Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates - Page 21 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

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  • They dont work, they punnish people who use legendary weapons by doing bullkitten like automatically removing the sigils and infusions from your weapons each time you try to change your weapon set (I have the default 2 tabs). Its horrible. I wish I could just have no templates again like before. It was MUCH less hassle WITHOUT the garbage template system.

  • Trading my templates for an additional bag slot! 🙄

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2019

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    They dont work, they punnish people who use legendary weapons by doing bullkitten like automatically removing the sigils and infusions from your weapons each time you try to change your weapon set (I have the default 2 tabs). Its horrible. I wish I could just have no templates again like before. It was MUCH less hassle WITHOUT the garbage template system.

    Does this also happen when I use my legendary only in one of my two templates loadouts?
    Not that I have one yet.

  • @Poormany.4507 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:
    Tell that to all the people who demanded the feature in the first place, despite constant warnings of exactly this happening.

    Most people who wanted build templates (not loadouts), myself included, were expecting a system similar to GW1 and/or the now blocked ArcDPS plugin: easy to understand and use, no cluttered/complicated interface, and most importantly unlimited and free template storage. We didn't get any of that, hence many people are justifiably upset and want other options and/or for the current system to get a major revamp. The current system seemed to have been rushed out for quick monetization without making sure it is up to quality and player expectations/feedback.

    This.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The new system did exactly what I expected and what I wanted. For my necromancer here I can swap between different reaper skill loadouts, as well a different itemset with a staff on swap. So I consider it a success.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    Works fine and well but without a “how to” it can be confusing to those who can’t figure things out on their own.

    Actaully its totally non working garbage if you use legendary weapons and have to swap weapons in and out of weapon slots, because it automatically removes your sigils and infusions on them each time, its a kitten nightmare.

    It is working but why are you swapping weapons out of your load out? Pre-stacking buffs?

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's actually very clever - the stuff on the left with the icon on it is Schrodinger's items - they are both items and not items at the same time - you can use them in multiple loadouts. Easy, right?

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • I agree. This system is garbage. You should have tested with actual users instead of the just the people who designed it before making it live. Then you would have seen how poorly designed it is, particularly for a pay feature that we already had a working free version of! Stupid.

  • Heibi.4251Heibi.4251 Member ✭✭✭

    After the holiday break I would like to see an update and some possible answers to the multitude of questions and feedback you received, ANET:
    Here are three core questions I'd like to see answered:
    1. Cost - Are you going to lower the cost of adding "templates"? The Vast Majority believe this feature is too expensive. If you are going keep it that way, at least make the purchases ACCOUNT WIDE. It makes no sense for people to purchase dozens if not hundreds of expansions to a feature for separate characters. I for one stopped at the primary characters I use and will not spend another dime/gem on templates at this time unless this is addressed.
    2. Legendary Equipment fix - Are you addressing the Legendary equipment problem when we swap in equipment? This feature was supposed make switching builds easier, but it does not do this.
    3. Are you going to lock the builds or give us a check box that locks the builds so that simply switching a piece of equipment or a skill doesn't alter a "saved" build?

    Henge of Denravi Commander
    CA/CH/HOD/AIR

  • @LucianDK.8615 said:
    The new system did exactly what I expected and what I wanted. For my necromancer here I can swap between different reaper skill loadouts, as well a different itemset with a staff on swap. So I consider it a success.

    It's great that you're happy - but from what you describe your expectations are so much lower than everybody else that the new system couldn't help but fall over the line for you. If all you've tried of it is the one small part you wanted, and that part happens to work for you, that's really meaningless as a review. What do you think of the whole thing? Do you have multiple toons? Have you tried setting up layouts for more than one toon? Have you had to buy more slots? What do you think of the cost? Have you tried different specialisations on different slots? Have you tried using legendaries with this system? There are 20 pages in the official thread that testify to people who have tried these things and found them wanting. What are your thoughts?

    And, yes, this should be in the official thread.

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ehh, its made for newer users with a few toons. I can't see Anet making this cheap for those of us with 30 plus toons, we are already adept at this stuff.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2019

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    Works fine and well but without a “how to” it can be confusing to those who can’t figure things out on their own.

    Actaully its totally non working garbage if you use legendary weapons and have to swap weapons in and out of weapon slots, because it automatically removes your sigils and infusions on them each time, its a kitten nightmare.

    It is working but why are you swapping weapons out of your load out? Pre-stacking buffs?

    Actually, No Its NOT working. Specifically, I use primarily Legendary weapons and armor. I have 2 templates I can use for weapon sets, but I have MANY more than 2 weapon setups I use even within 1 trait line "build". When I move a weapon from inventory to a weapon slot due to the new garbage system, EVERY KITTEN TIME I MOVE A WEAPON FROM A WEAPON SLOT THE SIGIL DROPS OUT OF IT AND THE INFUSION TOO. THIS MEANS EVERY TIME I PUT A DIFFERENT WEAPON INTO A WEAPON SLOT I ALSO HAVE TO REAPPLY SIGILS AND INFUSIONS._ THIS ONLY HAPPENS WITH LEGENDARY GEAR_. How the Kitten can u say that is working!?!?!?! Its totally broken nightmare garbage. ALL IT DID WAS MAKE IT TAKE MORE TIME AND BE MORE CONFUSING FOR ME TO CHANGE WEAPONS VS THE OLD BASIC SYSTEM.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    one bonus Ive noticed, is that you need less infusions.
    Lets say you have a staff in equipment template 1, with 2 infusions. in template 2, you have a main hand and an offhand. They will share the infusions. So you only need two instead of four when you flip between the loadouts.

    only if you have ledgendary.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    use more equipment templates to flip between different equipment loadouts, instead of manually changing gear. Lets say if you have 3 different legendary offhands in 3 different equipment templates. Then youd only need one sigil of impact and one +5 power infusion. The selection gets shared between all 3

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    use more equipment templates to flip between different equipment loadouts, instead of manually changing gear. Lets say if you have 3 different legendary offhands in 3 different equipment templates. Then youd only need one sigil of impact and one +5 power infusion. The selection gets shared between all 3

    I don't think that many people have 3 ledgie offhands. That's defintely not the way to show build templates are useful for the average player.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    use more equipment templates to flip between different equipment loadouts, instead of manually changing gear. Lets say if you have 3 different legendary offhands in 3 different equipment templates. Then youd only need one sigil of impact and one +5 power infusion. The selection gets shared between all 3

    This doesnt happen from my experience, quite the opposite. I have a sigil, and infusion in each legendary and EVERY time I place one into my weapon slot it IS EMPTY of sigils and infusions untill I manually place them AGAIN. EVERY TIME

    For instance if I am using a staff then I drop the staff to place frostfang into my primary weapon slot frostfang will have no sigil or infusion. Its just total kitten kitten.

    Another example: Secret Lair, I will use focus offhand to stack mobs, then swap it out for pistol offhand for better cc for freezy. I have to remember to put an energy sigil and infusion back into quip or its empty and I lose the benefits of the sigils Im expecting.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    use more equipment templates to flip between different equipment loadouts, instead of manually changing gear. Lets say if you have 3 different legendary offhands in 3 different equipment templates. Then youd only need one sigil of impact and one +5 power infusion. The selection gets shared between all 3

    This doesnt happen from my experience, quite the opposite. I have a sigil, and infusion in each legendary and EVERY time I place one into my weapon slot it IS EMPTY of sigils and infusions untill I manually place them AGAIN. EVERY TIME

    For instance if I am using a staff then I drop the staff to place frostfang into my primary weapon slot frostfang will have no sigil or infusion. Its just total kitten kitten

    do you have each ledgie in a seperate template?

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    use more equipment templates to flip between different equipment loadouts, instead of manually changing gear. Lets say if you have 3 different legendary offhands in 3 different equipment templates. Then youd only need one sigil of impact and one +5 power infusion. The selection gets shared between all 3

    This doesnt happen from my experience, quite the opposite. I have a sigil, and infusion in each legendary and EVERY time I place one into my weapon slot it IS EMPTY of sigils and infusions untill I manually place them AGAIN. EVERY TIME

    let me tell you how to do it right then.
    Make sure ALL equipment templates are empty in that slot. Take your legendary, fill it with stuff, and go to first equipment template page. Put the legendary in the slot. Go to page two. Take your second legendary from the sidebar and slot it in through it on the weapon slot. Drag infusion and sigil to it as well from sidebar. Now the 2 offhands shares the same infusion and sigil, and only needing one set. Can be repeated with more offhands in additional template slots.

  • Right now I have the default 2 templates and zero interest or intention of buying more. I have both tabs setup with my 2 most common weapon setups. Any time I use anything else I have to deal with replacing the sigils and infusions on every weapon I move. It is really really aggravating.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Right now I have the default 2 templates and zero interest or intention of buying more. I have both tabs setup with my 2 most common weapon setups. Any time I use anything else I have to deal with replacing the sigils and infusions on every weapon I move. It is really really aggravating.

    then farm gokd..buy more? or use exotic/ascended

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    It does work, I have 4 template slots for my reaper
    Eternity + Astralaria - Verdarach
    Eternity + Bifrost
    Eternity + Astralaria - Incinerazor
    Eternity + Astralaria + Binding of Ipos
    Significantly cuts down on the numbers of infusions and sigils needed if using alike ones in all sets.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @Nick.5276 said:
    You are correct that people don’t have to buy into the system. People HAVE TO USE the new system though if they are to get back any of the functionality Anet took away to implement the new system. To get any BENEFIT of the new system you DO HAVE to buy into it. By changing how the game functions they have manipulated the environment to exclude other options.

    WOAH WOAH ... this is NOT correct. I can and STILL manually swap to have 'build templates' on certain characters ... or simply swap characters that I've created of the same class with different builds. No option that existed as part of the game for 'swapping builds' has been excluded by build templates. Functionality was NOT removed or taken away because that functionality was never part of the game itself. Even if you want to argue that doesn't matter, Anet did not remove it ... the creator did that under agreement with Anet.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @LucianDK.8615 said:
    It does work, I have 4 template slots for my reaper
    Eternity + Astralaria - Verdarach
    Eternity + Bifrost
    Eternity + Astralaria - Incinerazor
    Eternity + Astralaria + Binding of Ipos
    Significantly cuts down on the numbers of infusions and sigils needed if using alike ones in all sets.

    THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT THAT IT DOES NOT. I repeat DOES NOT WORK! You are using 4 templates do be able to change weapons without it dropping your sigils and infusions. CONGRATULATIONS ON PROVING MY POINT. ITS KITTEN BROKEN!

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    The entire point of what I am saying WHICH IS 100% true, repeatable, fact is that when you swap weapons in and out to the SAME weapon slots WITHIN a template IT KITTENING REMOVES THE KITTEN sigils and infusions when the weapon is removed causing any weapon placed back to always be empty. ALWAYS. WHAT AREN'T YOU UNDERSTANDING!?!?!

    You cannot even buy enough templates for every possible combo, not that anyone should. NO ONE Should have to BUY ANY templates to have legendary weapons NOT be a pain in the kitten to use.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    The new system did exactly what I expected and what I wanted. For my necromancer here I can swap between different reaper skill loadouts, as well a different itemset with a staff on swap. So I consider it a success.

    Of course, as long as you don't use legendary items in more than one loadout, let alone the confusing use of legendary upgrades...

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UnDeadFun.5824 said:

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    As we sign off for our annual holiday break, we’re wishing you and yours a splendid season. In 2019, you brought down Kralkatorrik, defeated Qadim the Peerless, attended the biggest charr party ever as a guest of honor, and faced treachery in the Far Shiverpeaks. You’ve befriended skyscales, bonded with Raven, tackled four Strike Missions, and kicked back at festivals throughout the year.

    Now it’s time to rest, relax, and look forward to what comes next! Before we head home to spend time with our families, we wanted to give members of the Guild Wars 2 team an opportunity to talk about these updates in their own words. Read more here!

    At least we have a clear roadmap to show us they are never going to address the real issues with templates. :/

    I think if changed it's considered a bugfix/ QoL patch , so it wouldn't fall under "content" updates.
    (PvP / WvW "content" = balance and possibly new map or tournament , PvE content = living story with strike mission + festivals unless they add a fractal/raid)
    For example, the December 3rd 2019 patch fixed the game mode switching hassle to an extent since it remembers the build and equipment template last used. In addition, the out of combat weapon swap means you could use sword+dagger on a weaver as well as staff on one template ; sword+pistol alongside rifle for holos and hammer + pistol+shield for support scrappers. If you play WvW you're better off with a separate character though.

    As far as monetization goes, that would never fall under content. I find it more alarming legendary weapons are basically made into really expensive skins: unlike armor, backpiece, and trinkets you aren't likely to make use of it in more than a few stat combinations per weapon type. If you have 5-6 tabs the armor could be worth it.

    Refer to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1105123#Comment_1105123
    which announced the reintroduction of the game mode switch feature

    and https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099265/#Comment_1099265
    which includes " Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters. , Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates."

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nick.5276 said:
    You are correct that people don’t have to buy into the system. People HAVE TO USE the new system though if they are to get back any of the functionality Anet took away to implement the new system. To get any BENEFIT of the new system you DO HAVE to buy into it. By changing how the game functions they have manipulated the environment to exclude other options.

    WOAH WOAH ... this is NOT correct. I can and STILL manually swap to have 'build templates' on certain characters ... or simply swap characters that I've created of the same class with different builds. No option that existed as part of the game for 'swapping builds' has been excluded by build templates. Functionality was NOT removed or taken away because that functionality was never part of the game itself. Even if you want to argue that doesn't matter, Anet did not remove it ... the creator did that under agreement with Anet.

    Well, I played a version of the game that included ARC Templates. This was, in fact, explicitly excluded by Anet's BS version.
    It's much, much worse now.
    It's shameful really.

  • Rattengeist.8165Rattengeist.8165 Member ✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @Blindefender.9834 said:
    The armor load out shares the same equipment. So I had a set up in the 1st slot, then I went to build a 2nd slot. I only had 4 of 6 pieces to start my 2nd set, but I noticed the system auto-filled the missing 2 pieces with equipment from #1 . I thought great, I can use 2 pieces from #1 until I can afford to complete the new #2 set. Then I bought 6 runes for the new 2nd set. I installed them on the new #2 set, replacing the random older runes on the new pieces to get the set bonus. I then switched back to #1 for awhile, and noticed my 6 set bonus was gone.

    Were you using Legendary Equipment?
    If not, then this outcome was 100% to be expected. Just because you're using a piece from set #1 at set #2, doesn't mean it's two different items that you can freely customize. It's completely the same item. If you change the rune in one piece of equipment, it will also change in the other templates. That's how non-legendary armor works and it's the reason why legendary armor exists - it makes it possible to switch, mix 'n match runes and sigils without deleting the runes itself.

    So TL;DR If you want to swap runes and use different runes in the same item but in different equipment tabs, you need legendary armor.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nick.5276 said:
    You are correct that people don’t have to buy into the system. People HAVE TO USE the new system though if they are to get back any of the functionality Anet took away to implement the new system. To get any BENEFIT of the new system you DO HAVE to buy into it. By changing how the game functions they have manipulated the environment to exclude other options.

    WOAH WOAH ... this is NOT correct. I can and STILL manually swap to have 'build templates' on certain characters ... or simply swap characters that I've created of the same class with different builds. No option that existed as part of the game for 'swapping builds' has been excluded by build templates. Functionality was NOT removed or taken away because that functionality was never part of the game itself. Even if you want to argue that doesn't matter, Anet did not remove it ... the creator did that under agreement with Anet.

    Well, I played a version of the game that included ARC Templates. This was, in fact, explicitly excluded by Anet's BS version.
    It's much, much worse now.
    It's shameful really.

    No, you didn't because ARC Templates were not part of GW2; they were a third party add on. Also, Anet's version of the game didn't exclude ARC ... the creator of ARC removed them in agreement with Anet. Being honest here is VERY important in this discussion. There is nothing shameful about Anet protecting their IP.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nick.5276 said:
    You are correct that people don’t have to buy into the system. People HAVE TO USE the new system though if they are to get back any of the functionality Anet took away to implement the new system. To get any BENEFIT of the new system you DO HAVE to buy into it. By changing how the game functions they have manipulated the environment to exclude other options.

    WOAH WOAH ... this is NOT correct. I can and STILL manually swap to have 'build templates' on certain characters ... or simply swap characters that I've created of the same class with different builds. No option that existed as part of the game for 'swapping builds' has been excluded by build templates. Functionality was NOT removed or taken away because that functionality was never part of the game itself. Even if you want to argue that doesn't matter, Anet did not remove it ... the creator did that under agreement with Anet.

    Well, I played a version of the game that included ARC Templates. This was, in fact, explicitly excluded by Anet's BS version.
    It's much, much worse now.
    It's shameful really.

    No, you didn't because ARC Templates were not part of GW2; they were a third party add on. Also, Anet's version of the game didn't exclude ARC ... the creator of ARC removed them in agreement with Anet. Being honest here is VERY important in this discussion. There is nothing shameful about Anet protecting their IP.

    I didn't mention them being ashamed about protecting their IP, you did.
    I'm well aware of the agreement deltconnected made with Anet.
    Are you sure pedantry isn't more important than honesty here?
    Out of interest, were you an ARC Templates user?

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    They dont work, they punnish people who use legendary weapons by doing bullkitten like automatically removing the sigils and infusions from your weapons each time you try to change your weapon set

    That was fixed when Episode 1 of the Icebrood Saga released.

    @UnDeadFun.5824 said:
    At least we have a clear roadmap to show us they are never going to address the real issues with templates. :/

    I doubt it. They said the templates system's problems were going to be addressed and they will be. Polishing already released content doesn't count as new content. ;)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @Blindefender.9834 said:

    @Tzarakiel.7490 said:
    The wardrobe system has been in the game for almost 6 years. I think you mean the build template system.

    Yeah you're right. I mean the equipment load out system. I wonder if I can edit my post. Probably not.

    LOL. Ironically, the Wardrobe system has its issues as well. But that's a post for another day.

    Cheers!

    Imagine if people would have said this about the wardrobe system too and Anet had deleted it.

    You want to use a legendary skin on your exotic berserker sword?

    No problems, just build a new legendary, then destroy that legendary by combining the exotic sword stats with the legendary skin.

    Oh and that new weapon is now soulbound and you can never move the legendary skin to another character.

    Have fun.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    They dont work, they punnish people who use legendary weapons by doing bullkitten like automatically removing the sigils and infusions from your weapons each time you try to change your weapon set

    That was fixed when Episode 1 of the Icebrood Saga released.

    No it wasn't. It still removes upgrades from legendary weapons if you swap them on the fly.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    No, you didn't because ARC Templates were not part of GW2; they were a third party add on. Also, Anet's version of the game didn't exclude ARC ... the creator of ARC removed them in agreement with Anet. Being honest here is VERY important in this discussion. There is nothing shameful about Anet protecting their IP.

    Since we are being honest...

    • ANet permitted ARC templates for a lengthy period of time.
    • ANet presented their own system, which lacks a lot of the functionality provided by the ARC version. The ANet system also limits the number of load-outs per character. This means that ANet's system suffers by comparison.
    • To fully maximize the available ANet system for one character would cost more than ANet charged for the game expansion, Path of Fire.
    • To fully maximize the available ANet system across 9 professions would cost hundreds of pounds/euros/dollars.

    "Shameful" is a value judgment. Protecting intellectual property? Sure, not shameful to me, either. Failing to provide a system that would at least be competitive with the free system they permitted and charging more than the price of an expansion to make use of it for one character? This is just another example of gaming companies providing inferior products and charging through the nose for it.

    And before you trot out, "Vote with your wallet." ... I am. But, voting with the wallet is not effective unless you also tell the company why. Games are too complex for a company to infer that a single factor is the cause of failure to spend.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    The entire point of what I am saying WHICH IS 100% true, repeatable, fact is that when you swap weapons in and out to the SAME weapon slots WITHIN a template IT KITTENING REMOVES THE KITTEN sigils and infusions when the weapon is removed causing any weapon placed back to always be empty. ALWAYS. WHAT AREN'T YOU UNDERSTANDING!?!?!

    You cannot even buy enough templates for every possible combo, not that anyone should. NO ONE Should have to BUY ANY templates to have legendary weapons NOT be a pain in the kitten to use.

    Calm down. I was merely explaining how it works with legendary weapons. And I find it pretty good to need much fewer infusions. Stat infusions are way too overcosted.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    The new system did exactly what I expected and what I wanted. For my necromancer here I can swap between different reaper skill loadouts, as well a different itemset with a staff on swap. So I consider it a success.

    Of course, as long as you don't use legendary items in more than one loadout, let alone the confusing use of legendary upgrades...

    Not true, for everything BUT weapons, legendary items are superior to ascended as far as customization goes (outside of the wardrobe system, which allows more setups on multiple different templates) for a single character with no matter how many build templates.

    The issue with weapons is ONLY if you remove them from the template (such as when blasting or prestacking boons in PvE or GvG) which will result in sigils being kept in the template system, thus removing them from the weapon. This can be circumvented if different weapons are stored in different equipment tabs as to not have the weapon dropped into the inventory.

    Legendary armor and trinkets are superior to ascended (outside of the wardrobe issue, which I personally find unfortunate since I like having different looks for different roles) for working WITHIN the template system since all legendary items allow for:

    • different stats in different templates
    • different runes/infusions in different setups
    • easy fast stat changing to one single stat (by changing all armor or all trinkets to the same stat)

    The issue with legendary items is ONLY when they get fully removed from the template system for:

    • pre combat blasting on different weapons
    • using the same legendary gear (armor, trinkets or weapons) across multiple characters
  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    The new system did exactly what I expected and what I wanted. For my necromancer here I can swap between different reaper skill loadouts, as well a different itemset with a staff on swap. So I consider it a success.

    Of course, as long as you don't use legendary items in more than one loadout, let alone the confusing use of legendary upgrades...

    Not true, for everything BUT weapons, legendary items are superior to ascended as far as customization goes (outside of the wardrobe system, which allows more setups on multiple different templates) for a single character with no matter how many build templates.

    The issue with weapons is ONLY if you remove them from the template (such as when blasting or prestacking boons in PvE or GvG) which will result in sigils being kept in the template system, thus removing them from the weapon. This can be circumvented if different weapons are stored in different equipment tabs as to not have the weapon dropped into the inventory.

    Legendary armor and trinkets are superior to ascended (outside of the wardrobe issue, which I personally find unfortunate since I like having different looks for different roles) for working WITHIN the template system since all legendary items allow for:

    • different stats in different templates
    • different runes/infusions in different setups
    • easy fast stat changing to one single stat (by changing all armor or all trinkets to the same stat)

    The issue with legendary items is ONLY when they get fully removed from the template system for:

    • pre combat blasting on different weapons
    • using the same legendary gear (armor, trinkets or weapons) across multiple characters

    I think you mean you are manually swapping legendary weapons instead of flipping between different templates? Yes, that does mess up templates if you dont have enough for all your weapons. I have enough templates myself and it swaps correctly between my four weapons presets as said earlier in the thready

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2019

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nick.5276 said:
    You are correct that people don’t have to buy into the system. People HAVE TO USE the new system though if they are to get back any of the functionality Anet took away to implement the new system. To get any BENEFIT of the new system you DO HAVE to buy into it. By changing how the game functions they have manipulated the environment to exclude other options.

    WOAH WOAH ... this is NOT correct. I can and STILL manually swap to have 'build templates' on certain characters ... or simply swap characters that I've created of the same class with different builds. No option that existed as part of the game for 'swapping builds' has been excluded by build templates. Functionality was NOT removed or taken away because that functionality was never part of the game itself. Even if you want to argue that doesn't matter, Anet did not remove it ... the creator did that under agreement with Anet.

    Well, I played a version of the game that included ARC Templates. This was, in fact, explicitly excluded by Anet's BS version.
    It's much, much worse now.
    It's shameful really.

    No, you didn't because ARC Templates were not part of GW2; they were a third party add on. Also, Anet's version of the game didn't exclude ARC ... the creator of ARC removed them in agreement with Anet. Being honest here is VERY important in this discussion. There is nothing shameful about Anet protecting their IP.

    I didn't mention them being ashamed about protecting their IP, you did.
    I'm well aware of the agreement deltconnected made with Anet.
    Are you sure pedantry isn't more important than honesty here?
    Out of interest, were you an ARC Templates user?

    This isn't pedantry. It's just being impartial. You said "It's shameful really." Clearly, you don't realize this whole issue is ALL about Anet's IP protection; there was NO other reason for them to implement this feature so late in the game in the first place except to protect that IP. And yes, protecting your IP is about making some money, just in case you think i'm trying to obfuscate the discussion. Making money is a major reason to protect your IP as a business. If there wasn't some revenue to be made, we would still be using ARC.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2019

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    No, you didn't because ARC Templates were not part of GW2; they were a third party add on. Also, Anet's version of the game didn't exclude ARC ... the creator of ARC removed them in agreement with Anet. Being honest here is VERY important in this discussion. There is nothing shameful about Anet protecting their IP.

    Since we are being honest...

    • ANet permitted ARC templates for a lengthy period of time.
    • ANet presented their own system, which lacks a lot of the functionality provided by the ARC version. The ANet system also limits the number of load-outs per character. This means that ANet's system suffers by comparison.
    • To fully maximize the available ANet system for one character would cost more than ANet charged for the game expansion, Path of Fire.
    • To fully maximize the available ANet system across 9 professions would cost hundreds of pounds/euros/dollars.

    "Shameful" is a value judgment. Protecting intellectual property? Sure, not shameful to me, either. Failing to provide a system that would at least be competitive with the free system they permitted and charging more than the price of an expansion to make use of it for one character? This is just another example of gaming companies providing inferior products and charging through the nose for it.

    And before you trot out, "Vote with your wallet." ... I am. But, voting with the wallet is not effective unless you also tell the company why. Games are too complex for a company to infer that a single factor is the cause of failure to spend.

    I can't disagree that the templates as is, are not as well done as ARC but it's not unreasonable to think that the result is based on working within the framework of the game, both how it's managed and the actual code. Those two things that ARC DIDN'T have to contend with ... and that impact was obvious. Sure, tell Anet why but don't pretend that the constraints don't exist. Charging through the nose? As I always predicted, this feature would be inline with any other feature related to 'storage' available on the GS. The value is right on. We've already been through this ... there was NEVER any way that this could have competed with a 'free' feature because this is a business and ARC was not. Clearly, applying your standard of competition is unreasonable.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2019

    @Nick.5276 said:
    For Sobx.1758

    **I thought I would point out some friction/pinch points you have missed which lead you to believe you are not causing people distress or offence when you respond.

    Much of what you claim is not your fault is drawn from implications based on your choice of language and phrase. An implication is a logical conclusion based on previous evidence and statements, hence why at least one person believes you are indeed, implying things.
    **

    I don't care what they believe, if they try to say I'm calling them "stupid" because I said "it's their problem", then... you know, it's their problem.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1117929/#Comment_1117929
    All he did there was put words I didn't use in my mouth just so he can play a victim. Since when is "if you can't remember your builds then it's your problem" the same as "you're a terrible player" or "you're too stupid to play the game"? It has literally nothing to do with each other, put your build on a stick-it note and you're done (as I wrote before: "Worst case scenario, grab a pen, piece of paper and get over it."), but hey, it's better to pretend I offended him so much because that's the easiest way out when he had nothing to say.

    Also your formatting choice is nearly unreadable. And -to make it absolutely clear- it's not an insult and doesn't say anything about your state of mind or personality. Start using quotations/formatting that's available on the forum.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    I expected ANet would look at ARC and ask, "How can we provide at least this much functionality or even improve on it?" Looking at the result, it's clear that they either never asked that question, or fell woefully short if they did ask it. I find it ironic that you can admit that the ANet product is inferior, but can then bend over backwards to try to support them providing so little.

    That is definitely a reasonable expectation but if you actually expect this from Anet, you will always be disappointed. They are all about quantity over quality.

    Time gates = content

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Nick.5276 said:
    You are correct that people don’t have to buy into the system. People HAVE TO USE the new system though if they are to get back any of the functionality Anet took away to implement the new system. To get any BENEFIT of the new system you DO HAVE to buy into it. By changing how the game functions they have manipulated the environment to exclude other options.

    WOAH WOAH ... this is NOT correct. I can and STILL manually swap to have 'build templates' on certain characters ... or simply swap characters that I've created of the same class with different builds. No option that existed as part of the game for 'swapping builds' has been excluded by build templates. Functionality was NOT removed or taken away because that functionality was never part of the game itself. Even if you want to argue that doesn't matter, Anet did not remove it ... the creator did that under agreement with Anet.

    Well, I played a version of the game that included ARC Templates. This was, in fact, explicitly excluded by Anet's BS version.
    It's much, much worse now.
    It's shameful really.

    No, you didn't because ARC Templates were not part of GW2; they were a third party add on. Also, Anet's version of the game didn't exclude ARC ... the creator of ARC removed them in agreement with Anet. Being honest here is VERY important in this discussion. There is nothing shameful about Anet protecting their IP.

    I didn't mention them being ashamed about protecting their IP, you did.
    I'm well aware of the agreement deltconnected made with Anet.
    Are you sure pedantry isn't more important than honesty here?
    Out of interest, were you an ARC Templates user?

    This isn't pedantry. It's just being impartial. You said "It's shameful really." Clearly, you don't realize this whole issue is ALL about Anet's IP protection; there was NO other reason for them to implement this feature so late in the game in the first place except to protect that IP. And yes, protecting your IP is about making some money, just in case you think i'm trying to obfuscate the discussion. Making money is a major reason to protect your IP as a business. If there wasn't some revenue to be made, we would still be using ARC.

    You keep making wrong assumptions about what I do and do not understand.

    Now, for the avoidance of doubt... do you believe that the approach Anet has taken to 'protecting their IP' in this instance is acceptable? Quality, execution, value.

    To be clear, I do not. Not in terms of quality of product, and certainly not in terms of price point and value for money relative to that quality.

    Also, you didn't answer my previous question. There appears to be a very sharp divide between the opinions of those people who did use ARC and those that didn't. And there's no mystery about that. ARC was simply better, and I don't mean free (although it was that, too).

    Finally, I am not remotely interested in impartiality. I am not impartial in this. I was partial to a bit of ARC with my GW2, and I'm deeply upset now that it's off the menu since the alternative is so unpalatable and overpriced.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    Also, you didn't answer my previous question. There appears to be a very sharp divide between the opinions of those people who did use ARC and those that didn't. And there's no mystery about that. ARC was simply better, and I don't mean free (although it was that, too).

    And its the same reason on the non-arc side - templates are simply better and you get free inventory space. When those that dont use arc outweigh those that do by probably 1,000:1 or something there is no mystery anywhere.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    Also, you didn't answer my previous question. There appears to be a very sharp divide between the opinions of those people who did use ARC and those that didn't. And there's no mystery about that. ARC was simply better, and I don't mean free (although it was that, too).

    And its the same reason on the non-arc side - templates are simply better and you get free inventory space. When those that dont use arc outweigh those that do by probably 1,000:1 or something there is no mystery anywhere.

    I think you missed my point. I don't dispute that the new, so-called templates are better than none. My point is that those people who had no experience of using ARC Templates have nothing against which to compare Anet's rubbish; they have a very narrow frame of reference.
    Some people appear to be satisfied with that, and with what they got. That doesn't surprise me - it's disappointing, but not surprising.
    Other people, myself included, are deeply dissatified. And not through any lack of understanding. Quite the opposite.
    This is the Official Feedback Thread About Build & Equipment Templates.
    I believe I'm in the right place.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This could be argued forever because of the dipolarity of the perspectives. The one fact remains that will ALWAYS be there; the risk to use third party software is on the player. This all comes down to a bunch of people who think they are getting screwed over because of a baseline they established for themselves and an expectation they set for Anet from using 3rd party software. That is part of the risk and this is an excellent example of what happens when that risk becomes reality for players who can't accept it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @BlackyWarsX.5384 said:
    Dear diary, it's me! Laganja! With another fever dream!

    The last few days / weeks I've been thinking about how to improve build templates loadouts even more, you know, making them actual templates. I already did a first mockup a while back, but then I thought: "The hero window needs an overhaul!".

    Tha base for this overhaul came to mind when I took a look at gw2skills.net and their editor. It shows so much useful information and I took a lot of inspiration from it:

    • effects (boons, conditions, cc, etc) your build is capable of
    • a short overview of specs you're using in the current build
    • upgrades visible in their own slot

    So I sat down (again), opened Photoshop and started to move things around, scrap some stuff, add some new stuff and some things came around.

    As usual, a

    disclaimer

    This is just a design concept. I don't know how hard it would be to implement, I just played with the interface
    Full gallery on imgur

    Rearranging the Hero Panel

    Some major things have changed in the hero panel! There is no longer an extra "skills and trait" menu and two new menus were added: mounts and travel.


    From top to bottom this would be:
    1. Equipment (Inventory)
    2. Armory (Templates)
    3. Training
    4. Mounts
    5. Travel (all your teleport items and unlocks are available here)
    6. Journal
    7. Crafting
    8. Achievements
    9. Masteries

    The equipment menu

    Equipment

    The equipment menu is just your regular gear / inventory. It has changed quite a bit!


    The left side shows your characters information (name, level, class) along with your currently loaded template and a preview of your templates specs. Just below that are your attributes and settings.

    On the right side is the "effect summary". It shows what your build is capable of doing: boons, conditions, cc, buffs, combo-fields and combo finishers.


    Below that is the expandable inventory. It shows up whenever you want to change stuff around.

    In the center is your character and their gear. I placed some more slots for upgrades and infusions next to the gear. Right now it's more of a... "visual support" to easily see if/what upgrades your gear has slotted. There's also a new "customize" button which shows up if you select an armor piece or weapon.


    You can open it to select stats, upgrades and infusions (depending on your gear, of course). The inventory panel on the right adapts to whatever your selection needs (stats, infusions, upgrades, gear).


    I was thinking about adding a toggle for upgrades to show/hide the upgrade slots, but I'm not happy with it right now.

    This is your equipment.
    It's based on your currently loaded template, but does not change your template once you decide to change weapons or stats on the fly. This is where settings come into play: If you ever decide to save your changes, you can...

    • ... override your currently loaded template
    • ... save a new template
    • ... revert any changes and reload your current template

    by the way: gathering tools and glyphs are now also part of your build.

    Builds

    Builds look different, too! Instead of being horizontal, I arranged them vertically and removed a lot of unused white space to make them more compact (also I had to because otherwise they would not have fit into the area).


    Below your specializations are your characters skills. It shows what weapon types you've equipped in your weapon sets and let's you change your utility skills.


    Selecting a slot opens up the skills & traits window with pre-defined filters for that slot, in this case 'healing skills'.


    You can also toggle between aquatic and terrestrial environments.

    Wardrobe

    The wardrobe is now part of your build, too! Since specializations and gear is not important for the wardrobe, the window looks a little bit different from the rest.


    Now you don't apply skins to items, you apply skins to gear slots. This way you can change your gear around, but keep all your settings (skin, dyes). Applying skins to slots requires transmutation charges as usual, loading templates does not use any charges, though.

    Novelties are just skins with functions, so I moved them to the wardrobe as well. You can now set chairs, toys, finishers and minis according to your style of build as well.

    The Armory

    The armory contains all your saved builds. Your list of builds is on the left, your stat and effect summary is on the right with your characters information about gear, traits and skins in the center. You can choose which build is your default PvE, WvW and PvP build and edit your templates or delete them.

    Your build list will change to the inventory panel once you edit a template.
    In the top left, above the inventory, you can change the name of the build.
    In the top right, you can set a gamemode for your build.

    The center looks and behaves exactly like the equipment screen.
    Any changes must be saved to take effect.

    Mounts

    Mounts now get their own submenu in the hero panel.
    I created two versions but I'm not quite happy with either. They are also an early draft.
    I also added a "dummy" underwater mount just because we don't have one yet.

    Version 1

    An overview of all of your unlocked mounts is on the right side.

    Choosing a mount will open the skins & dyes panel for this mount and shows their skin slot and dye channel.
    It also shows a short description and your unlocked skills for this mount.

    Version 2

    All your mounts are laid accross the window, showing their icon, image, and their engage skill.

    Choosing a mount will fade out all the others and moves your selection to the left. The engage skill becomes a "back" button.
    The center area now shows your mount slot, dye channel, a preview and skills. The right side shows your skin and dye collection.

    Travel

    Unfortunately no screen here.

    This panel would list all your unlocked teleports.
    Things that would show up here:

    • Tomes
    • Teleport to Home Instance
    • VIP Lounges
    • Word Boss Devices

    A final note

    Again, these are just mockups. There needs to be more usecase evaluations and usability tests, as well as some warning messages when you change stuff. There's a lot to be thought of.

    Also: I know this will probably never happen. But I did it anyway.

    Worth quoting for value, I hope a dev does see this and it doesn't just get lost in some of the narrow arguments on the semantics.

    Incidentally it's perfectly possible to have not been using arc templates, and still dislike both the broken and narrow implementation of the new loadouts and their dreadful monetization that would cost hundreds of pounds across 20+ characters.

    Also, are Revenants working with templates yet?

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    The new system did exactly what I expected and what I wanted. For my necromancer here I can swap between different reaper skill loadouts, as well a different itemset with a staff on swap. So I consider it a success.

    Of course, as long as you don't use legendary items in more than one loadout, let alone the confusing use of legendary upgrades...

    Not true, for everything BUT weapons, legendary items are superior to ascended as far as customization goes

    I wasn't talking about customization but the mess we had with the ejecting of upgrades, resetting stats to blank etc. It was a nightmare that got fixed several weeks ago.