New Generation Roamers lack the Bravery of the Old Guards - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New Generation Roamers lack the Bravery of the Old Guards

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  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Also, being that you are on the map looking at T3 camps, why are you not taking them? Is this another case of "this is a problem!!.....For someone else to fix"?

    I tried a few times alone. But always got killed by NPCs.
    Too tough alone to take a T3 camp.
    I asked for help.
    Sometimes people help me. Sometimes no one responds.
    But my issue is, why did we allow it to reach T3 in the first place.
    Why isn't anyone trying to cut supplies.
    I am sad.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While I understand that the environment is vastly different now and favors the defenders, it shouldn't deter us from roaming deep in enemy lands.
    Bring the challenge you know.
    I still think the new generation roamers need to be braver.
    Nothing stopped old guards like QQ or vT or YUM from roaming in enemy lands even now.

    What I've seen in recent times is:
    A supply camp in friendly area is taken. Lets say Umberglade camp in EBG.
    A group of roamers go to take the camp back. Myself included.
    After the camp is taken, I ride north north into Orges area and enter the enemy side to take their supply camp (Pangloss camp).
    But the rest of the group don't.
    They teleport back to keep.
    Or they run back to the middle area and stand around waiting for some action to happen.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

    This is just sad.

    I'm pretty sure it was myself and a friend whom you paid. Was it Danelon a month or two ago? We split the 2g 50/50 hahaha

    Reason being is because eternal battlegrounds is simply torture to roam on because of marked. Its literally impossible to go anywhere without being jumped by a 5 man gank squad after being pinged on the map. Clean fights are impossible because enemies just swarm your location before you can down one or two opponents. Its simply impossible to travel anywhere without getting marked and swarmed.

    Roamers roam in BL's enemy territory all the time because its actually possible to avoid the marked garbage. But a lot of us avoid EB like the plague because unless you're running with 5+ people you're gonna have a bad time. Mounts + Marked = constantly ganked. Has nothing to do with courage. We only have so much leisure time to spend and enjoy. We choose not to spend that time getting ganked by 6-7 people while duo roaming.

    Anet do something about marked seriously. Make it only work once it detects 10 or more enemies around a sentry or tower. Just do something please.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Doug.4930 said:
    Anet do something about marked seriously. Make it only work once it detects 10 or more enemies around a sentry or tower. Just do something please.

    The sentries are really tame for this aspect, its the towers with their perma omni-vision thats the issue. On DBL its even worse as towers literally use two balloons.

    Which incidently was the first thing we complained about when they added them, Anet never listened. It degraded the role of the scout to... nothing. IMO this upgrade shouldnt be passive, but rather one that gives like 5m of marked on 20m cd or something. Something you use if the tower is under attack.

    Or alternativly, this passive tactivator would make the patrolling guards actual sentries. That way players can kill them and find gaps in the visibility and use roamers to take out patrols ahead of the zerg.

    There are so many ideas for this but nope... Anet went with:

    SPLADAM EYE OF SAURON EVERYWHERE, ENJOY!

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @SoV.5139 said:
    I do, but its usually the Gandhi from Civ. B)

    its funny when he declares war on you for no reason lol.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

    This is just sad.

    I'm pretty sure it was myself and a friend whom you paid. Was it Danelon a month or two ago? We split the 2g 50/50 hahaha

    I don't recall his name but I think he was a white furred charr from the guild HD, and using a unique short-bow ranger build that is pretty tough.
    He beat me 3-0 in a duel at Armistice Bastion recently and I'm just glad I didn't put anymore gold on the line :'(

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    For the past few weeks, I have logged into WvW to see Tier 3 enemy supply camps in EBG and Borderlands.

    This would have been a rare sight in the past when roamers would have gone deep into enemy lands to take their camps.
    It wasn't easy to tier up a supply camp.

    Now? Tier 3 Supply Camps are everywhere.
    We got them, enemies got them, everyone got them.

    And the reason is because our new generation roamers lack the bravery to roam in enemy lands.
    Whether solo, duo or party, they mostly roam in home owned territories only.
    Enter the enemy lands? Rare.

    I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

    This is just sad.

    Just earlier I watched an old guard roaming guild QQ bravely roaming in enemy territories and fighting outnumbered.
    This is what it means to roam bravely and freely.

    New Generation roamers need to learn this from the old guards.

    What new generation? We're down to the dregs here. It's not a question of bravery. It's not the roamers being green. And even if it somehow was, who cares? It's not worth the frustration to show up for dailies, let alone a protracted gaming session in wvw as a roamer-A.K.A. the least fun you could ever have this side of smashing your genitalia with a rubber mallet.

    This game mode is abandon-ware. All the big names at the company have jumped ship. What's more, even before they left they didn't care about WvW or the people playing it. They fobbed it off on some guy for two years while they planned their exit from the company while communicating with their fan base as little as humanly possible -that's how much they cared.

    As a roamer/scout there's no reason to be brave and take one for the team when the team isn't much of one any more. It's literally thirty seconds of a blob's time to flip one of those camps even fully-upgraded. If they go that long uncontested it's because nobody gives a toss.

    There's no use trying to guilt people into doing it either. They just don't care and I, for one, don't blame them one bit for feeling that way.

    To hell with this mode. To hell with this game. Hope's for suckers. And hope for this game is for suckers who got fooled not just once but three times. The sort of dupes just itching for their chances to bend over and to say, 'Fourth time's the charm! Hit me! Take my money! Because I'm so so damned sad that even my life is meme-worthy!'

    Or.. You know... Just ignore this. Stick it out. Soldier on. Stand firm. Do it for server pride. Do it for the children. Do it for luncheon meat. Or inertia. Or an in-game achievement -or something. Whatever.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

    I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

    I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

    I understand, and to a point I agree. As time goes on I find less and less roamers that purposefully seek challenging fights and instead go for what ever's fastest and easiest. The state of WvW and how it has evolved promotes that attitude and the players don't help much to change it, be it roamer or pug.

    I think the whole "ganker" thing is a blameless perspective imposed on who ever was the victim. It feels better to make excuses than it does to accept mistakes and it's harder to avoid the temptation of vengeance than it is to avoid the person(s) you're frustrated with. Maybe that's just me projecting and how I feel on days I'm not in the best mood, but from what I've seen others say or what others have said directly to me, this is the conclusion I come to.

    Ultimately, the game is what you make it. Maybe wanting to kill those who have wronged you is the motivation you need to keep playing and those you hate most should be thanked for giving you a reason to keep signing on. Or maybe they ruin your experience because your losses, especially when they come with humiliation, outweigh the pleasure of victory when you defeat them or wipe a blob with your own. I don't know, there are too many possibilities to consider them all.

    I'm reading way too deep in to a video game here...
    I'm just trying to make the point that if everyone sees each other as deserving of humiliation or a bad reputation, then eventually everyone is going to treat each other like garbage regardless.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Hate me if it makes you feel better ... ♫

  • @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

    I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

    I understand, and to a point I agree. As time goes on I find less and less roamers that purposefully seek challenging fights and instead go for what ever's fastest and easiest. The state of WvW and how it has evolved promotes that attitude and the players don't help much to change it, be it roamer or pug.

    I think the whole "ganker" thing is a blameless perspective imposed on who ever was the victim. It feels better to make excuses than it does to accept mistakes and it's harder to avoid the temptation of vengeance than it is to avoid the person(s) you're frustrated with. Maybe that's just me projecting and how I feel on days I'm not in the best mood, but from what I've seen others say or what others have said directly to me, this is the conclusion I come to.

    Ultimately, the game is what you make it. Maybe wanting to kill those who have wronged you is the motivation you need to keep playing and those you hate most should be thanked for giving you a reason to keep signing on. Or maybe they ruin your experience because your losses, especially when they come with humiliation, outweigh the pleasure of victory when you defeat them or wipe a blob with your own. I don't know, there are too many possibilities to consider them all.

    I'm reading way too deep in to a video game here...
    I'm just trying to make the point that if everyone sees each other as deserving of humiliation or a bad reputation, then eventually everyone is going to treat each other like garbage regardless.

    I can only speak for myself when i say i feel kinda frustrating when im roaming...i love to theorycraft and tryout new builds and have enjoyed that till short after pof release...ive made a start for the Harrier firebrand build, Brought in the Hammer vanilla guard, started as one of the first to run meditrapper in PVP again

    Anyway i wanted to proove i barely do that anymore...Being creatieve...IT has no use to theorycraft because certain builds and people running around with the same builds for years...the build that's the strongest for the class...making me forced to run the most cheesy dh build there is (yeah meditrapper is easiest guardbuild but still requires more active play then most meta roaming builds like war, soulbeast, boonbeast, mirage etc.)

    I feel this bores the Heck out of me since the only thing on Guardian thats been buffed usefully last 3-5 patches is true shot and deflecting shot...which did fine on their original stuff( true shot got to 1500 range and deflecting shot no longer double damage on projectile destroy but got 80% damage boost on default).

    The other changes on guard are Just really random and feel stale. Even couldnt enjoy burn firebrand/guard because IT feels really passive...

    Im not stating guard is in a bad spot; on the contrary i mean there's no diversity in what to fight and even most of those builds hardcounter on the cheesiest kitten i can run (meditrapper vs holo, ranger and spellbreaker)

    The meta is still and maybe Done evolving because there seems no counter to certain play and i dont even bother to fight a spellbreaker who can oneshot me with 3 skills on his bar, his dodgeroll that hits harder (and unblockable) then half my skills and can be immune to my damage 16/20 seconds. Its Just not fun for me anymore

  • @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

    I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

    I understand, and to a point I agree. As time goes on I find less and less roamers that purposefully seek challenging fights and instead go for what ever's fastest and easiest. The state of WvW and how it has evolved promotes that attitude and the players don't help much to change it, be it roamer or pug.

    I think the whole "ganker" thing is a blameless perspective imposed on who ever was the victim. It feels better to make excuses than it does to accept mistakes and it's harder to avoid the temptation of vengeance than it is to avoid the person(s) you're frustrated with. Maybe that's just me projecting and how I feel on days I'm not in the best mood, but from what I've seen others say or what others have said directly to me, this is the conclusion I come to.

    Ultimately, the game is what you make it. Maybe wanting to kill those who have wronged you is the motivation you need to keep playing and those you hate most should be thanked for giving you a reason to keep signing on. Or maybe they ruin your experience because your losses, especially when they come with humiliation, outweigh the pleasure of victory when you defeat them or wipe a blob with your own. I don't know, there are too many possibilities to consider them all.

    I'm reading way too deep in to a video game here...
    I'm just trying to make the point that if everyone sees each other as deserving of humiliation or a bad reputation, then eventually everyone is going to treat each other like garbage regardless.

    I can only speak for myself when i say i feel kinda frustrating when im roaming...i love to theorycraft and tryout new builds and have enjoyed that till short after pof release...ive made a start for the Harrier firebrand build, Brought in the Hammer vanilla guard, started as one of the first to run meditrapper in PVP again

    Anyway i wanted to proove i barely do that anymore...Being creatieve...IT has no use to theorycraft because certain builds and people running around with the same builds for years...the build that's the strongest for the class...making me forced to run the most cheesy dh build there is (yeah meditrapper is easiest guardbuild but still requires more active play then most meta roaming builds like war, soulbeast, boonbeast, mirage etc.)

    I feel this bores the Heck out of me since the only thing on Guardian thats been buffed usefully last 3-5 patches is true shot and deflecting shot...which did fine on their original stuff( true shot got to 1500 range and deflecting shot no longer double damage on projectile destroy but got 80% damage boost on default).

    The other changes on guard are Just really random and feel stale. Even couldnt enjoy burn firebrand/guard because IT feels really passive...

    Im not stating guard is in a bad spot; on the contrary i mean there's no diversity in what to fight and even most of those builds hardcounter on the cheesiest kitten i can run (meditrapper vs holo, ranger and spellbreaker)

    The meta is still and maybe Done evolving because there seems no counter to certain play and i dont even bother to fight a spellbreaker who can oneshot me with 3 skills on his bar, his dodgeroll that hits harder (and unblockable) then half my skills and can be immune to my damage 16/20 seconds. Its Just not fun for me anymore

    I find the most unfortunate thing is that so many people prefer to give in and play what's strongest rather than finding ways to beat it or challenging themselves with fighting it. I understand losing isn't fun, especially when you feel your opponent only won because their build is OP/more forgiving. But if everyone joins in on that and plays what's most broken, it ruins the fun for everyone.

    IMO, if people consider something to be over performing they should avoid playing it rather than playing excessively. All it does is create a toxic environment where no one enjoys themselves except for the most stubborn of us.

    In PvP and large scale WvW this is completely different. You want to play what's best because you want your team to be efficient. In small scale and solo WvW, losing has an extremely minimal effect on your world's score so it shouldn't matter what you choose to play. But unfortunately, more people care about winning than they do about improving, so everyone flocks to what ever's currently strongest.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Hate me if it makes you feel better ... ♫

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    People use the tools they are given. The only difference between now and seven years ago are the "tools" provided -- there's a lot more mobility (among other aspects of power creep) than there used to be.
    It used to just be thieves (and to a limited degree warriors) with the mobility to run away, for everyone else once they initiated the fight they were committed. Now Thieves, rangers, mesmers, warriors, engineers and to a lesser degree elementalists , guardians and revenants all have numerous teleports and gap closers that allow them to be quite fast at closing and/or creating gaps and the mount simply compounds that.

    If you want to equate "lacking bravery" with the mobility powercreep and the "old guard" with the builds players used before HoT then I could agree with the assessment, but I don't think players are inherently less willing to fight now than they were several years ago. Just the opposite, I'm sure a lot of players would be willing to see cuts to the mobility on their own main profession(s) if mobility was cut across the board. And it has to be cut across the board. (Yes, thieves included.)

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭

    Hello !

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 : for someone who had scruples reading too deep in a game, you're going deeper and deeper ;-)

    That said, you're actually digging in the questions of what are people looking for when they play ? and what is fun ? which are tightly related. I'm not sure I perfectly understood :

    IMO, if people consider something to be over performing they should avoid playing it rather than playing excessively. All it does is create a toxic environment where no one enjoys themselves except for the most stubborn of us.

    Do you mean that if a player finds an OP build, that player shouldn't play it for the toxic environment reasons you stated ? As much as I agree with that idea, I also have to admit it's terribly naive it could happen. As long as it's allowed, players will take the easiest path. And by allowed, I'm not meaning some kind of law, but the fact that the tools are available, which is the balance issue.

    In PvP and large scale WvW this is completely different. You want to play what's best because you want your team to be efficient. In small scale and solo WvW, losing has an extremely minimal effect on your world's score so it shouldn't matter what you choose to play. But unfortunately, more people care about winning than they do about improving, so everyone flocks to what ever's currently strongest.

    True. As much as there's a pleasure in learning and improving, players mostly care about winning, mostly care about not losing, eventhough the latter doesn't imply anything game-related (rewards, score, etc.). This shows where the enjoyment is : being god-like and almighty. This also show that losing is strongly not enjoyable in WvW. It usually never is, but in my opinion, a loss could be more bearable if players had the feeling there was a chance (this is why gambles are so addictive, btw), they weren't helpless, or that the fight was fair (whatever fair means for anyone), and I'm not even talking about some toxic behaviours that ANet can't do much about. Not all fights are that way, of course, but that feelings tend to become more and more prevalent on the losing side.

    To me, improving the "losing a fight" experience would actually help things, and maybe even be an incent to learn and improve to increase the odds to win a fight.

    I find the most unfortunate thing is that so many people prefer to give in and play what's strongest rather than finding ways to beat it or challenging themselves with fighting it. I understand losing isn't fun, especially when you feel your opponent only won because their build is OP/more forgiving. But if everyone joins in on that and plays what's most broken, it ruins the fun for everyone.

    I agree. Bolded part is the key, to me. It's very complex to make everyone happy and enjoy a game, and even more when there's a notion of competition, which means someone has to lose, yet enjoy the process.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThomasC.1056 said:
    It's very complex to make everyone happy and enjoy a game, and even more when there's a notion of competition, which means someone has to lose, yet enjoy the process.

    Personally I get excited when I lose.
    Because when I lose, I know that person is good enough to defeat me and is someone I need to overcome.
    I like fights where my opponent pummels me and I will keep seeking them out for fights until I steal a win.

    For example, this EV guild mesmer here has beaten me for 5 years straight.
    I added him and tracked him frequently using the mini map for fights.
    There was once I tracked and fought him repeatedly almost 50 times in a day and lost all the 50 times lol.
    I had pretty much given up trying to add him to my graveyard.
    But one day I bumped into him again and won...
    Sometimes when you let go, you'll get what you want XD

    Another example, this smurf ranger here thrashed me in the first fight and got me super excited.
    I thought he was just a low rank nub but he was very good.
    Throwing out stuns, bash, knock-backs, take-downs left and right.
    I was totally locked down.
    Eventually I tracked and defeated him on the 3rd try after I changed to a higher stun-break/stability build.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    Just as an example. I am solo flipping the camp near a full tiered Bay on enemy homeland. I had tagged bay to prevent use of the waypoint.An enemy arrives on a warclaw as I am in the camp. I expect him to come and fight before I kill the rest of the guards and Dolyaks but he just sits nearby to watch.

    He only comes into the camp to contest when 2 others on his team arrive both on warclaws. They can get on chat , say "someone flipping swc" and have time to wait because of the added speed warclaw provides.

    That's exactly what I would do. Because I know I, as a main zergling have neither the build (something I could easily change), not the skill (not so easily changed) to fight and win against proficient roamer. The game also does not give me anything for going into a fight that I cannot win. The only thing I can hope for is a reward for failing to defend a camp, but I don't really need to go into the fight for that. Hitting once or twice and getting out of there is enough.
    Don't blame the Warclaw, don't blame the players: We all only do what works, defenders and attackers. If anything shed light on the game mechanics, that don't reward going into a fight. If there's no incentive, why would you do it?

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • len.7809len.7809 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @len.7809 said:
    Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

    Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

    The rest of your statements I can get behind however

    Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @len.7809 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @len.7809 said:
    Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

    Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

    The rest of your statements I can get behind however

    Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

    Dont remember saying anything about me porting to spawn bud, your assumption. I have enough mobility that if they did dismount me, I can usually get away or reposition myself should I stay to fight. That is fun to me. Making people think they have me right where they want me, then boom...down they go or away I go.

    Even if outnumbered, i may still engage to see if I can down one and how fast. Bonus points if I get a kill and male it out alive. It's the thrill that I enjoy and will continue to enjoy. That's why I wvw to begin with. Fight to defend what's ours, fight to take what should be and fight to make sure what's ours stays ours or go down trying

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭

    @len.7809 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @len.7809 said:
    Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

    Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

    The rest of your statements I can get behind however

    Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

    Fun for whom ? It may not be fun for you to have your prey TP to safety, but the reason why the behaviour happens is your prey may be trying to avoid a fight that doesn't qualify as fun in its own conception.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.

  • @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Also, being that you are on the map looking at T3 camps, why are you not taking them? Is this another case of "this is a problem!!.....For someone else to fix"?

    I tried a few times alone. But always got killed by NPCs.
    Too tough alone to take a T3 camp.
    I asked for help.
    Sometimes people help me. Sometimes no one responds.
    But my issue is, why did we allow it to reach T3 in the first place.
    Why isn't anyone trying to cut supplies.
    I am sad.

    Then you need to learn how to solo cap, solo capping a T3 camp is easy, way easier than solo capping a tower.

    The same question you can ask yourself, why did you allow it to get T3?

    In most cases the people on the map are not roamers, as roamers are very map aware, the people you are talking about are people who are waiting for tag to do something or break something open for them to go ktrain with. Also, as someone said above, EBG is somewhere most roamers avoid, even myself I tend to stick to BL's for the simple fact that EBG is very crowded, if you get into a fight with anyone, even open field, give it a few seconds and it will turn into a 2vs1 or more. Also avoiding marked is very hard with few exceptions on EBG, so you either have to go WAY around right in the path of where the enemy exits around their keeps and have people chase you, or you get marked and have 6+ people show up to the camp before you can cap because of how fast mount run speed is.

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    While I understand that the environment is vastly different now and favors the defenders, it shouldn't deter us from roaming deep in enemy lands.
    Bring the challenge you know.
    I still think the new generation roamers need to be braver.
    Nothing stopped old guards like QQ or vT or YUM from roaming in enemy lands even now.

    What I've seen in recent times is:
    A supply camp in friendly area is taken. Lets say Umberglade camp in EBG.
    A group of roamers go to take the camp back. Myself included.
    After the camp is taken, I ride north north into Orges area and enter the enemy side to take their supply camp (Pangloss camp).
    But the rest of the group don't.
    They teleport back to keep.
    Or they run back to the middle area and stand around waiting for some action to happen.

    Because those people are probably running with tag, but got killed and wanted to do something before running back, or the blob is trying to get into something etc etc and they are just buying time to keep participation up. Lots of times these people sit in the keep waiting for a camp or sentry to flip and that is all they do. These are not roamers. If they are roamers, they are probably also just keeping up participation while looking for fights, they don't care about PPT or what tier something is, so long as they get some fights. Big time the older players who have been dealing with this ever declining game mode, after years of the same, you will start to understand the only interesting thing about the mode are the fights.

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

    I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

    People go after bags, the fact you are out solo often has little to do with it. Roaming has little action and very few who are real roamers, so when people see someone, they chase. With warclaw even more people run, making gank squads more popular. Blobs gank far more than roamers do, the problem is that roamers just deal with being ganked by 10-15 that pull off the blob to kill them fighting a solo or capping a sentry. While those in the blob come here to cry about roamers because they have no idea how to fight. Sure, you have trolls who roam, and you have trolls in blobs, I can't tell you the times I have been steam rolled by 10+ that pulled off a zerg to kill me, throwing siege and sending PMs to me after.

    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

    This is just sad.

    I'm pretty sure it was myself and a friend whom you paid. Was it Danelon a month or two ago? We split the 2g 50/50 hahaha

    I don't recall his name but I think he was a white furred charr from the guild HD, and using a unique short-bow ranger build that is pretty tough.
    He beat me 3-0 in a duel at Armistice Bastion recently and I'm just glad I didn't put anymore gold on the line :'(

    Yea that was us. Happy to keep BL camps flipped, but I'm not going to the eternal gankgrounds until something is done about marked.

    Unless we're paid hahaha. Seriously though its legit the worst place to roam properly (4-5 people is not roaming).

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights

    Too bad then that everyone except you react to a gank with "lol noob kitten kittening coward kitten you suck kitten kittens I would kitten your kitten in 1v1 kittens".

    This is WvW. There are roamers that accept any danger and take any odds... And then there are duelist that choose to visit the eqvivalent of the handicap toilet.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights.

    I've done that, especially to ones that seem to have an extra interest to see me dead for whatever reason, and same results, very little would take me up on the offer. Yes I've had a few that have taken up the offer and we've had some good fights and in the end we barely bother each other afterwards because of the respect gained, but it seems few and far in between. But I've also run into players even from a famous guild hunt me down with 2 others and when I asked them they didn't want to acknowledge it was even a 1v3 on multiple occasions, this seems to be the situation more often now, which is a shame.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights

    Too bad then that everyone except you react to a gank with "lol noob kitten kittening coward kitten you suck kitten kittens I would kitten your kitten in 1v1 kittens".

    This is WvW. There are roamers that accept any danger and take any odds... And then there are duelist that choose to visit the eqvivalent of the handicap toilet.

    "want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1"

    Seriously, I'm not sure where the idea that roaming = dueling came from. Someone enlighten me, beacuse I'm fairly sure it was never about literal dueling.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights

    Too bad then that everyone except you react to a gank with "lol noob kitten kittening coward kitten you suck kitten kittens I would kitten your kitten in 1v1 kittens".

    This is WvW. There are roamers that accept any danger and take any odds... And then there are duelist that choose to visit the eqvivalent of the handicap toilet.

    I get those PMs all the time. Often some kind of excuse or more salt, some I understand, if I see a bag, I am going for it, it's WvW, red is dead. However when I get those PMs I ask if they would like to 1vs1 as well, as that seems to be the most common reason for the PM because I am "a kitten that doesn't know how to play", so I will again ask if they want to 1vs1 me, often no reply. I have found that asking if they want to 1vs1 is the quickest way to stop salt PMs lol. I think most people will only trash talk, and most will not 1vs1, so it catches them off guard when the person offers to.

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights.

    I've done that, especially to ones that seem to have an extra interest to see me dead for whatever reason, and same results, very little would take me up on the offer. Yes I've had a few that have taken up the offer and we've had some good fights and in the end we barely bother each other afterwards because of the respect gained, but it seems few and far in between. But I've also run into players even from a famous guild hunt me down with 2 others and when I asked them they didn't want to acknowledge it was even a 1v3 on multiple occasions, this seems to be the situation more often now, which is a shame.

    Most of those are not really roamers, but gankers that ALWAYS have a party for protection....They just don't like to admit it.

    I have no issues with that mind you, I don't even like the word gankers, as it's used far to often for things that are not, but even the real gankers, I don't have issue with. It's open world PvP, I have PMed a few, once after getting 8vs1ed I PMed the first guy "Good GvG", he found it pretty funny at least. Same when I am dueling, and a group comes by and kills me, I just WP and go back, when so many people get super salty about it, others have no responsibility to respect duels, it's nice when they do, but I don't judge when they don't.

    Just take the good fights you can get. Salty people who can't fight will always be around, you can only hope that some day they learn it's not worth it or actually get into skilled combat. And when they don't fight me 1vs1 and keep killing me in out numbered fights, I consider it a win, because they know they need more players to kill me, take it as a complement.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Most of those are not really roamers, but gankers that ALWAYS have a party for protection....They just don't like to admit it.

    I think that using "most" and "always" in statements like that is highly biased and not really true. Sure, there are those players that stick to their group and try to fight you only as long as their friends are really close just to immediately run away the moment their party moves, but I don't think those people really call themselves "roamers" (or even anything else). There's also a choice on your side whether you want to try to pick out that single scrub (at which point meh downstate) or just leave them alone and look for other targets. Nothing really to complain about here, it's their "right" to hide their insecurities behind their teammates. And, again, roaming was never an equivalent of dueling.

  • I still roam around on my own and flip camps as I cross their paths. I will admit to staying and fighting defenders at all but N camp when the defender doesn't actually engage. They're just buying time for a gank squad and I'm not keen on just hanging around to make their job easy.

  • I think its more due to people just not caring anymore.

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights

    Too bad then that everyone except you react to a gank with "lol noob kitten kittening coward kitten you suck kitten kittens I would kitten your kitten in 1v1 kittens".

    This is WvW. There are roamers that accept any danger and take any odds... And then there are duelist that choose to visit the eqvivalent of the handicap toilet.

    "want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1"

    Seriously, I'm not sure where the idea that roaming = dueling came from. Someone enlighten me, beacuse I'm fairly sure it was never about literal dueling.

    Roaming has always been about small scale fights, people who roam are looking for kills without having to fight in a zerg, where you can feel your own skill and it's impact. Roaming is mostly used in MMO's, however from LoL to WoW they mean many things (all different combat systems), however they are all about PvP, and mostly PvP outside of the "normal" areas, outside of the zerg etc. Roaming can also be the preparation of an area for attack, what is called softening a target, however that is not done anymore, no one preps, no one does preguild run prep, everyone gets on for a ktrain and bangs their head on walls and then cries about siege OP.

    And yes, before anyone asks, most games ganking is considered a part of roaming.

    Roaming is about those fights, roaming doesn't mean 1vs1 only, nor was that said anywhere, the only one to mention "roaming=dueling" is you. However roamers will more often than not accept a 1vs1 fight as they are looking for fights. If all you do is run around capping camps and avoid fighting, you are not a roamer, you are a PvEer.

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Most of those are not really roamers, but gankers that ALWAYS have a party for protection....They just don't like to admit it.

    I think that using "most" and "always" in statements like that is highly biased and not really true. Sure, there are those players that stick to their group and try to fight you only as long as their friends are really close just to immediately run away the moment their party moves, but I don't think those people really call themselves "roamers" (or even anything else). There's also a choice on your side whether you want to try to pick out that single scrub (at which point meh downstate) or just leave them alone and look for other targets. Nothing really to complain about here, it's their "right" to hide their insecurities behind their teammates. And, again, roaming was never an equivalent of dueling.

    How is it biased? Most people will not fight 1vs1, this has been true since beta, there is a small subset of people in WvW that like roaming, and most of those you will find will be far more likely to duel, or even be the ones to ask for one. They are often in roaming/fight guilds and will more often than not, be found fighting someone, when it's slow they tend to be in the south of the map, or around south sentry looking to duel.

    The others are not roamers, they are running in a group and are just taking opportunistic kills. If there is more than two of you, it's not roaming, you should be havocing with 3+. If you are not, then you are again just looking for opportunistic kills. Which again, there is nothing wrong with, killing the other side, by whatever means, is the point of the mode.

    I also never said they call them selves roamers. OTHER people are calling them that, all across this forum are people saying "5 roamers ganked me on my way back to the zerg" or the like. Anytime someone dies outside of a zerg (and even sometimes inside of one) people blame roamers as "dirty gankers". When in most cases they are people who never actually roam, and are not interested in fights that offer any kind of challenge.

    Rather than a discussion, you only seem to be concerned with being pedantic.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A lot of those "brave" roamers took all the time they wanted to pace themselves and feel out incoming players and areas. Even the older players I know on my server are feeling out WvW like it's new again because the population tide is finicky now, don't expect people to want to walk into a trap or be lured across the map if they don't look like an easy kill all day. Chase squad tails for now.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights

    Too bad then that everyone except you react to a gank with "lol noob kitten kittening coward kitten you suck kitten kittens I would kitten your kitten in 1v1 kittens".

    This is WvW. There are roamers that accept any danger and take any odds... And then there are duelist that choose to visit the eqvivalent of the handicap toilet.

    "want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1"

    Seriously, I'm not sure where the idea that roaming = dueling came from. Someone enlighten me, beacuse I'm fairly sure it was never about literal dueling.

    Roaming has always been about small scale fights, people who roam are looking for kills without having to fight in a zerg, where you can feel your own skill and it's impact. Roaming is mostly used in MMO's, however from LoL to WoW they mean many things (all different combat systems), however they are all about PvP, and mostly PvP outside of the "normal" areas, outside of the zerg etc. Roaming can also be the preparation of an area for attack, what is called softening a target, however that is not done anymore, no one preps, no one does preguild run prep, everyone gets on for a ktrain and bangs their head on walls and then cries about siege OP.

    And yes, before anyone asks, most games ganking is considered a part of roaming.

    Roaming is about those fights, roaming doesn't mean 1vs1 only, nor was that said anywhere, the only one to mention "roaming=dueling" is you. However roamers will more often than not accept a 1vs1 fight as they are looking for fights. If all you do is run around capping camps and avoid fighting, you are not a roamer, you are a PvEer.

    I literally quoted what I was commenting on.
    "want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1"

    PMing someone to "set up a 1v1" is a duel, it doesn't have that much to do with roaming, unless you literally plan to stop and ask your enemy if they are ready to engage you frontally with all their skills off cd before initiating a fight during roaming. I'm not the only one who mentioned it here as you claim, because I literally comment on that being in another post not written by me. On the other hand, I never said I think pve'ing camps is the definition of roaming, not even close so not sure where you're comming from with that remark. Roaming =/= dueling, pming someone asking to 1v1 has nothing to do with roaming.

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Most of those are not really roamers, but gankers that ALWAYS have a party for protection....They just don't like to admit it.

    I think that using "most" and "always" in statements like that is highly biased and not really true. Sure, there are those players that stick to their group and try to fight you only as long as their friends are really close just to immediately run away the moment their party moves, but I don't think those people really call themselves "roamers" (or even anything else). There's also a choice on your side whether you want to try to pick out that single scrub (at which point meh downstate) or just leave them alone and look for other targets. Nothing really to complain about here, it's their "right" to hide their insecurities behind their teammates. And, again, roaming was never an equivalent of dueling.

    How is it biased? Most people will not fight 1vs1, this has been true since beta, there is a small subset of people in WvW that like roaming, and most of those you will find will be far more likely to duel, or even be the ones to ask for one. They are often in roaming/fight guilds and will more often than not, be found fighting someone, when it's slow they tend to be in the south of the map, or around south sentry looking to duel.

    Well then, I must be playing a different game, because I have no problem with meeting roamers while roaming. I think it's biased, because you seem to isolate the cases I (and you) described and then come up with bold claim that most/all people do that. But they don't. Some players do that, others don't, that's all.

    The others are not roamers, they are running in a group and are just taking opportunistic kills. If there is more than two of you, it's not roaming, you should be havocing with 3+. If you are not, then you are again just looking for opportunistic kills. Which again, there is nothing wrong with, killing the other side, by whatever means, is the point of the mode.

    Your argument is again ("again" in relation to "pming for 1v1-duels") about fighting in a complete isolation, because somehow if it's not literally a 1v1, it's not roaming anymore. I disagree, just because they're not the only roamer around and you get jumped by someone (or jump on someone) doesn't magically nullify you roaming in wvw.
    Unless I completely misunderstood what you meant by what you said.

    I also never said they call them selves roamers. OTHER people are calling them that, all across this forum are people saying "5 roamers ganked me on my way back to the zerg" or the like. Anytime someone dies outside of a zerg (and even sometimes inside of one) people blame roamers as "dirty gankers". When in most cases they are people who never actually roam, and are not interested in fights that offer any kind of challenge.

    Might have misinterpreted what you wrote before.
    "Most of those are not really roamers, but gankers that ALWAYS have a party for protection....They just don't like to admit it." -I understood that part as in people that are interested in outnumbering their opponents "don't want to admit they're not roamers", as in still see themselves as roamers. If that's not what you were saying then np.

    Rather than a discussion, you only seem to be concerned with being pedantic.

    Not any more than you, though, so it should be ok. :)

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    And the reason is because our new generation roamers lack the bravery to roam in enemy lands.

    I would like to dispute this assertion. Let's examine some reasoning:

    Powercreep
    In all MMOs, there is an inevitable rise in powercreep. This means that without checks and balances, all games are in danger of becoming one-shot-kills games. This has happened to GW2. Roamers, who have (for the most part) always built to be as berserkery as possible, are now playing a game of chicken when they tease one another before entering combat - often you see people on mounts running in circles as they decide whether/when to engage.
    It's this one-shottery that means new and less twitchy players avoid combat with defenders. That's perfectly understandable.

    Warclaw
    With the new warclaw, it's also easier for enemies to travel to a camp and kill the attackers, so if you can't cap it very quicky, you're going to struggle. This means once again that you need berserkery builds.

    So there are reasons for not attacking camps that didn't exist at the start of the game.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights

    Too bad then that everyone except you react to a gank with "lol noob kitten kittening coward kitten you suck kitten kittens I would kitten your kitten in 1v1 kittens".

    This is WvW. There are roamers that accept any danger and take any odds... And then there are duelist that choose to visit the eqvivalent of the handicap toilet.

    "want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1"

    Seriously, I'm not sure where the idea that roaming = dueling came from. Someone enlighten me, beacuse I'm fairly sure it was never about literal dueling.

    Roaming has always been about small scale fights, people who roam are looking for kills without having to fight in a zerg, where you can feel your own skill and it's impact. Roaming is mostly used in MMO's, however from LoL to WoW they mean many things (all different combat systems), however they are all about PvP, and mostly PvP outside of the "normal" areas, outside of the zerg etc. Roaming can also be the preparation of an area for attack, what is called softening a target, however that is not done anymore, no one preps, no one does preguild run prep, everyone gets on for a ktrain and bangs their head on walls and then cries about siege OP.

    And yes, before anyone asks, most games ganking is considered a part of roaming.

    Roaming is about those fights, roaming doesn't mean 1vs1 only, nor was that said anywhere, the only one to mention "roaming=dueling" is you. However roamers will more often than not accept a 1vs1 fight as they are looking for fights. If all you do is run around capping camps and avoid fighting, you are not a roamer, you are a PvEer.

    I literally quoted what I was commenting on.
    "want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1"

    PMing someone to "set up a 1v1" is a duel, it doesn't have that much to do with roaming, unless you literally plan to stop and ask your enemy if they are ready to engage you frontally with all their skills off cd before initiating a fight during roaming. I'm not the only one who mentioned it here as you claim, because I literally comment on that being in another post not written by me. On the other hand, I never said I think pve'ing camps is the definition of roaming, not even close so not sure where you're comming from with that remark. Roaming =/= dueling, pming someone asking to 1v1 has nothing to do with roaming.

    Where did I say anything that you are talking about here? Where did I say roaming is only roaming if it's a strict agreed to duel?

    Matter of fact, my main example was about being killed outnumbered by roamers and trolls so why you keep circling back to an assumption you made, I have no idea. The statement about asking for a 1vs1 is in context of the conversation I was having with someone else, as most roamers will accept a duel request, big time if they are the ones who start the trash talking. The others will never accept a 1vs1, as they are not looking for fights, they are looking for easy kills and get so used to fighting people with greater numbers they start to think they are actually really good.

    I also never said that you said roaming is only flipping camps, again, you are being pedantic, you are reading everything in total isolation, however, this thread is about capping camps and roamers, as such everything me and the other people were talking about are in that context.

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Most of those are not really roamers, but gankers that ALWAYS have a party for protection....They just don't like to admit it.

    I think that using "most" and "always" in statements like that is highly biased and not really true. Sure, there are those players that stick to their group and try to fight you only as long as their friends are really close just to immediately run away the moment their party moves, but I don't think those people really call themselves "roamers" (or even anything else). There's also a choice on your side whether you want to try to pick out that single scrub (at which point meh downstate) or just leave them alone and look for other targets. Nothing really to complain about here, it's their "right" to hide their insecurities behind their teammates. And, again, roaming was never an equivalent of dueling.

    How is it biased? Most people will not fight 1vs1, this has been true since beta, there is a small subset of people in WvW that like roaming, and most of those you will find will be far more likely to duel, or even be the ones to ask for one. They are often in roaming/fight guilds and will more often than not, be found fighting someone, when it's slow they tend to be in the south of the map, or around south sentry looking to duel.

    Well then, I must be playing a different game, because I have no problem with meeting roamers while roaming. I think it's biased, because you seem to isolate the cases I (and you) described and then come up with bold claim that most/all people do that. But they don't. Some players do that, others don't, that's all.

    Where did I say roamers don't exist?

    The claim is not bold, most people in WvW are in the blob, and most people you PM in WvW wont even reply, and an even smaller percentage of that will ever accept a 1vs1. Or are you claiming that most people will accept a 1vs1? You are using very general statements of "claims" I have made that you are taking out of context to be hypertechnical about. Is this Reddit now?

    The others are not roamers, they are running in a group and are just taking opportunistic kills. If there is more than two of you, it's not roaming, you should be havocing with 3+. If you are not, then you are again just looking for opportunistic kills. Which again, there is nothing wrong with, killing the other side, by whatever means, is the point of the mode.

    Your argument is again ("again" in relation to "pming for 1v1-duels") about fighting in a complete isolation, because somehow if it's not literally a 1v1, it's not roaming anymore. I disagree, just because they're not the only roamer around and you get jumped by someone (or jump on someone) doesn't magically nullify you roaming in wvw.
    Unless I completely misunderstood what you meant by what you said.

    Where, yet again, did I say that anything that is not an agreed to 1vs1 is not roaming? Did you read my post or the person I was replying to? We were talking about the change in the game mode and how few roamers there are today, everyone just wants easy fights. How the same players who will throw siege are the first ones to run from a 1vs1 etc.

    Which again, falls back into the context of the thread of why people no longer cap T3 camps because people are looking for easy.

    I also never said they call them selves roamers. OTHER people are calling them that, all across this forum are people saying "5 roamers ganked me on my way back to the zerg" or the like. Anytime someone dies outside of a zerg (and even sometimes inside of one) people blame roamers as "dirty gankers". When in most cases they are people who never actually roam, and are not interested in fights that offer any kind of challenge.

    Might have misinterpreted what you wrote before.
    "Most of those are not really roamers, but gankers that ALWAYS have a party for protection....They just don't like to admit it." -I understood that part as in people that are interested in outnumbering their opponents "don't want to admit they're not roamers", as in still see themselves as roamers. If that's not what you were saying then np.

    They don't want to admit they are gankers, they are the people who are in every thread talking about "ganker" this and ganker that, yet are often the first ones to jump in on a gank, or squirrel off from a blob with 10+ others to kill one person. The person I was replying to was talking about the shift in people from roaming to gank squads, yet they will PM you or throw siege etc etc and when confronted, wont even admit to having just 3vs1 you, no less accept a 1vs1.

    Again, since there seems to be confusion, the offer of a 1vs1 is NOT because roaming is only 1vs1's, but because those people are the ones to start the siege throwing or trash talking PMs. They are the ones starting the conversation off with skill and combat, we are just offering a chance for them to show us how bad we really are, and in most cases it is never accepted. The roamers who are looking for fights in whatever form they come in however do accept them and often show respect after the duels and leave you alone unless you are actively attacking something. It's been an unspoken thing with roamers since I started playing the game.

    Rather than a discussion, you only seem to be concerned with being pedantic.

    Not any more than you, though, so it should be ok. :)

    How? Where?

    You quoted my posts talking about my reply to someone else outside of it's context of this thread and what we were talking about, you then asked to be "enlightened", and I gave a description of what we were talking about.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    I don't think anybody was ever brave. They either played builds they knew they could run away on, played builds that could win every 1v1 or just learned to not care if they died.

    The second part is very good actually.

    I'll jump on almost anything and try to fight it, who knows, maybe I'll win!

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThomasC.1056 said:

    @len.7809 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @len.7809 said:
    Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

    Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

    The rest of your statements I can get behind however

    Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

    Fun for whom ? It may not be fun for you to have your prey TP to safety, but the reason why the behaviour happens is your prey may be trying to avoid a fight that doesn't qualify as fun in its own conception.

    Its why i WP whenever i see someone coming towards me, i dont enjoy fighting players in this game anymore, the ganking and the one shot builds are annoying AF and kill all fun. Im not built to fight invuln Dragonhunters, Cheese deadeyes who run away as soon as they start loosing, and mesmers who you cant even lock onto, or druids. I dont have the reflexes to solo fight players. So i will keep WPing as soon as i see someone.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @ThomasC.1056 said:

    @len.7809 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @len.7809 said:
    Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

    Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

    The rest of your statements I can get behind however

    Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

    Fun for whom ? It may not be fun for you to have your prey TP to safety, but the reason why the behaviour happens is your prey may be trying to avoid a fight that doesn't qualify as fun in its own conception.

    Its why i WP whenever i see someone coming towards me, i dont enjoy fighting players in this game anymore, the ganking and the one shot builds are annoying AF and kill all fun. Im not built to fight invuln Dragonhunters, Cheese deadeyes who run away as soon as they start loosing, and mesmers who you cant even lock onto, or druids. I dont have the reflexes to solo fight players. So i will keep WPing as soon as i see someone.

    Druids? You mean boonbeasts?

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @ThomasC.1056 said:

    @len.7809 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @len.7809 said:
    Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

    Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

    The rest of your statements I can get behind however

    Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

    Fun for whom ? It may not be fun for you to have your prey TP to safety, but the reason why the behaviour happens is your prey may be trying to avoid a fight that doesn't qualify as fun in its own conception.

    Its why i WP whenever i see someone coming towards me, i dont enjoy fighting players in this game anymore, the ganking and the one shot builds are annoying AF and kill all fun. Im not built to fight invuln Dragonhunters, Cheese deadeyes who run away as soon as they start loosing, and mesmers who you cant even lock onto, or druids. I dont have the reflexes to solo fight players. So i will keep WPing as soon as i see someone.

    Druids? You mean boonbeasts?

    Sure, whatever the build is i really dont care about the proper name xD

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I find the most unfortunate thing is that so many people prefer to give in and play what's strongest rather than finding ways to beat it or challenging themselves with fighting it. I understand losing isn't fun, especially when you feel your opponent only won because their build is OP/more forgiving. But if everyone joins in on that and plays what's most broken, it ruins the fun for everyone.

    IMO, if people consider something to be over performing they should avoid playing it rather than playing excessively. All it does is create a toxic environment where no one enjoys themselves except for the most stubborn of us.

    In PvP and large scale WvW this is completely different. You want to play what's best because you want your team to be efficient. In small scale and solo WvW, losing has an extremely minimal effect on your world's score so it shouldn't matter what you choose to play. But unfortunately, more people care about winning than they do about improving, so everyone flocks to what ever's currently strongest.

    I agree with where your sentiments are coming from but intellectually I have to disagree. In a perfect world your suggestion might fly but we don't live, or play, in a perfect world. More, the environment hasn't necessarily been made toxic. It's ever been toxic in these sorts of game modes -toxic as a baseline because competition's involved. It only that much more so when the people in charge of maintaining balance don't seem to care.

    And they have to care about doing the job they're paid for because as players, on average, we've proven we don't have the self control to govern ourselves -not when there are zero personal consequences for choosing the path of least resistance -i.e. meta gaming/building.

    Telling people to play rubbish builds doesn't make the environment less toxic. It doesn't sort the underlying problems of the professions or the mode. It isn't sustainable. It's not attractive to prospective competitive players looking in from the outside to see that a game with nearing thirty professions is skewed toward -at best- a third or less of those for competition's sake. And you could have the best community in the world - it won't be enough to carry things over if the game itself is rotten at the core. Asking people to deliberately handicap themselves won't do anything but make a segment of the population miserable- losing endlessly and needlessly so that other people who won't give them the same consideration get to have a good evening out at their expense.

    Now I'm altruistic in my own fashion, but I'm not that damned altruistic. I have to draw a line somewhere because my time matters too. I'm playing to have fun, to escape, and that doesn't include having my hands tied before I'm even out of the gate. That's what life and a career is for. As an end user it shouldn't fall to me or anyone else not drawing a paycheck from NCsoft to correct these sorts of failures. And that's just what they are, whether intentional or simply oversights allowed to worsen with time and neglect.

    Again, people have to a draw line here. They shouldn't have to buck up, sacrifice, and endure a such a frustrating experience because WvW's been allowed to slide into the sorry state it's currently in. Generally speaking- as a message to anyone still reading -play on if you want, have fun if you're able, but don't blame the people who've reached their personal limit for this sort of rubbish.

  • @Iozeph.5617 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I find the most unfortunate thing is that so many people prefer to give in and play what's strongest rather than finding ways to beat it or challenging themselves with fighting it. I understand losing isn't fun, especially when you feel your opponent only won because their build is OP/more forgiving. But if everyone joins in on that and plays what's most broken, it ruins the fun for everyone.

    IMO, if people consider something to be over performing they should avoid playing it rather than playing excessively. All it does is create a toxic environment where no one enjoys themselves except for the most stubborn of us.

    In PvP and large scale WvW this is completely different. You want to play what's best because you want your team to be efficient. In small scale and solo WvW, losing has an extremely minimal effect on your world's score so it shouldn't matter what you choose to play. But unfortunately, more people care about winning than they do about improving, so everyone flocks to what ever's currently strongest.

    I agree with where your sentiments are coming from but intellectually I have disagree. In a perfect world your suggestion might fly but we don't live, or play, in a perfect world. More, the environment hasn't necessarily been made toxic. It's ever been toxic in these sorts of game modes -toxic as a baseline because competition's involved. It only that much more so when the people in charge of maintaining balance don't seem to care.

    And they have to care about doing the job they're paid for because as players, on average, we've proven we don't have the self control to govern ourselves -not when there are zero personal consequences for choosing the path of least resistance -i.e. meta gaming/building.

    Telling people to play rubbish builds doesn't make the environment less toxic. It doesn't sort the underlying problems of the professions or the mode. It isn't sustainable. It's not attractive to prospective competitive players looking in from the outside to see that a game with nearing thirty professions is skewed toward -at best- a third or less of those for competition's sake. And you could have the best community in the world - it won't be enough to carry things over if the game itself is rotten at the core. Asking people to deliberately handicap themselves won't do anything but make a segment of the population miserable- losing endlessly and needlessly so that other people who won't give them the same consideration get to have a good evening out at their expense.

    Now I'm altruistic in my own fashion, but I'm not that damned altruistic. I have to draw a line somewhere because my time matters too. I'm playing to have fun, to escape, and that doesn't include having my hands tied before I'm even out of the gate. That's what life and a career is for. As an end user it shouldn't fall to me or anyone else not drawing a paycheck from NCsoft to correct these sorts of failures. And that's just what they are, whether intentional or simply oversights allowed to worsen with time and neglect.

    Again, people have to a draw line here. They shouldn't have to buck up, sacrifice, and endure a such a frustrating experience because WvW's been allowed to slide into the sorry state it's currently in. Generally speaking- as a message to anyone still reading -play on if you want, have fun if you're able, but don't blame the people who've reached their personal limit for this sort of rubbish.

    In my own defense here, I'm not asking people to boycott meta builds and elite specializations. Play how ever you want to play. I'm just saying the people who knowingly play broken things and at the same time say "it's broken/OP and should be nerfed" just make me feel they're a part of the problem. Why do people play things they know are over performing and yet still beg for balance? To me it's like having a buffet of food, eating nothing but cake, and saying "there isn't enough healthy food here" while avoiding everything that is. It's hypocritical and frustrating. An observation rooted in truth but a blameless accusation. ANet may provide us with these tools and by all means, people can use what they find most fun. But blaming ANet for providing us with these things while relying on those things to save us doesn't help anyone.

    Personally, I enjoy playing things that are under performing. That will differ for everyone and I understand that. But if you seek winning by any means necessary and turn to what you hate most to do so, failure hurts that much more and blinds you in the process.
    I don't care if I can't beat meta builds and I don't blame others because I choose to handicap myself. But it gives me a real clear view from outside looking in.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Hate me if it makes you feel better ... ♫

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nerf mounts so someone can't just keep you in combat infinitely while the other one OOC's and mounts up so you can't ever escape even 2 poeple in their territory and ill go roam in enemy territory again as now seeing even 2 poeple=dead.

  • childhoodtwo.7095childhoodtwo.7095 Member ✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    Roaming was never a ppt objective imo, most roamers doesnt care about it at all, MU wins gives you nothing aside from some illusionary server pride that is completely irrelevant if you ask me.It`s all about the fights winning or losing is also mostly irrelevant at least for me, fights thats what i enjoy.As a solo roamer since i play this game if i go poke a camp or anything else is because i want fights, its not very funny to roam the map for hour and meet 1 or 2 other roamers at most that are running alone these days.There is steady decline in solo roamers since hot release and roamers in general.Roaming is not what it used to be.Now most of the time you will have to either chew at the zerg backline, or skirmish infront of keeps, sm or towers just to get any action.Most of the time i respect other roamers having their 1v1s wihtout me jumping in, if they respect mine thats about it.Tho i respect every single solo roamer in this game even if i sometimes troll em.

  • acidic.4356acidic.4356 Member ✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    mounts are just the latest and greatest of anets failed attempts to make wvw great again.... if it wernt for the glorious combat system that we have, wvw would be totally empty (same for pvp)
    anyhow.... population decrease, mounts, auto upgrades, probably the reason u see t3 camps.... and also on rare occasions enemy might be actively defenddin it to tier up their structures....

    i play wvw purely for fun...and the most fun is fighting others 1v1... which happpens rarely now.. running around trying to find a 1v1 isnt something i actively do tho..it just happens...spur of the moment.. when the stars align kinda thing... i will randomly check south sentry to see if anyone wants to 1v1.. but most of my time is flipping camps and south towers or defending south..... reporting outnumbered and dealing with enemy roamers- havoc groups and the choo choo karma train that arrives every once in a while.....

    i will also raid with a guild evry now and then to change things up... im doing evreything i can to keep playing this mode... (changing classes- trying new builds/gear- tweaking.. etc etc)
    anet have persistantly tried to spoil my fun tho... evreything they have done and introduced to wvw starting with hot and dbl has meant a decline in fun within the mode...

    but..im still here...for now (nov 5th rdr2 comes for pc - i maybe a cowboy for a while and give gw2 a break)

    but...having said all that... i still enjoy wvw ...whether or not i die to multiple players chasing me down on mount..or to 1 guy thats simply better than me or running some kind of cheese or to a small guild group that see me as a threat, at the end of the day its a game...and a good one (combat system is the best regardless of any other negative aspect of the game)
    i dont care if i die..because there is waypoint and chance of revenge.... whateva the circumstance.

    am i a roamer? am i a duelist ? am i a squad player ? - zerger ? who gives a kitten tbh

    id say 90% of my time in wvw is unorganised running around..with the aim of finding enemy to fight.

  • @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

    I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

    I understand, and to a point I agree. As time goes on I find less and less roamers that purposefully seek challenging fights and instead go for what ever's fastest and easiest. The state of WvW and how it has evolved promotes that attitude and the players don't help much to change it, be it roamer or pug.

    I think the whole "ganker" thing is a blameless perspective imposed on who ever was the victim. It feels better to make excuses than it does to accept mistakes and it's harder to avoid the temptation of vengeance than it is to avoid the person(s) you're frustrated with. Maybe that's just me projecting and how I feel on days I'm not in the best mood, but from what I've seen others say or what others have said directly to me, this is the conclusion I come to.

    Ultimately, the game is what you make it. Maybe wanting to kill those who have wronged you is the motivation you need to keep playing and those you hate most should be thanked for giving you a reason to keep signing on. Or maybe they ruin your experience because your losses, especially when they come with humiliation, outweigh the pleasure of victory when you defeat them or wipe a blob with your own. I don't know, there are too many possibilities to consider them all.

    I'm reading way too deep in to a video game here...
    I'm just trying to make the point that if everyone sees each other as deserving of humiliation or a bad reputation, then eventually everyone is going to treat each other like garbage regardless.

    I can only speak for myself when i say i feel kinda frustrating when im roaming...i love to theorycraft and tryout new builds and have enjoyed that till short after pof release...ive made a start for the Harrier firebrand build, Brought in the Hammer vanilla guard, started as one of the first to run meditrapper in PVP again

    Anyway i wanted to proove i barely do that anymore...Being creatieve...IT has no use to theorycraft because certain builds and people running around with the same builds for years...the build that's the strongest for the class...making me forced to run the most cheesy dh build there is (yeah meditrapper is easiest guardbuild but still requires more active play then most meta roaming builds like war, soulbeast, boonbeast, mirage etc.)

    I feel this bores the Heck out of me since the only thing on Guardian thats been buffed usefully last 3-5 patches is true shot and deflecting shot...which did fine on their original stuff( true shot got to 1500 range and deflecting shot no longer double damage on projectile destroy but got 80% damage boost on default).

    The other changes on guard are Just really random and feel stale. Even couldnt enjoy burn firebrand/guard because IT feels really passive...

    Im not stating guard is in a bad spot; on the contrary i mean there's no diversity in what to fight and even most of those builds hardcounter on the cheesiest kitten i can run (meditrapper vs holo, ranger and spellbreaker)

    The meta is still and maybe Done evolving because there seems no counter to certain play and i dont even bother to fight a spellbreaker who can oneshot me with 3 skills on his bar, his dodgeroll that hits harder (and unblockable) then half my skills and can be immune to my damage 16/20 seconds. Its Just not fun for me anymore

    I find the most unfortunate thing is that so many people prefer to give in and play what's strongest rather than finding ways to beat it or challenging themselves with fighting it. I understand losing isn't fun, especially when you feel your opponent only won because their build is OP/more forgiving. But if everyone joins in on that and plays what's most broken, it ruins the fun for everyone.

    IMO, if people consider something to be over performing they should avoid playing it rather than playing excessively. All it does is create a toxic environment where no one enjoys themselves except for the most stubborn of us.

    In PvP and large scale WvW this is completely different. You want to play what's best because you want your team to be efficient. In small scale and solo WvW, losing has an extremely minimal effect on your world's score so it shouldn't matter what you choose to play. But unfortunately, more people care about winning than they do about improving, so everyone flocks to what ever's currently strongest.

    Then tell me
    Why do i get sieged and jumped on by half the people i loose from when running offmeta...and im doing that to have fun
    You know...fighting and stuff people i consider fun...i dont Care about the warscore
    I Just get frustrated when i try to even damage something like a warrior (got oneshotted on celestial firebrand...with eagis on by GS 3 yesterday) and they Just get away with IT...and people stil qq about the kitten

    Yeah i admitted i do play the most cheesy variety of Guardian but i also admitted IT wasnt that passive as the builds i mentioned earlier. Saying i do triple in on the strongest guard build and roam on IT sometimes is compeletely different then targetting people 2v1 and going on most broken builds

    But thanks for your concern i guess?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @acidic.4356 said:
    mounts are just the latest and greatest of anets failed attempts to make wvw great again.... if it wernt for the glorious combat system that we have, wvw would be totally empty (same for pvp)
    anyhow.... population decrease, mounts, auto upgrades, probably the reason u see t3 camps.... and also on rare occasions enemy might be actively defenddin it to tier up their structures....

    WvWers: Mounts are too fast, we cant even defend camps before they run and take them!

    Also WvWers: Mounts are too fast, we cant even take camps before they run and defend them!

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • its all "meh" at this point

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:
    mounts are just the latest and greatest of anets failed attempts to make wvw great again.... if it wernt for the glorious combat system that we have, wvw would be totally empty (same for pvp)
    anyhow.... population decrease, mounts, auto upgrades, probably the reason u see t3 camps.... and also on rare occasions enemy might be actively defenddin it to tier up their structures....

    WvWers: Mounts are too fast, we cant even defend camps before they run and take them!

    Also WvWers: Mounts are too fast, we cant even take camps before they run and defend them!

    Very much like what you said about toughness some other day. Players want things to go their way.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.