Engineer changes

I’m seeing a lot of discussions about the engineer changes, but not a lot of them are addressing all of my thoughts, so here they are, including the ones that have already been discussed. First of all, while I’m glad that they lessened the vitality loss from impact savant, I still think it’s increadibly stupid that it even exists. Next, they still haven’t fixed photonic blasting module, leaving my power rifle build for raids still gimped, and holosmith in general pretty undesireable in raids. They added to function gyro, but the real problem there is that function gyro still exists (you all know it’s crap no matter what they do to it). The buff to all the hammer skills was nice, but it wasn’t what we were necessarily lacking in (and I still miss perfectly weighted). He biggest gripe I have though, is the fact that they turned holographic shockwave into more of a holographic pond ripple. It’s main use was (in my opinion) to either disable a large group of enemies, to take pressure off of you/your allies, or in pvp, to bait dodges. This nerf effectively kills both of those uses, which is a shame because it was one of my favorite skills, and an important part of the play style. (Also sidenote, warrior’s barrier eating trait makes me reluctant to ever bring my scrapper into pvp again).

The couple Holo nerfs was well deserved. 600 range AoE CC all around the target was a bitch to deal with, and it made it very easy for them to use it to chain a killer combo, considering their super high kill potential. Also, the nerf to Corona Burst was well needed as well, it hit hard for all of the utility it gave.

I agree with the Impact Savant change, While the hammer skill buffs could make up for the lack of barrier it gave per damage packet, there was still other weapons to consider. The smartest change they could have made to IS is increasing it from 15% to 20% or 25% depending on what testing results yielded.

PBM, yeah I think it really needs to not apply the penalty to the toolbelt skills when overheating, as the trait WANTS you to overheat. The fact they didn't consider this at inception of the overheat mechanic change was a little worrisome.

Function Gyro, I've not had a chance to play yet, but I think it's supposed to have more health now after the change. The fact that it explodes when CC'd is ok, though I worry that it still dies if the Gyro has stab, which would be a big yikes.

@Ghos.1326 said:The couple Holo nerfs was well deserved. 600 range AoE CC all around the target was a kitten to deal with, and it made it very easy for them to use it to chain a killer combo, considering their super high kill potential. Also, the nerf to Corona Burst was well needed as well, it hit hard for all of the utility it gave.

I agree with this,though I think that they’ve gone too far with the reduced range, just looking at the attack animation, it barely even exists. I would be more ok with something like a 450 range, keeping in mind the fact that the wave has a slow travel speed. And yes, the corona bust nerf is fine.

I agree with the Impact Savant change, While the hammer skill buffs could make up for the lack of barrier it gave per damage packet, there was still other weapons to consider. The smartest change they could have made to IS is increasing it from 15% to 20% or 25% depending on what testing results yielded.

Even if they buffed the barrier to 200%, that wouldn’t make me like the skill. There’s so much wrong with how it works (especially now that warriors are apperantly designated scrapper hunters), I don’t think the trait was ever a good idea

PBM, yeah I think it really needs to not apply the penalty to the toolbelt skills when overheating, as the trait WANTS you to overheat. The fact they didn't consider this at inception of the overheat mechanic change was a little worrisome.

They’ve literally changed the profession mechanic to hurt the trait. That’s rough.

Function Gyro, I've not had a chance to play yet, but I think it's supposed to have more health now after the change. The fact that it explodes when CC'd is ok, though I worry that it still dies if the Gyro has stab, which would be a big yikes.

My main issue is that the function gyro is complete kitten, and has been since day one. All it does is literally press f for you (and not even to pay respects). Scrapper deserves a profession mechanic that does something, rather than a profession mechanic that just serves to take up space.

@"DinoStone.2485" said:I’m seeing a lot of discussions about the engineer changes, but not a lot of them are addressing all of my thoughts, so here they are, including the ones that have already been discussed. First of all, while I’m glad that they lessened the vitality loss from impact savant, I still think it’s increadibly stupid that it even exists. Next, they still haven’t fixed photonic blasting module, leaving my power rifle build for raids still kitten, and holosmith in general pretty undesireable in raids. They added to function gyro, but the real problem there is that function gyro still exists (you all know it’s kitten no matter what they do to it). The buff to all the hammer skills was nice, but it wasn’t what we were necessarily lacking in (and I still miss perfectly weighted). He biggest gripe I have though, is the fact that they turned holographic shockwave into more of a holographic pond ripple. It’s main use was (in my opinion) to either disable a large group of enemies, to take pressure off of you/your allies, or in pvp, to bait dodges. This nerf effectively kills both of those uses, which is a shame because it was one of my favorite skills, and an important part of the play style. (Also sidenote, warrior’s barrier eating trait makes me reluctant to ever bring my scrapper into pvp again).

That right that not only made me laugh but it's sadly so true. I don't know how most of the engineer forum and "good engineers" seemed okay and on board with this nerf. It completely changes the uniqueness of Holo. I said before and still do that 400-450 range would have been more appropriate of a nerf. I'm kind of disappointed that more known engineers like Chaith weren't vocal or possibly aware of this issue. Next we can expect them toning down the survivability, time/access to forge, cooldowns..... but we'll still be left with this crap version of forge. Just have to tip my hat to all these engineers that (trying to change my actual thoughts so I don't get banned) celebrated these "Trojan horse" level changes with thunderous applause.

Hey guy! Guy you got all wrong dont you see? Core engi was good, now its garbage. Scrapper was godly when its release now its a piece of scrap. Holo is pretty good right now... so they are starting to make it a trash tier spec.

I miss the days when PvE Rifle holo could use its toobelt skills (well, more than half of the time...). If there's any one change I would like for holo, it would be to make PBM exempt from the toolbelt lockout. The nerf to that trait just came out of nowhere since it had already been out of the raid and fractal meta for months. And I thought my beloved rifle holo was safe since it was a little under-powered.

My thoughts on the engineer changes are somewhat mixed. On one hand, I find the buffs to the scrapper's hammer damage pointless considering the whole point of the specialization is to tank damage, not be able to take a beating and still put out a noticeable amount of damage. As for the changes I like, some of the scrapper trait changes are good mainly the change to Impact Savant, the med kit being useable underwater is great and the nerf to holographic shockwave is by far the best change in the entire engineer profession.

Sadly, no buffs to core engineer. Some will point out the nerf to the Shaped Charge trait in explosives, but I don't consider that a huge nerf and besides stacking vulnerability isn't too big of a problem for core engineer. This kind of change happened with thief and the Exposed Weakness trait, from a flat damage increase to now a 2% damage increase per condition and with the new Shaped Charge, once again from flat damage increase to a 0.5% damage increase. Maybe in a future balance patch they could increase it to 2% instead of 0.5%.

@Hoodie.1045 said:(… ) Sadly, no buffs to core engineer. Some will point out the nerf to the Shaped Charge trait in explosives, but I don't consider that a huge nerf and besides stacking vulnerability isn't too big of a problem for core engineer. This kind of change happened with thief and the Exposed Weakness trait, from a flat damage increase to now a 2% damage increase per condition and with the new Shaped Charge, once again from flat damage increase to a 0.5% damage increase. Maybe in a future balance patch they could increase it to 2% instead of 0.5%.

I do hope they increase it to 2%. I would need to maintain 20 stacks of vulnerability to get the same extra damage modifier (10%) as it was before. While a grenade using core engineer is good at causing vulnerability, it's virtually impossible to cause 20 stacks of vulnerability on a target under non-ideal conditions. Even if I were to spam grenade autoattacks (and the occasional grenade barrage at a lowered CD as soon as it went off CD), I would cap out at something between 13 and 16 (mostly 13) stacks - and camping grenades would be less than feasible, given the relatively low damage core power engineers (compared to most other core configurations and elite specs) cause by themselves.

Although I doubt that there would be many doing it, the trait change would be almost funny for scrappers utilizing it pre-nerf; losing out on the easy-to-get 10% damage bonus, just to get the hammer skills (except for one) buffed for even less than that :)

It is quite frustrating at the moment. I still try to get the "tank" feature running, but the changes are so underwhelming. Against single targets, bosses, players ... 3,5k barrier - even if I pick defensive traits. Boosting vitality to extend the HP pool beyond 20k, boosting damage to increase barrier generation. It is just not working at all. Anything slightly stronger than your average trash mob pierces through the barrier like it was made of paper. I am currently doing a HoT HP run with a friend, re-visiting some of my old challenges as the Chack HP in Auric Basin. This fight never was easy. Before they started balancing us, I played gladiator with the Chack and gave the other players the opportunity to stay ranged. This time, I play paper-target. Tanking any HP boss as I did in the old days is a total waste of time.

The most annoying part, I ran out of ideas for now. My last attempt included running the Superior Rune of Sanctuary, to gain that barrier the Scrapper lacks to be a tank. But that rune already got balanced enough, no significant improvement.

I'll keep trying. Maybe I find something, some mechanic or synergy that grants me the sustain.

@Strider.7849 said:

@"DinoStone.2485" said:I’m seeing a lot of discussions about the engineer changes, but not a lot of them are addressing all of my thoughts, so here they are, including the ones that have already been discussed. First of all, while I’m glad that they lessened the vitality loss from impact savant, I still think it’s increadibly stupid that it even exists. Next, they still haven’t fixed photonic blasting module, leaving my power rifle build for raids still kitten, and holosmith in general pretty undesireable in raids. They added to function gyro, but the real problem there is that function gyro still exists (you all know it’s kitten no matter what they do to it). The buff to all the hammer skills was nice, but it wasn’t what we were necessarily lacking in (and I still miss perfectly weighted).

He biggest gripe I have though, is the fact that they turned holographic shockwave into more of a holographic pond ripple

. It’s main use was (in my opinion) to either disable a large group of enemies, to take pressure off of you/your allies, or in pvp, to bait dodges. This nerf effectively kills both of those uses, which is a shame because it was one of my favorite skills, and an important part of the play style. (Also sidenote, warrior’s barrier eating trait makes me reluctant to ever bring my scrapper into pvp again).

Specifically calling me out, and "all these engineers" for not championing a crusade to kick and scream until ArenaNet takes back their scheduled holo nerfs?

Love you, Engi forum bro, but you are quite misguided.

I have some hard to swallow pills,

• Quickness Holographic Shockwave was too easy to hit and too rewarding in mid tier gameplay.
• Notable Engi mains are not obligated to give cringey, hypocritical arguments for why Holo is fine. Do not encourage this. I would go on a cringey rant against core or Scrapper nerfs, but it wouldn't be hypocritical.

@Strider.7849 said:

@DinoStone.2485 said:I’m seeing a lot of discussions about the engineer changes, but not a lot of them are addressing all of my thoughts, so here they are, including the ones that have already been discussed. First of all, while I’m glad that they lessened the vitality loss from impact savant, I still think it’s increadibly stupid that it even exists. Next, they still haven’t fixed photonic blasting module, leaving my power rifle build for raids still kitten, and holosmith in general pretty undesireable in raids. They added to function gyro, but the real problem there is that function gyro still exists (you all know it’s kitten no matter what they do to it). The buff to all the hammer skills was nice, but it wasn’t what we were necessarily lacking in (and I still miss perfectly weighted).

He biggest gripe I have though, is the fact that they turned holographic shockwave into more of a holographic pond ripple

. It’s main use was (in my opinion) to either disable a large group of enemies, to take pressure off of you/your allies, or in pvp, to bait dodges. This nerf effectively kills both of those uses, which is a shame because it was one of my favorite skills, and an important part of the play style. (Also sidenote, warrior’s barrier eating trait makes me reluctant to ever bring my scrapper into pvp again).

I've repeated this many times, but heat therapy needs a nerf. I'd say about 2/3 of its current healing potential needs to go.

I know it boggles the mind that a main engineer would say this, but Holo has a stupid amount of sustain for what it's supposed to be. Prot holo makes for a way better tank than scrapper ever could be because of this, and it can survive AND deal out massive damage 1v2. I frequently win 1v2s because of the ridiculous level of sustain I have access to.

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Strider.7849 said:

@DinoStone.2485 said:I’m seeing a lot of discussions about the engineer changes, but not a lot of them are addressing all of my thoughts, so here they are, including the ones that have already been discussed. First of all, while I’m glad that they lessened the vitality loss from impact savant, I still think it’s increadibly stupid that it even exists. Next, they still haven’t fixed photonic blasting module, leaving my power rifle build for raids still kitten, and holosmith in general pretty undesireable in raids. They added to function gyro, but the real problem there is that function gyro still exists (you all know it’s kitten no matter what they do to it). The buff to all the hammer skills was nice, but it wasn’t what we were necessarily lacking in (and I still miss perfectly weighted).

He biggest gripe I have though, is the fact that they turned holographic shockwave into more of a holographic pond ripple

. It’s main use was (in my opinion) to either disable a large group of enemies, to take pressure off of you/your allies, or in pvp, to bait dodges. This nerf effectively kills both of those uses, which is a shame because it was one of my favorite skills, and an important part of the play style. (Also sidenote, warrior’s barrier eating trait makes me reluctant to ever bring my scrapper into pvp again).

• Quickness Holographic Shockwave was too easy to hit and too rewarding in mid tier gameplay.
• Notable Engi mains are not obligated to give cringey, hypocritical arguments for why Holo is fine.
  Do not encourage this.
  I would go on a cringey rant against core or Scrapper nerfs, but it wouldn't be hypocritical.

I shouldn't have included your name, so for that I apologize. Just I play on NA and the only engineer who was active on the forums with a solid understanding of higher tier play and how the skills interact was you. I don't PvP anymore, just WvW. I'm not an engineer main, as you can tell by taking a quick glance at my tag, but I do appreciate the function it brings to roaming in WvW, as it gave really good control/peels in outnumbered fights. I know my comments/feedback means nothing, but I do know that sometimes anet listens when the community or known members are vocal. My views on it are vastly different then all of yours, and perhaps I didn't realize what a major issue this skill is if it's given anything more than a small aoe due to its interaction with quickness.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Strider.7849 said:

@DinoStone.2485 said:I’m seeing a lot of discussions about the engineer changes, but not a lot of them are addressing all of my thoughts, so here they are, including the ones that have already been discussed. First of all, while I’m glad that they lessened the vitality loss from impact savant, I still think it’s increadibly stupid that it even exists. Next, they still haven’t fixed photonic blasting module, leaving my power rifle build for raids still kitten, and holosmith in general pretty undesireable in raids. They added to function gyro, but the real problem there is that function gyro still exists (you all know it’s kitten no matter what they do to it). The buff to all the hammer skills was nice, but it wasn’t what we were necessarily lacking in (and I still miss perfectly weighted).

He biggest gripe I have though, is the fact that they turned holographic shockwave into more of a holographic pond ripple

. It’s main use was (in my opinion) to either disable a large group of enemies, to take pressure off of you/your allies, or in pvp, to bait dodges. This nerf effectively kills both of those uses, which is a shame because it was one of my favorite skills, and an important part of the play style. (Also sidenote, warrior’s barrier eating trait makes me reluctant to ever bring my scrapper into pvp again).

Yeah, I completely agree. In its current state holo is better at sustaining than scrapper and outside of barrier and superspeed, holo brings almost as much support. It's why I said that next they'll nerf it's sustain, access to forge, cooldowns, etc. The thing is when they do, what will be holos identity; is it just going to be a DPS class? Single target burst with some party cleanses? I don't know. I figured that if they nerf these needed things first and seperate scrapper from Holo in terms of function it could still bring unique utility with its ability to control groups. Although as pointed out, I'm in error as even if all that is removed, the CC it has is too strong.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Strider.7849 said:

@DinoStone.2485 said:I’m seeing a lot of discussions about the engineer changes, but not a lot of them are addressing all of my thoughts, so here they are, including the ones that have already been discussed. First of all, while I’m glad that they lessened the vitality loss from impact savant, I still think it’s increadibly stupid that it even exists. Next, they still haven’t fixed photonic blasting module, leaving my power rifle build for raids still kitten, and holosmith in general pretty undesireable in raids. They added to function gyro, but the real problem there is that function gyro still exists (you all know it’s kitten no matter what they do to it). The buff to all the hammer skills was nice, but it wasn’t what we were necessarily lacking in (and I still miss perfectly weighted).

He biggest gripe I have though, is the fact that they turned holographic shockwave into more of a holographic pond ripple

. It’s main use was (in my opinion) to either disable a large group of enemies, to take pressure off of you/your allies, or in pvp, to bait dodges. This nerf effectively kills both of those uses, which is a shame because it was one of my favorite skills, and an important part of the play style. (Also sidenote, warrior’s barrier eating trait makes me reluctant to ever bring my scrapper into pvp again).

Yeah I've been screaming for a shave off of Heat Therapy's healing, currently it's 65 per unit of heat lost. I'd like to see it drop down to something like 40 per unit of heat lost.

Seeing people here agreeing with the holo showckwave change honestly leaves me scratching my head. Was it too powerful before? Yes. But now it’s completely useless outside of extreme meow range, meaning that I can’t bait dodges with it or cc people because they can literally WALK out it the range before the cast finishes. Also, I’m pretty’s sure the changes to shaped charge were to keep it in line with the Mesmer trait fragility.

@DinoStone.2485 said:Seeing people here agreeing with the holo showckwave change honestly leaves me scratching my head. Was it too powerful before? Yes. But now it’s completely useless outside of extreme meow range, meaning that I can’t bait dodges with it or cc people because they can literally WALK out it the range before the cast finishes. Also, I’m pretty’s sure the changes to shaped charge were to keep it in line with the Mesmer trait fragility.And still seeing people thinking it was acceptable to have a skill on 15s cd that had twice the range of similar skills on 2x+ the cd is equally headscratching.

The holo range would be the eqvivalent of a meteor shower having the radius of ranger longbow distance.

Dont tell anyone, but the function gyro's real purpose is to give you another lightning field for rocket charge. Thats it. Rezzing and stomping is just a cute little distraction. Also its damage is now a little higher than surprise shot, which is nice for pve.