Drop of Visage of the Khan-Ur was doubled ¿Is that a joke? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Drop of Visage of the Khan-Ur was doubled ¿Is that a joke?

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  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Gw2efficiency users are probably representative of the subset of the GW2 community that is dedicated to the game and pursues achievements.

    Dedicated to the game? Probably. But pursuing achievements: not so much, the numbers aren't really impressive on gw2efficiency, other than those with 35k+ AP

    One does not need to farm meta to drop the helmet. Farmers have higher chances of eventually getting one due to the increased number of boxes they open, but it does not mean that only farmers get helmets. Moreover, the lower the drop rate the less it matters whether you farm metas or not.

    True, but 200 players farming the meta 1k times will have significantly higher chances of getting the drop as 10k players playing the meta once. Few players that over-farm will always get better results than loads of players that play once and then leave.

    The episode has been released just recently and we do know that the drop rates are very low, so it is hard to make estimates at this time. However, I believe that a combination of gw2efficiency statistics with TP statistics and prices will produce a better representation of the situation with helmets than gw2efficiency data alone.

    Of course, using as many data points as possible is always better. gw2efficiency shouldn't be used for that kind of comparison anyway

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Bandido.8719 said:

    Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

    Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

    It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

    This misses the point. The achievement is part of the story meta, which has a large buffer and can be easily completed without this achievement. Not every story achievement is a part of the story meta. This achievement cannot be completed atm as there are not three copies of the required item on the tp rn. It is theoretically possible to complete the achievement bc it's rng, but not yet. Now given all that, what you think SHOULD be, doesn't matter. Consider what is. How does it make sense to include that achievement in the story meta under the existing conditions . . ?

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:
    It's deceptive. You've all been fooled into thinking they made it easier to get the helmet. They made you think they listened to feedback, but screwed us over at the same time.

    Before the update: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K6Bsvh05TeAJ:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Recovered%22_Charr_Artifact+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d (cached version of the wiki page for the "Recovered" Charr Artifact)

    Before the update the only items in the box were:
    Uncommon: piece of rare unidentified gear
    Rare: a few named weapons and the Visage of the Khan-Ur
    Ultra rare: the infusion

    After the update: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Recovered"_Charr_Artifact
    Common: piece of rare unidentified gear, the 4 legion keys for opening the vault of Khan-Ur, and a whole bunch of carrion flame weapons
    Uncommon (new category): a whole bunch of carrion and legionnaire weapons
    Rare: still the same with the named weapons and the helmet
    Ultra rare: same with just the infusion

    Before the update there was a total of 7 items in the "Recovered" Charr Artifact loot table. Now there's a total of 48 items! They kept it simple with it only containing new unique items (and a piece of rare unidentified gear) that players would actually want. Now it has a whole bunch of trash weapons you can buy for practically nothing on the trading post. And there was no need to add the legion keys to it because they are tradeable and are pretty cheap in the trading post.

    It doesn't matter if they increased the drop rate of the helmet. They made sure to add in a ton of garbage to make sure the drop rate stays relatively the same. More items means the chance to get the helmet go down because the game has to roll for everything when you open the box.

    First off I'm not sure it works this way. If they say they doubled the odds of the box dropping I'm sure that's what they mean. I'm sure they've got someone there somewhere who can math . . .

    Second, the reason they added all those additional 'junk' items to the box is ppl complained about how unsatisfying it was to only get a single unid rare when opening the box and not hitting the jackpot. It's there to make the 'failed' rolls more rewarding . . .

    The inclusion of the keys is a little puzzling, but I'm guessing it's a response to players who felt the two-hour time commitment was too great for the reward. Putting the keys in the boxes drives prices down for ppl who want to purchase them, or lets ppl skip one of the metas the next day if they'd rather farm the keys themselves . . .

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:
    It's deceptive. You've all been fooled into thinking they made it easier to get the helmet. They made you think they listened to feedback, but screwed us over at the same time.

    Before the update: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K6Bsvh05TeAJ:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Recovered%22_Charr_Artifact+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d (cached version of the wiki page for the "Recovered" Charr Artifact)

    Before the update the only items in the box were:
    Uncommon: piece of rare unidentified gear
    Rare: a few named weapons and the Visage of the Khan-Ur
    Ultra rare: the infusion

    After the update: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Recovered"_Charr_Artifact
    Common: piece of rare unidentified gear, the 4 legion keys for opening the vault of Khan-Ur, and a whole bunch of carrion flame weapons
    Uncommon (new category): a whole bunch of carrion and legionnaire weapons
    Rare: still the same with the named weapons and the helmet
    Ultra rare: same with just the infusion

    Before the update there was a total of 7 items in the "Recovered" Charr Artifact loot table. Now there's a total of 48 items! They kept it simple with it only containing new unique items (and a piece of rare unidentified gear) that players would actually want. Now it has a whole bunch of trash weapons you can buy for practically nothing on the trading post. And there was no need to add the legion keys to it because they are tradeable and are pretty cheap in the trading post.

    It doesn't matter if they increased the drop rate of the helmet. They made sure to add in a ton of garbage to make sure the drop rate stays relatively the same. More items means the chance to get the helmet go down because the game has to roll for everything when you open the box.

    You can use the history tab on the wiki, you don't need to use google caches.

    Anyway your idea of drop rate is incorrect, as unless the rares share the same overall drop table percentage then it doesn't affect the drop rate of the Visage.

    For example if I put 10 nickels in a bag and 70 dimes I have 1/8 chance of a nickel. If I add 5 quarters in and remove 5 dimes , the rate of nickels is the same.

  • MokahTGS.7850MokahTGS.7850 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bandido.8719 said:

    Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

    Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

    I do.

  • Charrbeque.8729Charrbeque.8729 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Bandido.8719 said:

    Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

    Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

    It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

    This misses the point. The achievement is part of the story meta, which has a large buffer and can be easily completed without this achievement. Not every story achievement is a part of the story meta. This achievement cannot be completed atm as there are not three copies of the required item on the tp rn. It is theoretically possible to complete the achievement bc it's rng, but not yet. Now given all that, what you think SHOULD be, doesn't matter. Consider what is. How does it make sense to include that achievement in the story meta under the existing conditions . . ?

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:
    It's deceptive. You've all been fooled into thinking they made it easier to get the helmet. They made you think they listened to feedback, but screwed us over at the same time.

    Before the update: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K6Bsvh05TeAJ:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Recovered%22_Charr_Artifact+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d (cached version of the wiki page for the "Recovered" Charr Artifact)

    Before the update the only items in the box were:
    Uncommon: piece of rare unidentified gear
    Rare: a few named weapons and the Visage of the Khan-Ur
    Ultra rare: the infusion

    After the update: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Recovered"_Charr_Artifact
    Common: piece of rare unidentified gear, the 4 legion keys for opening the vault of Khan-Ur, and a whole bunch of carrion flame weapons
    Uncommon (new category): a whole bunch of carrion and legionnaire weapons
    Rare: still the same with the named weapons and the helmet
    Ultra rare: same with just the infusion

    Before the update there was a total of 7 items in the "Recovered" Charr Artifact loot table. Now there's a total of 48 items! They kept it simple with it only containing new unique items (and a piece of rare unidentified gear) that players would actually want. Now it has a whole bunch of trash weapons you can buy for practically nothing on the trading post. And there was no need to add the legion keys to it because they are tradeable and are pretty cheap in the trading post.

    It doesn't matter if they increased the drop rate of the helmet. They made sure to add in a ton of garbage to make sure the drop rate stays relatively the same. More items means the chance to get the helmet go down because the game has to roll for everything when you open the box.

    First off I'm not sure it works this way. If they say they doubled the odds of the box dropping I'm sure that's what they mean. I'm sure they've got someone there somewhere who can math . . .

    Second, the reason they added all those additional 'junk' items to the box is ppl complained about how unsatisfying it was to only get a single unid rare when opening the box and not hitting the jackpot. It's there to make the 'failed' rolls more rewarding . . .

    The inclusion of the keys is a little puzzling, but I'm guessing it's a response to players who felt the two-hour time commitment was too great for the reward. Putting the keys in the boxes drives prices down for ppl who want to purchase them, or lets ppl skip one of the metas the next day if they'd rather farm the keys themselves . . .

    I guess my brain went to mars on that one.

    I'll try to clarify so it kinda sorta makes some kinda sense.

    Before, if you rolled anything higher than common you'd get a rare or ultra rare item. But with the inclusion of the uncommon category - and it having a higher chance to drop than a rare - your chances to get an item from the rare category are decreased. If you do get an item from the rare category, your chances at the helmet are better. But overall, it's not much better than before. You'll most likely get an uncommon item than a rare if you get anything better than a common.

    1 solution would be to give 1 recovered charr artifact from each meta event per day (per account if needed). The means to get them are very very small - 1 per day from the chest in the vault you open using the legion keys and you can only use the keys to open the vault once per day (not sure if it's per character or account daily for opening the vault with the keys), and from map complete. But for map complete you can't just create/delete new characters to farm them, unless you have a teleport to friend item (which requires you to be level 10 and has a 1 hour cooldown, and a friend to hang in the map or park an alt account). Aside from that the only other way is getting a few artifacts from a wvw/pvp reward track, but that reward track can only be completed once, and the track that replaces it after you complete it doesn't give any artifacts at all. So they could also add at least 1 recovered charr artifact to the Icebrood Saga Reward Track so that wvw/pvp players who don't PvE with us noobs have a better chance at the helmet.

    TL;DR The numbers are nowhere near an educated guess. I'm just trying to make a point.

    Before update: common 80%>rare 15%>ultra rare 5%

    After update: common 80%>uncommon 10%>rare 5%>ultra rare 5%

    The chances to get the helmet are increased if you get something from the rare category. But with the uncommon category being added, your chances to get anything from the rare category decreases, thus making the helmet still really hard to get. (And most of the items they added are just trash loot you can get dropped from monsters in the open world, or buy from karma vendors)

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    You don't need to use teleport to friend , once you unlock grothmar valley you can use the teleport scroll. Map complete takes less than 40 minutes, I'm sure of it.

    Also once again if the uncommon category replaces commons in the drop table, it doesn't affect the rare drop rate. See my above example.

    Let's say you have 50 pennies "common" , 10 nickels "uncommon" , 5 quarters "rare", 1 half-dollar "super rare". The odds are the same as if you have 60 pennies with 5 quarters and one half-dollar.

    I can guarantee you super rare is not 5%.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Bandido.8719 said:

    Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

    Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

    It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

    This misses the point. The achievement is part of the story meta, which has a large buffer and can be easily completed without this achievement. Not every story achievement is a part of the story meta. This achievement cannot be completed atm as there are not three copies of the required item on the tp rn. It is theoretically possible to complete the achievement bc it's rng, but not yet. Now given all that, what you think SHOULD be, doesn't matter. Consider what is. How does it make sense to include that achievement in the story meta under the existing conditions . . ?

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:
    It's deceptive. You've all been fooled into thinking they made it easier to get the helmet. They made you think they listened to feedback, but screwed us over at the same time.

    Before the update: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K6Bsvh05TeAJ:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Recovered%22_Charr_Artifact+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d (cached version of the wiki page for the "Recovered" Charr Artifact)

    Before the update the only items in the box were:
    Uncommon: piece of rare unidentified gear
    Rare: a few named weapons and the Visage of the Khan-Ur
    Ultra rare: the infusion

    After the update: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Recovered"_Charr_Artifact
    Common: piece of rare unidentified gear, the 4 legion keys for opening the vault of Khan-Ur, and a whole bunch of carrion flame weapons
    Uncommon (new category): a whole bunch of carrion and legionnaire weapons
    Rare: still the same with the named weapons and the helmet
    Ultra rare: same with just the infusion

    Before the update there was a total of 7 items in the "Recovered" Charr Artifact loot table. Now there's a total of 48 items! They kept it simple with it only containing new unique items (and a piece of rare unidentified gear) that players would actually want. Now it has a whole bunch of trash weapons you can buy for practically nothing on the trading post. And there was no need to add the legion keys to it because they are tradeable and are pretty cheap in the trading post.

    It doesn't matter if they increased the drop rate of the helmet. They made sure to add in a ton of garbage to make sure the drop rate stays relatively the same. More items means the chance to get the helmet go down because the game has to roll for everything when you open the box.

    First off I'm not sure it works this way. If they say they doubled the odds of the box dropping I'm sure that's what they mean. I'm sure they've got someone there somewhere who can math . . .

    Second, the reason they added all those additional 'junk' items to the box is ppl complained about how unsatisfying it was to only get a single unid rare when opening the box and not hitting the jackpot. It's there to make the 'failed' rolls more rewarding . . .

    The inclusion of the keys is a little puzzling, but I'm guessing it's a response to players who felt the two-hour time commitment was too great for the reward. Putting the keys in the boxes drives prices down for ppl who want to purchase them, or lets ppl skip one of the metas the next day if they'd rather farm the keys themselves . . .

    I guess my brain went to mars on that one.

    I'll try to clarify so it kinda sorta makes some kinda sense.

    Before, if you rolled anything higher than common you'd get a rare or ultra rare item. But with the inclusion of the uncommon category - and it having a higher chance to drop than a rare - your chances to get an item from the rare category are decreased. If you do get an item from the rare category, your chances at the helmet are better. But overall, it's not much better than before. You'll most likely get an uncommon item than a rare if you get anything better than a common.

    1 solution would be to give 1 recovered charr artifact from each meta event per day (per account if needed). The means to get them are very very small - 1 per day from the chest in the vault you open using the legion keys and you can only use the keys to open the vault once per day (not sure if it's per character or account daily for opening the vault with the keys), and from map complete. But for map complete you can't just create/delete new characters to farm them, unless you have a teleport to friend item (which requires you to be level 10 and has a 1 hour cooldown, and a friend to hang in the map or park an alt account). Aside from that the only other way is getting a few artifacts from a wvw/pvp reward track, but that reward track can only be completed once, and the track that replaces it after you complete it doesn't give any artifacts at all. So they could also add at least 1 recovered charr artifact to the Icebrood Saga Reward Track so that wvw/pvp players who don't PvE with us noobs have a better chance at the helmet.

    TL;DR The numbers are nowhere near an educated guess. I'm just trying to make a point.

    Before update: common 80%>rare 15%>ultra rare 5%

    After update: common 80%>uncommon 10%>rare 5%>ultra rare 5%

    The chances to get the helmet are increased if you get something from the rare category. But with the uncommon category being added, your chances to get anything from the rare category decreases, thus making the helmet still really hard to get. (And most of the items they added are just trash loot you can get dropped from monsters in the open world, or buy from karma vendors)

    I understand what you are saying, but there is no reason to believe it works that way. They could have just as easily taken the 'extra' chance for the visage box from the common share as taken the uncommon share from the rare share. Assuming that the common share must remain constant is arbitrary. What is even more likely is that the common item is a guaranteed drop and higher tier items have some chance of dropping in addition to, rather than in place of, the common items as this is how most of anet's lootboxes have worked in the past. The way the text sounds to me is that we are now getting four things from the vault chest: 1) the unid yellow 2) the 'charr-themed gear', either uncommon or rare 3) one of the four meta keys and 4) rolls at the higher tier gear . . .

    The bottom line is that we really have no idea of how it works, but anet does, and they stated that the chances of receiving the visage box have been doubled. That could mean they doubled the % chance of the box dropping, it could also mean that you now get two rolls at the box every time you open the vault, so you could theoretically get two boxes drop from a single chest. We just don't know . . .

    EDIT: All that said I do agree that 'doubling' the drop rate for this item in these circumstances seems like a somewhat ridiculous response, but anet has access to more data than we do . . .

  • Charrbeque.8729Charrbeque.8729 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Bandido.8719 said:

    Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

    Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

    It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

    This misses the point. The achievement is part of the story meta, which has a large buffer and can be easily completed without this achievement. Not every story achievement is a part of the story meta. This achievement cannot be completed atm as there are not three copies of the required item on the tp rn. It is theoretically possible to complete the achievement bc it's rng, but not yet. Now given all that, what you think SHOULD be, doesn't matter. Consider what is. How does it make sense to include that achievement in the story meta under the existing conditions . . ?

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:
    It's deceptive. You've all been fooled into thinking they made it easier to get the helmet. They made you think they listened to feedback, but screwed us over at the same time.

    Before the update: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K6Bsvh05TeAJ:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Recovered%22_Charr_Artifact+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d (cached version of the wiki page for the "Recovered" Charr Artifact)

    Before the update the only items in the box were:
    Uncommon: piece of rare unidentified gear
    Rare: a few named weapons and the Visage of the Khan-Ur
    Ultra rare: the infusion

    After the update: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Recovered"_Charr_Artifact
    Common: piece of rare unidentified gear, the 4 legion keys for opening the vault of Khan-Ur, and a whole bunch of carrion flame weapons
    Uncommon (new category): a whole bunch of carrion and legionnaire weapons
    Rare: still the same with the named weapons and the helmet
    Ultra rare: same with just the infusion

    Before the update there was a total of 7 items in the "Recovered" Charr Artifact loot table. Now there's a total of 48 items! They kept it simple with it only containing new unique items (and a piece of rare unidentified gear) that players would actually want. Now it has a whole bunch of trash weapons you can buy for practically nothing on the trading post. And there was no need to add the legion keys to it because they are tradeable and are pretty cheap in the trading post.

    It doesn't matter if they increased the drop rate of the helmet. They made sure to add in a ton of garbage to make sure the drop rate stays relatively the same. More items means the chance to get the helmet go down because the game has to roll for everything when you open the box.

    First off I'm not sure it works this way. If they say they doubled the odds of the box dropping I'm sure that's what they mean. I'm sure they've got someone there somewhere who can math . . .

    Second, the reason they added all those additional 'junk' items to the box is ppl complained about how unsatisfying it was to only get a single unid rare when opening the box and not hitting the jackpot. It's there to make the 'failed' rolls more rewarding . . .

    The inclusion of the keys is a little puzzling, but I'm guessing it's a response to players who felt the two-hour time commitment was too great for the reward. Putting the keys in the boxes drives prices down for ppl who want to purchase them, or lets ppl skip one of the metas the next day if they'd rather farm the keys themselves . . .

    I guess my brain went to mars on that one.

    I'll try to clarify so it kinda sorta makes some kinda sense.

    Before, if you rolled anything higher than common you'd get a rare or ultra rare item. But with the inclusion of the uncommon category - and it having a higher chance to drop than a rare - your chances to get an item from the rare category are decreased. If you do get an item from the rare category, your chances at the helmet are better. But overall, it's not much better than before. You'll most likely get an uncommon item than a rare if you get anything better than a common.

    1 solution would be to give 1 recovered charr artifact from each meta event per day (per account if needed). The means to get them are very very small - 1 per day from the chest in the vault you open using the legion keys and you can only use the keys to open the vault once per day (not sure if it's per character or account daily for opening the vault with the keys), and from map complete. But for map complete you can't just create/delete new characters to farm them, unless you have a teleport to friend item (which requires you to be level 10 and has a 1 hour cooldown, and a friend to hang in the map or park an alt account). Aside from that the only other way is getting a few artifacts from a wvw/pvp reward track, but that reward track can only be completed once, and the track that replaces it after you complete it doesn't give any artifacts at all. So they could also add at least 1 recovered charr artifact to the Icebrood Saga Reward Track so that wvw/pvp players who don't PvE with us noobs have a better chance at the helmet.

    TL;DR The numbers are nowhere near an educated guess. I'm just trying to make a point.

    Before update: common 80%>rare 15%>ultra rare 5%

    After update: common 80%>uncommon 10%>rare 5%>ultra rare 5%

    The chances to get the helmet are increased if you get something from the rare category. But with the uncommon category being added, your chances to get anything from the rare category decreases, thus making the helmet still really hard to get. (And most of the items they added are just trash loot you can get dropped from monsters in the open world, or buy from karma vendors)

    I understand what you are saying, but there is no reason to believe it works that way. They could have just as easily taken the 'extra' chance for the visage box from the common share as taken the uncommon share from the rare share. Assuming that the common share must remain constant is arbitrary. What is even more likely is that the common item is a guaranteed drop and higher tier items have some chance of dropping in addition to, rather than in place of, the common items as this is how most of anet's lootboxes have worked in the past. The way the text sounds to me is that we are now getting four things from the vault chest: 1) the unid yellow 2) the 'charr-themed gear', either uncommon or rare 3) one of the four meta keys and 4) rolls at the higher tier gear . . .

    The bottom line is that we really have no idea of how it works, but anet does, and they stated that the chances of receiving the visage box have been doubled. That could mean they doubled the % chance of the box dropping, it could also mean that you now get two rolls at the box every time you open the vault, so you could theoretically get two boxes drop from a single chest. We just don't know . . .

    EDIT: All that said I do agree that 'doubling' the drop rate for this item in these circumstances seems like a somewhat ridiculous response, but anet has access to more data than we do . . .

    I'm just gonna agree with you and call it quits for this topic. I'm so confused right now.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bandido.8719 said:

    Items
    "Recovered" Charr Artifacts now have increased rewards: an additional piece of charr-themed gear, one of the four legion keys, and double the chance of receiving a Visage of the Khan-Ur.

    There is an achievement collection demanding 3 of these visages. Nowadays only one is listed on the TP at 10K... so, the drop of this object was absurdly low. Anet seems aware, so they decided to increase it, and decide to only increase it x2. Also, we have to consider the population decrease of the map... this just leaves this achievement as impossible.

    You mean the population decrease of the map that hasn't happened yet...or the one you're expecting to happen anytime now?

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • You mean the population decrease of the map that hasn't happened yet...or the one you're expecting to happen anytime now?

    Hasn't happened? Of course the map still has a lot of people, but can't compare with the first days. If in the first 15 days with a lot of people doing the map metas so few of these has dropped, how many more drops can you expect to happen when the majority of people leaves the map?

    24 hours later... still only one in TP at 10k, and the same buying order of 5.5k

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:
    It's deceptive. You've all been fooled into thinking they made it easier to get the helmet. They made you think they listened to feedback, but screwed us over at the same time.

    Before the update: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:K6Bsvh05TeAJ:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Recovered%22_Charr_Artifact+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d (cached version of the wiki page for the "Recovered" Charr Artifact)

    Before the update the only items in the box were:
    Uncommon: piece of rare unidentified gear
    Rare: a few named weapons and the Visage of the Khan-Ur
    Ultra rare: the infusion

    After the update: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Recovered"_Charr_Artifact
    Common: piece of rare unidentified gear, the 4 legion keys for opening the vault of Khan-Ur, and a whole bunch of carrion flame weapons
    Uncommon (new category): a whole bunch of carrion and legionnaire weapons
    Rare: still the same with the named weapons and the helmet
    Ultra rare: same with just the infusion

    Before the update there was a total of 7 items in the "Recovered" Charr Artifact loot table. Now there's a total of 48 items! They kept it simple with it only containing new unique items (and a piece of rare unidentified gear) that players would actually want. Now it has a whole bunch of trash weapons you can buy for practically nothing on the trading post. And there was no need to add the legion keys to it because they are tradeable and are pretty cheap in the trading post.

    It doesn't matter if they increased the drop rate of the helmet. They made sure to add in a ton of garbage to make sure the drop rate stays relatively the same. More items means the chance to get the helmet go down because the game has to roll for everything when you open the box.

    You can use the history tab on the wiki, you don't need to use google caches.

    Anyway your idea of drop rate is incorrect, as unless the rares share the same overall drop table percentage then it doesn't affect the drop rate of the Visage.

    For example if I put 10 nickels in a bag and 70 dimes I have 1/8 chance of a nickel. If I add 5 quarters in and remove 5 dimes , the rate of nickels is the same.

    So if youi had 7 items that could drop then added 41 others for a total of 48 you somehow can predict that 1 of the original 7 will drop twice as much?
    Its not following your analogy of the nickels at all they dident remove anything and made the pool almost 5 times bigger.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just opened 6 Charr Artifacts and got 6 rare unidentified items, 6 legion keys, and also 5 rare Flame weapons and 1 exotic Legionnaire weapon.

    Previously, (and annoyingly) I'd opened a dozen or so Charr Artifacts and gotten only a single rare unidentified item from each so the drops are definitely better than they were however it's worth noting that doubling a ~0% drop chance results in a ~0% drop chance. As in the chances are so small doubling them means very little.

    They probably shouldn't have created the collection as it just draws attention to the low drop rate.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:
    Just opened 6 Charr Artifacts and got 6 rare unidentified items, 6 legion keys, and also 5 rare Flame weapons and 1 exotic Legionnaire weapon.

    Previously, (and annoyingly) I'd opened a dozen or so Charr Artifacts and gotten only a single rare unidentified item from each so the drops are definitely better than they were however it's worth noting that doubling a ~0% drop chance results in a ~0% drop chance. As in the chances are so small doubling them means very little.

    They probably shouldn't have created the collection as it just draws attention to the low drop rate.

    Ah I thought you would still only get 1 of the choices. ( so still better but a token system or like dragonfall after 1k chests you get a autoamtic drop would be nice)

  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Gw2efficiency users are probably representative of the subset of the GW2 community that is dedicated to the game and pursues achievements.

    Dedicated to the game? Probably. But pursuing achievements: not so much, the numbers aren't really impressive on gw2efficiency, other than those with 35k+ AP

    Without knowing the achievements statistics for the entire player population we cannot say whether the numbers on gw2efficiency 'aren't really impressive'. It very much can be that those unimpressive numbers are on the higher end and GW2 players, in general, do not have much interest in achievements. We also need to consider that not all registered gw2efficiency users are active players and/or have access to all existing content.

    It can also be that my assumption was wrong. But this is why I used 'probably' instead of 'definitely'.

    One does not need to farm meta to drop the helmet. Farmers have higher chances of eventually getting one due to the increased number of boxes they open, but it does not mean that only farmers get helmets. Moreover, the lower the drop rate the less it matters whether you farm metas or not.

    True, but 200 players farming the meta 1k times will have significantly higher chances of getting the drop as 10k players playing the meta once. Few players that over-farm will always get better results than loads of players that play once and then leave.

    You are right. However, those 200 players will collectively have a higher chance of getting the drop, simply because they will have 200 000 attempts instead of 10 000.
    It does not mean that each of 200 farmers will get their desired drop if the drop rate is 1/1000 or lower (which seems to be the case with helmets). It is actually possible that not even one of them gets the helmet.

    My point was that you most likely would do better making money and buying the helmet than farming it. Considering that the drop rate is low and the number of possible rolls per day is limited, it might be faster to make enough money and find a seller than drop the helmet on your own.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @Linken.6345 said:

    So if you had 7 items that could drop then added 41 others for a total of 48 you somehow can predict that 1 of the original 7 will drop twice as much?
    Its not following your analogy of the nickels at all they didnt remove anything and made the pool almost 5 times bigger.

    You're assuming that each rare drop had the same chance to drop. If true, it was probably ~1/100 drops rare (0.99%) with 1/10K super rare (0.01%). For a sample size of 10K you should get theoretically get 1 Khan-ur infusion , 20 x4 = 80 collection weapons, ~ 19 Visages , and 9.9K unids ("common").

    The new drop rate (from above speculation) is probably 9% uncommon, ~0.99% rare, 0.01% super rare along with chance of key returns. There's 18 different "uncommon" (exotic) drops.
    You'd end up with something like 1 Khan-ur infusion, 15x4 = 60 collection weapons , ~ 39 visages , 900 "uncommon" exotics, and rest unid or "common" weapons .
    An alternative is the entire "rare" category has been doubled in drop rate and uncommon and above is a more generous 1 in 5 (20%), such that it results in :
    18% uncommon , 1.99% rare , 0.01% super rare.
    For sample size 10K : 1 Khan-ur infusion, 40x4 = 160 collection weapons, ~39 visages, 1800 "uncommon" exotics , rest unid or "common" weapons.

    We've seen something similar with unid gear, where green unid gear had 2.5/40 rare (~6.25%) and 6/1000 exotic (~0.6%). Blue unid gear was 1.2/11 masterwork (~10%), 1/100 rare (1%), 1/1000 exotic (0.1%). ~0.2% drop rate is also seen in fractal encryptions, to date the record is 13 skins out of over 70K cracked fractal encryptions.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    As a rule of thumb, whenever Something is Added to the drop pool of a container, every other drop from said container will take a sharp nosedive in term of acquisition percent. Which is technically logical, as infuriating as it is. I quite dislike this.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think idea is to get you to actually you know play the game. I could be wrong of course as no one seems to want to play.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Without knowing the achievements statistics for the entire player population we cannot say whether the numbers on gw2efficiency 'aren't really impressive'.

    If you have a large enough friendlist/guild list you can see the achievement statistics of the entire player population using the leaderboards as they show the "break points" for each 10%. It works well at low numbers with enough variation, but the final 10% is bloated with the majority of points

    You are right. However, those 200 players will collectively have a higher chance of getting the drop, simply because they will have 200 000 attempts instead of 10 000.
    It does not mean that each of 200 farmers will get their desired drop if the drop rate is 1/1000 or lower (which seems to be the case with helmets). It is actually possible that not even one of them gets the helmet.

    True but it's a matter of statistics. The initial poster said there were 7 drops recorded on gw2efficiency and there was the question if that number is significant or not. If those 7 drops came from the players that overfarm the meta because they are achievement hunters, or farmers in general, then they are the 200 players in the example above. The 10k players won't increase the drops by much, because they will run it too few times. If we assume the percentages worked "fairly" the 200 players (with 200k attempts) should get way more drops than the 10k players, statistically speaking. Of course since it's pure chance we can never be sure but with such large sample, if chances work fairly, the 1-time runners shouldn't affect the drop rates as much as the big farmers, no matter how few farmers exist compared to the rest.

    At least that's my understanding and why those gw2eff drops are likely to be significant.

  • SidewayS.3789SidewayS.3789 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes, they increased the rate drop from 0,01 to 0,02. TADA !!!!!!! Doubled the chance :astonished:

    🌊 Kristoff Pentaghast 🌊
    💧 Acolyte of Dwayna 💧

  • Just updating that till now (17th day after release of Prologue) nothing changed and there are still only 7 unlocked skins for sample of 200k registered accounts at gw2eff.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a rule of thumb, whenever Something is Added to the drop pool of a container, every other drop from said container will take a sharp nosedive in term of acquisition percent. Which is technically logical, as infuriating as it is. I quite dislike this.

    But anet's lootboxes rarely work this way. Their 'jackpot' items are typically extra rolls, they don't replace another item that would have otherwise dropped. Again, the patch note was that they have double the chance of 'receiving' the visage box . . .

    @banshee.9328 said:
    Just updating that till now (17th day after release of Prologue) nothing changed and there are still only 7 unlocked skins for sample of 200k registered accounts at gw2eff.

    And still only one listed on tp for 10k. The high buy order is down to 2240g, though it is impossible to know whether the higher orders were filled or removed. And while I agree the current solution isn't likely to bring a dramatic improvement to the situation, if we're going to use efficiency numbers it's probably best to use the 55k accounts that have finished the first chapter of the prologue rather than the 200k accounts that have been registered, many of which are likely abandoned . . .

  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ol Nik.2518 said:
    Without knowing the achievements statistics for the entire player population we cannot say whether the numbers on gw2efficiency 'aren't really impressive'.

    If you have a large enough friendlist/guild list you can see the achievement statistics of the entire player population using the leaderboards as they show the "break points" for each 10%. It works well at low numbers with enough variation, but the final 10% is bloated with the majority of points

    I did not know that. How the leaderboards work, though? Do they show all 11 000 000 created accounts or only accounts active within a specific period of time?

    You are right. However, those 200 players will collectively have a higher chance of getting the drop, simply because they will have 200 000 attempts instead of 10 000.
    It does not mean that each of 200 farmers will get their desired drop if the drop rate is 1/1000 or lower (which seems to be the case with helmets). It is actually possible that not even one of them gets the helmet.

    True but it's a matter of statistics. The initial poster said there were 7 drops recorded on gw2efficiency and there was the question if that number is significant or not. If those 7 drops came from the players that overfarm the meta because they are achievement hunters, or farmers in general, then they are the 200 players in the example above. The 10k players won't increase the drops by much, because they will run it too few times. If we assume the percentages worked "fairly" the 200 players (with 200k attempts) should get way more drops than the 10k players, statistically speaking. Of course since it's pure chance we can never be sure but with such large sample, if chances work fairly, the 1-time runners shouldn't affect the drop rates as much as the big farmers, no matter how few farmers exist compared to the rest.

    At least that's my understanding and why those gw2eff drops are likely to be significant.

    Gw2efficiency data is significant, but it is not enough. There are more than 7 helmets in the game now. But we do not know how many more than 7.

    Considering that one can obtain only a limited number of boxes per day and the helmet's drop rate is very low, it is much more probable that regular players got helmets, not the farmers. Because by now non-farmers had more rolls than farmers.

    Please also consider that at the time of this comment 54 828 gw2efficiency users have unlocked 'Coming Home' achievement given for the completion of the first instance of the Prologue. 22 391 players completed 'Secrets of the Khan-Ur' achievement. This gives us grounds to assume that much more than 10 000 players obtained boxes in one way or another.

    Please note that 200 000 attempts do not constitute a sufficiently big sample if we are talking about probabilities in the range of 0.001 (1/1000 or 0.1%). To put things in perspective, 2 000 000 (two million) attempts will produce from 1 950 to 2 050 helmets (this is close to the mathematical expectation for 1/1000 drop rate) with the 71% probability.

  • Kalaina.8245Kalaina.8245 Member ✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    For the record, using only gw2efficiency data is a conservative estimate. The reality is that there are a lot more than 3,000 people interested in this achievement (and yes, there are more than 3,000 even on gw2efficiency), and that means higher demand than estimated. There are a lot more than 60,000 of these boxes that have been opened, and yet we've only seen a couple dozen of these drop, at most, in the weeks since release, which makes the drop rate lower than you might otherwise estimate. By constraining estimates to gw2efficiency users only, we can arrive at numbers that look more favorable than they really are, meaning an expected 1000 hours of gameplay per box is more favorable than the reality if you're grinding this out via new characters and map completion at a half hour per box.

    You could also just buy keys and open the vault every day, which means you'll get your (first) Visage after an average of 5 years using gw2efficiency-based estimates, or realistically speaking probably more like 10-20 years.

    At these drop rates and with the expected amount of demand, I think it's reasonable to believe that the price on these boxes will never drop below at least a few thousand gold per box. And yes, you do need three for the achievement.

  • Getting this box requires an absurd amount of effort for an achievement that grants a mere 5 AP and an item you can buy off the provisioner for 5g + 200 peppers.

    ANet really needs to rethink this.

  • @JeffJeth.9518 said:
    Getting this box requires an absurd amount of effort for an achievement that grants a mere 5 AP and an item you can buy off the provisioner for 5g + 200 peppers.

    ANet really needs to rethink this.

    It's 1AP actually you miss if you skip masks. 5AP is for all the items. :)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jesse.5029 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Bandido.8719 said:

    Do you really need everything to enjoy the game?

    Do you enjoy with impossible achievements?

    It's not impossible. It's just put of most people's reach. Which is what most achievements SHOULD be.

    Aside from that being the worst logic I can think of, if you add something that practically no player will get, at least don't make it something like cultural armor which people have been begging for for years.

    Back on release the 120g needed to complete a full set of T3 Cultural Armor was considered insane. This is back in an era where converting gems into gold would get you about 10 gold for 800 ($10) in gems.

    This new helm is literally "Helm of the Supreme Leader of the Charr". It SHOULD be really rare.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Well for me it has the opposite effect. I do the events now to try to get it lucky since it's worth so much. I wouldn't have bothered to grind for it, if it was able to be obtained and account bound. I would have stopped going to this map. Maybe next time there's something I want and I'll have to pay for it if I really like it for my character. I guess for the AP folks it's unfortunate.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kahrgan.7401 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I think idea is to get you to actually you know play the game. I could be wrong of course as no one seems to want to play.

    RNG has what I call an "interest curve" Its only interesting until you get pissed off about spending your time trying to get something and not getting it in a decent amount of time or at all

    Your logic is flawed.

    A grind would guarantee people play the game. RNG doesnt encourage me to play the game, in fact i've played less since the only reward I want is locked behind a lottery. I also stopped buying gems because why in the hell would I want to financially support a company that does this?

    kitten them.

    no sorry it isn't. sometimes you have to work for things.

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    100% of something nearly zero is still nearly zero. I think the chak egg sac over the years as been worked out to be a 1/10,000 drop rate. Making that 1/5000 metas is still going to mean you will probably never see it. If you did 1 meta a day--which is realistic for TD--it would roughly on average take you 14 years to get it via a drop. You're better off farming the gold for one and just leaving RNG in getting one as a bonus surprise.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Kahrgan.7401 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I think idea is to get you to actually you know play the game. I could be wrong of course as no one seems to want to play.

    RNG has what I call an "interest curve" Its only interesting until you get pissed off about spending your time trying to get something and not getting it in a decent amount of time or at all

    Your logic is flawed.

    A grind would guarantee people play the game. RNG doesnt encourage me to play the game, in fact i've played less since the only reward I want is locked behind a lottery. I also stopped buying gems because why in the hell would I want to financially support a company that does this?

    kitten them.

    no sorry it isn't. sometimes you have to work for things.

    It seems like you agree. A way to work towards the goal is just what the poster you quoted was asking for . . .

    @Despond.2174 said:
    100% of something nearly zero is still nearly zero. I think the chak egg sac over the years as been worked out to be a 1/10,000 drop rate. Making that 1/5000 metas is still going to mean you will probably never see it. If you did 1 meta a day--which is realistic for TD--it would roughly on average take you 14 years to get it via a drop. You're better off farming the gold for one and just leaving RNG in getting one as a bonus surprise.

    It's ALWAYS better to farm the gold and buy the shiny than rely on rng, so that's not really the point. The point is the rng is so broken you can't actually buy the shiny lol . . .

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Kahrgan.7401 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I think idea is to get you to actually you know play the game. I could be wrong of course as no one seems to want to play.

    RNG has what I call an "interest curve" Its only interesting until you get pissed off about spending your time trying to get something and not getting it in a decent amount of time or at all

    Your logic is flawed.

    A grind would guarantee people play the game. RNG doesnt encourage me to play the game, in fact i've played less since the only reward I want is locked behind a lottery. I also stopped buying gems because why in the hell would I want to financially support a company that does this?

    kitten them.

    no sorry it isn't. sometimes you have to work for things.

    It seems like you agree. A way to work towards the goal is just what the poster you quoted was asking for . . .

    @Despond.2174 said:
    100% of something nearly zero is still nearly zero. I think the chak egg sac over the years as been worked out to be a 1/10,000 drop rate. Making that 1/5000 metas is still going to mean you will probably never see it. If you did 1 meta a day--which is realistic for TD--it would roughly on average take you 14 years to get it via a drop. You're better off farming the gold for one and just leaving RNG in getting one as a bonus surprise.

    It's ALWAYS better to farm the gold and buy the shiny than rely on rng, so that's not really the point. The point is the rng is so broken you can't actually buy the shiny lol . .

    Where does it say i agree? mmmmmm
    They think anet shouldn't have rng, i'm saying RNG is a way to get people to do stuff.
    Don't see me agreeing.
    sorry.

  • Ol Nik.2518Ol Nik.2518 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Kahrgan.7401 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I think idea is to get you to actually you know play the game. I could be wrong of course as no one seems to want to play.

    RNG has what I call an "interest curve" Its only interesting until you get pissed off about spending your time trying to get something and not getting it in a decent amount of time or at all

    Your logic is flawed.

    A grind would guarantee people play the game. RNG doesnt encourage me to play the game, in fact i've played less since the only reward I want is locked behind a lottery. I also stopped buying gems because why in the hell would I want to financially support a company that does this?

    kitten them.

    no sorry it isn't. sometimes you have to work for things.

    Would you consider buying one lottery ticket a day working toward buying a car?

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Kahrgan.7401 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I think idea is to get you to actually you know play the game. I could be wrong of course as no one seems to want to play.

    RNG has what I call an "interest curve" Its only interesting until you get pissed off about spending your time trying to get something and not getting it in a decent amount of time or at all

    Your logic is flawed.

    A grind would guarantee people play the game. RNG doesnt encourage me to play the game, in fact i've played less since the only reward I want is locked behind a lottery. I also stopped buying gems because why in the hell would I want to financially support a company that does this?

    kitten them.

    no sorry it isn't. sometimes you have to work for things.

    It seems like you agree. A way to work towards the goal is just what the poster you quoted was asking for . . .

    @Despond.2174 said:
    100% of something nearly zero is still nearly zero. I think the chak egg sac over the years as been worked out to be a 1/10,000 drop rate. Making that 1/5000 metas is still going to mean you will probably never see it. If you did 1 meta a day--which is realistic for TD--it would roughly on average take you 14 years to get it via a drop. You're better off farming the gold for one and just leaving RNG in getting one as a bonus surprise.

    It's ALWAYS better to farm the gold and buy the shiny than rely on rng, so that's not really the point. The point is the rng is so broken you can't actually buy the shiny lol . .

    Where does it say i agree? mmmmmm
    They think anet shouldn't have rng, i'm saying RNG is a way to get people to do stuff.
    Don't see me agreeing.
    sorry.

    Then you mistated your position when you said 'sometimes you have to work for things' in response to a player asking for a way to work for something, But that's okay, mistakes happen :)

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    There are 13 helms atm recorded 3 in the tp and 10 bound in gw2efficiency, this could potentially be the rarest armor piece in the game and will become even rarer when people move on from the map. I think this is supposed to be the exchange for the legendary gold sink, but i don't feel like it works well since the skin is not worth 3 legendary items and it has a chance to drop only from one place in the game once a day. If it was lets say was a precursor for legendary helm, like the pvp/wvw and it was just material sink collection it would have been cool. But right know there is no meaningful way to obtain it just luck, it is not proof of anything, the collection contradicts that and it seems that it should have been easier to get. The only thing i can presume is that item will never drop and it should be considered that it doesn't exist, so i have to accept it and move on(but it still bugs me).

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    The only thing i can presume is that item will never drop and it should be considered that it doesn't exist, so i have to accept it and move on(but it still bugs me).

    That's what I have done, too. No point in pursuing this hopeless endeavor.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    the collection contradicts that and it seems that it should have been easier to get.

    This is the bit that bothers me, esp when taken together with some of the other issues with this ep's rewards. It just seems like something went wrong . . .

  • AlexxxDelta.1806AlexxxDelta.1806 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seeing arguements against numbers that range from significant to acceptable statistical sample (since we can only estimate the drop rate), should surprise me.

    But somehow it really doesn't. It's expected at this point.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    Seeing arguements against numbers that range from significant to acceptable statistical sample (since we can only estimate the drop rate), should surprise me.

    But somehow it really doesn't. It's expected at this point.

    That's exactly the same way I feel about seeing posts in threads from posters who clearly haven't actually read and understood the posts in the thread ;)

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    If someone really wants a multitude of shots at it they can probably reroll characters through the map complete as there's no hearts nor required combat. You'd need a squad with trees marked for maximum effectiveness.

    I still think there's an extra zero or two in the drop rate (as I stated on page 1) : it should have leveled out at a few hundred gold or so at best , especially given you need 3 different armor weights for the collection. Thousands of gold is an order of magnitude larger than what is reasonable ; if less than 1/1000 (0.1%) then that might need a decimal or two shaved off. For something so heavily gated I would say 1% or 1/100 is already low.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    If someone really wants a multitude of shots at it they can probably reroll characters through the map complete as there's no hearts nor required combat. You'd need a squad with trees marked for maximum effectiveness.

    I still think there's an extra zero or two in the drop rate (as I stated on page 1) : it should have leveled out at a few hundred gold or so at best , especially given you need 3 different armor weights for the collection. Thousands of gold is an order of magnitude larger than what is reasonable ; if less than 1/1000 (0.1%) then that might need a decimal or two shaved off. For something so heavily gated I would say 1% or 1/100 is already low.

    I've been taking my keyrunner through it each week just bc why not and it is a very easy map to complete. But even if you got really efficient with it and ran toons through it for several hours a day you probably wouldn't be getting enough artifacts to meaningfully increase your chances, based on the limited data we have so far . . .

    And yes, the current situation remains ridiculous . . .

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2019

    The Khan-Ur skins.
    Yes, it's plural, because it's 3 separate skins even though they all look the same...

    In the meantime they doubled the drop rate and guess what, when I checked yesterday you could buy one box (meaning one skin) for around 8000g. I think it has dropped for 3000g already again by now, not sure though. Still it's like 2 to 3 times a legendary...

    Now let's just assume for a second all of this is acceptable. Then still why are those skins bound into the Merchandise Collector achievement?
    It has NOTHING to do with "mechandise"...!?
    It's not Part of the Metal Legion event. Not in the slightest.

    Any achievement, really ANY HARD achievement can be done by hard work within a more or less conceivable amount of time. Envoy Herald, 50/50 HOM, Fractal Goddess, GWAMM, the most time consuming achievements / titles all can be obtained if only you are willing to work hard and consistently on them. But here is this lose mini achievement, making zero sense, being tied to nothing more than a single LS episode and it comes with some absurd RNG and / or a heavy financial investment.

    And what for? 5 AP and a T-Shirt skin...

    And for those who want to say: But you can buy the T-Shirt skin with chilis! - Well yes, you can. And guess why you can do that.
    It's like making a straw man argument: Hey you don't need that achievement, you can buy the skin anyway.
    It's basically just there to distract from the fact that this achievement is a kitty kitten.

    So, what could be done: Simply remove the Khan-Ur skins out of that achievement. Thanks.

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    So, what could be done: Simply remove the Khan-Ur skins out of that achievement. Thanks.

    You could reduce all your post to only this last phrase. I agree to remove those skins from the collection, but they should stay with a very low RNG drop chance cus i believe "rarities" like this is what motivates some players (like me) to revisit old maps and do unrewarding metas.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hynax.9536 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    So, what could be done: Simply remove the Khan-Ur skins out of that achievement. Thanks.

    You could reduce all your post to only this last phrase. I agree to remove those skins from the collection, but they should stay with a very low RNG drop chance cus i believe "rarities" like this is what motivates some players (like me) to revisit old maps and do unrewarding metas.

    Yes i could, but then someone else pops up and wants me to clarify / explain why and so on. So i posted this wall of text to explain why this achivement is baloney.

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    With the ruckus being made about this achievment in the forum the last days anyone wanting you to clarify/explain this request is clearly a troll. But well lets hope that the more we ask, more chance we have to change something. :/

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement. The Charr helm skins belong in that collection just as much as any of the others.

  • ^Also, I have the T-shirt, and did neither the collection, nor bought it from the vendor. (WvW easy PvE-centric Dailies are your friend.)

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement.

    So everything outside of meta achievements can be totally wack because that's how you look at it.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    The Charr helm skins belong in that collection just as much as any of the others.

    Did you ever play "odd one out"? I suppose not.

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    ^Also, I have the T-shirt, and did neither the collection, nor bought it from the vendor. (WvW easy PvE-centric Dailies are your friend.)

    You seem not to understand. I don't want the T-Shirt. I want the achievement to be doable without rng luck.