(video) Build templates, and why the design is horrible in it's current state. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

(video) Build templates, and why the design is horrible in it's current state.

Disclaimer: i didn't make this video, i stumbled on it on youtube, so full credit goes to Daelin Dwin and the people who helped him make the video.

The point's raised are on point, and quite honestly, it only angers me even more that arenanet didnt simply copy the arcDPS templates, since they were quite litterally perfect the way they were.

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Comments

  • Acheron.4731Acheron.4731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @style.6173 said:
    It is definitely odd that ANET worked on this for so long and still ended up with a design that is less efficient than arcdps or gw1.

    They just simply don't have the right people anymore. They have struggled with everything since PoF started.

    A true friend of the crown

  • BlueJin.4127BlueJin.4127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2019

    Unlimited build templates like GW1 that players can store on their own PC’S along with a paid version that stores build templates on Anet’s servers would have been great. I would have gladly paid 2,000 gems to store (at least 100 builds) on Anet’s servers.

    The coming set up, though, is atrocious. Very limited number of build slots, and most likely several hundred gems to unlock only ONE build slot for only ONE character. It seems like Anet’s focus was not on how to create the ideal build templates, but on how to milk players’ money with as little effort as possible. I’m not spending any gems on this.

    Only bright side, for me, is that since majority of my characters don’t do PvP or WvW, these characters can use these 2 spare slots for PVE builds, so it’s 2 more than what is officially available right now...

    ^^

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    @style.6173 said:
    It is definitely odd that ANET worked on this for so long and still ended up with a design that is less efficient than arcdps or gw1.

    Hmm yeah it's worrying when you put it this way. :/

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems I'll still use Arcdps.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    @Donari.5237 said:
    Halfway through he complains about six slots for nine professions while mousing over the character build tabs. I may be misremembering, but aren't those character specific? So it's six slots for -one- profession, individualized per character that has them unlocked. The left hand side is overall builds that can be shared, and 24 there does seem limiting if you want to keep swapping out the ones you have individually saved from a vast library of builds (I don't, myself, but I can see there are those that like to change builds every ten feet). But I think he's wrong on that particular bit so I can't say the points are all on point here.

    6 slots aren't enough.

    I have on necromancer
    pdps reaper
    cdps scourge
    heal scourge
    for raids and for wvw(the builds are different).. thats 6 builds there, and now I have no space for pvp builds.....

    and mesmer mains have far more builds

    I happen to have these on different characters so it doesn't bother me....but I understand why people who have been using arc are frustrated with the coming builds. They'll have to pay over a couple hundred dollars, to have less than they got from arc.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Seems I'll still use Arcdps.

    Arc templates will stop working when the first party ones come out. That was the terms for them existing in the first place and thats what ppl asked for.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    @BlueJin.4127 said:
    Unlimited build templates like GW1 that players can store on their own PC’S along with a paid version that stores build templates on Anet’s servers would have been great. I would have gladly paid 2,000 gems to store 100 total builds on Anet’s servers.

    The coming set up, though, is atrocious in so many ways. I don’t see myself ever spending any gems for this.

    Only bright side for me, is that since majority of my characters don’t do PvP or WvW, these characters can use these 2 spare slots for PVE builds, so it’s 2 more than what is officially available right now...

    You would have paid 2000 gems to store 100 chat codes- are you crazy?

    Edit: @Taygus- you might as well delete those scourge builds since the shade nerf has given scourge a hefty kick in the balls. I haven't played mine since the patch, and will probably revert to reaper unless my raid static can tolerate the stupid shade mechanic update.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    @Wakani.1829 said:
    Disclaimer: i didn't make this video, i stumbled on it on youtube, so full credit goes to Daelin Dwin and the people who helped him make the video.
    [video]

    This is so true! Exactly the points people criticize. And the part about the devaluation of legendary gear... oh yes, spot on (I, for once, will not go for another set of legendary armor, because it's become pointless with this new gear template system; I wish I hadn't wasted so much gold on now mostly useless legendary upgrades).

    The point's raised are on point, and quite honestly, it only angers me even more that arenanet didnt simply copy the arcDPS templates, since they were quite litterally perfect the way they were.

    I had hoped for such a system as well, were things get simply swapped in your inventory. It makes no sense to have the stuff now lingering in limbus; we have enough inventory space by now, plus people who really profit from it, because they have tons of equipment and builds, won't be able to use the system properly anyway, because they will have to pay up for it and might not be satisfied with the 6-tabs limit.

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Seems I'll still use Arcdps.

    If that will still be possible, I am now considering installing ArcDPS, to be honest, after seeing that it can switch gear as well. :+1:

  • Acheron.4731Acheron.4731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Wakani.1829 said:
    Disclaimer: i didn't make this video, i stumbled on it on youtube, so full credit goes to Daelin Dwin and the people who helped him make the video.
    [video]

    This is so true! Exactly the points people criticize. And the part about the devaluation of legendary gear... oh yes, spot on (I, for once, will not go for another set of legendary armor, because it's become pointless with this new gear template system; I wish I hadn't wasted so much gold on now mostly useless legendary upgrades).

    The point's raised are on point, and quite honestly, it only angers me even more that arenanet didnt simply copy the arcDPS templates, since they were quite litterally perfect the way they were.

    I had hoped for such a system as well, were things get simply swapped in your inventory. It makes no sense to have the stuff now lingering in limbus; we have enough inventory space by now, plus people who really profit from it, because they have tons of equipment and builds, won't be able to use the system properly anyway, because they will have to pay up for it and might not be satisfied with the 6-tabs limit.

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Seems I'll still use Arcdps.

    If that will still be possible, I am now considering installing ArcDPS, to be honest, after seeing that it can switch gear as well. :+1:

    Arcdps will no longer work unfortunately

    A true friend of the crown

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Acheron.4731 said:
    Arcdps will no longer work unfortunately

    That was to be expected.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    kitten it, he thought of the copy paste idea i had.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @style.6173 said:
    It is definitely odd that ANET worked on this for so long and still ended up with a design that is less efficient than arcdps or gw1.

    Well, they did work on it shorter than delta did. No matter what they were saying for the first 5 years of the game, the stream made it clear that the actual work started less than 2 years ago, and only after delta released his arc templates. We also don;t know how many people were working on it, and whether they were also working on other stuff in that time.

    @Funky.4861 said:
    You would have paid 2000 gems to store 100 chat codes- are you crazy?

    Still way better than pay 25k gems to make the current system working at lower-than-that capacity for 9 classes...

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Seems I'll still use Arcdps.

    Good luck with that. Word is that ANet worked a deal to get that plugin shut down once their update goes live. Arc may be better in just about every way, but you probably won't be using it.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @style.6173 said:
    It is definitely odd that ANET worked on this for so long and still ended up with a design that is less efficient than arcdps or gw1.

    Its meant to do a task while also making money to keep the game running. Why are you all tripping on this?

  • Nick.5276Nick.5276 Member ✭✭

    It's like you are renting a house. ($60 for GW2 at release, $50 expansion at release, both now free, costs for expansions since)
    A couple of months in you think, man I could use some air conditioning. So you ask the landlord and they say "Fine. There's ducting there and the set up but you'll have to remove your system when I install my version."
    OK! you say and talk to your friend who hooks up the system for free and off you go! It's temperamental and your friend keeps tinkering but it has heaps of controls, settings, flexibility and works well most of the time.
    Seven years later your landlord says "I'm installing a new AC system. It doesn't have nearly as many of the options, fewer controls and less flexibility. You'll have to pay for additional features to. "
    And you say "Bye."

    The code for the build template system was already there from GW1, none of the other games I've played have charged "Extra" for a build/gear template system even when introduced later, other build systems have been as good, if not better for being provided by the game developer.

    So for me Anet has shown how moneytisingly hungry they have become.

    Before you mention it. GW2 does not need to make money to continue to be in business. As long as the balance sheet balances, they are good to go. New features don't even need new money, just move the focus of features around on the schedule. Clear plans, forecasts and asset allocation are essential for good work practice, but I shouldn't have to remind them of that.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I found a few other threads that may address your issue. Hopefully they help! Good luck!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/search?Search=Build+templates

  • Patty.3268Patty.3268 Member ✭✭✭

    Besides what others already said, you get some free slots and only have to pay for extra slots. It's the same with bag or character slots, and as far as I remember, there weren't many complaints about having to pay for extra slots there. If there have been any at all.

  • Patty.3268Patty.3268 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @style.6173 said:
    It is definitely odd that ANET worked on this for so long and still ended up with a design that is less efficient than arcdps or gw1.

    Its meant to do a task while also making money to keep the game running. Why are you all tripping on this?

    Because it is a slap in the face. When we heard we were getting build templates, we expected that we were getting something that was easy to use, functional, and free, as it is in other games and in free add-ons to GW2. What we got is a cumbersome system that you have to pay extra to get it to work on a basic level, and we're losing the far superior version that exists with the free add-ons. Changing builds is part of the game, and it is clear that Anet respects us so little that they won't even afford us that basic QoL feature.

    Well, we actually do get an easy and functional system and we don't need pay for the basic version, just for extra slots. I'm fine with people not liking Anet's template system and prefering the one from ArcDps, but that is still no reason to twist facts.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Agrotera.1254 said:
    Maybe it is just me, but, if you (not you specifically) are going to make a video giving your opinion on something, basically bashing it, then it might be a good idea to educate yourself on it, at the very least have your facts straight, before you come out looking like an idiot, which the maker of this video did to perfection, the idiot part that is. =)

    It is quite obvious that the maker of this video does not have a clue how Build Templates work but he thinks that it is ok to make this video and give his opinion on it, and he totally expects everyone to take his word for how bad it is. The only bad thing that I saw was his opinion. =)

    You should take your own advice more seriously. ;) Even though GW2 cannot use the exact same build template system GW1 used, due to a different skill system, the main point the video creator made was: GW1 was saving builds locally, which meant an unlimited amount of saved builds and no additional server involvement. This is exactly what ArcDPS does, too.

    ANet could have created the same system for GW2, but they decided against it, mainly for the money, thereby complicating things a lot by saving builds to their servers (with limited database entries, hence limiting the amount of template slots) and having gear saved in a new "armory" database table on the servers as well instead of leaving it in a character's inventory table and simply swapping the items.

  • @Patty.3268 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @style.6173 said:
    It is definitely odd that ANET worked on this for so long and still ended up with a design that is less efficient than arcdps or gw1.

    Its meant to do a task while also making money to keep the game running. Why are you all tripping on this?

    Because it is a slap in the face. When we heard we were getting build templates, we expected that we were getting something that was easy to use, functional, and free, as it is in other games and in free add-ons to GW2. What we got is a cumbersome system that you have to pay extra to get it to work on a basic level, and we're losing the far superior version that exists with the free add-ons. Changing builds is part of the game, and it is clear that Anet respects us so little that they won't even afford us that basic QoL feature.

    Well, we actually do get an easy and functional system and we don't need pay for the basic version, just for extra slots. I'm fine with people not liking Anet's template system and prefering the one from ArcDps, but that is still no reason to twist facts.

    You lie by omission then accuse me of twisting facts all while ignoring what I have actually said. There are countless examples of how the template system is insubstantial and cumbersome. Respect them if you want to treated with any seriousness.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    people wanted these and some even said they would pay
    Some people moan Anet don't listen.
    I say next time be careful what you wish for.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think you will find the original Guildwars templates that some of you keep harping on about were less complicated for one - skills only no armour or weapons - a code you just saved to a file.
    These took much longer to develop and are not only skills right? They change everything from skills to armour to weapon and more.
    You can't say you want some thing and even pay for it then complain when anet listens that you have to pay for it.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Dami.5046 said:
    people wanted these and some even said they would pay
    Some people moan Anet don't listen.
    I say next time be careful what you wish for.

    I still don't think that the monetization is the main issue here. No one, in their wildest dreams, would have thought that the number of templates would be limited (whether you pay or not), especially regarding the amount you can save, or that build templates could not be a saved locally like they were in GW1 (and with ArcDPS, too), or that gear templates would further complicate things rather than being comfortable to use. People's expectations of the templates design was merely different, based on their past experiences.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I think you will find the original Guildwars templates that some of you keep harping on about were less complicated for one - skills only no armour or weapons - a code you just saved to a file.

    Still no excuse for shared builds being saved in a server-sided storage and being so ridiculously limited in number.

    These took much longer to develop and are not only skills right?

    Right. Yet, they could have had it much easier had they not created a gear storage for equipped items. There was no desperate need nor demand for that, as it's not only more work to create but also complicates things for ascended and legendary gear (which can no longer be swapped between characters as easily as before) and devaluates one of the two main purposes of legendary gear (namely taking up less inventory space than having several ascended sets).

    You can't say you want some thing and even pay for it then complain when anet listens that you have to pay for it.

    No one ever wanted that (i.e. the aforementioned things).

  • YMIHere.9580YMIHere.9580 Member ✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    It's only the third system, the one that switches gear, that is new - and it's also done in a very limiting way, as it requires you to build a separate storage to utilize it, and cannot use gear from the inventory you've already had. Thus, forcing you into additional gemshop purchases if you wish to utilize the system, even if you've long ago invested into solving that problem, by (for example) buying additional bag slots. Or bigger bags. Or legendary armor.

    What? Where do we have to build a separate storage? Anet had to build the separate storage. Everything I saw has this "armory" just as a hidden backend system that they use to keep track of your gear. Say you switch from a set with two one handed weapons to a set with one two handed weapon? Where does that extra weapon go? Right at the top of your bags where the rest of the loot to be salvaged and sold goes? Are they supposed to be able to detect everyone's specific inventory sorting system and know where you want it placed in your bags? I'm pretty sure this "armory" inventory is only for them to be able to keep track of your gear and not lose it while allowing you to switch sets on the fly.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:
    people wanted these and some even said they would pay
    Some people moan Anet don't listen.
    I say next time be careful what you wish for.

    That has been my experience with anet so far. Be careful what you ask for, because Anet will find a way to change it into something you definitely didn't want.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @YMIHere.9580 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    It's only the third system, the one that switches gear, that is new - and it's also done in a very limiting way, as it requires you to build a separate storage to utilize it, and cannot use gear from the inventory you've already had. Thus, forcing you into additional gemshop purchases if you wish to utilize the system, even if you've long ago invested into solving that problem, by (for example) buying additional bag slots. Or bigger bags. Or legendary armor.

    What? Where do we have to build a separate storage?

    ..."buy" a separate storage. Autocorrection got me here.

    Anet had to build the separate storage. Everything I saw has this "armory" just as a hidden backend system that they use to keep track of your gear. Say you switch from a set with two one handed weapons to a set with one two handed weapon? Where does that extra weapon go? Right at the top of your bags where the rest of the loot to be salvaged and sold goes? Are they supposed to be able to detect everyone's specific inventory sorting system and know where you want it placed in your bags? I'm pretty sure this "armory" inventory is only for them to be able to keep track of your gear and not lose it while allowing you to switch sets on the fly.

    Suuure it is. And it had dfinitely nothing to do with removing the other options some people might pick, that would not require further gemshop purchases. I mean, for example, it is so obvious someone with legendary gear would need those additional gear tabs to utilize their alternate stat sets.[/sarcasm]

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E-SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.
    Oh and another thing, you don't need to use them it's a QOL thing. We did quite well for 7 odd years. NO one is forcing you to use them or buy anymore.
    Much ado about nothing.
    Again.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @YMIHere.9580 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    It's only the third system, the one that switches gear, that is new - and it's also done in a very limiting way, as it requires you to build a separate storage to utilize it, and cannot use gear from the inventory you've already had. Thus, forcing you into additional gemshop purchases if you wish to utilize the system, even if you've long ago invested into solving that problem, by (for example) buying additional bag slots. Or bigger bags. Or legendary armor.

    What? Where do we have to build a separate storage?

    ..."buy" a separate storage. Autocorrection got me here.

    No biggie, I took it the same way as building up your bank storage would just mean buying more tabs.

    Anet had to build the separate storage. Everything I saw has this "armory" just as a hidden backend system that they use to keep track of your gear. Say you switch from a set with two one handed weapons to a set with one two handed weapon? Where does that extra weapon go? Right at the top of your bags where the rest of the loot to be salvaged and sold goes? Are they supposed to be able to detect everyone's specific inventory sorting system and know where you want it placed in your bags? I'm pretty sure this "armory" inventory is only for them to be able to keep track of your gear and not lose it while allowing you to switch sets on the fly.

    Suuure it is. And it had dfinitely nothing to do with removing the other options some people might pick, that would not require further gemshop purchases. [/sarcasm]

    Are you meaning Arc? Otherwise I'm lost on how you got here on the gear templates. You don't have to use multiple gear templates. it's made in such a way that you can just use the first one like normal. Honestly, how does Arc handle the extra weapon with no replacement slot? I don't even see a way for people to effectively configure their inventory to deal with it just being kicked back to regular storage.

    The build system isn't great, even from my perspective of not using Arc's templates it's only a small upgrade. Making account builds unlimited client side, then selling the character bound ones as basically a hotkey (and by that I do mean cheap) seems like it would go a long way. The gear templates though, I think they've got a good system here.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Dami.5046 said:
    Here's the thing. In another thread people are asking for e-specs - PAID E_SPECS- saying they would be hidden behind a paywall anyway (expansion) so if that's the case then you could argue the same here.

    ...yeah, saw that. Asking for p2w is a bad idea. As most people in that thread mentioned, if you haven't noticed.
    I mean, there is also a thread where some people are asking for gw2 to be shut down and Anet starting work on GW3. I'm pretty sure most of the current players would not like it if Anet listened to those, though. Would you? Or would you be telling the angry players that "you were asking for it, why are you angry now", and that they don't need to pay for it if they don't like it?

    @YMIHere.9580 said:
    Are you meaning Arc?

    No, in this case i did mean the other options i mentioned already above - using a legendary gear or gear from inventory. I mean, forcing Arc to shut down its better functionality is bad, but that is a separate issue to what i was talking about.

    Honestly, how does Arc handle the extra weapon with no replacement slot?

    The same way the system handles currently replacing the gear manually. Yes, that means the second weapon does end up in inventory.

    I don't even see a way for people to effectively configure their inventory to deal with it just being kicked back to regular storage.

    People with arc were doing it for 2 years already. Anyway, it's a choice. Choice that we weren't offered, because it would let us use the system without having to shell out money for it.
    Notice, that with this new system that lets you put links to gear in the templates, this problem would have been solved anyway - the weapons would not have gotten kicked back to inventory, because they would have been in there (in the slot of you choosing) all along. Only their links would have been in templates.
    All that would have been necessary for it to work would be to separate templates (the tabs where links to gear would be placed), from actual storage (keeping the gear from which the links would originate).

    The build system isn't great, even from my perspective of not using Arc's templates it's only a small upgrade. Making account builds unlimited client side, then selling the character bound ones as basically a hotkey (and by that I do mean cheap) seems like it would go a long way. The gear templates though, I think they've got a good system here.

    Gear templates system really should have been separated into gear storage and gear templates - with the latter system being uncapped, and able to use gear from inventory if we so chose, and being able to truly utilize legendary gear.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    (bad edit)

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • YMIHere.9580YMIHere.9580 Member ✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @YMIHere.9580 said:
    Are you meaning Arc?

    No, in this case i did mean the other options i mentioned already above - using a legendary gear or gear from inventory. I mean, forcing Arc to shut down its better functionality is bad, but that is a separate issue to what i was talking about.

    I don't think it's a good idea to force Arc to stop their templates, especially since I view this system as better. What has been taken away as far as legendary gear? I didn't see anything stopping you from keeping them on that first build slot and just changing stats. It's interaction with Arc I understand as a downgrade.

    Honestly, how does Arc handle the extra weapon with no replacement slot?

    The same way the system handles currently replacing the gear manually. Yes, that means the second weapon does end up in inventory.

    I don't even see a way for people to effectively configure their inventory to deal with it just being kicked back to regular storage.

    People with arc were doing it for 2 years already. Anyway, it's a choice. Choice that we weren't offered, because it would let us use the system without having to shell out money for it.

    See I feel bad about this, but now it's a choice I'm offered. I always stayed away from Arc's build templates because I've lost items to addons doing that kickback before in other games. Even with all these different types of bags in GW2 I didn't see a good way to save myself from accidentally trashing my gear because it was now unsorted among the other junk. I'd rather we both had our choices to be honest, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to hear they didn't want Arc to be competing.

    The build system isn't great, even from my perspective of not using Arc's templates it's only a small upgrade. Making account builds unlimited client side, then selling the character bound ones as basically a hotkey (and by that I do mean cheap) seems like it would go a long way. The gear templates though, I think they've got a good system here.

    Gear templates system really should have been separated into gear storage and gear templates - with the latter system being uncapped, and able to use gear from inventory if we so chose, and being able to truly utilize legendary gear.

    I still don't see how you can't have your legendary gear on your character as normal in slot one and just change stats. Losing Arc functionality I recognize as a downgrade. I still feel like there's some cool things they could do with legendaries to appease people that just don't quite gain as much from this system (ignoring Arc), like having a "legendary armory" that is not tied to characters so you don't have to swap gear back and forth to different characters.

    "Notice, that with this new system that lets you put links to gear in the templates, this problem would have been solved anyway - the weapons would not have gotten kicked back to inventory, because they would have been in there (in the slot of you choosing) all along. Only their links would have been in templates. All that would have been necessary for it to work would be to separate templates (the tabs where links to gear would be placed), from actual storage (keeping the gear from which the links would originate)."

    You mean like how the build linking works? Isn't that going to cost inventory slots? Unless you're assigning multiple weapons to the same slot, which is bound to cause problems resulting in that kickback anyway. I don't see the benefit from the already proposed system that can only save you slots.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @YMIHere.9580 said:
    What has been taken away as far as legendary gear?

    Nothing. the system is just bad for utilizing it. Instead of letting it shine by allowing the system a free access to all the stat combinations legendary gear can provide, it gets treated practically the same way as having several separate gear sets - for each stat combination you need a separate gear slot.

    I didn't see anything stopping you from keeping them on that first build slot and just changing stats.

    True, it works the old way just fine - but then, if you're doing all that manually, why would you need that part of templates anyway? I mean, it was supposed to help you manage your legendary gear better. It's not really doing that.

    See I feel bad about this, but now it's a choice I'm offered.

    No, it's a choice you won't be offered. The new system uses only the gear from gear slots. the only choice you will have is to not use the system at all.

    I still don't see how you can't have your legendary gear on your character as normal in slot one and just change stats.

    You can. It's the "choice" mentioned above - if you want to utilize your legendaries fully, you may decide to not use templates, and instead just ignore them. A gear most suited for having alot of build options, and the best thing you can do is to not use a system designed for helping you manage those build options with it. That's... hardly a mark of a good design, don't you think?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @YMIHere.9580 said:
    What has been taken away as far as legendary gear?

    Nothing. the system is just bad for utilizing it. Instead of letting it shine by allowing the system a free access to all the stat combinations legendary gear can provide, it gets treated practically the same way as having several separate gear sets - for each stat combination you need a separate gear slot.

    I didn't see anything stopping you from keeping them on that first build slot and just changing stats.

    True, it works the old way just fine - but then, if you're doing all that manually, why would you need that part of templates anyway? I mean, it was supposed to help you manage your legendary gear better. It's not really doing that.

    See I feel bad about this, but now it's a choice I'm offered.

    No, it's a choice you won't be offered. The new system uses only the gear from gear slots. the only choice you will have is to not use the system at all.

    I mean that in a completely selfish way as Arc build templates have been a choice I've ignored for fear of trashing my gear. This separate armory stops the kickback of gear into the junk pile, and makes the quick swaps a reality for me now. I don't want it to come at the expense of other peoples' choices as far as Arc goes, but in a vacuum it seems like a good system to me.

    I still don't see how you can't have your legendary gear on your character as normal in slot one and just change stats.

    You can. It's the "choice" mentioned above - if you want to utilize your legendaries fully, you may decide to not use templates, and instead just ignore them. A gear most suited for having alot of build options, and the best thing you can do is to not use a system designed for helping you manage those build options with it. That's... hardly a mark of a good design, don't you think?

    You're probably right. I don't have any legendaries so it fits me great, but it'd be a shame to waste all this work and not have any benefit to their most dedicated players. How do you feel about a legendary armory so you don't have to swap gear from character to character? I feel like that is a relatively easy thing to add to this system, but I'd like to see more ideas early to be added to something like that. Do you currently have to use tokens to change skins on legendaries? Maybe they can cut that and use the gear sets as more of a cosmetic thing.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Donari.5237 said:
    Halfway through he complains about six slots for nine professions while mousing over the character build tabs. I may be misremembering, but aren't those character specific? So it's six slots for -one- profession, individualized per character that has them unlocked. The left hand side is overall builds that can be shared, and 24 there does seem limiting if you want to keep swapping out the ones you have individually saved from a vast library of builds (I don't, myself, but I can see there are those that like to change builds every ten feet). But I think he's wrong on that particular bit so I can't say the points are all on point here.

    Yea 6 account wide slots when you got 9 classes mean you cant have 1 of each class in the account storage for free, that what he says seems wrong and complain about.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:
    people wanted these and some even said they would pay
    Some people moan Anet don't listen.
    I say next time be careful what you wish for.

    That has been my experience with anet so far. Be careful what you ask for, because Anet will find a way to change it into something you definitely didn't want.

    Didn't want? You mean asked for something and claim they would pay to get anet motivated to develop it only to chuck it back in their faces?
    Not understanding what part of these templates wasn't asked for?
    People wanted templates - check
    people said they would pay - check
    people never happy - check check check.

    People wanted to pay a fair once off price...not have templates character bound and limited to 6.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Donari.5237 said:
    Halfway through he complains about six slots for nine professions while mousing over the character build tabs. I may be misremembering, but aren't those character specific? So it's six slots for -one- profession, individualized per character that has them unlocked.

    It's a bit more complicated. Those 6 slots aren't really templates, and they work differently. What they are is 6 alternate build selection tabs, with each having a hotkey assigned. It is easy to switch between them, but they do have one flaw: like i said, they are not templates. If you need to make a quick adjustments on your currently active build, you need to remember, that it changes not only what you are currently using, but also what is assigned to that tab. So, you need to remember to revert that change later on, before you switch to something else. It's only the 6 free, 24 total account wide slots that work like real templates. And that's less than 3 per class. So, one template per espec, and 6 templates left for anything else that might come up. That's... well, not good enough.

    Notice, by the way, that this means that if you want to utilize the account wide template slots, you probably need to leave at least one of the per-character slots free, so you will be able to load templates in your actual selection without overwriting anything.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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