Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP - Page 10 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP

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  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    >

    • Not enough holo nerfs

    Especially with the lesser nerf to agility, we agree that holo needs a bit more in this update. We’re looking at additional defensive reductions. Holo damage is certainly high, but we want to mostly leave that damage potential in the short-term, while adding more opportunity to counterpressure as a way of mitigating that damage. The new changes are included at the end of the post.

    • What about doing [any number of other suggestions]?

    There are more changes that make sense to do. There are concerns about some builds that aren’t being hit. There are questions about whether these changes are the right changes.

    These changes are all very focused on fixing problems in the short-term. Ideally we wouldn’t splash into other builds, but in some cases it’s bound to happen. We wanted to create a small set of high-impact changes to improve things while we work toward bigger goals. The alternative was to just not do any balance until the future update is ready, but we felt that we could address some problems so we’re going to take the opportunity. If other big problems appear following this update, we still have the ability to make small adjustments outside of the usual balance cadence as needed.

    Updates to the previous list:

    • Sigil of Agility: Reduced quickness duration from 2 seconds to 1 second
    • Photon Wall: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 45 seconds in PvP only
    • Heat Therapy: Reduced heal per stack from 65 to 49 (-25%) in PvP only

    We still have a bit more time to iterate, but at this point we’re primarily looking for feedback on the holo changes.

    The heat therapy nerf is fine, the resustain of holo while not pressured but still in fight is too high atm. I am strongly against the Photon Wall nerf though, because it is the only skill that allows holo to keep pressuring while having some kind of protection. All the other lifesavers take you out of the game completely (Elixir S and Toss Elixir S). That already makes a very poor matchup against (Strength) Spellbreaker, who does 2k+ damage with every dodges and has multiple evade frames on offensive skills with very low cooldown (GS 3, Bull's Charge, Full Counter), combined with an absurd level of might stacking and damage modifiers, of which he will get yet another passive one with the change on fall damage traits. Rev workes similarly, Sword 3 combined with Impossible Odds, does huge damage while completely immune, Staff 5 is a CC with some dps while immune and there are several instant casts and passive procs that still hit while blocking, dodging or otherwise being immune. Mirage also works the same way with Distortion and Ambush tying major condition pressure to dodges. The lack of these kind of mechanics has always been the major downside of Holo, even though most people forget that when they complain about its damage, CC and resustain.

    Essentially holo becomes stronger when coordination is poor and focus not constant, because in these kind of situations the ability to disengage relatively safely and resustain quickly becomes very effective. When pressure is constant and target focus is being kept up, like it is the case in more high lvl and organized settings, holo already has some disadvantages against builds that have both high mobility and the ability to cover their damage with immunity frames.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP content

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    holo just needs to be ccable , so plz reduce his stability uptime

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

  • Maybe the power creep has a lot to do with + boon duration and how easily obtainable it is. There are tons of runes and traits now that grant large chunks of universal concentration stat for all boons the character is generating.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

    It needs to be unblockable because of how the mechanics for spawning the clone are. Other clone sources don't require hitting but because of spaghetti code Mirror Blade does. If Mirror Blade was changed to spawn a clone as soon as the throw attack becomes airborne then it can go down to being unblockable.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

    GS is a good antireflect weapon, ranged and not one ability is reflectable/blocked by domes, I suspect this is why its unblockable, BTW it doesnt offer enough impact to "save" it for when people block, its just there to not get screwed over by random dome from firebrand or other classes.
    The only time I would consider saving gs2 is for shield block warrior, to apply cripple through block with GS trait.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

    GS is a good antireflect weapon, ranged and not one ability is reflectable/blocked by domes, I suspect this is why its unblockable, BTW it doesnt offer enough impact to "save" it for when people block, its just there to not get screwed over by random dome from firebrand or other classes.
    The only time I would consider saving gs2 is for shield block warrior, to apply cripple through block with GS trait.

    If it were purely utility and did little to no damage and only applied cripple to the target and might to the caster, i'd agree with you. But it's not purely utility. It does a lot and bounces. It should be a blockable skill.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

    It needs to be unblockable because of how the mechanics for spawning the clone are. Other clone sources don't require hitting but because of spaghetti code Mirror Blade does. If Mirror Blade was changed to spawn a clone as soon as the throw attack becomes airborne then it can go down to being unblockable.

    Clone spam is too high as is. Being able to block the attack thus reducing damage, cripple, and might/extra clone for the caster should be a valid counter play to this skill. It should be blockable.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

    GS is a good antireflect weapon, ranged and not one ability is reflectable/blocked by domes, I suspect this is why its unblockable, BTW it doesnt offer enough impact to "save" it for when people block, its just there to not get screwed over by random dome from firebrand or other classes.
    The only time I would consider saving gs2 is for shield block warrior, to apply cripple through block with GS trait.

    If it were purely utility and did little to no damage and only applied cripple to the target and might to the caster, i'd agree with you. But it's not purely utility. It does a lot and bounces. It should be a blockable skill.

    my glass cannon, full damage sigils, and traits mesmer doesnt hit for more then 2k with it, so if all bounces land its 6k dmg.
    now immagine that you are playing power mirage, this kitten hits for 500-1200, and it spreads on clones/pets and other things.
    it doesnt do much damage. Meanwhile dodge from war deals more, while unblockable. but its fine :)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

    It needs to be unblockable because of how the mechanics for spawning the clone are. Other clone sources don't require hitting but because of spaghetti code Mirror Blade does. If Mirror Blade was changed to spawn a clone as soon as the throw attack becomes airborne then it can go down to being unblockable.

    Clone spam is too high as is. Being able to block the attack thus reducing damage, cripple, and might/extra clone for the caster should be a valid counter play to this skill. It should be blockable.

    Clone spam is only too high on Staff, Scepter, and Deceptive Evasion. And most of that is being directly nerfed. Spawning clones should not be preventable. Stopping shatters through killing clones or avoiding the shatter should be.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Yeah like thief SD, like necro CC, like war FC and F1, like ele CCs, like rev on demande + on legend swap like etc etc.
    I will not list all the unblocable effect on every class who have some impact but I doubt mesmer is the most efficient talking about unblocable thing.
    Like mesmer shouldn't have 1 unblocage who didn't even CC in an environnement where literraly everyone have this with better impact than a only damage skill with high animation who is useless as long as mesmer isn't fighting single target.
    I'm curious to know how you manage other class unblocable ?

    I don't think it's an issue with other classes having unblockable skills. I can say specifically because I play mesmer that it does not need unblockable skills. It has nothing to do with other classes. I didn't even mention other classes. I'm saying that mesmer should not have unblockable skills. Especially one that bounces and is on such a short cd.

    Yeah me too I prefer to get spammed by a 3 to 5 k unblocable thief sword spam who remove boon and give evade than to a GS 2.

    If it were purely utility and did little to no damage and only applied cripple to the target and might to the caster, i'd agree with you. But it's not purely utility. It does a lot and bounces. It should be a blockable skill.

    You know that bounce = the more target theres is, the less efficient it is hu ?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet should really think about changing the name of the game to condi wars 2. Ur literally on fire these days like 80% of every match. U can load ur build with cleanses and it really doesnt matter cuz ull be on fire a sec after every cleanse. Or poisoned, feared etc etc. It has gotten really bad.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    Its unblockable so that GS has a skill that can reliably generate a clone. I dont think that needs to change personally. GS for the most part is probably fine as it is i think

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asuran.5469 said:
    Maybe the power creep has a lot to do with + boon duration and how easily obtainable it is. There are tons of runes and traits now that grant large chunks of universal concentration stat for all boons the character is generating.

    This +1 i agree this is where alot of it comes from but only in some cases.
    Some classes were already good with generating set boons and at one point there was talk about toning down boons and condi.
    Condi was toned down once and its already back out of control again on a few professions.

    Boons if i recall were never toned down.
    Then we have a lot of traits now too that also cause might to generate more power per stack and alot more ferocity / condition damage too.

    I do often wonder how the game would fare without amulets and runes and just letting the profession + weapons chosen dictate a players damage and play style. It probably wouldnt work hahah.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    I just wanted to add that Mesmer's greatsword #2 skill, Mirror Blade, should not be Unblockable. It's going to be unblockable, remove it's ability to bounce. It shouldn't be able to bounce and by unblockable.

    It's unblockable because if it was blockable it would be reflectable since it is a projectile, and since it generates a clone on hitting a foe, reflecting it would allow other classes to gain that clone which would be weird. It would have to be totally reworked or just left as unblockable which is fine, nothing wrong with having some counters to blocks.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    Or if we remove the ability to bounce, we can make it a 5k damage skill to be in pair with other unblocable, seems fine too....

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Or if we remove the ability to bounce, we can make it a 5k damage skill to be in pair with other unblocable, seems fine too....

    it just needs not to be unblockable, that would be fair.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Or if we remove the ability to bounce, we can make it a 5k damage skill to be in pair with other unblocable, seems fine too....

    it just needs not to be unblockable, that would be fair.

    Ofc not it will not be fair lol. Did you just look at damage coefficient for a only damage skill ?
    Open wiki and look at number please.

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭✭

    You should also take care about ranger pets who deals like 80 % of their dmg, moves under coke and have all buff+ rapid fire

  • Jasonbdj.4021Jasonbdj.4021 Member ✭✭✭

    I think warrior's Healing Signet base should be lowered and maybe have healing makes up for the lost.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Or if we remove the ability to bounce, we can make it a 5k damage skill to be in pair with other unblocable, seems fine too....

    it just needs not to be unblockable, that would be fair.

    Ofc not it will not be fair lol. Did you just look at damage coefficient for a only damage skill ?
    Open wiki and look at number please.

    I'm perfectly aware, I've mained mesmer since beta.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    Devs should make changes so pvp isnt a condi garbage clown fiesta, condi weavers,mirages,scourges and burn guards just spam condi garbage on the nodes every conquest match. That's what condi wars 2 is now. And the roamers like thief, well u know their story with condi's. If the devs actually want players to consider gw2 pvp not garbage maybe make toning down condis like ur toning down rampage may be a good idea. Gw2 = spam whatever condi's ur specs running- clear condi that the opponent's are spamming than spam urs again than hope u have more clears for the condi's that are about to be instantly put back on u. Games more frustrating than fun at this point lol

  • Jasonbdj.4021Jasonbdj.4021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Devs should make changes so pvp isnt a condi garbage clown fiesta, condi weavers,mirages,scourges and burn guards just spam condi garbage on the nodes every conquest match. That's what condi wars 2 is now. And the roamers like thief, well u know their story with condi's. If the devs actually want players to consider gw2 pvp not garbage maybe make toning down condis like ur toning down rampage may be a good idea. Gw2 = spam whatever condi's ur specs running- clear condi that the opponent's are spamming than spam urs again than hope u have more clears for the condi's that are about to be instantly put back on u. Games more frustrating than fun at this point lol

    Scourges are only op when the target are boons spamming, however they've died from the last update so now you will see people running around with 25 stacks of might along with other boons.

    Its a burst or be burst dumb keyboard faceroll game.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Jasonbdj.4021 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Devs should make changes so pvp isnt a condi garbage clown fiesta, condi weavers,mirages,scourges and burn guards just spam condi garbage on the nodes every conquest match. That's what condi wars 2 is now. And the roamers like thief, well u know their story with condi's. If the devs actually want players to consider gw2 pvp not garbage maybe make toning down condis like ur toning down rampage may be a good idea. Gw2 = spam whatever condi's ur specs running- clear condi that the opponent's are spamming than spam urs again than hope u have more clears for the condi's that are about to be instantly put back on u. Games more frustrating than fun at this point lol

    Scourges are only op when the target are boons spamming, however they've died from the last update so now you will see people running around with 25 stacks of might along with other boons.

    Its a burst or be burst dumb keyboard faceroll game.

    I've seen scourges 1v1 warriors in last few days constant condi bursting and fears anytime warrior got close. The games a condi mess and a very a very bad joke of a pvp state

  • Jasonbdj.4021Jasonbdj.4021 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jasonbdj.4021 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Devs should make changes so pvp isnt a condi garbage clown fiesta, condi weavers,mirages,scourges and burn guards just spam condi garbage on the nodes every conquest match. That's what condi wars 2 is now. And the roamers like thief, well u know their story with condi's. If the devs actually want players to consider gw2 pvp not garbage maybe make toning down condis like ur toning down rampage may be a good idea. Gw2 = spam whatever condi's ur specs running- clear condi that the opponent's are spamming than spam urs again than hope u have more clears for the condi's that are about to be instantly put back on u. Games more frustrating than fun at this point lol

    Scourges are only op when the target are boons spamming, however they've died from the last update so now you will see people running around with 25 stacks of might along with other boons.

    Its a burst or be burst dumb keyboard faceroll game.

    I've seen scourges 1v1 warriors in last few days constant condi bursting and fears anytime warrior got close. The games a condi mess and a very a very bad joke of a pvp state

    that because of their braindead op rampage skill giving them stability, it gets converted to fear.

  • Exalted Quality.8534Exalted Quality.8534 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    laughing at all the people that think they know how to balance holo...nerf sustain, nerf dmg, nerf cc, nerf all core traits....really??

    the change to photon wall is fine, but heat therapy should remain as is. if you decide to nerf heat therapy, passive portion of healing signet should be nerfed too as some have already stated.

    can we talk about why firebrands aren't on the chopping block?

    the combination of dmg, support, aegis, weakness, immob, and cc can be just as oppressive (if not more so) than fighting a tools holo.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @Exalted Quality.8534 said:
    laughing at all the people that think they know how to balance holo...nerf sustain, nerf dmg, nerf cc, nerf all core traits....really??

    the change to photon wall is fine, but heat therapy should remain as is. if you decide to nerf heat therapy, passive portion of healing signet should be nerfed too as some have already stated.

    can we talk about why firebrands aren't on the chopping block?

    the combination of dmg, support, aegis, weakness, immob, and cc can be just as oppressive (if not more so) than fighting a tools holo.

    fb don't do all that at same time, if they pick support they cant dmg, while holo do everything while killing

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jasonbdj.4021 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Devs should make changes so pvp isnt a condi garbage clown fiesta, condi weavers,mirages,scourges and burn guards just spam condi garbage on the nodes every conquest match. That's what condi wars 2 is now. And the roamers like thief, well u know their story with condi's. If the devs actually want players to consider gw2 pvp not garbage maybe make toning down condis like ur toning down rampage may be a good idea. Gw2 = spam whatever condi's ur specs running- clear condi that the opponent's are spamming than spam urs again than hope u have more clears for the condi's that are about to be instantly put back on u. Games more frustrating than fun at this point lol

    Scourges are only op when the target are boons spamming, however they've died from the last update so now you will see people running around with 25 stacks of might along with other boons.

    Its a burst or be burst dumb keyboard faceroll game.

    I've seen scourges 1v1 warriors in last few days constant condi bursting and fears anytime warrior got close. The games a condi mess and a very a very bad joke of a pvp state

    how many fears can scourge pump out against frenzy spb that has 3 stunremoving tools? how long untill he just gets steamrolled.

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Exalted Quality.8534 said:
    laughing at all the people that think they know how to balance holo...nerf sustain, nerf dmg, nerf cc, nerf all core traits....really??

    the change to photon wall is fine, but heat therapy should remain as is. if you decide to nerf heat therapy, passive portion of healing signet should be nerfed too as some have already stated.

    can we talk about why firebrands aren't on the chopping block?

    the combination of dmg, support, aegis, weakness, immob, and cc can be just as oppressive (if not more so) than fighting a tools holo.

    fb don't do all that at same time, if they pick support they cant dmg, while holo do everything while killing

    maybe you not played against a good symbolbrand? what league do you generally play in?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    I meant to post this here, not the other thread...

    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I meant to post this here, not the other thread...

    @Cal Cohen.3527 Regarding this... "hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage."

    The Condition System could use a 2019 review. Most games used DoT skills, which made most sense and seems much easier to balance around. In wvw sometimes my outgoing conditions are cleansed away almost completely or sometimes they are overly effective against an opponent. There could be a middle ground maybe? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more

    And just so you are aware, I have 6 Daze skills and 3 Stun skills on my Thief skill bar.

    The team needs to not just reduce damage of Hard CC skills (and on some movement impairing skills), but there needs to either be (in addition to cutting out a bunch of hard cc skills from weapons and slot skills)...

    1- Immunity timers after a player gets hit with 1 (ONE) Hard CC effect and movement impairing effect when the duration ends, or when a player https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break out of the effect.

    OR...

    2- Break Bars on players.

    Getting Hard CCed and "snared up" by movement impairing skills and effects over and over and over and over and over... needs to go right away. MOA from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X NEEDS to be considered a Hard CC skill that is countered by https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break.

    There are also weapons and slot skills that drop too many different conditions and effects.

    The team needs to revamp the condition system sooner than later, because it's not really great at all honestly.

    Naw the team needs to increase thief skills dps so they can actually burst without backstabbing and actually act like a rogue class maybe as a counter balance remove some of the hard cc on the kit. Also cherry picking a possible build that picks all skills with hard cc can be done on literally every spc/class. A lot of people don't use palm strike, distracting daggers etc. In their builds for example lol

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.3527

    Can we get some kind of "hint" about the major shake up in mind? Class mechanic changes? Class revamps? ..anything, even a small hint would be fine..although I would not blame you for not sharing any info with this playerbase...it does tend to go wild with speculations which get turned in half-truths..

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    The fact that Firebrand is not on here at all is INCREDIBLY worrying. You have Staff Thief listed, yet FB is not being looked at? Please don't be so out of touch with what is actually incredibly obnoxious and overpowered to play against. Look. At. Firebrand.

    I'm pretty scared of Firebrand, pretty much all variants, and Fire Weaver next patch based on these notes.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Well unless you give us a viable elite besides rampage after these nerfs i rather reroll another class that has utility skills in all slots until a elite skill is added again. But never the less my war and I had a good run. I guess I get to revisit Guardian or Revenant to make use of that gear somehow.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    The fact that Firebrand is not on here at all is INCREDIBLY worrying. You have Staff Thief listed, yet FB is not being looked at? Please don't be so out of touch with what is actually incredibly obnoxious and overpowered to play against. Look. At. Firebrand.

    I'm pretty scared of Firebrand, pretty much variants, and Fire Weaver next patch based on these notes.

    It's because of you people if they will nerf the wrong things.......

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    The fact that Firebrand is not on here at all is INCREDIBLY worrying. You have Staff Thief listed, yet FB is not being looked at? Please don't be so out of touch with what is actually incredibly obnoxious and overpowered to play against. Look. At. Firebrand.

    I'm pretty scared of Firebrand, pretty much variants, and Fire Weaver next patch based on these notes.

    These will be top dogs I predict.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    The fact that Firebrand is not on here at all is INCREDIBLY worrying. You have Staff Thief listed, yet FB is not being looked at? Please don't be so out of touch with what is actually incredibly obnoxious and overpowered to play against. Look. At. Firebrand.

    I'm pretty scared of Firebrand, pretty much variants, and Fire Weaver next patch based on these notes.

    It's because of you people if they will nerf the wrong things.......

    Haha riiiiigggghhhhttttt! Cuz ur better lol.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Counter Terrorist.7421 said:
    Well unless you give us a viable elite besides rampage after these nerfs i rather reroll another class that has utility skills in all slots until a elite skill is added again. But never the less my war and I had a good run. I guess I get to revisit Guardian or Revenant to make use of that gear somehow.

    Their iteration of rampage will be garbage and still be more useful than their other elites. It's great rampage keeps its cc potential but means little when its autos and one other skill are the only damage follow up options lol plus with condi pressure so high these days the fact ur licked out of all ur cleansing utilities was a decent drawback. The coefficients could have been dropped 30% and call it a day and focus on other op specs like fb etc.
    Such large coefficients alterations never end well and just end up with further fixes wasting more time.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    It's because of you people if they will nerf the wrong things.......

    He takes one break from suggesting Engineer nerfs and suddenly the bad guy, haha. He's right you know, Firebrand is being stacked very commonly in coordinated groups, Fire Weaver potential as dominant side node looking bright as well, I have no problem with that but they shouldn't be dismissed. Ranked queue isn't the only PvP feature worth balancing

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Counter Terrorist.7421 said:
    Well unless you give us a viable elite besides rampage after these nerfs i rather reroll another class that has utility skills in all slots until a elite skill is added again. But never the less my war and I had a good run. I guess I get to revisit Guardian or Revenant to make use of that gear somehow.

    Their iteration of rampage will be garbage and still be more useful than their other elites. It's great rampage keeps its cc potential but means little when its autos and one other skill are the only damage follow up options lol plus with condi pressure so high these days the fact ur licked out of all ur cleansing utilities was a decent drawback. The coefficients could have been dropped 30% and call it a day and focus on other op specs like fb etc.
    Such large coefficients alterations never end well and just end up with further fixes wasting more time.

    Agree that change to rampage will not end well. Now my first char in Gw2 was a warrior 2013 and I've seen what happens when anet decides to ruin the spec and over-nerf it. It ends up collecting dust in the char selection for a year or two until Anet starts giving it some love again. The class is extremely telegraphed so the cc it has is not even enough against really competent players there's simply to much evade/dodge ability's paired with easy get out any situation tricks to get CC stun locked to death if you have any decency to actually evade some of the '' must dodge ability's / evade ability's'' As of such with this damage nerf coming up I will personally re-roll for a uncertain amount of time until the buffs arrives. This is a smiter's boon patch.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Radagascar.6231 said:
    The fact that Firebrand is not on here at all is INCREDIBLY worrying. You have Staff Thief listed, yet FB is not being looked at? Please don't be so out of touch with what is actually incredibly obnoxious and overpowered to play against. Look. At. Firebrand.

    I'm pretty scared of Firebrand, pretty much variants, and Fire Weaver next patch based on these notes.

    It's because of you people if they will nerf the wrong things.......

    I wouldnt be scared for firebrand because gurdian's base kit is strong. They could effectively nerf the heck out of only the firebrand line and it would still do fine because the base it sits ontop of ifs one of the most if not the most solid ideal situation that a core profession should be in. A few others are close like warrior and ranger. But in terms of balanced guardian at its core is near perfect always has strengths and weaknesses based on how / what you build. But what ever you build into is always very effective.

    You should be worried for firebrand only if they start over nerfing the core aspects of guardian and not firebrand itself which is where most of the issues are.

    In relation to fire weaver its more so balancing the damage with the evades properly a big issue right now is skill that either do a ton of damage and hard cc at the same time or skills/combs that allow a person to strike while being safe with evades.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    Except for rampage those changes are so minor that I don't think anybody will notice.

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rampage
    Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.

    • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
      • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

    Nice. Notice a problem just like 100 years too late and then make decent fixes to the skill that should have been done when the problems initially started. Now we have the fix coming but another question is: what the frick is taking so long with it?!?!?! C'mon Anet Step up your game and start actually acting!

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @The Ace.9105 said:
    Now we have the fix coming but another question is: what the frick is taking so long with it?!?!?!

    Yeah, what's taking them so long to nerf condition damage into the ground?

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    It would make it approachable to do pvp again if it wasn't just some spam fest that is why I stopped doing it when HoT came out it only got worse as PoF came out too. Not to mention they need to just get rid of the condi spamming too bad enough in pvp and even worse in wvw. Only reason wvw can even be done with all that condi spam is that firebrands and scrapper tome and med kit spamming out cleanses. Not much skill involved just whoever doesn't get skill lagged out wins lol.

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