In response to cmc, about Guardian. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

In response to cmc, about Guardian.

AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 28, 2019 in PVP

By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

Guardian

It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

Weapons

Greatsword

Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

#2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
Remove the movement slow.

#5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

Scepter

Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

#1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

Sword

A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

#2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
Revert the damage nerf in PvP

Hammer

Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

#2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

#4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

Axe

Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

#2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

Traits

Contrary to popular beliefs, Guardian has pretty good trait variations now. Every line is used to a bigger or lesser extent.
I would finally add a 25% Movement trait into the Guardians kit and setting them free from running Lynx rune.

Virtues

#Inspired Virtue -By adding a 25% situational movespeed buff to F3 will let Guardians move between points faster without getting a speedboost once engaged. This also works with trade-offs considering the higher Courage cooldowns on both** Dragonhunter (60 seconds)** and Firebrand (75 seconds).
In addition to it's previous effects, grants 25% movement speed whenever Virtue of Courage (F3) is not on cooldown.

Honor

#Writ of Persistence- Right now, this makes the Guardian symbols just about as big as a node. While my way would be to just make the nodes bigger (considering the amount of AoE spam we have in the game right now) I feel like that is once again, not in the scope of the patch. I think I can speak for the majority of the player-base when I say that spammable AoE-Based damage is un-fun to play against.
Does no longer increase the radius of symbols. Increase the healing per tick from 107 (0.075) to 157 (0.150).

Skills

I could, once again list all the useless Consecrations, spirit weapons and signet. But in spirit of toning down power-creep I won't.
@cmc was talking about potentially adding cast-times to a bunch of instant cast skills. I will advice against this as it will make any and all meditations unplayable. Not being able to combo with Judge's Intervention, or use Smite Condition for the extra burst will break the class in DPS scenarios (where it doesn't shine) and do nothing to the problematic support side of Firebrand.

#Hammer of Wisdom - Remove the travel-time of this ability.
Make it function like Drop the Hammer from Revenant. Keep the cast time as is.

#Mantra of Truth - The single most un-fun, unfair and bloated Guardian skill in the game. Having an instant cast, multiple charge, Aoe Blind, Cripple and Weakness should not have made it past the drawing board. It is either going to be completely useless, or extremely obnoxious.
Remove Weakness from the first two charges. (Keep on final charge). Remove Immobilize from final charge.

#Signet of Mercy - A stable of support Firebrand. Was much needed in the high-burst metas we've had with double rev comps ruling over AT's, but with power creep toned down this should also get toned down.
Suggestion 1; Increase cooldown from 90 seconds to 150 seconds. Suggestion 2; Upon activating this skill, strip all personal stability.

I will probably have missed a few things considering I composed this rather quickly. I also urge people to do the same about the classes you main in the most non-biased way you can.

~ God Tier Guardian

Comments

  • without chill theres nothing glacial about glacial blow lol. just keep the chill, one of the biggest problems with hammer is sticking to the target. I don't think mercy sig is a big problem since its got a big cast time, its sorta the other teams fault for not rupting it. not a big issue tho. all other changes look reasonable.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    without chill theres nothing glacial about glacial blow lol. just keep the chill, one of the biggest problems with hammer is sticking to the target. I don't think mercy sig is a big problem since its got a big cast time, its sorta the other teams fault for not rupting it. not a big issue tho. all other changes look reasonable.

    So rename it. The chill won't help. A 600 range on the "leap" will let you stick to targets easier than the chill anyway.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

  • @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

  • @Dantheman.3589 said:
    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    I'm just someone that likes playing for fun, so don't take this personally nor too seriously.
    From the perspective of an amateur (me), it would seem that every class is op to some other class, considering the amount of posts like this I see in the different sub-foruns :)

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    without chill theres nothing glacial about glacial blow lol. just keep the chill, one of the biggest problems with hammer is sticking to the target. I don't think mercy sig is a big problem since its got a big cast time, its sorta the other teams fault for not rupting it. not a big issue tho. all other changes look reasonable.

    So rename it. The chill won't help. A 600 range on the "leap" will let you stick to targets easier than the chill anyway.

    why not have both? keeping the chill won't make it op.

  • @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

  • @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    Well, kinda hard running axe in the HoT days. Also, buffing it? I'm merely increasing the velocity of the auto attack.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    U clearly underestimate symbols> @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    Well, kinda hard running axe in the HoT days. Also, buffing it? I'm merely increasing the velocity of the auto attack.

    Symbol firebrand and core symbols are probably 2 of the best 1v1 specs in the game. Why would we give huge buffs overall to what is overall probably the best class in the game pvp wise at the moment.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2019

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    The irony of you telling someone "you clearly haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years"...... and then using as your example...... stuff that happened more than 2 years ago.

    Clearly, you haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. Scepter is not used anywhere in PvP, by anyone above Gold. It is straight up trash.

    The symbol on it does 'okay' damage...... if the target sits in it for the full duration. Which will literally never happen. It was clearly supposed to be combo'd with the immobilise, but these days people are farting out cleanses and immob-breaks every second, so that combo will, again, straight up never happen. And even if it does happen, it'll still do maybe 4-5k damage. Hardly OP.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2019

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    The irony of you telling someone "you clearly haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years"...... and then using as your example...... stuff that happened more than 2 years ago.

    Clearly, you haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. Scepter is not used anywhere in PvP, by anyone above Gold. It is straight up trash. The symbol on it does 'okay' damage...... if the target sits in it for the full duration. Which will literally never happen. It was clearly supposed to be combo'd with the immobilise, but these days people are farting out cleanses and immob-breaks every second, so that combo will, again, straight up never happen. And even if it does happen, it'll still do maybe 4-5k damage. Hardly OP.

    And I like how you glossed over the long list of nerfs being suggested, to tunnel on the one minor buff, to a weapon that is never used anywhere, and on the basis of that decide that was is being proposed is "huge buffs".

    Not used anywhere in pvp? Lol some of best Guardians in the game always use scepter. Literally the person I duo queued with always uses scepter and he was in legend after 1 day of climbing if he played the entire season he probably would’ve been god of pvp. Also 3/4 of the other actually good firebrands and guardians in Na use it.

    You are literally saying scepter is never used in gold when literally all the best guardians NA use it!!! I don’t know much about What EU guys play but we literally made Gratchaton rage quit on NA by farming his kitten. Still are u going to say that scepter on symbols- One of the most op weapons in the game is not used!!??

    You guys Don’t know jack about firebrand gl in gold.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2019

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    U clearly underestimate symbols> @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    Well, kinda hard running axe in the HoT days. Also, buffing it? I'm merely increasing the velocity of the auto attack.

    Symbol firebrand and core symbols are probably 2 of the best 1v1 specs in the game. Why would we give huge buffs overall to what is overall probably the best class in the game pvp wise at the moment.

    @Ragnar.4257
    Btw I mentioned it once. Core symbols with scepter really good at 1v1ing rn it literally makes fire weaver, staff thief and symbol firebrands look like child’s toys. Doesn’t matter how many tomes u got if consistent damage and sustain are high enough overall.

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2019

    I'm P3/Leg EU.

    I haven't seen a single guardian using scepter in the last 4 seasons.

    Not one.

    I guess I don't count as the sole "scepter guard in PvP" :( (maidaen china, P3 EU).

    I'll bounce back on OP's post:

    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Yeah ... "heavy armor toughness" is not sufficient to compensate the low vitality. Guardians have ridiculously low protection uptime when compared to most other classes, and their mobility to "escape fights" is terrible.

    Greatsword

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    Agree, but I would rather see a 75% than a 100% speed. CD is already low (8s) for a quite high dps skill, I don't want to see guardians become tornadoes.
    Retaliation hits a bit too hard when using this skill, but that's more like a design flaw of retaliation than the skill itself... Or the retaliation spam.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Not sure. Imo the skill does wonders. People use it to pull, but it's an insane damage-over-time skill. Speed is fine, this skill needs to be dodgeable if standing further away. Problem is that sometimes the skill "misses" for no reason.
    Reveal can be fun though, but I am scared that it transforms this "already popular weapon" into a "must have weapon".

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.
    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Agree. I would add that #2 Symbol of punishment has been totally trashed after being changed from a "fast hitting skill" to a "slow ticking symbol". No ennemy stands at 900 range on that symbol. The guard does not profit from the might of that symbol because it is a ranged symbol. These changes were unhealthy.

    Sword

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    I'm not sure. Double strike removal is healthier for the game, now it's finally dodgeable without doing instant 4k hit in the face. As for all the symbols, damage is fine for NON-MOVING targets, which never happens in PvP. Symbols are outdated design, changing numbers is just leading to more cheese. I'd recommend making the symbols move around the guardian, which seems to be a more modern design (i'm thinking about the new weaver skills).

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    Video clip you mentioned is a nice oneshot, but let's put it into context: +20% damage buff, before Righteous Instincts trait nerf (so that guardians were able to play with valkyrie amulet while keeping the crit chance of berzerker, so a huge damage boost), and before glacial heart trait nerf. I am not against the nerfs, situation was extremely cheese before.

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.
    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    I consider #2 Mighty / Glacial blow balanced and I am against the 600 range increase. The problem is that it's an outdated skill, that gets its damaged negated because of the extreme amount of aegis/blocks in this game.

    #4 banish definitively needs some love, Cast time reduction seems to be a good idea. I am not sure about reducing the launch though, it can be quite helpful to "isolate" a target from a fight, or to disengage from one.

    #5 ring of warding has a nice design, but too many classes have access to stability or can escape too easily from the ring.

    Imo, the only way to really bring back hammer to the game in a "non-cheese way" would be by nerfing the amount of boons (mainly aegis/stability) during the fight.

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    Never played FB so I won't comment.

    I would add ...

    Torch

    #4 Zealot's Fire FIX THE LOS BUG FOR GOD'S SAKE.
    #5 Cleansing Flame Should ALSO cleanse own conditions.

    Traits

    Virtues

    #Inspired Virtue -By adding a 25% situational movespeed buff to F3 will let Guardians move between points faster without getting a speedboost once engaged. This also works with trade-offs considering the higher Courage cooldowns on both** Dragonhunter (60 seconds)** and Firebrand (75 seconds).
    In addition to it's previous effects, grants 25% movement speed whenever Virtue of Courage (F3) is not on cooldown.

    Would be great !

    Honor

    #Writ of Persistence- Right now, this makes the Guardian symbols just about as big as a node. While my way would be to just make the nodes bigger (considering the amount of AoE spam we have in the game right now) I feel like that is once again, not in the scope of the patch. I think I can speak for the majority of the player-base when I say that spammable AoE-Based damage is un-fun to play against.
    Does no longer increase the radius of symbols. Increase the healing per tick from 107 (0.075) to 157 (0.150).

    Yeah, large AoE is not a great thing in PvP. Make (small) symbol move with guardian instead.

    I would also add this following:

    Valor

    #Smiter's Boon: revert the nerf https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/80510/core-guards-undocumented-strong-nerf-smiters-boon.

    Skills

    I could, once again list all the useless Consecrations, spirit weapons and signet. But in spirit of toning down power-creep I won't.
    @cmc was talking about potentially adding cast-times to a bunch of instant cast skills. I will advice against this as it will make any and all meditations unplayable. Not being able to combo with Judge's Intervention, or use Smite Condition for the extra burst will break the class in DPS scenarios (where it doesn't shine) and do nothing to the problematic support side of Firebrand.

    Agree, guards instant cast times skills are really necessary and lead to nice gameplay (Judge's intervention <3 <3). However I admit that Smite Condition might be a problem as a "decent insta damage dealing skill". Damage might be replaced by a "damage boost buff" (might ?) for more counterplay.

    #Hammer of Wisdom - Remove the travel-time of this ability.
    Make it function like Drop the Hammer from Revenant. Keep the cast time as is.

    Why not, gotta see how it works.

    #Mantra of Truth - The single most un-fun, unfair and bloated Guardian skill in the game. Having an instant cast, multiple charge, Aoe Blind, Cripple and Weakness should not have made it past the drawing board. It is either going to be completely useless, or extremely obnoxious.
    Remove Weakness from the first two charges. (Keep on final charge). Remove Immobilize from final charge.

    Weakness is stupidly powerful. I agree with these changes.

    #Signet of Mercy - A stable of support Firebrand. Was much needed in the high-burst metas we've had with double rev comps ruling over AT's, but with power creep toned down this should also get toned down.
    Suggestion 1; Increase cooldown from 90 seconds to 150 seconds. Suggestion 2; Upon activating this skill, strip all personal stability.

    Personal stability strip could be fun. Otherwise make this skill root the guardian, as it was before. It's just too easy for a FB to cast it and start running safely away.

    I will probably have missed a few things considering I composed this rather quickly. I also urge people to do the same about the classes you main in the most non-biased way you can.

    Nah, you did good <3

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2019

    Yeah I actually love how a group of EU players got together and told every one I claimed to be best thief world when exact quote was “my main is top ten NA rn” in a conversation in NA btw where someone asked me what my main is rated. This is further proof at why team USA alone is better than every top player EU. It’s cuz they gah.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    The irony of you telling someone "you clearly haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years"...... and then using as your example...... stuff that happened more than 2 years ago.

    Clearly, you haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. Scepter is not used anywhere in PvP, by anyone above Gold. It is straight up trash. The symbol on it does 'okay' damage...... if the target sits in it for the full duration. Which will literally never happen. It was clearly supposed to be combo'd with the immobilise, but these days people are farting out cleanses and immob-breaks every second, so that combo will, again, straight up never happen. And even if it does happen, it'll still do maybe 4-5k damage. Hardly OP.

    And I like how you glossed over the long list of nerfs being suggested, to tunnel on the one minor buff, to a weapon that is never used anywhere, and on the basis of that decide that was is being proposed is "huge buffs".

    Not used anywhere in pvp? Lol some of best Guardians in the game always use scepter. Literally the person I duo queued with always uses scepter and he was in legend after 1 day of climbing if he played the entire season he probably would’ve been god of pvp. Also 3/4 of the other actually good firebrands and guardians in Na use it.

    You are literally saying scepter is never used in gold when literally all the best guardians NA use it!!! I don’t know much about What EU guys play but we literally made Gratchaton rage quit on NA by farming his kitten. Still are u going to say that scepter on symbols- One of the most op weapons in the game is not used!!??

    You guys Don’t know jack about firebrand gl in gold.

    So, nice of you to report my last reply for infraction. So I'll repeat, minus the "hurtful" words.

    Your information is wrong.

    Scepter is severely under-used. It is in no way the "meta" or "strongest" guardian weapon. Everyone is telling you the same thing. When everyone agrees except you, it might be time to re-assess, or at least come back with some concrete evidence.

    In response to your claim "You guys don't know jack about firebrand gl in gold"........ I'm P3/Leg FB. And I'm telling you that scepter is not worth taking over axe/sword. There are also several other top-tier guards in this thread saying the same thing. If they nerf axe/sword, I'd still pick GS/hammer over scepter. Even mace. If all of them got nerfed except scepter.... I'd go play a different class, 'cos scepter doesn't work.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    Gonna clarify I think buffs to sword are excessive suggestions , hammer too. Axe nerf?? Maybe just not liking it at all. scepter is useful I think what I never liked was animations I would maybe like a fix similar to staff rework but other than that it’s fine. But pretty much what I said these changes I feel would just tilt the balance. That’s the only thing I wanna comment on atm take it or leave it

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @cmc was talking about potentially adding cast-times to a bunch of instant cast skills. I will advice against this as it will make any and all meditations unplayable. Not being able to combo with Judge's Intervention, or use Smite Condition for the extra burst will break the class in DPS scenarios (where it doesn't shine) and do nothing to the problematic support side of Firebrand.

    Few things here.
    First, why are we automatically assuming they are going to place cast time on all meditations?
    And in retrospective, putting casting time on JI would have been preferred option to what they actually did (nerf RI) as than Guardians would still have more options than being forced to gravitate so much towards Firebrand. Only build where JI was truly mandatory part of gameplay is already deleted from the game. To be fair, I have barely played last season, but I don't remember when was the last time I saw a guardian using JI.

    On the other side, abundance of instant casting skills is bad for general health of game (same if game goes completely in opposite direction). I would definitely welcome this change under condition that all other professions obviously get treated the same way

    I do mostly like other things you have suggested and would welcome them. But to be honest I would like them to do more consequential changes to Whirling Wrath. Honestly, i think it "spins" to long. I would rather see it have reduced number of attacks and projectiles (with overall damage staying the same)

    Now to the other topic. As far as I know, currently there are two (or one and a half, depending on perspective) "meta" builds for guardian, and both of them are variants of Firebrand. Yes I am sure some of you are absolute killers with your scepters, your Dragonhunters and burning Core Guardians, but I am not sure that it changes the general trend of where the class is and has been for some time

  • @Dantheman.3589 "scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs." "scepter is useful I think what I never liked was animations I would maybe like a fix similar to staff rework but other than that it’s fine." There is a big difference betweent "one of the strongest" and "fine" btw.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is some good stuff here and others.. not so much.

    Weapons:
    GS was never a good weapon in PvP. But what made it powerful was the extremely high damage offered by Righteous Instant. It was mostly a deterrent through high damage forcing enemies to play smart and giving guardian some space and breathing room. Since RI nerf (among a nerf every single patch to core guardian since the beginning of the year), this is.. no longer valid. It still packs a punch, if you can land skill 2. It can also work well, assuming someone else does CC. But this is highly unreliable.

    Scepter, AA does not hit anything not absolutely stationary. It is a useless PvP weapon and always was.

    Hammer, worst guardian weapon in every game mode. Glacial blow is key for Sage FB, not useful for anything else.

    I too think axe is a bit strong, but considering that lack of mobility and low HP pool, it is what keeps Sage FB afloat.

    No mention of LB (it is terrible).

    I personally like torch, but guardian is desperately in need of sustain and torch offers none. In addition, condi builds do not use radiance, which is really needed for torch to function.

    Traits:
    Will not get too deep here, but to respond to OP:

    Writ of Persistence, man the symbols deal close to no damage, except GS, which you could not use with honor anyway. This trait is only used by Sage FB (which uses Sage amulet... very little power damage) and only for healing. I could care less if it covers the point or not. This suggested change does not understand anything about the builds, it is almost inspired by Anet dev ;) But I would take. It is a big sustain buff for Sage FB.

    As for trait diversity.. lol. Every power build uses valor with the exact same setup. None of the power build are viable, but that is another problem. Radiance is also looked into specific traits. Same for zeal, but do not use zeal in PvP, okay?? DH is locked into specific traits as well.

    FB, honor and virtues have flexibility. But that is part of the reason why only FB support and Sage FB are viable builds.

    Skills:
    No need to beat a dead horse, it is meditations, mantras and stand your ground. Nothing else is remotely viable.

    I agree regarding mantra of truth. It does too much, especially that it is typically paired with axe CC.

    Overall, this does not really tell us anything new. FB support and its dps variant, Sage FB, are the only viable builds. Everything else is mediocre or dead cuz guardian lacks the HP pool, the mobility and lack of effective CC, outside of FB. Core guardian worked in the past, due to the extremely high damage, where the damage itself became a deterrent that made it dangerous for most bruiser builds (which is all builds in the meta) to get close; effectively acting as sustain. This is now gone. DH.. never really worked in the last 3 years. It was, and still is, a one trick pony, with the trick being well known, weak and easy to avoid.

  • Jakkun.4561Jakkun.4561 Member ✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    Eh, why would you remove the Fury from Axe2. Literally you have no fury access outside of sword2 axe2 and Save Yourselves (if you run it). Also, Valor is irrelevant if you are running any hybrid build. It only works for Support FB and the fury access the traitline gives doesnt matter. If you want a symbol that ticks regen pick Mace.

    Don't touch Mantra of Truth weakness. Its one of the reasons why you can handle (not win) some matchups like holo, rev and spellbreaker decently without instant dying to rampage or deathstrike.

    Whats the point of granting 25% movement speed on F3 under cooldown. If you run Support you have good swiftness access, if you run any hybrid FB or DH build you gonna pick Traveler/Lynx. Makes no sense.

    People complaining about symbols being "unfun" and covering the whole node. Its very simple, if the hybrid FB drops all his symbols on node, you give up the node, and win later on.

    Signet started to be relevant ever since they removed Magi and nerfed Valor and tomes skills, not only when double rev comp was the meta. It also requires a lot of skillness to use, awareness to pre cast, watch for launch CC on the downed, communication, etc. And has ton of counterplay due to big cast time: steal, staff5 rev, CC in general, stab corrupt. No reason to nerf it at all.

    Don't run Scepter, it's bad. Not even Arken runs it as often with his Harrier build. Only reason why the "top" firebrands on NA are trying scepter now its because USA lost mAT agaisnt Zyn's team, that had one Harrierbrand with Scepter.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 "scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs." "scepter is useful I think what I never liked was animations I would maybe like a fix similar to staff rework but other than that it’s fine." There is a big difference betweent "one of the strongest" and "fine" btw.

    “Strongest” was in reference to how good it is on symbols and fine was in comparison to the post about velocity which is more about animations. The animations are a little awkward but the weapon is fully functional and therefore is “fine” and it is definitely useful in pvp being very “strong” on symbol builds

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jakkun.4561 said:
    Don't run Scepter, it's bad. Not even Arken runs it as often with his Harrier build. Only reason why the "top" firebrands on NA are trying scepter now its because USA lost mAT agaisnt Zyn's team, that had one Harrierbrand with Scepter.

    The thing if you are running harrier in mATs you will want scepter. Arkens choice of staff is only for movement speed which is not needed at all in this situation. Scepter has been good for awhile and honestly is perfectly viable on symbols. I see plenty of top fbs na playing scepter all the time - Ryan, thermite, control freak, levakilla and Arken all run it pretty often and that’s basically all the good symbol brands maybe even good firebrands NA who have been playing with scepter for years...right?
    Also one of the points I tried to make> @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    U clearly underestimate symbols> @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    Well, kinda hard running axe in the HoT days. Also, buffing it? I'm merely increasing the velocity of the auto attack.

    Symbol firebrand and core symbols are probably 2 of the best 1v1 specs in the game. Why would we give huge buffs overall to what is overall probably the best class in the game pvp wise at the moment.

    @Ragnar.4257
    Btw I mentioned it once. Core symbols with scepter really good at 1v1ing rn it literally makes fire weaver, staff thief and symbol firebrands look like child’s toys. Doesn’t matter how many tomes u got if consistent damage and sustain are high enough overall.

    If you are running something like core you will 100% need scepter and this is relevant because it’s looking like core symbols maybe a new op build. From what I’ve seen this build will basically always beat sagebrand and normal symbolbrand, in addition making a mockery of staff thief and builds like condi Mesmer and fire weaver. It honestly seems ridiculous to say never play scepter when taking this in to consideration, though I honestly think it’s pretty darn good overall too.

  • Jakkun.4561Jakkun.4561 Member ✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    Yea run scepter then

  • Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.

    You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.

    While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.

    All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.
    Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.
    Wall is the only consecration worth taking.
    Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).

    Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

    Scepter is definitely outdated, but it works.

    @Zephoid.4263 said:
    Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.

    You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.

    While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.

    All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.
    Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.
    Wall is the only consecration worth taking.
    Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).

    Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

    Honestly hammer and scepter could see changes, but guardian has long been severely outdated and yet still very good in pvp. Fix everything else first before changing every single weapon.

  • FtoPScrub.5476FtoPScrub.5476 Member ✭✭✭

    Bring back core and DH. Symbol FB is braindead and should be gutted for the sake of bringing some semblance of skill back to guardian.

  • @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

    Scepter is definitely outdated, but it works.

    @Zephoid.4263 said:
    Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.

    You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.

    While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.

    All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.
    Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.
    Wall is the only consecration worth taking.
    Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).

    Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

    Honestly hammer and scepter could see changes, but guardian has long been severely outdated and yet still very good in pvp. Fix everything else first before changing every single weapon.

    "Changing every single weapon", you're making it sounds like I'm asking for complete overhauls. A simple velocity bonus, so that our only ranged dps weapon can actually, you know, hit from more outside melee range would be fantastic. It even had its auto damage nerfed last patch.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • @FtoPScrub.5476 said:
    Bring back core and DH. Symbol FB is braindead and should be gutted for the sake of bringing some semblance of skill back to guardian.

    While I would love to be able to play Hammer guard or medi-DH again. I feel like they are currently what the golden standard SHOULD be ingame. I believe we won't ever get back to that considering the design of many of the PoF specs, but cmc's comment in mind (saying he wants to reduce the power-creep) all we can do is hope now I guess.
    I would hope that he starts by toning down all the blatantly obvious OP classes, followed by all the un-fun kitten like Mirage, DE, Staff Staff DrD etc etc.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    The irony of you telling someone "you clearly haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years"...... and then using as your example...... stuff that happened more than 2 years ago.

    Clearly, you haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. Scepter is not used anywhere in PvP, by anyone above Gold. It is straight up trash. The symbol on it does 'okay' damage...... if the target sits in it for the full duration. Which will literally never happen. It was clearly supposed to be combo'd with the immobilise, but these days people are farting out cleanses and immob-breaks every second, so that combo will, again, straight up never happen. And even if it does happen, it'll still do maybe 4-5k damage. Hardly OP.

    And I like how you glossed over the long list of nerfs being suggested, to tunnel on the one minor buff, to a weapon that is never used anywhere, and on the basis of that decide that was is being proposed is "huge buffs".

    Not used anywhere in pvp? Lol some of best Guardians in the game always use scepter. Literally the person I duo queued with always uses scepter and he was in legend after 1 day of climbing if he played the entire season he probably would’ve been god of pvp. Also 3/4 of the other actually good firebrands and guardians in Na use it.

    You are literally saying scepter is never used in gold when literally all the best guardians NA use it!!! I don’t know much about What EU guys play but we literally made Gratchaton rage quit on NA by farming his kitten. Still are u going to say that scepter on symbols- One of the most op weapons in the game is not used!!??

    You guys Don’t know jack about firebrand gl in gold.

    Please Just Stop. You are delusional as ever my dude.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    @Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

    Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

    The irony of you telling someone "you clearly haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years"...... and then using as your example...... stuff that happened more than 2 years ago.

    Clearly, you haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. Scepter is not used anywhere in PvP, by anyone above Gold. It is straight up trash. The symbol on it does 'okay' damage...... if the target sits in it for the full duration. Which will literally never happen. It was clearly supposed to be combo'd with the immobilise, but these days people are farting out cleanses and immob-breaks every second, so that combo will, again, straight up never happen. And even if it does happen, it'll still do maybe 4-5k damage. Hardly OP.

    And I like how you glossed over the long list of nerfs being suggested, to tunnel on the one minor buff, to a weapon that is never used anywhere, and on the basis of that decide that was is being proposed is "huge buffs".

    Not used anywhere in pvp? Lol some of best Guardians in the game always use scepter. Literally the person I duo queued with always uses scepter and he was in legend after 1 day of climbing if he played the entire season he probably would’ve been god of pvp. Also 3/4 of the other actually good firebrands and guardians in Na use it.

    You are literally saying scepter is never used in gold when literally all the best guardians NA use it!!! I don’t know much about What EU guys play but we literally made Gratchaton rage quit on NA by farming his kitten. Still are u going to say that scepter on symbols- One of the most op weapons in the game is not used!!??

    You guys Don’t know jack about firebrand gl in gold.

    Please Just Stop. You are delusional as ever my dude.

    As delusional as ever coming from an insanely toxic dude who doesn’t even know me. Like you’ve never talked to me besides trash talk- “bad thief” stuff like that even though at the time I came back to the game I was literally highest rated thief 3 seasons in a row all solo q.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

    Scepter is definitely outdated, but it works.

    @Zephoid.4263 said:
    Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.

    You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.

    While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.

    All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.
    Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.
    Wall is the only consecration worth taking.
    Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).

    Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

    Honestly hammer and scepter could see changes, but guardian has long been severely outdated and yet still very good in pvp. Fix everything else first before changing every single weapon.

    "Changing every single weapon", you're making it sounds like I'm asking for complete overhauls. A simple velocity bonus, so that our only ranged dps weapon can actually, you know, hit from more outside melee range would be fantastic. It even had its auto damage nerfed last patch.

    Ignore the extraneous post- forums always have ppl trying to fight. > @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
    Remove the movement slow.

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
    Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
    Increase velocity, keep damage as is.

    Sword

    A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.

    #2 Symbol of Blades - Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
    Revert the damage nerf in PvP

    Hammer

    Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.
    Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).

    #2 Mighty / Glacial blow - Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
    Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.

    #4 Banish - Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
    Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).

    Axe

    Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.

    #2 Symbol of Vengeance - The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
    Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

    The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

    Gonna clarify I think buffs to sword are excessive suggestions , hammer too. Axe nerf?? Maybe just not liking it at all. scepter is useful I think what I never liked was animations I would maybe like a fix similar to staff rework but other than that it’s fine. But pretty much what I said these changes I feel would just tilt the balance. That’s the only thing I wanna comment on atm take it or leave it

    I pretty much already said that your scepter idea was right. Though your wrong because it can hit and when it does the damage can be just nutty considering how it’s a slow ranged weapon. It’s op to where nerfs aren’t out of question. My problem is just I don’t think the weapon suggestions are hitting the nail on the head- for instance I think the suggestion for GS would make GS so very OverPowered. And that’s my opinion- I’m not sure why people have to try and fight with ppl on forums it’s so counter productive
    But feel free to prove me wrong about why GS should have reveal and velocity changes. I honestly haven’t played guardian at a top tier lvl since around release. Though I feel I know some of the stuff- like how hammer used to be great.

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    I really feel that something is missing when guard has no reveal and about 10000 light fields. Seems like an obvious combination.

    GS doesn't need anything to make it competitive. It has wonderful cast times that almost perfectly match up with rotation. My only complaint is that 3's heal amount is a complete insult (who uses GS with healing anyways???) . The old heal on hit gs trait was actually pretty good. i have no idea why it was changed.

    The 3rd strike on hammer auto chain needs a total rework. 1.25s single ability on a chain is absurd and the ability in no way gives enough benefit to actually getting it off. Hammer 3 and 4 need a rework. Both have longer cast times for mediocre effect. While punting people is hilarious, the damage and prevalence of stab makes it really bad. 5 is uniquely strong, which could justify its long cast time. 2 is nerfed from its peak, but is inline with most weapon skills.

    I could post up a whole brainstorming session on guard changes i would want, but it would be useless. The devs don't look here and they will take their own path. The only hope is to generate enough noise to get them to look over it.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zephoid.4263 said:
    I really feel that something is missing when guard has no reveal and about 10000 light fields. Seems like an obvious combination.

    GS doesn't need anything to make it competitive. It has wonderful cast times that almost perfectly match up with rotation. My only complaint is that 3's heal amount is a complete insult (who uses GS with healing anyways???) . The old heal on hit gs trait was actually pretty good. i have no idea why it was changed.

    The 3rd strike on hammer auto chain needs a total rework. 1.25s single ability on a chain is absurd and the ability in no way gives enough benefit to actually getting it off. Hammer 3 and 4 need a rework. Both have longer cast times for mediocre effect. While punting people is hilarious, the damage and prevalence of stab makes it really bad. 5 is uniquely strong, which could justify its long cast time. 2 is nerfed from its peak, but is inline with most weapon skills.

    I could post up a whole brainstorming session on guard changes i would want, but it would be useless. The devs don't look here and they will take their own path. The only hope is to generate enough noise to get them to look over it.

    And that’s like my point reveal seems good on a thief counter. But like GS spin and pull are like super good even it was nerfed away from meta. If we do this core guard is gonna needlessly be meta it honestly is a suggestion for a complete overhaul of half guardian weapons

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

    Scepter is definitely outdated, but it works.

    @Zephoid.4263 said:
    Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.

    You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.

    While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.

    All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.
    Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.
    Wall is the only consecration worth taking.
    Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).

    Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

    Honestly hammer and scepter could see changes, but guardian has long been severely outdated and yet still very good in pvp. Fix everything else first before changing every single weapon.

    "Changing every single weapon", you're making it sounds like I'm asking for complete overhauls. A simple velocity bonus, so that our only ranged dps weapon can actually, you know, hit from more outside melee range would be fantastic. It even had its auto damage nerfed last patch.

    Which he claimed it isn’t . But it obviously is a huge overhaul. Core guardian obviously doesn’t need buffs when that with scepter and symbols is literally enough to beat FB. I can only imagine if these changes happen we literally won’t even see FB in the meta which will cause a huge change in balance since this will also kill the already mediocre necro + FB combo

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zephoid.4263 said:
    The 3rd strike on hammer auto chain needs a total rework. 1.25s single ability on a chain is absurd and the ability in no way gives enough benefit to actually getting it off. Hammer 3 and 4 need a rework. Both have longer cast times for mediocre effect. While punting people is hilarious, the damage and prevalence of stab makes it really bad. 5 is uniquely strong, which could justify its long cast time. 2 is nerfed from its peak, but is inline with most weapon skills.

    Hammer 3 has always stood out like a sore thumb as the only 1200 range skill on a melee weapon kit...
    We're all kinda used to it at this point but fact is it's never been a well designed skill for this weapon.
    IMO it needs to be made into a mid-range cone-shaped attack.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Get-out-of-jail traits should not exist(luckily, Guardian has none of these).

    Wholeheartedly agree. Defensive traits should be about presenting an opportunity to salvage something out of a mistake made. An active effort has to be made, regardless.

    A fine example of this would be DH's Hunter's Determination: 1) action 2) reaction (trait proc) 3) cue for both players 4) choice (for both players). About as interactive as it gets.

    The lack of cast times is an interesting one for me. Personally, I think it can be great in a 1v1 scenario, where it potentially keeps both players on their toes, and ups the skill cap of the fight. However, I think the issues these skills present become more and more noticeable in a 1 v X scenario, or a teamfight. Particularly with the offensive ones.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭
    edited November 2, 2019

    Now that I have time to comment, as much as I can appreciate the effort made, I disagree with quite a few of the suggested changes. I'll go over each suggestion and my opinion on it.

    GreatSword
    Whirling Wrath: Good suggestion but I'd also remove the projectiles and just merge the damage
    Binding Blade: Good suggestion.

    Scepter
    Scepter Auto: Good suggestion, being within range and still missing is terrible. This should hit barring any invulns,blocks,evades,blinds, ect.

    Sword
    Symbol: Not sure how I feel about it.

    Axe:
    Symbol of Vengeance: Disagree, it works considering how offensive this weapon is.

    Traits:
    As a whole, I wholeheartedly disagree, I feel like Guardian has some of the worst traits in the game. Check this: Valor is SUPPOSED to be the defensive-line, right? Funny thing is, Honor does it FAR better and to your own teammates no less. That's just one example.

    Virtues:
    Forget attaching it to Courage, just give it to us already.

    Honor:
    Disagree with the Writ of Persistence suggestion. Symbols are already small as it is and they're not nearly as front-loaded as say Marks/Wells for example. Outside of FB, Core and DH have VERY few ways of keeping an enemy inside a symbol much less the benefit being significant enough to stand in it.

    Skills:
    Hammer of Wisdom: This suggestion wouldn't do much, it would still be incredibly useless.

    Mantra of Truth: Bad suggestion, here's why: Guardian has low hp, no safety traits, no stealth, less-than-average mobility, no evades on skills nor any instant invulns. This skill actually helps FB stay alive from all the Rampage and power-spike BS. Not to mention the charge-up time on every mantra is almost 3 seconds. Not to mention this is really the only source that allows Guardian to stick on their opponents due to the massive lack of cripples,chill and immobs for example.

    Signet of Mercy: This is the only useful Signet Guardian has. I could see increasing the cd a tad but not almost doubling it.

    Again, I appreciate the suggestions but a lot of these don't do much and would probably hinder Guardian more. Forgive me if I'm a tad biased, these are just my opinions.

    Thank you for your time.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.
    I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.

    Guardian

    sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers.
    At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed.

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    #2 Whirling Wrath - It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability

    #5 Binding Blade - Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone

    Scepter

    Never really been used at all in PvP

    #1 Orb of Wrath - Once again, slow moving projectile.

    I got this far, and remembered why I alt+f4 as quick as I can knock out daily's then go code.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.