The unnecessary complications of in-combat swapping..

Would the removal of in-combat swapping make such a dramatic difference to the enjoyment of Gw2's combat system? I think so.. I believe that it would only bring more enjoyment and less complications for players.. Why do i need to deal with insane rotations because of the added swap functions? The simplistic yet functional design of Gw2's simple 10 key hotbar was a welcome sight when I first heard of the games design. I didn't realize the added complication of in-combat swapping would cause me and MANY others to not enjoy playing Elementalist or any other class that requires you to have a million key rotation so your character can do the optimal amount of damage its capable of. For me, playing a role isn't about how many keys you can memorize or how fast your fingers can fly over a KB, its more about being able to SEE whats happening on screen and reacting to it. This is after all an "action" MMORPG whether we want to toss that label around or not. Yes it supposedly separates the "elitists" from regular folks who play for fun, but isn't Gw2 supposed to be the antithesis of grief? And please don't get me wrong, I am not a player that has issues with rotations, Im a player that can admit that it gets unnecessarily over complicated at times to the point that people I have invited to the game just flat out don't want to play or have left because of it. I want to see my friends play harder content and be GOOD at it not because the game is "dumbed" down, but because they can actually play their characters at their full potential without having to develop carpal tunnel syndrome. And no, the solution isn't "play a less demanding class" all classes should be accessible and everyone should be able to do well at it.. even to implement an option to somewhat automate certain functions wouldn't steal from the games success.. we are after all on the same team, barring PVP of course.

Are you aware elementalist is often considered the most complicated profession in GW2, for exactly that reason?

Have you tried playing the others and see how they compare? Most professions only have 2 sets of weapon skills to swap between instead of the elementalists 4, and are simpler overall. I believe Warrior is generally considered the simplest in terms of number of buttons you need to push (helped by the fact that their profession mechanic is just 1 button instead of the 4-5 others get).

I have leveled all classes to 80 and geared them all up to perform in Raids and/or fractals.. I am very much aware.. but nothing you said address the issue of figuring a way so that everyone can play to their full potentials

In effect don't we already have what you are requesting? As an Ele you can choose not to swap attunements, as an Engi you can choose not to run kits, for any other class you can choose to not setup two sets of weapons. No if anything I would prefer a third swap for everyone else and would like to see Ele and Engi get an additional one. To me removing the swap would diminish gameplay not enhance it. Part of the gameplay I didn't like about GW1 was the limited amount of skills you had access to in combat. Part of the draw to GW2 was the weapon-swap and the access to different abilities during combat. So for me, no prefer increase over decrease in options.

Yes but that option of not swapping exists if you want to under perform. You make a valid point of Gw1 not having enough options, but some others may think it was just the right amount of options.. why not implement an option that caters to all crowds? Many games have done it and Gw2 should be able to do it with a bit of development.. A system that allows the option of more or less player skill involvement.. or even a Macro system where you can setup your own set of skills to use in succession at the push of a button. Some of my friends are geniuses when it comes to calculating the best or most optimal skill usage, but find it difficult to do because they aren't as dexterous as others.

@Court.7180 said:the issue of figuring a way so that everyone can play to their full potentialsThen why have weapon and utility skills at all? The only way to get close to everyone playing to their full potential is reducing combat to one key, and even then I'm sure there are people around that could be complaining that having to move or position yourself keeps them from playing to their full potential.

There are classes with simple mechanics that work well with few keypresses, and there are classes with complex mechanics and involved synergies between their skills. If the one you play is too complicated for your taste, you are free to switch to another class, especially if you have all of them ready anyway. Other people however do enjoy classes that have a higher skill ceiling. Nerfing every class to have easy/low-interaction playstyles for maximum output just serves to turn off those players that prefer the more involved playstyle.

Just play minecraft, no weapon swapping just movement and auto attacks.

I personally disagree. While I totally see where you're coming from, and don't fault the logic behind a streamlined system that allows people to all perform equally without needing 10X the key presses, I enjoy in-combat swapping. Having multiple weapon sets or elements that change my abilities in combat is something other games I play don't have. Other MMOs have the larger total skill pool for each class, but GW2 has weapon swapping to allow on the fly adjustments to your play style, be it swapping to a ranged weapon to pick off something that won't let you stay close, or swapping to something with heavy CC to lock someone down, the in-combat swapping adds a level of fun that I personally otherwise find absent completely from the game due to its extremely small pool of available skills.I'm sure there is a solution to what you propose that would appease everyone, but I'm unable to see it with my complete lack of expertise in this area so I'd personally rather not see it change to avoid the risk of a more streamlined system removing the enjoyment I do get from combat in GW2.

I mean, at this rate, why have combat at all? Let's just watch a cutscene, and be instantly rewarded, right? Less challenge, more ease?

I will never understand that mentality.

Well i tried.. everyone who isn't a twitch gamer will just have to play mine craft as someone suggested.. way to look out for the less mechanically inclined.

There are a great many builds out there that are literally optimally played with a single key press in many content modes. I can think of a dual pistol 3 spam deadeye, and dual axe berzerker off the top of my head that are literally optimal content performers with next to no active interaction with the keyboard. Less mechanically dexterous players do have meta build options that don't require dexterity.Reducing the skill ceiling for the vast majority to cater to a minority isn't the answer. There are available answers for that minority to allow them to perform on par without compromise.

@Court.7180 said:why not implement an option that caters to all crowds?This is an impossibility.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Court.7180" said:why not implement an option that caters to all crowds?This is an impossibility.

Seconded. It's a fact of life that you can't please everyone--to try would be to destroy yourself in the process. Can you try to make as many people happy as possible? Sure. But there is no "everyone" in these situations.

I'm not a twitch gamer. I'm 54 years old, very right handed, never managed to make a console controller work for me so I don't play console games, I use my mouse to move and steer and strafe and one left hand finger to tap one hotkey at a time. Oh, I can get fancy and do a two-key combo for non-twitch things like setting a target or summoning a mount. I fail at timed jumping puzzles on a regular basis.

And I don't find swapping out for a total of 10 skills at all hard. Nor do I really work on a "rotation" other than having a pretty good sequence for Reaper and an awareness of when -not- to burn up my cc and stun break skills. Granted I do gravitate to the slow reflexes professions like reaper and am not terribly adept at Elementalist, but I'm fine with not being the best player or reaching my "full potential." I like the dynamic sense of combat this game affords.

If you don't want to have two sets of skills to remember, I'm pretty sure you can equip the exact same type of weapon in each slot. Maybe try that? Just with different stats depending one which effect you want?

Because it gives options for more creative and engaging combat.

Hey look! An enemy that's such a pain to engage in melee! Good thing I can weapon swap to ranged weapon while i'm in combat.

Uh oh! This monster I'm fighting reflects my arrows! Better weapon swap to my greatsword and engage it in melee!

Oh boy! This veteran Awakened is sudenly reflecting my ranged attacks when I got it to 50% HP left. Good thing I have melee weapons on my weapon swap, could still kill it!

@borgs.6103 said:Because it gives options for more creative and engaging combat.

Hey look! An enemy that's such a pain to engage in melee! Good thing I can weapon swap to ranged weapon while i'm in combat.

Uh oh! This monster I'm fighting reflects my arrows! Better weapon swap to my greatsword and engage it in melee!

Oh boy! This veteran Awakened is sudenly reflecting my ranged attacks when I got it to 50% HP left. Good thing I have melee weapons on my weapon swap, could still kill it!

I hate playing Ele in open world PVE for those reasons.

another is the POF and later Champions punish eles who use swords if they have the phaseshift ability, and then they get punished again if they use ranged weapons if they have the Weak point(attack from up close) ability.

I would utterly get rid of all but one attunment to have a weapon swap :/

Its interesting how so many of you are pro options, yet none of you are in support of the option of macros or helping mechanically challenged players to play better by allowing a different (or option) in key mechanics. And to say there are a few if not only 1 class where you can spam one button and still play optimally only proves my point.. Everyone should be able to play ALL classes optimally.. and it is possible to please all if not the majority, that's what good coders, options and beta tests are for.

I agree with you op, my thoughts....There has been skill bloat overtime for some classes, I personally would like to see the removal of the number of "buttons to press" not just in a rotation but also the total number of skills (F1, F2, etc.).For me when playing I like to be in the top 1-3 dps so that means I watch my keyboard more than the screen... so those times the game feels more a tab target than action game.Will it happen, probably not.

@"Court.7180" said:Its interesting how so many of you are pro options, yet none of you are in support of the option of macros or helping mechanically challenged players to play better by allowing a different (or option) in key mechanics. And to say there are a few if not only 1 class where you can spam one button and still play optimally only proves my point.. Everyone should be able to play ALL classes optimally.. and it is possible to please all if not the majority, that's what good coders, options and beta tests are for.

Your heart's in the right place (I think), but what you're asking for simply isn't realistic--especially for a MMORPG meant to grant a sense of reward and accomplishment for overcoming adversity / challenging situations (generally speaking). I'm sorry, but I'm not all for "casualizing" any and all types of games. I like the challenge, as does "the majority" as you put it.

You're talking about making classes more easily accessible for casual playstyles, so that they can then "play optimally" in the harder content. That's literally polar opposites. You can't make hard content "easier" because then...it's not hard content? And you can't make easy / casual content harder because...then it's not easy / casual content.

You're asking to mix oil and water, and that's just not how it works.

But as an option you don't have to play with casual settings.. it just makes it more accessible for others.. im not saying lets hardcode the game to EZ mode.. im just saying i want some of the friends I've made in here that are scared to death of raiding because of the complexity/difficulty of the bar being so high that unless you push a million keys your going to hinder more than benefit the group.. no one really wants to be carried.

@hanabal lecter.2495 said:Just play minecraft, no weapon swapping just movement and auto attacks.

or wait for the balance team to screw up again :pI think there was a time where playing staff DD the best DPS was just standing there autoattacking

@Dante.1763 said:and then they get punished again if they use ranged weapons if they have the Weak point(attack from up close) ability.

It only requires you to get close to the target, it doesn't care how much range your weapon has. Additionally bounties are very badly planned out anyway.

@borgs.6103 said:Because it gives options for more creative and engaging combat.

Hey look! An enemy that's such a pain to engage in melee! Good thing I can weapon swap to ranged weapon while i'm in combat.

Uh oh! This monster I'm fighting reflects my arrows! Better weapon swap to my greatsword and engage it in melee!

Oh boy! This veteran Awakened is sudenly reflecting my ranged attacks when I got it to 50% HP left. Good thing I have melee weapons on my weapon swap, could still kill it!

Reflect is its own can of worms ... for example do you consider main hand sword and mace to be ranged or melee weapons on revenant?

Just get together with your friends and play your way, don't worry about weapon-swapping all the time if you don't want.

Have you tried working out your own rotations without weapon swapping and seeing just how much damage you lose compared to when you do? That would be interesting to know. Power creep in the game has been such that I'm sure you all could complete the vast majority of content. You're not going to inflict the 'maximum dps' for any class without weapon swapping. But do you need to? No. Those that can burn through raid bosses at least twice as fast as many of the boss mechanics allow highlight that we don't have to elicit the best damage numbers/etc - not anywhere near it - to complete the content. Don't think for a second that you need to have perfect rotations or 'the best' damage or you're unable to enjoy harder raid/fractal content in the game, because it's just not the case.

All play how you want and see how far you get, you might surprise yourself.

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@hanabal lecter.2495 said:Just play minecraft, no weapon swapping just movement and auto attacks.

@Dante.1763 said:and then they get punished again if they use ranged weapons if they have the Weak point(attack from up close) ability.

If very well aware of that, its still punishing players of ranged characters. And its not just bounties, the champs in Dragonfall also use those mechanics. I wouldnt have an issue( i would but it would be less) if it didnt negate -all- damage from the zones excluded.

@Court.7180 said:But as an option you don't have to play with casual settings.. it just makes it more accessible for others.. im not saying lets hardcode the game to EZ mode.. im just saying i want some of the friends I've made in here that are scared to death of raiding because of the complexity/difficulty of the bar being so high that unless you push a million keys your going to hinder more than benefit the group.. no one really wants to be carried.

It’s not going to happen because then everyone who earned their clears by mastering their playstyles will have their achievement undermined by having it handed to others on an easier platter, simply because “they’re too scared to try”. I would join them, because it would!

Your solution isn’t in altering game systems. Just find (or start) a raiding static that isn’t focused on perfection. That’s what I’d call a “Hardcore static”. Just find yourself one that’s more chill and wants to focus more on just having fun (which is one I’d prefer anyway. Hardcore statics just make the game feel like a job. I already work, I don’t want a second job)

@Court.7180 said:Its interesting how so many of you are pro options, yet none of you are in support of the option of macros or helping mechanically challenged players to play better by allowing a different (or option) in key mechanics. And to say there are a few if not only 1 class where you can spam one button and still play optimally only proves my point.. Everyone should be able to play ALL classes optimally.. and it is possible to please all if not the majority, that's what good coders, options and beta tests are for.

Your original post was about removing weapon swaps. If your above point was more in allowing macros that's a different topic. Today that's a no-no from ANet. If we were allowed macros not sure how I would feel since you would now be turning around skill into who could design the most efficient macros. That would just move the disadvantage from one group to another. Now I think you are coming at this from a PvE view and I am looking from a PvP/WvW view which is also where macros are a no-no for that exact reason. Its easy to get a X damage hit if you hit all your skills just so. Have been in other MMOs that allowed them and in a PvP environment they can be quite bad to have.

Since you used mechanically challenged vs physically challenged, are you looking at people that just spam abilities or was this word choice something else?