Buff DH traps — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions Guardian

Buff DH traps

Xervite.5493Xervite.5493 Member ✭✭✭

Traps need a tune up.
Looking at most builds only 2 traps (some do use more yes ik) are mostly used: Procession of blades (spining swords) and dragon maw.
In pvp only one trap is used by majority, test of faith because the utility/defensive traps are not worth taking over medi skills. But now lets look at traps one by and see what can be improved. (This is just my opinion)

  1. The heal trap: its perfect

  2. Procession of blades: ok damage in pve could use a tune up tbh. Why? Compare the damage to a somewhat similar skill Arc divider and you'll see what I mean. Sadly its useless in pvp and very rarely works. (And that's ok)

  3. Test of faith: the initial damage and movement damage is just fine, problem is in pvp it can easily be dodged out of or enemy can simply wait it out. Imagine triggering a trap and waiting inside to let it pass. Give it some sort of pulsing DoT inside the radius to punish the waiting tactic. Like 500 damage over the course of its duration. (Nothing big)

  4. Light's judgement: its just bad, rework it please. The reveal is not useful. As a trapper, player can simply throw down any trap and wait inside for a stealth enemy to walk in and alert the player.

  5. Fragments of faith: There are far better options in medi line, even shouts are better tbh. Give the trap retal or some condi cleanse along with some healing maybe?

  6. Dragon maw: more damage would be great in pve. Because other elites like prime light beam hit way harder and feel powerful too. I wouldn't mind a longer cooldown along with the dmg buff. In pvp its bad, takes literally 1 stability to move out of it, maw barrier should not act like cc and completely ignore stability/stunbreak.
    Lastly the trait for traps can better, the cd reduction is great but the slow duration is just bad. Change slow to cripple with better duration for DH damage synergy.

Thank you for reading this far. What do you guys think? Are the traps able to keep up with other professions and their changes?

Comments

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    As a PvP player I can say that traps are performing pretty well, there are always used 2 traps(+passive trap)

  • @Fueki.4753 said:
    The only change I'd like for them is to get triggered by world bosses.
    We are called dragon Hunters, yet dragons are something we can't hunt with our utilities.

    To true any stationary boss fights the traps are meaningless along with underwater, they did a great rework on Thief but Ranger and DH still sitting here with nothing.

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2019

    I would request something that fits to its name....

    Trapzzz.. kek.

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    If they buff traps people will complain that guardian is even more OP than it already is. Thenthey will nerf guardian in typical Anet fashion.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bassdeff.1895 said:
    If they buff traps people will complain that guardian is even more OP than it already is. Thenthey will nerf guardian in typical Anet fashion.

    Traps were a bad bet it’s a bad design.

    Traps they will win due powercreep + surprise, or they are useless since won’t powercreep.

    It’s initial design and balance was tonto carry with powercreep momentum.

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    The only thing inherently bad about them is that they cast at your feet. If they had a 400 range to them or something I would probably use it for something other than PvE.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020

    Traps need zero buffs in pvp but bosses should proc them.

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2020

    @Xervite.5493 said:
    Traps need a tune up.
    Looking at most builds only 2 traps (some do use more yes ik) are mostly used: Procession of blades (spining swords) and dragon maw.
    In pvp only one trap is used by majority, test of faith because the utility/defensive traps are not worth taking over medi skills. But now lets look at traps one by and see what can be improved. (This is just my opinion)

    1. The heal trap: its perfect

    2. Procession of blades: ok damage in pve could use a tune up tbh. Why? Compare the damage to a somewhat similar skill Arc divider and you'll see what I mean. Sadly its useless in pvp and very rarely works. (And that's ok)

    3. Test of faith: the initial damage and movement damage is just fine, problem is in pvp it can easily be dodged out of or enemy can simply wait it out. Imagine triggering a trap and waiting inside to let it pass. Give it some sort of pulsing DoT inside the radius to punish the waiting tactic. Like 500 damage over the course of its duration. (Nothing big)

    4. Light's judgement: its just bad, rework it please. The reveal is not useful. As a trapper, player can simply throw down any trap and wait inside for a stealth enemy to walk in and alert the player.

    5. Fragments of faith: There are far better options in medi line, even shouts are better tbh. Give the trap retal or some condi cleanse along with some healing maybe?

    6. Dragon maw: more damage would be great in pve. Because other elites like prime light beam hit way harder and feel powerful too. I wouldn't mind a longer cooldown along with the dmg buff. In pvp its bad, takes literally 1 stability to move out of it, maw barrier should not act like cc and completely ignore stability/stunbreak.
      Lastly the trait for traps can better, the cd reduction is great but the slow duration is just bad. Change slow to cripple with better duration for DH damage synergy.

    Thank you for reading this far. What do you guys think? Are the traps able to keep up with other professions and their changes?

    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes because you can tell where some is already when they get hit by a trap, you see it go off and you get the boon for it. IRL if you set off a trap you reveal yourself/location it makes sense.
    DH having anti-stealth traps would be great as it would help combat Mesmars and Thief's that heavily rely on shealth.

    I would like Light's judgement to be replaced with a new different version that blinds and Dazes/stuns foes also gives the Dragonhunter retaliation,
    Think of Light judgement as a bright glaring light trap, it means more sense, a sudden flash of bright light in your eyes is going to stun/daze anyone.
    The boon is more useful Dragonhunter itself doesn't have access retaliation boon yet relies on retaliation heavily for damage.
    Lastly the daze/stun would DH out a lot with CC.

    I agree, Dragon maw actually needs to be fix to TRAP foes.
    I think that rather swaping slow for cripple why not have both if traited. I would like retaliation added all traps boon if it is traited.

    I would like a way to set off my own traps for boss and stuff,
    We need a way of setting them because many bosses like winewrath in the auric basin meta can't trigger the traps.
    Give Guardian an F4 virtue, Torch of Willpower, that gives boons, blinds and reveals foes. but at the same time sets off any placed traps.
    what do think?

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    I feel that way too, it would be easy to be revealed, any slight tap would break reveal,
    in wvw stealth group attacking is a common strat for zergs, this would invaildate that completely as you constantly being hit but AoE's.
    But I just feel like that having it tied to traps would help dragonhunter have a niche in some way, putting down traps to stealthing.
    as it stands now DH isn't recommended for any mode, most people go base or FB.

    Also I feel that most people that have played wvw have had an encounter with a theif/mesmar that hides and continues stealthing in keep/tower.
    Sniff doesn't work on stealthed foes so having another way to counter this would be this would be nice.
    As traps would not only slow them down but reveal them.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2020

    Traps need to be buffed but, buffs are not tied to damage or boons only.

  • Traps seem to activate on solid (= yellow) objects now. Secret buffing?

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    For World Boss, traps could have a chained skill to trigger the trap ?

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Traps need a rework. They are rarely dangerous in wvw and their effects are not enough to compete with similar utility skills of other professions. Buffingİs not the solution in my opinion. They need better boons or effects

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Fort Aspenwood
    [ShW] Jekkies

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    Fort Aspenwood
    [ShW] Jekkies

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.
    Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.
    Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.
    Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.
    Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

    As for the Aegis part: It block one attack, one. That's far from permanent.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why?

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • The Traps are fine as is. The only one that I could see that could probably need adjusting is Dragon's Maw. As it currently doing zero damage is pretty silly.

    I get they don't want people bursting people down like crazy, but I would recommend restoring either part of it's damage, or at the minimum make it so it adds several stacks of vulnerability. the whole purpose of dragon's maw is to put you in a vulnerable state where you're bound to one location. stability flat out allows you to ignore that, so I feel either adding damage back to it or vulnerability would be reasonable.

  • Drennon.7190Drennon.7190 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    Stealth is fine, you just need to learn to play around it. This is coming from a guardian main.

  • I agree with the comment above. Stealth is fine for the most part. I've been wrecked by my fair share of thieves, but i've also wrecked my fair share of thieves.

    You just need to learn how to challenge their weaknesses. I recommend playing as a thief to get a better understanding of how to fight against them. Its what I did to learn
    You can't just mash your way to victory, its all about timing

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.
    Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.
    Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.
    Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.
    Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

    As for the Aegis part: It block one attack, one. That's far from permanent.

    I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why?

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

    Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

    Fort Aspenwood
    [ShW] Jekkies

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.
    Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.
    Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.
    Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.
    Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

    As for the Aegis part: It block one attack, one. That's far from permanent.

    I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why?

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

    Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

    It's a single block, if you are having issues with that, it might be a L2P issue. Fact is it's because guard has a low base HP and spiking one from stealth without it is easy, there really is very little reason to complain about this, guard sustain is block based, it's why guard has one of the lowest base HP in the game and thats for a heavy class.

    However, go ahead, remove it. At the same time we can remove the ability to attack from stealth, because why should you get a free burst off? "Thats not skillful".

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.
    Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.
    Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.
    Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.
    Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

    As for the Aegis part: It block one attack, one. That's far from permanent.

    I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why?

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

    Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

    Its 1 block every 40 seconds, Its nothing now a days, Thieves, Rangers and Mirages can normally burst them down quite quickly due to the low HP pool.
    at launch you had aegis builds but due to the expansions, patches the nerf to aegis, it is pointless now.
    Most classes now have a form of Unblockable which go through aegis and don't trigger any of guardian's traits.
    There are many more things that hit multiple times basically blocking only the first hit.
    Once that aegis is gone there is no much in the way.

    "Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks"
    Because theives would just be over powered without any way to counter them properly. Why roam on any other class when you can be a perma shealthed thief getting the drop on people that have no way block or defend against it. WvW would be littered with thieves more so than it is now. being shealthed attacked every 5 mins because no-one has a decent way to defend against it. Being able to 1-shot people isn't healthy for a competitive mode, because people will just use the cheese builds that instantly kill people because they have little to no counter play. Would you rather have this protection on Warriors or Ranger both of which have higher HPs pools and Invuns through traits and signets/stance. Also rangers can reveal you giving themselves a boost to their attack with their 1500 range bows. Spellbreaker also having reveals too.

    Guardian's sustain is mostly block based with the nerf to many block related things over the years, I don't feel it like it should have low tier HP pool anymore.
    To Be honest I think guardian should have mid tier HP, but due to how support heavy is Firebrand, if you pick that elite, it bumps your HP back to low tier.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2020

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    There is no class that relies on Stealth as a defensive tool.
    Stealth is used to cowardly run away in PvP, which is not an defensive action.
    Thieves have enough evasive tools to form their active defense, Mesmers have enough tools and their clones to annoy opponents and divert their attacks.
    Scrapper is tanky enough not to need any more defences.
    Adjusting something to make it proper instead of unfair and over-performing doesn't require compensations.

    As for the Aegis part: It block one attack, one. That's far from permanent.

    I didn't say class, did I? What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth? Or just...oriented around stealth. Your suggestion would require a rework to Shadow Arts at the very least - what do you propose is buffed/changed in Shadow Arts in order to compensate for your suggestion?

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why?

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @crazyhusky.2985 said:
    Personally I feel ALL traps should reveal foes

    Personally, I think ANY damage received by stealthed characters should reveal enemies.
    It should baked into the Stealth mechanic, not into traps being a counter to that mechanic.

    More than that, how is it that I get into a fight with a thief, engi, mes, ranger etc etc and know and count down their stealth timer in my head of when they are going to attack and dodge a backstab with "miss" popping up, or pop a block only to see rapid fire hitting me "block, block, block" but they don't get revealed? Why are they not punished for this? Being able to counter an attack you cant even see coming and the stealth user is rewarded with getting to try again? Why?

    For something to change in the direction you are inferring means the removal of Guardian's passive aegis.

    Why should Aegis be removed when need to rework stealth?
    When the player activates a skill, stealth is gone.
    When the player receives damage from any source, stealth is gone.
    I don't see how Aegis would be affected by these two changes.

    Stealth in its current anti-pvp state is the ultimate coward runaway tool that's overpowered and the access is too abundant.
    It's in dire need of a rework, but Arenanet apparently doesn't care.

    My reply was to to how stealth attacks would interact with blocks. Why should Guardian get a passive permanent protection from all stealth attacks if Tink's idea was taken? They shouldn't.

    But sure, lets entertain your reply: What buffs do you propose to compensate traitlines whose defenses are reliant on stealth?

    So, you want that changed because it means you can't start a fight from stealth, it means you have to actually hit someone and be revealed before doing a burst, this is something high burst builds have always complained about. It is also not permanent, it is tied to F3's CD and is only applied every 40 seconds if F3 isn't on CD.

    Why should Guardian's receive special treatment regarding this then? The fact that it is only applied every 40s has no bearing considering it is permanent until removed. It's not a skillful block or counter that you are actively using.

    It's a single block, if you are having issues with that, it might be a L2P issue. Fact is it's because guard has a low base HP and spiking one from stealth without it is easy, there really is very little reason to complain about this, guard sustain is block based, it's why guard has one of the lowest base HP in the game and thats for a heavy class.

    However, go ahead, remove it. At the same time we can remove the ability to attack from stealth, because why should you get a free burst off? "Thats not skillful".

    If you are having issues with reacting to burst attacks from stealth that have been in the game since beta, it might be a L2P issue. Guard has the same hp pool as Thieves and Eles, yet they do not have a passive permanent-until-removed aegis or anything similar. However, go ahead and remove the ability to attack from stealth. That or revealing upon activation would be fine, at least it wouldn't hinder my personal success.

    Fort Aspenwood
    [ShW] Jekkies

  • Are you saying guardians have utility skills that aren't meditations? Blasphemy

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    can the elite at least dismount a player?