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Soothing Stone is out of date.

Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

Comments

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    I want block on it like shelter tbh

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    I want block on it like shelter tbh

    Not gonna happen, Jalis is designed to be hit all the time. They should just keep it up with the content and buff things accordingly.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:
    In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

    There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

    Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

    Firstly, soothing stone also provides retalliation on top of heal+condi cleanse, which is already more cleanse than what the skill you compared with had (mending).

    Secondly, revenant will always have two heals. Please take into consideration the class as a whole before asking for buffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skill is OP/adequate, but comparing it to other classes is just....unfair.

    A slight cd reduction would be nice tho 😊

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

    There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

    Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

    Firstly, soothing stone also provides retalliation on top of heal+condi cleanse, which is already more cleanse than what the skill you compared with had (mending).

    Secondly, revenant will always have two heals. Please take into consideration the class as a whole before asking for buffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skill is OP/adequate, but comparing it to other classes is just....unfair.

    A slight cd reduction would be nice tho 😊

    YOU SAYING REV HEALS ARE OP!!! but in other words!!!
    Yeah You did!! you did that!!!

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2019

    The reason why Soothing Stone is extremely underwhelming is because the typical healing power scaling is the same across all professions, so improving it doesn't really make it any better, the cooldown is really high for how little it does and Dwarf alone relies a lot of tactics that it's own heal can't really keep up but we can't have a lower cooldown because it would break the flow of uniformity also with the other skills minus Ventari as an exception due to the mechanic.

    All of the Revenant heals include some sort of special benefit that makes them very distinguishable and keep them going in the role they need to exceed, say Empowering Misery is extremely powerful under condition pressure, giving up to 10k healing without any healing power and let alone small amount of conditions already makes a joke out of Soothing Stone.

    By experience, Soothing Stone is very often used under huge pressure to make it worthwhile and this is where the idea of giving barrier for each condition cleansed comes in which would make the barrier useful for how small the heal and long the CD is, but due to how vulnerable revenant is to conditions without Corruption, if the skill was to work like consume conditions/Empowering Misery by affecting all conditions, it would add a new level of play while giving Jalis another buff it needs. Very often people heal and lose all of their health already because it's a long cast and mobility is limited.

    A similar to Call of the Dwarf earning 586 (0.15) barrier per condition removed for a total of theoretically 14 conditions to be removed since it's possible with stability in a perfect scenario by baseline will give 8,204 barrier total, that would be extremely healthy change for Jalis as well and make Revenant less dependant of Corruptions against condition pressure.

    Compared Empowering Misery theoretically maximum heal of 12,944, this seems like a very fair change.

    To finally top off my statement, it does have 2 heals but again with large cooldowns and it doesn't have the option of having any invulnerable frames unless Glint is chosen which is one of the reason why it's sought after in the meta. Especially against conditions.

    As someone who always "fully" heal almost every time with Infuse Light, I can confidently say that it is one of the best heal in the game. Maybe overpowered but a necessary skill for Revenant right now to not melt so quickly. Stowing is always an option too.

    But those changes would definitely not cause any issue towards balance, Barrier is only important in the heat of the moment and that's about what Jalis needs to not make the heal so worthless.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Vasdamas Anklast.1607Vasdamas Anklast.1607 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

    There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

    Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

    Firstly, soothing stone also provides retalliation on top of heal+condi cleanse, which is already more cleanse than what the skill you compared with had (mending).

    Secondly, revenant will always have two heals. Please take into consideration the class as a whole before asking for buffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skill is OP/adequate, but comparing it to other classes is just....unfair.

    A slight cd reduction would be nice tho 😊

    UNFAIR YOU SAY???

    Okay, if 90% of those skills were really useful, I'd not argue. But more often than not those skills are only useful in niche situations that almost never happen. And to be honest some of them are useful in my imagination only. Also, how is it fair that we have no racial skills and at least one utility skill for every legend/trait line. HUH?!. Tell me.
    I only roam 8 hours max in a week on WvW nowadays and play other games instead but pretty sure when I cared enough I knew this class had less weapons comparing to most of them too.

    And yeah [email protected] one-trick pony being only meta build for years.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

    There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

    Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

    Firstly, soothing stone also provides retalliation on top of heal+condi cleanse, which is already more cleanse than what the skill you compared with had (mending).

    Secondly, revenant will always have two heals. Please take into consideration the class as a whole before asking for buffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skill is OP/adequate, but comparing it to other classes is just....unfair.

    A slight cd reduction would be nice tho 😊

    UNFAIR YOU SAY???

    Okay, if 90% of those skills were really useful, I'd not argue. But more often than not those skills are only useful in niche situations that almost never happen. And to be honest some of them are useful in my imagination only. Also, how is it fair that we have no racial skills and at least one utility skill for every legend/trait line. HUH?!. Tell me.
    I only roam 8 hours max in a week on WvW nowadays and play other games instead but pretty sure when I cared enough I knew this class had less weapons comparing to most of them too.

    And yeah [email protected] one-trick pony being only meta build for years.

    I think the point was specifically that comparing one skill to another skill on a profession with different mechanics isn't a fair comparison - you need to compare the professions as a whole. Every revenant heal, for instance, is balanced on the basis that you have two where other professions generally have one: therefore, revenant heals should take into account that there's another healing skill available. As a result, revenant heals shouldn't be compared to other heals as if they had their full 30s recharge, but instead essentially have an effective cooldown of around 15s. (Strictly speaking, revenants are better off than having a 15s heal skill, since the revenant can use them nearly back-to-back if needed.)

    Which means we can compare Soothing Stone with Mending, but we shouldn't add "and has a longer cooldown". Comparing them directly, Soothing Stone heals for less, but removes more conditions and provides a boon. On paper, taking into account the way revenant heals work, it might actually be better than Mending, especially given the general context of revenants having weak condition removal.

    Problem is, of course, that Mending removes Poison before healing, while Soothing Stone heals before removing Poison. That should really be fixed.

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2019

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

    There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

    Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

    Firstly, soothing stone also provides retalliation on top of heal+condi cleanse, which is already more cleanse than what the skill you compared with had (mending).

    Secondly, revenant will always have two heals. Please take into consideration the class as a whole before asking for buffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skill is OP/adequate, but comparing it to other classes is just....unfair.

    A slight cd reduction would be nice tho 😊

    UNFAIR YOU SAY???

    Okay, if 90% of those skills were really useful, I'd not argue. But more often than not those skills are only useful in niche situations that almost never happen. And to be honest some of them are useful in my imagination only. Also, how is it fair that we have no racial skills and at least one utility skill for every legend/trait line. HUH?!. Tell me.
    I only roam 8 hours max in a week on WvW nowadays and play other games instead but pretty sure when I cared enough I knew this class had less weapons comparing to most of them too.

    And yeah [email protected] one-trick pony being only meta build for years.

    Crying about racial skills.

    bigbrain timeee

    Also, dont get too fixated on the word unfair. Reread my whole reply and understand what it means.

  • @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

    There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

    Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

    Firstly, soothing stone also provides retalliation on top of heal+condi cleanse, which is already more cleanse than what the skill you compared with had (mending).

    Secondly, revenant will always have two heals. Please take into consideration the class as a whole before asking for buffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skill is OP/adequate, but comparing it to other classes is just....unfair.

    A slight cd reduction would be nice tho 😊

    UNFAIR YOU SAY???

    Okay, if 90% of those skills were really useful, I'd not argue. But more often than not those skills are only useful in niche situations that almost never happen. And to be honest some of them are useful in my imagination only. Also, how is it fair that we have no racial skills and at least one utility skill for every legend/trait line. HUH?!. Tell me.
    I only roam 8 hours max in a week on WvW nowadays and play other games instead but pretty sure when I cared enough I knew this class had less weapons comparing to most of them too.

    And yeah [email protected] one-trick pony being only meta build for years.

    I think the point was specifically that comparing one skill to another skill on a profession with different mechanics isn't a fair comparison - you need to compare the professions as a whole. Every revenant heal, for instance, is balanced on the basis that you have two where other professions generally have one: therefore, revenant heals should take into account that there's another healing skill available. As a result, revenant heals shouldn't be compared to other heals as if they had their full 30s recharge, but instead essentially have an effective cooldown of around 15s. (Strictly speaking, revenants are better off than having a 15s heal skill, since the revenant can use them nearly back-to-back if needed.)

    Which means we can compare Soothing Stone with Mending, but we shouldn't add "and has a longer cooldown". Comparing them directly, Soothing Stone heals for less, but removes more conditions and provides a boon. On paper, taking into account the way revenant heals work, it might actually be better than Mending, especially given the general context of revenants having weak condition removal.

    Problem is, of course, that Mending removes Poison before healing, while Soothing Stone heals before removing Poison. That should really be fixed.

    I understand, that's why I never complained about Defiant stance which has 5 seconds duration comparing to 3 seconds that herald has. However like somebody else mentioned about that guy thinks revenant heals are OP because they are two. Oh well we have to bear with other skills which are often very predictable hindrance.
    We have herald with Glint everyone complains about despite it's revenant's only blatant invulnerability (which requires herald traited as elite) but without it most healing abilities are very pale, just look at Renegade meme we got with this expansion as example. Some people make it work, I made it work couple times too but general consensus it's trash no matter what other second legend you take.

    I mean, I used Ventari on Herald way more times than Jalis since revenant appeared and I almost never play revenant as support.

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    Crying about racial skills.

    Bigbrain timeeee.

    Also, dont get too fixated on the word unfair. Reread my whole reply and understand what it means.

    Read what? You saying revenant heals are overpowered without keeping in mind that revenant'd bear with set of half-useless skills that come with it if one wants to activate heal from other legend? Yeah I read that. I get that Glint's heal is OP for Goldies and below because they can't see or react fast enough but without it most healing skills are so meh. That's why there is still no viable core buld around.

    And yeah, I'd often have more use of some racial skills than Jade Winds for example which'd drain my energy completely upon use. Just saying

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    In contrast to all of the heal skills, Soothing Stone is pretty much Mending on a longer cooldown that doesn't really take away as many conditions as it should. 6 would have been more in line IMO, however with all the new things we've been getting. It really doesn't hold up that much, Jalis overall has been in a dire need rework which it's been slowly getting. However, there's still a few things go through.

    There has been this suggestion of barrier per condition removed going around which honestly it's surprising we don't have it yet given that Jalis "can" get barrier but only via SotM which is.. Mediocre at best even with healing power so I would agree to have it and encourage proper plays with the skill, kind of like Empowering Misery but gain more barrier for every conditions removed, because I do definitely think Soothing Stone deserves to remove "all" conditions for barrier with how weak the heal and large the CD is.

    Honestly, next to RotGD that needs to be speed up to the level of ½ PA (Energy is fine due to how the principle of the Legend is to always have stability and not be stunned, 40 is reasonable). This would actually make dwarf more attractive to a lot of players and try, but also viable to the point where the skill ceiling isn't impossibly high to work with.

    Firstly, soothing stone also provides retalliation on top of heal+condi cleanse, which is already more cleanse than what the skill you compared with had (mending).

    Secondly, revenant will always have two heals. Please take into consideration the class as a whole before asking for buffs.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skill is OP/adequate, but comparing it to other classes is just....unfair.

    A slight cd reduction would be nice tho 😊

    UNFAIR YOU SAY???

    Okay, if 90% of those skills were really useful, I'd not argue. But more often than not those skills are only useful in niche situations that almost never happen. And to be honest some of them are useful in my imagination only. Also, how is it fair that we have no racial skills and at least one utility skill for every legend/trait line. HUH?!. Tell me.
    I only roam 8 hours max in a week on WvW nowadays and play other games instead but pretty sure when I cared enough I knew this class had less weapons comparing to most of them too.

    And yeah [email protected] one-trick pony being only meta build for years.

    I think the point was specifically that comparing one skill to another skill on a profession with different mechanics isn't a fair comparison - you need to compare the professions as a whole. Every revenant heal, for instance, is balanced on the basis that you have two where other professions generally have one: therefore, revenant heals should take into account that there's another healing skill available. As a result, revenant heals shouldn't be compared to other heals as if they had their full 30s recharge, but instead essentially have an effective cooldown of around 15s. (Strictly speaking, revenants are better off than having a 15s heal skill, since the revenant can use them nearly back-to-back if needed.)

    Which means we can compare Soothing Stone with Mending, but we shouldn't add "and has a longer cooldown". Comparing them directly, Soothing Stone heals for less, but removes more conditions and provides a boon. On paper, taking into account the way revenant heals work, it might actually be better than Mending, especially given the general context of revenants having weak condition removal.

    Problem is, of course, that Mending removes Poison before healing, while Soothing Stone heals before removing Poison. That should really be fixed.

    I understand, that's why I never complained about Defiant stance which has 5 seconds duration comparing to 3 seconds that herald has. However like somebody else mentioned about that guy thinks revenant heals are OP because they are two. Oh well we have to bear with other skills which are often very predictable hindrance.
    We have herald with Glint everyone complains about despite it's revenant's only blatant invulnerability (which requires herald traited as elite) but without it most healing abilities are very pale, just look at Renegade meme we got with this expansion as example. Some people make it work, I made it work couple times too but general consensus it's trash no matter what other second legend you take.

    I mean, I used Ventari on Herald way more times than Jalis since revenant appeared and I almost never play revenant as support.

    @aceofbass.2163 did specify that (s)he was not saying that rev heals were OP or even adequate, just that comparing them directly to another profession's single heal without paying attention to the fact that the revenant has two isn't a fair comparison.

    Which is something that goes both ways. Revenants having access to more skills in their build at once than most professions is balanced by them generally being more predictable than most professions, their skills being chosen in groups rather than being able to cherrypick the best, and finding it difficult in general to adjust to meta shifts by switching in a skill or two (for instance, where most professions can adjust to a condi-heavy meta by slotting more condi clear, for a revenant it usually takes rebuilding from the ground up). All things considered, revenants probably deserve to get more benefit out of each slot rather than less, to compensate for this predictability and reduced adaptability.

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    Tbh if you aint picking steadfast from retribution you have 0 rights to complain about sustain. Just with 6 energy you regenerate 400hp/s which is more than healing signet. And thats ignoring other traits to heal/leech hpor Jalis hammer themself. Really healing is the last issue here.

    Soothing stone issue is slow cast time and huge tell but instead of reducing the cast i would rather get block/invul

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    Tbh if you aint picking steadfast from retribution you have 0 rights to complain about sustain. Just with 6 energy you regenerate 400hp/s which is more than healing signet. And thats ignoring other traits to heal/leech hpor Jalis hammer themself. Really healing is the last issue here.

    Soothing stone issue is slow cast time and huge tell but instead of reducing the cast i would rather get block/invul

    or at least an 33% condi&power dmg reduction

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    The heal skill definitely need some sort of compensation. Whether running Steadfast or not, it's pretty weak compared the other options and doesn't really have significant benefit, bonus or special feature compared the others, the whole concept of retaliation with Jalis falls apart when it's whole entire arsenal doesn't synergize together well enough to make it worthwhile having because setting up the perfect scenario gets you deleted beforehand.

    To be tanky and punish people hitting you? That's great and all, but you can't do both reliably because it takes too much time that it's better to just adopt a completely different play style with weakness.

    As far as I know, no profession in the game yet make use of barrier and retaliation together, this would make perfect sense for what Jalis tries to be as a tank.

    Finally there was a lot of changes with the skill to try and make it stand out better, but that all didn't do much. It needs some special feature to come in term with the Revenant so called flashy context, all the legends do it, there should be no exception. Not like Jalis is OP as of right now and doing some changes could stir up the options a bit, personally next to RotGD being nearly useless in too many scenarios. The legend isn't that bad.

    Barrier is not like health, Barrier goes away after a while, condition application is not underpowered, it allows it to be tanky without creeping it. This could be the best change for it.

    While the wiki says many things, it also contradict itself sometimes, the change logs say that conditions are now removed first, including poison.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Vasdamas Anklast.1607Vasdamas Anklast.1607 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2019

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    Tbh if you aint picking steadfast from retribution you have 0 rights to complain about sustain. Just with 6 energy you regenerate 400hp/s which is more than healing signet. And thats ignoring other traits to heal/leech hpor Jalis hammer themself. Really healing is the last issue here.

    Soothing stone issue is slow cast time and huge tell but instead of reducing the cast i would rather get block/invul

    Steadfast Rejuvenation is OP, I've been using it for a while on WvW with my Hybrid build. Especially on condi revenant with trailblazer+runes of tormenting build. Dwarven training is pretty strong too since it contributes to Weakness tanking and adds 10% damage buff against weakened target on top of that.
    It's not widely used yet because revenant requires both Devastation and Invocation traitlines to punish agile enemies for their mistakes (and unlike most of those annoying kitten classes it doesn't have nearly as much sustain and has to rely on IL). Once meta changes I'd expect nerfs for Retribution.

  • Doto.6357Doto.6357 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    Tbh if you aint picking steadfast from retribution you have 0 rights to complain about sustain. Just with 6 energy you regenerate 400hp/s which is more than healing signet. And thats ignoring other traits to heal/leech hpor Jalis hammer themself. Really healing is the last issue here.

    Soothing stone issue is slow cast time and huge tell but instead of reducing the cast i would rather get block/invul

    Steadfast Rejuvenation is OP, I've been using it for a while on WvW with my Hybrid build. Especially on condi revenant with trailblazer+runes of tormenting build. Dwarven training is pretty strong too since it contributes to Weakness tanking and adds 10% damage buff against weakened target on top of that.
    It's not widely used yet because revenant requires both Devastation and Invocation traitlines to punish agile enemies for their mistakes (and unlike most of those annoying kitten classes it doesn't have nearly as much sustain and has to rely on IL). Once meta changes I'd expect nerfs for Retribution.

    I wouldn’t really call it op in spvp where trailblazer gear and torment tunes do not exist. I play a lot of core and renegade with retribution and steadfast is fine in my opinion. Since invocation is a must have, you usually give up traitlines like devastation to run retribution in the first place, giving up damage for more sustain. It’s a fair trade off.

    Now let’s compare that to the sustain of holosmith... ignoring the massive condi conversion/cleansing, heat therapy is a passive heal over time that gets stronger the more aggressive a holo is, on top of the general amazingness of healing turret. That is what OP sustain looks like, not a revenant running retribution.

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    Tbh if you aint picking steadfast from retribution you have 0 rights to complain about sustain. Just with 6 energy you regenerate 400hp/s which is more than healing signet. And thats ignoring other traits to heal/leech hpor Jalis hammer themself. Really healing is the last issue here.

    Soothing stone issue is slow cast time and huge tell but instead of reducing the cast i would rather get block/invul

    Steadfast Rejuvenation is OP, I've been using it for a while on WvW with my Hybrid build. Especially on condi revenant with trailblazer+runes of tormenting build. Dwarven training is pretty strong too since it contributes to Weakness tanking and adds 10% damage buff against weakened target on top of that.
    It's not widely used yet because revenant requires both Devastation and Invocation traitlines to punish agile enemies for their mistakes (and unlike most of those annoying kitten classes it doesn't have nearly as much sustain and has to rely on IL). Once meta changes I'd expect nerfs for Retribution.

    I wouldnt consider invocation mandatory on condi rev. Stunbreak on swap is fine, some bonuses here and there but thats it tbh. I dont really play the game anymore but been running core rev since forever and even tho idk what im supposed to look for i still rekt ppl 1v1 with condi core rev.

    I would swap invo for renegade if.. anything from it was actually decent at all.