‘ elements that you mention that exist currently are designed to funnel people towards each other to create conflicts.

    Spreading those elements out, and adding a lot more only further Pushes people away from each other.

    No its because You don't understand what WvW is, It is a fundamental Rehash and new take on "RvR" realm vs realm. Its designed for you to kick people out of the map by taking and conquering the map. The objectives and the journey are the point, Its why games like Warhammer online are missed because no game right now on the market offers a system like that out side of Guild wars 2 and ESO. Im young and I think Desert is the best of the three. You people howl for change but the moment we propose yet seem so resistant to it.

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    You're trying to expand maps at a time when the population is obviously doing down?
    Having 4 maps is even too much for most times of the day.

    Eotm exist for a place to play when there's queues, obviously that hasn't been happening very often especially since it's rewards got nerfed, but whenever alliances come in it may be needed again at that time, although with less rewards people would probably rather wait afk in a pve zone than go there, so that also would need to be addressed.

    I would 100% vote for ebg over eotm every single time, you don't replace your most popular map, period

    More objectives would be fine, they've been suggested many times over, and there's room to add more especially on alpines, just don't make them excessive or annoying like the desert bl. Bloodlust runes I believe were added to bring back the orb effect but to also give some small groups stuff to do, but really, how much do people really care to do it often? Champions has been discussed even recently in other threads.

    Don't care about mastery, any revamp will probably cost less points than what I have so it's whatever.

    Don't care about reward revamps or additions, I'm happy it now provides the basic needs for gear to play without needing to leave the mode, so again add whatever, I personally didn't play wvw for material rewards.

    I don't play it for the rewards either but the main complaint people have is "There is not enough reward", which I mean having something to show your prestige in the mode is good especially if you devote yourself to that game mode. But its not make or break; Im not saying replace Eternal battle ground that wasn't the point but it does need to be remastered and given current content level of uplift and needs to be made more dynamic because of the borderlands its probably the most borring thematically and has little objective worth outside of stone-mist. The idea isn't to replace it but make it more of a hot-spot than it even is now, with large areas and more room to roam to compensate for mounts and offer monster play and other ways to siege outside of the basic trebs, cannons and the like we have now.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721

    Got it. I am one of ‘you people’ and my opinion means kitten despite trying to give constructive input.

    🌈🌈🌈🌈😺😺😺😺

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    WvW "veterans" live in Catch-22 dilema:

    • WwW veterans: "the game mode is dying, the population is low".
    • Someone propose changes.
    • WvW veterans: "its pve! we dont want noobs here!, we dont want pve here!".

    they really believe that a blank, squared map is the solution?

    A catch-22 is a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules or limitations.[1][2] The term was coined by Joseph Heller, who used it in his 1961 novel Catch-22.

    An example is:

    In needing experience to get a job..."How can I get any experience until I get a job that gives me experience?" – Brantley Foster in The Secret of My Success.
    Catch-22s often result from rules, regulations, or procedures that an individual is subject to, but has no control over, because to fight the rule is to accept it. Another example is a situation in which someone is in need of something that can only be had by not being in need of it (e.g, a bank will never issue someone a loan if they need the money). One connotation of the term is that the creators of the "catch-22" situation have created arbitrary rules in order to justify and conceal their own abuse of power.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    @Thornwolf.9721

    Got it. I am one of ‘you people’ and my opinion means kitten despite trying to give constructive input.

    🌈🌈🌈🌈😺😺😺😺

    I mean Im just saying like constructive? No its "Well I don't like this, So its not good" when clearly the current formula isn't working and we are hemorrhaging players and have been for a while now. Im not saying to not vocalize what you think should be done, but don't shut down others ideas without putting any forward yourself? But there must be some form of communication barrier and the whole "one of you people reeeee" Thing is not a good look mate.

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    WvW "veterans" live in Catch-22 dilema:

    • WwW veterans: "the game mode is dying, the population is low".
    • Someone propose changes.
    • WvW veterans: "its pve! we dont want noobs here!, we dont want pve here!".

    they really believe that a blank, squared map is the solution?

    A catch-22 is a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules or limitations.[1][2] The term was coined by Joseph Heller, who used it in his 1961 novel Catch-22.

    An example is:

    In needing experience to get a job..."How can I get any experience until I get a job that gives me experience?" – Brantley Foster in The Secret of My Success.
    Catch-22s often result from rules, regulations, or procedures that an individual is subject to, but has no control over, because to fight the rule is to accept it. Another example is a situation in which someone is in need of something that can only be had by not being in need of it (e.g, a bank will never issue someone a loan if they need the money). One connotation of the term is that the creators of the "catch-22" situation have created arbitrary rules in order to justify and conceal their own abuse of power.

    I laughed so hard at your post, that I had water come out of my nose.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    1. More legy weps, sounds awesome. Will they require GoE, as well? Will there be unique skins? Cause i can already hear the pvers shouting.
    2. Infusion that will be a droppable thing? Will it drop from lords (towers keeps smc)? People will heavily ktrain and avoid fights. Will it drop drom players? People will permaspawncamp others. Yay.
    3. More armorskins, always good. Fashion wars, after all.
    4. Skins for the warclaw, obtainable through achiev. Correct me if i am wrong, here, but even pve doesnt have unlockable mount skins via achievs.

    You say you care about wvw, but I didnt see anything about population balance or lag issues when there are even 2 zone blobs fighting, to name 2 things that actually matter.
    And, no. Pvers already have a huge selection of maps to "get their feet wet" or whatever, wvw uses pve armor and sigil/runesystem, but apart from killing a lord or camp vet npcs, the mode is first and foremost a pvp battlezone. Putting excessive pve elements will bring in pvers and drive out people who want to fight. We all saw how it worked in eotm, when it had full pve and wvw rewards.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:
    And some how, ya'll think posting stuff like this is ever, literally EVER, going to happen?

    Sometimes hope is all that is left...

    But yes it is a waste of our time and Anets time. Maybe they are watching, maybe they arent, but ideas like this just isnt practical in any way. We already know Anet want simple ideas, things that they actually could do. Unlike Anet, we got plenty of time to waste. Otherwise we wouldnt be here.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:
    And some how, ya'll think posting stuff like this is ever, literally EVER, going to happen?

    Sometimes hope is all that is left...

    But yes it is a waste of our time and Anets time. Maybe they are watching, maybe they arent, but ideas like this just isnt practical in any way. We already know Anet want simple ideas, things that they actually could do. But unlike Anet, we got plenty of time to waste. Otherwise we wouldnt be here.

    Close WvW down and focus on what makes them money is the only thing that makes sense by that logic, I mean Again its conceptual phases and this is all indeed possible. But as you can clearly see the pushback from the player base gets so large, because they don't want "Pve" in wvw when it is ALREADY more PvE than PvP and has been since its inception just as RvR had pve objectives to take in Dark age of camelot and Warhammer online, you can't have it be two blobs charging each other in an open field. At that point it becomes Fortnite so if thats the game people want then perhaps its time they move on~

    @C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:
    Ya'll don't seem to understand.

    You could outline a business model for wvw/spvp that would guarantee them a revenue boost of godly proportions...

    Ain't no update happening any time soon. Game mode is a horse with 3 broken legs waiting on someone with a shotgun.

    -edit-

    Here's a timeline for ya'll.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hello!
    Sorry for the late update. We're not having a monthly tournament this Saturday.
    While a full fix to tournaments are still some ways off.

    We know for a fact that nothing is hitting WvW until swiss is done and released. They haven't even fixed normal tourney's, and its been 3 months.

    Out of their 300+? employees, they have 2-3 people working on ALL OF WVW AND SPVP...

    Bugs that have been in WvW since the game was released are still there, even though having been reported, im sure, 100's of times.

    And some how, ya'll think posting stuff like this is ever, literally EVER, going to happen?

    K..

    Never hurts to offer Ideas, I mean clearly the only people upset at a concept are people growing upset because someone dared to do so. The idea behind this was to allow ALL OF US wvw players to offer our ideas up. So when the mode finally falls flat, and they shut it down (Which may be closer than we think) we can point and laugh saying we gave you the tools and you denied them. (If that really is the only silver lining for you, I give my condolences.) Sarcasm aside, no one required you posting on the topic I asked for a constructive conversation not someone telling all of us what we already know.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    1. More legy weps, sounds awesome. Will they require GoE, as well? Will there be unique skins? Cause i can already hear the pvers shouting.
    2. Infusion that will be a droppable thing? Will it drop from lords (towers keeps smc)? People will heavily ktrain and avoid fights. Will it drop drom players? People will permaspawncamp others. Yay.
    3. More armorskins, always good. Fashion wars, after all.
    4. Skins for the warclaw, obtainable through achiev. Correct me if i am wrong, here, but even pve doesnt have unlockable mount skins via achievs.

    You say you care about wvw, but I didnt see anything about population balance or lag issues when there are even 2 zone blobs fighting, to name 2 things that actually matter.
    And, no. Pvers already have a huge selection of maps to "get their feet wet" or whatever, wvw uses pve armor and sigil/runesystem, but apart from killing a lord or camp vet npcs, the mode is first and foremost a pvp battlezone. Putting excessive pve elements will bring in pvers and drive out people who want to fight. We all saw how it worked in eotm, when it had full pve and wvw rewards.

    1. Pvers can get over the unique appearances, they have two generations of unique legendary weapons. Every game mode should have some form of them so that no one feels left out, most WvW players/PvP players don't want to do open world and vice versa. I completely agree that you should be able to enjoy your preferred game mode and still be able to get sick looking gear.
    2. Infusions already drop off of chests, bosses and so on? Or did you miss that? I mean the grothmar daily chest has a chance to drop an infusion, so its not like its not something that currently happens. (Making a few drop off players depending on rank could be neat...)
    3. Well I mean the warclaw in of itself is an enigma of a mount, it hardly has any skins when compared to the others... then again the roller beetle and the skyscale both respectfully sit there as well... You may be right. It was merely an Idea because have no progression outside of cosmetics in the reality of end-game.

    You claim I don't care yet I said as much in bold, and Italic mind you that the population imbalance needed to be addressed. Clearly you only read or skimmed the post and gleamed enough to come at me with enough snark, and sass to warrant my sarcastic care of your outline. Overall good job on that end, A shame you couldn't be bothered with the rest of the idea because it was more about the engaging aspects of the map and features of said map (As well the environment in which we fight.) The population imbalance won't be fixed until they stop server transfers and halt bandwagon-fiesta we have now, which I don't have a clear answer for. (I also doubt they would give up the free gem money from said transfers.)

    Please try again if you wish, and next time put some effort behind it rather than trying to be witty. I am always hungering for a conversation, not a banter pitch between two people who clearly may never actually come to understand one another.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Close WvW down and focus on what makes them money is the only thing that makes sense by that logic, I mean Again its conceptual phases and this is all indeed possible.

    No, because its much easier for Anet to keep it open. Because they dont have to do anything for that. Closing it would actually require more work.

    Its doesnt really matter what stage an idea is in when everything is technically possible but its not practically possible.

    At the end of the day, most of us just want to play WvW as it is with bugfixes, performance increases and improved existing mechanics. Not table flips. If Anet does nothing... So be it.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Close WvW down and focus on what makes them money is the only thing that makes sense by that logic, I mean Again its conceptual phases and this is all indeed possible.

    No, because its much easier for Anet to keep it open. Because they dont have to do anything for that. Closing it would actually require more work.

    Its doesnt really matter what stage an idea is in when everything is technically possible but its not practically possible.

    At the end of the day, most of us just want to play WvW as it is with bugfixes, performance increases and improved existing mechanics. Not table flips. If Anet does nothing... So be it.

    If they do nothing the mode will wither and die, there will be no fights. There will be no point? So then when the lands are barren, when the objectives empty and no one is there for your fights will you be happy? Will that satisfy that portion of the community, because should they decide to do nothing I can see the end closing in and the moment people figure that out or begin to believe that in mass ... well we are already there. We have lost so many people, guilds and large amounts of players for that mode that if something doesn't get done soon there will be little going on other than one major zerg rampaging and taking objectives in a relatively open map.

    And that is a possibility that can happen within a years time, potentially less depending on the outcome. Perhaps you're right and their silence and inability and unwillingness to fix or change anything is a sign to us that "Yes we don't care". Still it never hurts to throw ideas out there for eager eyes, it might inspire others or hell even inspire other games. You never know who might be watching and simply biding their time.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:
    And some how, ya'll think posting stuff like this is ever, literally EVER, going to happen?

    Sometimes hope is all that is left...

    But yes it is a waste of our time and Anets time. Maybe they are watching, maybe they arent, but ideas like this just isnt practical in any way. We already know Anet want simple ideas, things that they actually could do. But unlike Anet, we got plenty of time to waste. Otherwise we wouldnt be here.

    Close WvW down and focus on what makes them money is the only thing that makes sense by that logic, I mean Again its conceptual phases and this is all indeed possible. But as you can clearly see the pushback from the player base gets so large, because they don't want "Pve" in wvw when it is ALREADY more PvE than PvP and has been since its inception just as RvR had pve objectives to take in Dark age of camelot and Warhammer online, you can't have it be two blobs charging each other in an open field. At that point it becomes Fortnite so if thats the game people want then perhaps its time they move on~

    @C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:
    Ya'll don't seem to understand.

    You could outline a business model for wvw/spvp that would guarantee them a revenue boost of godly proportions...

    Ain't no update happening any time soon. Game mode is a horse with 3 broken legs waiting on someone with a shotgun.

    -edit-

    Here's a timeline for ya'll.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hello!
    Sorry for the late update. We're not having a monthly tournament this Saturday.
    While a full fix to tournaments are still some ways off.

    We know for a fact that nothing is hitting WvW until swiss is done and released. They haven't even fixed normal tourney's, and its been 3 months.

    Out of their 300+? employees, they have 2-3 people working on ALL OF WVW AND SPVP...

    Bugs that have been in WvW since the game was released are still there, even though having been reported, im sure, 100's of times.

    And some how, ya'll think posting stuff like this is ever, literally EVER, going to happen?

    K..

    Never hurts to offer Ideas, I mean clearly the only people upset at a concept are people growing upset because someone dared to do so. The idea behind this was to allow ALL OF US wvw players to offer our ideas up. So when the mode finally falls flat, and they shut it down (Which may be closer than we think) we can point and laugh saying we gave you the tools and you denied them. (If that really is the only silver lining for you, I give my condolences.) Sarcasm aside, no one required you posting on the topic I asked for a constructive conversation not someone telling all of us what we already know.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    1. More legy weps, sounds awesome. Will they require GoE, as well? Will there be unique skins? Cause i can already hear the pvers shouting.
    2. Infusion that will be a droppable thing? Will it drop from lords (towers keeps smc)? People will heavily ktrain and avoid fights. Will it drop drom players? People will permaspawncamp others. Yay.
    3. More armorskins, always good. Fashion wars, after all.
    4. Skins for the warclaw, obtainable through achiev. Correct me if i am wrong, here, but even pve doesnt have unlockable mount skins via achievs.

    You say you care about wvw, but I didnt see anything about population balance or lag issues when there are even 2 zone blobs fighting, to name 2 things that actually matter.
    And, no. Pvers already have a huge selection of maps to "get their feet wet" or whatever, wvw uses pve armor and sigil/runesystem, but apart from killing a lord or camp vet npcs, the mode is first and foremost a pvp battlezone. Putting excessive pve elements will bring in pvers and drive out people who want to fight. We all saw how it worked in eotm, when it had full pve and wvw rewards.

    1. Pvers can get over the unique appearances, they have two generations of unique legendary weapons. Every game mode should have some form of them so that no one feels left out, most WvW players/PvP players don't want to do open world and vice versa. I completely agree that you should be able to enjoy your preferred game mode and still be able to get sick looking gear.
    2. Infusions already drop off of chests, bosses and so on? Or did you miss that? I mean the grothmar daily chest has a chance to drop an infusion, so its not like its not something that currently happens. (Making a few drop off players depending on rank could be neat...)
    3. Well I mean the warclaw in of itself is an enigma of a mount, it hardly has any skins when compared to the others... then again the roller beetle and the skyscale both respectfully sit there as well... You may be right. It was merely an Idea because have no progression outside of cosmetics in the reality of end-game.

    You claim I don't care yet I said as much in bold, and Italic mind you that the population imbalance needed to be addressed. Clearly you only read or skimmed the post and gleamed enough to come at me with enough snark, and sass to warrant my sarcastic care of your outline. Overall good job on that end, A shame you couldn't be bothered with the rest of the idea because it was more about the engaging aspects of the map and features of said map (As well the environment in which we fight.) The population imbalance won't be fixed until they stop server transfers and halt bandwagon-fiesta we have now, which I don't have a clear answer for. (I also doubt they would give up the free gem money from said transfers.)

    Please try again if you wish, and next time put some effort behind it rather than trying to be witty. I am always hungering for a conversation, not a banter pitch between two people who clearly may never actually come to understand one another.

    PvErs whine, shout, complain as all people do when they feel theyre being treated unfairly. Removing GoE (or the equivalent for HoT or PoF legendaries) from wvw legendaries means just that. Trust me, not even pvers like the map completion requirement. Keeping GoE for wvw legendaries wont matter cause we already HAVE Gen1 and 2 legendaries. Is it for the skins? Then just make... Skins. Or timegate them--- oh we already have timegates, theyre called skirmish tickets.

    I really think I shouldnt have to explain the difference of farming a PvE boss to playing WvW to a WvWer. I think.

    Making 5 tiers into 3, locking em ("full status") isnt something new or original. Plus, as wvw will become essentially a pve mode, how will you deal with the huge influx of pvers (you dont remember what happened when pips were introduced, with 80-100 queues over all bl for 2 weeks), the queues, the lag? "Since we already cant solve the population issue and disparities will be there no matter what, why not make wvw into a pve mode, who cares!"

    If you cant take criticism, post stuff on your personal blog. Good day!

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some good changes i can agree with, some i cant agree at all with.

    The biggest point is the amount of pve you want to bring into wvw. Thats just a big no thanks from me. I already hate the lords in the desert borderland.
    Lords are supposed to be dmg sponges to stall time to let defenders get there in time, however, the lord should NEVER turn a large scaled fight around, like those on desert can. Mass knockback? Massive aoe fear? A ring that can trap any given amount of players and isnt passable even when having stab?
    Those are waaay too big of advantages for defenders in zerg vs zerg fights.

    Also big strong pve encounter will make it impossible for small scale sneaky attackers to do anything on a map, further increasing the need to run around in a zerg. (which has already become more of a problem since mounts were introduced)

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    I don't play it for the rewards either but the main complaint people have is "There is not enough reward", which I mean having something to show your prestige in the mode is good especially if you devote yourself to that game mode. But its not make or break;

    If you think that's the main complaint people have about wvw, then we really can't help you.

    And for your other answers to other people's posts, I would refer you to my earlier answer to yours. And 'resources' in the context I used was clearly defined, but just in case you didn't get it, this is what we call time, money, effort, focus directed towards a specific outcome within a company. The only one of those you could possibly influence with any degree of success is the money one, unless you happen to be a major shareholder in the parent company..

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:
    And some how, ya'll think posting stuff like this is ever, literally EVER, going to happen?

    Sometimes hope is all that is left...

    But yes it is a waste of our time and Anets time. Maybe they are watching, maybe they arent, but ideas like this just isnt practical in any way. We already know Anet want simple ideas, things that they actually could do. But unlike Anet, we got plenty of time to waste. Otherwise we wouldnt be here.

    Close WvW down and focus on what makes them money is the only thing that makes sense by that logic, I mean Again its conceptual phases and this is all indeed possible. But as you can clearly see the pushback from the player base gets so large, because they don't want "Pve" in wvw when it is ALREADY more PvE than PvP and has been since its inception just as RvR had pve objectives to take in Dark age of camelot and Warhammer online, you can't have it be two blobs charging each other in an open field. At that point it becomes Fortnite so if thats the game people want then perhaps its time they move on~

    @C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:
    Ya'll don't seem to understand.

    You could outline a business model for wvw/spvp that would guarantee them a revenue boost of godly proportions...

    Ain't no update happening any time soon. Game mode is a horse with 3 broken legs waiting on someone with a shotgun.

    -edit-

    Here's a timeline for ya'll.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hello!
    Sorry for the late update. We're not having a monthly tournament this Saturday.
    While a full fix to tournaments are still some ways off.

    We know for a fact that nothing is hitting WvW until swiss is done and released. They haven't even fixed normal tourney's, and its been 3 months.

    Out of their 300+? employees, they have 2-3 people working on ALL OF WVW AND SPVP...

    Bugs that have been in WvW since the game was released are still there, even though having been reported, im sure, 100's of times.

    And some how, ya'll think posting stuff like this is ever, literally EVER, going to happen?

    K..

    Never hurts to offer Ideas, I mean clearly the only people upset at a concept are people growing upset because someone dared to do so. The idea behind this was to allow ALL OF US wvw players to offer our ideas up. So when the mode finally falls flat, and they shut it down (Which may be closer than we think) we can point and laugh saying we gave you the tools and you denied them. (If that really is the only silver lining for you, I give my condolences.) Sarcasm aside, no one required you posting on the topic I asked for a constructive conversation not someone telling all of us what we already know.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    1. More legy weps, sounds awesome. Will they require GoE, as well? Will there be unique skins? Cause i can already hear the pvers shouting.
    2. Infusion that will be a droppable thing? Will it drop from lords (towers keeps smc)? People will heavily ktrain and avoid fights. Will it drop drom players? People will permaspawncamp others. Yay.
    3. More armorskins, always good. Fashion wars, after all.
    4. Skins for the warclaw, obtainable through achiev. Correct me if i am wrong, here, but even pve doesnt have unlockable mount skins via achievs.

    You say you care about wvw, but I didnt see anything about population balance or lag issues when there are even 2 zone blobs fighting, to name 2 things that actually matter.
    And, no. Pvers already have a huge selection of maps to "get their feet wet" or whatever, wvw uses pve armor and sigil/runesystem, but apart from killing a lord or camp vet npcs, the mode is first and foremost a pvp battlezone. Putting excessive pve elements will bring in pvers and drive out people who want to fight. We all saw how it worked in eotm, when it had full pve and wvw rewards.

    1. Pvers can get over the unique appearances, they have two generations of unique legendary weapons. Every game mode should have some form of them so that no one feels left out, most WvW players/PvP players don't want to do open world and vice versa. I completely agree that you should be able to enjoy your preferred game mode and still be able to get sick looking gear.
    2. Infusions already drop off of chests, bosses and so on? Or did you miss that? I mean the grothmar daily chest has a chance to drop an infusion, so its not like its not something that currently happens. (Making a few drop off players depending on rank could be neat...)
    3. Well I mean the warclaw in of itself is an enigma of a mount, it hardly has any skins when compared to the others... then again the roller beetle and the skyscale both respectfully sit there as well... You may be right. It was merely an Idea because have no progression outside of cosmetics in the reality of end-game.

    You claim I don't care yet I said as much in bold, and Italic mind you that the population imbalance needed to be addressed. Clearly you only read or skimmed the post and gleamed enough to come at me with enough snark, and sass to warrant my sarcastic care of your outline. Overall good job on that end, A shame you couldn't be bothered with the rest of the idea because it was more about the engaging aspects of the map and features of said map (As well the environment in which we fight.) The population imbalance won't be fixed until they stop server transfers and halt bandwagon-fiesta we have now, which I don't have a clear answer for. (I also doubt they would give up the free gem money from said transfers.)

    Please try again if you wish, and next time put some effort behind it rather than trying to be witty. I am always hungering for a conversation, not a banter pitch between two people who clearly may never actually come to understand one another.

    PvErs whine, shout, complain as all people do when they feel theyre being treated unfairly. Removing GoE (or the equivalent for HoT or PoF legendaries) from wvw legendaries means just that. Trust me, not even pvers like the map completion requirement. Keeping GoE for wvw legendaries wont matter cause we already HAVE Gen1 and 2 legendaries. Is it for the skins? Then just make... Skins. Or timegate them--- oh we already have timegates, theyre called skirmish tickets.

    I really think I shouldnt have to explain the difference of farming a PvE boss to playing WvW to a WvWer. I think.

    Making 5 tiers into 3, locking em ("full status") isnt something new or original. Plus, as wvw will become essentially a pve mode, how will you deal with the huge influx of pvers (you dont remember what happened when pips were introduced, with 80-100 queues over all bl for 2 weeks), the queues, the lag? "Since we already cant solve the population issue and disparities will be there no matter what, why not make wvw into a pve mode, who cares!"

    If you cant take criticism, post stuff on your personal blog. Good day!

    Its not cirticisim its you asking for a battle-royal and this just proves to me A-net should make one of those so people can go over there, its screaming illogical whines about "I don't like X content so it does nothing for me". Yet when camelot unchained arrives and murders this game mode, with the exact items I proposed what will you do then? As I said there will eventually be no one to fight, and it will be empty camps and keeps all day every day. If you can't handle a logical argument or offer ANY sort of features to replace the ones I suggested or even ideas of your own then please see yourself out.

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    Some good changes i can agree with, some i cant agree at all with.

    The biggest point is the amount of pve you want to bring into wvw. Thats just a big no thanks from me. I already hate the lords in the desert borderland.
    Lords are supposed to be dmg sponges to stall time to let defenders get there in time, however, the lord should NEVER turn a large scaled fight around, like those on desert can. Mass knockback? Massive aoe fear? A ring that can trap any given amount of players and isnt passable even when having stab?
    Those are waaay too big of advantages for defenders in zerg vs zerg fights.

    Also big strong pve encounter will make it impossible for small scale sneaky attackers to do anything on a map, further increasing the need to run around in a zerg. (which has already become more of a problem since mounts were introduced)

    as I said maybe they should turn the game-mode into a battle royal and then you all would be happy, then the mode would require even less maintenance and changes. Clearly everyone likes it as it is so I don't see why they should do anything at all.

    @Baldrick.8967 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    I don't play it for the rewards either but the main complaint people have is "There is not enough reward", which I mean having something to show your prestige in the mode is good especially if you devote yourself to that game mode. But its not make or break;

    If you think that's the main complaint people have about wvw, then we really can't help you.

    And for your other answers to other people's posts, I would refer you to my earlier answer to yours. And 'resources' in the context I used was clearly defined, but just in case you didn't get it, this is what we call time, money, effort, focus directed towards a specific outcome within a company. The only one of those you could possibly influence with any degree of success is the money one, unless you happen to be a major shareholder in the parent company..

    They have the resources they are using them to making clothing lines, do you know how expensive that is? To make a bunch of clothes, shoes from companies who typically have nothing to do with this company? Do you know how expensive it is the license your clothing through Hot Topic? I work at spencers and We've discussed time and again how hard it is to license items, because the cost our company puts on them doing so. Hot Topic is hardly any different ~

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    So, add more pve to a pvp game mode? No thanks. And there used to be a link between the world and wvw (whihc 99% of pure pve players never knew about) but that died on mega servers.

    Some of the rest has merit, but there isn't the resources applied to wvw to make it happen. Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble.

    If you have many millions in the bank then I suppose you could take your ideas directly to the company with your cheque book and offer to pay them to add these features- but even then it probably wouldn't happen.

    Actually think that removing that boon in the other game modes was a bad move. I want to believe that the logic is still there which if that is the case, tie some boon into controlling the keeps. For each keep your side controls players associated to those servers gain a 1% increase in magic find, gold and karma and label it as WvW boon so that players know here they receive it from. Have it update on the skirmish period end and that percentage is applied till the end of the period. That boon was a great in game advertising system for WvW. Stacking should not be considered here since that is one they should already be addressing.

    For some of the map objectives could see these working like some of the races do in EB. I picture these more as tools that players can flip for control and some small gain to their side. If anything we still need less incentive for people to zerg and more for them to spread out. This wouldn't be adding in PvE that isn't already present on the busiest maps already. Course I do fall on the side that says add more objective to the field.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You can complain about feedback about making suggestions, but the thing is if you're going to make suggestions at least make sure they're not over the top, but viable, worthwhile, take into account the amount of time and work anet would have to put into it, and how well received the change would be to wvw players given the past history of development.

    Like asking to remove eotm is a pointless change, there's no actual benefit to removing it, just because no one uses it right now doesn't mean it might not be useful again in the future. Asking to poll whether or not to change your most popular map for another is a head scratcher, should we go back to asking to replace alpines with desert again too?

    Asking to expand a map when frankly no one complains about the size of the current ones, and the complaints about mounts isn't even about moving around maps making them feel small, it's about getting people off them. Population is also decreasing lately, there's less people on maps overall all times of the day, there's actually too much space for most of the day, the maps are not full there's no point expanding them, there's actually space to add more stuff if needed. Actually I would even say ebg is more popular because it's has more objectives that are faster to reach than the borderlands, you can find action much faster, you'll find fights around smc much more than any other objective in the game.

    This is actually why I think the other suggestion to turn the homebl maps into 1v1 maps was actually a decent and viable idea, it actually brings down the amount of maps for a side to play from 4 to 3 while still giving all 3 teams a chance to face each other, 2 maps on a 1v1 basis, and ebg for it's usual 3 way, while also taking away the homebl concept and opening the way to add more 3 way maps like eotm into a match if they need to go back to 4 maps, no changes are required for the maps other than having one less team spawn on borderlands while still having 3 way and focused 2 way fighting over maps.

    We can also try to jam a bunch of rewards into wvw, but the bottom line is, people are not going to stay in wvv unless they learn to enjoy wvw game play and gw2 combat, those are the two biggest hurdles for pve players getting into wvw, not the rewards. You only have to take one look at the gift of battle complaints and know how much pve players hate being in wvw, just dumping more rewards into wvw isn't going to magically help it, it'll attract players, it might give them some long term goals, but if the game play isn't fun to them they won't stay, class and combat balance need to be addressed for this, and given the next balance preview, that ain't ever happening.

    New wvw only legendary weapons cool..... now have you noticed how long it took for them to release the gen 2 legendary weapons? 4 years. Good luck getting anet to give out free skins, their art department is busy making black lion weapons, outfits, mounts, glider skins every month that they need to sell to keep gw2 afloat.

    Mastery in every part of the game is fluff progression, not sure what else you're expecting, it's there to give players an extra goal to work on. Inspiring presence when people have been complaining about stuff like Presence of the keep buff for 4 years now? this is the part where you go back in history and think if this is something the players really want or not. Might want to come up with more than 2 suggestions if you want to demolish the current 22 lines of mastery. Again asking for a complete rework is a pointless change, no actual reason to drop the current mastery lines, just add more new ones.

    I do agree some more objectives might be good to fill in some empty areas, but they need to be pvp focused, also the amount you want to add is way overboard. Ideas like caves and tunnels and jungle are ok, but not with how terrible the camera is in this game, fighting somewhere that's like auric basin is good, fighting somewhere like watergate at red keep in ebg is a kitten nightmare because of how low the ceiling is at the cave entrance.

    Lastly, I disagree, class balance is on top of the list of importance for me, because if a person is not enjoying their class they won't play the game, period. A map like EBG while it is outdated, is still enjoyable on the class I enjoy playing, you can go to WoW and see people enjoying 13 year old battleground maps. Your class is what you're playing 100% of the time in the game, no matter what area or map of the game you're playing in. Class and combat need to always be the top things to balance and look after.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    1v1 would be bad, as it would remove the chances of the weaker side from being able to compete. At least with 3 sided matches one of the weaker sides can attack the stronger whilst they are focused on the other weaker team.

    I'd go the other way and make wvw two 5 sided copies of an expanded EB. But the game engine/servers wouldn't be able to cope, so I'll just shelve that idea. Not to mention the resources just aren't going to be spent on wvw to that extent.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You guys do understand that concept only affects the borderland map right? Where it's mostly 1v1 anyways, and the weakest team gets double teamed more often than the other two(because this game promotes beating up the weakest not the strongest for points), and only sometimes you might get the 3rd team involved on that map is if you have bay and hills getting hit at the same time, or some fight guild look for some 3 way action and not actually taking anything.

    Not the entire matchup going 1v1, ebg is still there. Overall sides tend to defend ebg, defend home, there's barely enough people to occupy all 4 maps much even 3 or even 2 for some servers, even on a big server like BG who mostly just maintain a keep and tower on the enemy maps. Again this idea doesn't even require any changes to the maps, just take out the home team spawning on top of the map.

    But anyways that's for the other thread.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Acheron.4731Acheron.4731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    Can someone provide Cliff's notes for me?
    p.s. please type large, I pulled one of my eyes out after trying to read the first post

    Don't Worry, My Dutch is OK

  • Dagger.2035Dagger.2035 Member ✭✭✭

    Larger maps with more objectives seem like the wrong way to go. Smaller maps in PvP games tend to be more popular and feel more intense since it is easier to find fights and get back to the action.

    I also don’t like the idea of adding more PvE to the maps, especially if it provides an advantage during fights. Maybe they can have different areas for different players. EB can remain as is for PvP. Maybe remove the outer gates to make it easier to have a battle royal in Stonemist castle.

    Then more PvE elements could be added to the northern portion of the home borderlands. Especially the empty corners. This will allow PvE players to get their feet wet and fight bosses without affecting WvW gameplay.

    Server: Sorrow's Furnace
    Guilds: [DOA] Descendants Of Ascalon, [LOOT] Legendary Order Of Thieves
    Characters: Black Hooded S\D Thief, Celestial Herald & Power Reaper

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    You can complain about feedback about making suggestions, but the thing is if you're going to make suggestions at least make sure they're not over the top, but viable, worthwhile, take into account the amount of time and work anet would have to put into it, and how well received the change would be to wvw players given the past history of development.

    Like asking to remove eotm is a pointless change, there's no actual benefit to removing it, just because no one uses it right now doesn't mean it might not be useful again in the future. Asking to poll whether or not to change your most popular map for another is a head scratcher, should we go back to asking to replace alpines with desert again too?

    Asking to expand a map when frankly no one complains about the size of the current ones, and the complaints about mounts isn't even about moving around maps making them feel small, it's about getting people off them. Population is also decreasing lately, there's less people on maps overall all times of the day, there's actually too much space for most of the day, the maps are not full there's no point expanding them, there's actually space to add more stuff if needed. Actually I would even say ebg is more popular because it's has more objectives that are faster to reach than the borderlands, you can find action much faster, you'll find fights around smc much more than any other objective in the game.

    This is actually why I think the other suggestion to turn the homebl maps into 1v1 maps was actually a decent and viable idea, it actually brings down the amount of maps for a side to play from 4 to 3 while still giving all 3 teams a chance to face each other, 2 maps on a 1v1 basis, and ebg for it's usual 3 way, while also taking away the homebl concept and opening the way to add more 3 way maps like eotm into a match if they need to go back to 4 maps, no changes are required for the maps other than having one less team spawn on borderlands while still having 3 way and focused 2 way fighting over maps.

    We can also try to jam a bunch of rewards into wvw, but the bottom line is, people are not going to stay in wvv unless they learn to enjoy wvw game play and gw2 combat, those are the two biggest hurdles for pve players getting into wvw, not the rewards. You only have to take one look at the gift of battle complaints and know how much pve players hate being in wvw, just dumping more rewards into wvw isn't going to magically help it, it'll attract players, it might give them some long term goals, but if the game play isn't fun to them they won't stay, class and combat balance need to be addressed for this, and given the next balance preview, that ain't ever happening.

    New wvw only legendary weapons cool..... now have you noticed how long it took for them to release the gen 2 legendary weapons? 4 years. Good luck getting anet to give out free skins, their art department is busy making black lion weapons, outfits, mounts, glider skins every month that they need to sell to keep gw2 afloat.

    Mastery in every part of the game is fluff progression, not sure what else you're expecting, it's there to give players an extra goal to work on. Inspiring presence when people have been complaining about stuff like Presence of the keep buff for 4 years now? this is the part where you go back in history and think if this is something the players really want or not. Might want to come up with more than 2 suggestions if you want to demolish the current 22 lines of mastery. Again asking for a complete rework is a pointless change, no actual reason to drop the current mastery lines, just add more new ones.

    I do agree some more objectives might be good to fill in some empty areas, but they need to be pvp focused, also the amount you want to add is way overboard. Ideas like caves and tunnels and jungle are ok, but not with how terrible the camera is in this game, fighting somewhere that's like auric basin is good, fighting somewhere like watergate at red keep in ebg is a kitten nightmare because of how low the ceiling is at the cave entrance.

    Lastly, I disagree, class balance is on top of the list of importance for me, because if a person is not enjoying their class they won't play the game, period. A map like EBG while it is outdated, is still enjoyable on the class I enjoy playing, you can go to WoW and see people enjoying 13 year old battleground maps. Your class is what you're playing 100% of the time in the game, no matter what area or map of the game you're playing in. Class and combat need to always be the top things to balance and look after.

    See I like alot of the feedback here, this is good. The issue with your last sentiment the only part I have an issue with is that Balance will never happen no matter how hard we labor to push them too it. You and I both know they lack the knowledge and needed skills to maintain balance, Because we do want new things for our classes or at least new classes in general right? I mean new toys to play with is good, so the moment another batch of E-specs comes out we are at it again but if they don't release them people get bored and move on. So its a Catch 22, damned if they do and damned if they don't~

    I would love to put balance on my 100% top priority list but going based on the previous era's and incarnations of guild wars 2, I doubt it will ever happen and thus is a waste of effort. I could infact go ahead and balance their classes do the number tweaks, do the skill and mechanics fixes and people wouldn't like it and on the other-side A-net would ignore it. Many people have offered them really good and solid feedback, going so far as admitting their class is over-preforming and instead of listening to the players they outright ignore us.

    I also agree with your sentiment about people not staying no matter how many rewards they offer, It was merely something for the existing players in the mode. Im not sure how to fix the getting people adjusted to it and liking it, from what I see and have witnessed the vast majority of the player base hates pvp of any kinda WvW or otherwise. So you won't ever get those people, its the same issue raids face more people hate them then those willing to try and enjoy them at least in the vastness that is our dwindling community.

    All and all a good post, thank you.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well we can say balance will never happen, so no point to put it on the priority list (even now we tell them barriers and boons need nerfing and they do the opposite)... but it's wvw, 99% of all the other suggestions will never be heard, acknowledged, or implemented either. We've had 7 years of development, thousands of suggestions, and very few player made suggestions have actually made it into the game to date. All this is also a waste of time.

    Balance still needs to be maintained and should still be the top priority even as little they've managed to do (and I don't even mean perfect balance I mean reasonable as in not letting spike damage get out of hand, not letting condi get easy dump while dealing high damage, not let stealth get out of hand), like too many broken skills/specs have had too much play time over the years. And class balance, we've had 2 expansions, multiple gear stats and 3 different class specs available, and yet some classes still can't be viable at solo or group play.

    A newbie pve player walks into wvw to work on getting their shiny new unique wvw gear skin, gets ganked by a poison dump deadeye or one wolf pack rapid fire soulbeast in the first 5 mins, doubt they sticking around for 10 more weeks of that.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Well we can say balance will never happen, so no point to put it on the priority list (even now we tell them barriers and boons need nerfing and they do the opposite)... but it's wvw, 99% of all the other suggestions will never be heard, acknowledged, or implemented either. We've had 7 years of development, thousands of suggestions, and very few player made suggestions have actually made it into the game to date. All this is also a waste of time.

    Balance still needs to be maintained and should still be the top priority even as little they've managed to do (and I don't even mean perfect balance I mean reasonable as in not letting spike damage get out of hand, not letting condi get easy dump while dealing high damage, not let stealth get out of hand), like too many broken skills/specs have had too much play time over the years. And class balance, we've had 2 expansions, multiple gear stats and 3 different class specs available, and yet some classes still can't be viable at solo or group play.

    A newbie pve player walks into wvw to work on getting their shiny new unique wvw gear skin, gets ganked by a poison dump deadeye or one wolf pack rapid fire soulbeast in the first 5 mins, doubt they sticking around for 10 more weeks of that.

    I agree completely with everything you just said, and I feel the same way .( I hate how over-tuned mirage and the thieves "E-specs" are.) But in reality I've stopped expecting anything from A-net on that field. Id rather them just add more E-specs that counter 100% of everything the others bring, and will rock them from here to kingdom come just by raw mechanics than trust them to "Rework" anything.

    Because when they rework something they either low-ball it and remove EVERYTHING from it, or they throw it to the level of god-dom and we have the issues we have now. There is no medium or middle ground, they are very reactionary in balance and they are very quick to just clap a class (At core level) than look at the interactions to make any given spec "Op". Prime example is soul-beast, ranger and druid. Druid and Core ranged got diddled HARD and soul-beast didn't? Why? Well simple they nerfed the base damage of weapon skills, stripped Druid of a lot of what made it competitive and then left soul-beast with all its multipliers. So EVEN WITH the nerfs it received it still didn't get a proper nerf.

    The only thing that happened was druid and Core were threw into the dumpster fire even further, which is why you only really see soul-beast. There are some druids but they build to sustain and be annoying rather than outright kill people. They hold you long enough for others to show up and then just get credit, they can't compete on an actual level. Same goes for Core of most classes; Their "E-specs" even with trade-offs just preform and behave better, and they offer way more tools and playthings to use and when one happens to be over-preforming they nerf the core apsects of the whole class and then push more people to what is broken.

    Things that should of been fixed a long time ago include.
    1. The removal of the mass amount of multipliers soul-beast gets, this could be done easily by making the multipliers from other trait-lines NOT stacking with the soul-beast benefits. Meaning that say Oh I don't know, "Sic'em" Doesn't effect the player because we've coded it so the game recoginizes that the player is not the pet.(Easy. but left undone. Rather they just nerfed sic'em.)
    2. Scourges were sold as a support spec, they should not and never should of been capable of the devastating damage they are allowed to deal. Its ludicrous that a "Support" spec can do that level of carnage and sure the buff/nerf we recently got might fix it but something in my gut tells me I no. As Im already seeing them just continue their conquest and destroying people.
    3. Firebrand is in the same boat as scourge. It should be a support orientated spec, Not a support +Tanky +Unkillable condi-machine. It shouldn't be getting to be this master of all trades we have now, thats broken as hell.
    4. Spellbreakers still wreck people, but they are one of the few we have to go in and slap scourges and firebrands so I can't say to fix them until the other two are addressed.
    5. Do we even need to talk about holosmiths?
    6. Dead-eyes and mirages, same beast different colors but they have similar issues.

    All of this should of been dealt with, and this has left the PoF specs as the dominate force and you see them more than the HoT specs outside of herald. The only reason you see heralds at all is because its revenants ONE useful E-spec because Renegade is trash for any sort of competitive gameplay, Im sure if Renegade had tools to stand in like the other specs they would be more numerous than herald. (Both of these specs are support orientated specs, that deal damage and act more dps buffs than support. Another problem.)

    The issue really stems from A-net being UNWILLING to actually enforce the role they designed the spec for, they believe everything must be dps and capable of mass dps and spam aoe's all day long. This will not ever change and I doubt it will get better, which is why I don't even touch balance in this thread and won't touch it because all Ill do is get suspended for getting heated. (Probs gonna happen for this response, more than likely.)

    There is also class bias... but thats been a thing since Gw1 so nothing new there....

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Indeed, it's very tiresome to see them deal with extremes so much. It's like they operate with no guidelines either like for instance...

    The skill "Sic 'Em!" is providing a damage modifier that is significantly higher than any other single persistent bonus damage increase, so we're reducing the bonus to match other similar skills in a competitive setting.
    "Sic 'Em!": Reduced the bonus damage applied to a merged soulbeast from 40% to 25% in PvP and WvW only. Damage bonus for pets remains unchanged.

    Two and a half months later...

    Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.

    SMH like kitten...

    1. Scourges were sold as a support spec, they should not and never should of been capable of the devastating damage they are allowed to deal. Its ludicrous that a "Support" spec can do that level of carnage and sure the buff/nerf we recently got might fix it but something in my gut tells me I no. As Im already seeing them just continue their conquest and destroying people.

    Honestly the day I played the open beta for PoF I thought the barrier should have been given to engineers as their thing to get them into group play, not scourges, as they already filled an important role for damage and corruption. Only reason I think they got the barrier was to make up for being out of shroud now compared to core and reaper, but that obviously could have been handled differently like they're doing now with the death magic revamp.

    But yeah they made major mistakes giving over so much to scourges and firebrands, they were already essential parts of the meta since the beginning of the game.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Indeed, it's very tiresome to see them deal with extremes so much. It's like they operate with no guidelines either like for instance...

    The skill "Sic 'Em!" is providing a damage modifier that is significantly higher than any other single persistent bonus damage increase, so we're reducing the bonus to match other similar skills in a competitive setting.
    "Sic 'Em!": Reduced the bonus damage applied to a merged soulbeast from 40% to 25% in PvP and WvW only. Damage bonus for pets remains unchanged.

    Two and a half months later...

    Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.

    SMH like kitten...

    1. Scourges were sold as a support spec, they should not and never should of been capable of the devastating damage they are allowed to deal. Its ludicrous that a "Support" spec can do that level of carnage and sure the buff/nerf we recently got might fix it but something in my gut tells me I no. As Im already seeing them just continue their conquest and destroying people.

    Honestly the day I played the open beta for PoF I thought the barrier should have been given to engineers as their thing to get them into group play, not scourges, as they already filled an important role for damage and corruption. Only reason I think they got the barrier was to make up for being out of shroud now compared to core and reaper, but that obviously could have been handled differently like they're doing now with the death magic revamp.

    But yeah they made major mistakes giving over so much to scourges and firebrands, they were already essential parts of the meta since the beginning of the game.

    I feel like the death-magic change really didn't do squat honestly. It feels even more cumbersome and the new "Deaths Carapace" Does nothing for your build, I tried to make it work and it feels horrible another pointless rework that just threw another traitline down the gutter. Saddest part is scourges and Firebrands will never be removed from required in WvW unless they get a hard rework and dedicated to support which we know will never happen.

    With them as they are, and dead-eyes, daredevils and mirages as well holo's as they are balance won't matter. I feel like you're correct they have no guidelines and often just do knee jerk reactions to our feedback and basically do the "Fine, im taking my ball and going home."