Can we have Shade skills around the scourge back to old setting in PvE?

totaloverride.3240 · October 24, 2019

Scourge: Shade skills no longer affect the area around the scourge while they have a shade present in the world.

Why did you do that for PvE?!This is not nerf, scoruge is crippled...

Can we, please, get old setting, Shade skills around the scourge, back for PvE?

Ashantara.8731 · October 24, 2019

I'd like it back in WvW as well. ;) Perhaps the new Systems Team will take care of it. B)

Trise.2865 · October 24, 2019

Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

ZDragon.3046 · October 24, 2019

Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.gets downeduses vapor form to move to allies on safe spotGets transfusion teleported to scourge's shade instead of the scourge himself in not safe spotdies

Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Ashantara.8731 · October 24, 2019

@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

That's is true for PvE, but WvW is much more dynamic. No necro "face tanks" on purpose there, it just happens during battles.

I didn't mind the change in PvE, to be honest.

Lexi.1398 · October 24, 2019

TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.

Voltekka.2375 · October 24, 2019

Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

Funky.4861 · October 24, 2019

A question on the transfusion trait: would a downed player get ported to the nearest shade to them, or the nearest shade to the scourge? The only way to get to the scourge themselves is if there are no shades up, which is obviously never going to happen in an actual raid.

totaloverride.3240 · October 24, 2019

@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD

@"Lexi.1398" said:TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
@Voltekka.2375 said:Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condikinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?

now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvWthe moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,i miss scaring ads in boss fights

Voltekka.2375 · October 24, 2019

@totaloverride.3240 said:
@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD

@"Lexi.1398" said:TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
@Voltekka.2375 said:Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condikinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?

now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvWthe moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,i miss scaring ads in boss fights

Scourges were buffed in wvw. Theyre as dominating as ever, shades hitting 10 people now at range makes a bomb twice as potent. Dunno why you would say that "not many scourges in wvw". You can adjust your playstyle

Dreamreaver.4908 · October 24, 2019

@Funky.4861 said:A question on the transfusion trait: would a downed player get ported to the nearest shade to them, or the nearest shade to the scourge? The only way to get to the scourge themselves is if there are no shades up, which is obviously never going to happen in an actual raid.

Transfusion always teleports downed players to the necromancer using it. Shades have nothing to do with this trait. Additionally, the pulsing heals follow the necromancer. Only the Fear burst comes from the shade, which is the skill functionality used to trigger the trait and not the trait itself.

Stand The Wall.6987 · October 25, 2019

should just remove shade range capability at this point. rename it to spectre.

SinisterSlay.6973 · October 25, 2019

I went back to reaper because of this change.

Avernus.6817 · October 25, 2019

@Trise.2865 said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

Play as intended, the class was built with shade skills supposed to be used at your location and the shades, its literally in the description given by the elite spec mentor in domain of vabi.

You talk like having the shades skills on both the shades and yourself made the gameplay braindead or something, most of the time it was used as a minor defensive aid when getting overrun and such.With these changes, if you're ranged and throw a shade at ranged, you lose defense, but if you play in melee you get all the offensive capabilities and all the defense, if you're power scourge (which most sand savant users are) you don't even have to worry about shades that much as you only drop 1 large range shade that gives you all the minor traits without effort.

Sand savant is large radius oppressive power, its the braindead spec you hate, not condi scourge, condi scourge does not use savant, they are the ones that have to carefully place small range shades and manage them, as they need 2 up at all times to make use of the minor traits, they dont have the healing power or the barrier spam (it was nerfed so you have to take healing power, cond iscourge does not use heal power)

This is a massive nerf to scourges who dont use the braindead sand savant, they buffed the braindead specThey nerfed the functionality of the scourge shades as a tradeoff for this and because ANET dont like ranged classes, they think that people in melee who are in range of all the buffs/heals/aegis spams should have higher damage than those at range because 'being in melee is more dangerous' LOLOLOLOL

They need to revert the changes entirely, when they figure out how to balance boon spam/boon corrupts the scourge will be balanced mostly. Maybe if they removed epidemic from the game scourges could get more dps int otheir kit and maybe lowering some boon rip could mean that the scourge punishments skills could be actually damage deals instead of only does acceptable damage if the target has boons. Looking at you serpent siphon

totaloverride.3240 · October 25, 2019

@SinisterSlay.6973 said:I went back to reaper because of this change.

exactly, but must change stats on asc gear

ZDragon.3046 · October 25, 2019

@totaloverride.3240 said:
@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD

@"Lexi.1398" said:TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
@Voltekka.2375 said:Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condikinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?

now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvWthe moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,i miss scaring ads in boss fights

Thats not correct scourge was adjusted in wvw to try and make them more risky when using their shades but at the same time their shades got considerably more effective which is not a good thing overall for larger zerg fights. Effectively shades got a hard buff in wvw because not having the shade skills go off on you at the same time in wvw does not matter. You are not fighting on the front line so you dont need the effects on you.

At the same time because the changes were tied to pve and pvp scourge changed in both modesIn pvp Scourge is now too risky to use and the reward is not high enough for the literally lack of soft and hard defense they have.They now have no self protection from shade effects if they have a shade active and become sitting ducks. Or must thrown themselves into the middle of a fight with no defenses and not use shades to keep personal effects. Overall the playstyle is too unbalanced and the trade off is now too heavily balanced in the wrong direction

In pve scourge still works its just a bit more clunky as now effects only trigger on the shades as in my example above transfusion for heal scourge will currently teleport you to the shade instead of scourge trying to rez you should you go down. And where is the shade most often located? Its on the boss or some other spot that you probably dont want to be should you go down.

Overall scourge needs a total rework of its design at some point in the future. Less boon corruption more effectiveness in some other form thats not just aoe zone control.With the split of pve and pvp now going into effect they can bring the shades back to the scourge in pve and maybe pvp only for a short time as a short term solution.

In wvw they need to look at maybe reducing the max range that a shade can be placed. IF you want to defend the front line with your shades then it should-require some risk to place it in the first place.

noiwk.2760 · October 25, 2019

i think Scourge is awful to play in PVE now. they wanted to nerf it in wvw and pvp. but they nerfed it in PVE instead.this is an awful and unwelcvome change especially when Scourge wasnt even a meta or anything close to it in both raids or fractals and never needed a pve nerf a buff if anything.. Scourge Both as support and as DPS suffer alot from this change and isnt really vailble option .. sure it can still be played but the clunky play and all just not worth it when other classes that are alot more simple to play tankier and what not.. just perform better in any case.. Scourge condition is supposed to be a ranged dps and now played melee often they dont even bother to use the shade with reduce their already meh dwamage by alot.
and as support you cant protect your self and allies at same time anymore.. and you cover much smaller era. Scourge is already meh dps and a second class Support that is far behind FB/Druid and only used as second support nerfing it even further like the last patch done.. just make it not worth playing class.
Scourge need a massive buff to keep this change and make it warding buffs both to his support kit and his dps kit / QoL kit

Voltekka.2375 · October 25, 2019

@ZDragon.3046 said:
@totaloverride.3240 said:
@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD

@"Lexi.1398" said:TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
@Voltekka.2375 said:Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condikinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?

now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvWthe moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,i miss scaring ads in boss fights

Thats not correct scourge was adjusted in wvw to try and make them more risky when using their shades but at the same time their shades got considerably more effective which is not a good thing overall for larger zerg fights. Effectively shades got a hard buff in wvw because not having the shade skills go off on you at the same time in wvw does not matter. You are not fighting on the front line so you dont need the effects on you.

At the same time because the changes were tied to pve and pvp scourge changed in both modesIn pvp Scourge is now too risky to use and the reward is not high enough for the literally lack of soft and hard defense they have.They now have no self protection from shade effects if they have a shade active and become sitting ducks. Or must thrown themselves into the middle of a fight with no defenses and not use shades to keep personal effects. Overall the playstyle is too unbalanced and the trade off is now too heavily balanced in the wrong direction

In pve scourge still works its just a bit more clunky as now effects only trigger on the shades as in my example above transfusion for heal scourge will currently teleport you to the shade instead of scourge trying to rez you should you go down. And where is the shade most often located? Its on the boss or some other spot that you probably dont want to be should you go down.

Overall scourge needs a total rework of its design at some point in the future. Less boon corruption more effectiveness in some other form thats not just aoe zone control.With the split of pve and pvp now going into effect they can bring the shades back to the scourge in pve and maybe pvp only for a short time as a short term solution.

In wvw they need to look at maybe reducing the max range that a shade can be placed. IF you want to defend the front line with your shades then it should-require some risk to place it in the first place.

Scourge boon corruption is a non issue in pve. Powerscourge is a non issue in pve.If you want to talk about wvw, sure. Nerf corrupts (which were already nerfed both via scepter 3 nerf and unending corruption was removed/changed to harbringer shroud, something noone uses). Less boonremoval means more boonspam. We already have enough boonspam...

Turkeyspit.3965 · October 25, 2019

@Trise.2865 said:Or you could play it as intended

You have a source to cite that suggests the mechanics of Scourge have been bugged since PoF launch? I must have missed it.Because if you don't, by definition, the class has been working as originally intended up until the recent patch.

Mini Crinny.6190 · October 25, 2019

@totaloverride.3240 said:
@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD

@"Lexi.1398" said:TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
@Voltekka.2375 said:Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condikinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?

now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvWthe moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,i miss scaring ads in boss fights

Scourge got buffed, but you have to use your head a little now on when to place shades and when not too, maybe that is why you see less scourges in groups now xD

To answer the OP, I believe Anet have said that only numbers will be split and not the mechanics, so it's either a revert to the old mechanic or a buff to scourge F skills in pve

ZDragon.3046 · October 25, 2019

@Voltekka.2375 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@totaloverride.3240 said:
@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD

@"Lexi.1398" said:TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
@Voltekka.2375 said:Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condikinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?

now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvWthe moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,i miss scaring ads in boss fights

Thats not correct scourge was adjusted in wvw to try and make them more risky when using their shades but at the same time their shades got considerably more effective which is not a good thing overall for larger zerg fights. Effectively shades got a hard buff in wvw because not having the shade skills go off on you at the same time in wvw does not matter. You are not fighting on the front line so you dont need the effects on you.

At the same time because the changes were tied to pve and pvp scourge changed in both modesIn pvp Scourge is now too risky to use and the reward is not high enough for the literally lack of soft and hard defense they have.They now have no self protection from shade effects if they have a shade active and become sitting ducks. Or must thrown themselves into the middle of a fight with no defenses and not use shades to keep personal effects. Overall the playstyle is too unbalanced and the trade off is now too heavily balanced in the wrong direction

In pve scourge still works its just a bit more clunky as now effects only trigger on the shades as in my example above transfusion for heal scourge will currently teleport you to the shade instead of scourge trying to rez you should you go down. And where is the shade most often located? Its on the boss or some other spot that you probably dont want to be should you go down.

Overall scourge needs a total rework of its design at some point in the future. Less boon corruption more effectiveness in some other form thats not just aoe zone control.With the split of pve and pvp now going into effect they can bring the shades back to the scourge in pve and maybe pvp only for a short time as a short term solution.

In wvw they need to look at maybe reducing the max range that a shade can be placed. IF you want to defend the front line with your shades then it should-require some risk to place it in the first place.

Scourge boon corruption is a non issue in pve. Powerscourge is a non issue in pve.Actually boon corrupts in general are a problem in pve just not in the way of how most people think. They are useless in 90% of pve with the exception being some fractals when a instability is applied and some raids and a few bosses in the PoF areas that said even those things dont boon spam enough to warrant the gross amount of boon corrupt built into necormancer over the years. In pve the overwhelming amount of boon corrupt built into skill design lowers the potential qualities that many skills could have in terms of things like condition application, damage, cooldown, barrier application, and utility.

IF you think boon corruption is a non issue in pve then you got it all wrong.

If you want to talk about wvw, sure. Nerf corrupts (which were already nerfed both via scepter 3 nerf and unending corruption was removed/changed to harbringer shroud, something noone uses). Less boonremoval means more boonspam. We already have enough boonspam...

Clearly you have not seen the post from the dev talking about how from going forward pve balance and design will no longer be tied to pvp and wvw at all and how they pretty much plan to nerf everything across the board in pvp and wvw.Which includes boons. As he put the general direction its down and that they are primarily looking at nerfs in the future patches. If its good or meta right now its considered to be too strong or stronger than they want it to be.

It was also mentioned that as boon generation / spam is droped there will be a lesser need for boon corrupts which is a good thing as i think the key feature of boon corruption that was suppose to be a unique tool of necromancer has just become a gatekeeping balance tool for the other 8 professions which is just disgusting in general

ZDragon.3046 · October 25, 2019

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:
@totaloverride.3240 said:
@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.

tried that, but 20sec is sooo long when "place shade" is on CD

@"Lexi.1398" said:TBH all they need is a "remove shade/s" button and done.
@Voltekka.2375 said:Place shade on yourself. 10 targets. Youre welcome.

scourge become close combat class instead of ranged condikinda was able to manage huge crowds in PvE, (scare/fear shade was like a wall)

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its more than likely going to happen as a short term fixI dont really like scourge as it is right now but i support the change of reverting this back in pve considering it killed me in raids last week.Yea its not fun with how clunky it is right now.

Scourge was heavely nerfed, imo...proof is that there is not so many Scourges in WvW for a long time.remember Scourge zergs fights in WvW in the begining?

now i can't use shade to help friend in tough situation PvE or WvWthe moment you put shade away from you, you become so fragile,i miss scaring ads in boss fights

Scourge got buffed, but you have to use your head a little now on when to place shades and when not too, maybe that is why you see less scourges in groups now xDOnly in wvwIn pvp this was a major nerf in terms of risk for reward the risk is why to high and the reward is not justified. Bonus targets dont mean much in spvp where matches are 5v5 or less.In pve its just clunky still doable but clunky.

To answer the OP, I believe Anet have said that only numbers will be split and not the mechanics, so it's either a revert to the old mechanic or a buff to scourge F skills in pve

Pretty sure they said that on case by case situations mechanical splits will be done where necessary Im pretty sure scourge in its current form qualifies worthy of that if they dont plan to rework the elite spec or shades as a whole.

Voltekka.2375 · October 25, 2019

@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Voltekka.2375 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@totaloverride.3240 said:
@"Trise.2865" said:Or you could play it as intended and put actual thought into where to place a Shade and how to move, instead of dumping them wherever and face-tanking everything.