Let's Talk About PvP Balance - Page 10 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Let's Talk About PvP Balance

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  • @Dea Beyond.5183 said:
    STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.
    WHAT you que on , thats what you should play, because you should love what you play, and not swap just because you do everything for the win.

    In top plat , this is manipulated all day long, so that they que on double thiefs . for ex , and then they swap to counter the class, like full HOLO+REV/HOLO+NEC ,Fireshits + Nec/,etc...
    Whatever you QUE'D on is what you actually wanted to play.This would bring move FUN,SKILLS and DIVERSITY to the combos that guys are running , no mater if they are 2 , 3 or more of the same class. I've seen in the past with the old system when we had like 3,4 thiefs in the same team and won the game even if they joked about the team at the start.(nobody wanted to swap because that's what they loved), but nowadays is dude swap swap swap in one side of the team and in the other one nobody swaps.

    I would rather play with whatever professions i get in my team , at any time compared to the current anti-swap that happens today.

    Make the ladder less volatile, so that is a true testimony of the skills /21 PVP games at least, or 30 .That would mean actually having to work for the ladder, and not manipulate it all day, how they do it on NA.

    Now those are some proper ideas, that I would love to see them .Hopefully dreams come true, or at least a part of them.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    @Dea Beyond.5183 said:
    STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.

    I fully agree with that.
    Also, stop forcing us to abort the queue just for changing maps.
    Just keep the queue going on the next map instead of having to restart it.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    • Heavy focus on skill splitting Engi, Ele, Revenant, Druid support skills until they're JUST good enough to where you can build around them in PvP and be part of a balanced metagame.
    • Nerf personal long-term sustain across the board until 1v1s when played optimally will end within 60 seconds of continuous brawling.

    This, and another thing I wish they would do is reduce all mobility (long range leaps/movement skills) to actually make rotations matter more than it does now, even if you outnumber a certain class right now you can save a fight because of the crazy amount of mobility there is.

    It might get fixed already by your idea to nerf sustain in the 1v1s that a +1 might matter more, I just wish mobility was brought down a notch, right now you can probably leap through a whole map with mobility skills which is just insane imo

    Yep, definitely this. Good example would be well....just about everything.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi Everyone,

    I wanted to clarify something from today’s blog post while also kicking off a discussion on a topic that’s near and dear to most competitive players: balance.

    It’s important to understand that as competitive handles competitive balance, we will continue to primarily use skill splits in order to minimize the impact on the rest of the game. It’s certainly true that not all issues can be addressed through splits, and we will continue to work with the skills team to make sure we are making the right changes for the entire game when splitting is not a viable option.

    Mini Balance Roadmap

    We have identified the overall power of the game has become an issue and we wish to address this in the competitive game modes.

    The next balance update is going to be smaller than usual. We want to make a handful of very targeted changes to address the biggest pain points in the current meta, but we also want to bank some time for bigger plans moving forward. For a future balance update, we are looking at major adjustments across the board. The goal is to re-establish what the overall power level for competitive modes, and then bring everything down to meet that. In true gw2 fashion, everything is on the table.

    With that said, we’re not going to nerf just for the sake of nerfing. Every change should make sense, and every change should be working toward a bigger goal. This patch is still super early in development, so I don’t want to go into too much detail, but it’s definitely something we want to talk about more moving forward. As mentioned in the blog post, we want to keep the community involved early and often when it comes to balance.

    So, for the purpose of this discussion, consider these two future updates. First for the short-term: What outliers do you see in the current meta? Then think about the big picture: What issues do you see on a fundamental level that should be addressed? Think outside of the current meta and instead about what you want the meta to look like from a power-level perspective. Keep in mind that a majority of changes should be splits, but feel free to also call out issues that you feel cannot be addressed by splits.

    This post is intentionally starting a broad discussion as a jumping off point into the new communication of the Systems team, but keep in mind that in the future our posts are generally going to be more targeted at specific issues as we won’t have as much time to handle giant discussions.

    I wanted to keep this initial post fairly short, so please ask questions about anything that is unclear. Otherwise, let’s talk balance.

    cmc

    If so are you planning to overhaul scourge for PvE? I know this is not related to PVP but the changes of yours towards WVW hurt scourges a lot in PVE and SPVP where they are less of a problem.

    Is there any plan to buff the big buffer classes in SPVP that spam? folks are complaining since the nerf of necro's in SPVP that buffer classes are running around with free reign.

    Another question: How do you plan to deal with Reaper shroud? without quickness, reapers feel slow and cumbersome and at a massive disadvantage vs other classes, combined with the culling of might generation.

    Thief related question:

    How do you plan to deal with mobile classes? In my opinion, thieves is one of the classes that should stay extremely mobile, since they use it defensively and offensively. Other classes who combine invuln and mobility just combine too much sustain.

    Do you plan to nerf S/D? how?

    Do you plan on buffing any damage on thief abilities to compensate?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Lich King.1524Lich King.1524 Member ✭✭
    edited November 23, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi Everyone,

    I wanted to clarify something from today’s blog post while also kicking off a discussion on a topic that’s near and dear to most competitive players: balance.

    It’s important to understand that as competitive handles competitive balance, we will continue to primarily use skill splits in order to minimize the impact on the rest of the game. It’s certainly true that not all issues can be addressed through splits, and we will continue to work with the skills team to make sure we are making the right changes for the entire game when splitting is not a viable option.

    Mini Balance Roadmap

    We have identified the overall power of the game has become an issue and we wish to address this in the competitive game modes.

    The next balance update is going to be smaller than usual. We want to make a handful of very targeted changes to address the biggest pain points in the current meta, but we also want to bank some time for bigger plans moving forward. For a future balance update, we are looking at major adjustments across the board. The goal is to re-establish what the overall power level for competitive modes, and then bring everything down to meet that. In true gw2 fashion, everything is on the table.

    With that said, we’re not going to nerf just for the sake of nerfing. Every change should make sense, and every change should be working toward a bigger goal. This patch is still super early in development, so I don’t want to go into too much detail, but it’s definitely something we want to talk about more moving forward. As mentioned in the blog post, we want to keep the community involved early and often when it comes to balance.

    So, for the purpose of this discussion, consider these two future updates. First for the short-term: What outliers do you see in the current meta? Then think about the big picture: What issues do you see on a fundamental level that should be addressed? Think outside of the current meta and instead about what you want the meta to look like from a power-level perspective. Keep in mind that a majority of changes should be splits, but feel free to also call out issues that you feel cannot be addressed by splits.

    This post is intentionally starting a broad discussion as a jumping off point into the new communication of the Systems team, but keep in mind that in the future our posts are generally going to be more targeted at specific issues as we won’t have as much time to handle giant discussions.

    I wanted to keep this initial post fairly short, so please ask questions about anything that is unclear. Otherwise, let’s talk balance.

    cmc

    Dear Cal Cohen,

    Thank you for your message. It's a good intention.
    From a proper PvP-design point of view may suggest a strategic direction which will improve PvP dramatically:

    1) Make Stone-Scissors-Paper model, each strong attack/spell MUST have a) countermeasure OR b) big trade-off.
    This is basics you know, but this is incredible important strategic understanding. Today it's very broken.
    If players can not react (to one-shot, or perma-stun) it's VERY disappointing and NOT FUN to play against.

    Class can do very powerful and quick melee damage - make it vulnerable to CC and make single target damage only;
    Class can do very powerful range damage - make these skills slow and add visible telegraphs and very vulnerable to reflect;
    Class can do very powerful and dangerous AOE damage - make it without heal as a trade-off and create visible telegraphs and sound;
    Class can have very strong buffs and heal, make it vulnerable to disenchantment or debuffs
    etc.

    2) Important equal effects from different classes - make it visually equal too, also make it more VISIBLE: Regeneration, Block, Stability, Might, etc

    3). Remove other visual noise as much as possible. Each visual effect must be for a purpose. How much football has a visual effects? Each movement and important spell must be very visible then it's a fun to play and even fun to watch (as cybersport).

    4) Remove passive effects as much as possible. It must be active game play.

    5) One attack should not do more than 2 things! Current situation where 1 attack does 10 different things makes game unpredictable and too spamable.

    6) Each strong attack or strong spell MUST be VERY VISIBLE (large telegraph, sound, etc) and must allow to react using countermeasure (if its available: evade, movement, block, interrupt, special skills, protection, etc).

    7) Allow classes to interact more each other to have a proper team-play, for example make fields and blasts and support way more powerful but also way more more separated between classes. Should not be a class "Jack of all trades" class who can make fields, blast them, buff himself and do huge dps and self heal and have strong protection, blocks and CC. It will create real team play and interesting team compositions.

    To play around this idea, without changing current PvP you may do a special game mode (copy-paste conquest) but with new abilities and visuals.
    and then see what players will like more.

    Thank you,

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The "balance" suggestions I am seeing in this thread are borderline atrocious....maybe the devs should just make a new game pvp focused...or save some work and delete all 9 classes and replace them with a single class.....10k HP armed with a stick doing 500 dmg, a button to attack and another to defend...no heal.....are we still playing a kitten MMO or not?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    I totally agree.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

    I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

    But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    We probably all have asked for nerfs to stuff. I once asked for nerfs to chronomancer in terms of support because it was 100% dominant the way firebrand is now in spvp, but it was worse because they were required for raids desired for fractals and dominant in spvp.

    My point is we are all kinda biased in a way or another but he is right about the way we Q_Q for nerfs for classes we either don't want to learn to play against or it just stands a chance against us. People can be malicious even at the higher ranks asking for certain aspects of a class to be gutted for their benefit.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MakeItFit.7062 said:
    The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

    Warriors can be tanky and do stupid amounts of dmg because of the absurd might generation allowed, on average a warrior will have 15 might at worst...perma 25 might not hard to achieve

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

    I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

    But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

    Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

    Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

    Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

    I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

    But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

    Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

    Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

    Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

    Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @MakeItFit.7062 said:
    The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

    I don't agree with this statement at all. Fights are not nearly as long as they could possibly be. Look back at when only core was around. Fights then were much longer, and your build choices mattered more in every aspect of it. Roles were more highly defined, as damage wasn't running rampant everywhere back in the day. Everything that you did 100% mattered and determined the game's ebb and flow. Nowadays, what you do doesn't matter as much because you can always just rely on snowballing to pick up the pace instead of having to strategically think about what your next moves were going to be to come back from a losing situation. The fights now are so quick, because everything is so bursty.

    Tanks are not bad for the game. Bursters are not bad for the game. Duelists are not bad for the game. What's bad for the game is when most builds either give you a superabundance of sustain, or a superabundance of damage, with no real tradeoffs.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @MakeItFit.7062 said:
    The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

    I don't agree with this statement at all. Fights are not nearly as long as they could possibly be. Look back at when only core was around. Fights then were much longer, and your build choices mattered more in every aspect of it. Roles were more highly defined, as damage wasn't running rampant everywhere back in the day. Everything that you did 100% mattered and determined the game's ebb and flow. Nowadays, what you do doesn't matter as much because you can always just rely on snowballing to pick up the pace instead of having to strategically think about what your next moves were going to be to come back from a losing situation. The fights now are so quick, because everything is so bursty.

    Tanks are not bad for the game. Bursters are not bad for the game. Duelists are not bad for the game. What's bad for the game is when most builds either give you a superabundance of sustain, or a superabundance of damage, with no real tradeoffs.

    I kind of agree with this to be honest ^

    Tanks are pretty irrelevant right now because damage is too high. 1 player can chew through a 2.3k or higher toughness build like a hot knife through butter which should not happen.

    I think being able to defend against 1 player for an extended amount of time if you have no damage is fine how ever you should not be able to defend against 2 for a long period or 3 players hardly at all which is where the HoT meta was too unbalanced. Tempest could 1v5 on a point Reaper could 1v3 etc.

    Tanks and bruisers are not bad for the game they give variety but need to be balanced carefully.

    1 shot dps that can 1 shot anything regardless of how it builds, insta melting condition burst, perma boon dripping builds, and builds that lack counterplay are very unhealthy imo and we have more of these things today than we ever had before.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @Dea Beyond.5183 said:
    STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.
    WHAT you que on , thats what you should play, because you should love what you play, and not swap just because you do everything for the win.

    I agree with the statement but not the premise.
    If people want to play for the win, let them. They should not be allowed to do that by joining queue with a weak pvp class to ensure the other team gets one, then swapping off to steamroll them.
    That is a twopronged issue that can be fixed by making every class competitively viable, and not allowing people to swap once they join without being ejected from the match.

    Leave how people -should- feel out of it. You'll never get everyone to feel a certain way about this game or its modes.
    Other than that, absolutely agree.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

    I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

    But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

    Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

    Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

    Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

    Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

    It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

    People need to stop taking things to extremes.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

    I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

    But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

    Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

    Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

    Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

    Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

    It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

    People need to stop taking things to extremes.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

    I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

    But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

    Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

    Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

    Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

    Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

    It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

    People need to stop taking things to extremes.

    Is your day job a high school guidance counselor?

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • edited November 27, 2019

    @Dea Beyond.5183 said:
    STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.
    WHAT you que on , thats what you should play, because you should love what you play, and not swap just because you do everything for the win.

    In top plat , this is manipulated all day long, so that they que on double thiefs . for ex , and then they swap to counter the class, like full HOLO+REV/HOLO+NEC ,Fireshits + Nec/,etc...
    Whatever you QUE'D on is what you actually wanted to play.This would bring move FUN,SKILLS and DIVERSITY to the combos that guys are running , no mater if they are 2 , 3 or more of the same class. I've seen in the past with the old system when we had like 3,4 thiefs in the same team and won the game even if they joked about the team at the start.(nobody wanted to swap because that's what they loved), but nowadays is dude swap swap swap in one side of the team and in the other one nobody swaps.

    I would rather play with whatever professions i get in my team , at any time compared to the current anti-swap that happens today.

    Make the ladder less volatile, so that is a true testimony of the skills /21 PVP games at least, or 30 .That would mean actually having to work for the ladder, and not manipulate it all day, how they do it on NA.

    These are some good ideas , that would make the game more exciting and less of play for win as they swap only to counter.

    I would love to have teammates that have qued what they wanted and not have them swap again to something else after .You qued so , you stay so. You guys made the ladder to sync each and each profession , so WHERE IS THE IDEA at the END of DAY. Game syncs each profession on each side , so that you can swap it in the time limit to back to whatever u so desire after the game tried to make it syncable.Whats the point of trying to sync the game vs each profession when anybody can que on the noobest profession ever and when timeframe comes , there it goes our hereo and swaps to unbalance the balance.

    So at the end of day , the fact that the game tries to sync is actually unsyncing us because you gives us the opportunity to swap back in the 1 min countdown, just because you want to bring joy and be happy that you are playing an OP unbalanced profession , as you can see on metabattle.Now we have template , we can play each profession on different builds in a matter of seconds.Everybody can rerol the traits if they so desire and not the character.

    In gw1 , you had perfect pvp system. WHERE is THAT GONE??????????
    If YOU WIN WITH 4 RANDOMS YOU LEFT US GO ALL THE WAY TILL WE LOST , or at 25 VICTORIES.
    You had random games , and u went all the way to Team arenas to 25 victories,but u were only meant to meat team arenas after 5 wins, and as long as u won u were golden.
    SO much JOY HAD BEEN IN THOSE PVP GAMES, that you actually felt something, and with 4 random pugs u were syncing and talking to a greater purpose.
    BUT here you guys que us with the same , then you move 1 or 2 as enemies, u push som bronze and gold ones in the platinum games, so that you que system can see how much u can carry.

    1 to 5 GAME WINS , SOLO ques.- no premades allowed, not even with 2.
    5 to 10 GAMES WINS- ques that are made of 2 peoples,
    10 game WINS upwards- TEamPLAY teams - let them sync with +5 guys.

    If we win with some pugs , let us go all the way till we lose.
    Implement the no premade limit , so it cannnot be manipulated in either way shape on form for at least a 90% chance.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

    Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

    This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

    Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

    I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

    Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

    I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

    I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

    But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

    Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

    Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

    Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

    Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

    It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

    People need to stop taking things to extremes.

    Is your day job a high school guidance counselor?

    much better, I Am A Truth-Bearer

  • Nugnfutz.8245Nugnfutz.8245 Member
    edited December 3, 2019

    I'd like to see an AVOID PRE-MADE checkbox in unranked. As a casual PvPer - I don't find it particularly fun nor balanced to get trounced by groups testing out their new specs and tactics...

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member
    edited December 3, 2019

    I suggest not making the same mistake that WoW did. Pruning mechanics and nerfing outliers sounds good on paper, but do so willy-nilly and you'll just bring about a reverse power creep. We see this in WoW where you have classes with literal one button rotations (Arcane Mage) being complained about because they have too many tools. Not because they're overloaded, but because they're one of the very few ranged classes that can still kite after others lost all their mobility.

    Instead of repeatedly nerfing outliers and bringing on a reverse power creep. I suggest tweaking builds which encourage degenerate gameplay styles.

    Weaver's constant evades, heals, and condi applications are obnoxious, but they have the trade off of a low health pool, low armor value, and the need to get up close and personal. Strong, but not degenerate.

    Power Mesmer, though not the strongest build, thrives on popping out of stealth and 100-0'ing foes before they can reasonably be expected to react. Mesmer has counterplay in that you can easily avoid the burst if you know it's coming, but stealth removes this option, leaving you with the choices of:

    Hope the mesmer messes up his burst

    Hope he gets unlucky with crits

    Pray you have a passive trait to save you.

    Power mesmer is a build that i would call mediocre in terms of strength but very degenerate. I suggest tweaks to classes like this. It doesn't have to be a nerf. A net neutral change that encourages a more healthy gameplay pattern would be ideal in this case.

    I would also suggest looking at fixing some fundamental issues with competetive:

    time to kill in general is much too low.

    Condis should not be as bursty as they are. Condi specs should focus on dealing damage over time while kiting to allow those Dots to tick.

    Going back to the weaver example. If you were to nerf them, Weaver could stand to lose a bit of base damage on their condis, but gain increased duration to compensate. A change like that would fit their playstyle of being a slippery sustain machine that wears you down over time.

    Bruiser-ish builds should not be able to "One shot". If you're running Demolisher amulet, a few defensive traits, and some defensive utilities to let you disengage if you make a mistake, you should not be able to one shot. Builds like this should specialize in scrapping it out with foes, dishing out enough damage to kill foes with a well timed stun after the target has been softened up, but not enough to consitently 100-0.

    Going back to the example of Power mesmer, the current meta build uses a marauder amulet, and has the luxury of running the Mirage traitline. Mirage gives them access to plenty of defensive utilities from mirage mirrors, to mirage cloak, to regen. A build like this should be less busty, but should also be more useful in an extended fight.

    Changes like this are what I'd suggest.

    Edit: Also for the love of all things Guild Wars, BUFF DRUID.

  • Actually water weaver is just like scrapper pre nerfs, can‘t lose node and basically can’t die. This will only get worse after balance patch

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @torben.1532 said:
    Actually water weaver is just like scrapper pre nerfs, can‘t lose node and basically can’t die. This will only get worse after balance patch

    This^

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    I mildly agree with you to an extent but no some outliers need to be removed from the game the extreme ones need to go. For example rampage hainvg cc skills doing 8-12k damage that can be chained together is not ok that needs to not be a thing. Am I happy about how they changed it no but the change IS needed.

    Mesmer staff (utility weapon) having hella damage with low risk as a defenisve evaseive playstyle is not ok.

    Also yes buff druid but dont make it where they can just be selfish with the sustain/healing buff increase if you are going to buff it make it so that its buffs are mostly about playing a bigger role on abilities used on allies not itself.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    gw2 need some thing that can break the death ball that is fb+nec.
    spellbreaker i assume was supposed to do that, but nah, it's still a side noder that does nothing else since 2012

  • You nerfed the damage classes but left the tank classes alone. Gonna be a constant drag dealing with the FB and eles now. No more pvp for a while. GG

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member
    edited December 5, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    I mildly agree with you to an extent but no some outliers need to be removed from the game the extreme ones need to go. For example rampage hainvg cc skills doing 8-12k damage that can be chained together is not ok that needs to not be a thing. Am I happy about how they changed it no but the change IS needed.

    Mesmer staff (utility weapon) having hella damage with low risk as a defenisve evaseive playstyle is not ok.

    Also yes buff druid but dont make it where they can just be selfish with the sustain/healing buff increase if you are going to buff it make it so that its buffs are mostly about playing a bigger role on abilities used on allies not itself.

    I actually agree with you on this. I suppose I could have done a better job of clarifying that in my post. My argument was not that you shouldn't ever nerf outliers. Sometimes things are clearly over-performing and need to be toned down (ex. Pre-nerf holo). It was not okay that holo had as much damage as it did, while having access to on-demand stab, stealth, high-vigor uptime, mobility, incredible sustain, moderate team support with healing turret and elixirs, and tons of CC which was easy to land on multiple targets by accident. All of this, while running a semi-tanky build.

    My post was made in attempt to point out that, when the outliers get nerfed, other classes, which were previously held in check by said outliers will rise up and become the outliers themselves. This will repeat indefinitely until every class has been stripped down to their bare bones. In a game like guild wars with so many different classes and builds, perfect balance is virtually impossible. There are simply too many factors to take into account.

    For that reason, once the obviously overloaded classes have been toned down, it's important to start asking which classes are too strong and which are simply a bi-product of the meta. Start focusing more on which play styles we want to promote, and which are unhealthy.

  • HardRider.2980HardRider.2980 Member ✭✭✭

    well classes got nerfed as people were crying over them and now we have a meta that it's dog bad because of it.. gg

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • Taarakian.8462Taarakian.8462 Member
    edited December 6, 2019

    Stop the cheating in Ranked PvP. We have 2 players as of today (12-6-2019) with identical win ratios in season 19. They both have 93 wins and 7 loses. How is this even a thing. 1st and 2nd place. same score.
    See for yourselves.

  • Flandre.2870Flandre.2870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2019

    Thief needs to be looked at. Sword2 range is just ridic at this point, halve it.
    The cleanse 1 sec icd trait on daredevil needs to be 10s icd. Everyone would still use it. It heals 3x more than ur heal per minute and cleanses 9x more than us condicleanse skill. What a mess
    It's time for acro to go. It's been a toxic traitline to pvp since core.

    Thief is absolutely necessary in mat meta and absolutely classtackable.