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Are Rangers really "Naturalists"?

In the profession select screen, they describe Rangers as "Naturalists". I looked up the meaning of this word and it states:

"In philosophy, naturalism is the "idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world.""

"Naturalism (from Latin natura 'birth, nature, quality') is "the idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world"."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism_(philosophy)

So this is saying that Naturalists believe that everything comes from a natural/physical way. But I've always felt that the Ranger blended natural and spiritual together. They use spirit skills and they combine themselves with their pet's spirits and such.

So is "Naturalist" just to refer to Rangers specializing in nature or is it to really say that they strictly believe everything has to come from the natural world and spirits and supernatural things don't exist?

Comments

  • MikeG.6389MikeG.6389 Member ✭✭✭

    So this is saying that Naturalists believe that everything comes from a natural/physical way.

    See, you already made the mistake of explaining the word's definition through the filter of what you - us - mean by natural and naturalism. To us, natural can be simultaneous with physical. In Tyria, however, where magic is real, gods are literal beings and afterlife is an actual place, one could argue that the word should incorporate all those things, as well.

    So, if we accept that, a ranger's summon spirits are very much part of the natural order in Tyria. At least, that's how I interpret it.

  • @MikeG.6389 said:

    So this is saying that Naturalists believe that everything comes from a natural/physical way.

    See, you already made the mistake of explaining the word's definition through the filter of what you - us - mean by natural and naturalism. To us, natural can be simultaneous with physical. In Tyria, however, where magic is real, gods are literal beings and afterlife is an actual place, one could argue that the word should incorporate all those things, as well.

    So, if we accept that, a ranger's summon spirits are very much part of the natural order in Tyria. At least, that's how I interpret it.

    Oo good point! I like this explanation. But why would they use naturalist which is to differentiate from supernatural? What would be considered supernatural in Tyria then?

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2019

    @SerenNovah.2510 said:

    @MikeG.6389 said:

    So this is saying that Naturalists believe that everything comes from a natural/physical way.

    See, you already made the mistake of explaining the word's definition through the filter of what you - us - mean by natural and naturalism. To us, natural can be simultaneous with physical. In Tyria, however, where magic is real, gods are literal beings and afterlife is an actual place, one could argue that the word should incorporate all those things, as well.

    So, if we accept that, a ranger's summon spirits are very much part of the natural order in Tyria. At least, that's how I interpret it.

    Oo good point! I like this explanation. But why would they use naturalist which is to differentiate from supernatural? What would be considered supernatural in Tyria then?

    it's probably so that common conceptions see spirits, magic, etc. as supernatural while rangers see them more as part of nature's bigger picture. it's a matter of perspective

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  • or you know, they done goofed.

  • MikeG.6389MikeG.6389 Member ✭✭✭

    @SerenNovah.2510 said:
    Oo good point! I like this explanation. But why would they use naturalist which is to differentiate from supernatural? What would be considered supernatural in Tyria then?

    I'll say that the word 'Naturalist' on the profession select screen might only mean 'Close to nature'. I don't think the word appears anywhere else, either.
    On that note, I don't think I encountered the word 'supernatural' in the game, either. But at the very least we can say that the concept doesn't seem to be prevalent in the mind of a Tyrian, if it even exists, at all.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SerenNovah.2510 said:
    In the profession select screen, they describe Rangers as "Naturalists". I looked up the meaning of this word and it states:

    "In philosophy, naturalism is the "idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world.""

    "Naturalism (from Latin natura 'birth, nature, quality') is "the idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world"."

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism_(philosophy)

    So this is saying that Naturalists believe that everything comes from a natural/physical way. But I've always felt that the Ranger blended natural and spiritual together. They use spirit skills and they combine themselves with their pet's spirits and such.

    So is "Naturalist" just to refer to Rangers specializing in nature or is it to really say that they strictly believe everything has to come from the natural world and spirits and supernatural things don't exist?

    What’s the problem here?

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/naturalist

    “a person who studies or is an expert in natural history, especially a zoologist or botanist.”

  • Naturalist is the perfect description for the Ranger. I always want to learn everything about the Ranger I love the profession so much! Thanks for the insight from you all!

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The closest conceptual phenomena to "super natural" are pretty much anything associated with the Mists. Supernatural is normally used to describe something that does not (or don't appear to) follow the rules of the natural world. For us Real world people, thats Physics. But keep in mind that this word was coined when "Magic" was the word used in place of accepting ignorance..... and anything magic was inherently evil, but miracles were good, despite both being more or less identical.

    Different races have different levels of philosophical understanding of the natural world. But what they all have in common is the knowledge that Magic and Magical Energy exist, and that they can be manipulated in a wide variety of ways. Ley Energy is just cohesive light, and has a spectrum. Various types of magical energy are compatible with certain materials, and thus tend to be imbued with them. The Difference between Healing Magic and Death Magic is what happens when the vessel is still alive. Energy can be captured and converted to one form or another under the right conditions.

    What makes the Mists different is its a proto-reality (practically pure energy) with an inherent state of Chaos. Pockets of Stability are what form cohesive entities.... and some of those can grow to become a material plane. But despite being separated by a barrier, they are still part of, and interacts, with the same overall system. In the story, the Elder Dragons were acting as a Regulator to the energy flowing around Tyria's system. But when it got released, the high energy state is basically destabilizing reality and breaking the rules. Pockets of other Realities and even Unrealities appear and disappear; some created this way, others coming from other systems.

    Getting back to Rangers (and to a greater extent Ritualists), what differentiates their magic from other schools is their approach is more inline with Evocation. Spirits and Magics are summoned and manifested into the physical world, and that Manifestation acts upon the world. Revs, Eles and Necros are Invokers, which channel energies through themselves (or other objects) to manipulate it. Druid is odd because it does a bit of both. But the naturalist angle implies that they are mainly directing specific types of energies without changing them; and is kind of unique as being the only magic type which can be expressly considered "Life Magic". Even in Tyrian Lore, the Druids are keepers of places where natural order thrives without disruption.

    Another line of distinction is if the school of magic acts as a dominating force. As best I can tell, all schools of magic EXCEPT those used by Rangers falls under this. Ritualists derive their power from another plane of existence, by force of will if necessary. Ranger seem to draw that power from things which occur naturally, such as plants, animals, weather, and the natural products of classical elements; which "appear" to lend assistance. Eles are different in that they actively shape the elements, and imbue them with greater energy, to manipulate what forms they take. These forms are also incredibly destructive, and outright disruptive to their surroundings. Meteors called from the sky, stone erupting from the ground, Lighting arcing between specific targets, Ice formed out of air, blasts of pure energy exploding outward. They don't just use the elements, they "control" it.