I want to keep using Arc Build Templates... :/ - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I want to keep using Arc Build Templates... :/

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  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Schwarzwald.9078 said:

    That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.

    Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

    Who said build templates used all their resources?

    Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

    If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

    As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @blambidy.3216 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Schwarzwald.9078 said:

    That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.

    Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

    Who said build templates used all their resources?

    Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

    If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

    As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

    Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    You're assuming all the underlying code to implement this on Arenanet's end doesn't require deltaconnected to completely recode their template system.

    Also if you use arcdps' templates and you delete your gear don't contact support.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @blambidy.3216 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Schwarzwald.9078 said:

    That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.

    Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

    Who said build templates used all their resources?

    Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

    If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

    As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

    Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

    (If) everything was unlimited besides storage packs. I would’ve happy paid up front 10-15$ then occasionally bought the storage equipment on the side from gemstore. The worst part is your literally paying for tab slots that switches skills and traits since your only given 3 per character. And 6 is the limit. So what would’ve been better? Few million people paying 10-15$ for this feature. Or people who have the choice of not paying at all?

    The point is “free” is it truly free? No it’s not. If Anet said everything in season 5 is free then it’s clearly not free and limited. I would’ve been more happy with an expac and waited for more content and build templates included then these build templates that will cost more then the actual cost of the game now.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

    It's not like i will buy them anyway... not at the prices they suggested in the stream. Those were asolutely ridiculous when added up.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @blambidy.3216 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @blambidy.3216 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Schwarzwald.9078 said:

    That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.

    Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

    Who said build templates used all their resources?

    Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

    If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

    As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

    Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

    (If) everything was unlimited besides storage packs. I would’ve happy paid up front 10-15$ then occasionally bought the storage equipment on the side from gemstore. The worst part is your literally paying for tab slots that switches skills and traits since your only given 3 per character. And 6 is the limit. So what would’ve been better? Few million people paying 10-15$ for this feature. Or people who have the choice of not paying at all?

    Since we don't know the price point yet, speculation is just that; however, the assumption is that these template tabs might be priced like storage tabs. If so, people would still be able to obtain them using gold -> gem conversion, so the cost may not be so bad as some are making it out to be.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @blambidy.3216 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @blambidy.3216 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Schwarzwald.9078 said:

    That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.

    Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

    Who said build templates used all their resources?

    Did arenanet not say there are 4 teams now? 3 teams on the season and 1 team to randomly give us a surprise?

    If it took arenanet to use all resources on build templates then arenanet is in a bigger hole then what people expect.

    As far as them not making cash for it. The better solution would’ve been give the build tabs for free then everyone would’ve gave more into gem store for the right decision. But since veterans do not like the solution of how it’s used, they aren’t getting any money from veterans.

    Ok, "all" was a bit much, but it still stands that resources to make templates would be wasted if Anet doesn't turn some profit from the effort and allows a free version to persist. Who would buy them?

    (If) everything was unlimited besides storage packs. I would’ve happy paid up front 10-15$ then occasionally bought the storage equipment on the side from gemstore. The worst part is your literally paying for tab slots that switches skills and traits since your only given 3 per character. And 6 is the limit. So what would’ve been better? Few million people paying 10-15$ for this feature. Or people who have the choice of not paying at all?

    Since we don't know the price point yet, speculation is just that; however, the assumption is that these template tabs might be priced like storage tabs. If so, people would still be able to obtain them using gold -> gem conversion, so the cost may not be so bad as some are making it out to be.

    400 gems per build tab is pretty cost per toon.

    I would say I’d have to buy for 3 classes.

    Mesmer, thief, guardian.

    Mesmer i’d need 2 extra slots.

    Thief I’d need 3 extra.

    Guardian i’d need 2 extra.

    2800 gems, That’s 40$. Since gems can’t be bought in 400 means, I have to buy 3200 instead.

    The game itself is only worth 30 dollars now (not including living world seasons)
    Including living world seasons 2-4 60$? (Don’t know how many gems it cost per season)

    So build templates cost me more than half the amount of the whole game for a feature that has 0 content?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Since we don't know the price point yet, speculation is just that; however, the assumption is that these template tabs might be priced like storage tabs. If so, people would still be able to obtain them using gold -> gem conversion, so the cost may not be so bad as some are making it out to be.

    Well, 15k gold/500 euro i might need is a low estimate and as such is indeed not so bad as some worse possibilities, but it still looks extremely bad.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    I'm sure Delta will continue to provide support for his Build templates and distribute to his inner circle of special friends just like his gear checker.

    I'm sure that Anet would consider the add-on void upon release of their own template system which would then make using it a bannable offense, just like any other unauthorized add-on.

    And yet using the Gear Check version of Arc that Delta passes out to his pals has gotten zero people banned.

    didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @flog.3485 said:
    And somehow you don’t think that the introduction of a new free big update doesn’t need a new kind of revenue stream?

    Why would it need a new revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it? Are you suggesting they are so poor they need to heavily monetize stuff like the templates now just to keep afloat? If so, that doesn't bode well for th future, you know.

    Your argument doesn’t make any sense to me. As far as I know mounts couldn’t have funded season 3, HoT sales and glider skins did however, and if you remember that time, it took them quite some to actually do it because it took them already quite some time both to release the expansion and the necessary February update to address the major complaints.

    Ever since mounts, we have moved on from this quite critical situation to allow themselves to both release PoF and season 4 at a much faster pace with more content because they could benefit from mount skins (mostly) that recoups the investment going from season 3 into PoF as well as it funds the development of season 4.

    Now what is the situation: they said they wanted to offer something different than all all previous seasons with this saga with expansion feature updates dropped within a living story that relies on a model different than the previous seasons.

    Based on all these elements, yes I think it is fair to say that they kinda need a new revenue stream.

    Ps: please notice that it has nothing to do with keeping the game afloat. It is about funding big projects that can be released in a timely fashion because let’s be real here, they also need to make some big progress on the alliance and the Swiss tournament style systems.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How many bag slots do you have on each character? How ma y bank tabs or additional crafting licences do you have?

  • Probably worth considering it's not the first time they've charged for convenience features that don't add anything substantial to the game... e.g. resource nodes in home instance (most of which you can get somewhere else), home teleport (you could always just waypoint), infinite salvage tools (you could buy more), infinite picks/axes/sickles (again, buy more)... arguably bank/storage slots qualify too.

    But, like the other convenience features, it seems fair enough if you can do the same thing for free in a less convenient way... such as pasting template codes from the clipboard into the game, perhaps (assuming that's not required for templates to be shareable anyway?). Someone has to generate the template codes for you, but I'm sure it'll happen somewhere.

  • Guildwars.4893Guildwars.4893 Member ✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    I have only one question for anet with this build template ! Currently arcdps is leggit by anet so my biggest question is : It will be again legal after the update of build template ? My point of view is : you want win money (it's normal your need tu survive ) BUT You can't come back on your choice because you want win more money ! If you wish stop arcdps and their build template create your own arcdps for player who used it to see the dps in Raid or fractal .... and will must be free and have the same functionalities ! During this time you can't come back on your decision to delete arcdps because you want more profit. It would be just ashamed and frowned upon by the community.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Have you not read the other threads on this? This has been covered.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Guildwars.4893Guildwars.4893 Member ✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    oh have you the thread plz ? (no because there is no informations in fr because the communication doesn"t exist)

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Piece of cake, just contact NCSoft with a buy offer for ANet.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    A better analogy:

    Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its anets game, not the maker of arcdps, since they want their own templates, then arcdps has to go. It couldnt be simpler.

  • SpyderArachnid.5619SpyderArachnid.5619 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    A better analogy:

    Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

    Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

    So it's more like, those kids have turned the area into their own personal skate park for awhile now, and now the owner is going to build their own skate park there instead and they have to leave, but if they want to continue skating there, they have to pay admission now. The owner basically saw the kids were having fun with their own skate park, and decided that they shouldn't be allowed to do that without paying money, so they put a stop to it and built their own skate park that you have to pay to use.

    When we let things convey unto us, that is true artistic expression. But when we try to convey ourselves onto things, that is delusion.

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

    Anyone playing both pve and WvW
    Pve has different gear for power, condi, heal and support (with most classes being able to have useful builds in at least 3 of those roles). WvW, besides the condi/power split, uses different gear/builds for roaming and zerging. Also, the wvw gear is in general different than for pve, because in WvW you would want at least a bit of defensive stats regardless of your roles. And all that is without getting into minmaxing for different specific environments.
    Getting capped on gear templates and still needing more is easy.

    Seems like you selectively left out the part at the end where I said it shouldn't be limited, nice one dude!

    And a general reminder: you are not limited to just 6 trait/utility builds, only to 6 gear setups, and it also functions as gear storage. I play WvW (roaming and blobbing), PvE (raids and open world) and PvP (which doesn't have gear, so won't take up a gear slot). I play multiple different classes and have several gear sets per character, however I still do not have more than 6 gear sets on more than ONE single character. It is not 6 gear templates per account, it is per character.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

    Anyone playing both pve and WvW
    Pve has different gear for power, condi, heal and support (with most classes being able to have useful builds in at least 3 of those roles). WvW, besides the condi/power split, uses different gear/builds for roaming and zerging. Also, the wvw gear is in general different than for pve, because in WvW you would want at least a bit of defensive stats regardless of your roles. And all that is without getting into minmaxing for different specific environments.
    Getting capped on gear templates and still needing more is easy.

    Seems like you selectively left out the part at the end where I said it shouldn't be limited, nice one dude!

    And a general reminder: you are not limited to just 6 trait/utility builds, only to 6 gear setups, and it also functions as gear storage. I play WvW (roaming and blobbing), PvE (raids and open world) and PvP (which doesn't have gear, so won't take up a gear slot). I play multiple different classes and have several gear sets per character, however I still do not have more than 6 gear sets on more than ONE single character. It is not 6 gear templates per account, it is per character.

    You may not have more than 6 gear sets on any single character, but i bet you mix and match between those sets. Each of those combinations in the new system is a whole new set. Care to check how many do you have in this case?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    A better analogy:

    Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

    Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

    So it's more like, those kids have turned the area into their own personal skate park for awhile now, and now the owner is going to build their own skate park there instead and they have to leave, but if they want to continue skating there, they have to pay admission now. The owner basically saw the kids were having fun with their own skate park, and decided that they shouldn't be allowed to do that without paying money, so they put a stop to it and built their own skate park that you have to pay to use.

    8> @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    A better analogy:

    Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

    Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

    So it's more like, those kids have turned the area into their own personal skate park for awhile now, and now the owner is going to build their own skate park there instead and they have to leave, but if they want to continue skating there, they have to pay admission now. The owner basically saw the kids were having fun with their own skate park, and decided that they shouldn't be allowed to do that without paying money, so they put a stop to it and built their own skate park that you have to pay to use.

    That's life and customer demand. Obviously demand meant the majority did not want to use arcdps.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    That's life and customer demand. Obviously demand meant the majority did not want to use arcdps.

    Because they did not want or need templates in general?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels on our own for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    It is, but ok. Here's a more genre-specific, but identical analogy:

    Busted hackers:
    "Please let me keep the cheats I installed"

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    A better analogy:

    Someone indicates that they are intending to open an amusement park on their property. A neighborhood kid asks if he can put up some free temporary skate trick ramps and such in a corner of the property so that some kids he knows can play around while waiting for the official park. The owner of the property says, 'sure, you can mess around until the officieal opening,' but only until then. The property owner keeps to their agreement to allow the kids to use their property for free for the entire time they worked on their official park.

    Not the best analogy, since there's an obvious quality improvement from a skate ramp to an amusement park (plus they are very different), yet one of the recurrent complaints about Arenanet's implementation is that it is substantially less capable than the current free offering, even if one were to buy everything offered. You might at least hope that it's a little more stable, but it's not like there haven't been some fairly major bugs and oversights in official releases lately.

  • Saniyah.1984Saniyah.1984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @cgMatt.5162 said:
    It's unfortunate but people are naturally going to be upset with this because it was previously a free feature in unlimited quantities (and right now, looks like a better implementation than the planned monetized version). Even more so upsetting because deltaconnected will no longer be able to update arcdps build templates once this comes out.

    It look like you have to used 2 equipent tabs for legendary thingies even tho 1 legendary could have any stat/rune you have to spend two tabs for two bulds
    If they added stats to the build templates you would not have added the same equipments in more tabs, It felt like they added artificial limits that are more than just number of tabs. :(
    The new version seems worse and costed more. Could you named any product you bought that you dont mind paying for to have downgraded?

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Your proposal does not make any business sense for Anet.

    Keeping customers happy is perfectly sensible business strategy :P

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

    According to what was said in the live stream, they've been working on templates for around 2 years. Arc has already said that to get "approved" for use, that it would have to go once the official templates were in place. That was the deal.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    Except ArcDPS has had build templates way before Anet has even considered making build templates. It wasn't until Anet finally decided to make build templates that they told ArcDPS they can't have them anymore, after ArcDPS has already been doing build templates for years before Anet even considered doing it.

    According to what was said in the live stream, they've been working on templates for around 2 years.

    Yes, they started working on them some time after Delta has already released first version of his templates module.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vyncius.6105 said:

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Why won't arc build work anymore?

    Delta (arc creator) had agreenment with anet that he will not update his templates, when anet release theirs

    Good to hear! Keep stuff in house. DPS meters next???

  • @Trise.2865 said:

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels on our own for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    It is, but ok. Here's a more genre-specific, but identical analogy:

    Busted hackers:
    "Please let me keep the cheats I installed"

    Again, terrible analogy. There was no cheating/hacking involved. It used the API provided by Anet. No cheats, no hacks. It was an addon, which Anet allows.

    You're trying to make ArcDPS sound like an illegal third-party program that cheaters/hackers use. Which it wasn't at all. There was no cheating, no hacking, no stealing, etc. They used the addon API to make a feature that Anet didn't have. Anet decided they wanted to profit from said feature and make it themselves, so they shut down ArcDPS so people would have to use Anet's feature instead of ArcDPS', making people pay for what they already had for free.

    Stop trying to act like it was cheating/hacking/stealing. It was a perfectly legal addon that anyone was allowed to use.

    When we let things convey unto us, that is true artistic expression. But when we try to convey ourselves onto things, that is delusion.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:

    @SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Person caught stealing cable angry about having to pay for cable:
    "Please let me continue stealing cable instead of paying for it."

    This is no where near the same thing. This is a horrible analogy.

    Build Templates didn't even exist in GW2. You can't "steal" something that never existed.

    A better analogy would be, there was no such thing as cable in existence. So we found a way to watch multiple channels on our own for free. Then the birth of cable appears, and makes it illegal to use any other method besides theirs, and you have to pay for it now.

    It is, but ok. Here's a more genre-specific, but identical analogy:

    Busted hackers:
    "Please let me keep the cheats I installed"

    To consider arc a cheat you gotta be naive and have a clear lack of understanding of what arc did.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭

    I would rather keep ArcDPS - 6 gear slots wont be enough for my main.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

    No, and no one except for the creator was ever banned for using BDGM, which openly defied ArenaNet by including the illegal features.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Schwarzwald.9078 said:

    That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.

    Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

    Now i don't want to be that guy but i guess i have to.

    Anet had build templates in GW1 and those were not monitized, could be shared and even uploaded/downloaded to a folder on your pc.
    Why should this new system be monitized (specifically the trait system) ?
    Most rational people don't mind them taking the Armor Templates and monitizing that because it takes those items out of personal inventory which is a godsend. But traits ? That's a bit of a special move especially given that it doesn't unlock anything or do anything beyond the previous functionality of a system that's now over 10 years old.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Schwarzwald.9078 said:

    That's why the solution is a simple clarification from ArenaNet allowing people to continue to keep using ArcDPS build templates.

    Which makes absolutely no business sense. "Here's something you'll likely want and it's going to cost you but hey, it's ok to keep using the free thingy and not pay us so that we've wasted all of our resources in making this thing with no profit to show for it."

    Now i don't want to be that guy but i guess i have to.

    Anet had build templates in GW1 and those were not monitized, could be shared and even uploaded/downloaded to a folder on your pc.
    Why should this new system be monitized (specifically the trait system) ?
    Most rational people don't mind them taking the Armor Templates and monitizing that because it takes those items out of personal inventory which is a godsend. But traits ? That's a bit of a special move especially given that it doesn't unlock anything or do anything beyond the previous functionality of a system that's now over 10 years old.

    1. Gw1 was a different game with different expenses.
    2. Its not 'monetised', it's a non essential feature that was desired that anet built and has offered in the gem shop. When you see a thing in a shop in rl you do not complain if it is monetised, what you do is decide if it is worth the cost to you.
    3. You can get it for free by trading gold for gems.

    All this complaining is self entitled nonsense, you play for free, it's a convenience item, buy it or don't. Honestly, by this logic we would only be happy if anet sold stuff in the gem shop that we don't want.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    2. Its not 'monetised', it's a non essential feature that was desired that anet built and has offered in the gem shop. When you see a thing in a shop in rl you do not complain if it is monetised, what you do is decide if it is worth the cost to you.

    And what exactly would constitute an "essential feature" according to you? Because as i see it, with this way of thinking you can explain away putting in gemshop practically anything.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @yoni.7015 said:
    Why open another thread? There is an existing one.

    Probably because people want to actually be heard.

    That’s definitely part of it, but also yoni you’re correct there are multiple topics on build templates but this is more about arc build templates and how it will be affected.

    If there was a way to keep arc builds I wouldn’t have any issues.

    You do understand from a business standpoint how much this does not make any sense. There would not be any issues for you but there would be issues for anet its kind of a half and half exchange here

    Issue for you is that you wont get to keep arc templates
    Issue for anet is they have to deal with all the unhappy customers who dont like how they are making the system.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MoonT.6845 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

    Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

    I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

    If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
    Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

    I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Healix.5819 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

    No, and no one except for the creator was ever banned for using BDGM, which openly defied ArenaNet by including the illegal features.

    So wha was the big ban wave that hit people wide and far across open world and pvp?
    IT was some 3rd party thing that allowed people to look at other peoples traits etc

    Because you cant sit here and tell me there was not a ban wave... i 100% remember that and it was certainly more than 1 person.

    If you can just clarify this for me. Thanks

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @MoonT.6845 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

    Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

    I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

    If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
    Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

    I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

    I can once again list off some builds, taking my guardian as example.

    DH Power DPS (Raids/Fractals), which consists of Berserker gear with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    FB condition DPS (Raids), which is a Viper/Sinister/Grieving mix with Balthazar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Condition Quickbrand (Raids), which is full Viper with Firebrand Runes, mostly shares build with FB condition DPS, but a separate build template as now in Arc would still be handy.
    Power Quickbrand (Fractals), which is a Scholar/Diviner mix with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Healbrand (Raids), which is full Harrier with Monk Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Healbrand (Fractals), which is a Harrier/Magi mix with Monk Runes, shares build template with the Raids version for the most part.
    different versions for Virtues and Radiance for Healbrand, which wouldn't be too much trouble to select by hand without Templates, but nice to have
    Tank Healbrand (Raids), which is full Minstrel with Monk Runes, shares Build Template with Healbrand for the most part.
    Open World FB (OW), which is a Marauder/Berserker/Diviner mix with Firework Runes, with multiple other versions (ie Templates) depending on what I want to play, , requires multiple separate Build Templates.
    Zerg FB (WvW), which could share a Gear Template with Tank Healbrand, but requires a different build Template.
    Roaming FB (WvW), of those I have multiple Templates depending on what I feel like playing/trying out/to iterate on as build.
    Core Guard (PvP/WvW), a Valkyrie/Berserker Mix, requires separate Build Template.
    Sup Bunker FB (PvP), separate build Template for PvP
    Hybrid FB (PvP), seperate build Template for PvP

    That's just a glimpse of my templates for one character on what I deem most essential (generally see play every week at multiple points), with there being plenty more I could awkwardly mix and match together to consolidate Templates or which I play more rarely, but just doing one Shift+Click in arc and loading them on demand obviously is far superior.
    And still it's too many to bring into Anet's templates, even if I had the cash to spare to unlock all these slots on all my characters that I need for smooth and enjoyable playing.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @MoonT.6845 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

    Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

    I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

    If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
    Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

    I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

    I can once again list off some builds, taking my guardian as example.

    DH Power DPS (Raids/Fractals), which consists of Berserker gear with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    FB condition DPS (Raids), which is a Viper/Sinister/Grieving mix with Balthazar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Condition Quickbrand (Raids), which is full Viper with Firebrand Runes, mostly shares build with FB condition DPS, but a separate build template as now in Arc would still be handy.
    Power Quickbrand (Fractals), which is a Scholar/Diviner mix with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Healbrand (Raids), which is full Harrier with Monk Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Healbrand (Fractals), which is a Harrier/Magi mix with Monk Runes, shares build template with the Raids version for the most part.
    different versions for Virtues and Radiance for Healbrand, which wouldn't be too much trouble to select by hand without Templates, but nice to have
    Tank Healbrand (Raids), which is full Minstrel with Monk Runes, shares Build Template with Healbrand for the most part.
    Open World FB (OW), which is a Marauder/Berserker/Diviner mix with Firework Runes, with multiple other versions (ie Templates) depending on what I want to play, , requires multiple separate Build Templates.
    Zerg FB (WvW), which could share a Gear Template with Tank Healbrand, but requires a different build Template.
    Roaming FB (WvW), of those I have multiple Templates depending on what I feel like playing/trying out/to iterate on as build.
    Core Guard (PvP/WvW), a Valkyrie/Berserker Mix, requires separate Build Template.
    Sup Bunker FB (PvP), separate build Template for PvP
    Hybrid FB (PvP), seperate build Template for PvP

    That's just a glimpse of my templates for one character on what I deem most essential (generally see play every week at multiple points), with there being plenty more I could awkwardly mix and match together to consolidate Templates or which I play more rarely, but just doing one Shift+Click in arc and loading them on demand obviously is far superior.
    And still it's too many to bring into Anet's templates, even if I had the cash to spare to unlock all these slots on all my characters that I need for smooth and enjoyable playing.

    I see well i would like to ask you a few more questions if you don't mind. I'll start with just these because they're probably the most relevant that would lead to any others.

    Question 1
    For the sake of humoring me what would your alternative work around had been to carry this many builds for your character, What would you have done as a work around if arc templates would have never been allowed in the first place?

    Question 2
    Did you know going into the use of arc templates before hand that arc templates were a temporary and not a permanent solution?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @MoonT.6845 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:

    Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??

    Pretty much everybody that plays WvW

    I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.

    If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
    Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.

    I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.

    I can once again list off some builds, taking my guardian as example.

    DH Power DPS (Raids/Fractals), which consists of Berserker gear with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    FB condition DPS (Raids), which is a Viper/Sinister/Grieving mix with Balthazar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Condition Quickbrand (Raids), which is full Viper with Firebrand Runes, mostly shares build with FB condition DPS, but a separate build template as now in Arc would still be handy.
    Power Quickbrand (Fractals), which is a Scholar/Diviner mix with Scholar Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Healbrand (Raids), which is full Harrier with Monk Runes, requires separate Build Template.
    Healbrand (Fractals), which is a Harrier/Magi mix with Monk Runes, shares build template with the Raids version for the most part.
    different versions for Virtues and Radiance for Healbrand, which wouldn't be too much trouble to select by hand without Templates, but nice to have
    Tank Healbrand (Raids), which is full Minstrel with Monk Runes, shares Build Template with Healbrand for the most part.
    Open World FB (OW), which is a Marauder/Berserker/Diviner mix with Firework Runes, with multiple other versions (ie Templates) depending on what I want to play, , requires multiple separate Build Templates.
    Zerg FB (WvW), which could share a Gear Template with Tank Healbrand, but requires a different build Template.
    Roaming FB (WvW), of those I have multiple Templates depending on what I feel like playing/trying out/to iterate on as build.
    Core Guard (PvP/WvW), a Valkyrie/Berserker Mix, requires separate Build Template.
    Sup Bunker FB (PvP), separate build Template for PvP
    Hybrid FB (PvP), seperate build Template for PvP

    That's just a glimpse of my templates for one character on what I deem most essential (generally see play every week at multiple points), with there being plenty more I could awkwardly mix and match together to consolidate Templates or which I play more rarely, but just doing one Shift+Click in arc and loading them on demand obviously is far superior.
    And still it's too many to bring into Anet's templates, even if I had the cash to spare to unlock all these slots on all my characters that I need for smooth and enjoyable playing.

    I see well i would like to ask you a few more questions if you don't mind. I'll start with just these because they're probably the most relevant that would lead to any others.

    Question 1
    For the sake of humoring me what would your alternative work around had been to carry this many builds for your character, What would you have done as a work around if arc templates would have never been allowed in the first place?

    There was no alternative. I started using Arc over 2 years ago in tandem with getting into Raiding or rather shortly after, as I noticed very quickly that the constant swapping without Arc templates just wasn't feasible or fun, especially as someone who started covering many different roles from boss to boss.

    Is suppose the "alternative" for me would have been not playing or not getting into that type of content due to getting too annoyed by that aspect of it.

    Question 2
    Did you know going into the use of arc templates before hand that arc templates were a temporary and not a permanent solution?

    No, I started using Arc long before official templates were announced, with the sentiment in the community being that they would likely never come.
    Unfortunately we were wrong.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Issue for you is that you wont get to keep arc templates
    Issue for anet is they have to deal with all the unhappy customers who dont like how they are making the system.

    Notice, how the second issue doesn't disappear with arc templates gone. Quite the opposite.
    First issue however does disappear if Arc remains a solution.

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Healix.5819 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    didnt that get like hundreds of people banned for like half a year????!?!?!??! :astonished:

    No, and no one except for the creator was ever banned for using BDGM, which openly defied ArenaNet by including the illegal features.

    So wha was the big ban wave that hit people wide and far across open world and pvp?
    IT was some 3rd party thing that allowed people to look at other peoples traits etc

    It had nothing to do with Arc. They were looking at game hacks (like speed hacks, etc). One of the programs that was mentioned was Cheat Engine, iirc. Arc was not among the programs they were looking for, as at that point it was completely allowed.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    Is there an official word with Anet that ARC is 100% supported and fine? I know it's always been unofficially fine but they've never gone out and said anything.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    So wha was the big ban wave that hit people wide and far across open world and pvp?

    The last ban wave targeted specific cheat programs (which they were crazy enough to publicly post) and any program they couldn't access / generate a signature for, which only guaranteed false bans. The best part is, they believed they couldn't be wrong and refused to even verify these bans, only to quietly admit that they were at fault months later, which I believe was thanks to a GDPR request.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Despond.2174 said:
    Is there an official word with Anet that ARC is 100% supported and fine? I know it's always been unofficially fine but they've never gone out and said anything.

    Supported? No, it's not Anet's addon so why should they support it? Allowed? Yes, there have been dev statements to that end. Specifically, for the last 2 years, Arc developer has been continuously working in tandem with Anet representatives to make sure his addon remains compliant with their requirements.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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