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Why is one of the worst specs in the game getting nerfed?


Argamir.3651

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From a WvW/PvP viewpoint.Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game.

This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead.

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@Argamir.3651 said:From a WvW/PvP viewpoint.Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game.

This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead.

Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy:

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@Argamir.3651 said:From a WvW/PvP viewpoint.Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game.

This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead.

Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy:

Off topic, but... How do you think Holo will be effected by today's patch?

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@"mrauls.6519" said:

@Argamir.3651 said:From a WvW/PvP viewpoint.Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game.

This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead.

Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy:

Off topic, but... How do you think Holo will be effected by today's patch?

Nerf to wood league Holo Shockwave spammers, no real change to plat+

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@Argamir.3651 said:From a WvW/PvP viewpoint.Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game.

This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead.

Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy:

Off topic, but... How do you think Holo will be effected by today's patch?

Nerf to wood league Holo Shockwave spammers, no real change to plat+

Pretty much. Incidental Holo Shockwave hits are mostly gone, but decent players won't really notice the change.

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I think all they have to do is include +50% Vuln duration with Steel Packed and it'll be fine

At higher stacks this is a buff. 37.5% damage from max Vuln instead of 25. Hey, maybe a reason to run double Goggles. Lul.

Also noticed that it might be a good change in favor of Condi. It's a bonus to Vuln and not just flat physical damage. YO IS HYBRID GRENADE KIT BECOMING A THING NOW?

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@XenoSpyro.1780At higher stacks, this is a buff, but it is 37.5% damage from max vuln instead of 25 35%. Only fair to acknowledge how it was instead of comparing it to base Vuln.

I like what you pointed out about the grenade kit/boost to Condi. Grenades are pretty much required to maintain Vuln stacks yourself since they give so many more explosions than bombs.

Wasn't hybrid grenade kit already a thing though? It's a staple of hybrid, power, and condition builds, for scrapper, for holo, and for core.

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@Vegeta.2563 said:Grenades need like a 250% damage increase. Seriously.

A rough calculation verifies the shortcoming.

Granade barrage hits 6 times with a 0.6 power coefficient. With Rifle (attack power ~1100), 3k attack and a 2k armor (1k toughness) target, if all grenades hit, that's a 6k dmg in a duel against a glass-canon without damage reduction.And those grenades get red circles (only barrage). Plus low chances that all hit, individual crits, all projectiles...

Grenade-1 hits for 117+33% power. Hammer-1 hits for 355+0.88 power (3rd strike 480+1.2*power).So, whacking someone with a hammer does more damage than hitting him with 3 grenades.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:hitting someone with 3 grenades.The explosion is a whole other matter though.

They always do explode in-game. I wasn't talking about throwing 3 fist-sized stones at someone...Though, the dealt damage feels comparable. ;)

Oh, by the way:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Rock_(stolen_skill)"throw rock" deals 279+105% * attack damage.That's triple the damage of a grenade explosion.

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@Dediggefedde.4961 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:hitting someone with 3 grenades.The explosion is a whole other matter though.

They always do explode in-game. I wasn't talking about throwing 3 fist-sized stones at someone...Though, the dealt damage feels comparable. ;)

Oh, by the way:
)"throw rock" deals 279+105% * attack damage.That's triple the damage of a grenade explosion.

Bringing rocks to a gun fight = valid in GW2 logic

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The lower grenade damage comes from balancing distances. Ranged DPS should be lower than melee DPS, so you'll see bomb kit and other melee options do more damage than grenades.

That said, I hate that you have to take a trait to make them work. Without that speed buff, they're annoying to use in PVE and nigh useless in PVP.

I dont think the ranger got the memo.

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All engi builds excell at mid to close-range. There are SD and quickness-mortar variants, but even SD can be easily evaded due to projectile speed and appearance, when the source is far enough away. So, even those builds get advantages when fighting mid-/close-range.

There are other classes/builds like mesmer/ranger/deadeyes with heavy ranged damage (necro, if 900 dist counts).

So, think of grenade barrage. Slow-flying projectiles, often with particle effects (hope/predator) and 6 red circles and a big throwing animation. 25s CD and 6 times retaliation backfire (up to 30 times against groups). Uncontrollable target-spread, individual critchance, reflectable projectiles. Source and target are glass canons.In the low probability case that all hit the target face-tanks at 6k damage.

So, I still believe it's pretty underwhelming in PvP/WvW.

There was a suggestion some time ago that I still think of highly: remove direct damage from grenades, give 2 burning and F bleeding (or also burning) and make it a ranged condi-weapon. remove conditions from bomb kit and make it a power-aligned kit.

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