Poll: Build Templates - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Poll: Build Templates

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  • https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wiki

    this. why cant anet do something like this, just copy and paste from a good build source like this website, why pay extra template slots?

  • googel.3278googel.3278 Member ✭✭✭

    @Potatoface.1287 said:
    https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wiki

    this. why cant anet do something like this, just copy and paste from a good build source like this website, why pay extra template slots?

    they need more money for unappetising skins, catered to people who believe skins are content for their pretend characters

  • Saniyah.1984Saniyah.1984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Saniyah.1984 said:
    I'm totally ok with paying for more equipment storage, but the templates too? That's too much!

    the templates will be like storage. So what is your problem exactly?

    Storage of Items not presets duh...

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    Core game content should never be paid for.

  • @Dante.1508 said:
    Core game content should never be paid for.

    good thing you get several slots for free. Like bag slots or bank slots. You need more? you pay for it. And paying for it keeps the servers running.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Core game content should never be paid for.

    good thing you get several slots for free. Like bag slots or bank slots. You need more? you pay for it. And paying for it keeps the servers running.

    Considering how much will that system cost, it should do way, way more than just keep the servers running. After all, we're talking about several worths of expacs kind of payment for it. So, one would expect several expacs of content in exchange.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Miss Lana.5276Miss Lana.5276 Member ✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Core game content should never be paid for.

    good thing you get several slots for free. Like bag slots or bank slots. You need more? you pay for it. And paying for it keeps the servers running.

    Or how about releasing a full paid expansion instead of free episodes to keep the servers running? That sounds like a better long-term strategy to me. Certainly did to a lot of other game companies. A new expac I would definitely pay for. These things? Absolutely not.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

  • Holgarf.6581Holgarf.6581 Member ✭✭✭

    @Miss Lana.5276 said:
    There's a lot of discussion around the paid aspect of the coming build templates. What's your opinion on the paid aspect?

    Sorry but it should be free. The fact GW1 had this and GW2 hasn't for over 7 years is first of all, totally unacceptable. Secondly, much of the content in the game has taken forever to come through while a lot of us have spent money on expansions and account upgrades and skins. Now I know, I know, ANet need to make money, but monetising every single thing that they neglected to put in is not at all fair and only shows how negative a buy once play free system can be. Of course, a bunch of slots in their entirety should be free, and additional ones purchasable.

  • Holgarf.6581Holgarf.6581 Member ✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Core game content should never be paid for.

    good thing you get several slots for free. Like bag slots or bank slots. You need more? you pay for it. And paying for it keeps the servers running.

    Lol... You mean 250 mat storage and two tiny bank tabs? A lot of crafting requires a stack of materials.

  • @Holgarf.6581 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Core game content should never be paid for.

    good thing you get several slots for free. Like bag slots or bank slots. You need more? you pay for it. And paying for it keeps the servers running.

    Lol... You mean 250 mat storage and two tiny bank tabs? A lot of crafting requires a stack of materials.

    and that is your choice. You could sell everything above 250 and then buy it back when needed. Or do not craft, but go with the stuff you find/earn. But you want to craft. And you want a big pile of mats. So your choice, your decision.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Holgarf.6581 said:
    Sorry but it should be free. The fact GW1 had this and GW2 hasn't for over 7 years is first of all, totally unacceptable.

    In my opinion, to be fair GW2 didn't have fractals or raids at launch so it may be that templates were decided against in favor of working on other features and content with the intention to circle back around to them when time/resources permitted. I would say the same about mounts since it was said early on that they weren't part of the plan (which wasn't an outright "no").

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Considering the bag/bank slots are paid, I don't see why the gear templates would be 100% free (seeing as they free up inventory space). If the gear templates didn't free up the bag space, then yeah, they might have been free.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Considering the bag/bank slots are paid, I don't see why the gear templates would be 100% free (seeing as they free up inventory space). If the gear templates didn't free up the bag space, then yeah, they might have been free.

    Part of the complaint, as I understand it, isn't so much the cost (ok, maybe it is), but the limit on the number of slots as compared to Arc which was for all intents and purposes limitless.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • I would have preferred unlimited templates (or a much higher template limit) to templates having gear storage built in.

    We already had the inventory system for that, and it was already monetised in both gold and gems.

    Now the extra bag slots and bags are going to be obsolete for equipment, and I should have just hoarded gems to buy build template slots instead?

    And then I won't even be able to buy enough build template/gear template slots for some of my characters anyways.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Considering the bag/bank slots are paid, I don't see why the gear templates would be 100% free (seeing as they free up inventory space). If the gear templates didn't free up the bag space, then yeah, they might have been free.

    Part of the complaint, as I understand it, isn't so much the cost (ok, maybe it is), but the limit on the number of slots as compared to Arc which was for all intents and purposes limitless.

    If arc tried to charge for their 3rd party program, it's almost certain a lot of people would get banned. Maybe they didn't charge because they didn't want to -or maybe they just couldn't.
    Anyways, blaming a company for trying to make money is kind of pointless. I also can't speak about the cost, because I don't know the price (but I assume it will be too high anyways btw :D ). The point here is -they charge for bag slots and as gear templates free inventory slots, there's no reason for them to be free.
    And as far as I understand this thread and OP's poll, the point is literally about it costing money, not it having potentially limited slots that can be paid for. That's what I'm answering to, because that was the question, it wasn't "should we be able to buy unlimited gear slots?" :p

  • Holgarf.6581Holgarf.6581 Member ✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Holgarf.6581 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Core game content should never be paid for.

    good thing you get several slots for free. Like bag slots or bank slots. You need more? you pay for it. And paying for it keeps the servers running.

    Lol... You mean 250 mat storage and two tiny bank tabs? A lot of crafting requires a stack of materials.

    and that is your choice. You could sell everything above 250 and then buy it back when needed. Or do not craft, but go with the stuff you find/earn. But you want to craft. And you want a big pile of mats. So your choice, your decision.

    No. It's not a big pile of mats if so many recipes require so many materials. It is obviously designed in a way to maximise the number of people buying extra slots as a necessity. Point being, the base storage quantity relative to the reicpies is tiny. If you expect people to clog their base default inventory size with mats, that's just ludicrous since the game purposely clutters inventory space to encourage bag slot purchases and if you have to store them in bank, the same applies.

    I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that every single aspect of the game requires purchases because they've been designed to hinder everyone and I feel that even though ANet need to make money for certain things, they shouldn't apply it to absolutely everything and massively inconvenience players to the point where things become ab irritating hindrance. Speaking of which, massively expensive permanent tools that don't share slots and still require swapping between characters via bank or, encouraging you to buy ludicrously expensive shared slots. Even then, you still have to swap them because not all characters can use them. Of course, ANet would love if everyone spent several hundred pounds on a mass of unbreakable tools for each character, but fortunately not everyone is that stupid or that desperate.

  • so how do you propose anet making money to keep the game running?

    oh and by the way, gold to gem? so what is your problem again?

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    so how do you propose anet making money to keep the game running?

    oh and by the way, gold to gem? so what is your problem again?

    Getting the gold to start with.. Try only playing Solo open world pve and see how fast the gems roll in..

  • Miss Lana.5276Miss Lana.5276 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Considering the bag/bank slots are paid, I don't see why the gear templates would be 100% free (seeing as they free up inventory space). If the gear templates didn't free up the bag space, then yeah, they might have been free.

    Part of the complaint, as I understand it, isn't so much the cost (ok, maybe it is), but the limit on the number of slots as compared to Arc which was for all intents and purposes limitless.

    It's a mixture of having a limit of pre-set builds you can have on one character as well as the paid aspect. Some parties have an issue with one or the other. Personally I have an issue with both. They're taking away a lot of utility that arc had and forcing players to pay for a severely lesser product, with little to no benefit for those who have legendary gear sets.

    They did add the "change all stats" functionality, but it's still super clunky to use, and won't even change sigils/runes. Some builds have half x half y stats, which makes it completely redundant.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    It's a bad move from Anet. You just can't introduce a paid feature that is worse (arguably, depending on the player needs) than what we already have for free. It really doesn't matter if it's a 3rd party mod. It is out there, it was not blacklisted and people use it. Mods have been a part of gaming forever and smart companies know how to use these 3rd party developers to their benefit. Censoring mods should be done in a way that it offers safety and fairness to players not limit their play choices.

    They should either make it better or they should allow the ArcDps to continue with templates. I think allowing ArcDps to continue would be the best option.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    It really doesn't matter if it's a 3rd party mod.

    It really does.

    It is out there, it was not blacklisted and people use it.

    It wasn't blacklisted because they were obligated to take it down when the official templates come. Being surprised that a company tries to monetize something when you can pretty much play for free is also hard to understand for me.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    This poll would have made more sense if done after the release of the feature. ;)

    Would it have? Sometimes a preventive judgement prevents negative things later.

    I try not to judge until I've tested the subject first. I understand the concerns, but still, premature judgment can have a negative influence as well.

    If anything, premature judgement is WORSE. It's based purely on assumptions and in this case, those assumptions will be biased.

    I'm with you on this one ... complain AFTER it's in the game if you don't like it. At least a person's judgement in that case is based on real experience.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    Sure, let's make ANet a charity.

    Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.
    I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

    Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    I understand charging for it but I am sad that the number of slots will be so low. Back in the arcDPS template days I had 10 builds for my guardian, 8 or so for my ranger, more than 20 for my engi, and more than 20 for warrior.

    Oh well I guess. A lot of people will be happy so that's good, definitely not me though.

    so you are still salty about that.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    Sure, let's make ANet a charity.

    Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.
    I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

    Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.

    You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

    Yes, from now on it will probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely wasn't.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As much as Id like it to be free I understand why its not, and like others have said its no different than storage (It literally will store your build, gear and everything for you.) I don't however agree with it being Character based rather should be account based, but whatever.)

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    Sure, let's make ANet a charity.

    Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.
    I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

    Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.

    You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

    Yes, from now on it will probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely wasn't.

    So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for? Aside from some token items, I can't think of any. Paying for services and features like this is definitely the standard expectation that EVERY player should have.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    Sure, let's make ANet a charity.

    Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.
    I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

    Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.

    You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

    Yes, from now on it will probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely wasn't.

    So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for?

    Wardrobe, for example. Level 500 of all crafts except for jeweller and cook. Ascended. LFG system. Fractals. Aetherpath. Whole of LS1, for that matter. All of those were introduced after launch. None of them were dependant on gemshop purchases to function - all could be utilized fully without spending even a single gem (whether bought for real cash or for gold).
    Need i go on?

    Besides, i have noticed that you still either haven't read beyond my first sentence or simply wanted to avoid addressing the core of my complain. You know, the one about selling each small individual feature at a cost that, when taken together, is much, much greater than the cost of an expac that once would have contained all those features.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    how I understand no one who use previous default from gw2 after that update not have some bad.
    Problem and some saddens only who use arc for templates. For me that arc was to heavy understandable for templates.

    Currently I use peace of paper to swap build from open world/fractal. Will I use templates - no. Is that update ok for me ? YES. This is good. Why not(for me)?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    I really don't see why people who don't need templates, never used templates and never thought about using even completely free of charge (superior) templates, feel the need to keep stating over and over how this new system from Anet is fine for them.
    Of course it is. You don't need templates, so any form of them no matter how bad or expensive is fine for you. We get it.
    It's just pretty unclear what that contributes to the discussion about the problems at hand for those who do require templates to properly play the game the way they play it.

    For those who actually made use of and need extensive Template functionality to enjoy the game, these Templates are not fit for purpose.
    Even if they were completely free, they would still be way too limited and clunky in their functionality to be an actual convenience.

    Don't get me wrong, features like the build sharing via chat etc. are amazing. But all those great features like that which they are adding in the patch will be useless for hardcore players, if you then can't save all those builds into a robust and extensive Template feature like Arc had.

    And no, we don't need to wait until the patch is out to make that assessment. They have shown their functionality on stream and we do know they don't fit our needs from that, unless they made some significant amount of changes in that month until release, which, considering they have been in development for 2 years to get to that point is pretty unlikely.
    Plus it's generally a good idea to try to give constructive feedback before something gets released, especially if it's something that's going to be charged for, as that makes post launch changes fairly unlikely once money has exchanged hands.

    The only thing we don't know for sure yet is how hard they are going to monetise this system in terms of pricing, just to get it to a point where it's half way useable, but from their preliminary ideas mentioned on stream it will be hundreds of Euros total, just to make one character of each profession playable in high demand content, or various different pieces of content.

    That's just not feasible or reasonable.

    We also don't need to save inventory space with Gear templates. We already bought bag slots with invisible bags for that, we already have invested into legendary gear for that.
    If I have two builds, using the exact same Trinkets and Weapons, and simply just need to change out some stats or runes on my Legendary armor between the two builds (for ex. full Berseker DPS DH to Power Quickbrand with some Diviners, or some Marauder with Firework Runes for Open World etc.), I will be expected to buy an entire Gear Template slot, even though it's going to save me literally 0 inventory slots, or at best 1 for the stack of different Runes, for a premium "bank tab level" price, just because there are x potential slots of inventory saved in that in theory, which doesn't apply to me.
    How is charging possibly nearly 10€ to save one inventory slot, per character, per build, okay in any way?

    The only alternative is swapping all those Legendary pieces by hand every time, which is not only a pain to do and makes everybody in a Raid or Fractal etc. wait for you, it also makes me question what the point of the Template feature then is in the first place, if we are still going to have to do most by hand anyway? And further, why to ever bother with Legendary gear, when all it does is make swapping by hand more of an inconvenience compared to Ascended sets.
    On top of that, of course, with only 6 maximum slots, even with buying all of them, it won't be nearly enough to save all the gear combinations between multiple different Raid builds, the stat difference of those same builds in Fractals considering the free stats gained there, as well as WvW and Open World builds.

    TL;DR:
    We get it, for those of you who don't need templates and never made use of them in the past, this coming system will be fine, and some of the free additions like build sharing via chat will indeed be a cool feature for everybody.
    But for those of us who actually need templates, those who the feature is actually targeted at, it's not fit for purpose.
    That is completely besides taking any cost even into account, which then just adds salt to the wound, making it even more prohibitive on top.

    //
    As an additional note, it's frankly pretty tiring, as well as diminishing to the discussion, to constantly have the arguments and points of those reasonably criticising this feature and it's downfalls misrepresented as simply entitlement about wanting everything for free etc.. Just because you are ignorant on the topic of templates and the gameplay demands of hardcore players, doesn't make the complains unreasonable, and just because you personally won't be negatively affected by this system is no cause for arrogance.
    You are doing no one favour with that, be it yourself, hardcore players, or Anet and the health of the game for that matter.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    It really doesn't matter if it's a 3rd party mod.

    It really does.

    It is out there, it was not blacklisted and people use it.

    It wasn't blacklisted because they were obligated to take it down when the official templates come. Being surprised that a company tries to monetize something when you can pretty much play for free is also hard to understand for me.

    If a company can't come up with a solution that is better than a free 3rd party mod and needs to actually ban that free mod to be able to sell their product then it has big issues.
    So yeah I guess it matters that ArcDPS is a free mod.
    I have nothing against monetization of good products that can stand up by their own. I do have concerns when you have to go and ban a free product made by one guy because your own product is worse.

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for?

    Wardrobe, for example. Level 500 of all crafts except for jeweller and cook. Ascended. LFG system. Fractals. Aetherpath. Whole of LS1, for that matter. All of those were introduced after launch. None of them were dependant on gemshop purchases to function - all could be utilized fully without spending even a single gem (whether bought for real cash or for gold).
    Need i go on?

    Besides, i have noticed that you still either haven't read beyond my first sentence or simply wanted to avoid addressing the core of my complain. You know, the one about selling each small individual feature at a cost that, when taken together, is much, much greater than the cost of an expac that once would have contained all those features.

    Except this time not everybody has to pay for the feature, only the people who will be using it will need to pay.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    Sure, let's make ANet a charity.

    Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.
    I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

    Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.

    You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

    Yes, from now on it will probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely wasn't.

    So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for?

    Wardrobe, for example. Level 500 of all crafts except for jeweller and cook. Ascended. LFG system. Fractals. Aetherpath. Whole of LS1, for that matter. All of those were introduced after launch. None of them were dependant on gemshop purchases to function - all could be utilized fully without spending even a single gem (whether bought for real cash or for gold).
    Need i go on?

    Besides, i have noticed that you still either haven't read beyond my first sentence or simply wanted to avoid addressing the core of my complain. You know, the one about selling each small individual feature at a cost that, when taken together, is much, much greater than the cost of an expac that once would have contained all those features.

    No, those aren't free. They are part of the core game you paid to get access to so my statement is correct; we pay for everything we get. But yes, please go on and demonstrate that you don't know what you give Anet money for. Besides, this comparision with the expansions cost makes no sense to begin with ... it's completely arbitrary and other quantity-based features were not introduced with expansions either. None of that argument makes any sense.

    And yes, i did read that ... that's also a demonstration you don't understand something. In this case, economy of scale. NO feature Anet can sell individually will EVER be cheaper than what you would pay for it bundled with an expansion. That's a completely reasonable expectation. It happens ALL the time everywhere.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2019

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    It really doesn't matter if it's a 3rd party mod.

    It really does.

    It is out there, it was not blacklisted and people use it.

    It wasn't blacklisted because they were obligated to take it down when the official templates come. Being surprised that a company tries to monetize something when you can pretty much play for free is also hard to understand for me.

    If a company can't come up with a solution that is better than a free 3rd party mod and needs to actually ban that free mod to be able to sell their product then it has big issues.
    So yeah I guess it matters that ArcDPS is a free mod.
    I have nothing against monetization of good products that can stand up by their own. I do have concerns when you have to go and ban a free product made by one guy because your own product is worse.

    What do you mean it "can't come up with a solution"? Arcdps couldn't monetize because it was 3rd party and if they -officially- tried, they'd get their software blacklisted. Anet can montize and that's why they do it. Where did you come with that idea that they "can't do it like 3rd party could" or that they "banned it because their is worse"? What solution do you propose here? Other than "just do it for free lul", because that's just being silly and unrealistic.

  • Miss Lana.5276Miss Lana.5276 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    I really don't see why people who don't need templates, never used templates and never thought about using even completely free of charge (superior) templates, feel the need to keep stating over and over how this new system from Anet is fine for them.
    Of course it is. You don't need templates, so any form of them no matter how bad or expensive is fine for you. We get it.
    It's just pretty unclear what that contributes to the discussion about the problems at hand for those who do require templates to properly play the game the way they play it.

    For those who actually made use of and need extensive Template functionality to enjoy the game, these Templates are not fit for purpose.
    Even if they were completely free, they would still be way too limited and clunky in their functionality to be an actual convenience.

    Don't get me wrong, features like the build sharing via chat etc. are amazing. But all those great features like that which they are adding in the patch will be useless for hardcore players, if you then can't save all those builds into a robust and extensive Template feature like Arc had.

    And no, we don't need to wait until the patch is out to make that assessment. They have shown their functionality on stream and we do know they don't fit our needs from that, unless they made some significant amount of changes in that month until release, which, considering they have been in development for 2 years to get to that point is pretty unlikely.
    Plus it's generally a good idea to try to give constructive feedback before something gets released, especially if it's something that's going to be charged for, as that makes post launch changes fairly unlikely once money has exchanged hands.

    The only thing we don't know for sure yet is how hard they are going to monetise this system in terms of pricing, just to get it to a point where it's half way useable, but from their preliminary ideas mentioned on stream it will be hundreds of Euros total, just to make one character of each profession playable in high demand content, or various different pieces of content.

    That's just not feasible or reasonable.

    We also don't need to save inventory space with Gear templates. We already bought bag slots with invisible bags for that, we already have invested into legendary gear for that.
    If I have two builds, using the exact same Trinkets and Weapons, and simply just need to change out some stats or runes on my Legendary armor between the two builds (for ex. full Berseker DPS DH to Power Quickbrand with some Diviners, or some Marauder with Firework Runes for Open World etc.), I will be expected to buy an entire Gear Template slot, even though it's going to save me literally 0 inventory slots, or at best 1 for the stack of different Runes, for a premium "bank tab level" price, just because there are x potential slots of inventory saved in that in theory, which doesn't apply to me.
    How is charging possibly nearly 10€ to save one inventory slot, per character, per build, okay in any way?

    The only alternative is swapping all those Legendary pieces by hand every time, which is not only a pain to do and makes everybody in a Raid or Fractal etc. wait for you, it also makes me question what the point of the Template feature then is in the first place, if we are still going to have to do most by hand anyway? And further, why to ever bother with Legendary gear, when all it does is make swapping by hand more of an inconvenience compared to Ascended sets.
    On top of that, of course, with only 6 maximum slots, even with buying all of them, it won't be nearly enough to save all the gear combinations between multiple different Raid builds, the stat difference of those same builds in Fractals considering the free stats gained there, as well as WvW and Open World builds.

    TL;DR:
    We get it, for those of you who don't need templates and never made use of them in the past, this coming system will be fine, and some of the free additions like build sharing via chat will indeed be a cool feature for everybody.
    But for those of us who actually need templates, those who the feature is actually targeted at, it's not fit for purpose.
    That is completely besides taking any cost even into account, which then just adds salt to the wound, making it even more prohibitive on top.

    //
    As an additional note, it's frankly pretty tiring, as well as diminishing to the discussion, to constantly have the arguments and points of those reasonably criticising this feature and it's downfalls misrepresented as simply entitlement about wanting everything for free etc.. Just because you are ignorant on the topic of templates and the gameplay demands of hardcore players, doesn't make the complains unreasonable, and just because you personally won't be negatively affected by this system is no cause for arrogance.
    You are doing no one favour with that, be it yourself, hardcore players, or Anet and the health of the game for that matter.

    Extremely well stated.

    Arc's build templates worked well with legendary armor, and gave me a reason to actually go for it. It utilised and even enhanced the reason why I wanted to get the legendary armor. The system that they're implementing just hamstrings legendary gear completely, and makes me want my time and gold back. Why bother finishing my last armor set when the official bt system won't enhance it's utility? Why do that when I can save money just by making more ascended sets? It makes me feel like my time and resources were absolutely wasted, as the stat swapping was the only reason for me to get them.

    The point is devs put the legendary functionality into the game. Their official bt should enhance the usefulness of legendaries and not hamstring it.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

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