Yet another condi thief thread — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Yet another condi thief thread

No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

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Comments

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Even some thieves are not happy with being forced to play condi, yet here we are.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    Maybe if anet actually manned up instead of being scared of the community and buff daggers and pistols thieves would have some good power dueling builds

  • I'm really salty for the CI removal. It was the bread and butter for my power chrono rupt build for a long time. CI and Power Block + chrono were the things that finally made rupt build a thing. And it got obliterated after being abused for a few weeks by the CONDI idiotic Mirage.

    I never paid too much mind with anet's balancing because I can accept that it can't be perfect. But this CI solutionwas completely idiotic.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2019

    @DavyMcB.1603 said:
    I'm really salty for the CI removal. It was the bread and butter for my power chrono rupt build for a long time. CI and Power Block + chrono were the things that finally made rupt build a thing. And it got obliterated after being abused for a few weeks by the CONDI idiotic Mirage.

    I never paid too much mind with anet's balancing because I can accept that it can't be perfect. But this CI solutionwas completely idiotic.

    Dude. Look at it from that angle - chrono removed from the game, then more the only good traits for competitive game modes were deleted even if it was alrdy trash.
    From being the most versatile and class with the highest build diversity it was grounded to all other classes to be trash and have only 1 build - condi mirage. \o/
    But hey, condi bs is da wae now, except for scourge being given chrono treatment, a bit of it :)

  • Press 2 dodge press 2 again can kill the majority of builds. This is worse than condi mes was.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    Wish condi had more....sparkle to their hard hitting skills. With power builds, at least they have a decent chunk of big animations for their important skills - holographic shockwave is extremely noticeable.

    Meanwhile, we have condi thief applying the majority of its damage from a relatively quick gap closer that's pretty hard to see. Do they even lose stacks of their venoms if they miss? Where's the punishment if I dodge the initial engage?

  • @rowdy.5107 said:
    more tears from people that don't know how to properly deal with condi classes.
    Typical poster: "I don't want to change my build to adapt to the new changes, so im going to come to the forums and cry about it."

    cool

  • rowdy.5107rowdy.5107 Member ✭✭✭

    When you fight somebody that actually knows how to play against a condi thief. You cant scratch them. You burst.. They cleanse, they heal and now we are back to square 1 with a fresh (insert job here) and a dwindled down condi thief.
    Learn to play the new meta and quit crying about something that is EASILY countered. Anet is doing a great job balancing everything for everybody. Not just for YOU. always remember that.

  • rowdy.5107rowdy.5107 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    When you fight somebody that actually knows how to play against a condi thief. You cant scratch them. You burst.. They cleanse, they heal and now we are back to square 1 with a fresh (insert job here) and a dwindled down condi thief.
    Learn to play the new meta and quit crying about something that is EASILY countered. Anet is doing a great job balancing everything for everybody. Not just for YOU. always remember that.

    lost it when you said anet is doing gr8 job at balancing, while holo still didnt get its legs broken

    that's YOUR personal opinion tho. most likely based on the class you play. Im sure quite a few people would disagree with you. Holo is the jack of all trades. But its not the greatest at anything like all the other classes. You put a Warrior or a Guard against a holo and that holo gets splatted pretty easy, right?

  • Holo shockwave range nerf is a pretty solid nerf. The 20% dmg reduc doesn't effect dps that much but it's still something. Plus rifle holo has very little cleanse.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    i didn't post so long for poison thief, but i recently saw some one who's completely trash at it and managed to lose against a warrior with only shake it off multiple times
    yet he managed to stay in plat...i'm really really surprised...

    also saw another one who literally don't know what heal is and he's gold 3 lol...i mean come on..

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    So basically I can hit v long enough to win every match.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    i didn't post so long for poison thief, but i recently saw some one who's completely trash at it and managed to lose against a warrior with only shake it off multiple times
    yet he managed to stay in plat...i'm really really surprised...

    also saw another one who literally don't know what heal is and he's gold 3 lol...i mean come on..

    That's gw2 ranking at its finest

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They seem to be able to kill the other problems (holo, spb).

    Nerf holo and spb, then nerf condi thief.

    Until then, nope.

    It is a needed element.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    They seem to be able to kill the other problems (holo, spb).

    Nerf holo and spb, then nerf condi thief.

    Until then, nope.

    It is a needed element.

    out of all the builds i play, condi thief is the only thing i can trust myself to win duel with holo/spb and by win i mean force them off node, becouse to actually kill them they would have to overstay anyways.

  • Don Vega Van Kain.9842Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    When you fight somebody that actually knows how to play against a condi thief. You cant scratch them. You burst.. They cleanse, they heal and now we are back to square 1 with a fresh (insert job here) and a dwindled down condi thief.
    Learn to play the new meta and quit crying about something that is EASILY countered. Anet is doing a great job balancing everything for everybody. Not just for YOU. always remember that.

    Really, it make me laugh everytime someone says the "get gud" formula. :)

    Sure, i enjoy playing againt condi thief in some professions and see them runing away or make the carpet on the floor BUT

    you say that we have to clean, to heal and face the condi thief.... ok.

    By the breasts of ishtar, do you really think everytime i gonna face a condi thief i have my cleans utility skills ready ?? my heal ready ? Noooo sir, do you think a thief Gonna say "Heyyyy, i'm comming to break ya neck" ?? a thief take u from behind :astonished: (no problem, it's he's job) but you don't have time to react that you have 15 stacks of poison in you and as i say, if you have no dodge and your utility skills in cd so...i can assure you, your done.

    Other point, why in hell have i to change my build to counter just one build XD ???? there's 4 others players with him dude.

    I dare to believe that you understand now even if i guess, your a thief main.

    Troll since 1982.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    When you fight somebody that actually knows how to play against a condi thief. You cant scratch them. You burst.. They cleanse, they heal and now we are back to square 1 with a fresh (insert job here) and a dwindled down condi thief.
    Learn to play the new meta and quit crying about something that is EASILY countered. Anet is doing a great job balancing everything for everybody. Not just for YOU. always remember that.

    Really, it make me laugh everytime someone says the "get gud" formula. :)

    Sure, i enjoy playing againt condi thief in some professions and see them runing away or make the carpet on the floor BUT

    you say that we have to clean, to heal and face the condi thief.... ok.

    By the breasts of ishtar, do you really think everytime i gonna face a condi thief i have my cleans utility skills ready ?? my heal ready ? Noooo sir, do you think a thief Gonna say "Heyyyy, i'm comming to break ya neck" ?? a thief take u from behind :astonished: (no problem, it's he's job) but you don't have time to react that you have 15 stacks of poison in you and as i say, if you have no dodge and your utility skills in cd so...i can assure you, your done.

    Other point, why in hell have i to change my build to counter just one build XD ???? there's 4 others players with him dude.

    I dare to believe that you understand now even if i guess, your a thief main.

    So you expect to win 1v1 fights with critical skills on cooldown against a fresh opponent?

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    When you fight somebody that actually knows how to play against a condi thief. You cant scratch them. You burst.. They cleanse, they heal and now we are back to square 1 with a fresh (insert job here) and a dwindled down condi thief.
    Learn to play the new meta and quit crying about something that is EASILY countered. Anet is doing a great job balancing everything for everybody. Not just for YOU. always remember that.

    Really, it make me laugh everytime someone says the "get gud" formula. :)

    Sure, i enjoy playing againt condi thief in some professions and see them runing away or make the carpet on the floor BUT

    you say that we have to clean, to heal and face the condi thief.... ok.

    By the breasts of ishtar, do you really think everytime i gonna face a condi thief i have my cleans utility skills ready ?? my heal ready ? Noooo sir, do you think a thief Gonna say "Heyyyy, i'm comming to break ya neck" ?? a thief take u from behind :astonished: (no problem, it's he's job) but you don't have time to react that you have 15 stacks of poison in you and as i say, if you have no dodge and your utility skills in cd so...i can assure you, your done.

    Other point, why in hell have i to change my build to counter just one build XD ???? there's 4 others players with him dude.

    I dare to believe that you understand now even if i guess, your a thief main.

    So you expect to win 1v1 fights with critical skills on cooldown against a fresh opponent?

    there is a difference between winning or having any chance whatsoever of surviving.
    if you dont have a cleanse its 0,5s you dieed lol lol you died.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    You don't expect to win against power builds if you don't have any CC breaks/evades/Things-You-Need-To-Beat-Power-Builds left. Dunno why it should be any different when fighting condi.

  • condi thief is absolutely ridiculously OP right now, in 1 steal and dodge it can apply up to 6 different conditions and forces you to burn through most of your condicleanses while they just port back with sword 2 just to come back in again, i mean who at Anet thought that this didnt deserve a BIG nerf???? Hell I'd rather have CI mirage over this garbage. Makes me wonder if Anet actually wants pvp to die cus they're going in the good direction!

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    I say when other specs get de-powercrept than nerf condi thief to ground but not before cuz it's really no different than all the other op BS on most of the specs meta builds these days lol

  • Don Vega Van Kain.9842Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    You don't expect to win against power builds if you don't have any CC breaks/evades/Things-You-Need-To-Beat-Power-Builds left. Dunno why it should be any different when fighting condi.

    Coz with power builds u can fight back, with condi thief guess what ? nooooo (2- dodge-2-dodge....and repeat maybe a steal if u want to think ur perfect)
    2-3 first sec, ur health bar is almost gone :'(

    And we're talking about condi thief not ALL the condi builds. ;)

    Troll since 1982.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    You don't expect to win against power builds if you don't have any CC breaks/evades/Things-You-Need-To-Beat-Power-Builds left. Dunno why it should be any different when fighting condi.

    Coz with power builds u can fight back, with condi thief guess what ? nooooo (2- dodge-2-dodge....and repeat maybe a steal if u want to think ur perfect)
    2-3 first sec, ur health bar is almost gone :'(

    And we're talking about condi thief not ALL the condi builds. ;)

    A fresh power build engaging you has the same CD resource advantage. You can 'fight back' against them just as much. Which is...not much, but still.

    But if you'd like to keep things to thief - cool. If a fresh thief engages you and you have nothing left, you die anyway, and likely faster than a condi setup will take to murder you. because powerburst.

  • Don Vega Van Kain.9842Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    You don't expect to win against power builds if you don't have any CC breaks/evades/Things-You-Need-To-Beat-Power-Builds left. Dunno why it should be any different when fighting condi.

    Coz with power builds u can fight back, with condi thief guess what ? nooooo (2- dodge-2-dodge....and repeat maybe a steal if u want to think ur perfect)
    2-3 first sec, ur health bar is almost gone :'(

    And we're talking about condi thief not ALL the condi builds. ;)

    A fresh power build engaging you has the same CD resource advantage. You can 'fight back' against them just as much. Which is...not much, but still.

    But if you'd like to keep things to thief - cool. If a fresh thief engages you and you have nothing left, you die anyway, and likely faster than a condi setup will take to murder you. because powerburst.

    really u miss the point there.

    ok, we gonna speak just about the thief as u want.

    A thief power build (sword), hit u with the 2 +3 and go back to his previous place. so u have just this 1 or 2 hits if he use the 3. (ur health bar don't move after)

    A thief condi build HIT u with 2 as the power build (not the same power we agree) dodge, another dodge (maybe a 3) and 2 again..... so he hit you and left you with a ton of cond.......ohh boy i don't even want to explain after this.....make ur idea. :/

    If u can't see the différence, i can't help.

    Troll since 1982.

  • Vaga.5174Vaga.5174 Member ✭✭✭

    Condi thief needs to seriously be addressed.

    There is good reason that there is a huge increase in them in ranked play especially in mid/high plat i'm seeing far more regularly a 4 thief game (2 on each side). In which instantly my interest in the game is lost (I still try but know it wont be a fun game).

    Yes i know condi thief should beat my class if played well, its the fact that it doesn't even have to be played at all well to beat, i believe myself to be, a fairly competent player. And as someone who looks at most 1v1 situations and tries to adapt to see how i can improve my gameplay, i find it almost impossible to do this vs this spec. There is 0 telegraph to dodge, so you pretty much have to dodge blind to avoid and instant array of conditions to applied to you and if you dont, you pretty much are forced to cleanse as those condis alone can take a good chunk of hp without the thief really using anything.

    The poison buffs have been overbuffed, where pretty much anything gives you poison, so you suffer from the -33% hp gain and a pretty huge amount of damage as they stack a crazy amount. The worst of this is even if you lose half of your life you can never really recover, as you almost always will have some poison on you, and the mobility of thief doesn't allow you to even kite well. Hell you cant even block as they can just use shortbow to get unblockable poison AND interrupt if you have poison on you. Madness!

    1 thief in this spec is bad, 2 in one game is just laughably unfun, and i play the game mode to have fun. I dont mind losing so long as i feel i have a chance to do something. Im giving PvP a wider berth as almost every game has 1-2 of this and its just no fun to play against.

    Hell if you are a condi thief and want to give some tips on how to deal with you in this state that would be nice, without the usual unhelpful comments of git gud/change class etc.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condi thief needs the emergency disabling treatment Chaotic Interruption got.

    Just steal alone is an instant cast, instant effect, no animation attack that wollops you with 7.5k in poison damage and enough confusion stacks to cause 1k damage per skill use. And with Spider Venom on that goes up to 9.5k in poison damage. All that on what is literally the easiest skill to land in the entire game.

    And that's not even counting how abusive and degenerate Sword 2>Dodge>Sword 2 is.

    Condi thief if it's going to be allowed to exist needs to be reoriented aways from getting 90% of their damage on traits which apply to any weapon set, especially away from some thing like thief Sword which has too much synergy with condition hit and run tactics, and focused into specific weapon sets with specific skill shots. Lotus training boosting condition damage is fine but it shouldn't be an attack in it's own right. Staff Staff has a similar problem with Bounding Dodger.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    No one appears to be listening. How did we get the CI nerf? This game is broke af.

    It will get nerfs. But we don't need CI either. Mirage is still broken as. Let the clean-up continue.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Do y'all not have a support or run FB on your teams, at all? Literally Firebrand puts this meme build to rest and they have no choice but to run the whole time.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    You don't expect to win against power builds if you don't have any CC breaks/evades/Things-You-Need-To-Beat-Power-Builds left. Dunno why it should be any different when fighting condi.

    Coz with power builds u can fight back, with condi thief guess what ? nooooo (2- dodge-2-dodge....and repeat maybe a steal if u want to think ur perfect)
    2-3 first sec, ur health bar is almost gone :'(

    And we're talking about condi thief not ALL the condi builds. ;)

    A fresh power build engaging you has the same CD resource advantage. You can 'fight back' against them just as much. Which is...not much, but still.

    But if you'd like to keep things to thief - cool. If a fresh thief engages you and you have nothing left, you die anyway, and likely faster than a condi setup will take to murder you. because powerburst.

    really u miss the point there.

    ok, we gonna speak just about the thief as u want.

    A thief power build (sword), hit u with the 2 +3 and go back to his previous place. so u have just this 1 or 2 hits if he use the 3. (ur health bar don't move after)

    A thief condi build HIT u with 2 as the power build (not the same power we agree) dodge, another dodge (maybe a 3) and 2 again..... so he hit you and left you with a ton of cond.......ohh boy i don't even want to explain after this.....make ur idea. :/

    If u can't see the différence, i can't help.

    So what are you doing when that thief is using #2 and dodging to use impaling. You are able to dodge and block and move as well. You are not a training golem.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Let's not forget if a condi thief is using his dodges to spread condi he is using his dodges up and has to use his global resources (ini) or utilities for any type of sustain ex being sw2 or shadow step which are limited as well.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    Do y'all not have a support or run FB on your teams, at all? Literally Firebrand puts this meme build to rest and they have no choice but to run the whole time.

    In ranked? NO. Because it's RANKED! And if you do run a firebrand in a duo, odds are that is when the game decides to have you get double support firebrand every single game. And even if it isn't a support is almost worthless if it's teammates aren't worth supporting.

    You can still play Firebrand+Necro or Rev or W/E. And you'll win the fight. But once you hit competent opponents they'll rotate around every fight involving you if you run a dedicated team fight composition like that.

    I've played 112 games so far this season, 90% of it plat 2. I've maybe seen 2 support firebrand on either team in actual ranked. They're dead. Support is dead in ranked on NA. They don't exist. Support is not a good way to climb ranked.

    Literally the single best way to climb ranked is to duo queue with a 1vX side noder and a damage dealer who can function as both a +1 roamer and can a team fight with their damage alone. And that is what nearly everyone who are trying does.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    You don't expect to win against power builds if you don't have any CC breaks/evades/Things-You-Need-To-Beat-Power-Builds left. Dunno why it should be any different when fighting condi.

    Coz with power builds u can fight back, with condi thief guess what ? nooooo (2- dodge-2-dodge....and repeat maybe a steal if u want to think ur perfect)
    2-3 first sec, ur health bar is almost gone :'(

    And we're talking about condi thief not ALL the condi builds. ;)

    A fresh power build engaging you has the same CD resource advantage. You can 'fight back' against them just as much. Which is...not much, but still.

    But if you'd like to keep things to thief - cool. If a fresh thief engages you and you have nothing left, you die anyway, and likely faster than a condi setup will take to murder you. because powerburst.

    really u miss the point there.

    ok, we gonna speak just about the thief as u want.

    A thief power build (sword), hit u with the 2 +3 and go back to his previous place. so u have just this 1 or 2 hits if he use the 3. (ur health bar don't move after)

    A thief condi build HIT u with 2 as the power build (not the same power we agree) dodge, another dodge (maybe a 3) and 2 again..... so he hit you and left you with a ton of cond.......ohh boy i don't even want to explain after this.....make ur idea. :/

    If u can't see the différence, i can't help.

    Because you're such a gentleman, I gave it some testing.

    Condi1 - indes golem

    Power1 - indes golem

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/630883044085202944/unknown.png ~7500 total. Takes ~5 ticks for condi dmg to reach the same amount of dmg. Let's just call it five seconds. I used the poison, then infil + steal + dodge (one time), then retreated

    Power2 - light golem

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/630883700426407974/unknown.png - 10.5k total. Couldn't be bothered to guestimate how many seconds it takes for condi to reach this amount of dmg.

    Crossed out the few AAs I forgot to stow cancel in the power tests. Added up everything for both - including the pwr damage for condi, and the little condi dmg for the pwr tests.

    So, obviously, power has better burst whereas condi comes out ahead in the long run. However, immob from Infil strike is only 1 sec long, and the condi thief has to dedicate a utility slot to a poison. Aaand if they're dodging 2-3 times, well. Yeah.

    Builds used were both metabattle (for the condi thief - DrD, deadly arts, trickery) and godsofpvp.net (for the pwr build - acro, trickery, deadly arts (with dmg on steal instead of poison)

    TLDR - l2p, and I'm going to bust a lung laughing if someone tries to bring up 'but stealth approach!!11!!1'

  • @Curennos.9307 said:

    Because you're such a gentleman, I gave it some testing.
    Condi1 - indes golem

    Power1 - indes golem

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/630883044085202944/unknown.png ~7500 total. Takes ~5 ticks for condi dmg to reach the same amount of dmg. Let's just call it five seconds. I used the poison, then infil + steal + dodge (one time), then retreated

    Power2 - light golem

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/630883700426407974/unknown.png - 10.5k total. Couldn't be bothered to guestimate how many seconds it takes for condi to reach this amount of dmg.

    Crossed out the few AAs I forgot to stow cancel in the power tests. Added up everything for both - including the pwr damage for condi, and the little condi dmg for the pwr tests.
    So, obviously, power has better burst whereas condi comes out ahead in the long run. However, immob from Infil strike is only 1 sec long, and the condi thief has to dedicate a utility slot to a poison. Aaand if they're dodging 2-3 times, well. Yeah.
    Builds used were both metabattle (for the condi thief - DrD, deadly arts, trickery) and godsofpvp.net (for the pwr build - acro, trickery, deadly arts (with dmg on steal instead of poison)
    TLDR - l2p, and I'm going to bust a lung laughing if someone tries to bring up 'but stealth approach!!11!!1'

    Man, i'm not a golem, i've got feelings :D
    Nahh, u have to test it in combat when i saw a power thief, i know i can face him, how he gonna moves, i can block dodge heal.....etc

    When i saw a condi thief, i know i have a monkey jumping everywhere evading/dodging my hits and runing away till i fall with condi, a real combat have nothing to do with a golem.

    Also u miss an important thing, with condi thief, u have -33 healing effectiveness (the golem can't tell you that)

    Nb : in my 5th others accounts, i play condi thief now to do my daily fast.......yep i know :s

    Troll since 1982.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2019

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    Because you're such a gentleman, I gave it some testing.
    Condi1 - indes golem

    Power1 - indes golem

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/630883044085202944/unknown.png ~7500 total. Takes ~5 ticks for condi dmg to reach the same amount of dmg. Let's just call it five seconds. I used the poison, then infil + steal + dodge (one time), then retreated

    Power2 - light golem

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/630883700426407974/unknown.png - 10.5k total. Couldn't be bothered to guestimate how many seconds it takes for condi to reach this amount of dmg.

    Crossed out the few AAs I forgot to stow cancel in the power tests. Added up everything for both - including the pwr damage for condi, and the little condi dmg for the pwr tests.
    So, obviously, power has better burst whereas condi comes out ahead in the long run. However, immob from Infil strike is only 1 sec long, and the condi thief has to dedicate a utility slot to a poison. Aaand if they're dodging 2-3 times, well. Yeah.
    Builds used were both metabattle (for the condi thief - DrD, deadly arts, trickery) and godsofpvp.net (for the pwr build - acro, trickery, deadly arts (with dmg on steal instead of poison)
    TLDR - l2p, and I'm going to bust a lung laughing if someone tries to bring up 'but stealth approach!!11!!1'

    Man, i'm not a golem, i've got feelings :D
    Nahh, u have to test it in combat when i saw a power thief, i know i can face him, how he gonna moves, i can block dodge heal.....etc

    When i saw a condi thief, i know i have a monkey jumping everywhere evading/dodging my hits and runing away till i fall with condi, a real combat have nothing to do with a golem.

    Also u miss an important thing, with condi thief, u have -33 healing effectiveness (the golem can't tell you that)

    Nb : in my 5th others accounts, i play condi thief now to do my daily fast.......yep i know :s

    What is preventing you from blocking, dodging and healing against a condi thief? Poison doesn't completely negate healing. You even have more time to react to the damage because it is over time. What is preventing you from learning and predicting what a condi thief will do? They're far more predictable than a power thief. They even have a single skill you need to mitigate - infiltrator's strike. That's it. Dodge that and their burst is screwed.

    Just pretend the condi thief is a power thief and you have to dodge their engage. xD

    Edit: Really, m'dude, if you want someone to log in game and spam sword 2 at you, I will do it.

  • @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    You don't expect to win against power builds if you don't have any CC breaks/evades/Things-You-Need-To-Beat-Power-Builds left. Dunno why it should be any different when fighting condi.

    Coz with power builds u can fight back, with condi thief guess what ? nooooo (2- dodge-2-dodge....and repeat maybe a steal if u want to think ur perfect)
    2-3 first sec, ur health bar is almost gone :'(

    And we're talking about condi thief not ALL the condi builds. ;)

    A fresh power build engaging you has the same CD resource advantage. You can 'fight back' against them just as much. Which is...not much, but still.

    But if you'd like to keep things to thief - cool. If a fresh thief engages you and you have nothing left, you die anyway, and likely faster than a condi setup will take to murder you. because powerburst.

    really u miss the point there.

    ok, we gonna speak just about the thief as u want.

    A thief power build (sword), hit u with the 2 +3 and go back to his previous place. so u have just this 1 or 2 hits if he use the 3. (ur health bar don't move after)

    A thief condi build HIT u with 2 as the power build (not the same power we agree) dodge, another dodge (maybe a 3) and 2 again..... so he hit you and left you with a ton of cond.......ohh boy i don't even want to explain after this.....make ur idea. :/

    If u can't see the différence, i can't help.

    So what are you doing when that thief is using #2 and dodging to use impaling. You are able to dodge and block and move as well. You are not a training golem.

    Right? Its very funny how many players let me use sword 2, back n forth, through a wall, until they are dead.

    Cover the sword 2 return spots, kite onto and off no port spots. Whatever you do, dont be a training golem 🤣

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Condi thief needs the emergency disabling treatment Chaotic Interruption got.

    Just steal alone is an instant cast, instant effect, no animation attack that wollops you with 7.5k in poison damage and enough confusion stacks to cause 1k damage per skill use. And with Spider Venom on that goes up to 9.5k in poison damage. All that on what is literally the easiest skill to land in the entire game.

    And that's not even counting how abusive and degenerate Sword 2>Dodge>Sword 2 is.

    Condi thief if it's going to be allowed to exist needs to be reoriented aways from getting 90% of their damage on traits which apply to any weapon set, especially away from some thing like thief Sword which has too much synergy with condition hit and run tactics, and focused into specific weapon sets with specific skill shots. Lotus training boosting condition damage is fine but it shouldn't be an attack in it's own right. Staff Staff has a similar problem with Bounding Dodger.

    Condi proc traits are not only problematic because they can apply to any skill from any weapon, but also because you cannot dodge/block/invuln them or do anything to counter them. If you avoid it, it will still be up, waiting to proc whenever you inevitably get hit by something and telegraphs do not matter. It leads to a very lazy playstyle, especially with sword 2 being such a safe move. Such a safe skill should never have a big packet of damage attached to it.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @verskore.4312 said:
    condi thief is absolutely ridiculously OP right now, in 1 steal and dodge it can apply up to 6 different conditions and forces you to burn through most of your condicleanses while they just port back with sword 2 just to come back in again, i mean who at Anet thought that this didnt deserve a BIG nerf???? Hell I'd rather have CI mirage over this garbage. Makes me wonder if Anet actually wants pvp to die cus they're going in the good direction!

    or switch to water attunement and pretend nothing happened, same tactic I was using with CI...

    Im with the people who point out that others are clinging onto older bulds.. we wanted a meta shake up and now we have it.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • The only thing that's annoying about condo thief is the choking gas proc/ daggerstorm in choking gas. 90% of thieves are easily read so anticipating the sword 2 into steal is super easy, yeah they'll Dodge after for more condis but a condi DD spamming dodges is an easy kill. The only classes that I struggle against Condi thieves are Mesmers and necros. Most other classes have plenty of ways to pressure thieves into blowing shadow step for the stun break and removing their only stun break.

  • birdboy.6509birdboy.6509 Member ✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    While I agree that condi thief could be toned down, bear in mind that since scourge got gutted condi thief is the only thing that is keeping condi mes, holosmith, and rampage warrior from being totally dominant.
    If your not one of those three classes be careful what you wish for you because you may not like what happens if this spec gets hit too hard

  • @Vaga.5174 said:
    Condi thief needs to seriously be addressed.

    There is good reason that there is a huge increase in them in ranked play especially in mid/high plat i'm seeing far more regularly a 4 thief game (2 on each side). In which instantly my interest in the game is lost (I still try but know it wont be a fun game).

    Yes i know condi thief should beat my class if played well, its the fact that it doesn't even have to be played at all well to beat, i believe myself to be, a fairly competent player. And as someone who looks at most 1v1 situations and tries to adapt to see how i can improve my gameplay, i find it almost impossible to do this vs this spec. There is 0 telegraph to dodge, so you pretty much have to dodge blind to avoid and instant array of conditions to applied to you and if you dont, you pretty much are forced to cleanse as those condis alone can take a good chunk of hp without the thief really using anything.

    The poison buffs have been overbuffed, where pretty much anything gives you poison, so you suffer from the -33% hp gain and a pretty huge amount of damage as they stack a crazy amount. The worst of this is even if you lose half of your life you can never really recover, as you almost always will have some poison on you, and the mobility of thief doesn't allow you to even kite well. Hell you cant even block as they can just use shortbow to get unblockable poison AND interrupt if you have poison on you. Madness!

    1 thief in this spec is bad, 2 in one game is just laughably unfun, and i play the game mode to have fun. I dont mind losing so long as i feel i have a chance to do something. Im giving PvP a wider berth as almost every game has 1-2 of this and its just no fun to play against.

    Hell if you are a condi thief and want to give some tips on how to deal with you in this state that would be nice, without the usual unhelpful comments of git gud/change class etc.

    I'd rather fight Condi thieves than warriors tbh. It's not less skillful than popping rampage and two shotting just about every class.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love how this community tries to pretend condi thief is somehow different than any otherr favored specs in this game and their cheese builds lol condi thief fits right in with fire weavers, boonbeast, burn guards, scourge condi spam (kinda fixed) spellbreakers,mirages and the super class holo's lol. Seriously what game are u guys playing that condi thief sticks out?
    Is it the bias game?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649

    Holos are more of a pubstomper build in ranked than anything else. I'm not saying that they don't have several skills/traits that should be nerfed, but there are plenty of ways for every class to fight against them. On that note, you say you play several classes but which ones are you the best at/main?

    Also, aren't you fairly new to the game? Why do you speak so much on balance if you are relatively inexperienced?

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Holo is broken but i prefer to fight them over any Condithief. It is insane how low skill rewarding Condithief is.

    Meanwhile dp is....

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649

    Holos are more of a pubstomper build in ranked than anything else. I'm not saying that they don't have several skills/traits that should be nerfed, but there are plenty of ways for every class to fight against them. On that note, you say you play several classes but which ones are you the best at/main?

    Also, aren't you fairly new to the game? Why do you speak so much on balance if you are relatively inexperienced?

    Im best at mesmer since its my main, I also do rather well on condi thief and hybrid ( i think its just broken ) and do good on warrior ( dont know what im doing war is just overpowered )
    you dont have to be an expert to know that mayby after months of playing mesmer i should become better and better at it right? then i first tried warrior and it was easy mode.
    Played this game for around half a year? but I have been playing other competitive games for 8-10 years and its not too hard to notice whats clearly overperforming or not.
    If you want "veterans" to speak for pvp then you will have 5 people talking max and thats it. And then there will just be bias all around that you have shown.
    For me personally condi thief doesnt matter much, I only play it to troll around when i dont feel like trying and wanna get quick win.
    and on my main condi or any other thief doesnt change much since you lose to thiefs anyways.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649

    Holos are more of a pubstomper build in ranked than anything else. I'm not saying that they don't have several skills/traits that should be nerfed, but there are plenty of ways for every class to fight against them. On that note, you say you play several classes but which ones are you the best at/main?

    Also, aren't you fairly new to the game? Why do you speak so much on balance if you are relatively inexperienced?

    Im best at mesmer since its my main, I also do rather well on condi thief and hybrid ( i think its just broken ) and do good on warrior ( dont know what im doing war is just overpowered )
    you dont have to be an expert to know that mayby after months of playing mesmer i should become better and better at it right? then i first tried warrior and it was easy mode.
    Played this game for around half a year? but I have been playing other competitive games for 8-10 years and its not too hard to notice whats clearly overperforming or not.
    If you want "veterans" to speak for pvp then you will have 5 people talking max and thats it. And then there will just be bias all around that you have shown.
    For me personally condi thief doesnt matter much, I only play it to troll around when i dont feel like trying and wanna get quick win.
    and on my main condi or any other thief doesnt change much since you lose to thiefs anyways.

    So all these classes are OP but mesmer and more so mirage isnt? Or do u think mirage is op to? Just curious.

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