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Wvw Staff Weaver "Skill Combo"

Hana.8143Hana.8143 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 11, 2017 in WvW

Hey folks, are you enjoying your staff Weaver ?
I came up with a rotation Skill combo which is pretty smooth and wanted to share it with you.

I think there are tons of viable rotations skill combo, just wanted to try my own.

Don't mind the link for our website, it's just a (dead) guild (Re, I miss you :< )

The build : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFQQFAWnMMAdOg14C+4C8RgFCAjILcFiC3n6X9sOoAEAWAA-w
(yeah, no arcana nor air, but it's not a 100% dps build, so why should I use air/fire, or air/arcana ? :P )

This build is made so you can support allies and yourself, having some little condi clean is great in this world full of conditions.
Also, having some CDs reduced make the rotation skill combo a bit better, since you will always have meteor shower available when going to Fire/fire and (if you don't rush) will have access to both water field in Water/water (Also, reduced cds make a blast in both water fields possible )

This rotation Skill combo also gives you a lot of extra damage, unravel is there so you can avoid the useless skills and have access to the most usefull ones (use unravel in earth/fire and you have that nice little magnetic aura, and you can directly go in water/water, remember that unravel also helps for Elements of Rage)
I stayed a bit in water/water at the end, cause I wanted to blast in my water field (and not in my ice field) but you can easily avoid that in WvW since you can put the ice field and your last water field on different points.

Also remember, it's just a test, not something that you can take for absolute perfect rotation skill combo, and there is probably better ones (with different builds) but it has nice support abilities and doesn't make you totally glassy.

During the video, I was playing with zerker amulet, and rune of strength, with no sigils (cause reasons) I don't give you any stuff but I think a staff weaver should rely on as much power as he can. And since not everyone can play a zerker weaver (or ele in general) I'm sure you guys can think of something for your own stuff.

Let me know if you like it, if you would change something !

Edit: Oh and, don't worry, no air+fire lines doesn't make this build bad at dps :D
You have lots of modifiers :p

Comments

  • Hana.8143Hana.8143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    Since Weaver is a pretty tricky spec, I kinda like having a base to play with. You always end up doing the same thing with an Ele, you always like to have a proper rotation in order to not mess with your skill.
    Like in PvP you don't spam your skills in a different order, in WvW you might want to stick to something and match the cd ^^

    Of course it's not about firing a meteor shower when the enemy is moving hard and can easily avoid everything. it's just about being abe to react according to the situation.
    And since we can't say "ok, I need dps now, let's do a meteor shower, oh now I need a water field, i'll go in water" you kinda want to have a quick rotation that help you doing that ^^

    Edit: A rotation is made to maximize the DPS
    So having a base to play with in WvW can optimize your DPS and support at some point, is it that weird ? :P

    Have you tried the PvE rotations in an enemy zerg, kitten everytime I do it I see crazy numbers, I feel like my enemies are just a bunch of mobs. No offense. x)

  • FaboBabo.3581FaboBabo.3581 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ah k can probably understand that in some way. I played less Ele overall. Tried Weaver yesterday and the ammount of skills u have avaible is a blast really.

    I understand u more of a basic knowledge about a LONG Power Combo, meaning , which skill to use if u have the perfect time window.

    For example , on Mirage, when i know my enemy is vunerable i will do torch 4 sword 3 torch 5 sword ambush, jaunt f1-when enemy is low,f2 when enemy has more health. Could understand ur rotation as the same basically.

    I instantly thaught about those decisions like my F1/F2 decision. Can imagine sometimes u wanna do the quick lower dps skill , instead of the slower higher dps skill on weaver/ele too.

    Mirage since Day 1 - It got better!

  • Hana.8143Hana.8143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    Yeah, basically this is made so you have a high dps phase, then support skills for your mates.
    It's up to you to do it correctly tho.

    It's far more diffucult than pve because ofc, it's not always the right moment, and you have to wait for it.
    So based on that, you want a quick rotation and you want to be able to master it so you can be effective.

    But once again, it's just my opinion, maybe people are just gonna play tempest in wvw :P

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    prepares to push first button on rotation

    knocked down by warrior and lost half hp

    palmslap keyboard repeatedly to try to get away

    So true :<
    But if you engage when a warrior is already in the backline, gosh, you're slow af :P

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you have to use unravel as part of your rotation are you still just a weaver? It just seems that weaver rotation in wvw or pve needs a moment of not being a weaver. At least with tempest you could chose not to overload and still play like an ele if you want / need to but weaver you must give up an utility slot (something that is very important to the ele class more so then an elite) to be at the same level as tempest use. I want weaver to work too i miss staff ele doing dmg in wvw but this is not the way. Weaver as things stand is not worth running in wvw you will get more use out of tempest or core ele. Or necro if you must run real power dmg mages or dmg mages in wvw.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    Great Rotation. Now we have to tell the enemy not to move so we can actually finish it. Any ideas how to do that?

    Wishlist:
    Improve GW2 performance. Add genuine DX12 support.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And this is why you shouldn't try to 1 button macro in wvw.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    Unless for roaming, if you are playing weaver in wvw, you are doing it wrong.
    Not having instant access to vital abilities like burning retreat or magnetic aura makes this spec unplayable in large scale fights.
    The only thing that would make it work is camping fire while having great group support just for you, but power staff eles will never get it because power dmg is kitten compared to condi dmg from scourges/firebrands.

  • Hana.8143Hana.8143 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    If you have to use unravel as part of your rotation are you still just a weaver? It just seems that weaver rotation in wvw or pve needs a moment of not being a weaver. At least with tempest you could chose not to overload and still play like an ele if you want / need to but weaver you must give up an utility slot (something that is very important to the ele class more so then an elite) to be at the same level as tempest use.

    If you play tempest and don’t use overloads, you’re just a core ele too.
    In which way it’s different from a weaver trying to use unravel ? I think it’s not a big deal if you’re good at what you’re doing.

    As stated by many elementalists, twist of fate is a great utility, and can be used 2 times, and unravel is pretty handy at the same time.
    Weaver is great but with a glassy staff build, you still need to access some skills quickly, so yeah, it’s actually something I use and I’m fine with it.

    I want weaver to work too i miss staff ele doing dmg in wvw but this is not the way. Weaver as things stand is not worth running in wvw you will get more use out of tempest or core ele. Or necro if you must run real power dmg mages or dmg mages in wvw.

    I’m not saying it’s gonna replace any other builds, I still think staff tempest is a bad choice, since a 1200range class should be as glassy as possible and thus, shouldn’t come in the mass to fire an overload.
    Tempest has to be played as a mid range class with as much support as possible.

    Staff Ele is dead, but it’s not because the damage are gone. It’s mainly because people gave up playing staff. They followed the meta like sheeps and so, the staff died.
    But now that the stability is not allmighty anymore, the huge bomb are going to come back.

    Now the meta is changing, I see a lot of people talking about the return of staff eles. Do you think overloads can actually beat the multiple damage modifiers from the weaver line ?
    We’re not talking about constant dps, we’re talking about instant spikes on 20k-ish hp dudes.
    I think the weaver line has huge potential for the staff.
    Tempest has great dps because in pve, the targets are not moving, and have all the time 25 vulnerability stacks. Overloard are a problem since you can just step back and avoid most of the damage. Do you think in zerg, people wait to reach 25 stacks of vulnerability ? It’s still a huge loss for any tempest.
    What is really worth picking for a staff tempest ?
    Only one traits boost your dps, but it heavily rely on overload.

    Weaver has damage modifier you can’t remove. Swiftness is here whenever you fire a dual attack, so you always have that 7%.
    And Elements of rage is always here when firing a meteor shower and can’t be removed.
    You might just lose the crit rate from weakened foes, but that’s it.

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    And this is why you shouldn't try to 1 button macro in wvw.

    You can’t expect anyone to take a guard and be good at it if they never played a guard.
    You need to know your class. As said before, it’s not about firing random skills, but most likely firing skills in a certain order so you are effective enough.
    What’s the point of that rotation ? Having a plan so you know what to do at this exact moment, and what to do after.

  • Hana.8143Hana.8143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Great Rotation. Now we have to tell the enemy not to move so we can actually finish it. Any ideas how to do that?

    With PoF it’s not that hard, use scourges, use spellbreakers bubble, put some cc, and that’s it.

    Have you seen how brutal the engage is now?
    How quickly people lose their stab and end up losing their stability ?

    If only eles could see that and use that particular aspect of the new specs to actually punish the opponents... with massive spikes aka good dps rotations. Not simply using 5 in fire/fire huehue (meteor shower, for those who don’t know) :D

    @Vova.2640 said:
    Unless for roaming, if you are playing weaver in wvw, you are doing it wrong.
    Not having instant access to vital abilities like burning retreat or magnetic aura makes this spec unplayable in large scale fights.
    The only thing that would make it work is camping fire while having great group support just for you, but power staff eles will never get it because power dmg is kitten compared to condi dmg from scourges/firebrands.

    When playing core ele, when you switch from earth to water and finally needs that magnetic aura you just decided to not use, you’re pretty much done too.
    When you’re on a 8sec cd you have to deal with it.

    But if you look at the rotation, I have the magnetic aura, I have the burning retreat, I have the water fields, and I have them everytime it’s up. Because it doesn’t take 3hours to get into those particular attunements. And if you really need a burning retreat so bad, press F1 and use the unused unravel count, you’ll get your burning retreat in no time.

    About damages, I’ll probably try to make a video and show you. As I said, staff is dead, but the damage is still a thing with the right setup. People just forgot about it, and wanted to play like the wvw guilds, the cheesy auramancer (curse youuuu auramancer)

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hana.8143

    Funny you say that, I would play zerker Tempest over zerker Weaver in wvw.
    At least tempest has some survive-ability. The overloads break stuns and rebound is the only elite skill theE le class has in the game. No, I do not consider the weaver elite an elite because it's a joke that has to be use in melee range.

    Weaver has even less survive-ability than regular Ele.
    Having to wait u pto 4 seconds to access you 3-4-5 skills is unacceptable.
    The same goes for taking unravel. You cannot afford to give up a utility slot on what is LITERALLY the squishiest class in the game.
    Yes you can make tempest work, but not without someone following you around and healing you all the time. Have you ever used Meteor Shower in wvw before? Retaliation does more dmg to you than your meteors do to the enemy.

  • Timelord.8190Timelord.8190 Member ✭✭✭

    WvW is about having control and adjust to what the opponents do. Attacking a golem to show of a rotation is pretty useless when you in the reality have to adapt.

    My YT- channel: Toxilo

  • Hana.8143Hana.8143 Member ✭✭✭

    I know, that’s why I’ll make a video asap. It will talk for me and probably convince you.

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vova.2640 said:
    Unless for roaming, if you are playing weaver in wvw, you are doing it wrong.
    Not having instant access to vital abilities like burning retreat or magnetic aura makes this spec unplayable in large scale fights.
    The only thing that would make it work is camping fire while having great group support just for you, but power staff eles will never get it because power dmg is kitten compared to condi dmg from scourges/firebrands.

    When playing core ele, when you switch from earth to water and finally needs that magnetic aura you just decided to not use, you’re pretty much done too.
    When you’re on a 8sec cd you have to deal with it.

    But if you look at the rotation, I have the magnetic aura, I have the burning retreat, I have the water fields, and I have them everytime it’s up. Because it doesn’t take 3hours to get into those particular attunements. And if you really need a burning retreat so bad, press F1 and use the unused unravel count, you’ll get your burning retreat in no time.

    About damages, I’ll probably try to make a video and show you. As I said, staff is dead, but the damage is still a thing with the right setup. People just forgot about it, and wanted to play like the wvw guilds, the cheesy auramancer (curse youuuu auramancer)

    Let's try this again.
    Sure you "have" those skills. But you don't have them exactly when NEED them.
    I don't know about you but I swap to earth when:
    a. I need magnetic aura URGENTLY.
    b. The fight is basically won, the enemies are running away and I wanna drop a line and immob to stop them. At this point I will not need magnetic aura.

    And your dmg is near irrelevant because pretty much everyone running in full dire/trailblazer/minstrel which offers a ton of armor. You meteors doing laughable damage and enemies will simply walk out of them.

    I have over 3k hour on Ele and I love(d) playing staff zerker ele in wvw. I still play it sometimes.
    But it simply doesn't bring anything anymore, at least not as much as scourge/FB.

  • Blodeuyn.2751Blodeuyn.2751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    Staff Tempest is far from dead. I'm still running it as it allows me to play any range I need to, has plenty of support on its own, and for me is a nice jack-of-all-trades class. I can adapt to any situation quickly, whereas on Weaver I just feel clunky (and missed my overloads).

    Blodeuyn Tylwyth
    Quaggan OP [QOP], League of Extraordinary Siegers [LEXS]

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    I run a staff water ele with some damage and cc from time to time. Tried weaver in the beta and it failed horribly. Rotations planned in advance don't work with the amount of condis in the game and interupts- by the time you can get back to full water as the field was called you and the whole team are dead meat.

    Weaver seems more designed for the selfish player who thinks max dps is everything (aka pve) and can attack stationary golems..wvw just isn't like that. Sure, you can design your max dps rotation and occasionally you might even get to use it - but the rest of the group won't thank you as they res back at spawn.

    Like most of Point Of Failure, these new class designs are pve through and through, designed to play well against pve stationary mobs and with little to no thought of wvw play.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    I personally would use right skill in situation, not skill that is next in rotation. :D

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hana.8143 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    If you have to use unravel as part of your rotation are you still just a weaver? It just seems that weaver rotation in wvw or pve needs a moment of not being a weaver. At least with tempest you could chose not to overload and still play like an ele if you want / need to but weaver you must give up an utility slot (something that is very important to the ele class more so then an elite) to be at the same level as tempest use.

    If you play tempest and don’t use overloads, you’re just a core ele too.
    In which way it’s different from a weaver trying to use unravel ? I think it’s not a big deal if you’re good at what you’re doing.

    As stated by many elementalists, twist of fate is a great utility, and can be used 2 times, and unravel is pretty handy at the same time.
    Weaver is great but with a glassy staff build, you still need to access some skills quickly, so yeah, it’s actually something I use and I’m fine with it.

    I want weaver to work too i miss staff ele doing dmg in wvw but this is not the way. Weaver as things stand is not worth running in wvw you will get more use out of tempest or core ele. Or necro if you must run real power dmg mages or dmg mages in wvw.

    I’m not saying it’s gonna replace any other builds, I still think staff tempest is a bad choice, since a 1200range class should be as glassy as possible and thus, shouldn’t come in the mass to fire an overload.
    Tempest has to be played as a mid range class with as much support as possible.

    Staff Ele is dead, but it’s not because the damage are gone. It’s mainly because people gave up playing staff. They followed the meta like sheeps and so, the staff died.
    But now that the stability is not allmighty anymore, the huge bomb are going to come back.

    Now the meta is changing, I see a lot of people talking about the return of staff eles. Do you think overloads can actually beat the multiple damage modifiers from the weaver line ?
    We’re not talking about constant dps, we’re talking about instant spikes on 20k-ish hp dudes.
    I think the weaver line has huge potential for the staff.
    Tempest has great dps because in pve, the targets are not moving, and have all the time 25 vulnerability stacks. Overloard are a problem since you can just step back and avoid most of the damage. Do you think in zerg, people wait to reach 25 stacks of vulnerability ? It’s still a huge loss for any tempest.
    What is really worth picking for a staff tempest ?
    Only one traits boost your dps, but it heavily rely on overload.

    Weaver has damage modifier you can’t remove. Swiftness is here whenever you fire a dual attack, so you always have that 7%.
    And Elements of rage is always here when firing a meteor shower and can’t be removed.
    You might just lose the crit rate from weakened foes, but that’s it.

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    And this is why you shouldn't try to 1 button macro in wvw.

    You can’t expect anyone to take a guard and be good at it if they never played a guard.
    You need to know your class. As said before, it’s not about firing random skills, but most likely firing skills in a certain order so you are effective enough.
    What’s the point of that rotation ? Having a plan so you know what to do at this exact moment, and what to do after.

    Right but why dose tempest get this luxuriously but weaver must give up a utility slot to do it every 24 sec?

    Weaver dmg can be removed and often due to the speed of cast and way of attk projectile your not going to get any more real dps in a zerg fight then a core or tempest like core ele.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FaboBabo.3581 said:
    Aren't Rotations a PvE thing?
    Are u actually doin ROTATIONS IN ZERGS?
    Holy , thank god im a roamer...

    Elementalist is all about rotations and situational awareness. Eles are used for cc's, support/utility/heals, and damage so they must know when to switch up and use the appropriate skills.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally speaking, I think Tempest is still better all around for WvW.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Kek WvW rotations. i got news for you buddy in WvW you categorize abilities into 3 types

    Wasteables- blow them on CD just to do something to keep the pressure up ex: lava font or lighting surge
    Oh kitten- reserved until you absolutely positively need them might not use once in an entire engagement but not having when you need it gets you killed. ex:mistform
    Tide changers- abilities you reserve until they will have the biggest effect ex: Meteor or unsteady ground.

    Some abilities can fall into multiple catagories depending on location. for example mistform when defending a wall isnt so nessecary since your going to get downed on the wall and you can just down state mistform to safety. or Gust can be a wasteable but if your fighting near a cliff it becomes a tide changer so reserve it for the moment of biggest effect when you can gust them off the cliff for insta kills. Ele focuses on being quick thinking. if you want to auto pilot your way to moderate success play ranger or necro. a zerg ele requires you to think about every skill every time.

    if you need i can generate a list of all abilities and which catagory i would place them in.

  • Exciton.8942Exciton.8942 Member ✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:

    @FaboBabo.3581 said:
    Aren't Rotations a PvE thing?
    Are u actually doin ROTATIONS IN ZERGS?
    Holy , thank god im a roamer...

    Elementalist is all about rotations and situational awareness. Eles are used for cc's, support/utility/heals, and damage so they must know when to switch up and use the appropriate skills.

    A better suited word is skill-combo rather than rotation. Rotation kinda implies you just keep repeating the same thing again and again. However, in PvP, a lot of skill usage are reactionary.

    Historically, DD elementalist kinda had a rotation player can just stick to for most of the time. But most other ele builds do not rely on set rotation.

  • Hana.8143Hana.8143 Member ✭✭✭

    Since rotation is clearly a pve word, I changed it to "skill combo"
    I don't want people to think we're talking about PvE nor I want them to trash talk me because I used a PvE word in the WvW part of the forum (Chose better words watashi !)

    Now that we're not talking about Rotation, but about a skill combo, can we stop blaming the poor OP and keep focusing on the Skill combo ?

    Thanks in advance.

  • Weaver is terrible in WvW and PvP because it doesn't allow you to react fast enough to any situation before you're blown up, unless you build full tank, in which case you're not dealing any damage. Let it rot in PvE

    I tested quite a few different combinations with specialisations and utility skills. It doesn't offer anything good except some small shields that scourge already offers in far greater numbers. Your condi cleansing is also almost non-existent, which makes it a completely useless specialisation for WvW. Higher potential DPS output, yes, but DPS isn't important in WvW, but rather, burst damage is (which, counter intuitively, we use condition builds for that. Thanks ANet). You are not doing any burst damage on a staff build. You're not even taking advantage of what makes staff strong.

    Go back to the drawing board. I'd like to see what you come up with next with the criticisms in this thread. New builds are always welcome, but they need to be realistically viable in the current WvW meta. Maybe after condi gets nerfed into the ground, your build might become viable in niche situations, but until then, not good.

  • Vermillion.4061Vermillion.4061 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2017

    The problem with DPS staff in general and it has nothing to do with with weaver but you run into the problem of CoR's / Spellbreakers / Soulbeasts basically 1 hit/combo'ing you since you are most likely full marauder with a bit of zerk otherwise the build loses too much damage to be considered worthwhile to run. Sorry I'm not trying to be negative towards it as I used to play full zerk ele back in 2014 to early 2015 when it was actually really strong to run but staff runs into a lot of other problems to.

    • Unable to deal effectively towards reflect/destroy projectiles (Guardian Wall of Reflect/Spellbreaker Winds)
    • Able to get bursted from 100-0 from multiple sources
    • Has trouble with retal at times if you are facing a coordinated guild group that actually keeps good boon uptime
    • Power Rev Hammer basically outperforms Elementalist in "safe" damage since CoR burst is what is needed in WvW while still offering a lot of boons to the fight.