Let's Talk About PvP Balance - Page 9 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Let's Talk About PvP Balance

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  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    If you guys want to make Renegade summons viable, each summon should be a complete 100-0 or near 100-0 through sheer damage or overpowering effect causing a loss in combat effectiveness (cc or condition combos of some sort).

    As it is right now for the summons to have their complete effect you are required to sit in them for their entire duration. Well, if you sit in them for the full duration now it’s negligible the effect they have, even more if there are multiple enemies standing in them.

    It just falls flat logically. You have to outplay enemies so severe that you cause them to be inside of your non-snaring AOE for multiple seconds. Then, after the time passes the overall effect is equal to, or in reality, weaker than even instant casts.

    It still fails after all the extreme, +333% damage increases some of the Renegade toolkit has seen for a reason.

    There’s a thread in rev forum about this as well, as I stated there renegade utilities need to became full wards or tweaked to summons based on ammo that will atack the enemy like some Mesmer clones do, a bit similar with diablo 3 guardian spirit army thing.

    Be VERY careful what you wish for. There is a reason why they changed phantasms away from this and there are many many problems with clones on both sides of the fight.

  • OP: Let's Talk About PvP Balance
    Me: why are we talking about something that doesnt exist?

  • We will talk again how much time before the changes

  • tinybike.4715tinybike.4715 Member
    edited November 4, 2019

    My friends and I recently migrated to GW2 from WoW, primarily due to disgust with Blizzard as a company (re: Blitzchung/HK). We mostly did casual PvP (battlegrounds) in WoW and we were hoping to have a similar experience in GW2's structured PvP. So far, we've been pretty disappointed, and we're giving up on GW2 PvP for now. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find that this thread exists, and that serious changes are being considered; I definitely would be willing to give GW2 PvP another try if some balance changes are made.

    In case it's helpful, here are the three main issues I've noticed:

    1. Damage is tuned too high relative to player health pools. I think this is by far the biggest problem, because it means that you can be bursted down before you even have a chance to react. Getting one-shotted simply isn't fun. Fortunately, the solution to this is pretty simple: just give player health pools a significant boost (i.e., instead of around 20k health, a player would have around 200k health). I remember that WoW had exactly this same problem several years ago (during WotLK), and the issue was resolved in exactly this way: massively boosting player health.

    2. Professions seem to be seriously imbalanced. Your proposed fixes in https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91447/potential-future-balance-changes-pvp seem like a reasonable first stab. One other piece of (hopefully) low-hanging fruit is re-stealthing. My suggestion is to simply remove this mechanic from PvP altogether. Stealth is an extremely powerful mechanic, and generally in MMOs you cannot re-stealth once you've entered combat, or, if you can, it's only by using a special re-stealth ability that has a long cooldown. For what it's worth, as someone new to this game, repeated re-stealthing was the first thing that jumped out at me as a "minigame" red flag (as in, "if this is in the game, the developers must just see PvP as a minigame, and PvP balancing probably isn't even something they think about").

    3. It's often hard to tell what's going on during combat. I think this is primarily due to insufficient visual differentiation between avatars, skills, and the environment; I suspect not much can be done about this at this stage in the game's development. One thing that might help is an option to make the UI elements less subtle -- for example, bigger/brighter/higher-contrast targeting graphics, larger fonts with outlines, etc.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @tinybike.4715 said:
    I was pleasantly surprised to find that this thread exists, and that serious changes are being considered; I definitely would be willing to give GW2 PvP another try if some balance changes are made.

    You have to remind yourself that it's the players who consider changes in for a balance around top players.
    It's not Arenanet who want to make major changes.
    I can't even recall a single time that Arenanet answered with concrete changes before they were applied.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @tinybike.4715 said:
    I was pleasantly surprised to find that this thread exists, and that serious changes are being considered; I definitely would be willing to give GW2 PvP another try if some balance changes are made.

    You have to remind yourself that it's the players who consider changes in for a balance around top players.
    It's not Arenanet who want to make major changes.
    I can't even recall a single time that Arenanet answered with concrete changes before they were applied.

    Maybe Arenanet is turning over a new leaf in that regard? The changes proposed in the other thread (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91447/potential-future-balance-changes-pvp) seem pretty concrete to me.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @tinybike.4715 said:
    Maybe Arenanet is turning over a new leaf in that regard? The changes proposed in the other thread (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91447/potential-future-balance-changes-pvp) seem pretty concrete to me.

    I haven't seen that thread before.
    But it's quite a small list of changes, compared to what needs to be done.

  • Fundamental Changes:

    Condition Damage:
    Someone touched on it already in this thread, and I'd like to highlight it again. DoT effects should not have the same level of burst as power dmg. It is completely asinine that any of the condition specs can apply 10+ conditions in a miniscule amount of time and that those conditions put a comparative amount of offensive pressure as say a power burst rotation. There should be SOME distinction between the amount of damage done by a condition "rotation" and a power rotation.

    Condition Cleanse:
    Having said what I did about condition damage is necessarily tied into condition cleanse. If condition damage is consequently nerfed as a result of fundamental balance changes, cleanse should then also be nerfed. The point is not to remove condition specs from the game entirely - it should be to define them differently than a power spec. Condition cleanse being as strong as it is (for some classes at least) will likely push out condition damage specs from any semblance of being meta if they, too, are not nerfed relative to condition damage.

    Perma-Anything:
    Having the ability to max out on a boon, a stealth, etc. is not something that is healthy for the game. It promotes extreme builds that focus on one thing, and that one thing pushes it over the edge because 25 stacks of might isn't something that the game is designed around in terms of raw damage output vs. raw health points and healing output. Either remove the ability to maintain perma-anything or make it so incredibly difficult that it will hamstring the rest of the build to a point of relative irrelevance.

    Class Changes:

    Mesmer:
    In conjunction with the condition damage change, the passive damage that mirages can pump out as a result of their clones is wildly overtuned - they already have an inherent advantage of having multiple copies of themselves that a person has to manage. It should not be the case that those copies are also putting an unnecessary amount of offensive pressure on the opponent.

    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Guardian:
    Firebrand pushes SO many specs out of the meta that it is arguably one of the most obnoxious elite specializations in the game currently. A lot of people complain about condi thieves and mirages or holos, but the biggest culprit of meta imbalance is Firebrand. It is by far the spec that can single-handedly carry a game with how generally good it is. It should be a Jack of all trades, master of none. Instead, it is a master of literally everything aside from mobility. That is the down-fall, it is slow. That should NOT be a viable reason for something be wildly overtuned in almost all other aspects of its gameplay. Nerf. Firebrand. Kill. It. With. Fire.

    Necro:
    Fine. Maybe nerf Reaper damage. The spec is really easy to play and do a lot of damage with, which is a problem. It isn't the worst thing in the world of course; however, it is gaining popularity simply due to how simple it is to pilot and still dish out an incomparable amount of damage.

    Engineer:
    Holo. Smith. Goodness gracious. If Firebrand is the most obnoxious elite specialization to play against, then holosmith is the second. And, I am sure there are arguments to be made that could flip those in a tier list. Holosmith has the same problem of being designed as a jack of all trades, master of none but operating as a master of all. It is too overtuned in almost all aspects of its gameplay, and it needs to be brought down to a reasonable power level. Focus on one or two things that can make the spec stand out, but having the entire specialization be an homage to imbalance is wildly unhealthy for the game. Nerf. Holo. Smith.

    I will add more thoughts on classes/specs later, but that is mostly it for now.

  • Theros.1390Theros.1390 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    Also, you guys should consider a balance of Reckless impact

    an unblockable 3k+ damages dodge roll + 5 sec of might is clearly too much.

    A Warrior should hit to hurt, not roll :)

    And nowadays it seems like 40% of their total damages are coming from their dodges. (Just watch any warrior video, you'll see em dodge a lot, not to evade attacks, but just to deal damages).

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Theros.1390 said:
    Also, you guys should consider a balance of Reckless impact

    an unblockable 3k+ damages dodge roll + 5 sec of might is clearly too much.

    A Warrior should hit to hurt, not roll :)

    And nowadays it seems like 40% of their total damages are coming from their dodges. (Just watch any warrior video, you'll see em dodge a lot, not to evade attacks, but just to deal damages).

    the fact that its aoe, unblockable, hits hard and provides might ( so it also heals ) ... wowsies.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    U guys all whined about condi thief kitten now pvp is just fire weavers/condi tempests, fb/burn guards,scourges and condi mirages spammed in every match haha god the community deserves this garbage. Over and over they push the devs into creating a even worse clown fiest, they'll never learn

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    (...)condi tempests, (...)burn guards(...)

    What the heck did I just read?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    (...)condi tempests, (...)burn guards(...)

    What the heck did I just read?

    Seriously? Ur gonna pretend that their ok? This games future is brite.
    It's not so much the specs themselves as condi is tuned to far for any class that churns it out at a continual rate. A burn guard/fb can burst any spec in seconds as can a fire weaver etc etc. Pvp matches are literally getting to the point where the nodes in conquest look like mini zerg fights in wvw, condi circles stacked continually. I've sat and watched laughing from outside the zone at all all the ridiculous condi spam there is on every node and in every fight. Until the community starts calling for condi nerfs on all the classes that literally kitten them out even if it's their class the pvp in this game will be a joke and will never regain a health population. But instead they cry about just the few annoying specs that have a hate following until their useless leaving the others unchecked which is the cycle that is gw2 balancing throughout the yrs.

  • @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Fundamental Changes:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Squishiness isn't a concept focused solely around health pool total. If that was the case, guardian would be the glassiest class of all. You have to account for all of thief's evade skills (outside dodge having a cast and aftercast time. "Perma-avoidance" isn't a realistic concept. Also, meriting every thief build to be low risk / high reward is grossly underplaying the thief player base and class as a whole.

    Carrion Amulet sacrifices a lot of condi uptime in favor or survivability and initial "burst". You have to take venom sigils, and if you take venom sigils you lose out on boon and condi removal, since the second sigil almost has to be energy because you're unlikely to be taking Signet of Agility because you need a 2nd stun break for warriors and holos.

    Fine. Maybe nerf Reaper damage. The spec is really easy to play and do a lot of damage with, which is a problem.

    A lot of reaper damage is very telegraphed, and almost always follows a pattern. With the removal of sigil of agility, reaper will be very easy to dodge since their only quickness access will be the initial cast of Reaper Shroud.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    (...)condi tempests, (...)burn guards(...)

    What the heck did I just read?

    Seriously? Ur gonna pretend that their ok? This games future is brite.
    (...)

    I mean, I understand most of the classes you mentioned. Even burn guard, which is incredibly weak atm, but okay.

    But condi tempest?! :lol:

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    (...)condi tempests, (...)burn guards(...)

    What the heck did I just read?

    Seriously? Ur gonna pretend that their ok? This games future is brite.
    (...)

    I mean, I understand most of the classes you mentioned. Even burn guard, which is incredibly weak atm, but okay.

    But condi tempest?! :lol:

    Tempest isnt nearly as strong as fire weaver but due to condi's being how they are right now anything that craps condi's is broken and burn gaurd is far far from weak right now. Boons are another issue as well as I literally just sat in arena with a soulbeast targeted and watched his boons. He literally had quickness,protection,vigor and few more boons continually applying the second the stacks ran out so basically perma boons lmao yeah games balanced great these days

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

    God's love thank you! , I have to wait for a honest thief player to come out and state the issues at hand. I have already stated that CC lock must go from this game and particularly I am looking at Headshot and Pistolwhipe, both those skills allow the thief player to assume two very frustrating playstyles to deal with.

    1) Headshot : the thief just prevents you from doing any action by repeatedly spamming https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot at 4 ini for 15 ini, they can prevent you from using any skill meanwhile they pressure you with their AA spam , it's very hard to outplay a thief playing this way if you haven't got instant cast heals, instant stealth (like mesmers and engis) or passive heal ( like wars and eles )

    2)PistolWhip : Again a spammable stun with baked in evade, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip the thief just teleport in and can't be hit while cleaving for great amounts of dmg

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    I wanted to keep this initial post fairly short, so please ask questions about anything that is unclear. Otherwise, let’s talk balance.

    Thank you for the update. I don't know what a skill split means.
    Regardless of nerfing and buffing, there will always be players who are more skilled (quicker with the keys, more knowledgeable about build and rotation, etc.) than others. So when I think of pvp balance, I think more of the team matchups. It's so much more exhilarating to play against people of equal (or close to it) skill, where points are neck in neck. As it is, I only come across a few of those, but more often it's against better skilled players whose only challenge is to keep us from scoring because they can down an opponent before we can even block them. It's demoralizing. :'(
    Isn't it possible to group divisions for better team matchups? For example, a mix of Bronze and Silvers against other Bronze and Silvers. Same with Gold and Platinums.
    Legendaries can challenge themselves with other Legendaries.
    I have no idea what this would involve or how difficult it would be for the developers. Just and observation/suggestion.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

    God's love thank you! , I have to wait for a honest thief player to come out and state the issues at hand. I have already stated that CC lock must go from this game and particularly I am looking at Headshot and Pistolwhipe, both those skills allow the thief player to assume two very frustrating playstyles to deal with.

    1) Headshot : the thief just prevents you from doing any action by repeatedly spamming https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot at 4 ini for 15 ini, they can prevent you from using any skill meanwhile they pressure you with their AA spam , it's very hard to outplay a thief playing this way if you haven't got instant cast heals, instant stealth (like mesmers and engis) or passive heal ( like wars and eles )

    2)PistolWhip : Again a spammable stun with baked in evade, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip the thief just teleport in and can't be hit while cleaving for great amounts of dmg

    Wow! Yeah pistol whip, head shot spam eh repeatedly so u cant do anything lmao either can the thief cuz has no ini. Again actually play the class u complain about before spamming nerf threads. Go try spamming pistol whip or headshot see how it works out for u. Seriously getting to not be funny all these post by players that obviously kno jack kitten. If ur dying to a thief spamming any of the skills u mentioned u have greater problems to worry about. No thief build with pistol in has been meta for a food while now because they needs buffs or other classes toned down to be reliably viable and now their a problem lol. To much.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

    God's love thank you! , I have to wait for a honest thief player to come out and state the issues at hand. I have already stated that CC lock must go from this game and particularly I am looking at Headshot and Pistolwhipe, both those skills allow the thief player to assume two very frustrating playstyles to deal with.

    1) Headshot : the thief just prevents you from doing any action by repeatedly spamming https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot at 4 ini for 15 ini, they can prevent you from using any skill meanwhile they pressure you with their AA spam , it's very hard to outplay a thief playing this way if you haven't got instant cast heals, instant stealth (like mesmers and engis) or passive heal ( like wars and eles )

    2)PistolWhip : Again a spammable stun with baked in evade, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip the thief just teleport in and can't be hit while cleaving for great amounts of dmg

    Wow! Yeah pistol whip, head shot spam eh repeatedly so u cant do anything lmao either can the thief cuz has no ini. Again actually play the class u complain about before spamming nerf threads. Go try spamming pistol whip or headshot see how it works out for u. Seriously getting to not be funny all these post by players that obviously kno jack kitten. If ur dying to a thief spamming any of the skills u mentioned u have greater problems to worry about. No thief build with pistol in has been meta for a food while now because they needs buffs or other classes toned down to be reliably viable and now their a problem lol. To much.

    The same things , you used the same about Stuff/Stuff , DD condition , and the other condtions specs and their Ini cost .
    You should avoid posting anything Balance related :P

    The rest of the community (exluding you) , might have already have used :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lead_Attacks
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Courage_(PvP)

    (let me print schreen the current conversation and w8 3 months, :P
    Then you will tell me that you have played this spec , since childbirth)

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

    God's love thank you! , I have to wait for a honest thief player to come out and state the issues at hand. I have already stated that CC lock must go from this game and particularly I am looking at Headshot and Pistolwhipe, both those skills allow the thief player to assume two very frustrating playstyles to deal with.

    1) Headshot : the thief just prevents you from doing any action by repeatedly spamming https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot at 4 ini for 15 ini, they can prevent you from using any skill meanwhile they pressure you with their AA spam , it's very hard to outplay a thief playing this way if you haven't got instant cast heals, instant stealth (like mesmers and engis) or passive heal ( like wars and eles )

    2)PistolWhip : Again a spammable stun with baked in evade, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip the thief just teleport in and can't be hit while cleaving for great amounts of dmg

    Wow! Yeah pistol whip, head shot spam eh repeatedly so u cant do anything lmao either can the thief cuz has no ini. Again actually play the class u complain about before spamming nerf threads. Go try spamming pistol whip or headshot see how it works out for u. Seriously getting to not be funny all these post by players that obviously kno jack kitten. If ur dying to a thief spamming any of the skills u mentioned u have greater problems to worry about. No thief build with pistol in has been meta for a food while now because they needs buffs or other classes toned down to be reliably viable and now their a problem lol. To much.

    I know, I was wowed as well...

    "Thief out of nowhere.

    325 (Nourishment)
    1,918 (infiltrator's Strike)
    1,902 (Steal)
    1,156 (Pistol Whip)
    2,310 (Pistol Whip)
    133 (Poisoned)
    2,267 (Pistol Whip)
    2,310 (Pistol Whip)
    2,245 (Pistol Whip)
    1,049 (Pistol Whip)
    325 (Nourishment)
    Interrupt (Pistol Whip)
    2,264 (Pistol Whip)
    2,264 (Pistol Whip)
    2,264 (Pistol Whip)
    1,693 (Infiltrator's Strike)
    Evade (Head Shot)
    2,036 (Infiltrator's Strike)
    1,737 (Slice)
    1,803 (Slash)
    325 (Nourishment)
    2,048 (Steal)
    Interrupt (Steal)
    3,899 (Crippling Strike)
    Absorb (Crippled)
    Absorb (Weakness)
    Absorb (Slice)
    807 (Black Powder)
    325 (Nourishment)
    755 (Black Powder)"

    Yeah, thief can spam high damage skills because of initiative. And I use "roll for initiative" if I spam too fast and need more right away. High damage. Hard CC. Ports and movement. Evades in weapons along with dodges. Passive generating resource.

    You can defend poor balance, and designs that are meant for pve that were shoved into pvp modes, all you want, but we aren't stupid. And E-Sports obviously failed for many reasons, so you should think about that.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 You seem to be really worried that the devs are finally looking at fixing up professions and issues for pvp modes.

    edit- And I honestly can tell you're not an objective player judging by this... "the team needs to increase thief skills dps".

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    • Heavy focus on skill splitting Engi, Ele, Revenant, Druid support skills until they're JUST good enough to where you can build around them in PvP and be part of a balanced metagame.
    • Nerf personal long-term sustain across the board until 1v1s when played optimally will end within 60 seconds of continuous brawling.

    This, and another thing I wish they would do is reduce all mobility (long range leaps/movement skills) to actually make rotations matter more than it does now, even if you outnumber a certain class right now you can save a fight because of the crazy amount of mobility there is.

    It might get fixed already by your idea to nerf sustain in the 1v1s that a +1 might matter more, I just wish mobility was brought down a notch, right now you can probably leap through a whole map with mobility skills which is just insane imo

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    Yeah uve hit the nail on the head for the majority of nerf thief threads. players post nerf threads out of spite or ignorance towards a class that they find inherently annoying to fight or are a challenge rather than learn to play. I would bet if a huge majority of these posters tried thief they'd get destroyed so hard so fast but would still have excuses. This game attracts a lot of players who just can't fathom being beat by a better player.

  • @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Fundamental Changes:

    Condition Damage:
    Someone touched on it already in this thread, and I'd like to highlight it again. DoT effects should not have the same level of burst as power dmg. It is completely asinine that any of the condition specs can apply 10+ conditions in a miniscule amount of time and that those conditions put a comparative amount of offensive pressure as say a power burst rotation. There should be SOME distinction between the amount of damage done by a condition "rotation" and a power rotation.

    THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SOOOOO MUCH THIS. It does not help that alot of professions who have this kind of power have more sustain that power builds do as well.

    Condition Cleanse:
    Having said what I did about condition damage is necessarily tied into condition cleanse. If condition damage is consequently nerfed as a result of fundamental balance changes, cleanse should then also be nerfed. The point is not to remove condition specs from the game entirely - it should be to define them differently than a power spec. Condition cleanse being as strong as it is (for some classes at least) will likely push out condition damage specs from any semblance of being meta if they, too, are not nerfed relative to condition damage.

    I agree

    Perma-Anything:
    Having the ability to max out on a boon, a stealth, etc. is not something that is healthy for the game. It promotes extreme builds that focus on one thing, and that one thing pushes it over the edge because 25 stacks of might isn't something that the game is designed around in terms of raw damage output vs. raw health points and healing output. Either remove the ability to maintain perma-anything or make it so incredibly difficult that it will hamstring the rest of the build to a point of relative irrelevance.

    The idea of this is nice but alot of the classes that can currently maintain things like 25 might are pretty limited on boon application as far as number of boons generated. Just note you cant only cull classes good at holding 25 might you have to cull everything classes that can currently hold 25 might should probably still be able to achieve much higher might count on average than others who cant. At the same time others have to lose their protection, vigor, swiftness, regen etc which keeps them alive.

    Class Changes:

    Mesmer:
    In conjunction with the condition damage change, the passive damage that mirages can pump out as a result of their clones is wildly overtuned - they already have an inherent advantage of having multiple copies of themselves that a person has to manage. It should not be the case that those copies are also putting an unnecessary amount of offensive pressure on the opponent.

    I mean yea...

    Guardian:
    Firebrand pushes SO many specs out of the meta that it is arguably one of the most obnoxious elite specializations in the game currently. A lot of people complain about condi thieves and mirages or holos, but the biggest culprit of meta imbalance is Firebrand. It is by far the spec that can single-handedly carry a game with how generally good it is. It should be a Jack of all trades, master of none. Instead, it is a master of literally everything aside from mobility. That is the down-fall, it is slow. That should NOT be a viable reason for something be wildly overtuned in almost all other aspects of its gameplay. Nerf. Firebrand. Kill. It. With. Fire.

    Firebrand only is in need of tweaks core guardian lines and skills are totally fine.

    Necro:
    Fine. Maybe nerf Reaper damage. The spec is really easy to play and do a lot of damage with, which is a problem. It isn't the worst thing in the world of course; however, it is gaining popularity simply due to how simple it is to pilot and still dish out an incomparable amount of damage.

    Kind of inaccurate statement Reaper is gaining popularity not because its damage is high or that its "subjectively" easy to paly. Its because scourge is currently in shambles and core necromancer is beyond subpar due to being outdated in a lot of ways. Reaper is currently the most viable option in pvp (where having more offensive potential is the best defense) for the necromancer profession in general. Core can work but its more or less no more or any less effective its not "in a good place" with the current meta either as many people like to say, should everything else get nerfed down it might be in a "good place" but currently this is not the case. Reaper just being used more because scourge is currently not viable due to this risk/trade off of using it heavily out weighting the reward and potential it has in spvp.
    We also have to remember that reaper has walk to into danger to deal its damage which is still sub par to a lot of other professions and it has no "modern" kit tools to get out like others do. Its based on conditional defense in a meta where condi clear is heavily essential and a part of most players builds while allowing them to keep strong offensive pressure. Necromancer is also known for being focused over all other professions in the game partly because they can be destructive in a team fight but also because they have no easy way outs when focused. The term "really easy" is debatable. Solo play not so easy. Playing with 2 or 3 friends to watch your back 24/7 yeah kinda easy.

    Engineer:
    Holo. Smith. Goodness gracious. If Firebrand is the most obnoxious elite specialization to play against, then holosmith is the second. And, I am sure there are arguments to be made that could flip those in a tier list. Holosmith has the same problem of being designed as a jack of all trades, master of none but operating as a master of all. It is too overtuned in almost all aspects of its gameplay, and it needs to be brought down to a reasonable power level. Focus on one or two things that can make the spec stand out, but having the entire specialization be an homage to imbalance is wildly unhealthy for the game. Nerf. Holo. Smith.

    It just needs more risk, up the heat cost in forge make over heating a bigger risk to balance out the power they have.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    Ahhhhhh so I guess sindrener is clueess cuz he was the one that stated mesmer was the main reason why no one in esl wanted to touch gw2 due to the current balance of mesmer with the rest of the game. I'm also using that time frame as a reference to show a lot of other specs have had a huge mpact on gw2 balance than just thief. And the fact ur defending the hyperbole propaganda type speeches of a certain poster leads me to think ur pretty clueless. Oh and some mesmer players jumped to thief lmao so what? It's the closest playstyle to mesmer and if it fit the comps better why wouldn't they. So by ur logic thief supreme cause off issues if it's ever in a better spot the mesmer? Get real what a joke.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    Ahhhhhh so I guess sindrener is clueess cuz he was the one that stated mesmer was the main reason why no one in esl wanted to touch gw2 due to the current balance of mesmer with the rest of the game. I'm also using that time frame as a reference to show a lot of other specs have had a huge mpact on gw2 balance than just thief. And the fact ur defending the hyperbole propaganda type speeches of a certain poster leads me to think ur pretty clueless. Oh and some mesmer players jumped to thief lmao so what? It's the closest playstyle to mesmer and if it fit the comps better why wouldn't they. So by ur logic thief supreme cause off issues if it's ever in a better spot the mesmer? Get real what a joke.

    If you are not Helseth , you are an oathbreaker to me .
    Buff up >bring something new in the meta>bail out .
    bbb

    If you are cluesses , and you dont know that 2015 Mesmers spec , didnt have the current 2019 evasive capibilities . So it was NOT closer to the EVASIVE S/D THIEF .
    It gives you a hint that a top player dropped his SPAMM CLONE/MEDIUM CONDITION/HIGH BURST + MASS Teleport Ulti, to play a character that was 80% of the time immune for the money

    Just stop typying , so you wont get rediculued any more ;
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2019

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    Thief:
    There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

    Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on thief anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

    As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

    I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.
    Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".
    People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.
    why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.
    Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

    The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

    No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

    In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

    The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

    -You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

    I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

    Man what world do u live in? Lol.
    So I heard a couple of top players saying mesmer and how broken it was was a huge part of why esl didn't work out, not thief. How does thief's design effect other players anymore than any other class does? Lol u speak absolute nonsense.

    Except top mesmers , like Supcutie (NA).... where dropping their mesmers , to use the S/d evade theif in the 100.000 tournaments .
    Cluess guy

    Edit:
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    Ahhhhhh so I guess sindrener is clueess cuz he was the one that stated mesmer was the main reason why no one in esl wanted to touch gw2 due to the current balance of mesmer with the rest of the game. I'm also using that time frame as a reference to show a lot of other specs have had a huge mpact on gw2 balance than just thief. And the fact ur defending the hyperbole propaganda type speeches of a certain poster leads me to think ur pretty clueless. Oh and some mesmer players jumped to thief lmao so what? It's the closest playstyle to mesmer and if it fit the comps better why wouldn't they. So by ur logic thief supreme cause off issues if it's ever in a better spot the mesmer? Get real what a joke.

    If you are not Helseth , you are an oathbreaker to me .
    Buff up >bring something new in the meta>bail out .
    bbb

    If you are cluesses , and you dont know that 2015 Mesmers spec , didnt have the current 2019 evasive capibilities . So it was NOT closer to the EVASIVE S/D THIEF .
    It gives you a hint that a top player dropped his SPAMM CLONE/MEDIUM CONDITION/HIGH BURST + MASS Teleport Ulti, to play a character that was 80% of the time immune for the money

    Just stop typying , so you wont get rediculued any more ;
    https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta#.VLUoBeUxwO0.reddit

    Umm if I'm not herseth I'm a aothbreaker what, sry I dont speak neck beard or whatever geek garbage ur on about but I am gonna stop typing cuz reading ur gibberish is actually some how worse than burny's. If ur to simple to get a class that's glassy using miss direction and other untoward type skills as being closest to thief than ur a waste of covo. U can keep replying ur nonsense but I'm done wasting brain cells reading ur seriously special replies.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2019

    Let me , make it simple
    You are a casual , that simply promotes powercreep , by defendind your class .
    You did what other thiefs did before you , and then they bail out .
    You are in the same road , and you simply are waiting for newer games, with better combat than Archage

    Until then , we have some conversations :P

    Edit: because you keep tying
    mesmer using miss direction = stealth
    S/d thief = uses evades
    thief didnt have a group utility , like Mass Teleportation to force a 4v5 in mid
    day and night

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Let me , make it simple
    You are a casual , that simply promotes powercreep , by defendind your class .
    You did what other thiefs did before you , and then they bail out .
    You are in the same road , and you simply are waiting for newer games, with better combat than Archage

    Until then , we have some conversations :P

    Trust me all u can to is make thing simple lol. yeah ur right I am a casual, been casual for 5 yrs in gw2 now cuz I have a life. U want a apology for that lol, ur views more important cuz u life the game chief? ? I dont promote power creep at all I just stand up to players who promote bias garbage nerfs outa ignorance such as urself :)

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Let me , make it simple
    You are a casual , that simply promotes powercreep , by defendind your class .
    You did what other thiefs did before you , and then they bail out .
    You are in the same road , and you simply are waiting for newer games, with better combat than Archage

    Until then , we have some conversations :P

    Trust me all u can to is make thing simple lol. yeah ur right I am a casual, been casual for 5 yrs in gw2 now cuz I have a life. U want a apology for that lol, ur views more important cuz u life the game chief? ? I dont promote power creep at all I just stand up to players who promote bias garbage nerfs outa ignorance such as urself :)

    promote bias garbage ignorance , it does include you :p
    saying that thief is underpowered and didnt have precence in the top pvp
    Spouting left and right ''condition theif , stuff/stuff , snipers specs i beat them with myy d/p , they dont need nerf , just l2p''
    and then you simply made posts over posts saying that the balane is garbage and then went to archage :P

    thats an oathbreaker

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Let me , make it simple
    You are a casual , that simply promotes powercreep , by defendind your class .
    You did what other thiefs did before you , and then they bail out .
    You are in the same road , and you simply are waiting for newer games, with better combat than Archage

    Until then , we have some conversations :P

    Trust me all u can to is make thing simple lol. yeah ur right I am a casual, been casual for 5 yrs in gw2 now cuz I have a life. U want a apology for that lol, ur views more important cuz u life the game chief? ? I dont promote power creep at all I just stand up to players who promote bias garbage nerfs outa ignorance such as urself :)

    promote bias garbage ignorance , it does include you :p
    saying that thief is underpowered and didnt have precence in the top pvp
    Spouting left and right ''condition theif , stuff/stuff , snipers specs i beat them with myy d/p , they dont need nerf , just l2p''
    and then you simply made posts over posts saying that the balane is garbage and then went to archage :P

    thats an oathbreaker

    U sure are caught up on archage for some reason lol u do kno people play more than one vid, u dont play other vids than gw2? Gw2 pvp balance most certainly is garbage so? That means I cant play a few matches they the week lol. Make no sense man

  • Flandre.2870Flandre.2870 Member ✭✭✭

    Delete shadow portal, revert mesmer portal changes

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Flandre.2870 said:
    Delete shadow portal, revert mesmer portal changes

    +1

    Portals belong to the Mesmer Profession Period!

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Let me , make it simple
    You are a casual , that simply promotes powercreep , by defendind your class .
    You did what other thiefs did before you , and then they bail out .
    You are in the same road , and you simply are waiting for newer games, with better combat than Archage

    Until then , we have some conversations :P

    Trust me all u can to is make thing simple lol. yeah ur right I am a casual, been casual for 5 yrs in gw2 now cuz I have a life. U want a apology for that lol, ur views more important cuz u life the game chief? ? I dont promote power creep at all I just stand up to players who promote bias garbage nerfs outa ignorance such as urself :)

    promote bias garbage ignorance , it does include you :p
    saying that thief is underpowered and didnt have precence in the top pvp
    Spouting left and right ''condition theif , stuff/stuff , snipers specs i beat them with myy d/p , they dont need nerf , just l2p''
    and then you simply made posts over posts saying that the balane is garbage and then went to archage :P

    thats an oathbreaker

    U sure are caught up on archage for some reason lol u do kno people play more than one vid, u dont play other vids than gw2? Gw2 pvp balance most certainly is garbage so? That means I cant play a few matches they the week lol. Make no sense man

    Yeah i play other games , mainly PS1 emulators
    But i dont go from balance is garbage
    to > inv ppl to join other games because balance suck
    to > and then move back to GW2 , saying that i know many ppl that came back because new pvp devs = new hope
    to> going from thread to thread , saying that damage is a staple of rogue archetype , then in an other threads saying the same about evasion ....an other for mobility...an other for stealth.... an other about l2p...
    to > then telling others that balance is garbage , as a response when pressured

    I simply hop on and off and i dont mess with the enjoyment of future balance
    Something you better do it too

    That why we must have these constantly conversations :P
    Until you understand it :P
    Immagine it like tango :P

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Delete mesmer portal and leave shadow portal with a lower cooldown and higher player cap like mesmers.mesmers don't need portals :)

  • xp eke xp.6724xp eke xp.6724 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2019

    can someone take all points and list them up? it helps also to see the most agrees/ disagrees.

    On my side:

    • Every part needs a counter part (block vs unblock, condi vs cleanse, stealth vs destealth, dmg vs reduktion, boons vs removal and more)
    • Every part needs a good amount of counter parts (if you can perma stealth and only a few classes could destealth you but need other tools also, stealth gets unbalanced!)
    • you should never be able to avoid a significant part of dmg by one/all sorce (eg. invulnerability, evades, resistance reduce a dmg source by 100%!), cause you need a minimal inpact (we allready have some traits and boons that do better like protection)
    • non meta builds, should also be not too far away from metas (btw i know that your allready working on it and i think you do well!)

    now to the maps and team size:
    i think you dont really need new maps, but maybe more thinking over the basic 5v5 teammatches!

    why?

    • if ranked is districted to 1-2 players at a 5team match, they will mostly have hard times to find teams, for the next lvl (tournaments!). means a 6v6 or something like that map can help out.
    • If we play ranked atm, we have a big issue like on most other games: players are rated at a gamble mode (and most don´t now), instead of rating them the rolle they play. btw. having less then 50% influence on a rated game causes imo the biggest part of frustration and toxity.
    • gw2 has also potential to be a brawl game, but atm no rating or just a few tournaments for that
    • changing the maps for a smaller(2v2, 4v4) amount of players will grow the influence of a player at a match
    • changing the map for bigger (6v6, 8v8) amount of players, will need new mechanics to have more rolles that impacts different lines (like on lol, the jungle for a 5v5 or the buffs/ units/ defences on stronghold)

    what else?

    • we need to support ts/ discord. If players talk to others they mostly understand more actions of others => less flaming, toxity
    • everyone need a trainingsarea for themself, esp for pvp.
    • connect pvp with activities! they are also a sort of competition and they are varieties
    • dont call ranked, ranked as long it is mostly a gamble mode
    • you could work on a beginner tutorial, that also explains that we players have different goals for the same game mode
    • optimise the tournament times and add an option to make them more present (if wanted^^)

    btw i didnt bring exact suggestions, cause imo you allready have a idea how to implement them.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭

    shave some AoE field of FB to one time area effect. this graphics destroy our eyes and the skills are over tuned

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

    God's love thank you! , I have to wait for a honest thief player to come out and state the issues at hand. I have already stated that CC lock must go from this game and particularly I am looking at Headshot and Pistolwhipe, both those skills allow the thief player to assume two very frustrating playstyles to deal with.

    1) Headshot : the thief just prevents you from doing any action by repeatedly spamming https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot at 4 ini for 15 ini, they can prevent you from using any skill meanwhile they pressure you with their AA spam , it's very hard to outplay a thief playing this way if you haven't got instant cast heals, instant stealth (like mesmers and engis) or passive heal ( like wars and eles )

    2)PistolWhip : Again a spammable stun with baked in evade, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip the thief just teleport in and can't be hit while cleaving for great amounts of dmg

    What instant stealth do engi's have? Mine gets blocked if I'm in a dome cause my potion has to land last I checked.... With the gank wars that exist today I'm often dead before the invis takes effect.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:
    GET RANGER GREATSWORD (auto attack) EVADE BACK! class is close to being dead for a reason

    Nah, you'll have to find something else to abuse :(

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