WvG-World-vs-Globes - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

WvG-World-vs-Globes

2>

Comments

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On a 12 month period.... really?

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    On a 12 month period.... really?


    See - 1 - REBOOT WvW - Remove World Linking & Implement Changes to WvW

    Calculate an Average Server Rank based on a moving 12 month period on the 1st of every Month

    [spoiler]

    1. Remove World Linking & Put back the Old WvW ecosystem of Home Servers
    2. Remove any penalty to players that choose to Transfer to a New Home Server
    3. Monitor Server Population - Servers are Opened & Closed based on Server's Capacity
    4. Server Population Count based on a player's active WvW hours
    5. Closely Monitor & Adjust, Tweak, or Replace World Server Ranking Mechanics
    6. Calculate an Average Server Rank based on a moving 12 month period on the 1st of every Month
    7. Posted Average Server Rank impacts Server Transfer based on the below
    8. Servers with an Average Rank (3 & below) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    9. Servers with an Average Rank (6 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & X World Ability Points
    10. Servers with an Average Rank (9 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 1800 gems & X World Ability Points
    11. Servers with an Average Rank (12 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 500 gems & X World Ability Points
    12. Servers with an Average Rank (15 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 250 gems & X World Ability Points
    13. Servers with an Average Rank (18 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 125 gems & X World Ability Points
    14. Servers with an Average Rank (Above 18) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - Free
    15. Remove Supply when Player Capture Objectives on an Enemy BL, or EBG Enemy Territory
    16. Keep Supply when Player Capture Objectives on their Home BL, or EBG Home Territory

    [/spoiler]


    Need to be careful on posting partial or out of context details.

    Top Ranked Server's Transfers are locked based on their "Annual" Average Server Rank.

    WvG Road map currently defines:
    Any Server Ranked (3) & Below will be CLOSED to transfer based on a moving 12 month period.

    The Top Ranked Servers are the target of everybody below them in WvG.

    Players only get rewarded for raiding equal or higher Ranked Server in WvG.

    The Lower Ranked Servers enjoy having their Transfer option OPEN based on Population Cap defined by ANet...which allow Lower Ranked Servers to recruit...in their efforts to raid & topple the Top Ranked Servers.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2019

    Ok let's delve deeper into this.

    1. Remove World Linking & Put back the Old WvW ecosystem of Home Servers
    2. Remove any penalty to players that choose to Transfer to a New Home Server
    3. Monitor Server Population - Servers are Opened & Closed based on Server's Capacity
    4. Calculate an Average Server Rank based on a moving 12 month period
    5. Closely Monitor & Adjust, Tweak, or Replace World Server Ranking Mechanics
    6. Servers with an Average Rank (1 & above) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    7. Servers with an Average Rank (3 & above) - If Open - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & X World Ability Points
    8. Servers with an Average Rank (6 & above) - If Open - Allow Transfer for - 1800 gems & X World Ability Points
    9. Servers with an Average Rank (9 & above) - If Open - Allow Transfer for - 500 gems & X World Ability Points
    10. Servers with an Average Rank (12 & above) - If Open - Allow Transfer for - 250 gems & X World Ability Points
    11. Servers with an Average Rank (15 & above) - If Open - Allow Transfer for - 125 gems & X World Ability Points
    12. Servers with an Average Rank (18 & above) - If Open - Allow Transfer for - Free
    13. Remove Supply when Player Capture Objectives on an Enemy BL, or EBG Enemy Territory
    14. Keep Supply when Player Capture Objectives on their Home BL, or EBG Home Territory
    1. You want to break links and put server back to their original state, all 24/27 servers? Because we all know there isn't enough population for even 12 servers these days.
    2. You want to take out transfer penalties, not a good idea, yes I know transfer fees will be higher(what is x world ability points? what is it based on? amount you need to pay? minimum amount you need to have? highly doubt they would bother using mastery points as a transfer fee). Still not a good idea, there should be some consequences for leaving a server, cutting rewards is a good one to hit, and the more you server hop the more you will feel it.
    3. At what frequency? once every 12 months? once a week? by the hour? dynamic? How do you determine capacity? by actual accounts on the server? even dead accounts? Didn't work so well in the first 3 years of the game.
    4. Highlighting "moving 12 months" doesn't make it any different, you're still using 12 months, quite a lot can happen to a server over 12 months. Recent example is Sorrows Furnace who just went from full to medium in the matter of two months, the previous 10 months they probably hovering around high to full, in other words they dropped from rank 3 and above to around rank 9 and above, but they're stuck on 3 and above for months afterwards (the difference between 6480 gems to 500 gems). So should this server be penalized for months after their drop back down to medium because most of their 10 months previously they sat two levels higher? 12 months is obviously too long and pointless to obtain averages for population.
    5. In any case transfers is pointless because in this system you only pick a server to defend home maps, you can still pick the same globes to attack regardless of what other servers you're actually on, so guilds can now recruit from anywhere and just have their guild on the offensive maps all the time instead of defending home.
    6. 13/14 Should be filed under game play changes, not server changes.
    1. Remove the current match-up system, but keep a system for Server Score & Rank
    2. Assign each Server a "globe" to Defend - (Single unit of 4 maps owned by the same server)
    3. Let players pick any (2) "globes" to weekly raid using a Re-Purposed Server Guesting
    4. During the Match-Up players are shown the top (3) highest scoring enemies raiding their Home Server's globe in a random order
    5. Players Earn Rewards ONLY when they raid "globes" that are "Ranked Higher or Equal to" their Home Server
    1. What system do you want here? you're redesigning servers/matchups/server ranks, "keep a system" so not the current ppt system? what system do you want for scoring? Rank for what?
    2. According to your globe design, you want players on a server to have a globe consisting of 4 maps of their own(why keep 3 home maps? why not just one desert one alpine, why 3 home maps when every map is same owner). Then you want players to pick two other globes to fight for the week, so essentially players will now end up having 12 maps to fight on. You now want to introduce 3x more play area while the servers are 10x more dead than year one when 4 maps were even fully used around the clock.
    3. How are they picking these globes? server majority vote? individual? guild assigned on guild leader selection? How are players sorted into the two attacking sides on maps? random color selection? Are there limitations to how many times a server can be picked? how is this determined? or can players on all 23 servers pick Blackgate to raid? (please say yes, this concept will suddenly be more exciting for everyone here). What if a server gets no one to pick them? Let's say Eredon Terrace, do they just watch paint dry on their garri walls in their empty 4 home maps for the match?
    4. You want to show the top 3 servers attacking your globe, but what's the point when you already had players pick two globes for the weekly raid, the top 3 attacking you may not even be the top 3 your server is attacking, so what's the point? Can't even retaliate properly to the top 3 servers attacking you.
    5. Higher ranked in what way? previous week score? current score?(how does that affect reset?) by their server average ranking? (So Sorrows Furnace could potentially be screwed twice over, once for having a high average population based on 12 months even though they are lower, and then getting raided more because who wouldn't attack a high ranked but actually low population server). Which rewards are affected here? personal or server rewards? Could I just log in later in the week and pick two higher rank servers to raid and then just sit back and collect rewards on friday?

    Giving every single person a choice on two globes(let's be honest naming this globe vs globe vs globe aka gvg would have been better), giving everyone a choice could end up so bad, if you thought balance was out of whack before just wait until you see people analyze it to hit certain servers based on their high reward rank but low population. Players will always pick the easiest road to rewards especially when you leave it wide open with options.

    You're presenting way too many options for players to potentially create more chaos and abuse the system and have even worse balance for populations and coverage. Not to mention home bl won't suddenly become popular again because it would be better to attack 2 globes than defend 1 globe for points(some servers probably wouldn't even be able to defend 1 map nevermind 4 in a globe, better off just raiding a globe with other randoms to get rewarded, it's easier to attack with 2 sides than defending from 2 sides.

    If you want to tear down the current match system for something entirely new you're going to have to give details to every change, there are points that lead into other points, and details need to be given on how they work together. Scoring and ranking is obviously important when you want to use it for rewards, you can't just say keep a system and leave it at that. You reserved 20 posts for the idea I think you can afford to go into further details of every part of the idea.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2019

    I respect the effort. Even if I can't agree with all of it... Or what is to come perhaps as well. For now I'm just gonna comment how the post comes across to me as a reader...

    "Why?"

    • I honestly think you @Diku.2546 didn't give this post enough room to breath for further clarification as to "why?" things should happen as how you present them here. Some of us may not need that "why?" answered as much as others depending what the topic is... But as the author of this post yourself, I think it would be wise to assume not everyone is going to be on the same page as you through and through. So the post could have used some more detail in my opinion based on that assumption of not knowing "why?" initially. Not saying this to put you down or anything. Just how it comes across to me as a reader. I just want to know what more precisely and specifically brought you to such conclusions.

    The Layout

    • The next thing is the layout of the post. I think this should have acted much more like a library for general remarks about "WvG". I think it's going to be hard to stay on track as a reader here because there is just so many many different topics/points to talk about in greater detail. This is almost like starting out reading a chapter out of a book, the first page or two and then suddenly jumping around from page to page (randomly) till the reader is finished. I think the post would have been more clean if for each of the topics like "REDESIGN WvW - Re-Purpose Server Guesting for WvG & encourage Healthy Competition" had their own separate posts to discuss in greater detail and focus on there respectively. Then mentioning this ideally (what should have been) more library-like post, here, within them.

    Timing

    • I think you should have typed what you typed at the very least 90% of all you wanted to say and then submitted it. Though, I'm not saying everyone is going to think of every single they want to say initially. However, I am saying that as a reader, I need the bulk of what needs to be said... Said. This isn't like a book in the sense where I'm waiting on the next book in the series to come out. Instead, what we have here, is a plan of action with some steps on how to go about it. While I and others wait for the rest to come into play.

    • When a plan is presented in this manner it gives the sensation that not everything have been entirely thought through at least initially. Given why it's taking extra time to even present more of the basics to that plan. Which, should be the only valid reason why I/others should be waiting on even just see the rest of the basics to this plan. Therefore, leaves me feeling especially uneasy about going through with it.

    Again not saying this to put you @Diku.2546 down. Just my take on reading how this was presented. Take it or leave it. The choice is your's. On the bright side... Like I said, I respect the effort here. Thanks for reading.

    "You can't have quality population balance without quality participation." 🤯

    ~ Me

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 Yes, we can’t fill up the 36 total maps in NA and EU, but the plan involves 51 servers with their own “world”... Which in total would be...

    51 EBG + 51 Red BL + 51 Blue BL + 51 Green BL = 204 maps

    204 maps is almost 6x the amount of maps we currently have to play on... And this issue was brought up when the idea originally landed, but yeah.

    And 204 wvw maps would be 4x the amount of different maps in pve land, which currently numbers at 50.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2019

    @WvW Community
    Sorry if I'm not posting an immediate answer to your questions, but I'll try to incorporate them into the Major Chapters of this "WvG Book" that I'm drafting in this single Thread that makes up a Road Map to Save the WvW game mode.

    My Long-Term goal is to provide an answer to your question in:

    TBA - CHAPTER 9 - WvG FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions & Answers about WvG


    @Whiteout.1975
    I am grateful for your feedback & I'll endeavor to try my best to respond in kind.

    Your remarks about layout made me realize that I NEED to constantly remind myself to see things from a Reader's point of view.

    I've gone back & re-labeled things as CHAPTERS to start.

    My post actually is a "Book" that's unfolding & I'm drafting each CHAPTER based on my knowledge of WvW & this forum community.

    I wanted to have this "Book" presented in one Thread...so the reader could see the whole "Book" instead of jumping around to different Threads.

    My intent is for folks to offer feedback, but to go back to the presented CHAPTERS that are at the beginning of this Thread for answers.

    The 1st Post is my Table of Contents for this "WvG Book":
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

    Your above post has a lot more for me to digest of course, but I'll try my best to listen to your advice...so look for additional changes & not just cosmetic changes to the "Table of Contents".

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2019

    @Diku.2546 said:

    @WvW Community
    Sorry if I'm not posting an immediate answer to your questions, but I'll try to incorporate them into the Major Chapters of this "WvG Book" that I'm drafting in this single Thread that makes up a Road Map to Save the WvW game mode.

    My Long-Term goal is to provide an answer to your question in:

    TBA - CHAPTER 9 - WvG FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions & Answers about WvG


    @Whiteout.1975
    I am grateful for your feedback & I'll endeavor to try my best to respond in kind.

    Your remarks about layout made me realize that I NEED to constantly remind myself to see things from a Reader's point of view.

    I've gone back & re-labeled things as CHAPTERS to start.

    My post actually is a "Book" that's unfolding & I'm drafting each CHAPTER based on my knowledge of WvW & this forum community.

    I wanted to have this "Book" presented in one Thread...so the reader could see the whole "Book" instead of jumping around to different Threads.

    My intent is for folks to offer feedback, but to go back to the presented CHAPTERS that are at the beginning of this Thread for answers.

    The 1st Post is my Table of Contents for this "WvG Book":
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

    Your above post has a lot more for me to digest of course, but I'll try my best to listen to your advice...so look for additional changes & not just cosmetic changes to the "Table of Contents".

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Diku, servers are going away. They will NOT exist when Alliances drops. You will not save the server model for WvW because 7 years of experience has taught EVERYONE that it doesn't work for this game mode.

    And you claim to listen to feedback, but years ago you've been told that we can't fill the current 36 maps across NA and EU, yet you want to have 204 potential maps in play...

    This idea is never going to happen, like ever. Sorry.

    And here are the OFFICIAL words from the devs...

    “Restructuring Worlds

    Even though world linking has brought world populations closer together, it is impossible for us to get populations and coverage any closer because the current worlds do not give us the granularity needed to do that. For example in NA, Blackgate has decent coverage across all time zones whereas worlds like Crystal Desert have higher peak times and lower off-hour times. Because world linking isn't granular enough, we don't have the ideal link that allows Crystal Desert to have coverage that is similar to Blackgate.

    This is why, in the new World Restructuring system, we will remove all players from their current worlds, and make new worlds every eight weeks. This will create more granular pieces, which allow us to avoid situations like the Crystal Desert example.

    Since worlds will not exist any longer, the "World Selection" that currently is available in character select will be eliminated, and instead a selection for playing in either North America or Europe will replace it.“

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2019

    @Swagger.1459

    I'm trying to provide ANet a serious Road Map on how to save the WvW game mode.

    The 1st post in this thread is where you can find the [ Table of Contents ] that should help guide you through reading this posted "WvG Book".

    It's pretty obvious we don't agree...so let's continue to agree to disagree.


    Oh! Thanks for reminding me about this issue. I changed the wording to better explain how flexible this mechanic was designed to be.

    The design was intended to use existing in-game maps as is, but can be adjusted to scale with the number of players that are raiding a "globe".

    The more players raiding a "globe" the more maps can be ADDED to accommodate the increase in demand to raid it...so the "globe" capacity can be increased by just ADDING maps accordingly.


    See - CHAPTER 2 - REDESIGN WvW - Re-Purpose Server Guesting for WvG & encourage Healthy Competition

    Assign each Server a "globe" to Defend - (Single unit of maps owned by the same server - Number of maps adjustable between 1-4)

    Total number of maps for Globes can be adjusted so WvG uses the following number of maps if there isn't enough population to support it & can later be increased to handle the increased growth:

    NA = 24
    EU = 27

    The number of maps as you kindly pointed out...can scale up to 204 maps, but it doesn't need to.

    The number of maps used should increase as the demand for capacity increases - that's the intended purpose of this design.

    Just need to be careful on posting partial or out of context details.

    Appreciate your feedback in helping me to update the posted CHAPTER 2 in question.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diku.2546 said:

    @Swagger.1459

    I'm trying to provide ANet a serious Road Map on how to save the WvW game mode.

    The 1st post in this thread is where you can find the [ Table of Contents ] that should help guide you through reading this posted "WvG Book".

    It's pretty obvious we don't agree...so let's continue to agree to disagree.


    Oh! Thanks for reminding me about this issue. I changed the wording to better explain how flexible this mechanic was designed to be.

    The design was intended to use existing in-game maps as is, but can be adjusted to scale with the number of players that are raiding a "globe".

    The more players raiding a "globe" the more maps can be ADDED to accommodate the increase in demand to raid it...so the "globe" capacity can be increased by just ADDING maps accordingly.


    See - CHAPTER 2 - REDESIGN WvW - Re-Purpose Server Guesting for WvG & encourage Healthy Competition

    Assign each Server a "globe" to Defend - (Single unit of maps owned by the same server - Number of maps adjustable between 1-4)

    Total number of maps for Globes can be adjusted so WvG uses the following number of maps if there isn't enough population to support it & can later be increased to handle the increased growth:

    NA = 24
    EU = 27

    The number of maps as you kindly pointed out...can scale up to 204 maps, but it doesn't need to.

    The number of maps used should increase as the demand for capacity increases - that's the intended purpose of this design.

    Just need to be careful on posting partial or out of context details.

    Appreciate your feedback in helping me to update the posted CHAPTER 2 in question.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Doesn’t matter at this point if I agree or not, the devs said no more servers with Alliances.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No answers for my post? but I see changes to number of maps and capacity back to player hours instead.

    Ok so now it's adjustable maps 1-4, so in what order do you spin up extra maps? So it's possible players won't have access to their favorite map unless enough people are playing?

    Why is it still 4 maps? Before you needed 4 maps because it was 3 home bl owners and ebg, but now it'll be one owner so why 4 maps? It's still providing a maximum of 12 maps in a matchup, which even today matchups with links can't even fill 4 maps, never mind even 2 on most nights.

    What happens when people flood raid certain servers which will most likely have 4 maps spun up, while the dead worlds are sitting on 1 map therefore getting less scoring, therefore getting lower ratings. No one is going to want to fight them since rewards are based on fighting even or higher worlds, the top globes will always have to choose the higher globes to raid for rewards. Guaranteed fights, activity, rewards, will continue to drive players upward, not spread out because there's no incentive being on an low pop server.

    How's scoring work anyways, since you now have two raiding sides made up of players from many different worlds on the sides, if ppt is ticking for 100 pts on a raid map every single world involved gets 100 points back for their server?

    Last post in here since you don't want to have a discussion with me, good luck with the book.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540

    Intention is to revert WvW back to the original ecosystem.

    When you damage an ecosystem...sometimes the right thing to do is to revert it back to what it was...and hope nature takes hold & finds its course again.
    I'm trying to give the WvW game mode a chance to go back to its roots & find the strength to recover...from its real source of power that allowed it to survive all these years without attention...Community.

    Let players pay for their own Server Transfer.

    Server Links have decimated if not outright killed off ALL Guest Server Communities.

    Part of the overall Vision of WvG...which has yet to be published in Chapter 3...is the following:

    2) Game Mode that naturally nurtures a Long Term Community

    I'm just trying at this point to undo the damage Server Linking previously did.

    You're going at 100 kilometers per hour & I'm doing my best to answer your concerns.

    I'll be adjusting the WvG Book based on the feedback that folks are graciously offering here, but I do have a pretty solid Vision on what WvG should be...so we may disagree on things...which is fine...and I'd encourage folks to perhaps create their own Road Map & Book that better meets their viewpoint.

    Long story short...I can spend time answering everybody's questions individually, but that would take time away from writing the overall "Book" that should be completed before I switch to answering individuals directly.

    I'm hoping folks will check to see if I've updated the Posted Chapter from the Table of Contents to see if I've included an answer, or updated a Chapter to better Clarify something that didn't make sense.

    Some design questions are still being internally figured out, and I'd rather not discuss them until I have a better understanding.

    I'll definitely go back to your post to review things & try to incorporate your ideas, but I may not directly answer in a post for post play.

    I truly treasure feedback & appreciate what you've posted. As you noted...I do update the content of the Posted Chapters, but I don't have the resources (personal secretary & staff) to help me keep track of things & to reply in a prompt & courteous fashion.


    Intent - Average Server Rank is based on a Moving 12 Month period - Perhaps on the 1st of every month...Average Server Rank is calculated.

    Using this Calculated Average Server Rank on the 1st day of every Month...the following applies:

    Chapter 1 Updated
    [spoiler]

    1. Remove World Linking & Put back the Old WvW ecosystem of Home Servers
    2. Remove any penalty to players that choose to Transfer to a New Home Server
    3. Monitor Server Population - Servers are Opened & Closed based on Server's Capacity
    4. Server Population Count based on a player's active WvW hours
    5. Closely Monitor & Adjust, Tweak, or Replace World Server Ranking Mechanics
    6. Calculate an Average Server Rank based on a moving 12 month period on the 1st of every Month
    7. Posted Average Server Rank impacts Server Transfer based on the below
    8. Servers with an Average Rank (3 & below) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    9. Servers with an Average Rank (6 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & X World Ability Points
    10. Servers with an Average Rank (9 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 1800 gems & X World Ability Points
    11. Servers with an Average Rank (12 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 500 gems & X World Ability Points
    12. Servers with an Average Rank (15 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 250 gems & X World Ability Points
    13. Servers with an Average Rank (18 & below) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 125 gems & X World Ability Points
    14. Servers with an Average Rank (Above 18) - IF OPEN - Allow Transfer for - Free
    15. Remove Supply when Player Capture Objectives on an Enemy BL, or EBG Enemy Territory
    16. Keep Supply when Player Capture Objectives on their Home BL, or EBG Home Territory

    [/spoiler]

    Players need to Pay - World Ability Points - To Transfer Server
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#WXP_upgrades

    Please Note - I'm still working out the details on scoring in my head...and I'm struggling to get it down in a written Chapter that's easy for folks to read.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2019

    CHAPTER 3


    NEW GAME MODE & VISION - Establish a better Road Map & Vision with World vs Globes

    2019.10.19 - ORIGINAL POST


    Before Reading Further - Please Read This Disclaimer

    [spoiler]

    1. Answers to Questions about How To will be explained in Chapters found in the Table of Contents - See - [ i.e. - Reboot WvW / Redesign WvW / Chapters on Design ]
    2. Chapters are often updated based on feedback to help confirm, clarify, or address an un-anticipated concern
    3. Spend time reading these posted Chapters to get familiar with concepts
    4. Sorry in advance if the author isn't prompt in addressing your concerns

    WvG - Table of Contents
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1
    [/spoiler]


    A New Game mode that builds upon the Old Foundations of WvW To Transform it into WvG

    WvG needs to be all about that Friday Reset where everybody rushes home to grab their favorite drink & snack…to blow off a week's worth of steam & to be someplace where everybody knows your name.


    ROAD MAP - Where Do We Want To Take WvG?

    WvG needs to first tackle the Top 3 Problems that WvW could never solve


    [spoiler]

    1. WvG needs to embrace that Server stacking is a natural part of this game mode & choose to refocus this raw power into creating Healthy Competitive Match-Ups that values the "sacrifices" that players make for their Home Server
    2. WvG needs to allow Friends & Family to play together even though they're from different Servers
    3. WvG needs to allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

    [/spoiler]


    VISION - What Do We Want WvG to Be?

    WvG needs to encourage & nuture 3 Fundamental Concepts - See [ Chapters on Design ]


    1) World Server based War that can exponentially scale to Epically Global Proportions
    [spoiler]

    1. Create a WvG ecosystem that uses the natural differrences between Server Ranks to create niches for Long-Term Communities to develop their own unique preferences - i.e. [ Language, Time Zone, and Play Style ]
    2. Map Access Mechanics are carefully used to expand or contract Capacity to create the right amount of space needed to encourage an exciting Theater of War at the various Levels within the WvG Server Rank ecosystem
    3. IF Demand is High enough - New Servers can be added to the War with an equal opportunity to increase their Rank through Healthy Competition that allows ALL Servers to Raid any #1 Ranked WvG Servers from available Regions - [ EU, NA, ASIA ]

    [/spoiler]

    2) Game Mode that naturally nurtures Long Term Communities
    [spoiler]

    1. It's expected that All Communities wiil have a life cycle that involves being Born, Growing Up, Dying, and then being Re-Born again
    2. All Worlds should be able to increase their WvG Home Rank themselves, or through Players Creating Local or International Alliances with other Enemy Worlds by teaming up & Raiding a Common Enemy
    3. Worlds that have a declining population level are allowed to survive as they drop down in WvG Rank & away from being a Target for Lower Ranked Servers to Raid

    [/spoiler]

    3) War between Worlds should typically have no borders, but should have limitations to reduce or prevent un-fair matches
    [spoiler]

    1. Players are given the ability to raid any World, but are Rewarded Only for raiding Equal or Higher Ranked Enemy Servers
    2. Players are given the ability to team up & play together with friends that have moved to other Enemy Worlds
    3. Core Base Map Mechanics naturally scales & adjusts to reduce or prevent un-fair matches from happening

    [/spoiler]


    They say the devil is in the details & the OverView of WvG will begin to explain just how complex this game mode really is


  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Population would be dead without links and would quickly kill WvW for most people like pre links.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2019

    @Knighthonor.4061


    We definately agree that the WvW game mode's Long-Term population is in dire straights.

    Server Linking mechanics has decimated our Guest Server's Long-Term Communities...based on what I've observed.

    Language Linking mechanics will probably improve population levels as people switch to English & learn to better cooperate in playing together right? Centuries of International grudges can be covered up because that's what Language Linking does...it helps people learn to get along for the sake of the team.

    Joking...it's the opposite...Language Linking will backfire on the WvW game mode.

    Long-Term Language based Communities are going to be watered down & it will make playing WvW less enjoyable...based on what I've already observed happening with Guest Server Linking.

    Many WvW developer decisions seem careless & not well thought out...this has to change, or the future for WvW will continue to go down a road that puts it in dire straights.


    If we later disagree...wanted to make sure that we're both on the same page that when all is said and done...We both want WvW to get better in the Long-Term.

    We might not agree on the following because I'm making a Strategic decision to Stop using World Linking that gives "cheap & lazy" players a "Free Ride" at getting to the zergfest in the upper Tiers.

    Keep in mind that we're discussing the creation of a New Game Mode by taking WvW and Transforming it into WvG.

    For starters...Match-Up & Scoring mechanics being planned & designed are not the same as WvW...there's a lot of other mechanics that have yet to be "released" in other Chapters on Design. Incentives will also be different due to the 3 Fundamental Concepts found in Chapter 3.


    See - WvG Table of Contents - For Links to referenced Chapters
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1


    Remove Server Linking because it goes against the 2nd Fundamental Concept for WvG found in Chapter 3.

    2 - Game Mode that naturally nurtures Long Term Communities.


    Remove Server Linking because it damages the Planned Long-Term ecosystem of WvG discussed in Chapter 1.

    When you damage an ecosystem...sometimes the right thing to do is to revert it back to what it was before...and hope nature takes hold & finds its course again


    My decisions are carefully planned & well thought out to the best of my ability...and it's my Intent...to provide the WvW game mode a better future.

    If you disagree with this post I'll respectfully say...let's agree to disagree...you have every right to disagree & your reasons are your own.

    Constructive feedback is always appreciated.


    I have a clear Road Map & Vision on where I want WvG to go

    What keeps me motivated in trying to transform WvW into WvG is this:

    WvG needs to be all about that Friday Reset where everybody rushes home to grab their favorite drink & snack…to blow off a week's worth of steam & to be someplace where everybody knows your name.

    Hoping that there's more players out there willing to take action to support & share this Road Map & Vision for WvG.


    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2019

    Pretty futile effort considering we have been given official word on alliances.

    Your fundamental math on the amount of wvw maps compared to populations doesn’t work either, but you keep ignoring that. You seem to think we have the game population, and monthly concurrency of players logging in, like WoW to draw from and fill these maps... Which you are proposing to have, potentially, 4x the amount of maps for wvw than we do for the ENTIRE pve side of the game.

    Again, you aren’t saving HoD, or any server, from extinction, so get in with a good guild alliance instead.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2019

    @Swagger.1459
    I respectfully reply - You are entitled to your opinion. Let's just agree to disagree.

    You're posting misinformation which isn't constructive feedback.


    WvG Table of Contents - For Links to referenced Chapters
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

    To correct your misinformation in regards to WvG - Please See Chapter 2

    Assign each Server a "globe" to Defend - (Single unit of maps owned by the same server - Number of maps adjustable between 1 - 4)

    Total number of maps for Globes can be adjusted so WvG uses the following number of maps if there isn't enough population to support it & can later be increased to handle the increased growth

    NA = 24
    EU = 27

    WvG Game mode mechanics are some times completely different in relation to WvW

    WvW game mode reference points can't & should not be used in comparing it to WvG


    If you believe ANet's Alliance Road Map & Vision is good & is coming soon...you should continue your discussion on their official threads instead.

    This thread is my attempt to provide a serious alternative to ANet's already "Approved" & In-Progress Road Map & Vision with Alliances...just in case their efforts Fails to deliver. I'd highly encourage you to contribute more details in their posted threads to keep folks engaged on Alliances.

    The presented WvG Chapters here are from a Game Director's point of view.

    I will not make decisions just to make players happy; but I will make decisions "Strategically" that look out for the overall Long-Term Health of this WvG game mode.

    You can find links to ANet's official threads that better align with your opinion here:

    Guild Wars 2 Forum: The Library - WvW
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/886101/#Comment_886101

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diku.2546 said:
    @Swagger.1459
    I respectfully reply - You are entitled to your opinion. Let's just agree to disagree.

    You're posting misinformation which isn't constructive feedback.


    WvG Table of Contents - For Links to referenced Chapters
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

    To correct your misinformation in regards to WvG - Please See Chapter 2

    Assign each Server a "globe" to Defend - (Single unit of maps owned by the same server - Number of maps adjustable between 1 - 4)

    Total number of maps for Globes can be adjusted so WvG uses the following number of maps if there isn't enough population to support it & can later be increased to handle the increased growth

    NA = 24
    EU = 27

    WvG Game mode mechanics are some times completely different in relation to WvW

    WvW game mode reference points can't & should not be used in comparing it to WvG


    If you believe ANet's Alliance Road Map & Vision is good & is coming soon...you should continue your discussion on their official threads instead.

    This thread is my attempt to provide a serious alternative to ANet's already "Approved" & In-Progress Road Map & Vision with Alliances...just in case their efforts Fails to deliver. I'd highly encourage you to contribute more details in their posted threads to keep folks engaged on Alliances.

    The presented WvG Chapters here are from a Game Director's point of view.

    I will not make decisions just to make players happy; but I will make decisions "Strategically" that look out for the overall Long-Term Health of this WvG game mode.

    You can find links to ANet's official threads that better align with your opinion here:

    Guild Wars 2 Forum: The Library - WvW
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/886101/#Comment_886101

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Seems like your ultimate goal is to completely destroy wvw in GW2, and make sure players flock to other RvR games.

    The devs are going in a different direction that doesn’t include saving servers. Sorry pal.

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm gonna be honest... I really don't want world servers to be saved. There are plenty of things that bother me about them. One thing that does personally, is that a random PvE player, for example, can just join a T1 server. Had never contributed to earn that ranking, but still be accepted as if they earned that place themselves. I don't blame them because that's just how it is. Though it just doesn't feel respectable.

    I want there to be firstly good general reasons to participate and a respectable form of participation. So whatever you get/rank you earn. You get that because you actually earned it along with everyone else who actually participated. The current sever system just doesn't do that... It just doesn't feel all that respectable at the end of the day for friend or foe. The whole playing musical keeps "just cause" and fighting "just cause" has gotten pretty old all in all. WvW needs a reason to put respect on it's name and it is just not there yet unfortunately.

    "You can't have quality population balance without quality participation." 🤯

    ~ Me

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2019

    Oops! - Original reply content deleted by mistake.

    Long story short...WvG will not allow players to join a T1 Server.

    Servers at that level of ranking are closed to transfer.

    [spoiler]

    1. Remove World Linking & Put back the Old WvW ecosystem of Home Servers
    2. Remove any penalty to players that choose to Transfer to a New Home Server
    3. Monitor Server Population - Servers are Opened & Closed based on Server's Capacity
    4. Server Population Count based on a player's active WvW hours - FULL - VERY HIGH - HIGH - MEDIUM
    5. Closely Monitor & Adjust, Tweak, or Replace World Server Ranking Mechanics - See [ Chapters on Design ]
    6. Calculate an Average Server Rank based on a moving 12 month period on the 1st of every Month
    7. Posted Average Server Rank impacts Server Transfer based on the below
    8. Servers with an Average Rank (3 & below) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    9. Servers with an Average Rank (6 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & X World Ability Points
    10. Servers with an Average Rank (9 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 1800 gems & X World Ability Points
    11. Servers with an Average Rank (12 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 500 gems & X World Ability Points
    12. Servers with an Average Rank (15 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 250 gems & X World Ability Points
    13. Servers with an Average Rank (18 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 125 gems & X World Ability Points
    14. Servers with an Average Rank (Above 18) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - Free
    15. Remove Supply when Player Capture Objectives on an Enemy BL, or EBG Enemy Territory
    16. Keep Supply when Player Capture Objectives on their Home BL, or EBG Home Territory

    [/spoiler]

    Being Ranked #1 needs to be earned & will come at a cost with this New Match-Up Design

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    CHAPTER 4


    WvG MATCH-UP - Globe Raiding of Green & Blue - Weekly Picked by Players

    2019.10.26 - ORIGINAL POST


    Before Reading Further - Please Read This Disclaimer

    [spoiler]

    1. Answers to Questions about How To will be explained in Chapters found in the Table of Contents - See - [ i.e. - Reboot WvW / Redesign WvW / Chapters on Design ]
    2. Chapters are often updated based on feedback to help confirm, clarify, or address an un-anticipated concern
    3. Spend time reading these posted Chapters to get familiar with concepts
    4. Sorry in advance if the author isn't prompt in addressing your concerns

    [/spoiler]


    WvG - Table of Contents
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1


    Original Base Concept 1 of 2 - See -CHAPTER 1 - REBOOT WvW
    Original Base Concept 2 of 2 - See - CHAPTER 2 - REDESIGN WvW


    What are you fighting for?

    If you're not here to fight & sacrifice for your Home World Server - Go find another thread to read - WvG isn't for you

    If you hear the calling & share the passion…Imagine - RAID TEAM! - Stand Up - [ pause ] - Prepare to Engage! - [ pause ] - Step Forward


    Step 1 - WvG - Ranking of World Servers
    [spoiler]
    Calculate an Average Server Rank for each World Server based on a moving 12 month period on the 1st of every Month

    i.e. - Server A - Consecutively Ranked 3 for 12 months = (3 x 12) / 12 = Average Rank is [ 3.000 ]

    i.e - Server A - Consecutively Ranked 3 for 11 months & 4 for 1 month = ( (3 x 11) + 4 ) / 12 = Average Rank is [ 3.083 ]
    [/spoiler]

    Step 2 - WvG - Scoring of World Servers
    [spoiler]

    1. Adjustable Parameters related to [ Rank ] Updates on the [ 1st of every Month ] & [ Reset Friday ]
    2. A Server's Rank is based on the Total Points earned by players that picked it to be their Home World Server to Defend
    3. Calculate & Post ALL Server's Total Points earned by players for that week every Friday at [ xx:xxx ] - aka Reset Friday
    4. Players ARE NOT directly shown their Server's Total Points
    5. Players are in-directly shown the top (3) highest scoring enemies raiding their Home Server in a random "circling" order
    6. Players earn points by Opening WvG Reward Chests that appear after flipping "Capture Rings" at various WvG location objectives
    7. "Capture Rings" spawn WvG Reward Chests after players flip them for (x minutes) & remains active to let players collect their Points & Rewards for themselves & their Home Server
    8. "Capture Rings" may reset to "Not Captured" for some WvG location objectives to allow it to be "Re-Captured" by Home Defenders or Enemy Raiders
    9. Servers are numerically Ranked based on the Total Points earned by their Home Defenders
    10. Any tie in Rank is decided by Seniority at the time a tie is calculated

    [/spoiler]

    Step 3 - WvG - Raiding of Enemy Globes
    [spoiler]

    1. Adjustable Parameters related to [ Raiding ] Updates based on the [ New Rank & New Score ] of World Servers
    2. Players are Rewarded ONLY when they defend their Home Server or Raid an Enemy "Globe" that's "Ranked Higher or Equal to" their Home Server
    3. Reward Exception - Players on a #1 Ranked WvG are Rewarded 2x for DEFENDING
    4. Reward Exception - Players on a #1 Ranked WvG are Rewarded 1x for RAIDING Enemy "Globes" - Average Rank 3 or below - (Rank Adjustable)
    5. WvG has a total of 51 Globes - Players are required to pick a single Globe to be their Home World Server to Defend from a list of 24 NA or 27 EU Globes
    6. Each Globe can contain ( 1 - 4 ) maps. High Ranked Servers are given 4 maps to defend while Low Ranked Servers are given 1 map to defend - (Numbers Adjustable)
    7. Adjusting the number of maps within a Globe helps to increase or decrease "seat" capacity of a Globe to host more or less players that are battling inside
    8. Maximum Globe "Seat" Capacity is set by ANet
    9. Seats are Reserved based on the following - [ Home Team - 45% ] / [ Enemy Raider = 40 %] / [ Referee = 15% ] - (Percents Adjustable)
    10. Players queue to wait for an open "seat" to enter a Globe
    11. Players can choose fight in EOTM while waiting in queue
    12. Players create their own Weekly Match-Ups by picking ANY (2) enemy Globes to Raid using a Re-Purposed Server Guesting
    13. Player's 1st Enemy Globe Choice is set to Green & 2nd Choice is set to Blue
    14. Map Way Points are re-designed for usage as follows - [ RED = Home Server ] while [ GREEN/BLUE = Enemy Raiders ]

    [/spoiler]

    Step 4 - WvG - Transferring of World Servers
    [spoiler]

    1. Adjustable Parameters related to [ Transferring ] Updates based on the [ New Rank & New Score ] of World Servers
    2. World Servers are Not Linked, but can coordinate their attacks by jointly Raiding against a "Common Enemy Globe"
    3. Players are not penalized if they choose to Transfer to a New Home Server, but they are restricted by the below conditions
    4. Servers are Opened & Closed based on World Server's Capacity Set by ANet - (Capacity Adjustable)
    5. Server Population Count based on a player's active WvW hours - FULL - VERY HIGH - HIGH - MEDIUM
    6. Monthly Average Server Rank impacts Server Transfers based on the below
    7. Servers with an Average Rank (3 & below) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    8. Servers with an Average Rank (6 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & X World Ability Points
    9. Servers with an Average Rank (9 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 1800 gems & X World Ability Points
    10. Servers with an Average Rank (12 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 500 gems & X World Ability Points
    11. Servers with an Average Rank (15 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 250 gems & X World Ability Points
    12. Servers with an Average Rank (18 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 125 gems & X World Ability Points
    13. Servers with an Average Rank (Above 18) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - Free

    [/spoiler]

    Step 5 - WvG - Counter-Weights
    [spoiler]

    1. Remove Supply when Player Capture Objectives on an Enemy BL, or EBG Enemy Territory
    2. Keep Supply when Player Capture Objectives on their Home BL, or EBG Home Territory

    [/spoiler]


    Next up….EOTM LOBBY - Where All Roads go through a Lobby Before Entering WvG


  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26547/world-restructuring

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    A message from McKenna Berdrow:

    I want to update everyone on the design we currently are investigating to help achieve population balance between worlds, and the goals we hope this new World Restructuring system can achieve.

    The goals of the World Restructuring system are:

    • Create great matches
    • Handle population fluctuations
    • Balance teams
    • Diversify WvW experiences

    It is important to keep in mind that we still are investigating and working on this system. It is possible that this system will continue to evolve as we develop it, and we will be constantly testing to make sure the system meets our goals and our expectations for a quality experience. This post is an opportunity to share with you our plans for the new system, and respond to questions before the system is far long in the development process.

    Restructuring Worlds

    Even though world linking has brought world populations closer together, it is impossible for us to get populations and coverage any closer because the current worlds do not give us the granularity needed to do that. For example in NA, Blackgate has decent coverage across all time zones whereas worlds like Crystal Desert have higher peak times and lower off-hour times. Because world linking isn't granular enough, we don't have the ideal link that allows Crystal Desert to have coverage that is similar to Blackgate.

    This is why, in the new World Restructuring system, we will remove all players from their current worlds, and make new worlds every eight weeks. This will create more granular pieces, which allow us to avoid situations like the Crystal Desert example.

    Since worlds will not exist any longer, the "World Selection" that currently is available in character select will be eliminated, and instead a selection for playing in either North America or Europe will replace it.

    World Creation

    The system creates new worlds and assigns them a pre-generated name at the start of each season. We use 'season' to describe the time between World Restructuring. We plan on eight-week seasons, which is similar to the current time between links. We will discuss more about seasons later.

    World Creation builds teams so they have similar predicted participation, skill, coverage, and language. Team assignment moves players onto teams by calculating the contribution value of a player and using that calculation to distribute players fairly. We plan to track stats like play hours in WvW, commander time and squad size, time of day, and participation levels. The exact stats have yet to be determined and we are open to suggestions of other stats to use in this system. This new system will expand upon the current calculation that uses play hours for linking.

    If a player has played WvW before, we will be able to use the statistics from their account to sort them into a new world. The system also makes a world assignment for players who have not played WvW before, when they first begin WvW. Ideally the system will assign a new player to a world on which their friends or guild mates play, thereby making it easier than it is at present for people to play with friends in WvW.

    Playing with Guild Mates

    We want to make sure that playing with WvW guild mates is easy in this new system. Guilds will be able to specify if they are a WvW guild. This essentially means the World Restructuring system will consider that factor at the start of each season when assigning the guild to a world. On an individual player level, once a player's guild has specified they are a WvW guild, the individual player will be able to set ONE of their guilds as their personal WvW guild. When World Restructuring happens at the start of a season, as long as you have specified your WvW guild, you will be assigned to the same world as everyone else in your WvW guild, guaranteeing you will be able to play with your guild mates.

    Creating Alliances

    We also want to make sure that existing WvW communities can play together in this new system. A WvW guild will be able to invite other WvW guilds to their WvW Alliance. WvW Alliances function as a party for guilds. When World Restructuring happens, the system assigns all members in the WvW guilds that make up the WvW alliance to the same world. These WvW alliances will have certain restrictions on them, such as a finite number of guilds or number of players. Our current plans for alliance size are somewhere between 500-1000 members, and we are still considering the technical and match-making ramifications of the number that we settle upon.

    World Creation Summary

    So to summarize world creation: at the start of every season our new World Restructuring system will use recent statistics, based on similar predicted participation, skill, and coverage, to create worlds filled with alliances, guilds, and unaffiliated players.

    The above graph displays an example of what makes up a world under the World Restructuring system. Keep in mind, due to the algorithm used to keep worlds balanced, the number of alliances, guilds, and individual players can be wildly different between worlds, but the participation and playtime should be relatively the same.

    Seasons

    Seasons break WvW into cycles where several matches will play out. The current design for seasons is 8 weeks, but we are open to feedback. Matches are still a week long, so there would be eight matches a season in the above scenario. During the season, we will still be using 1-up, 1-down.

    Stages:

    1. Season
      1. Once new worlds have been created and everyone has been sorted onto their WvW worlds, the new season has officially began.
      2. During a season players can manage their WvW guilds and alliances after reset and through the end of Week 7, but their WvW guild and WvW alliances will not be updated until the start of the next season.
      3. Ex: If you are playing WvW with Guild A this season and decide to set Guild B as your WvW guild in the middle of the season, you will not be able to play with Guild B until the next season, unless you transfer (more about that later).
    2. Season End
      1. A week before the season ends, that is, during Week 8 in the season, you no longer will be able to manage your WvW guilds or alliances. Your WvW guild and alliances will be locked down at this time.
      2. Everyone is kicked out of WvW, as they are with every reset. WvW will spin back up, as it currently does after reset, and everyone will now be sorted into their new worlds.
    3. World Creation
      1. Alliances, guilds, and individual players are sorted to be on a world.
      2. This will happen at the same time as current WvW reset.

    Transfers

     

    Region Transfers

    Transferring between regions, from NA to EU, will still exist. We have not determined the costs for transferring but a region selection will be available on the character select screen that will allow transfers.

    World Transfers

    We understand that even though this system tries to keep guilds and alliances together, there will be times during the season when people want to change teams. Because of this, there are plans to allow transfers between worlds during a season. This means that new worlds will have size restrictions on them, as they do currently.

    Players will be able to select worlds from the WvW panel in game. Worlds that are available for transfers will show up in the new WvW world panel. Worlds can be in these three different states:

    The cost of transfer worlds has not been determined.

    Transitioning to this System

    This system is going to take time to make. As mentioned in the WvW FAQ, part of the reason we did World Linking was because it utilized a lot of existing tech and did not require a considerable amount of time. This allowed us to address the growing population issue quickly, while also being able to address other WvW issues. This new system is going to take considerably more time to make. We do not have a release date, but this is going to require several months of work and it will share resources with any other WvW changes that we work on.

    Transitioning to this system is going to be slow and we want to make this transition as smooth as possible. Once this system is ready, we plan to give everyone several weeks to form their WvW guilds and alliances. We also want to give titles related to the worlds on which players currently are playing when World Restructuring goes live. If there are other transition ideas, we would love to hear them!

    We will continue with World Linking until World Restructuring is ready to ship.

    Feedback

    That was a lot of information and I am sure there are many questions. The team will do its best to answer them. We appreciate any feedback on this system. Your opinions of this system, as well as the community's response, will be an important part of how we tackle this project.

    If the reception is not great for this system, then the other alternative is most likely to continue World Linking. Even though making a choice between the two systems might seem like too drastic a change for some people, we have been exploring other designs to deal with WvW populations for years and we believe that World Restructuring or World Linking are the only solutions that meet our requirements. Simply "blowing up" worlds or removing people from the worlds on which they currently play is high risk (which is why we have avoided it for so long), and the only reason we are considering World Restructuring now is because it allows players to maintain and continue to build some of the communities they've created through the years.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26877/world-restructuring-faq

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/45856/world-restructuring-update-1

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/61986/world-restructuring-update-2

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    @Diku.2546 said:
    Oops! - Original reply content deleted by mistake.

    Long story short...WvG will not allow players to join a T1 Server.

    Servers at that level of ranking are closed to transfer.

    [spoiler]

    Remove World Linking & Put back the Old WvW ecosystem of Home Servers
    Remove any penalty to players that choose to Transfer to a New Home Server
    Monitor Server Population - Servers are Opened & Closed based on Server's Capacity
    Server Population Count based on a player's active WvW hours - FULL - VERY HIGH - HIGH - MEDIUM
    Closely Monitor & Adjust, Tweak, or Replace World Server Ranking Mechanics - See [ Chapters on Design ]
    Calculate an Average Server Rank based on a moving 12 month period on the 1st of every Month
    Posted Average Server Rank impacts Server Transfer based on the below
    Servers with an Average Rank (3 & below) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    Servers with an Average Rank (6 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & X World Ability Points
    Servers with an Average Rank (9 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 1800 gems & X World Ability Points
    Servers with an Average Rank (12 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 500 gems & X World Ability Points
    Servers with an Average Rank (15 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 250 gems & X World Ability Points
    Servers with an Average Rank (18 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 125 gems & X World Ability Points
    Servers with an Average Rank (Above 18) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - Free
    Remove Supply when Player Capture Objectives on an Enemy BL, or EBG Enemy Territory
    Keep Supply when Player Capture Objectives on their Home BL, or EBG Home Territory

    [/spoiler]

    Being Ranked #1 needs to be earned & will come at a cost with this New Match-Up Design

    Okay that's nice, but for me personally the thing is... I'm against moving into any position one did not earn. It doesn't matter if it's T1 or not for me ultimately. The best I can describe it, I think, is closely related to the feeling of being cut in line. And it's harder to view this hierarchy of "winners" as legitimate; when that is going on still. I just believe in the true sensation of achievements/accomplishments, ether mentally/physically ("physically" like in game rewards if you will), is best attributed to having taking the proper steps to actually being apart of the overall same processes as everyone else who actually done so. For example, like here, if you are still paying to jump ahead to some degree still... Well, that wouldn't make me feel better as a "winner" or "loser" at any point in that spectrum because I'm still ether winning or losing to people whom have likely paid their place to be where they are still in it.

    If I could ask a question because I'm bored atm (not your fault), yet curious. And perhaps I missed it before given all that was written, but... How does your system stop people from likely getting "burnt out" from trying to maintain coverage in a (likely) greater effort to win? Like are matches still 24/7 or what's the deal there?

    "You can't have quality population balance without quality participation." 🤯

    ~ Me

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2019

    @Whiteout.1975

    Thank you for helping to support this thread by asking serious concerns that most players want to know.


    Ok! Let's get you some feedback on this proposed Road Map & Vision for WvG.

    I frequently Update & Change content to this planned Road Map & Vision to reflect this WvW Community's feedback.

    The WvG Table of Contents link below helps to provide the most up-to-date details without having to search through multiple posts.

    It's critical that you read from the Chapter links found in the WvG Table of Contents.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1


    Hopefully the answers below help to address your concerns:

    Question 1) Players getting burnt out from 24/7?

    B) Answer 1) Worlds are not linked, but players are allowed to raid any Globe in WvG based on their Weekly choices. Let players work out a solution themselves.


    Question 2) Players cutting in line?

    B) Answer 2) Players are required to pay WXP Upgrade Points that they've earned to Transfer World & it doesn't come cheap. What WvW tracks are you willing to give up to Transfer World?

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#WXP_upgrades


    B) Answer 1) Context & Details Found in - [ CHAPTER 3 ] - ROAD MAP - Where Do We Want To Take WvG?

    WvG needs to allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

    [spoiler]

    1. WvG needs to embrace that Server stacking is a natural part of this game mode & choose to refocus this raw power into creating Healthy Competitive Match-Ups that values the "sacrifices" that players make for their Home Server
    2. WvG needs to allow Friends & Family to play together even though they're from different Servers
    3. WvG needs to allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

    [/spoiler]


    B) Answer 1 & 2) Context & Details Found in - [ CHAPTER 4 ] - Step 4 - WvG - Transferring of World Servers

    World Servers are Not Linked, but can coordinate their attacks by jointly Raiding against a "Common Enemy Globe"

    Servers with an Average Rank (3 & below) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    Servers with an Average Rank (6 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & 2k WXP Upgrade Points

    [spoiler]

    1. Adjustable Parameters related to [ Transferring ] Updates based on the [ New Rank & New Score ] of World Servers
    2. World Servers are Not Linked, but can coordinate their attacks by jointly Raiding against a "Common Enemy Globe"
    3. Players are not penalized if they choose to Transfer to a New Home Server, but they are restricted by the below conditions
    4. Servers are Opened & Closed based on World Server's Capacity Set by ANet - (Capacity Adjustable)
    5. Server Population Count based on a player's active WvW hours - FULL - VERY HIGH - HIGH - MEDIUM
    6. Monthly Average Server Rank impacts Server Transfers based on the below
    7. Servers with an Average Rank (3 & below) - CLOSED TO TRANSFER - (Range Adjustable)
    8. Servers with an Average Rank (6 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 6480 gems & 2k WXP Upgrade Points
    9. Servers with an Average Rank (9 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 1800 gems & 1k WXP Upgrade Points
    10. Servers with an Average Rank (12 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 500 gems & 500 WXP Upgrade Points
    11. Servers with an Average Rank (15 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 250 gems & 250 WXP Upgrade Points
    12. Servers with an Average Rank (18 & below) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - 125 gems & 125 WXP Upgrade Points
    13. Servers with an Average Rank (Above 18) - IF NOT FULL & OPEN - Allow Transfer for - Free

    [/spoiler]


    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • @Diku.2546 said:

    WvG-World-vs-Globes

    A Serious Road Map based on a Game Director's plan to save the WvW game mode by transforming it into WvG


    Link To This Post


    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1


    2019.11.02 - Next Major Chapter Scheduled to Post
    2019.10.28 - Any Major Chapter Post Last Updated


    WvG - Current Featured Post


    CHAPTER 4
    WvG MATCH-UP - Globe Raiding of Green & Blue - Weekly Picked by Players
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064950/#Comment_1064950


    [spoiler]
    To the WvW Community:

    This is the Game Mode that I envision would be possible.
    Would you help & support to keep this thread visible & actively updated?

    Please offer feedback & don't forget to +1

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.


    Please give credit & reward to author if this idea is ever used.
    Inviation to assist in development & beta test would be a warm welcome to the author.
    [/spoiler]


    MAJOR CHAPTERS - LAST UPDATED or SCHEDULED TO POST


    TBA = To Be Announced
    Warning - Applying concepts without implementing the whole design may have negative consequences.


    WvG - TABLE OF CONTENTS


    2019.10.16 - CHAPTER 1
    REBOOT WvW - Remove World Linking & Implement Changes to WvW
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064947/#Comment_1064947

    2019.10.25 - CHAPTER 2
    REDESIGN WvW - Re-Purpose Server Guesting for WvG & encourage Healthy Competition
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064948/#Comment_1064948

    2019.10.26 - CHAPTER 3
    NEW GAME MODE & VISION - Establish a better Road Map & Vision with World vs Globes
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064949/#Comment_1064949

    2019.10.28 - CHAPTER 4
    WvG MATCH-UP - Globe Raiding of Green & Blue - Weekly Picked by Players
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064950/#Comment_1064950

    2019.11.02 - CHAPTER 5
    EOTM LOBBY - Mist Raiding, WvG Recruitment & Craft-Merchant Vendors
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064951/#Comment_1064951

    TBA - 6 - WvG TOURNAMENT & SCHEDULE - Monthly & Annually
    TBA - 7 - WvG OVERVIEW - Welcome to World vs Globes
    TBA - 8 - WvG FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions & Answers about WvG
    TBA - 9 - WvG LIBRARY - Historic web links related to WvG

    PEND - 10 - WvG DESIGN - TOPICS - Discussion web links related to WvG
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064963/#Comment_1064963

    TBA - 11 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - DESIGN A-E
    TBA - 12 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - DESIGN F-H
    TBA - 13 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - DESIGN I
    TBA - 14 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - DESIGN J-K
    TBA - 15 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - DESIGN L-P
    TBA - 16 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - DESIGN Q-U
    TBA - 17 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - DESIGN V-Z

    PEND - 18 - WvG BALANCE - TOPICS - Discussion web links related to WvG
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064975/#Comment_1064975

    TBA - 19 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - WvG BALANCE
    TBA - 20 - [ Private - Dev Notes ] - GAME-DYNAMICS-REVENUE


    I like this and sounds really fun.

    With no server links for both NA and EU with same or improved maps and having matchups against EU servers is nice this means there would be like 17 tiers instead of 4 or 5.

    I miss the tournaments back in the past and think is great idea bringing it back.

    I also say improve the map structures and fix exploits. Also add more guards as it upgrades as well make tougher to kill as it upgrades this way so you need more players to capture objectives.

    Right now 1 person can easily solo and capture objectives.

    Camps make it take at least 10 players to capture at tier 3.

    Towers make it take at least 15 players to capture at tier 3.

    Keeps make it take at least 25 players to capture at tier 3.

    Stonemist Castle make it take at least 30+ players to capture at tier 3.

    So need to make more guards roam and tougher as it upgrades to tier 3.

    At same time make it harder to defend and attack objectives. By adding things in the way such as trees, rocks, rivers and so on.

    I know that this idea is not needed but add creatures that just want to kill players passively through out maps. Make it harder to get to place solo wise since roaming solo is mostly dead these days. Which I did a lot back in in the days before HoT.

  • kitten is this post? There's so much going on here and it's so convoluted, I don't even know where to start. It's such a mess I don't even want to try to figure out what's going on here.

    Luckily, I can guess as I've seen Diku posting on this topic for, what, 4 years or so? Dude, Anet has been saying they're gonna do something about WvW for 4 years. Alliances were supposed to be a temporary fix, and it's been going on for 3 years or so. THEY'RE NOT GONNA FIX WVW. They just don't want to devote the resources. I swear, you've probably done more work on this topic just with your posts then they probably have with lines of code. As such, you really need to get over this. You put in way too much work into this topic that isn't going to go anywhere. Who are you arguing to? The 50 people who read WvW forums? Who's mind are you going to change? This isn't meant as an insult: I really think you may want to see a shrink because you're clearly obsessed with this idea and devote a ton of time to it without any progress. I really do think you need some help. No joke.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2019

    @Spurnshadow.3678

    Your concern is noted & appreciated, but I'm fine. I'm just very passionate about what WvW has the potential to evolve into, but it doesn't due to poor decisions.

    Fans can be quite passionate about what they believe in. Case & point...have you seen what fans of a football team called Green Bay Packers are like?

    Or, for that matter any fan of a major competitive genre?

    What's missing from this forum is accountable feedback concerning the future of the WvW game mode...imho

    I'd like to be an example of what good accountable feedback looks like in a thread.


    To answer your concern about convoluted:

    I frequently Update & Change content to this planned Road Map & Vision to reflect this WvW Community's feedback.

    The WvG Table of Contents link below helps to provide the most up-to-date details without having to search through multiple posts.

    It's critical that you read & understand all the concepts found in the Chapter links in the WvG Table of Contents.

    I know it's a lot to ask...but please spend some time reading through these Chapters beginning with Chapter 1.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭

    CHAPTER 5


    EOTM LOBBY - Mist Raiding, WvG Recruitment & Craft-Merchant Vendors

    2019.11.02 - ORIGINAL POST


    Before Reading Further - Please Read This Disclaimer

    [spoiler]

    1. To answer concerns about this thread being convoluted
    2. I frequently Update & Change content to this planned Road Map & Vision to reflect this WvW Community's feedback
    3. The WvG Table of Contents link below helps to provide the most up-to-date details without having to search through multiple posts
    4. It's critical that you read & understand all the concepts found in the Chapter links in the WvG Table of Contents
    5. I know it's a lot to ask...but please spend some time reading through these Chapters beginning with Chapter 1
    6. Sorry in advance if the author isn't prompt in addressing your concerns

    [/spoiler]


    WvG - Table of Contents
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1


    Any Grand place needs an area where people can meet & gather to socialize

    1st - Waiting Room to Enter WvG
    2nd - Allow PvE Player to become familiar with PvP Combat
    3rd - Allow Guilds to Recruit


    EDGE OF THE MISTS - Mist Raiding
    [spoiler]

    1. ALL Players MUST enter WvG through EOTM before traveling anywhere else
    2. Edge of the Mists - Way Point Colors are - [ ORANGE / YELLOW / PINK ]
    3. Players that enter EOTM are automatically placed on the Color Team that has the lowest score for EOTM
    4. Players battle each other over EOTM Objectives
    5. Way Points have 5 Portals that Link to - [ RED Home / GREEN Globe / BLUE Globe / OBSIDIAN SANCTUM / LIONS ARCH ]
    6. Personal Reward for EOTM - loot drops, badges of honor, karma and coin
    7. Personal Reward for EOTM - world experience
    8. Personal Reward for EOTM - unique Edge of the Mists (achievements)
    9. Personal Reward for EOTM - WvW daily achievements
    10. Personal Reward Exception - Edge of the Mists progress does not count towards Skirmish reward tracks
    11. Skirmish Reward Track - Based on a Player's Total WvG Earned Points while fighting on Home & Enemy Globes for the week
    12. Remove All Links between WvW & Edge of the Mists - i.e. - EOTM Supply Drop

    [/spoiler]

    EOTM - WvG Recruitment - Regions - [ EU / NA / ASIA ]
    [spoiler]

    1. Common Areas at each Way Point welcomes players from ALL Servers based on their Region
    2. Map or Recruiting Channel allows players to broadacst messages to players from ALL Servers based on their Region
    3. Provide Services that attact PvE Players to visit WvG

    [/spoiler]

    EOTM - Craft-Merchant Vendors
    [spoiler]

    1. Craft Vendors
    2. Bank
    3. Black Lion Trader
    4. Mechant - Laurel
    5. Mechant - Outfitter
    6. Repair - Arcane Agent
    7. Armor Master
    8. Weapon Master
    9. See - Starter area (Enemy Borderlands)

    [/spoiler]


    Next Up…WvG Tournament & Schedule - Gives Meaning & Purpose Behind Being the #1 Ranked WvG Server for your Region


  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭

    2019.11.28 - CHAPTER 6 - ORIGINAL POST

    WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding Model


    Before Reading Further - Please Read This Disclaimer

    1. To answer concerns about this thread being convoluted
    2. I frequently Update & Change content to this planned Road Map & Vision to reflect this WvW Community's feedback
    3. The WvG Table of Contents link below helps to provide the most up-to-date details without having to search through multiple posts
    4. It's critical that you read & understand all the concepts found in the Chapter links in the WvG Table of Contents
    5. I know it's a lot to ask...but please spend some time reading through these Chapters beginning with Chapter 1
    6. Sorry in advance if the author isn't prompt in addressing your concerns

    WvG - Table of Contents

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

    Concrete Step-by-Step instructions on How To Fix WvW - Can we stop talking in circles & just fix it already?


    WvG is designed to be an END GAME Content to PvE

    Players are engaged to repeateadly return to GW2 to play in Healthy & Competitive Match-Ups they pick themselves

    WvG Tournaments gives Meaning & Purpose behind being the #1 Ranked WvG Server for their Region - [ EU, NA, ASIA ]

    Tournament Burn Out concerns MUST be recognized as Un-Healthly to the game mode & mechanics need to be carefully designed to reduce its impact upon players


    We're losing on this crucial opportunity to save a game mode that's ignorantly being thrown out because it's not considered valuable to ANet

    Please help & offer feedback to this thread to keep it visible if you love this game mode

    We seriously need to remind ANet of their promise to create & deliver on a better Road Map & Vision for WvW


    WvG League Titles Defined


    [ Gold ] - Highest Scoring Server within their Region for the Month

    [ Platinum ] - Highest Scoring Server within their Region based on an Annual WvG Champion Event

    WvG Regions - [ EU, NA, ASIA ]


    WvG Game Mode Sportsmanship Defined


    Definition Example:

    https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/the-competition-committees-position-on-sportsmanship

    Sportsmanship MUST be an intrinsic aspect of WvG that encourages Healthy Competition that is "Wholesome" for the players


    WvG Tournaments Defined

    Match-Ups are based on a New Globe Rading Model (click link) - Designed to encourage Healthy & Competitive Battles


    [ Reset Friday - Weekly ]

    1. Calculate & Post ALL Server's Total Points earned by players for that week every Friday at [ xx:xxx ] - aka Reset Friday
    2. Players ARE NOT directly shown their Server's Total Points
    3. Players are in-directly shown the top (3) highest scoring enemies raiding their Home Server in a random "circling" order

    [ Gold League - 1st Day of the Month ]

    1. Awarded on the 1st day of each Month for available Regions - [ EU, NA, ASIA ]
    2. Calculate ALL Server's Total Points earned by players from the previous month
    3. Award Gold Rank to Highest scoring Server for each Region - [ EU, NA, ASIA ]
    4. Any Server that Earns a [ Gold League Title ] in a given year will be invited to attend an Annual [ Platinum League Event ]

    [ Platinum League - WvG Champion Event - Launches Oct 15th Annually ]

    1. Only [ Gold League Rank ] Servers are allowed to Raid each other during the Event
    2. Event occurs over a 1-2 Week(s) period - [ Adjustable based on Player Burn Out Feedback ]
    3. Calculate ALL Server's Total Points earned by players at the end of the Event
    4. Award Platinum Rank to Highest scoring Server for each Region - [ EU, NA, ASIA ]
    5. [ NOV 1ST ] - Resume earning Normal WvG Points for [ Dec ] Gold League Title Award for the next WvG Championship Event

    Platinum League - WvG Champion Event Defined


    1st Week - Launches In-Game Only

    Last Week - In-Game & In-Person


    Platinum League - WvG Champion In-Person Event Defined


    1. In-Game participation continues
    2. In-Person participation at an approved Event Conference "Stadium" begins
    3. Access into the Event Conference "Stadium" based on a "Credit Card"
    4. Televised Coverage - Plantinum League Event - Friday Reset - 1-3 Hours - Providing In-Game Play by Play Battles between Servers with no reference to Ranking - Focus & Attention will be on Notable Guilds that are Battling for their World Server
    5. In-Person Event Conference activities may include but not limited to GW2 Mechandise Booths for Spectator Fans, Server Communities, Corporate Sponsors, etc.
    6. Security will need to be carefully planned to ensure the Event is safe & fun filled
    7. Rivalry between Servers need to carefully monitored & Healthy Competition & Proper Sportsmanship MUST be guiding principles of this sponsored Game mode Event
    8. [ Gold League Title ] Servers are allocated a reserved area with limited seating for In-Game participation & for Supporting Spectator Fans
    9. Players are required to bring their own equipment
    10. Onsite ANet sanctioned Referees closely monitor Players for cheating
    11. At the end of the Event - WvG Champions are announced for each Region - [ EU, NA, ASIA ]
    12. [ WvG Champions ] - In-Person Reward - T-Shirt with Year's WvG Champion Logo before leaving the Event
    13. [ WvG Champions ] - In-Game Reward - Back-Pack skin with Year's WvG Champion Logo

    Next Up - OverView of WvG - Presents just how complex an ecosystem this game mode really is