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imagine :)

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  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    @Killthehealersffs.8940 @Psycoprophet.8107
    staff/staff daredevil is op in the sense that it warps the game around it since only particular builds can deal with it.
    But i am 100% against nerfing staff to the point of un-play ability, which seams like it will be the case, just because 1 degenerate build poped up and is abusing the on swap trait and sigils to bunker points. Daredevil was never meant to be a bunker but a bruiser, there is a big difference there.

    i don't see the problem with a build being extremely defensive to keep a node. this is what conquest is about. as for thief, evades is just the only way you can do it, but people seem to hate everything they can't hit.

    as for the on swap stuff, you're wrong. caed (i think) once polarized a double s/d build back in the times of dhumfire necro and spirit ranger with the same ini on weapon swap trait. as usual, it got nerfed because people in the history of gw2 have always complained about evades.

    if thief evades and stealth keep getting nerfed, how about giving thief an actual build that doesn't rely on them?

    This^ its halarious to me that the community spouts op on any thief build that has a chance at 1v1'ing than turns around and complains about thieves always disengaging during fights and how it's unfair. So according to the community thief shouldn't be able to hold its ground because of the mobility it has but at the same time shouldn't be able to have the mobility to constantly disengage due to not being able to hold it's ground lol its beyond funny. The staff/staff build dps isnt near what most dps builds do like if DA or CS was opted for instead of acro. Most other high deeps builds on other classes do more to. So staff/staff is basically a stall build that uses timed evades to sustain due to EVADES being it's way of sustain and its OP? So a warrior or any classes using their multiple passive and active sustain options while having high bursts is ok but a thief that spams evades cuz it's how it lives is OP? Why is any thief build that can somewhat stand its ground op? And why is it OP if thief has mobility if it doesn't have the ability to hold its ground ie disengage? So is thief supposed to be weak 1v1 and have low sustain/hp with just ok disengage potential? Sounds like a viable class to me lol. I hope I'm wrong but I can see the thief class as a whole being basically erased by these new devs with the help of the vocal gw2 community that has little care to the long term health of the game and only want their preferred classes to be in great spots while being barely contested by others, been this way for a long time now.

    So you want to be necormancer with high mobility in a nutshell?
    The issue is not that it can 1v1

    The issue is that while its 1v1'ing its not very subjective to any kind of retaliation other than on hit procs such as retaliation and auras both of which are extremely rare among the professions. Retaliations being limited to mostly guardian and auras like shocking aura being limited to only tempest and base ele for the most part.
    People dont mind you having lots of evades or a modest amount of stealth what people do mind is not having enough common tools spread throughout the game to combat it. Literally nothing except shocking aura stops that style of play for any decent amount of time and only should the thief choose to strike the aura buffed target.
    If a build does not allow for others to retaliate reasonably during a moment of down time then that build needs to be adjusted its simple.

    No one cares if you get the power to 1v1 people care if they don't ever have a proper turn to fight you back though.

    My issue is that when a thief build is buffed into a spot where its somewhat a viable 1v1 build without relying on one shot cheap mechanics its deemed OP because it constantly evades. How else would it sustain long enough in the fight if evades are its main defensive mechanic, of course it would have to evade enough to sustain itself in a fight to win it.
    So if a thieves evades are to op because they can allow the thief to stay in the fight long enough(doesn't have passive sustain/hp or invulnerability) than how will a thief sustain itself in the fight long enough to win? They can't have a burst buff to shorten ttk so they wouldnt need sustain cuz the community will cry, they already cry about them disengaging all the time due to low sustain so.... and now being g able to evade long enough to sustain the fight is OP lmao it's seriously halarious. Like I said can't wait to see where thief's at in a yr. Not being able to combat it is BS as I'm not a amazing player myself yet I've had zero issues taking down staff thieves in every rank game I've played. There was a few that took a while to down so I left them but they weren't a big threat to me yet I can face half the other classes that take a while to down as well but can burst u in secs with far more deeps like warrior,holo,slb etc and on top the DD has one burst rotation so it's easy to know what its gonna do,other classes have many but because it's a thief build when community gets all in arms.
    Good stuff!

    Let's not pretend that staff staff is "somewhat viable." Like let's just stop right there. Chaining evade frames by abusing a bug should be fixed plain and simple. When a build hard counters entire classes (not just other builds), while 1v2 and 1v3, there is an OBVIOUS problem.

    Stop downplaying how abusive the spec is.

    This isn't about ranked games, which are completely meaningless and riddled with low skill players. This is about ACTUAL games at what's left of the top tier of this game. Watch a monthly AT for once and understand what's going on.

    Chaining evade frame that cost 5 of 15 ini each time yeah it has a cost and cant chain for long. If it were me I'd keep the bug and remove the passive evade from the rollback and have it just be a low dps distance giving skill. May not require much skill to get the evade that way but at least it requires more than a press of button. To many aspects of the game skill wise is getting dumbed down. The game needs more skillful game play added not removed. Honestly I think I ran into 5 staff thieves in last two months of ranked. Reading these forums they make it seem their everywhere but I barely saw them lol
    The day staff thief is the big bad oh man lol

    You seem to either willfully ignore the points made to your or they simply escape you. "Skillful" play isn't bug abuse to prevent yourself from being pressured. I'd argue that making use of a non bug abused staff 3 would be MORE skillful, since it can't be chained with zero frames of vulnerability.

    Again, no one cares at all about ranked, the fact that you continue to divert to it proves that you have no idea and no real context as to the efficacy of the build.

    AGAIN, feel free to watch MONTHLY TOURNAMENT vods.

    This was the problem with the build https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtisticFairJamBlargNaut this person is spamming everything they have and its nearly 40 seconds of evade frames. That's not even using the most survivable form of the build BTW. If this person were playing the build seriously (aka not spamming until they have no cds left) you would be seeing minutes on end where a point is either neutral or capped in the thief's favor with no viable recourse from the vast majority of classes and builds.

    That is unacceptable and you need to get over it, you seem to have a real big ego that "I don't have any problems with staff thief I beat them all the time even though I never see them because all I do is play ranked."

    So u think pushing a button and the skill giving u a evade passively as u roll back is more skillful than if the evade was removed and only available if u timed not only hitting the skill but having to time a jump just before? Hmmm ok makes sense lol. Nearly 40 secs eh? U post a vid of u evading with the build for 40 seconds real time. Let's see it. First of all in that vid I counted 18 secs and second there were multiple times in between that player could have been caught. I have never had a player dancing around like that that was untouchable between dodges. If shorts thinks he couldn't have hit that player during that whole time he's full of it.

  • Poledra Val.1490Poledra Val.1490 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    The sooner the abominations that condie thief and dodge thief is nerfed the healthier pvp will be, bottom line.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The sooner the abomination that condie thief and dodge thief is nerfed the healthier pvp will be, bottom line.

    I mean, didnt they just get 2 hotfix nerfs?

    Anet is not going to remove thief from the meta.

    Thief will ALWAYS be meta, forever and ever.

    Amen.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • Poledra Val.1490Poledra Val.1490 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The sooner the abomination that condie thief and dodge thief is nerfed the healthier pvp will be, bottom line.

    I mean, didnt they just get 2 hotfix nerfs?

    Anet is not going to remove thief from the meta.

    Thief will ALWAYS be meta, forever and ever.

    Amen.

    Nope there have been no hotfixes yet, to those specific builds.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The sooner the abomination that condie thief and dodge thief is nerfed the healthier pvp will be, bottom line.

    I mean, didnt they just get 2 hotfix nerfs?

    Anet is not going to remove thief from the meta.

    Thief will ALWAYS be meta, forever and ever.

    Amen.

    Nope there have been no hotfixes yet, to those specific builds.

    No, go look at release notes.

    Deadly ambition was hit, half the stacks and double the cd.

    Staff 3 was bug fixed and initiative increased from 4 to 6.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • Poledra Val.1490Poledra Val.1490 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The sooner the abomination that condie thief and dodge thief is nerfed the healthier pvp will be, bottom line.

    I mean, didnt they just get 2 hotfix nerfs?

    Anet is not going to remove thief from the meta.

    Thief will ALWAYS be meta, forever and ever.

    Amen.

    Nope there have been no hotfixes yet, to those specific builds.

    No, go look at release notes.

    Deadly ambition was hit, half the stacks and double the cd.

    Staff 3 was bug fixed and initiative increased from 4 to 6.

    I stand corrected that is good news. Condie thief still needs to be adjusted though by a bit more imo i dont think its enough even the developer in his comment about Deadly ambition mentioned he doesent think it will be enough either.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    So whens the guard nerfs, u know the 2 trap pull and spin to intsta kill anyone while burning them. Just watched 2 players chasing a guard and beating on a guard and eventually gave up cuz guard was just blocking,using invulnerability and out healing them lmao but that's ok right? or the warrior rifle or melee builds that double tap a maurader thief while having double the sustain, or the mirages that insta burst while ccing u and constantly swapping places with there clones, or holo's that take massive beating than combo with their turret for full hp or go Invulnerable or may as well add stealth away as well if they wish or the soulbeast who can strip most classes to zero in one burst from 1800 away. List goes on. Now that we've battered thief can we focus on the other outliers cuz a hell of alot more specs than thief needed nerfs :)
    Who's next? Let's keep the nerf train rolling.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So whens the guard nerfs, u know the 2 trap pull and spin to intsta kill anyone while burning them. Just watched 2 players chasing a guard and beating on a guard and eventually gave up cuz guard was just blocking,using invulnerability and out healing them lmao but that's ok right? or the warrior rifle or melee builds that double tap a maurader thief while having double the sustain, or the mirages that insta burst while ccing u and constantly swapping places with there clones, or holo's that take massive beating than combo with their turret for full hp or go Invulnerable or may as well add stealth away as well if they wish or the soulbeast who can strip most classes to zero in one burst from 1800 away. List goes on. Now that we've battered thief can we focus on the other outliers cuz a hell of alot more specs than thief needed nerfs :)
    Who's next? Let's keep the nerf train rolling.

    There is a new dp revival.

    Soon, it will be asking for nerfs.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    The way ppl complain after a hotfix went life makes me convinced that no amount of changes will ever satisfy the vocal ones; staff is unplayable now and ppl continued to qq about it on here lol.
    Shame that any and all staff daredevil builds got obliterated instead of just the staff/staff bunker build that is not even that effective outside of a 5 man team that knows how to abuse it.

    Fingers crossed that the devs actually follow through with what they said here, and this is just an emergency patch to remove the build from the game until the next full balance update where things get addressed properly, however anet's prior balancing antics make me very skeptical.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @foste.3098 said:
    The way ppl complain after a hotfix went life makes me convinced that no amount of changes will ever satisfy the vocal ones; staff is unplayable now and ppl continued to qq about it on here lol.
    Shame that any and all staff daredevil builds got obliterated instead of just the staff/staff bunker build that is not even that effective outside of a 5 man team that knows how to abuse it.

    Fingers crossed that the devs actually follow through with what they said here, and this is just an emergency patch to remove the build from the game until the next full balance update where things get addressed properly, however anet's prior balancing antics make me very skeptical.

    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Koen.1327 said:
    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

    The problem is variety, staff/shot bow was a fine build for ranked and i can attest to that as i got to high platinum for the last 3 seasons; and then usually decayed to silver as i haven't the time to play consistently.
    Just because you personally do not like a build doesn't mean it has to be trashed, if we go by that logic fire weaver is a unskilled sloth build that chains evades and heals while pulsing out burns, it is unfun to face so plz nerf it by increasing the cd of primordial stance to 120 seconds.

    I agree staff/staff needed a change, but not one that it got which deletes staff as a weapon from pvp, the double staff quick pockets build specifically needed a change.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @foste.3098 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

    The problem is variety, staff/shot bow was a fine build for ranked and i can attest to that as i got to high platinum for the last 3 seasons; and then usually decayed to silver as i haven't the time to play consistently.
    Just because you personally do not like a build doesn't mean it has to be trashed, if we go by that logic fire weaver is a unskilled sloth build that chains evades and heals while pulsing out burns, it is unfun to face so plz nerf it by increasing the cd of primordial stance to 120 seconds.

    I agree staff/staff needed a change, but not one that it got which deletes staff as a weapon from pvp, the double staff quick pockets build specifically needed a change.

    I ment unfun as in other sidenode specs arent even viable with staff/staff around, so it has to go.
    Non meta builds are always hit as well but i do agree they should alter around double staff this is true.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    The way ppl complain after a hotfix went life makes me convinced that no amount of changes will ever satisfy the vocal ones; staff is unplayable now and ppl continued to qq about it on here lol.
    Shame that any and all staff daredevil builds got obliterated instead of just the staff/staff bunker build that is not even that effective outside of a 5 man team that knows how to abuse it.

    Fingers crossed that the devs actually follow through with what they said here, and this is just an emergency patch to remove the build from the game until the next full balance update where things get addressed properly, however anet's prior balancing antics make me very skeptical.

    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

    What's the problem with nerfing the monkey build when other staff builds arnt viable? This is seriously an example of what's wrong with a large sum of gw2 players mentality and I hope the new devs see this. For one this poster is basically saying what's wrong if staff has no viable builds any way so delete the one that is. 2nd the staff was designed to be a "monkey build" which u can clearly see by the skill designs and the DD traitline so expecting people to play it differently is stupid. As I said before the players in thos game are so special their literally go a be the cause that pvp fails.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    The way ppl complain after a hotfix went life makes me convinced that no amount of changes will ever satisfy the vocal ones; staff is unplayable now and ppl continued to qq about it on here lol.
    Shame that any and all staff daredevil builds got obliterated instead of just the staff/staff bunker build that is not even that effective outside of a 5 man team that knows how to abuse it.

    Fingers crossed that the devs actually follow through with what they said here, and this is just an emergency patch to remove the build from the game until the next full balance update where things get addressed properly, however anet's prior balancing antics make me very skeptical.

    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

    What's the problem with nerfing the monkey build when other staff builds arnt viable? This is seriously an example of what's wrong with a large sum of gw2 players mentality and I hope the new devs see this. For one this poster is basically saying what's wrong if staff has no viable builds any way so delete the one that is. 2nd the staff was designed to be a "monkey build" which u can clearly see by the skill designs and the DD traitline so expecting people to play it differently is stupid. As I said before the players in thos game are so special their literally go a be the cause that pvp fails.

    Yes instead of 1 single (unskilled) build being viable, id rather have multiple builds viable - exactly why double staff needed to go
    Im glad it goes this way instead of going to a more monotone gameplay

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    The way ppl complain after a hotfix went life makes me convinced that no amount of changes will ever satisfy the vocal ones; staff is unplayable now and ppl continued to qq about it on here lol.
    Shame that any and all staff daredevil builds got obliterated instead of just the staff/staff bunker build that is not even that effective outside of a 5 man team that knows how to abuse it.

    Fingers crossed that the devs actually follow through with what they said here, and this is just an emergency patch to remove the build from the game until the next full balance update where things get addressed properly, however anet's prior balancing antics make me very skeptical.

    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

    What's the problem with nerfing the monkey build when other staff builds arnt viable? This is seriously an example of what's wrong with a large sum of gw2 players mentality and I hope the new devs see this. For one this poster is basically saying what's wrong if staff has no viable builds any way so delete the one that is. 2nd the staff was designed to be a "monkey build" which u can clearly see by the skill designs and the DD traitline so expecting people to play it differently is stupid. As I said before the players in thos game are so special their literally go a be the cause that pvp fails.

    Yes instead of 1 single (unskilled) build being viable, id rather have multiple builds viable - exactly why double staff needed to go
    Im glad it goes this way instead of going to a more monotone gameplay

    Yeah prob is this is gw2 so no no staff build will be viable for yrs lol the bounding staff build was designed to bound around and use evades for defence and wasn't a huge issue to players that learnt to fight it but instead people dont learn they just cry and get it removed. It's funny as a maurader thief player to get double tapped to 0 hp from full by a rifle warrior at range or by a ranger or get knock down and killed in one gs flurry from warrior. Last night a guard pulled me into his trap and one gs spin downed me. My point is every spec has builds as cheese as the third staff build but a class like thief gets so much nerf attention do to the non thieves players disliking the class playstyle and keep whining for nerfs thinking nerfs are gonna change the thief playstyle and how they feel being killed by one. The class literally gets nerfed for having a playstyle a rogue is sopose to have due to the community mentality, then its mesmer and so on. Holo is by far more versitile and stronger than any thief build but thief gets hot fixes lmao right, this games gonna def change for the better lol

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    The way ppl complain after a hotfix went life makes me convinced that no amount of changes will ever satisfy the vocal ones; staff is unplayable now and ppl continued to qq about it on here lol.
    Shame that any and all staff daredevil builds got obliterated instead of just the staff/staff bunker build that is not even that effective outside of a 5 man team that knows how to abuse it.

    Fingers crossed that the devs actually follow through with what they said here, and this is just an emergency patch to remove the build from the game until the next full balance update where things get addressed properly, however anet's prior balancing antics make me very skeptical.

    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

    What's the problem with nerfing the monkey build when other staff builds arnt viable? This is seriously an example of what's wrong with a large sum of gw2 players mentality and I hope the new devs see this. For one this poster is basically saying what's wrong if staff has no viable builds any way so delete the one that is. 2nd the staff was designed to be a "monkey build" which u can clearly see by the skill designs and the DD traitline so expecting people to play it differently is stupid. As I said before the players in thos game are so special their literally go a be the cause that pvp fails.

    Yes instead of 1 single (unskilled) build being viable, id rather have multiple builds viable - exactly why double staff needed to go
    Im glad it goes this way instead of going to a more monotone gameplay

    Yeah prob is this is gw2 so no no staff build will be viable for yrs lol the bounding staff build was designed to bound around and use evades for defence and wasn't a huge issue to players that learnt to fight it but instead people dont learn they just cry and get it removed. It's funny as a maurader thief player to get double tapped to 0 hp from full by a rifle warrior at range or by a ranger or get knock down and killed in one gs flurry from warrior. Last night a guard pulled me into his trap and one gs spin downed me. My point is every spec has builds as cheese as the third staff build but a class like thief gets so much nerf attention do to the non thieves players disliking the class playstyle and keep whining for nerfs thinking nerfs are gonna change the thief playstyle and how they feel being killed by one. The class literally gets nerfed for having a playstyle a rogue is sopose to have due to the community mentality, then its mesmer and so on. Holo is by far more versitile and stronger than any thief build but thief gets hot fixes lmao right, this games gonna def change for the better lol

    if you'd read other people's comment and watch the monthly vids, you'd see that there is no thing or nobody who had "learnt to fight it" because all good players switched to this exact brainless thief build. The only thing to learn was to switch to double staff thief and not improve from there because anyone could play this build regardless of experience or skill in this game.
    double staff thief > holo, weaver, mirage, spellbreaker and so on - on the side node - thats why it had to go

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    The way ppl complain after a hotfix went life makes me convinced that no amount of changes will ever satisfy the vocal ones; staff is unplayable now and ppl continued to qq about it on here lol.
    Shame that any and all staff daredevil builds got obliterated instead of just the staff/staff bunker build that is not even that effective outside of a 5 man team that knows how to abuse it.

    Fingers crossed that the devs actually follow through with what they said here, and this is just an emergency patch to remove the build from the game until the next full balance update where things get addressed properly, however anet's prior balancing antics make me very skeptical.

    Ye ats are a thing
    It made ats unfun and other staff builds werent viable in ranked anyway, so whats the problem in trashing this unskilled monkey build?

    What's the problem with nerfing the monkey build when other staff builds arnt viable? This is seriously an example of what's wrong with a large sum of gw2 players mentality and I hope the new devs see this. For one this poster is basically saying what's wrong if staff has no viable builds any way so delete the one that is. 2nd the staff was designed to be a "monkey build" which u can clearly see by the skill designs and the DD traitline so expecting people to play it differently is stupid. As I said before the players in thos game are so special their literally go a be the cause that pvp fails.

    Yes instead of 1 single (unskilled) build being viable, id rather have multiple builds viable - exactly why double staff needed to go
    Im glad it goes this way instead of going to a more monotone gameplay

    Yeah prob is this is gw2 so no no staff build will be viable for yrs lol the bounding staff build was designed to bound around and use evades for defence and wasn't a huge issue to players that learnt to fight it but instead people dont learn they just cry and get it removed. It's funny as a maurader thief player to get double tapped to 0 hp from full by a rifle warrior at range or by a ranger or get knock down and killed in one gs flurry from warrior. Last night a guard pulled me into his trap and one gs spin downed me. My point is every spec has builds as cheese as the third staff build but a class like thief gets so much nerf attention do to the non thieves players disliking the class playstyle and keep whining for nerfs thinking nerfs are gonna change the thief playstyle and how they feel being killed by one. The class literally gets nerfed for having a playstyle a rogue is sopose to have due to the community mentality, then its mesmer and so on. Holo is by far more versitile and stronger than any thief build but thief gets hot fixes lmao right, this games gonna def change for the better lol

    if you'd read other people's comment and watch the monthly vids, you'd see that there is no thing or nobody who had "learnt to fight it" because all good players switched to this exact brainless thief build. The only thing to learn was to switch to double staff thief and not improve from there because anyone could play this build regardless of experience or skill in this game.
    double staff thief > holo, weaver, mirage, spellbreaker and so on - on the side node - thats why it had to go

    Gues I've gotten lucky over past years always meeting bad staff players cuz only a few were ever much a issue to handle lol

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    double posts

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Guaranteed had build been left as is within what's left of the year people would learn to counter it and it be considered not viable competitively. People aren't used to seeing it so haven't gotten used to fighting it and dont want to cuz again, it's a thief spec.

    That spec existed far longer .
    And we have ppl like you that whined about Warriors , which is from the same period as Thiefs
    And you left for archage , but you are ok with theif spec driving away other players ....

    (and i the bad , racking up infractions...)

    I actually like warriors in this game, I use them as comparisons and I know how long staff/staff thief and bounding Dodger builds have been out for yet until just last couple months it's a problem. The gw2 community has always had a mob mentality. As soon as a few post are up about a build being OP anytime a player gets beat by it they post one and so on. Again are u new cuz I'm not, been this way forever and is part of the reason the games balance is all over the place. I remember playing staff couple yrs back almost exclusively in wvw and pvp and almost seemed like I was the only one as most people thought it was garbage but now it's the ultimate weapon with a few tweaks lmao never gets old.

    You were jumping from WvWvW to PvP threads , saying that ''i havent played Condition or Stuff , but i beat with with my S/D''
    Also it wont work in competive enviroment and the rest of the casuals should sulk it up .
    Whined to the company for creating Warrior and giving them more burst than theifs , and you urged ppl to move to archage .
    But for some reason you ok with other ppl leaving , as long as your spec doesnt get nerfed

    Have you thought for a sec , that players like YOU created these powercreep ?
    Theifs before you sad +done the same thing .... and the newer Theifs will do the same

    (find a ratio defense vs attack , and each objective captured offers 5% increase damage/healing (no toughness) + 2% to the opponent to speeed things ingame like moba)

    Wow ur reaching for a pathetic attempts here bud to prove what? I have taken down many DD staff builds as I've played mostly s/d power and condi s/d but I've played thief t yrs lol I've played alot of staff to, almost for a yr strait so not sure what ur spouting off here? And no I dont find them problematic. yeah I've stated warriors have the same burst as the rogue in this game which is definitely outa whack, doesnt mean I dont like warrior as if u go to warrior threads ull see I posted asking questions like 5 months ago and was gonna swap from maining thief to warrior so..... I donno what to tell u.

    Ok tell me the reason , that you went to Archage and you prompted other ppl to do the same ....
    a) Is it because you whined about other classes have the same burst as theif , and they are more problematic ... they existed the same time as the thief . (at least Contition Mesmers have 10 buttons to play as piano) Why didnt you find a counter , like you are telling the Devs in this thred to let the Stuff/Stuff exist for 1 year , so the casuals will find a counter ?
    b) Change of scenery ? why you are posting about balance here then and not implanting Archage Naval Combat ?

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Guaranteed had build been left as is within what's left of the year people would learn to counter it and it be considered not viable competitively. People aren't used to seeing it so haven't gotten used to fighting it and dont want to cuz again, it's a thief spec.

    That spec existed far longer .
    And we have ppl like you that whined about Warriors , which is from the same period as Thiefs
    And you left for archage , but you are ok with theif spec driving away other players ....

    (and i the bad , racking up infractions...)

    I actually like warriors in this game, I use them as comparisons and I know how long staff/staff thief and bounding Dodger builds have been out for yet until just last couple months it's a problem. The gw2 community has always had a mob mentality. As soon as a few post are up about a build being OP anytime a player gets beat by it they post one and so on. Again are u new cuz I'm not, been this way forever and is part of the reason the games balance is all over the place. I remember playing staff couple yrs back almost exclusively in wvw and pvp and almost seemed like I was the only one as most people thought it was garbage but now it's the ultimate weapon with a few tweaks lmao never gets old.

    You were jumping from WvWvW to PvP threads , saying that ''i havent played Condition or Stuff , but i beat with with my S/D''
    Also it wont work in competive enviroment and the rest of the casuals should sulk it up .
    Whined to the company for creating Warrior and giving them more burst than theifs , and you urged ppl to move to archage .
    But for some reason you ok with other ppl leaving , as long as your spec doesnt get nerfed

    Have you thought for a sec , that players like YOU created these powercreep ?
    Theifs before you sad +done the same thing .... and the newer Theifs will do the same

    (find a ratio defense vs attack , and each objective captured offers 5% increase damage/healing (no toughness) + 2% to the opponent to speeed things ingame like moba)

    Wow ur reaching for a pathetic attempts here bud to prove what? I have taken down many DD staff builds as I've played mostly s/d power and condi s/d but I've played thief t yrs lol I've played alot of staff to, almost for a yr strait so not sure what ur spouting off here? And no I dont find them problematic. yeah I've stated warriors have the same burst as the rogue in this game which is definitely outa whack, doesnt mean I dont like warrior as if u go to warrior threads ull see I posted asking questions like 5 months ago and was gonna swap from maining thief to warrior so..... I donno what to tell u.

    Ok tell me the reason , that you went to Archage and you prompted other ppl to do the same ....
    a) Is it because you whined about other classes have the same burst as theif , and they are more problematic ... they existed the same time as the thief . Why didnt you find a counter , like you are telling the Devs in this thred to let the Stuff/Stuff exist for 1 year so the casuals find a tactic
    b) Change of scenery ? why you are posting about balance here then ?

    Man ur really stuck on me leaving to AAU eh?
    Reason 1 is I played gw2 for over 5 yrs and the pve is boring in this game IMO.
    2nd the population in pvp and wvw is very low compared to what it was.
    3rd reason is I feel the balance in this game will always be garbage the classes that are more vocally hated due to a dislike of its playstyle will always be held back do to the devs not having a clear vision and nerfing spec solely on the vocal community and often makes changes that are confusing to the players or make changes based off players that dont even play the class and ignore the actual players of said class.
    Certain classes that are more popular or have a larger player base will always be in a better spot due to less nerf heavy vocal cry's.
    The balance as far as most of the gw2 community is nerf any class that is difficult for me or that I just dont like the playstyle of, join nerd posts like a mob to nerf a class just cuz if it's not mine than why not and lastly dont touch my op class that is completely balanced.
    Cuz if this the game will continue to bleed players as it has been for the last year.

    AAU is a sandbox not theme park which I personally prefer.
    The rogue like class even when complained about remains the highest melee burst hit and run (darkrunner) build like a rogue class should be not some glassy class that got its burst stripped cuz whiners to the point others do it better.
    Lastly I find the game fun and like the pvp/pve mixed together as it adds danger and excitement to pve.
    I like gw2 combat mechanics the best and jump in 1 or 2 matches few times a week to get a little fix but that's all i can handle before frustration with balance sets in and that's as a thief player so I log out and play somthing not frustrating. U kno it's bad when ur ok getting constantly ganked by higher lv and geared players while trying to do quests but gw2 pvp frustrates u enough to log off after couple matches lol

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Guaranteed had build been left as is within what's left of the year people would learn to counter it and it be considered not viable competitively. People aren't used to seeing it so haven't gotten used to fighting it and dont want to cuz again, it's a thief spec.

    That spec existed far longer .
    And we have ppl like you that whined about Warriors , which is from the same period as Thiefs
    And you left for archage , but you are ok with theif spec driving away other players ....

    (and i the bad , racking up infractions...)

    I actually like warriors in this game, I use them as comparisons and I know how long staff/staff thief and bounding Dodger builds have been out for yet until just last couple months it's a problem. The gw2 community has always had a mob mentality. As soon as a few post are up about a build being OP anytime a player gets beat by it they post one and so on. Again are u new cuz I'm not, been this way forever and is part of the reason the games balance is all over the place. I remember playing staff couple yrs back almost exclusively in wvw and pvp and almost seemed like I was the only one as most people thought it was garbage but now it's the ultimate weapon with a few tweaks lmao never gets old.

    You were jumping from WvWvW to PvP threads , saying that ''i havent played Condition or Stuff , but i beat with with my S/D''
    Also it wont work in competive enviroment and the rest of the casuals should sulk it up .
    Whined to the company for creating Warrior and giving them more burst than theifs , and you urged ppl to move to archage .
    But for some reason you ok with other ppl leaving , as long as your spec doesnt get nerfed

    Have you thought for a sec , that players like YOU created these powercreep ?
    Theifs before you sad +done the same thing .... and the newer Theifs will do the same

    (find a ratio defense vs attack , and each objective captured offers 5% increase damage/healing (no toughness) + 2% to the opponent to speeed things ingame like moba)

    Wow ur reaching for a pathetic attempts here bud to prove what? I have taken down many DD staff builds as I've played mostly s/d power and condi s/d but I've played thief t yrs lol I've played alot of staff to, almost for a yr strait so not sure what ur spouting off here? And no I dont find them problematic. yeah I've stated warriors have the same burst as the rogue in this game which is definitely outa whack, doesnt mean I dont like warrior as if u go to warrior threads ull see I posted asking questions like 5 months ago and was gonna swap from maining thief to warrior so..... I donno what to tell u.

    Ok tell me the reason , that you went to Archage and you prompted other ppl to do the same ....
    a) Is it because you whined about other classes have the same burst as theif , and they are more problematic ... they existed the same time as the thief . Why didnt you find a counter , like you are telling the Devs in this thred to let the Stuff/Stuff exist for 1 year so the casuals find a tactic
    b) Change of scenery ? why you are posting about balance here then ?

    Man ur really stuck on me leaving to AAU eh?
    Reason 1 is I played gw2 for over 5 yrs and the pve is boring in this game IMO.
    2nd the population in pvp and wvw is very low compared to what it was.
    3rd reason is I feel the balance in this game will always be garbage the classes that are more vocally hated due to a dislike of its playstyle will always be held back do to the devs not having a clear vision and nerfing spec solely on the vocal community and often makes changes that are confusing to the players or make changes based off players that dont even play the class and ignore the actual players of said class.
    Certain classes that are more popular or have a larger player base will always be in a better spot due to less nerf heavy vocal cry's.
    The balance as far as most of the gw2 community is nerf any class that is difficult for me or that I just dont like the playstyle of, join nerd posts like a mob to nerf a class just cuz if it's not mine than why not and lastly dont touch my op class that is completely balanced.
    Cuz if this the game will continue to bleed players as it has been for the last year.

    1) I dont see you posting about implanting PvE ideas from Archage .... you simply go in the balance threads ...why is that ?
    2) Guess who fault is that ?What do you think you are doing by making replies over replies to others casuals ? You are trying to shut them down , makes them uncomfable and forcing them to leave ? What should i do to you then ?
    3) 3 replies up from here , every1 can see the reply that you made on Koen , that the worst offenders is other classes , but not Thiefs .
    PPl target specific unfun mechanics and you defend it ... Whos resposible for the Powercreep ?
    Simple answer is you :)

    (We see less whinning on Condition Mesmer , because they have to use 10 bottuns .... so the low lvl PvP is safe > they dont whine .
    Thief and Warriors + Enginners is problematic in all lvl )
    ''Crit , makes me right''

    (....5 years ....its you Cynz ?)

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Guaranteed had build been left as is within what's left of the year people would learn to counter it and it be considered not viable competitively. People aren't used to seeing it so haven't gotten used to fighting it and dont want to cuz again, it's a thief spec.

    That spec existed far longer .
    And we have ppl like you that whined about Warriors , which is from the same period as Thiefs
    And you left for archage , but you are ok with theif spec driving away other players ....

    (and i the bad , racking up infractions...)

    I actually like warriors in this game, I use them as comparisons and I know how long staff/staff thief and bounding Dodger builds have been out for yet until just last couple months it's a problem. The gw2 community has always had a mob mentality. As soon as a few post are up about a build being OP anytime a player gets beat by it they post one and so on. Again are u new cuz I'm not, been this way forever and is part of the reason the games balance is all over the place. I remember playing staff couple yrs back almost exclusively in wvw and pvp and almost seemed like I was the only one as most people thought it was garbage but now it's the ultimate weapon with a few tweaks lmao never gets old.

    You were jumping from WvWvW to PvP threads , saying that ''i havent played Condition or Stuff , but i beat with with my S/D''
    Also it wont work in competive enviroment and the rest of the casuals should sulk it up .
    Whined to the company for creating Warrior and giving them more burst than theifs , and you urged ppl to move to archage .
    But for some reason you ok with other ppl leaving , as long as your spec doesnt get nerfed

    Have you thought for a sec , that players like YOU created these powercreep ?
    Theifs before you sad +done the same thing .... and the newer Theifs will do the same

    (find a ratio defense vs attack , and each objective captured offers 5% increase damage/healing (no toughness) + 2% to the opponent to speeed things ingame like moba)

    Wow ur reaching for a pathetic attempts here bud to prove what? I have taken down many DD staff builds as I've played mostly s/d power and condi s/d but I've played thief t yrs lol I've played alot of staff to, almost for a yr strait so not sure what ur spouting off here? And no I dont find them problematic. yeah I've stated warriors have the same burst as the rogue in this game which is definitely outa whack, doesnt mean I dont like warrior as if u go to warrior threads ull see I posted asking questions like 5 months ago and was gonna swap from maining thief to warrior so..... I donno what to tell u.

    Ok tell me the reason , that you went to Archage and you prompted other ppl to do the same ....
    a) Is it because you whined about other classes have the same burst as theif , and they are more problematic ... they existed the same time as the thief . Why didnt you find a counter , like you are telling the Devs in this thred to let the Stuff/Stuff exist for 1 year so the casuals find a tactic
    b) Change of scenery ? why you are posting about balance here then ?

    Man ur really stuck on me leaving to AAU eh?
    Reason 1 is I played gw2 for over 5 yrs and the pve is boring in this game IMO.
    2nd the population in pvp and wvw is very low compared to what it was.
    3rd reason is I feel the balance in this game will always be garbage the classes that are more vocally hated due to a dislike of its playstyle will always be held back do to the devs not having a clear vision and nerfing spec solely on the vocal community and often makes changes that are confusing to the players or make changes based off players that dont even play the class and ignore the actual players of said class.
    Certain classes that are more popular or have a larger player base will always be in a better spot due to less nerf heavy vocal cry's.
    The balance as far as most of the gw2 community is nerf any class that is difficult for me or that I just dont like the playstyle of, join nerd posts like a mob to nerf a class just cuz if it's not mine than why not and lastly dont touch my op class that is completely balanced.
    Cuz if this the game will continue to bleed players as it has been for the last year.

    1) I dont see you posting about implanting PvE ideas from Archage .... you simply go in the balance threads ...why is that ?
    2) Guess who fault is that ?What do you think you are doing by making replies over replies to others casuals ? You are trying to shut them down , makes them uncomfable and forcing them to leave ? What should i do to you then ?
    3) 3 replies up from here , every1 can see the reply that you made on Koen , that the worst offenders is other classes , but not Thiefs .
    PPl target specific unfun mechanics and you defend it ... Whos resposible for the Powercreep ?
    Simple answer is you :)

    (We see less whinning on Condition Mesmer , because they have to use 10 bottuns .... so the low lvl PvP is safe > they dont whine .
    Thief and Warriors + Enginners is problematic in all lvl )
    ''Crit , makes me right''

    (....5 years ....its you Cynz ?)

    I dont play gw2 for pve so why would I post ideas influenced by AA n the pve section?
    This is a theme park mmo not sandbox so the players here arnt interested in adding sandbox elements like building a house, farming, fishing or building trade routes for income or they'd be playing a sandbox game. Players here want a more linear story driven experience that a theme park provides which is completely fine, I just find the story and heart system mind numbing but others love it so no need to change formula. Also I don't think the problem with the population decline lies in pve but more from a large chunk of long time pvp players leaving or left due to the clown fiesta in wvw and major balance issues across all pvp centric modes.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    Yes .. i agree with the clown fiesta in wvw and major balance issues across all pvp centric modes.
    That the Devs job to solve out .
    Then theres the human element ... the community .... that i am trying to found out :P
    You make numerous posts ... and i try to find the root

    You cannot say that you left GW2 for because they snoozfest PvE , and later on you dont play it .
    It might mean that you are trying to ''please me + befriend me''
    Which pervious theifs have used in the past , and didnt work :P

    Either you are willing to sucrifice thing , so other classes get nerfed too ....
    or simply bicker with me and hop to other games after Archage and visiting GW2 forums in the same time , for the next 4 years .
    (most thief , chose the second , so they help me to recharge my batteries:P)

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @foste.3098 said:
    @Killthehealersffs.8940 @Psycoprophet.8107
    staff/staff daredevil is op in the sense that it warps the game around it since only particular builds can deal with it.
    But i am 100% against nerfing staff to the point of un-play ability, which seams like it will be the case, just because 1 degenerate build poped up and is abusing the on swap trait and sigils to bunker points. Daredevil was never meant to be a bunker but a bruiser, there is a big difference there.

    i don't see the problem with a build being extremely defensive to keep a node. this is what conquest is about. as for thief, evades is just the only way you can do it, but people seem to hate everything they can't hit.

    as for the on swap stuff, you're wrong. caed (i think) once polarized a double s/d build back in the times of dhumfire necro and spirit ranger with the same ini on weapon swap trait. as usual, it got nerfed because people in the history of gw2 have always complained about evades.

    if thief evades and stealth keep getting nerfed, how about giving thief an actual build that doesn't rely on them?

    This^ its halarious to me that the community spouts op on any thief build that has a chance at 1v1'ing than turns around and complains about thieves always disengaging during fights and how it's unfair. So according to the community thief shouldn't be able to hold its ground because of the mobility it has but at the same time shouldn't be able to have the mobility to constantly disengage due to not being able to hold it's ground lol its beyond funny. The staff/staff build dps isnt near what most dps builds do like if DA or CS was opted for instead of acro. Most other high deeps builds on other classes do more to. So staff/staff is basically a stall build that uses timed evades to sustain due to EVADES being it's way of sustain and its OP? So a warrior or any classes using their multiple passive and active sustain options while having high bursts is ok but a thief that spams evades cuz it's how it lives is OP? Why is any thief build that can somewhat stand its ground op? And why is it OP if thief has mobility if it doesn't have the ability to hold its ground ie disengage? So is thief supposed to be weak 1v1 and have low sustain/hp with just ok disengage potential? Sounds like a viable class to me lol. I hope I'm wrong but I can see the thief class as a whole being basically erased by these new devs with the help of the vocal gw2 community that has little care to the long term health of the game and only want their preferred classes to be in great spots while being barely contested by others, been this way for a long time now.

    So you want to be necormancer with high mobility in a nutshell?
    The issue is not that it can 1v1

    The issue is that while its 1v1'ing its not very subjective to any kind of retaliation other than on hit procs such as retaliation and auras both of which are extremely rare among the professions. Retaliations being limited to mostly guardian and auras like shocking aura being limited to only tempest and base ele for the most part.
    People dont mind you having lots of evades or a modest amount of stealth what people do mind is not having enough common tools spread throughout the game to combat it. Literally nothing except shocking aura stops that style of play for any decent amount of time and only should the thief choose to strike the aura buffed target.
    If a build does not allow for others to retaliate reasonably during a moment of down time then that build needs to be adjusted its simple.

    No one cares if you get the power to 1v1 people care if they don't ever have a proper turn to fight you back though.

    My issue is that when a thief build is buffed into a spot where its somewhat a viable 1v1 build without relying on one shot cheap mechanics its deemed OP because it constantly evades. How else would it sustain long enough in the fight if evades are its main defensive mechanic, of course it would have to evade enough to sustain itself in a fight to win it.
    So if a thieves evades are to op because they can allow the thief to stay in the fight long enough(doesn't have passive sustain/hp or invulnerability) than how will a thief sustain itself in the fight long enough to win? They can't have a burst buff to shorten ttk so they wouldnt need sustain cuz the community will cry, they already cry about them disengaging all the time due to low sustain so.... and now being g able to evade long enough to sustain the fight is OP lmao it's seriously halarious. Like I said can't wait to see where thief's at in a yr. Not being able to combat it is BS as I'm not a amazing player myself yet I've had zero issues taking down staff thieves in every rank game I've played. There was a few that took a while to down so I left them but they weren't a big threat to me yet I can face half the other classes that take a while to down as well but can burst u in secs with far more deeps like warrior,holo,slb etc and on top the DD has one burst rotation so it's easy to know what its gonna do,other classes have many but because it's a thief build when community gets all in arms.
    Good stuff!

    Let's not pretend that staff staff is "somewhat viable." Like let's just stop right there. Chaining evade frames by abusing a bug should be fixed plain and simple. When a build hard counters entire classes (not just other builds), while 1v2 and 1v3, there is an OBVIOUS problem.

    Stop downplaying how abusive the spec is.

    This isn't about ranked games, which are completely meaningless and riddled with low skill players. This is about ACTUAL games at what's left of the top tier of this game. Watch a monthly AT for once and understand what's going on.

    Chaining evade frame that cost 5 of 15 ini each time yeah it has a cost and cant chain for long. If it were me I'd keep the bug and remove the passive evade from the rollback and have it just be a low dps distance giving skill. May not require much skill to get the evade that way but at least it requires more than a press of button. To many aspects of the game skill wise is getting dumbed down. The game needs more skillful game play added not removed. Honestly I think I ran into 5 staff thieves in last two months of ranked. Reading these forums they make it seem their everywhere but I barely saw them lol
    The day staff thief is the big bad oh man lol

    You seem to either willfully ignore the points made to your or they simply escape you. "Skillful" play isn't bug abuse to prevent yourself from being pressured. I'd argue that making use of a non bug abused staff 3 would be MORE skillful, since it can't be chained with zero frames of vulnerability.

    Again, no one cares at all about ranked, the fact that you continue to divert to it proves that you have no idea and no real context as to the efficacy of the build.

    AGAIN, feel free to watch MONTHLY TOURNAMENT vods.

    This was the problem with the build https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtisticFairJamBlargNaut this person is spamming everything they have and its nearly 40 seconds of evade frames. That's not even using the most survivable form of the build BTW. If this person were playing the build seriously (aka not spamming until they have no cds left) you would be seeing minutes on end where a point is either neutral or capped in the thief's favor with no viable recourse from the vast majority of classes and builds.

    That is unacceptable and you need to get over it, you seem to have a real big ego that "I don't have any problems with staff thief I beat them all the time even though I never see them because all I do is play ranked."

    So u think pushing a button and the skill giving u a evade passively as u roll back is more skillful than if the evade was removed and only available if u timed not only hitting the skill but having to time a jump just before? Hmmm ok makes sense lol. Nearly 40 secs eh? U post a vid of u evading with the build for 40 seconds real time. Let's see it. First of all in that vid I counted 18 secs and second there were multiple times in between that player could have been caught. I have never had a player dancing around like that that was untouchable between dodges. If shorts thinks he couldn't have hit that player during that whole time he's full of it.

    There was a clip I linked of me tanking a 1v3 for like 2 minutes on node on the staff thief build (marauders amulet). I don't remember where it is but I'll link it if I find it.

    Edit: Found it...

    1. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1013678/#Comment_1013678
    2. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962

    Edit 2: Oops looks like the vod is no longer available :( but there are screenshots I posted of me winning 1vX on the berserker variant of this build. You can also see Evodius in the kill feed on the other team so you can tell it's a relatively high-rated ranked match. (even funnier, I won 1v2 on thief but 2 of my teammates are in downstate lmfao... Great game. /s)

    But yeah this build can cycle it's evades for literally minutes just by spamming them. Spreading them out and evading intelligently can extend that time indefinitely.

    Edit 3: Also... obligatory, "I told you so!" ... I and several others tried to warn you guys about this build months in advance but you people didn't believe us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Edit 4: It got nerfed! Good job Anet!

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why are people crying?

    Some ape thief decided to play staff build after hot fix and got popped by me playing cele bunker scrapper LOL.

    He ran sword/dagger and staff. Stop crying. The build is dead, just like people wanted. This community is just full on cringe when it comes to balance.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:
    https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtisticFairJamBlargNaut this person is spamming everything they have and its nearly 40 seconds of evade

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Open to attack: 39 seconds to 37 seconds
    33-32
    31-29
    X to 27 (he's looking away)
    26-25
    24-23
    21-19
    18-15
    10-9
    6- End

    Stellar playerbase, just stellar.

    i see 20 seconds where u can 1 hit that thief.

    Kek.

    It's not reasonable to consider this a fair playstyle because there are small gaps in between the rotation. Even if you were accurately reporting the seconds that thief is open to attack in that rotation, it still would be too much to reasonably expect counterplay. The thief doesnt even begin the rotation until 0:34, so you cant count 0:39 to 0:37 as being open.

    Furthermore, when the thief finishes a dodge or evade he is not open for a whole second. I clicked a stopwatch in between a few of these dodges. On average, that thief is vulnerable for about a quarter of a second in between each of those dodges. There were 28 instances where that thief could be hit to be sure, but seeing as how each of the dodges has varying lengths and distances that are not predictable, you have a high chance of failing a CC or burst if you incorrectly guess which kind of evade the thief will use.

    0.25s X 28 is 7. There were 7 seconds total in that string where the thief could be struck, for about .25 or 250ms segments each. That is the average human reaction time, and this is a MMO. So you're adding anywhere from 30ms + on top of that for any move you choose to respond to that, and many of them are not instant cast and have their own startup times.

    It is not rational to expect to damage that rotation unless you get lucky and guess the next dodge type the thief is going to use and precast a CC. Dont be obtuse. It isn't fair.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    So what were basically saying is the DD or thief in general is designed to be double tapped by almost any skill but given evade frames out the kitten to compensate but the evades are now op and the best thing to do is lower its evades with no compensation. Gee best way for sure if u wanna kill a spec.
    But peeps are right actively spamming timed evades is braindead compared to passive sustain like more hp or multiple blocks and invulnerability skills that last 3 sec at a time etc. Sure wish thief had more of these skilled defenses

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So what were basically saying is the DD or thief in general is designed to be double tapped by almost any skill but given evade frames out the kitten to compensate but the evades are now op and the best thing to do is lower its evades with no compensation. Gee best way for sure if u wanna kill a spec.
    But peeps are right actively spamming timed evades is braindead compared to passive sustain like more hp or multiple blocks and invulnerability skills that last 3 sec at a time etc. Sure wish thief had more of these skilled defenses

    Nobody is saying the evades in general are OP.

    The evades with the Staff Staff Weapon set, that particular build, -is- OP, though. 40 seconds of evasion in a rotation where point capture is your primary objective isn't right. That's insane.

    There are other classes with busted sustain too, those also need to be looked at.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So what were basically saying is the DD or thief in general is designed to be double tapped by almost any skill but given evade frames out the kitten to compensate but the evades are now op and the best thing to do is lower its evades with no compensation. Gee best way for sure if u wanna kill a spec.
    But peeps are right actively spamming timed evades is braindead compared to passive sustain like more hp or multiple blocks and invulnerability skills that last 3 sec at a time etc. Sure wish thief had more of these skilled defenses

    Nobody is saying the evades in general are OP.

    The evades with the Staff Staff Weapon set, that particular build, -is- OP, though. 40 seconds of evasion in a rotation where point capture is your primary objective isn't right. That's insane.

    There are other classes with busted sustain too, those also need to be looked at.

    Every single frame during the landing of vault and bound are punishable. A block followed by a cc at end of any of them can be fatal for a DD as instant reflexes icd won't allow it to avoid constant cc evasion and I doubt most thieves or average thieves will stun break fast enough using other mean to avoid it. I have never once fought a staff DD that I couldn't hit, yes I've died to them but the definitely went impossible to hit and for how glassy they are and the dps being thrown out these days they should be very very hard to hit if played well or the spec is garbage. But ur right this is now and if the devs nerf other specs down maybe it was for the best to nerf the staff build. We will see.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Every single frame during the landing of vault and bound are punishable. A block followed by a cc at end of any of them can be fatal for a DD as instant reflexes icd won't allow it to avoid constant cc evasion and I doubt most thieves or average thieves will stun break fast enough using other mean to avoid it. I have never once fought a staff DD that I couldn't hit, yes I've died to them but the definitely went impossible to hit and for how glassy they are and the dps being thrown out these days they should be very very hard to hit if played well or the spec is garbage. But ur right this is now and if the devs nerf other specs down maybe it was for the best to nerf the staff build. We will see.

    Agreed. If active defense can be argued to be OP, then passive defense on a class with a more forgiving HP pool or more forgiving mechanics can also be argued to be OP if it promotes the same playstyle. Any rotation that can, to reasonable effect, be done without significant room for the opponent to do anything to offset it should get adjusted, and I am willing to give up staff/staff if that balancing direction is applied across the board.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    It's not reasonable to consider this a fair playstyle because there are small gaps in between the rotation. Even if you were accurately reporting the seconds that thief is open to attack in that rotation, it still would be too much to reasonably expect counterplay. The thief doesnt even begin the rotation until 0:34, so you cant count 0:39 to 0:37 as being open.

    Furthermore, when the thief finishes a dodge or evade he is not open for a whole second. I clicked a stopwatch in between a few of these dodges. On average, that thief is vulnerable for about a quarter of a second in between each of those dodges. There were 28 instances where that thief could be hit to be sure, but seeing as how each of the dodges has varying lengths and distances that are not predictable, you have a high chance of failing a CC or burst if you incorrectly guess which kind of evade the thief will use.

    0.25s X 28 is 7. There were 7 seconds total in that string where the thief could be struck, for about .25 or 250ms segments each. That is the average human reaction time, and this is a MMO. So you're adding anywhere from 30ms + on top of that for any move you choose to respond to that, and many of them are not instant cast and have their own startup times.

    It is not rational to expect to damage that rotation unless you get lucky and guess the next dodge type the thief is going to use and precast a CC. Dont be obtuse. It isn't fair.

    is actually requiring 2 overskilled players to kill it.. its over-survival rate match pre-nerf broken scrapper...

    the only way to "kill" this kind of thief is when it gets distracted fight 2 players at same time, then the 2nd foe find a oportunity windows to nuke a atack, but is still lucky shot.

    the spam of this thiev is start generating matches with 2 of them in one team, leading to typical broken spec situation where a team that stack more of them win, like the era of broken scourge or broken scrapper.

    also they evades let them escape from hit combos like necro Axe #2, or Reaper Shroud #4.

    if a team gets 2 of them, they just need let 1 "guarding" the home-node, and another on far node. each node can hold 2 foes, so the "unluck" team had a insane hard-time to try maintain the node-caps.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    U can all rest easy tonight as the build was nerfed.
    Who we nerfing next?

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U can all rest easy tonight as the build was nerfed.
    Who we nerfing next?

    We also need to look at:

    Rampage/Tactics on Warrior/might generation synergies proccing MMR (MMR is fine but might gen is 25 stacks)
    Holosmith
    Condition oriented Mirage
    Firebrand

    For nerfing.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U can all rest easy tonight as the build was nerfed.
    Who we nerfing next?

    We also need to look at:

    Rampage/Tactics on Warrior
    Holosmith
    Condition oriented Mirage
    Firebrand

    For nerfing.

    Nice! Well devs let's keep'er going :)

  • Please nerf the staff in wvw too so that it cannot simply be spammed without risk behind it.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @miguelsil.6324 said:
    Please nerf the staff in wvw too so that it cannot simply be spammed without risk behind it.

    I'm pretty sure it was nerfed in wvw as well

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.
    I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    Why are people crying?

    Some ape thief decided to play staff build after hot fix and got popped by me playing cele bunker scrapper LOL.

    He ran sword/dagger and staff. Stop crying. The build is dead, just like people wanted. This community is just full on cringe when it comes to balance.

    I hope this is a troll, because sword dagger staff is not the build being discussed in this thread. YIKES. LITERAL CRINGE. It's usually a good idea to read what the thread is about before responding.

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    Go back to the first comment...

    READ, now u understand where talking about the video that was posted, as the numbers clearly show....

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.
    I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

    Hitting .25s in a game where the only thing faster is instant cast skills, is not "average" gameplay, especially when those .25s can be covered by additional evade frames and you have to guess if it will or not. It's funny to me that I've never EVER heard of the GOD Highlie in any tournaments, any leaderboard, any lan, nothing. Where you been mr GOD of reaction times?

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Go back to the first comment...

    READ, now u understand where talking about the video that was posted, as the numbers clearly show....

    LOL I am the OP and the one who posted the video. The video is a thief just spamming everything using a build that has less survivability than the real deal (smoke screen says hi). In a real match, you aren't spamming everything, that prolongs the on node time of the thief by magnitudes.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.
    I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

    ??? let's talk about the fact that you're completely wrong lol... the jumping staff 3 trick removed the punish frames from the evades so the only time you could hit them was the literal pixel they touched the ground which technically could've been covered if they pressed staff 3 + jump against as soon as they landed (or they could just spam the buttons)

    If you were hitting these staff thieves consistently on 100-200 ping you're either lying or the thieves you were fighting did NOT know how to play the build properly

    An (11k health!) staff thief tanked 4 out of the 5 Team USA members for 20 seconds during the monthly finals and got out alive without an issue then proceeded to win several 1v1s over the course of the match against skilled/experienced duelists.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/496848054?t=01h02m11s

    This is just a case of players who know what they're talking about trying to get this fixed literally months in advance but Anet didn't listen and look what happened! It got abused and won a monthly AT. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    Unpopular opinion but idc: there NEEDS to be more anet partners on NA that stream the monthly, jebro has very little idea what he is talking about while casting the monthly, a gold 2/3 PoV should not be the primary depiction of the monthly AT with some of the most skilled players in the game. Not specifically because or for that, it would be great visibility for the game for additional streams with additional PoVs on monthly tournaments.

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.
    I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

    Hitting .25s in a game where the only thing faster is instant cast skills, is not "average" gameplay, especially when those .25s can be covered by additional evade frames and you have to guess if it will or not. It's funny to me that I've never EVER heard of the GOD Highlie in any tournaments, any leaderboard, any lan, nothing. Where you been mr GOD of reaction times?

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Go back to the first comment...

    READ, now u understand where talking about the video that was posted, as the numbers clearly show....

    LOL I am the OP and the one who posted the video. The video is a thief just spamming everything using a build that has less survivability than the real deal (smoke screen says hi). In a real match, you aren't spamming everything, that prolongs the on node time of the thief by magnitudes.

    ...And he's not doing what all video? jump 3 cancel. which is what the original comment is about. Don't get salty because your so used to being carried you believe your a "God", I've never claimed to be good, but if your really intrested and lucky you can find out if Anya records, get him to waste his time looking through recordings. and eventally u will see him fight be the last time i played.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.
    I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

    ??? let's talk about the fact that you're completely wrong lol... the jumping staff 3 trick removed the punish frames from the evades so the only time you could hit them was the literal pixel they touched the ground which technically could've been covered if they pressed staff 3 + jump against as soon as they landed (or they could just spam the buttons)

    If you were hitting these staff thieves consistently on 100-200 ping you're either lying or the thieves you were fighting did NOT know how to play the build properly

    An (11k health!) staff thief tanked 4 out of the 5 Team USA members for 20 seconds during the monthly finals and got out alive without an issue then proceeded to win several 1v1s over the course of the match against skilled/experienced duelists.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/496848054?t=01h02m11s

    This is just a case of players who know what they're talking about trying to get this fixed literally months in advance but Anet didn't listen and look what happened! It got abused and won a monthly AT. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    diffrent video.

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Highlie.7641 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.
    I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

    Hitting .25s in a game where the only thing faster is instant cast skills, is not "average" gameplay, especially when those .25s can be covered by additional evade frames and you have to guess if it will or not. It's funny to me that I've never EVER heard of the GOD Highlie in any tournaments, any leaderboard, any lan, nothing. Where you been mr GOD of reaction times?

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Go back to the first comment...

    READ, now u understand where talking about the video that was posted, as the numbers clearly show....

    LOL I am the OP and the one who posted the video. The video is a thief just spamming everything using a build that has less survivability than the real deal (smoke screen says hi). In a real match, you aren't spamming everything, that prolongs the on node time of the thief by magnitudes.

    ...And he's not doing what all video? jump 3 cancel. which is what the original comment is about. Don't get salty because your so used to being carried you believe your a "God", I've never claimed to be good, but if your really intrested and lucky you can find out if Anya records, get him to waste his time looking through recordings. and eventally u will see him fight be the last time i played.

    lmfao, I'm the one who posted vods of anya in the first thread I made about staff staff thief BACK IN JULY, I regularly play against anya and co. in AT's and ranked. You don't claim to be good BUT, "this is average gameplay" "I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem" "i guess that's much to complicated"

    Are you implying that 4 members of team USA were playing below average when they 4v1'd lance's staff staff thief and did absolutely nothing to him? The same thief who then went on to win multiple 1v1s and the game over the team who has won for almost 2 years straight?

    Are you just simply a better player than them? hmmmmm

    Let's not forget that you can't even identify a jump staff 3 when it's right in front of you. Count how many times he does it in the clip, I dare you LOL.

    Bro just stop while you are WAY behind...

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtisticFairJamBlargNaut

    Since hitting the number marked 2 and looking at the video right above my comment is rocket science....

    Nice rant though.

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtisticFairJamBlargNaut

    Since hitting the number marked 2 and looking at the video right above my comment is rocket science....

    Nice rant though.

    Again, I made the clip, I posted the clip, I know what's in it......
    Please count for us, all of the jump staff 3s.......................................

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    i wouldn't waste my time on something so obvious let alone for a child that "DARES you".

    I'm sorry i offended your masturbation idols kiddo, you happy now?

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    i wouldn't waste my time on something so obvious let alone for a child that "DARES you".

    I'm sorry i offended your masturbation idols kiddo, you happy now?

    I'll do it for you, there are 14 jump staff 3's.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Vicariuz.1605

    What @Highlie.7641 is saying is that he/she would be able to kill the staff thief 1v1 way more easily than the 4 stack of Team USA members (3 of which are playing high DPS builds: rev, holo, and power mes) could in a 4v1.

    Oh, and he/she is also saying that the entirety of Team USA is below average because they couldn't hit the staff thief during it's "punish frames."

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Vicariuz.1605

    What @Highlie.7641 is saying is that he/she would be able to kill the staff thief 1v1 way more easily than the 4 stack of Team USA members (3 of which are playing high DPS builds: rev, holo, and power mes) could in a 4v1.

    Oh, and he/she is also saying that the entirety of Team USA is below average because they couldn't hit the staff thief during it's "punish frames."

    It wasn't all team USA was it? Unless Malediktus, God of PvP, self professed silver player who has difficulty dodging anything under a 1s cast time has suddenly become skilled enough to qualify being taken seriously on that team.

    Though if you have any evidence saying the person behind the account was different to the owner I'm sure CS would love to see it :)

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