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Mounts unhealthy for core player experience ?

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  • @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.

    Free to play TRIAL (best repeat this as often as needed until it sinks in: trial trial trial) players have the ability to experience the game as it was as vanilla version. Expansions obviously enhance the game experience. By your definition every single expansion for other MMOs is pay to win. The only difference is in other MMOs you get an increased level cap and have to regear. Here since the level cap stays the same and you can even get the same gear in the core game (quality wise, some stat combinations are locked to expansions) suddenly an expansion is pay to win. Hilarious.

    The entitlement in some people is strong, very strong.

    Well, maybe you are new in this game so you discovered the core game as a f2p game. But, if you don't know, in the beginning the core game was not f2p. It was a buy to play. And a major selling point was that no annoying things from other games will pollute it - one of that "bad" things was the "pay to win" aspect.
    Now, if what you say is true, I mean: "Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.", and taking into account the fact that lot of players bought the core game (more than 11 millions according to ANet) - that means for them the core is buy to play- it seems that ANet gave them all some mounts. Or is not so? HM?

    It seems your statement is a little bit inaccurate. The correct statement may be: "Mounts are not pay to win. They belong to a part of the game which is buy to play". Well, this is what OP said - the mounts have no place in Tyria. They belong to another part of the game.

    And about your free to play TRIAL obsession: I have nothing against the mounts in the expansion - this is what you bought. But in Tyria ... this damages the game experience for all the players who bought the vanilla GW2.

    @AdFinitum.1976 said:

    My concern is not the disadvantages F2P have ( I played with that for quiet a while and it was enjoyable - which is not neccessarily the case anymore ) - my concern is that they won't join our precious world but instead abandon it.

    The game won't sell if F2P testers abandon it. And mounts passing by would have tipped me off during my testing phase if I hadn't started playing way before.

    Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.
    But it seems that the others are not. They bought the expansion to have an advantage over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

    This.
    Again. Everyone assumes anyone playing core is on free account. Personally, if I could, I would go back to core only. I debated looking for an old physical copy of gw2 for sale.

  • Zedek.8932Zedek.8932 Member ✭✭✭

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @ThePlayMaker.1058 said:
    Core player experience? You mean F2P players, aka free demo players? Listen, a business can't survive on just love and happiness from its playerbase, it needs money to survive. In a game where you pay no subscription fee, the least you can do is pull out $30 for an expac every 2 years. It's absolutely nothing. People spend more than that on parties, dinners, etc each month/week! $30 across two years = $0.04 a day. The only way Anet survives as a company is with expac sales and gem purchases from its large playerbase.

    What about people who litetally only bought the core game. They are not f2p.

    Excelsior.
    They are pay2play actually, a different thing. Also, since you get the core game with HoT, basically a great bundle deal, which is available since 2 years, I think they are paid off already with a lot of gametime and should consider either leaving or spending a few bucks on it. If they bought the actual core game, they have access to the game for over 2.5years now, up to 5 years (!). Do you think players being here for 2.5 - 5 years stay in the freebie zone that long if they find the time and money worthwile spend?

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    I'm going to assume you're a f2p player. Correct me if i'm wrong, this is just an assumption based on your reactions.

    Unless they changed something, F2P players have the forums in read-only mode. I could be mistaken and this policy may have changed since the F2P announcement at Pax South (HOT announcement)

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    Theres no race to complete maps in Tyria, so theres no sense in talking about disvantage here.

    I wrote a long time ago that the feeling that a novice player has in GW2 is that the game is about maps. The way the UI is presented full of views, POIs and animations when you get anywhere passes the impression of the game is a kind of Zelda or Metroid that you progress as you expand the maps.

    Apparently Anet rediscovered its strength.

    It seems that Anet rediscovered its strength and decided to bring this theme back with the PoF.

    Basically if the newbie is trying to complete everything quickly, he will be tempted to buy expansion to buy mounts.

    However, anyone who is at this stage of exploring maps hardly cares about competition and as the game does not force you to schedule or time, you just stipulate how many maps you want to complete per day.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • @Zedek.8932 said:

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @ThePlayMaker.1058 said:
    Core player experience? You mean F2P players, aka free demo players? Listen, a business can't survive on just love and happiness from its playerbase, it needs money to survive. In a game where you pay no subscription fee, the least you can do is pull out $30 for an expac every 2 years. It's absolutely nothing. People spend more than that on parties, dinners, etc each month/week! $30 across two years = $0.04 a day. The only way Anet survives as a company is with expac sales and gem purchases from its large playerbase.

    What about people who litetally only bought the core game. They are not f2p.

    Excelsior.
    They are pay2play actually, a different thing. Also, since you get the core game with HoT, basically a great bundle deal, which is available since 2 years, I think they are paid off already with a lot of gametime and should consider either leaving or spending a few bucks on it. If they bought the actual core game, they have access to the game for over 2.5years now, up to 5 years (!). Do you think players being here for 2.5 - 5 years stay in the freebie zone that long if they find the time and money worthwile spend?

    If I knew then what I know now, yes. Absolutely I would stay in core.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the core experience should have 1 mount for everyone, a dolyak or something like that.

    It would be good to let players experience mounts, and then they would buy PoF to get better ones.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.

    Free to play TRIAL (best repeat this as often as needed until it sinks in: trial trial trial) players have the ability to experience the game as it was as vanilla version. Expansions obviously enhance the game experience. By your definition every single expansion for other MMOs is pay to win. The only difference is in other MMOs you get an increased level cap and have to regear. Here since the level cap stays the same and you can even get the same gear in the core game (quality wise, some stat combinations are locked to expansions) suddenly an expansion is pay to win. Hilarious.

    The entitlement in some people is strong, very strong.

    Well, maybe you are new in this game so you discovered the core game as a f2p game. But, if you don't know, in the beginning the core game was not f2p. It was a buy to play. And a major selling point was that no annoying things from other games will pollute it - one of that "bad" things was the "pay to win" aspect.
    Now, if what you say is true, I mean: "Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.", and taking into account the fact that lot of players bought the core game (more than 11 millions according to ANet) - that means for them the core is buy to play- it seems that ANet gave them all some mounts. Or is not so? HM?

    It seems your statement is a little bit inaccurate. The correct statement may be: "Mounts are not pay to win. They belong to a part of the game which is buy to play". Well, this is what OP said - the mounts have no place in Tyria. They belong to another part of the game.

    And about your free to play TRIAL obsession: I have nothing against the mounts in the expansion - this is what you bought. But in Tyria ... this damages the game experience for all the players who bought the vanilla GW2.

    @AdFinitum.1976 said:

    My concern is not the disadvantages F2P have ( I played with that for quiet a while and it was enjoyable - which is not neccessarily the case anymore ) - my concern is that they won't join our precious world but instead abandon it.

    The game won't sell if F2P testers abandon it. And mounts passing by would have tipped me off during my testing phase if I hadn't started playing way before.

    Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.
    But it seems that the others are not. They bought the expansion to have an advantage over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

    This.
    Again. Everyone assumes anyone playing core is on free account. Personally, if I could, I would go back to core only. I debated looking for an old physical copy of gw2 for sale.

    As I had mentioned before. Yes it is unfortunate that players who bought the game over 5 years ago are not able to use mounts. Then again, that's not something you paid for back then. You've gotten your moneys worth many times over.

    If you can't afford to invest the tiny amount of money GW2 requires, you might want to move away from MMOs entirely.

  • CedarDog.9723CedarDog.9723 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    I doubt that the side saying it's unfair to f2p players that they don't get gliders and/or mounts is going to win. ANet keeps metrics on all kinds of things, and I'm damned sure they keep statistics on the conversion rate of f2p players to paying customers of the expacs. They made the decision most likely because the benefits of showing f2p players "cool" gliders and mounts results in more f2p players buying their product outweighs the number of f2p players who quit. The ones who don't buy the expac after seeing these new incentives most likely wouldn't buy the game anyways.

    A solution to the issue however if it IS such a big problem would be to devote a few server instances per core Tyria map to f2p accounts and shunt all the f2p players into those maps, and direct all the other players into normal maps with gliders and mount enabled. There, everyone arguing can now be happy. Let the complaints about not forcing all players to be in the same maps begin.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.

    Free to play TRIAL (best repeat this as often as needed until it sinks in: trial trial trial) players have the ability to experience the game as it was as vanilla version. Expansions obviously enhance the game experience. By your definition every single expansion for other MMOs is pay to win. The only difference is in other MMOs you get an increased level cap and have to regear. Here since the level cap stays the same and you can even get the same gear in the core game (quality wise, some stat combinations are locked to expansions) suddenly an expansion is pay to win. Hilarious.

    The entitlement in some people is strong, very strong.

    Well, maybe you are new in this game so you discovered the core game as a f2p game. But, if you don't know, in the beginning the core game was not f2p. It was a buy to play. And a major selling point was that no annoying things from other games will pollute it - one of that "bad" things was the "pay to win" aspect.
    Now, if what you say is true, I mean: "Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.", and taking into account the fact that lot of players bought the core game (more than 11 millions according to ANet) - that means for them the core is buy to play- it seems that ANet gave them all some mounts. Or is not so? HM?

    It seems your statement is a little bit inaccurate. The correct statement may be: "Mounts are not pay to win. They belong to a part of the game which is buy to play". Well, this is what OP said - the mounts have no place in Tyria. They belong to another part of the game.

    And about your free to play TRIAL obsession: I have nothing against the mounts in the expansion - this is what you bought. But in Tyria ... this damages the game experience for all the players who bought the vanilla GW2.

    @AdFinitum.1976 said:

    My concern is not the disadvantages F2P have ( I played with that for quiet a while and it was enjoyable - which is not neccessarily the case anymore ) - my concern is that they won't join our precious world but instead abandon it.

    The game won't sell if F2P testers abandon it. And mounts passing by would have tipped me off during my testing phase if I hadn't started playing way before.

    Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.
    But it seems that the others are not. They bought the expansion to have an advantage over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

    This.
    Again. Everyone assumes anyone playing core is on free account. Personally, if I could, I would go back to core only. I debated looking for an old physical copy of gw2 for sale.

    As I had mentioned before. Yes it is unfortunate that players who bought the game over 5 years ago are not able to use mounts. Then again, that's not something you paid for back then. You've gotten your moneys worth many times over.

    If you can't afford to invest the tiny amount of money GW2 requires, you might want to move away from MMOs entirely.

    I never said I disagree with you.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.

    Free to play TRIAL (best repeat this as often as needed until it sinks in: trial trial trial) players have the ability to experience the game as it was as vanilla version. Expansions obviously enhance the game experience. By your definition every single expansion for other MMOs is pay to win. The only difference is in other MMOs you get an increased level cap and have to regear. Here since the level cap stays the same and you can even get the same gear in the core game (quality wise, some stat combinations are locked to expansions) suddenly an expansion is pay to win. Hilarious.

    The entitlement in some people is strong, very strong.

    Well, maybe you are new in this game so you discovered the core game as a f2p game. But, if you don't know, in the beginning the core game was not f2p. It was a buy to play. And a major selling point was that no annoying things from other games will pollute it - one of that "bad" things was the "pay to win" aspect.
    Now, if what you say is true, I mean: "Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.", and taking into account the fact that lot of players bought the core game (more than 11 millions according to ANet) - that means for them the core is buy to play- it seems that ANet gave them all some mounts. Or is not so? HM?

    It seems your statement is a little bit inaccurate. The correct statement may be: "Mounts are not pay to win. They belong to a part of the game which is buy to play". Well, this is what OP said - the mounts have no place in Tyria. They belong to another part of the game.

    And about your free to play TRIAL obsession: I have nothing against the mounts in the expansion - this is what you bought. But in Tyria ... this damages the game experience for all the players who bought the vanilla GW2.

    @AdFinitum.1976 said:

    My concern is not the disadvantages F2P have ( I played with that for quiet a while and it was enjoyable - which is not neccessarily the case anymore ) - my concern is that they won't join our precious world but instead abandon it.

    The game won't sell if F2P testers abandon it. And mounts passing by would have tipped me off during my testing phase if I hadn't started playing way before.

    Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.
    But it seems that the others are not. They bought the expansion to have an advantage over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

    This.
    Again. Everyone assumes anyone playing core is on free account. Personally, if I could, I would go back to core only. I debated looking for an old physical copy of gw2 for sale.

    As I had mentioned before. Yes it is unfortunate that players who bought the game over 5 years ago are not able to use mounts. Then again, that's not something you paid for back then. You've gotten your moneys worth many times over.

    If you can't afford to invest the tiny amount of money GW2 requires, you might want to move away from MMOs entirely.

    I never said I disagree with you.

    My bad, guess I was a bit defensive there.

    Let's wait and see. I doubt any of these issues are on arenanets radar anyway.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThePlayMaker.1058 said:
    Core player experience? You mean F2P players, aka free demo players? Listen, a business can't survive on just love and happiness from its playerbase, it needs money to survive. In a game where you pay no subscription fee, the least you can do is pull out $30 for an expac every 2 years. It's absolutely nothing. People spend more than that on parties, dinners, etc each month/week! $30 across two years = $0.04 a day. The only way Anet survives as a company is with expac sales and gem purchases from its large playerbase.

    No it doesn't mean F2p .. many players still only own the original core game... you know that they bought but not everyone has the luxory of being able to afford the expacs or they require parents to afford it for them... there are all kinds of reasons why some players are forced to stay disadvantaged by this.
    Yes F2p trial players have no argument in my opinion that's a choice thing but it could impact their decision to become B2P however I do not believe this is the target audience this thread is aiming at.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tasida.4085 said:
    If they leave then good riddance. The turnover rate for mmo's is always high...for every person who left another takes their place. And that newcomer may like the game enough to invest. No real loss if F2P leave.

    Interesting facts you put out there... you of course have proof to back that claim up or its just pie in the sky. If that was true MMO''s numers would never rise or fall... and let's be honest after month 1.. pretty much every MMO numbers slide and GW2 is no different... why do you think the F2P trials get implemented

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Tasida.4085Tasida.4085 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tasida.4085 said:
    If they leave then good riddance. The turnover rate for mmo's is always high...for every person who left another takes their place. And that newcomer may like the game enough to invest. No real loss if F2P leave.

    Interesting facts you put out there... you of course have proof to back that claim up or its just pie in the sky. If that was true MMO''s numers would never rise or fall... and let's be honest after month 1.. pretty much every MMO numbers slide and GW2 is no different... why do you think the F2P trials get implemented

    Actually play enough different mmo's through the years and you see exactly what I mentioned. Games stay alive because of turnover rates lol. I've quit this game numerous times since 2012 and seems to be thriving quite well each time I come back. Same for many of the others I play between breaks (all mmos). Of course newer, younger players won't see the truth of turnover rates. Some things just take time to learn like wisdom ;) No one cares who quits and who doesn't. So F2P want to quit then again good riddance. They want the toys they need to buy the xpacs etc. And those who are advocates for F2P getting free stuff, why not buy THEM the game/xpac if you're so interested? Bet there won't be any advocates then lol

    (NOBL) rocking GW's since 2005, still rocking Sorrow's Furnace :P

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All ant had to do was ensure that mounts were properly scaled in accordance with core maps but here I think it was rushed through to appease the crowd .
    I would be highly suprised if they just didn't see the impact it could have.
    The core game is the starting point and should be held sacred what comes after is how they game experience expands. If they want it to bleed back into the core then either the core game should now have some love or better controls and managemental of what is essentially a gigantic power creep patched in.
    On a positive ... the mounts are for me some of the best I've seen in an mmo and there animations are top draw.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    I'm going to assume you're a f2p player. Correct me if i'm wrong, this is just an assumption based on your reactions.

    Unless they changed something, F2P players have the forums in read-only mode. I could be mistaken and this policy may have changed since the F2P announcement at Pax South (HOT announcement)

    I see, i didn't know that. Well, based on what you said then, everyone here who's complaining about pay2win bought the game when it launched. Just like everyone else who also bought the expansions. So why are people who play the game for free or bought only the core game entitled to the same things that people who also bought expansions (things that expand on the core content) have? I payed about 50€ for the game at launch, and another 50€ for both expansions. I still have the box. So i payed 100€ for Guild Wars 2 so far. And i have access to more stuff than the people who paid nothing for the game. SHOCKER!

    I recently started playing again, and when i saw that i like the game again, that i'm having fun, i decided to buy HoT and PoF expansions. And i did. I didn't whine on the forums that i'm entitled to expansion packs content because i bought the game when it came out. I already had my benefits over the f2p players with the bought core game, expansions are just that, expansions.

    And honestly, in the time since i went back to the game, til i bought the expansions, i never felt like it was necesarry for me to buy expansions in order to enjoy the game. I started doing fractals with core mesmer and lo and behold, i found parties, no one kicked me out because chrono was meta, and i still had fun with people.

    I bought the expansions because i wanted to experience that content, not because i needed to catch up with someone who has an advantage over me. No one has an advantage with the expansions.

    The most interesting thing i never see anyone complain about is elite specializations. Core players can't be elite specs, yet no one complains that they're entitled to elite specs in the game cause elite specs have an advantage over core professions. But elites aren't as visible as mounts, so no one really cares, but when they see a raptor jumping around in core tyria it's suddenly TRIGGERED!!!!!1!!!1!!!! SHINY!!!!1!!11 I'M ENTITLED TO IT!!!!1!!11 threads all over the forums.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @Tasida.4085 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tasida.4085 said:
    If they leave then good riddance. The turnover rate for mmo's is always high...for every person who left another takes their place. And that newcomer may like the game enough to invest. No real loss if F2P leave.

    Interesting facts you put out there... you of course have proof to back that claim up or its just pie in the sky. If that was true MMO''s numers would never rise or fall... and let's be honest after month 1.. pretty much every MMO numbers slide and GW2 is no different... why do you think the F2P trials get implemented

    Actually play enough different mmo's through the years and you see exactly what I mentioned. Games stay alive because of turnover rates lol. I've quit this game numerous times since 2012 and seems to be thriving quite well each time I come back. Same for many of the others I play between breaks (all mmos). Of course newer, younger players won't see the truth of turnover rates. Some things just take time to learn like wisdom ;) No one cares who quits and who doesn't. So F2P want to quit then again good riddance. They want the toys they need to buy the xpacs etc. And those who are advocates for F2P getting free stuff, why not buy THEM the game/xpac if you're so interested? Bet there won't be any advocates then lol

    Pretty sure I've played more than enough MMO's over the last 15+ years to know why a F2P gamemode is installed.. its to try and band aid flagging numbers and while some do take up the cause and switch over.. I would hazard a guess that it doesn't come close to filling the holes left by frustrated, bored, restless or plain old burned out players.
    GW1 and similarly with GW2 ANET promoted a different way of affordable gaming in its B2P model, which for many years I held in very high regards as it was new, brave and showed a willingness to back the quality of their people and product and rightly so.
    GW2 encompassed all of the same things but no one can argue it lost its way big time a few years back and numbers were dropping due to many factors not all game related but global pressures play a large part in it.
    Why do you think megaserver was brought in.. it squeezed players off empty maps into a much busier one for all methodology.. great disguise but not a fix for ailing numbers but with F2P added a little later it definitely helps keep the game feeling busy. Add in the hard push on gemstore and I genuinely feel its turned a corner.
    That said it still doesn't mean that the game is growing or even filling all the holes left by leavers, but then again the beauty of the GW2 model is that you can drop off the radar for a whiles and then come back without too much of a detriment hopefully.

    As I said before though I don't feel that the F2P trial players have an argument in this thread, its the core game players that have supported the game that are left disadvantage to a degree with each xpac. Yes they have the option to also upgrade but for reasons specific to them they can't or haven't and this imo should of been realised and catered for when implementing things like mounts... I love them and will continue to use them, but that doesn't mean it sits well with all. Who knows though, maybe a gemstore purchase for a scaled down mount will pop up and in doing so appease everyone whilst dropping a few more coins in the games coffers to spend on another rainy day.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • This isnt' just an issue for F2P players, it's an issue for those who just haven't bought PoF yet.
    Of course I'll buy it once they fix the mac client, but my experience without having a mount is terrible,
    especially when I'm trying to follow a train or get to an event.

    Volhryol O Maelstom - Chronomancer
    Ghelviir O Maelstom - Druid
    TheSlothArmada - Berserker
    Builds: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jEaFeEWMhn3_c9Dt7DlOKWMHOVyRbWDSbEEgpSgrTMY/edit?usp=sharing

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheSlothArmada.6709 said:
    This isnt' just an issue for F2P players, it's an issue for those who just haven't bought PoF yet.
    Of course I'll buy it once they fix the mac client, but my experience without having a mount is terrible,
    especially when I'm trying to follow a train or get to an event.

    Following trains is hell!
    Champs are down to less then a 1/4 health by the time I catch up...if not dead already.

    They've made mounts necessary ....

  • Tasida.4085Tasida.4085 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tasida.4085 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tasida.4085 said:
    If they leave then good riddance. The turnover rate for mmo's is always high...for every person who left another takes their place. And that newcomer may like the game enough to invest. No real loss if F2P leave.

    Interesting facts you put out there... you of course have proof to back that claim up or its just pie in the sky. If that was true MMO''s numers would never rise or fall... and let's be honest after month 1.. pretty much every MMO numbers slide and GW2 is no different... why do you think the F2P trials get implemented

    Actually play enough different mmo's through the years and you see exactly what I mentioned. Games stay alive because of turnover rates lol. I've quit this game numerous times since 2012 and seems to be thriving quite well each time I come back. Same for many of the others I play between breaks (all mmos). Of course newer, younger players won't see the truth of turnover rates. Some things just take time to learn like wisdom ;) No one cares who quits and who doesn't. So F2P want to quit then again good riddance. They want the toys they need to buy the xpacs etc. And those who are advocates for F2P getting free stuff, why not buy THEM the game/xpac if you're so interested? Bet there won't be any advocates then lol

    Pretty sure I've played more than enough MMO's over the last 15+ years to know why a F2P gamemode is installed.. its to try and band aid flagging numbers and while some do take up the cause and switch over.. I would hazard a guess that it doesn't come close to filling the holes left by frustrated, bored, restless or plain old burned out players.
    GW1 and similarly with GW2 ANET promoted a different way of affordable gaming in its B2P model, which for many years I held in very high regards as it was new, brave and showed a willingness to back the quality of their people and product and rightly so.
    GW2 encompassed all of the same things but no one can argue it lost its way big time a few years back and numbers were dropping due to many factors not all game related but global pressures play a large part in it.
    Why do you think megaserver was brought in.. it squeezed players off empty maps into a much busier one for all methodology.. great disguise but not a fix for ailing numbers but with F2P added a little later it definitely helps keep the game feeling busy. Add in the hard push on gemstore and I genuinely feel its turned a corner.
    That said it still doesn't mean that the game is growing or even filling all the holes left by leavers, but then again the beauty of the GW2 model is that you can drop off the radar for a whiles and then come back without too much of a detriment hopefully.

    As I said before though I don't feel that the F2P trial players have an argument in this thread, its the core game players that have supported the game that are left disadvantage to a degree with each xpac. Yes they have the option to also upgrade but for reasons specific to them they can't or haven't and this imo should of been realised and catered for when implementing things like mounts... I love them and will continue to use them, but that doesn't mean it sits well with all. Who knows though, maybe a gemstore purchase for a scaled down mount will pop up and in doing so appease everyone whilst dropping a few more coins in the games coffers to spend on another rainy day.

    Wow why not go back and actually read what I said. Slowly this time. I was pointing out turnover rates are always high in mmo's. It wasn't about why F2P is brought in but why it doesn't matter if F2p players stay or go. LOL. And advocates for F2P getting mounts etc is daft. If you advocate them getting everything paying customers do then by all means buy each 1 the game n xpacs out of your own pocket (advocates). Then they can have all the toys as well :)

    (NOBL) rocking GW's since 2005, still rocking Sorrow's Furnace :P

  • The mobs were raptor wiped in the newbie areas many times in the first week. It looks to be much better now. I personally dismount when im in a low level area when theres many newbies around.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tasida.4085 said:
    Wow why not go back and actually read what I said. Slowly this time. I was pointing out turnover rates are always high in mmo's. It wasn't about why F2P is brought in but why it doesn't matter if F2p players stay or go. LOL. And advocates for F2P getting mounts etc is daft. If you advocate them getting everything paying customers do then by all means buy each 1 the game n xpacs out of your own pocket (advocates). Then they can have all the toys as well :)

    Compared to the rest of the scene options, GW2 is the most affordable, and even more so in terms of content.

    The guy who introduced me to GW2 only stayed one week, I stayed 3 years. He is the parasitic type that looks for games with difficult farms, so he sells gold, he saw that he had no place for him in GW2.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    @Coulter.2315 said:
    Mounts in Core Tyria are a massive nudge for F2P to buy PoF, this is a good thing. You cannot expect a company, which needs to employ people to make new content for you and me, to survive on the good feelings F2P players get.

    This is pretty much spot on.

    Objectively speaking, if I were a Free/core player again trudging around tyria, and I saw someone go whizzing by on a raptor or griffon, or fly through the air on bat wings,
    my first two questions would be "what is that?" and "how can I get one?"

    The people that buy the expansions each acquire a qol mechanic that also advertises the worth of at least the basic expansions to the players that may be considering buying them.

    I understand your concerns, OP. It is understandable that some players would like more free, but given the quality of GW2, there needs to be some motivation for at least some of us to support the game financially, even if it is depressing to free players to get outrun by expansion owners every so often in open world.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • There's no need to give core-players some whatever - mount.

    There's really no need for everybody to run around in "God-Mode"

    God-mode is boring, you'll learn soon enough.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tasida.4085 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tasida.4085 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Tasida.4085 said:

    Wow why not go back and actually read what I said. Slowly this time. I was pointing out turnover rates are always high in mmo's. It wasn't about why F2P is brought in but why it doesn't matter if F2p players stay or go. LOL. And advocates for F2P getting mounts etc is daft. If you advocate them getting everything paying customers do then by all means buy each 1 the game n xpacs out of your own pocket (advocates). Then they can have all the toys as well :)

    Maybe take some of that same advice.. I know what you said and in answer I just disagreed with you ideology.
    Perhaps you could show me where I advocate F2P having the goodies.. look up, read very, very slowly and you might see where on several occasions I state F2P have no argument in this thread because they are merely on a trial not a B2P player who purchased the core or HoT but are yet to purchase PoF.

    It 's ok though, apology accepted.. ..

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Makai.3429Makai.3429 Member ✭✭✭

    The engage skills need to be significantly turned down in pre-80 areas. I'm also in the camp where I stow my mount to give new players a chance for exp/loot.

    Off to play games that reward strategy and thought. Farewell, Watch the Floor Simulator.

  • @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I’m leaning towards nonexpansion/f2p being able to buy from the gemstore both a basic mount (PvE only) and basic glider where the basic mount is only at 33% speed and the basic glider has only half the glide distance of a regular first level glider. For one thing this will allow ANet to sell glider and backpack/glider combos in the gem store to more people. They can also sell the basic 33% speed boost mount in the gemstore to these people. If they want to upgrade to a regular glider or mount they’ll need to buy the expansion.

    Or they could create a couple of "borrow mount" sites, perhaps one per zone. You can grab a raptor in HoT, a skimmer in Maguuma, a springer for talk shows Shiverpeaks. You wouldn't be able to use the special action keys and you'd lose the mount upon interact/combat. It would give F2P, Core-only, and HoT-only a chance to try them out, without offering all the convenience that purchasing PoF would unlock.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I’m leaning towards nonexpansion/f2p being able to buy from the gemstore both a basic mount (PvE only) and basic glider where the basic mount is only at 33% speed and the basic glider has only half the glide distance of a regular first level glider. For one thing this will allow ANet to sell glider and backpack/glider combos in the gem store to more people. They can also sell the basic 33% speed boost mount in the gemstore to these people. If they want to upgrade to a regular glider or mount they’ll need to buy the expansion.

    Or they could create a couple of "borrow mount" sites, perhaps one per zone. You can grab a raptor in HoT, a skimmer in Maguuma, a springer for talk shows Shiverpeaks. You wouldn't be able to use the special action keys and you'd lose the mount upon interact/combat. It would give F2P, Core-only, and HoT-only a chance to try them out, without offering all the convenience that purchasing PoF would unlock.

    That’s a thought. However my suggestion also doesn’t have all the conveniences of purchasing PoF as the mount would only have 33% speed, not super speed, and wouldn’t have any of the other abilities. In addition, other than getting and riding around once in a zone, losing it on combat would be annoyance and make not worth using once you’ve tried it. It would be on ignore for those who are going more than a few feet and stopping to kill things, do Hearts, etc.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

    Forum Guides: Images. Text

  • @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I’m leaning towards nonexpansion/f2p being able to buy from the gemstore both a basic mount (PvE only) and basic glider where the basic mount is only at 33% speed and the basic glider has only half the glide distance of a regular first level glider. For one thing this will allow ANet to sell glider and backpack/glider combos in the gem store to more people. They can also sell the basic 33% speed boost mount in the gemstore to these people. If they want to upgrade to a regular glider or mount they’ll need to buy the expansion.

    Or they could create a couple of "borrow mount" sites, perhaps one per zone. You can grab a raptor in HoT, a skimmer in Maguuma, a springer for talk shows Shiverpeaks. You wouldn't be able to use the special action keys and you'd lose the mount upon interact/combat. It would give F2P, Core-only, and HoT-only a chance to try them out, without offering all the convenience that purchasing PoF would unlock.

    That’s a thought. However my suggestion also doesn’t have all the conveniences of purchasing PoF as the mount would only have 33% speed, not super speed, and wouldn’t have any of the other abilities. In addition, other than getting and riding around once in a zone, losing it on combat would be annoyance and make not worth using once you’ve tried it. It would be on ignore for those who are going more than a few feet and stopping to kill things, do Hearts, etc.

    Right, my idea is to offer a taste for free, not the convenience. Your idea is complementary: it offers some of the convenience, at a cost. It's entirely possible for ANet to do both.

    I don't have a strong feeling about either idea, really. I'm not sure that it's important that F2P get mounts, seeing as they've played successfully for 2 years without gliders. On the other hand, I can see how a lack of mounts might discourage some people from staying long enough to consider converting to a paid account.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chip H.3951 said:
    The thing you must remember is that a single $30 expansion upgrades your account features alone by more than $80 worth of gem upgrades, never mind the expanded content you can access along with access to either gliders or mounts.

    A limited version of the core game exists to bring in new paying customers, full stop. Are you disadvantaged even in core by not having a mount? Yes, of course you are, you're also disadvantaged by limited character slots, limited bag slots, inability to post in map chat, and inability to access the guild bank. Further, you lack access to many of the more profitable areas. So, even if you were a grind monkey for farming and using the market for raising gold to convert to gems, you would still need to farm 1600 gold just to catch up with the utility of the bag and character slots available to someone who just buys the basic Path of Fire. Again, never mind the expanded content AND mounts they gain.

    If you refuse to (or can't for whatever reason afford to) buy at least one expansion to support the game, you're not part of their equation for good reason.

    I heard you can't convert gold to gems if you're a completely free account.

  • @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:
    I heard you can't convert gold to gems if you're a completely free account.

    Free to play can only gems > gold.

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irreverent.3594 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:
    I heard you can't convert gold to gems if you're a completely free account.

    Free to play can only gems > gold.

    That's what I thought. So they couldn't even turn gold into gems to try and get those extras of someone who bought GW2 before it went free to play.
    They would still have to buy gems... or the expansion... or gems to buy the expansion.

  • With the horrible exchange rates, I'm surprised anyone does it either way.

    But on topic--I remember when I started out as a free player. I saw people gliding, and thought, "Whoa, how do I do that? What, only with the expansion? Awwww..." That more than anything was what convinced me to buy HoT when I finished the core content. (Well, that and the fact that they lowered the price from 50 bucks to 30.)

    I bought PoF right away. I have mounts, but I still go on foot sometimes when I'm not in a hurry or the distance is short. I have to admit, when someone blasts past me on a raptor, there's a slight moment of annoyance and the urge to mount up myself to prove I have one, too.

    But seeing a raptor leap from a distance is a beautiful thing. (Fabulous job they did with that!) And I feel that the visuals of seeing the mounts running around adds a HUGE amount to the visual appeal of the game--just as funky gliders did. Even when I couldn't have one.

    I would love to suggest a new mechanic added to mounts, if it were at all possible....the ability to give a ride to a passenger!

  • @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Chip H.3951 said:
    If you refuse to (or can't for whatever reason afford to) buy at least one expansion to support the game, you're not part of their equation for good reason.

    I heard you can't convert gold to gems if you're a completely free account.

    Heh, didn't know that. Had the digital deluxe preordered April 2012 after playing GW1 since 2007, what I know about the FTP limitations are what I've picked up here and on the wiki. So it's even more insane that you would worry about mounts of all things when you don't even have the option of actually doing anything of note for free. Can't even imagine trying to play with just 3 bag slots and 2 character slots.

  • free play is like a test drive.. if you like it you can buy it, otherwise you can continue testing it......

  • @Zedek.8932 said:

    Excelsior.
    They are pay2play actually, a different thing. Also, since you get the core game with HoT, basically a great bundle deal, which is available since 2 years, I think they are paid off already with a lot of gametime and should consider either leaving or spending a few bucks on it. If they bought the actual core game, they have access to the game for over 2.5years now, up to 5 years (!). Do you think players being here for 2.5 - 5 years stay in the freebie zone that long if they find the time and money worthwile spend?

    Well, as per what I know, you pay once for the game and then you play it as long as you want or you can. For a Highlander's relative, this can be translated by "eternity". =) I intended to play the game for at least 50 years. How did you come to the conclusion that for me a 2,5 years of play covers the value of a game advertised to be played without limit of time? Why do you think that if for you translating the time of play in money is OK, this should be OK for all?
    I even don't remember how much I payed for the game when I bought it. But I remember I payed the price ANet asked for a game you can play forever. And I remember also that no mounts were in Tyria. What I have now? Mounts. In a product they sold me to play forever and having no mounts.

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    That’s a thought. However my suggestion also doesn’t have all the conveniences of purchasing PoF as the mount would only have 33% speed, not super speed, and wouldn’t have any of the other abilities. In addition, other than getting and riding around once in a zone, losing it on combat would be annoyance and make not worth using once you’ve tried it. It would be on ignore for those who are going more than a few feet and stopping to kill things, do Hearts, etc.

    Well, - in my opinion at least - this is not solving the problem. Giving a mount to all players is not changing the fact that (again - my opinion) they affects gameplay in core Tyria. This is the bad thing - the impact of the mounts in a zone designed without mounts in mind. A solution may be the use of the mounts only in PoF.

    @Aryan Arlande.6184 said:
    There's no need to give core-players some whatever - mount.
    There's really no need for everybody to run around in "God-Mode"
    God-mode is boring, you'll learn soon enough.

    Indeed :-)) The mounts should be only for the players who bought them - for the God-Mode. But not for the advantage - because is boring =) Should we show some compassion for your suffering?

  • The issue here is you're thinking in terms of how a subscription based game (Consistent guaranteed income) and how a free game works.

    Anet is here to make money. They're not here to cater to the players that don't make them any. Their goal is to make you buy things that either expand your gaming experience, or just improve the quality of life.

    Think of it this way, if you ran your own business and a person complained that a paying customer got something, and that person was just walking by the store, would you give them the free product or tell them if they want it they have to buy it?

    On the other hand, if free accounts get mounts and gliders am I going to get a refund for those in real money because why did I pay for an expansion based around gliders and mounts if someone is getting them for free all of a sudden?

  • I disagree that not having access to mounts in core Tyria (if you are on a f2p account) is a punishment or that players with mounts who have the latest expac shouldn't be allowed to use mounts in core Tyria because it puts others at a disadvantage.

    Core Tyria had neither gliding nor mounts for years. It isn't a punishment - it was how the game was designed and these are things that were not available at the time. As a long time player, one of the ideas which brought me excitement was to return to Core Tyria with the new mounts (as I did with gliding) to see how it was different. I could replay old material with a new flare. That isn't intended to make a f2p person feel bad - it is nostalgic fun for the players who still have Core Tyria burned into their memory when it was all we had.

    I also hope that f2p people who see the gliders and mounts that are available at their disposal if they too decide to purchase an expansion feel encouraged to do so! This isn't some micro transaction that is allowing some to get ahead of others... it is a full expansion with new maps, stories, collections, etc of which the mounts and gliders are just a taste of what they can see while in the f2p maps.

    I am really glad ANET has not locked the gliders to HOT or the mounts to POF. I hope they continue with this structure.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Zedek.8932 said:

    Excelsior.
    They are pay2play actually, a different thing. Also, since you get the core game with HoT, basically a great bundle deal, which is available since 2 years, I think they are paid off already with a lot of gametime and should consider either leaving or spending a few bucks on it. If they bought the actual core game, they have access to the game for over 2.5years now, up to 5 years (!). Do you think players being here for 2.5 - 5 years stay in the freebie zone that long if they find the time and money worthwile spend?

    Well, as per what I know, you pay once for the game and then you play it as long as you want or you can. For a Highlander's relative, this can be translated by "eternity". =) I intended to play the game for at least 50 years. How did you come to the conclusion that for me a 2,5 years of play covers the value of a game advertised to be played without limit of time? Why do you think that if for you translating the time of play in money is OK, this should be OK for all?
    I even don't remember how much I payed for the game when I bought it. But I remember I payed the price ANet asked for a game you can play forever. And I remember also that no mounts were in Tyria. What I have now? Mounts. In a product they sold me to play forever and having no mounts.

    Seriously, whine more. I also paid the full price for the game and and i'm in no way entitled to any of the content of the expansions the things that expand on the core game. That's why i didn't whine on the forums that i won't be able to get mounts, but instead bought the expansions to get mounts and gliding.

    Go to bethesda's forum and whine why they didn't give you the Dragonborn expansion for free because they advertised that you can play Skyrim forever and now all of a sudden there's more content in skyrim that other people play but you don't... The only difference is that you can't see the people playing the content you don't own so you can't be jealous like you are now.

    Seriously what kind of a dumb argument is that? You CAN play the game forever, but only the core game you paid for. Not the expansions.The fact that the core content is now free is another thing, but even compared to free players you have more benefits than they have.
    You're entitled to nothing, anet ows you nothing because you bought the original game so suck it up and buy the expansions if you want that expansions content.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

    @ThePlayMaker.1058 said:
    Core player experience? You mean F2P players, aka free demo players? Listen, a business can't survive on just love and happiness from its playerbase, it needs money to survive. In a game where you pay no subscription fee, the least you can do is pull out $30 for an expac every 2 years. It's absolutely nothing. People spend more than that on parties, dinners, etc each month/week! $30 across two years = $0.04 a day. The only way Anet survives as a company is with expac sales and gem purchases from its large playerbase.

    What about people who litetally only bought the core game. They are not f2p.

    Yes, people keep forgetting core-only before ftp. Especially us multiple-account types. I bought ultimate for both expansions (as well as the highest-cost download only of core for both of my accounts) but I am not about to buy the expansions twice. My other account is not a freeloader, anet made more money that they do now for that core-only account.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mounts adds some freshness in core Tyria for vet players who've already returned every stone, but believe me it is so much more valuable to discover your own way to the hidden places. The landscapes, the atmosphere, sometimes I just took a break at the top of a mountain after a hard climb for no reason at all.

  • Maikimaik.1974Maikimaik.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    I mean, it's only fair that people who chose not to support the game by not buying it have HUGE disadvantages.

  • Wait there are mounts in pvp?
    if not then ftp players can't really be at a disadvantage because there isn't supposed to be competition in pve. You lose nothing by not having mounts when others do. You just might get through content slower which is a good thing as long as it doesn't force you to feel like grinding.

  • @IonoI.3956 said:

    You lose nothing by not having mounts when others do.


    Core players will lose, either way.

    If they're newbies and get mounts, they will lose the beautiful experience we oldies all had playing the game as it was intended.

    If not, they lose fun, 'cause mounts and mounties makes them a hard time, day for day.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2017

    @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.
    But it seems that the others are not. They bought the expansion to have an advantage over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

    What advantage do people have with mounts over those without mounts? Come on, tell me an example... Not just an imaginary one, a real one.
    People didn't buy PoF to have an advantage over f2p players, they bought it because most of them already did the content you're complaining about now (and are enjoying for free while the majority of the players had to pay for what you're playing free now). So since most players already did 100% map completion in core tyria and probably also HoT, they bought it for some new game content which happen to be mounts among other things. They certainly didn't buy it just to "win" at core tyria maps.

    There is actually an advantage .. it's much easier to get around and do map completion. Remember all those hard to jump to vistas? Not anymore ... just break our the Rabbit. Remember the days when Guardian had to take Traveler's runes? not anymore, any mount get's you whereever you want fast.

    It's also super easy to avoid areas in OW packed with mobs with mounts. Running through some places was just not an option, now mounts ignore immobilize, etc.... you can go whereever you want with impunity.

    Don't get me wrong though ... even though there are advantages, i don't think the OP is correct in thinking they shouldn't be available outside a paid expansion.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/