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Replenishing Despair

Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 8, 2019 in Revenant

I think we all know, that this trait is a massive kitten-dump

So why not make it better?
1sec cooldown + only 126heal (150~ with high healing power)

This is cra-p! it should be
A} at least 400 healing (550~ with 1500 HealPower)
Or B} 200healing without any cooldown

Replenishing Despair 20 votes

A is good
0%
B is good
5%
Justine.6351 1 vote
Both should be used
5%
Thornwolf.9721 1 vote
This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced
90%
Ertrak.9506narcx.3570Kravey.4563LucianTheAngelic.7054Raknar.4735Pterikdactyl.7630ventusthunder.5067Aeolus.3615Arkantos.7460Clownmug.8357Arkaile.5604Yannir.4132Oslaf Beinir.5842KidRoleplay.3615Leap Of Faith.8263aceofbass.2163Doto.6357Virdo.1540 18 votes
i dont have a rev
0%

Comments

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    If you have any other Ideas for a improvement that could actually make this trait worth taking, Then write! :)

  • This is one of those traits that can get broken very quickly if not put in check. It triggers for non-damaging conditions, and you don't want a condi build to inflict less damage per attack then what this trait would heal.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The ICD is what makes it terrible, my suggestion and still the same as in the past would be to remove the ICD.

    Honestly given that chosing this trait means giving up on Resistance, it should also be effectively healing on each stacks before buffing the healing.

    This might sound OP on paper for some, but remember Resistance nullifies /all/ conditions including damage bonuses, therefor healing for as much as 5k on a condition burst is nothing short of OP when the other alternative completely nullifies it and damage still kicks in.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019
    This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    Every second, heal for a small amount times each different kind of condition on you, and not just once on initial hit.

  • This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    I think corruption traitline needs some reworks anyway

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2019
    This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    @KidRoleplay.3615 said:
    Every second, heal for a small amount times each different kind of condition on you, and not just once on initial hit.

    I think that'd be awesome. In fact, it'd be nice if it was just combined with Demonic Defiance to give it relevance beyond Mallyx:
    Heal yourself every interval for each condition you have on you. Using a legendary demon stance skill grants resistance for a short duration.

    Then move Maniacal Persistence to the major master tier and boom--three traits dedicated to condition manipulation:
    Demonic Defiance > Maniacal Persistence > Pulsating Pestilence.

    Regardless, the trait is utter trash--one of the worst of the entire class--and needs attention.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭
    This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    It's dumb to even try and fix this trait... It's an insanely tough trait to balance, and somewhat of a waste of effort to even try given how ironic/necessary the other two traits at that tier are. Kill it or merge it with something else and make something new. The obvious choice being something that would support a power Mallyx build better than this; enhanced chill effects or something.

  • Doto.6357Doto.6357 Member ✭✭
    This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    This trait would have to be godly to justify dropping the resistance trait for it

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dont see why stuff like this cant have a stacking effect that builds to a cooldown instead of cooldown on every tick.

    this way it can be effective while also balanced.

    would look like this

    Tic(heal), Tick(heal), Tick(heal), 2 second cooldown, Tick(heal),etc

  • Do you feel the despair brought forth by this trait? How it all just seems so pointless? How it makes you feel such... DESPAIR!

    Junko Enoshima would be proud.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's too much hate around this trait, it could be extremely good without the ICD that ruins it.

    It's actually very comparable to "Might Makes Right" in a polar opposite and lack of endurance. Which I can see a lot of fun coming out of it given how burst of conditions tends to happen and that as a Revenant, even without Resistance, it's possible to fully mitigate condition damage with proper setups or partially do so.

    Just, UGH. They need to remove that ICD and make Stacks count. Simple as that, I hope they can see this, don't scrap it, tweak it the right way.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think keeping it on the same lines mechanically that it is right now will make it either too weak or too strong depending on how much you buff it.
    An accurate way to do it would have it return 5% of all incoming condition damage as healing (even while under resistance). That way is scales in proportion to damaging conditions overall reducing the total damage you take from them over time.

    After all its goal is to not really heavily heal you its just to give you more hp than you would have otherwise had if you would have not taken it. ITs just a minor means of sustain.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    I think keeping it on the same lines mechanically that it is right now will make it either too weak or too strong depending on how much you buff it.
    An accurate way to do it would have it return 5% of all incoming condition damage as healing (even while under resistance). That way is scales in proportion to damaging conditions overall reducing the total damage you take from them over time.

    After all its goal is to not really heavily heal you its just to give you more hp than you would have otherwise had if you would have not taken it. ITs just a minor means of sustain.

    As previously said, it does not prevent conditions from doing anything. There's no way the trait can get overpowered if latter can already mitigate more than that it could ever heal in the worst case.

    It needs to be put in line with the rest and it's good to go, not only it will make condition damage reduction further more attractive, but it will also allow to synergize better with other legends which is the goal here.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    I think keeping it on the same lines mechanically that it is right now will make it either too weak or too strong depending on how much you buff it.
    An accurate way to do it would have it return 5% of all incoming condition damage as healing (even while under resistance). That way is scales in proportion to damaging conditions overall reducing the total damage you take from them over time.

    After all its goal is to not really heavily heal you its just to give you more hp than you would have otherwise had if you would have not taken it. ITs just a minor means of sustain.

    As previously said, it does not prevent conditions from doing anything. There's no way the trait can get overpowered if latter can already mitigate more than that it could ever heal in the worst case.

    It could granted things like resistance which does not stop conditions from being applied which will proc the trait for healing while not taking damage from conditions and as someone else said not every condition does damage which would convert to 100% healing in those instances. In those instances no you should not be getting 200-500 points of hp back per trigger for an adept trait.

    The goal of this trait is generally to give you health that is not planned to be stored ideally its like giving the player false vitality over time. Each time it procs you get more hp back that you otherwise would not be getting. Its a similar case to necormancers vampiric signet which by the way only heals about 400 points when you apply a grandmaster trait ontop of it. Considering almost all attacks in the game inflict some kind of condition you will likely trigger it at least ever second if not every other second.

    Why should you get procs of 400 healing + more with healing power for an adept trait alone?
    Sorry I cant agree this can get pretty busted very quick for a player who knows what they are doing.

    I agree the current version of the trait is not good but your suggestions are way too strong "for simply getting hit with a condition." IF the trait was a grandmaster... perhaps required you to perform a certain action then i could agree with the healing numbers you are suggesting.

    It needs to be put in line with the rest and it's good to go, not only it will make condition damage reduction further more attractive, but it will also allow to synergize better with other legends which is the goal here.

    Keep in mind that as of the moment this trait is an adept trait it cant or rather shouldn't be that powerful in general for simply getting a condi slapped on you.
    Keep in mind most legends dont synergize with each other this is a core flaw of rev. Each legend is a vastly different person or being that comes with vastly different traits. They wont always smoothly synergize with one another.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    Remove icd and reduce healing, from 1xx to 60.

    Or make it a direct heal trait, when player pulls conditions from allies only it will heal arround player by pulse based on conditions lulled

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2019

    Losing the ability to have up to 6 seconds Resistance with no boon duration back to back, stopping all effects such as Vulnerability that is easily stacked is more than enough given that if you pick this trait, Resistance will be something that you rarely ever have without Spirit Boon and Pain Absorption, not counting the Runes that are an extremely important slot for the Revenant. It also breaks synergy with Demonic Resistance that on Paper with the added Resistance effect of denying anything any Professions would have extra effects that adds damage for specific conditions, most notably no 25% added damage from 25 Vulnerability also, with Protection 33% and 20% added Damage Reduction is a lot of mitigation

    Resistance is an extremely powerful boon, yet it's still there in the Adept Tier as well. You can trust me on the fact that "this" idea won't be broken as I know very well from A to Z how Revenant works overall and that not having any Resistance makes you pretty worthless if you want to be Condition based, that Venom Enhancement is a very powerful trait also used in bruiser builds, that there is also powerful synergies with Core, Herald and Renegade that would benefit from this trait further but not exactly be far from OP whether you had to pick either of these 3 traits. It often and always come to player skill, knowledge and risk coming forward to it.

    It's a fair trade to get healed for any conditions/stacks applied with no cooldown because the incoming damage will easily start to overshadow that sustain (Power and Condition) whether you have max healing power or not, this one doesn't go higher than 200 in PvE/WvW and 140 in PvP, that's if you wanna be useless of course. Unlike many professions, Revenant does have harder choices of traits to pick filling certain roles without becoming worthless on the rest.

    Remember, it doesn't mitigate ANYTHING, it's just raw heal.

    • Power and Condition Damage will still get all their benefits on you.
    • Power will always hurt you more than without Resistance because of the other conditions on you.
    • Condition Damage will always hurt you more over time than without Resistance because of the other conditions as well as it's own damage constantly on going.

    Demonic Defiance is that good and Replenishing Despair deserves this buff. Bursts of 5k healing considering a perfect scenario on a blast of effects that Power and Condition is more that likely to take it away on the spot is reasonable when you can stop yourself from dying altogether with the other option.

    You don't pick corruption if you're not going to do or work with conditions in the slightest. It's a waste of damage, traits and sustain altogether. Be better with Retribution in other scenario's as well as even Devastation with other legends for that regard because avoidance is already considered a better option in those meta's, this is also why Condition Revenant is highly frowned upon, because it forces you to play like some sort of masochist to be effective.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Losing the ability to have up to 6 seconds Resistance with no boon duration back to back, stopping all effects such as Vulnerability that is easily stacked is more than enough given that if you pick this trait, Resistance will be something that you rarely ever have without Spirit Boon and Pain Absorption, not counting the Runes that are an extremely important slot for the Revenant. It also breaks synergy with Demonic Resistance that on Paper with the added Resistance effect of denying anything any Professions would have extra effects that adds damage for specific conditions, most notably no 25% added damage from 25 Vulnerability also, with Protection 33% and 20% added Damage Reduction is a lot of mitigation

    Resistance is an extremely powerful boon, yet it's still there in the Adept Tier as well. You can trust me on the fact that "this" idea won't be broken as I know very well from A to Z how Revenant works overall and that not having any Resistance makes you pretty worthless if you want to be Condition based, that Venom Enhancement is a very powerful trait also used in bruiser builds, that there is also powerful synergies with Core, Herald and Renegade that would benefit from this trait further but not exactly be far from OP whether you had to pick either of these 3 traits. It often and always come to player skill, knowledge and risk coming forward to it.

    It's a fair trade to get healed for any conditions/stacks applied with no cooldown because the incoming damage will easily start to overshadow that sustain (Power and Condition) whether you have max healing power or not, this one doesn't go higher than 200 in PvE/WvW and 140 in PvP, that's if you wanna be useless of course. Unlike many professions, Revenant does have harder choices of traits to pick filling certain roles without becoming worthless on the rest.

    Remember, it doesn't mitigate ANYTHING, it's just raw heal.

    • Power and Condition Damage will still get all their benefits on you.
    • Power will always hurt you more than without Resistance because of the other conditions on you.
    • Condition Damage will always hurt you more over time than without Resistance because of the other conditions as well as it's own damage constantly on going.

    Demonic Defiance is that good and Replenishing Despair deserves this buff. Bursts of 5k healing considering a perfect scenario on a blast of effects that Power and Condition is more that likely to take it away on the spot is reasonable when you can stop yourself from dying altogether with the other option.

    You don't pick corruption if you're not going to do or work with conditions in the slightest. It's a waste of damage, traits and sustain altogether. Be better with Retribution in other scenario's as well as even Devastation with other legends for that regard because avoidance is already considered a better option in those meta's, this is also why Condition Revenant is highly frowned upon, because it forces you to play like some sort of masochist to be effective.

    I hate to say it but while i think it does deserves buffs not as heavy of a buff as you are calling out sorry no.
    ITs not a grand master trait and the level of power you want to give it is 100% on part with the power of a grandmaster sustain trait.
    IF the trait was a grandmaster i could agree with you maybe but as it sits right now i still say, yes buff it, your idea/ level of buff , no thats too strong for its slot.

  • Doto.6357Doto.6357 Member ✭✭
    This trait is garbage and should be removed/replaced

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Losing the ability to have up to 6 seconds Resistance with no boon duration back to back, stopping all effects such as Vulnerability that is easily stacked is more than enough given that if you pick this trait, Resistance will be something that you rarely ever have without Spirit Boon and Pain Absorption, not counting the Runes that are an extremely important slot for the Revenant. It also breaks synergy with Demonic Resistance that on Paper with the added Resistance effect of denying anything any Professions would have extra effects that adds damage for specific conditions, most notably no 25% added damage from 25 Vulnerability also, with Protection 33% and 20% added Damage Reduction is a lot of mitigation

    Resistance is an extremely powerful boon, yet it's still there in the Adept Tier as well. You can trust me on the fact that "this" idea won't be broken as I know very well from A to Z how Revenant works overall and that not having any Resistance makes you pretty worthless if you want to be Condition based, that Venom Enhancement is a very powerful trait also used in bruiser builds, that there is also powerful synergies with Core, Herald and Renegade that would benefit from this trait further but not exactly be far from OP whether you had to pick either of these 3 traits. It often and always come to player skill, knowledge and risk coming forward to it.

    It's a fair trade to get healed for any conditions/stacks applied with no cooldown because the incoming damage will easily start to overshadow that sustain (Power and Condition) whether you have max healing power or not, this one doesn't go higher than 200 in PvE/WvW and 140 in PvP, that's if you wanna be useless of course. Unlike many professions, Revenant does have harder choices of traits to pick filling certain roles without becoming worthless on the rest.

    Remember, it doesn't mitigate ANYTHING, it's just raw heal.

    • Power and Condition Damage will still get all their benefits on you.
    • Power will always hurt you more than without Resistance because of the other conditions on you.
    • Condition Damage will always hurt you more over time than without Resistance because of the other conditions as well as it's own damage constantly on going.

    Demonic Defiance is that good and Replenishing Despair deserves this buff. Bursts of 5k healing considering a perfect scenario on a blast of effects that Power and Condition is more that likely to take it away on the spot is reasonable when you can stop yourself from dying altogether with the other option.

    You don't pick corruption if you're not going to do or work with conditions in the slightest. It's a waste of damage, traits and sustain altogether. Be better with Retribution in other scenario's as well as even Devastation with other legends for that regard because avoidance is already considered a better option in those meta's, this is also why Condition Revenant is highly frowned upon, because it forces you to play like some sort of masochist to be effective.

    I hate to say it but while i think it does deserves buffs not as heavy of a buff as you are calling out sorry no.
    ITs not a grand master trait and the level of power you want to give it is 100% on part with the power of a grandmaster sustain trait.
    IF the trait was a grandmaster i could agree with you maybe but as it sits right now i still say, yes buff it, your idea/ level of buff , no thats too strong for its slot.

    The reason he wants to buff it like that is because right now it competes with a trait that completely negates condition damage. To actually be a viable alternative, this trait would not need to do a lot of healing.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Doto.6357 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Losing the ability to have up to 6 seconds Resistance with no boon duration back to back, stopping all effects such as Vulnerability that is easily stacked is more than enough given that if you pick this trait, Resistance will be something that you rarely ever have without Spirit Boon and Pain Absorption, not counting the Runes that are an extremely important slot for the Revenant. It also breaks synergy with Demonic Resistance that on Paper with the added Resistance effect of denying anything any Professions would have extra effects that adds damage for specific conditions, most notably no 25% added damage from 25 Vulnerability also, with Protection 33% and 20% added Damage Reduction is a lot of mitigation

    Resistance is an extremely powerful boon, yet it's still there in the Adept Tier as well. You can trust me on the fact that "this" idea won't be broken as I know very well from A to Z how Revenant works overall and that not having any Resistance makes you pretty worthless if you want to be Condition based, that Venom Enhancement is a very powerful trait also used in bruiser builds, that there is also powerful synergies with Core, Herald and Renegade that would benefit from this trait further but not exactly be far from OP whether you had to pick either of these 3 traits. It often and always come to player skill, knowledge and risk coming forward to it.

    It's a fair trade to get healed for any conditions/stacks applied with no cooldown because the incoming damage will easily start to overshadow that sustain (Power and Condition) whether you have max healing power or not, this one doesn't go higher than 200 in PvE/WvW and 140 in PvP, that's if you wanna be useless of course. Unlike many professions, Revenant does have harder choices of traits to pick filling certain roles without becoming worthless on the rest.

    Remember, it doesn't mitigate ANYTHING, it's just raw heal.

    • Power and Condition Damage will still get all their benefits on you.
    • Power will always hurt you more than without Resistance because of the other conditions on you.
    • Condition Damage will always hurt you more over time than without Resistance because of the other conditions as well as it's own damage constantly on going.

    Demonic Defiance is that good and Replenishing Despair deserves this buff. Bursts of 5k healing considering a perfect scenario on a blast of effects that Power and Condition is more that likely to take it away on the spot is reasonable when you can stop yourself from dying altogether with the other option.

    You don't pick corruption if you're not going to do or work with conditions in the slightest. It's a waste of damage, traits and sustain altogether. Be better with Retribution in other scenario's as well as even Devastation with other legends for that regard because avoidance is already considered a better option in those meta's, this is also why Condition Revenant is highly frowned upon, because it forces you to play like some sort of masochist to be effective.

    I hate to say it but while i think it does deserves buffs not as heavy of a buff as you are calling out sorry no.
    ITs not a grand master trait and the level of power you want to give it is 100% on part with the power of a grandmaster sustain trait.
    IF the trait was a grandmaster i could agree with you maybe but as it sits right now i still say, yes buff it, your idea/ level of buff , no thats too strong for its slot.

    The reason he wants to buff it like that is because right now it competes with a trait that completely negates condition damage. To actually be a viable alternative, this trait would not need to do a lot of healing.

    Which is fine but his numbers are high.
    As some one pointed out not every condition is damaging and can trigger this trait.
    Power classes even apply a good range of conditions like vuln, weakness, blind, cripple etc.
    To have these kinds of condition procking 400-500 hp heals on an adept level trait every second or 200 hp with no cd is not acceptable by any means.
    Ideally either thie trait needs to be changed to work as more of a counter to power directly or just murge this trait with the other that also helps negate condi damage and leave its numbers as is while making a new trait to replace it.

    There really shouldnt be 2 traits attempting to do the same thing now that you point this out.

    Perhaps thats the right play
    Putting Replenishing Despair and Demonic Defiance under 1 trait without changing their mechanics/numbers which makes both of them considerably stronger when put together

    A new trait is made in place of replenishing despair that provides a different functionality.

    How ever 400 hp per condi or 200 with no cd is considerably stronger than Demonic Defiance which reverses the roles. Which will lead to asking for buffs for Demonic Defiance as this is only 2 seconds of resistances which is 2 ticks of conditions every 5 seconds which could be not alot or alot depending on when the trait is triggered every 5 seconds.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    How ever 400 hp per condi or 200 with no cd is considerably stronger than Demonic Defiance which reverses the roles. Which will lead to asking for buffs for Demonic Defiance as this is only 2 seconds of resistances which is 2 ticks of conditions every 5 seconds which could be not alot or alot depending on when the trait is triggered every 5 seconds.

    My mistake, it's possible to have 13 seconds of Resistance given you do the math correctly in a solo situation which is not counting team situations and without boon duration or Rune. Sorry, I wasn't thinking of what I actually do nowadays.

    • Spirit Boon as you kick in Demon. 2 Seconds.
    • Pain Absorption is 2 seconds and triggers Demonic Defiance. 4 Seconds.
    • Empowering Misery has no ICD with Demonic Defiance. 2 Seconds.
    • ICD past 5 seconds thus, depending what you choose to do and if you care to have more, Pain Absorption for 4 Seconds again.
    • If you're Herald, can swap back to Glint, True Nature - Dragon can extend up to another 3 seconds if you care to have more Resistance on yourself and the one you gave with Pain Absorption to your team than Transfer from True Nature - Demon but that's a few cleansing from Facet to the team and potent transfer lost.
    • If you're Core, you have Ancient Echo that can give that 3 seconds without having to Legend Swap.

    Far from it, Replenishing Despair it's still extremely weak given that you will still take damage from the conditions as they are applied with Power or the Condition itself. All it does is minimize the damage because the only resistance that will be available is from Spirit Boon, Pain Absorption or Ancient Echo (Core) which is ineffective without the trait. Having the trait set that way effectively benefits spam in another way for those that will invest in traits like Versed In Stone with Jalis for Vengeful Hammer while also Breakrazor's Bastion with Righteous Rebel on Renegade is another one. Encouraging all sorts of builds to finally be played more often while you have no reliable Resistance time.

    I would prefer Replenishing Despair to be like Might Makes Right rather than just another Assassin's Annihilation or Steadfast Rejuvenation, because it's risky to even go for that many conditions and even if they buffed it to be 400 Healing per condition every 1 seconds, it would still be weaker than Demonic Defiance altogether. Regeneration with Facet of Light alone on Sage stats heals for that much every 2 seconds that you would have Resistance. Also just like any other build, investing in just Healing Power for one trait would make the player inherently ineffective to deal damage anyway because Resistance is what allows Condition Revenant to deal so much damage in the first place, this all basically changes the play style of it.

    200 HP per condition applied with no ICD, only possible with 2k+ Healing Power which is not achievable in PvP and in WvW is a waste of stats because you are already likely to die faster of condition pressure without Resistance anyway while those stats could be way more effectively used. Revenants can only cleanse so much without Glint and even with Ventari that is already weak, Transfer without Resistance are weak and riskier.

    Playing with the new trait drastically change the playstyle. Instead of being an actual condition bomb that Demonic Defiance allows you to be, it would be more viable to run with Diabolic Inferno and purely do the damage all along without Transfers and you don't want to get stuck with many conditions even if it heals you because you don't have the means to effectively carry them to do damage and not lose health at the same time.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    How ever 400 hp per condi or 200 with no cd is considerably stronger than Demonic Defiance which reverses the roles. Which will lead to asking for buffs for Demonic Defiance as this is only 2 seconds of resistances which is 2 ticks of conditions every 5 seconds which could be not alot or alot depending on when the trait is triggered every 5 seconds.

    My mistake, it's possible to have 13 seconds of Resistance given you do the math correctly in a solo situation which is not counting team situations and without boon duration or Rune. Sorry, I wasn't thinking of what I actually do nowadays.

    • Spirit Boon as you kick in Demon. 2 Seconds.
    • Pain Absorption is 2 seconds and triggers Demonic Defiance. 4 Seconds.
    • Empowering Misery has no ICD with Demonic Defiance. 2 Seconds.
    • ICD past 5 seconds thus, depending what you choose to do and if you care to have more, Pain Absorption for 4 Seconds again.
    • If you're Herald, can swap back to Glint, True Nature - Dragon can extend up to another 3 seconds if you care to have more Resistance on yourself and the one you gave with Pain Absorption to your team than Transfer from True Nature - Demon but that's a few cleansing from Facet to the team and potent transfer lost.
    • If you're Core, you have Ancient Echo that can give that 3 seconds without having to Legend Swap.

    Far from it, Replenishing Despair it's still extremely weak given that you will still take damage from the conditions as they are applied with Power or the Condition itself. All it does is minimize the damage because the only resistance that will be available is from Spirit Boon, Pain Absorption or Ancient Echo (Core) which is ineffective without the trait. Having the trait set that way effectively benefits spam in another way for those that will invest in traits like Versed In Stone with Jalis for Vengeful Hammer while also Breakrazor's Bastion with Righteous Rebel on Renegade is another one. Encouraging all sorts of builds to finally be played more often while you have no reliable Resistance time.

    I would prefer Replenishing Despair to be like Might Makes Right rather than just another Assassin's Annihilation or Steadfast Rejuvenation, because it's risky to even go for that many conditions and even if they buffed it to be 400 Healing per condition every 1 seconds, it would still be weaker than Demonic Defiance altogether. Regeneration with Facet of Light alone on Sage stats heals for that much every 2 seconds that you would have Resistance. Also just like any other build, investing in just Healing Power for one trait would make the player inherently ineffective to deal damage anyway because Resistance is what allows Condition Revenant to deal so much damage in the first place, this all basically changes the play style of it.

    200 HP per condition applied with no ICD, only possible with 2k+ Healing Power which is not achievable in PvP and in WvW is a waste of stats because you are already likely to die faster of condition pressure without Resistance anyway while those stats could be way more effectively used. Revenants can only cleanse so much without Glint and even with Ventari that is already weak, Transfer without Resistance are weak and riskier.

    Playing with the new trait drastically change the playstyle. Instead of being an actual condition bomb that Demonic Defiance allows you to be, it would be more viable to run with Diabolic Inferno and purely do the damage all along without Transfers and you don't want to get stuck with many conditions even if it heals you because you don't have the means to effectively carry them to do damage and not lose health at the same time.

    But even might makes right is a grandmaster
    Replenishing despair is not... this is why you cant expect the same healing regardless of how the trait works mechanically you cant have an adept thats effectively as strong as other classes sustain grandmasters.

    As long as the trait is an adept dont expect too much. Unless you can point out another adept which also heals just as much as your idea is looking to point out that works on a similar mechanic (requiring you to get hit or hit someone) which is as strong as what you are wanting to make it i simply cant agree no matter how you try to break it all down.

    If you want more defense against conditions take Demonic Defiance
    If you want a bit more healing against power builds which still inflict conditions but dont inflict as much damaging conditions take Replenishing Despair
    If you want to just go more glass take Venom Enhancement

    I wont agree with your reasoning to buff Replenishing as much as you are wanting so long as its an adept just because it does not compete with Demonic Defiance in terms of fighting off condition damage when thats clearly not that point of the trait.

    Its a lesser healing over time that can be seen arguably as a good trait against any build thats not condi in terms of aiding sustain (even more so depending on what other trait lines you stack it with.)

    Everyone might agree the trait needs a small buff or could be reworked however no one is going to agree that you should give it the strength of a grandmaster trait when its in an adept slot.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Losing the ability to have up to 6 seconds Resistance with no boon duration

    I hate to say it but while i think it does deserves buffs not as heavy of a buff as you are calling out sorry no.
    ITs not a grand master trait and the level of power you want to give it is 100% on part with the power of a grandmaster sustain trait.
    IF the trait was a grandmaster i could agree with you maybe but as it sits right now i still say, yes buff it, your idea/ level of buff , no thats too strong for its slot.

    Whats the matter? You pick it anyway. Doesnt matter if it is in on the left or the right side of the traitline? Like really? Thats nonsence. Move it to the grandmaster then, if it makes you feel better.
    No offence but this is stupid to me. Every warrior adapt trait are stronger then our grandmasters.

    Edit:nondmging conditions ticks only once...so problem solved

    Jokaurene

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Losing the ability to have up to 6 seconds Resistance with no boon duration

    I hate to say it but while i think it does deserves buffs not as heavy of a buff as you are calling out sorry no.
    ITs not a grand master trait and the level of power you want to give it is 100% on part with the power of a grandmaster sustain trait.
    IF the trait was a grandmaster i could agree with you maybe but as it sits right now i still say, yes buff it, your idea/ level of buff , no thats too strong for its slot.

    Whats the matter? You pick it anyway. Doesnt matter if it is in on the left or the right side of the traitline? Like really? Thats nonsence. Move it to the grandmaster then, if it makes you feel better.

    Actually it does matter because it matters what else it can and cannot stack / combo with.
    Also going from left to right the strength and effectiveness of a trait increases in almost all cases regardless in terms of if its

    • stats provided
    • boons given
    • damage reduced
    • healing gained
    • mechanic strength and synergy

    It actually does matter that you dont take a grand master trait and pop it in a adept slot... thats how something becomes op. Its not just about the trait itself its about what else it can / cannot combo with within that line and other lines.

    No offence but this is stupid to me. Every warrior adapt trait are stronger then our grandmasters.

    Hmm i dont agree warriors do actually have quite a few crappy adepts too that are almost never picked for the exact reason.

    The fact that warriors are also not by default magical themed classes that generally do not blink, teleport, stealth, etc also requires them to have a slightly different take on traits much like engineer traits are very odd as well.
    If you dont think its true ill give you two examples from strength line which is one of warriors strongest trait lines.

    Brave Stride
    has 1 effect that only triggers on your first out going strike on entering combat and has 0 effect for the rest of combat duration regardless of how long that combat situation might last. If combat last 20 seconds or 2 minutes it will never trigger again effectively they lose a whole trait after this triggers for the rest of that combat situation. People RARELY and i mean RARELY ever run this. You can tell if a warrior is running it because they have an icon for it on their bar letting them know it will trigger.

    Restorative Strength
    Grants you 5 might for 6s only after using a healing skill and thats it. If your healing skill is something like healing signet you cant or will rarely even activate this trait. The might gain is 5 stacks which is not bad but its only 6 seconds. not exactly anything crazy

    Simply put they are not that strong and all of them are adepts that are not anything near the level of grandmasters and this is looking at one of their strongest lines other lines have even lesser traits which are also not used and not matched in terms of equal power or effectiveness with the "most common" choices you see warriors use.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You're still missing the point, the traits are not equal with your reasoning, you don't take everything into account either. They are meant to compete with each other because they ARE the given choices.

    You're better taking Demonic Defiance EVEN if you buffed Replenishing Despair the way you wish it to be because if you wanted to be more resilient to power the benefits would still be greater than Replenishing Despair because it's garbage in every forms that you ask it to be. Resistance would alone make you lose less health that extra vulnerability would do to you from Power with Replenishing Despair and this trait wouldn't be to benefit as greatly with Demonic Resistance. Le BIG sigh.

    Given Might Makes Right is the complete opposite of Replenishing Despair doesn't mean it makes it unfair to be Adept, it doesn't matter because the trait is useless in any scenario AND comparably Demonic Defiance is always the superior choice because Resistance accomplishes more than the latter in every way, why is it so hard to understand? In how many different ways do I have to put it?

    Making Replenishing Despair the way I WISH IT to be would be more of having a PASSIVE amount "defense" to condition spam without making me immune to it which encourages a different play style than just condi bomb people with their own conditions all the time with Demonic Defiance or always pick Venom Enchancement if I wanted to be an hybrid, because Replenishing Despair would be DOING something meaningful that is alike to Demonic Defiance in a different matter that isn't Demonic Defiance nor the ability to be a walking Pestilence of Conditions because I don't have actual reliable Resistance on demand to achieve it because that is only achievable using Mallyx anyway, unlike that hilarious build curators put on Metabattle called Condition Shiro, what a joke.

    And boy, Venom Enhancement doesn't make the Revenant any more glassy, clearly you haven't played any hybrids yourself to figure out how OP that trait is against anything that can't cleanse consistently, pretty much Sigil of Doom in a traitline.

    From all that I can take for this, you don't play Condition Revenant competitively in PvP at all to know how effective Demonic Defiance is and Replenishing Despair is horrible for anything if you buffed it hypothetically to the way you think would make it any better than Venom Enhancements as a choice or Demonic Defiance as Mallyx, for PvE nobody cares about those traits since everyone is a DPS Streetwalker. That goes for the same in WvW for Demonic Defiance as 200HP per 1 second for god knows how many terrible amounts of Conditions you would put on yourself with Pain Absorption, the healing is insignificant compared the Resistance on demand Empowering Misery or any Demon skills for that matter can grant you.