Marriage in Tyria — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Marriage in Tyria

I’ve been wondering about Human customs when it comes to mourning periods, and that got me thinking about marriage in general across the various races. I can’t recall the topic coming up throughout the story in the base game (havent done the expansions yet), and I can’t find much on it on the wiki either. I'm sorry this is so messy, if someone more knowledgeable could fill me in then that'd be appreciated. Tbh I don’t really know what to put here, so here’s just some thoughts and observations I’ve made from the game.

Humans: As opposed to some of the other races, marriage seem to be a cornerstone of society in human cultures. Nobles appear to be pressured to marry other nobles, and Queen Jennah is (apparently?) pushed to marry and have an heir. But do we know anything more concrete than that? Can nobles refuse to get married if their parents have decided it, or do they have no say when it comes to marriage? Can a noble marry a commoner with few consequences? Would a commoner be more free to wed who they want, and choose when? Seeing as Kryta is kinda medieval-y, I’m guessing nobility would usually marry in their early-mid twenties (as what was the norm in most European countries), and other maybe a bit later… but idk.

The only human/human couple that comes to mind in the main story is Kasmeer and Marjory, but they’re not married, are they? It doesn’t seem Tyrian cultures in general are particularly homophobic (maybe the Flame Legion or Sons of Svanir, but beyond those ??), so is there a reason they haven’t married?

Norn: The Wiki says: “Norn are known to marry, but only if the couple is of equal status. During the wedding, someone must speak on behalf of the couple in order to show that they are a worthy match for each other.” “Known to marry” - for me that implies it happens, just that most Norns don’t. If Norns don't have an upper class/nobility like Humans have, then "equal status" I guess would be that their legends have to be as epic/grand, or whatever. Or maybe they’d have to own land/be about as wealthy or something. Does the whole "equal status" thing appear in-game?

Kinda stupid question, but wouldn’t that mean that a Norn Commander/PC would have a hard time finding another Norn that would be considered worthy to get to marry them? I get that it would be a bad idea to refuse the PC, but if the Norn are really bent on tradition then it might cause some problems…

Charr: I’ve barely played them, but my understanding is that most Charr don’t marry, but instead pick a mate in order to have kids, and once the child (cub?) is born the parents don’t have any obligations to each other. Or… something like that?

With the Flame Legion being heavily misogynistic, is (forced) marriage common? Or maybe the other way around? The Flame Legion wiki site is very sparse on the “culture” section, unfortunately.

Sylvari: The wiki mentions how Sylvari view romantical love and sexuality, but doesn’t mention marriage. Personally, I’d find it a bit weird if most Sylvari adopted what seems to be a chiefly Human tradition. That some people would, yeah, but I can’t imagine it would be something the Pale Tree would have “instructed” them on.

Asura: No idea honestly. Sorry, I haven't played Asura.

Comments

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Norn

    Norn marriage doesn't come up much in GW2 but there was a whole quest about it in GW1 (I think the only difference between the male and female versions is which norn starts the quest and some of the dialogue):
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Prenuptial_Disagreement_(female)
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Prenuptial_Disagreement_(male)

    (And to answer the inevitable follow-up question no, norn and humans can't have children together, but presumably the norn in question didn't know that.)

    Then Gwen and Kieran Thackery have a norn style wedding in Hearts of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Wedding

    As in other aspects of their society a norn's status is based on what they've achieved. Traditionally that's great beasts they've hunted and fights they've won, but other things can count such as being a great crafter or leader. I'm not sure how exactly status is determined, other than by consensus, or how they work out if two norn are equal if they've done very different things. But the wedding itself involves having people speak for them, to prove that they're equals so I suspect they always find a way to work it out. (Especially since the GW1 quest implies that at least some norn simply wouldn't be attracted to someone they thought was unworthy of them.)

    Also they will continue to do things seperately after marriage, which means there could be more inequality between them. Braham was raised by his father specifically because his mother left to grow her legend, which he supported - even insisting no one should tell her when he was dying so she wasn't tempted to come home. There's also a few other norn in-game who will mention that their partner is out adventuring. But I suppose at that point it's up to the couple to work it out between them and I imagine some like the idea of taking turns catching up, and then out-doing their partner.

    Sylvari

    Sylvari either have no families, or are all one family depending on how you look at it. (Views differ between the sylvari themselves.) I can't find it now but I'm sure I remember reading that in spite of that some sylvari will form 'family' groups with older and younger members taking on roles of parents and children, and they definitely will have romantic relationships. So it wouldn't surprise me if some of them have weddings, but I suspect it's very variable between couples with each one doing what seems right for them rather than any specific traditions. (And sylvari can't have children at all, so there would be no concerns with producing suitable heirs.)

    Asura

    Asura will have romantic relationships, but I'm not sure if they get married. An asuran couple are part of your Krewe if you choose the College of Dynamics during character creation, and there's various asura around Rata Sum who talk about relationships, but no mention of how they choose a partner or what their marriage ceremony (if any) involves.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "Not dead which eternal lie, stranger eons death may die. Drain you of your sanity, face the thing that should not be"

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "Also they will continue to do things seperately after marriage, which means there could be more inequality between them. Braham was raised by his father specifically because his mother left to grow her legend, which he supported - even insisting no one should tell her when he was dying so she wasn't tempted to come home."

    I wonder to what extent this is actually Norn culture as it always was, and to what extent this is Norn culture being negatively impacted by the loss of Owl, who seemed to have some role in family stuff.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    poor Logan will remain a virgin til his deathbed if King Anet does not approve their marriage

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/54565/so-when-will-jennah-get-married-kryta-get-a-king

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • @Athri.3780 said:

    Norn: The Wiki says: “Norn are known to marry, but only if the couple is of equal status. During the wedding, someone must speak on behalf of the couple in order to show that they are a worthy match for each other.” “Known to marry” - for me that implies it happens, just that most Norns don’t. If Norns don't have an upper class/nobility like Humans have, then "equal status" I guess would be that their legends have to be as epic/grand, or whatever. Or maybe they’d have to own land/be about as wealthy or something. Does the whole "equal status" thing appear in-game?

    Kinda stupid question, but wouldn’t that mean that a Norn Commander/PC would have a hard time finding another Norn that would be considered worthy to get to marry them? I get that it would be a bad idea to refuse the PC, but if the Norn are really bent on tradition then it might cause some problems…

    Yes, the Norn PC is pretty much screwed if he's an hetero guy ( a woman could perhaps have Braham as almost as legendary as herself, for instance). He just raked too much legendary feats over the course of the game to find a worthy mate. Now, I guess nothing prevent him from having a fling with someone, and children, (and that's valid for both genders) but I don't really know how the Norns would feel about it. As many things with them, I guess it would really depends on the individual : should one only have children with someone of equal status at that time, or is it okay?

    What we do know is that marriage is not as binding for them as for humans : the couple can be separated for years (like Knut and his wife) or even simply "divorce" when they don't feel like following the same path.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    I think it's noteworthy how open the Asura couples we met were with being in love, compared to, say, Norn or Charr (looking at you, Eir and Rytlock, "forgetting" to even mention their children for all those years). Often, we only see Asura focussed on their research and work. I've seen people speculating they must be pretty cold-hearted.
    But when we remember this couple from the early personal story, or Elli and Zott, or Tonn and Ceera... Speaking of Tonn, didn't he mention he and Ceera were married?

    So, Asura might not have romance as their lifegoal or anything, but I guess when they do fall in love, they can be pretty serious about it.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2019

    i dislike "fun histories", but a side history, where commander will act as cupid for Jennah/Logan, and with along a introduction of "marriage" mechanic will be a good idea.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • @Danikat.8537 Thank you so much for the write-up and the links! I haven’t played GW1, so those were very interesting to read.
    Since Norn value freedom and individualism, that a Norn couple wouldn't be as "beholden" to each other after marriage makes sense. In the Eir/Braham's case it was pretty extreme though, and considering how family-oriented the Norn (and ancient Norse for that matter) are, that kind of situation might be an exception if it was Braham's dad who made the decision. I also think so. That the couple takes turns being with children/running the home, and making a name for themselves does seem to line up with what we’re shown.

    What you say about Norns not finding people “unequal” to them attractive though is interesting. It’s probably not spoken of in-game, but it does make me wonder if a spouse who were unable to “catch up” to their husband/wife, would then lose their “status” as an equal, and if it would be grounds for divorce/separation.

    @perilisk.1874 good point. The wiki describes Owl as representing "giving teachings of taking care of one's children", and reminding Norns that hunting isn't only about killing, but also about providing and protecting others (presumably mainly the family). Maybe the whole "equality" thing with Norn marriages also changed when Owl died.

    @crepuscular.9047 thanks for the link, it was really interesting to read!

    @Valmir.4590 Yeah, I was thinking Braham might be a possible match for a straight Norn woman Commander too. For a hetero dude, unless he could marry someone who's not a Norn, I can't think of anyone either. And yeah, good point about flings. If having kids without being married brings shame on the family (no matter gender) then Norns might try to avoid getting romantic feelings for people who don't have as many achievements as they do. And of course, there's the question of how being born to two "unequal" and/or unmarried parents would affect the child.

    Maybe this changes with the expansions, but it would be nice if there were more main story Norn npcs.

    @Fenella.2634 oh that's really sweet. it's a pretty drastic difference from the Charr or Norn yeah. thanks, i didn't know that about the Asura.

  • from Ghosts of Ascalon we know that Charr sometimes mate for life.
    from in game npc chatter we know that asuran daddies can be pretty protective when their daughters go out with a young man (chaperone-golem in Metrica)
    sylvari are all siblings - and do not care. some choose to play 'married couple' others do not, and then there are those whose games involve more than just two
    humans marry
    norn couples can be found on the norn maps

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Valmir.4590 said:

    @Athri.3780 said:

    Norn: The Wiki says: “Norn are known to marry, but only if the couple is of equal status. During the wedding, someone must speak on behalf of the couple in order to show that they are a worthy match for each other.” “Known to marry” - for me that implies it happens, just that most Norns don’t. If Norns don't have an upper class/nobility like Humans have, then "equal status" I guess would be that their legends have to be as epic/grand, or whatever. Or maybe they’d have to own land/be about as wealthy or something. Does the whole "equal status" thing appear in-game?

    Kinda stupid question, but wouldn’t that mean that a Norn Commander/PC would have a hard time finding another Norn that would be considered worthy to get to marry them? I get that it would be a bad idea to refuse the PC, but if the Norn are really bent on tradition then it might cause some problems…

    Yes, the Norn PC is pretty much screwed if he's an hetero guy ( a woman could perhaps have Braham as almost as legendary as herself, for instance). He just raked too much legendary feats over the course of the game to find a worthy mate. Now, I guess nothing prevent him from having a fling with someone, and children, (and that's valid for both genders) but I don't really know how the Norns would feel about it. As many things with them, I guess it would really depends on the individual : should one only have children with someone of equal status at that time, or is it okay?

    What we do know is that marriage is not as binding for them as for humans : the couple can be separated for years (like Knut and his wife) or even simply "divorce" when they don't feel like following the same path.

    I think a male norn player character could potentially marry someone who had done something totally different, like a highly respected sharman or teacher, or a high ranking Wolfborn. They may not have killed any dragons, but they've learned things no one else knew about one of the Spirits, or inspired a generation of norn, or kept the largest city in the history of the norn running or whatever. (I'd say a crafter too, but the player character could potentially also be a master crafter.)

    Or alternatively there are plenty of examples of people in real life from very traditional cultures with strict rules on who they can marry who chose to go against that. The norn tradition doesn't seem that strict since the only requirement appears to be that you can find two people to speak up at your wedding to say you're worthy of each other. So maybe the PC could marry whoever they want and just have to deal with occasional snide comments about how you're too good for her and she's using you.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "Not dead which eternal lie, stranger eons death may die. Drain you of your sanity, face the thing that should not be"

  • @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Valmir.4590 said:

    @Athri.3780 said:

    Norn: The Wiki says: “Norn are known to marry, but only if the couple is of equal status. During the wedding, someone must speak on behalf of the couple in order to show that they are a worthy match for each other.” “Known to marry” - for me that implies it happens, just that most Norns don’t. If Norns don't have an upper class/nobility like Humans have, then "equal status" I guess would be that their legends have to be as epic/grand, or whatever. Or maybe they’d have to own land/be about as wealthy or something. Does the whole "equal status" thing appear in-game?

    Kinda stupid question, but wouldn’t that mean that a Norn Commander/PC would have a hard time finding another Norn that would be considered worthy to get to marry them? I get that it would be a bad idea to refuse the PC, but if the Norn are really bent on tradition then it might cause some problems…

    Yes, the Norn PC is pretty much screwed if he's an hetero guy ( a woman could perhaps have Braham as almost as legendary as herself, for instance). He just raked too much legendary feats over the course of the game to find a worthy mate. Now, I guess nothing prevent him from having a fling with someone, and children, (and that's valid for both genders) but I don't really know how the Norns would feel about it. As many things with them, I guess it would really depends on the individual : should one only have children with someone of equal status at that time, or is it okay?

    What we do know is that marriage is not as binding for them as for humans : the couple can be separated for years (like Knut and his wife) or even simply "divorce" when they don't feel like following the same path.

    I think a male norn player character could potentially marry someone who had done something totally different, like a highly respected sharman or teacher, or a high ranking Wolfborn. They may not have killed any dragons, but they've learned things no one else knew about one of the Spirits, or inspired a generation of norn, or kept the largest city in the history of the norn running or whatever. (I'd say a crafter too, but the player character could potentially also be a master crafter.)

    Or alternatively there are plenty of examples of people in real life from very traditional cultures with strict rules on who they can marry who chose to go against that. The norn tradition doesn't seem that strict since the only requirement appears to be that you can find two people to speak up at your wedding to say you're worthy of each other. So maybe the PC could marry whoever they want and just have to deal with occasional snide comments about how you're too good for her and she's using you.

    I think you are on something there. The PC is such a legendary character by now, s/he really does not need to give a kitten nor does s/he need to take any abuse. Someone disrespects your partner? Welcome to a world of pain. Those dragon slaying hands can dish out plenty of punishment, if needed. Any partner for the PC is actually 'good enough' because the PC says so - and who in their right mind would disagree with a rampaging murder machine who killed three elder dragons, is the champion of another one, has taken down the White Mantle, fed Joko to his/her pet dragon and roflstomped Scarlet into the dust? Oh - and god killer to it. You know, just to round it up.

    Would anyone dare to disagree? Seriously? People would be that dumb? Insulting the partner of a person who was killed by a god just to come back and destroy that god as punishment for its bad manners?

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    I think you are on something there. The PC is such a legendary character by now, s/he really does not need to give a kitten nor does s/he need to take any abuse. Someone disrespects your partner? Welcome to a world of pain. Those dragon slaying hands can dish out plenty of punishment, if needed. Any partner for the PC is actually 'good enough' because the PC says so - and who in their right mind would disagree with a rampaging murder machine who killed three elder dragons, is the champion of another one, has taken down the White Mantle, fed Joko to his/her pet dragon and roflstomped Scarlet into the dust? Oh - and god killer to it. You know, just to round it up.

    Would anyone dare to disagree? Seriously? People would be that dumb? Insulting the partner of a person who was killed by a god just to come back and destroy that god as punishment for its bad manners?

    if i was a "legendary hero",. i will build a harem....

    the real problem with someone "marry" the PC, is the multitude os tastes of playerbase, and romantic stuff is too much subjetive.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    Asura- This is pre-release stuff, but- "Asura tend to practice serial monogamy, in that they have a serious romantic relationship with only one other asura at a time. Most of these relationships are equal partnerships which often (but not always) have a firm, pre-determined end date. Most often, such relationships come out of two asura who fall in love with the same beautiful concept. These marriages of the mind produce rapid development of ideas and increased conceptual paradigms. Oh yeah, and children. Relationships that break up tend to feature more fights about who gets the inventions than who gets the kids." That's basically all we have on the subject.

    Charr- Basically what's been said above. I don't know what VAHN's referring to- by my memory, Ghost of Ascalon's explanation of charr relationships kinda suggests they don't tend to last- but either way, they don't have any societal forms like marriage to recognize couplings.

    As for the Flame Legion... well, unless there's something in the new map, what we know isn't pretty.

    Human- There is a human marriage in Sea of Sorrows. Unfortunately, I don't have the book on me right now, but I remember that it involved a priest of Lyssa reading from scripture. There's probably some interesting insights to gain from that passage, if anyone can dig it up.

    As for the nobility, besides the pressures you've mentioned, the only thing that comes to mind is that there at least used to be a period of courtship, as Prince Rurik memorably, and awkwardly, involved us in. That, combined with Faren's behavior, suggests to me that arranged marriages either aren't present or at least aren't the norm.

    Norn- It might be important to note that what we know about norn marriage customs largely comes from GW1, and their culture has changed a lot since those days. Back then, for instance, norn you met in the wild would typically insist on a bout of combat before they'd speak with you, and homesteaders practically had to have an impressive name, or else risk having a stronger norn come along and claim their property. Given that the harsher edges have generally been worn away by GW2, I'd be willing to bet that the strict rule regarding equal legends is no longer in effect.

    That said, norn seem to more often have 'mates' than 'spouses'. That may just be a difference in terminology, or it may indicate that the norn often tend towards arrangements that are less formal, or less binding, than marriage.

    Sylvari- The NPC Danikat is thinking of is Androel. I don't really have anything to add here, either- the sylvari are too young to have any societal traditions regarding coupling. 'Partner' or 'love' seem to be the most common terms they use, and they do seem to have a taste for overblown romance.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    I think you are on something there. The PC is such a legendary character by now, s/he really does not need to give a kitten nor does s/he need to take any abuse. Someone disrespects your partner? Welcome to a world of pain. Those dragon slaying hands can dish out plenty of punishment, if needed. Any partner for the PC is actually 'good enough' because the PC says so - and who in their right mind would disagree with a rampaging murder machine who killed three elder dragons, is the champion of another one, has taken down the White Mantle, fed Joko to his/her pet dragon and roflstomped Scarlet into the dust? Oh - and god killer to it. You know, just to round it up.

    Would anyone dare to disagree? Seriously? People would be that dumb? Insulting the partner of a person who was killed by a god just to come back and destroy that god as punishment for its bad manners?

    if i was a "legendary hero",. i will build a harem....

    the real problem with someone "marry" the PC, is the multitude os tastes of playerbase, and romantic stuff is too much subjetive.

    Joko doesn't need his anymore. How do you feel about Choya?

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    As for the Flame Legion... well, unless there's something in the new map, what we know isn't pretty.

    Their presentation in the new map suggests this was far from universal. The female FL aren't happy at being free of their horrible males, they're worried about how other female charr look down on them for being noncombatants. And it was already kind of implicitly there -- for the Olmakhan to exist, there had to be a critical mass of FL charr who had the same similar views about social progress, and that would also there were quite a few who were on the same side (even if just quietly) but preferred to stay and reform rather than leave. Oddly enough, the Flame Legion were simultaneously the ugliest and the least alien of the legions in its social structure -- you can kind of see how the Olmakhan could evolve from what they were.

    Sylvari- The NPC Danikat is thinking of is Androel. I don't really have anything to add here, either- the sylvari are too young to have any societal traditions regarding coupling. 'Partner' or 'love' seem to be the most common terms they use, and they do seem to have a taste for overblown romance.

    The simple fact is that Sylvari other than the Pale Tree don't reproduce, that we know of, so many of the forces pushing societies to develop rules about sexual relationships, including marriage, aren't actually applicable for them (nor is there any purpose for them having sexual urges or relationships -- simple friendships serve the same psychological need). There's no such thing as a Sylvari shotgun marriage. They're aping sexual beings, and as a result they might be socially sexual beings, but they aren't biologically sexual beings, they're just a bunch of sterile drones modeled after human males and females.

  • @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Norn- It might be important to note that what we know about norn marriage customs largely comes from GW1, and their culture has changed a lot since those days. Back then, for instance, norn you met in the wild would typically insist on a bout of combat before they'd speak with you, and homesteaders practically had to have an impressive name, or else risk having a stronger norn come along and claim their property. Given that the harsher edges have generally been worn away by GW2, I'd be willing to bet that the strict rule regarding equal legends is no longer in effect.

    That said, norn seem to more often have 'mates' than 'spouses'. That may just be a difference in terminology, or it may indicate that the norn often tend towards arrangements that are less formal, or less binding, than marriage.

    It's quite true that the Norns have changed since GW1 - a place like Hoelbrak would have been impossible to sprout up back in the days. They seem a lot more sociable -even if they still retain a rather blatant distaste of physical weakness in more remote corners, as seen with the mother and her daughter travelling to Hoelbrak because the girl is sickly.

    Concerning the mate bit, it may just be a matter of terminology, or perhaps a sort of reference to the Pagan tradition of handfasting, which could make sense in such a culture (even if the temporary nature of such marriages perhaps wouldn't exist among Norns).

    @Danikat.8537 and @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 : I sort of agree that, in theory, other kind of Norns could have as equally impressive legends, such as the Havroun of a low-key or newly discovered Spirit of the Wild (it's a shame that we never saw spiritually inclined Norns going into Maguuma or ELona just in search of such Spirits, even if I guess they have little interests in moving outside their mountains and thus such entities wouldn't have much to bring them), some great bard or the likes. But our PC isn't just a killing machine, he also walked in the domains of the Gods (Spirits of Action), died and came back to life and has had access to trove of knowledge, especially if he's from the Priory.

    Also, I don't think a Norn, no matter how non-war-like he or she would be, would accept to have his/her mate being the one defending her worthiness. All things considered, the Norns are still very individualistic and there is a veneer of toxic masculinity in a lot of their society when you truly look at it, which extends also to females (be strong, don't show your feelings save anger, show that you're the thoughest baddass out there, etc.). There is a reason why the Sons of Svanirs are even more mysoginistic that the Flame Legion, after all. I don't think that most Norns would be able to endure the constant belittling and need for their heroic mate to protect them without snapping badly.

  • I like this thread, and the Norn stuff is fascinating. Agreeing the Norn focus seems to be parent/child versus partners. Possibly a side effect of their more nomadic existence pre-Jormag, with very small groups in infrequent communication?

    Charr could be argued have a sort of group marriage in the warband - the sexual side seems to be explicitly set up to be more freeform (combined with the social pressure to concentrate on the relationships in the warband versus family). Doesn't help getting the charr to talk about their feelings is like pulling teeth. I know Rytlock's not a good example of an average charr (or a model charr, either) but the charr who seems best at talking about what drives her is Almorra and General Soulkeeper walked away from the Legions, more or less to start her own. She's technically an apostate.

    It is interesting the best long-term relationships we've seen are Asura. They really try to play up emotional detachment (see the bunny Asura) and krewes don't have the same social impact of warbands, switching isn't nearly as big a deal. I guess when they do encounter something permanent it's a very big deal.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    As for the Flame Legion... well, unless there's something in the new map, what we know isn't pretty.

    Their presentation in the new map suggests this was far from universal. The female FL aren't happy at being free of their horrible males, they're worried about how other female charr look down on them for being noncombatants.

    Good to know!

    Sylvari- The NPC Danikat is thinking of is Androel. I don't really have anything to add here, either- the sylvari are too young to have any societal traditions regarding coupling. 'Partner' or 'love' seem to be the most common terms they use, and they do seem to have a taste for overblown romance.

    The simple fact is that Sylvari other than the Pale Tree don't reproduce, that we know of, so many of the forces pushing societies to develop rules about sexual relationships, including marriage, aren't actually applicable for them (nor is there any purpose for them having sexual urges or relationships -- simple friendships serve the same psychological need). There's no such thing as a Sylvari shotgun marriage. They're aping sexual beings, and as a result they might be socially sexual beings, but they aren't biologically sexual beings, they're just a bunch of sterile drones modeled after human males and females.

    Agreed, but I also think part of it is not having had time to form traditions of, well, any kind. There are seeds there- for example, the Pale Tree and the Dream are likely going to be a very strong foundation to build some sort of formal religion or spirituality on- but in the meantime, a lot of what the sylvari do is just taking pages from the human's book and layering their own theme on top of it, from knighthood to clothing to bars. I expect their version of courtship falls into the same category, something they don't need but are well on their way to making their own.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Human- There is a human marriage in Sea of Sorrows. Unfortunately, I don't have the book on me right now, but I remember that it involved a priest of Lyssa reading from scripture. There's probably some interesting insights to gain from that passage, if anyone can dig it up.

    I am afraid I can only provide the blessing that was used, not the context regarding the scene:

    “The road may be long, but you can walk it together.
    There may be storms, but you can shelter one another.
    The cold may come in winter, but you can shelter each other's warmth.
    Each companion to the other: two souls, united.
    May no weapon sever the bond that holds your hands together,
    And may no word sever the love that keeps your hearts as one.”
    — Sacred text of Lyssa. Goddess of love

  • @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    As for the Flame Legion... well, unless there's something in the new map, what we know isn't pretty.

    I believe it was briefly brought up in Guild Chat 91 that how females were treated largely depended on the officer (specifically, which Tribune, I think) in charge, and that the "breeding farms" were typically the worst-case scenario, where female POWs and rebellious Flame females were taken.

    Might be misremembering some specifics, but that's the general scope.

    My guess is that - retcon or not - Salina was under a particularly cruel and sadistist officer.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

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