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Nerf condi thief


SeikeNz.3526

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:259 hits........... 78k damage.

That must have been a really long engagement, I bet the Thief felt useless for the first 5 minutes.

well if you do the math78400/259 = 303 per tickthey put on you 10 stacks per atkso it's 3k dmg of poison per second:o

hit the cleanse button then? or build for more cleanses?

is there any decent condi thief willing to fight me? maybe thats my issue, maybe I havent seen anyone decent at the build.

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Death recaps aren't a very a good way to prove this point as I'm fairly confident that your death recap counts damage recieved in the downstate as well as pre-downstate damage. Have you ever looked at your recap after mistforming as ele? What would display your point better is if you had a short clip to show your death and be open to counterplay critique.That being said, condi thief is overperforming if you ask me. It's an easy build with strong damage that rewards spammy gameplay. That's what they've relegated thief to in general. Choose your flavor of spam: SB 4, SP 3, PP3, S/S3 bug, RIF3, SD 3, DP3. Some of these are obviously more effective than others but I think the message stands.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:259 hits........... 78k damage.

That must have been a really long engagement, I bet the Thief felt useless for the first 5 minutes.

well if you do the math78400/259 = 303 per tickthey put on you 10 stacks per atkso it's 3k dmg of poison per second:o

hit the cleanse button then? or build for more cleanses?

is there any decent condi thief willing to fight me? maybe thats my issue, maybe I havent seen anyone decent at the build.

i was playing guardian do u want more cleanse than that lol

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The problem is how easily they stack poison and all the trash cover condis you can put in the length of 1 immob / steal / dodge.

Doing literally 3 actions in less than 1.25 seconds lands on an enemy: weakness, poison, bleeding, torment, cripple, confusion and vuln if you trait for it.

With old sigils you could also add chill to that lmao.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:259 hits........... 78k damage.

That must have been a really long engagement, I bet the Thief felt useless for the first 5 minutes.

well if you do the math78400/259 = 303 per tickthey put on you 10 stacks per atkso it's 3k dmg of poison per second:o

hit the cleanse button then? or build for more cleanses?

is there any decent condi thief willing to fight me? maybe thats my issue, maybe I havent seen anyone decent at the build.

i was playing guardian do u want more cleanse than that lol

DH and Core should have been able to kill the Thief and the FB has got cleanses but no pressure..

Which perspective are you? The FB that would have died eventually or the DH/Core who couldn't kill a Thief?

either way... Im not sure what the issue is but I may not have faced a decent player on this build yet.

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I am just wondering that anet decided to nerf several auto proc abilities on classes, like reaper CoD or SS because anet pretended to want a more active playstyle, while whole condi thief thing seems to work only with autoprocs from several traits and skills.

in general i would say, if you could evade or counter those procs it would be fine, for example, venom skill charges are also procing when enemies dodge, but dont hit then, so they are wasted/denied. maybe that could help.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:259 hits........... 78k damage.

That must have been a really long engagement, I bet the Thief felt useless for the first 5 minutes.

well if you do the math78400/259 = 303 per tickthey put on you 10 stacks per atkso it's 3k dmg of poison per second:o

3k poison vs 8k burns ticks a guard can do soooooooo OP, nerf burn guard ;) lol

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So it took the thief 4 minutes and 19 seconds to kill you? I think the only way to have a longer fight is a medkit-only fight between two engineers.

Seriously though, am I interpreting this correctly? Does a tick from the full stack count as one hit or is each tick of each application of poison counted separately? If the former, then 4 minutes and 19 seconds is more than enough time to kill the thief. I cannot see a game where a 4 minute 1v1 does not turn into a gankfest for someone.

Even still, the thief had to do over 78k damage to kill you. That screams inefficiency. Less damage resulting in a death is more impressive. Dealing no damage and getting a kill would be the most impressive. Getting a kill with nothing equipped and a completely empty skill bar, by only using sheer force of will staring through the monitor and into the very eyes of your opponent would be beyond impressive, or a cheap sci-fi channel movie. I go back and forth.

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@Rogue.8235 said:So it took the thief 4 minutes and 19 seconds to kill you? I think the only way to have a longer fight is a medkit-only fight between two engineers.

Seriously though, am I interpreting this correctly? Does a tick from the full stack count as one hit or is each tick of each application of poison counted separately? If the former, then 4 minutes and 19 seconds is more than enough time to kill the thief. I cannot see a game where a 4 minute 1v1 does not turn into a gankfest for someone.

Even still, the thief had to do over 78k damage to kill you. That screams inefficiency. Less damage resulting in a death is more impressive. Dealing no damage and getting a kill would be the most impressive. Getting a kill with nothing equipped and a completely empty skill bar, by only using sheer force of will staring through the monitor and into the very eyes of your opponent would be beyond impressive, or a cheap sci-fi channel movie. I go back and forth.

4 min? 3k per sec a guardian has 11k base life, it would take 4 sec

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Rogue.8235 said:So it took the thief 4 minutes and 19 seconds to kill you? I think the only way to have a longer fight is a medkit-only fight between two engineers.

Seriously though, am I interpreting this correctly? Does a tick from the full stack count as one hit or is each tick of each application of poison counted separately? If the former, then 4 minutes and 19 seconds is more than enough time to kill the thief. I cannot see a game where a 4 minute 1v1 does not turn into a gankfest for someone.

Even still, the thief had to do over 78k damage to kill you. That screams inefficiency. Less damage resulting in a death is more impressive. Dealing no damage and getting a kill would be the most impressive. Getting a kill with nothing equipped and a completely empty skill bar, by only using sheer force of will staring through the monitor and into the very eyes of your opponent would be beyond impressive, or a cheap sci-fi channel movie. I go back and forth.

4 min? 3k per sec a guardian has 11k base life, it would take 4 sec

thanks for clearing that up. Definitely makes more sense, not sure what I was thinking.

Still though, it took 78k damage to get a kill. That's extremely inefficient. It doesn't matter how much damage you do if it doesn't result in a kill. Basically, the thief had to kill the OP 5-7 times over before it even meant anything. That's pretty bad. You should get kills with the least amount of resources and damage possible. The more you have to use to get a kill, the less efficient it is. Blowing every cooldown on one person means you have nothing left for the next opponent standing right next to that person. It's like dodging randomly, it's inefficient than to maximize the amount of damage avoided per dodge.

if a guardian only has 11k health, it should only take 11k - 13k damage to kill the guardian. 78k shows that the thief really struggled to kill the OP.

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@Rogue.8235 said:

@Rogue.8235 said:So it took the thief 4 minutes and 19 seconds to kill you? I think the only way to have a longer fight is a medkit-only fight between two engineers.

Seriously though, am I interpreting this correctly? Does a tick from the full stack count as one hit or is each tick of each application of poison counted separately? If the former, then 4 minutes and 19 seconds is more than enough time to kill the thief. I cannot see a game where a 4 minute 1v1 does not turn into a gankfest for someone.

Even still, the thief had to do over 78k damage to kill you. That screams inefficiency. Less damage resulting in a death is more impressive. Dealing no damage and getting a kill would be the most impressive. Getting a kill with nothing equipped and a completely empty skill bar, by only using sheer force of will staring through the monitor and into the very eyes of your opponent would be beyond impressive, or a cheap sci-fi channel movie. I go back and forth.

4 min? 3k per sec a guardian has 11k base life, it would take 4 sec

thanks for clearing that up. Definitely makes more sense, not sure what I was thinking.

Still though, it took 78k damage to get a kill. That's extremely inefficient. It doesn't matter how much damage you do if it doesn't result in a kill. Basically, the thief had to kill the OP 5-7 times over before it even meant anything. That's pretty bad. You should get kills with the least amount of resources and damage possible. The more you have to use to get a kill, the less efficient it is. Blowing every cooldown on one person means you have nothing left for the next opponent standing right next to that person. It's like dodging randomly, it's inefficient than to maximize the amount of damage avoided per dodge.

if a guardian only has 11k health, it should only take 11k - 13k damage to kill the guardian. 78k shows that the thief really struggled to kill the OP.

lol what? so the first shout is : "BRING CLEANSE", then you bring it and they shout: "LOL YOU ARE BAD AND THIEF IS EXTREMELY INEFICIENTY"any other class with less cleanses would die in 4 seconds to a condi thief

also wth you talking about thief cooldowns?

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Rogue.8235 said:So it took the thief 4 minutes and 19 seconds to kill you? I think the only way to have a longer fight is a medkit-only fight between two engineers.

Seriously though, am I interpreting this correctly? Does a tick from the full stack count as one hit or is each tick of each application of poison counted separately? If the former, then 4 minutes and 19 seconds is more than enough time to kill the thief. I cannot see a game where a 4 minute 1v1 does not turn into a gankfest for someone.

Even still, the thief had to do over 78k damage to kill you. That screams inefficiency. Less damage resulting in a death is more impressive. Dealing no damage and getting a kill would be the most impressive. Getting a kill with nothing equipped and a completely empty skill bar, by only using sheer force of will staring through the monitor and into the very eyes of your opponent would be beyond impressive, or a cheap sci-fi channel movie. I go back and forth.

4 min? 3k per sec a guardian has 11k base life, it would take 4 sec

thanks for clearing that up. Definitely makes more sense, not sure what I was thinking.

Still though, it took 78k damage to get a kill. That's extremely inefficient. It doesn't matter how much damage you do if it doesn't result in a kill. Basically, the thief had to kill the OP 5-7 times over before it even meant anything. That's pretty bad. You should get kills with the least amount of resources and damage possible. The more you have to use to get a kill, the less efficient it is. Blowing every cooldown on one person means you have nothing left for the next opponent standing right next to that person. It's like dodging randomly, it's inefficient than to maximize the amount of damage avoided per dodge.

if a guardian only has 11k health, it should only take 11k - 13k damage to kill the guardian. 78k shows that the thief really struggled to kill the OP.

lol what? so the first shout is : "BRING CLEANSE", then you bring it and they shout: "LOL YOU ARE BAD AND THIEF IS EXTREMELY INEFICIENTY"any other class with less cleanses would die in 4 seconds to a condi thief

also wth you talking about thief cooldowns?

I'm speaking generally. And Thieves blowing all dodges and utility cooldowns should be dead. But yes, ridiculous amounts of damage before a kill shows that it that much effort and resources to get the kill. Resources not immediately available for the next fight. Players should strive to get kills with the least amount of damage possible, maximizing the effect of every press of every key. That's what I'm speaking of in general.

As for this case, you brought cleanse. Now you have the sustain to kill the thief. I don't struggle versus most thieves because I know when the end of their evade frames are. There is an aftercast at the end of evade frames in which an action cannot be immediately taken. If a blind player can hit a thief by sound alone, surely you can with sound and visuals. Okay, maybe not visuals so much if it's a team fight.

I play every class except revenant, because I'm still trying to get used to that playstyle. I play multiple builds (non-meta as I play builds I know intuitively and have completely memorized since I can't see my skill bar or any of the HUD elements).

You survived 75k damage. You had room to operate to kill the thief. If the thief killed you with much less damage that meant you had little to no toime to react. By posting thiese numbers, you're showing you had time and resources.

I don't mean to be offensive in any way. These are just my thoughts and experience on the matter. I played condi thief before the rework of traits before HoT was ever mentioned, back when venoms were truly horrendous in terms of unviability. I was still successful because people had no clue on how to fight it. Once you understand a build, understand the common gameplay patterns most players initiate, it's predictable and defeatable. How easy that is depends on your own build and the tools you have. Most thieves I played against didge as part of a damage rotation, which is how I kill them. The after cast is long

Side note, why do thieves have the loudest dodge in the game. You can hear that thing from anywhere.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:259 hits........... 78k damage.

That must have been a really long engagement, I bet the Thief felt useless for the first 5 minutes.

well if you do the math78400/259 = 303 per tickthey put on you 10 stacks per atkso it's 3k dmg of poison per second:o

hit the cleanse button then? or build for more cleanses?

is there any decent condi thief willing to fight me? maybe thats my issue, maybe I havent seen anyone decent at the build.

i was playing guardian do u want more cleanse than that lol

DH and Core should have been able to kill the Thief and the FB has got cleanses but no pressure..

Which perspective are you? The FB that would have died eventually or the DH/Core who couldn't kill a Thief?

either way... Im not sure what the issue is but I may not have faced a decent player on this build yet.

i love statments like "this class should have killed that class" haven't you heard about player skills? the outcome of duels isn't always defined by class in use, but about playstyles, if that thief only hit and run all match, how would a dh or core killed him? remember thiefs just tp on your face dodge and go back, nothing else, they avoid damage while putting condis on you and they can spam this rotations 3 times every 10 seconds... plus they have tons of diesngage mechanics, such as dagger 5 for stealth, shortbow 5 for running away, shb 3 to keep chaining dodges

condi thief is busted right now, and it's not okay neither to say thiefs are fine just play something anti condi, because that's not balance at all, it's the oppsite

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Like people said the condi builds lack the big telegraphed attacks that say im gona kill you. Most of the damage comes from random next attack application auto, dagger trow or large aoes that pulses and even a graze ccs you with debilitating condition and at that moment you can cleanse and they can reapply at which point the only solution is to kill the condi speck which is probably hard cause they run a fully defense build that stacks condi damage from passive traits.The problem comes from how the conditions are applied and how many types can be applied, if only they worked like hard cc where one is exchanged for the other instead of being crippled, weakened, chilled slowed, tormented, poisoned, confused and end up crawling getting kicked in the kidneys trying to escape. People are annoyed cause one wrong step and the conditions start pilling on over and over, and you are fully on the defensive.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@lare.5129 said:about what nerf talking? lolwe should make thief more strongerI was try play whit condi thief, is so hard, and so fast die .. If someone think that thief is op - welcome- login as thief and play.

I did, the only time i die is becouse i got so lazy that i dont even pay attention whats going on.

Lmao yeah u were unkillable. Sure there chief and we all believe u.Someone give this guy a hero cookie :)

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