We've heard it all before

Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

Aren't all the complains about monetisation and not about how they work?

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

That's not what the majority of the complaints are about. They're generally about the cost of build templates.

^^this. Everyone (or at least 99%) says that templates are great and they gonna use them for sure. Complains are about:-this took them over 7 years to create thing that existed already in gw1 for ages-they want to make money literally out of everything nowadays-they are adding templates only to PvE and WvW, PvP gets nothing once again.

@Widmo.3186 said:^^this. Everyone (or at least 99%) says that templates are great and they gonna use them for sure. Complains are about:-this took them over 7 years to create thing that existed already in gw1 for ages-they want to make money literally out of everything nowadays-they are adding templates only to PvE and WvW, PvP gets nothing once again.

PvP will get build templates when they work the problems out. It is set up different than WvW and PvE, so it is a different beast to handle.

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:^^this. Everyone (or at least 99%) says that templates are great and they gonna use them for sure. Complains are about:-this took them over 7 years to create thing that existed already in gw1 for ages-they want to make money literally out of everything nowadays-they are adding templates only to PvE and WvW, PvP gets nothing once again.

Thats what I said. PvP gets n o t h i n g once again. We all know this "will get sth once problems gonna be worked out".

I don't think anyone has said it will ruin the game.You are blowing it out of proportion by saying we are blowing it out of proportion, no?

@Widmo.3186 said:^^this. Everyone (or at least 99%)lost credibility in your first line of text, very well then.

@Widmo.3186 said:^^this. Everyone (or at least 99%) says that templates are great and they gonna use them for sure. Complains are about:-this took them over 7 years to create thing that existed already in gw1 for ages-they want to make money literally out of everything nowadays-they are adding templates only to PvE and WvW, PvP gets nothing once again.

Currently every player has 1 build template for PvE, WvW and PvP. If you take your Guardian from Lion's Arch, to Eternal Battlegrounds, to the PvP lobby, your have 3 separate trait builds and utility bars, which are saved based on whatever you slotted in while in that zone. That is how it works currently.

After this patch, everyone will have 3 build templates per character for free, and on launch, will automatically be setup with any existing PvE, WvW, and PvP builds.

Do you see it yet?

Before: Every character had a unique build template for PvE, WvW and PvPAfter: Every character has 3 build templates for free, and you choose where to use them.

So after this launches, if you use the same character to play PvE, WvW and PvP, you have literally been given NOTHING, as you need to use 1 template for each game mode. You only benefit if you choose to purchase additional templates, or if you only play that character in 1 or 2 of those game modes, which now gives you the freedom to run a second build in one of them.

And incidentally, build templates have been around for 2 years with arcDPS.

I'm puzzled at all the celebration about a company giving players something free WHEN IT WAS ALREADY AVAILABLE, IN THE GAME, and FREE.

Gear templates, and the ability to store other sets of gear in a tab vs bags is a separate topic, and I think it's a positive addition to the game.But anyone who actually understands what is transpiring here should have no reason to applaud the addition (lol) of build templates.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

Well they did, in many ways. Mounts and gliding trivialized exploration and the overworld, and HoT Introduced levels of powercreep and demanded complexity that we never recovered from.

People will complain, no matter what happens. Also this is 2019, the time for differentiated oppinions is long over. Everything is either the best thing since sliced bread or the end of the world, there's no more room inbetwen the two extremes. Also the internet is full of """"""""""""""""experts""""""""""""""""" who know exactly what would have been the right move and how to run a gaming company.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

Did you even read any of the posts within the thread/threads... seems to me your barking up the wrong tree. The issue is clearly around how ANET finally offer something that players wanted from day 1, but with a that good old monetization ethic.For me that isn't so much the issue more how much it will cost when considering the cost a whole expansion, with maps, traits, weapons, and things like templates... something smells off for sure so I am not surprised there has been a reaction.

Also what people are not considering, is that Build Templates are pretty much free bag space now. Can put set of get in there and wont take space in inventory now. thats Huge

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Also what people are not considering, is that Build Templates are pretty much free bag space now. Can put set of get in there and wont take space in inventory now. thats Huge

Sure...if you needed that feature, for those who have legendary stuff, they did not need that feature at all/

@Neutra.6857 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Also what people are not considering, is that Build Templates are pretty much free bag space now. Can put set of get in there and wont take space in inventory now. thats Huge

Both camps happy then?

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

This is veteran tax.

Now i will not be able to change gear in few seconds with ARC. Ill be limited to 2 or to 6 (if i buy all possible slots).

Also changing stats/runes/sigils/infusions manualy on legendary gear is so tedious and time consuming. Anet added option to change stats at once to all armor or weapons or trinkets, but we still dont have change all infusions or sigils at once.Downtime in raids will go up, because of all that swaping. And this makes me want to quit.

Ive worked so hard to have full legendary. And now its pointless

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Also what people are not considering, is that Build Templates are pretty much free bag space now. Can put set of get in there and wont take space in inventory now. thats Huge

No, build templates are separate from equipment templates. Build templates are just lists of skills and traits; they're purely a UI shorthand. Equipment templates are actually an entire separate set of equipment slots, but set up so the same item can exist in multiple tabs, or something like that.

Not everyone who is complaining about Arenanet's approach on build templates is opposed to what they are doing with equipment templates.

@Offair.2563 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Also what people are not considering, is that Build Templates are pretty much free bag space now. Can put set of get in there and wont take space in inventory now. thats Huge

Nope, since I am losing the features I used to have in arc that the current equipment templates do not do.

@Jethro.9376 said:Aren't all the complains about monetisation and not about how they work?

Nope.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

Oh absolutely, did any of us expect anything different.As I said, I think its not so much it's been monetised more about how much they might well look to charge around this single feature when compared to how much an expansion full of new content/features costs.TBH it wont affect me, but it could be quite a volatile subject once more details come out around the cost structure, which is why they avoided putting any detail to the live event about this expansion like content within the LS.

I don't see any reason to complain about additional features that don't have a negative impact. If you don't like that they are selling them just use your free ones and play without buying more - has worked for 7 years completely without them. So I don't think it is a big problem if they sell some while giving some for free.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

And incidentally, build templates have been around for 2 years with arcDPS.

I'm puzzled at all the celebration about a company giving players something free WHEN IT WAS ALREADY AVAILABLE, IN THE GAME, and FREE.

Except it was not provided ingame and the stipulations where very clear: once official build templates roll in, arc templates (which by the way break ToS and rules for addons, even if currently tolerated) are to be discontinued. Imagine if Arenanet had disagreed to tolerate build temapltes in the first place, we would not be having this discussion.

Also let's not pretend like arc templates did not have issues (which does not diminish the great work deltaconnected has been doing for the last 2 years):

• they were prone to break post patches, just like yesterday just in time for prime time raids in EU on a tuesday
• they had issues with changing gear and required constant double checking if everything was changed correctly
• would occasionally completely break and require new saving (I still can't currently delete one of my Firebrand templates, it simply will not allow me to remove it)
• they do not free up inventory space by adding the gear to the template, as the new system does

I get it, people are upset because they are receiving a QoL feature with some strings attached. Does not change the fact that as per official game release and availability, the vast majority of players did not enjoy build templates which they can customize.

Build templates are a massive QoL feature which is finaly being added to the game. It is absolutely in line with past monetization, is not predatory and not required, can be gained via gold-gem exchange for additional slots. The only valid complaint is from people who have more than the future possible maximum amount of builds, where this new system does pose an issue.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Discussion posts are flooded with threads saying how the future templates (as described) will ruin the game.Didn't we hear the same or similar things when HoT and PoF came out with gliding and mounts?Build templates are something people have been asking for since GW2 rolled out.Please wait until you have used them for a month, let the bugs get worked out, and get used to swapping before posting how bad this new shiny is for the game's future.

straw mannoun1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:And incidentally, build templates have been around for 2 years with arcDPS.Interesting thing, by the way: a throwaway line in the yesterday's stream reveals that they've started working on build templates shortly after delta released his addon.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Currently every player has 1 build template for PvE, WvW and PvP. If you take your Guardian from Lion's Arch, to Eternal Battlegrounds, to the PvP lobby, your have 3 separate trait builds and utility bars, which are saved based on whatever you slotted in while in that zone. That is how it works currently.

After this patch, everyone will have 3 build templates per character for free, and on launch, will automatically be setup with any existing PvE, WvW, and PvP builds.

So after this launches, if you use the same character to play PvE, WvW and PvP, you have literally been given NOTHING, as you need to use 1 template for each game mode. You only benefit if you choose to purchase additional templates, or if you only play that character in 1 or 2 of those game modes, which now gives you the freedom to run a second build in one of them.

Expect, I really think you are wrong here.Every character will indeed get 3 free build templates, that initially are set to the 3 different builds your character already has, you can then go ahead and change this. However, I have haven't seen anything in the official announcement, that would indicate that WvW & sPvP builds are not saved separately anymore - this is essentially a wild speculation people just seem to be assuming is true.

I personally think it's much more likely that in the future each character will still have independently saved PvE, WvW & sPvP builds (even just because changing how that would mean more changes to the game engine) AND have 3 build templates that can be loaded instantly all the time (by hotkeys even).So If you save 3 PvE build template, you can probbaly still:

• manually change your current build to some variation that is a 4th build
• go to WvW / sPvP and get your corresponding build there (you just can't insta load it after any changes or in another game mode)