Isnt DBL too big?

It feels like in order to populate this map we need at least 1000 players. I mean I personally love the design. But it takes a long time to learn about the map. It always feel empty here even when the map is full during the reset hours.

Maybe try increasing the mount speed by 200% for an event for this map only? The map is so huge it takes forever to get to somewhere.

The basic map on its own isnt so big. There are plenty of shortcuts and teleports.

The problem is they royally kittened up on actual objective positions and objective design, creating locations that are near impossible to overlook and paths that are too "off" to create a constant frontline combat area. The center piece is also a remnant of failed design and implementation, due to being changed from the cannon meta event to bloodlust caps.

Just a simple change like NE/NW towers being further south "on the path" of garri->tower->bay and more within view would improve it vastly for defenders.

Not to mention the idea of using the central area to create an "borderesque EB" could have raised its popularity through the roof.

Too late for that now though, even small changes basicly require a new map.

This would probably just encourage players to do more quick caps than actually stay on the map.The map needs to be cleaned up in various ways.

it FEELS bigger because the spawn for home is on the north edge of the map, basically where north camp is on Alpine, and so Garrison and the north towers are also farther north. to make up for the objectives being farther apart, there are more (three shrines for each keep, including garrison)

IMO, Alpine's home spawn is too far south, as are garrison and the north towers. there's too much dead space on the north of the map for my tastes. MY opinion is: if any map needs to be redone... it's Alpine. everything's too close together.

i actually would prefer EotM to replace one of the Alpine maps, because Alpine is so... boring to me.

You can't just plug eotm or ebg type maps into a home map, the home maps all have to have the same amount of objectives to keep it fair for all three sides.

Anet removed some mechanics and never edited the map size accordingly.

Alpine's North used to have this orb mechanic that everyone fights for, so it was appropriate for it's size for when epic battles occur. They removed that due to blatant hacking of players and never mentioned it again, but the north side area remained the same. Yes, instead of fixing the hacks or being vigilant on the hackers, they simply removed the mechanic. Too much effort, I guess?Same with Desert - there used to be "hindrances" all over the place. You have to destroy them before you gain access to other areas of the map. Emergency Waypoints were only available on towers too, and of course the map-wide-lag-inducing Laser Event in the middle. That was the time when WvW players complained so much and shrunk in population that never really recovered. Guess what they did? Yep - they just removed the barriers, disabled the Laser Event and put EWPs on keeps.Then they had this voting poll of putting back Alpine on rotation and never get new maps ever again or keep Desert and maybe, just maybe get a new map. Still waiting on that new map, by the way.

It's like putting band-aids on deep tissue wounds. Just like moving Ogrewatch Tower and replacing it with a big nothing because of gliding abuse and putting invisible walls and extra rocks all over the place because of Warclaw abuse.

i miss the super lazer.

@Sovereign.1093 said:i miss the super lazer.It was good in theory, if it had only done some damage and on garri specifically so that it turned into a larger battle for defending garri or taking the gun... But nope all enemy doors was opened at T0 and badly damage otherwise

The fact you could basicly cheat the item collection requirement and that the entire border became unplayable due to lag didnt help.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:i miss the super lazer.It was good

in theory

, if it had only done some damage and on garri specifically so that it turned into a larger battle for defending garri or taking the gun... But nope

all

enemy doors was opened at T0 and badly damage otherwise

mmm... we need beta testing. :/

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The basic map on its own isnt so big. There are plenty of shortcuts and teleports.

The problem is they royally kittened up on actual objective positions and objective design, creating locations that are near impossible to overlook and paths that are too "off" to create a constant frontline combat area. The center piece is also a remnant of failed design and implementation, due to being changed from the cannon meta event to bloodlust caps.

Just a simple change like NE/NW towers being further south "on the path" of garri->tower->bay and more within view would improve it vastly for defenders.

Not to mention the idea of using the central area to create an "borderesque EB" could have raised its popularity through the roof.

Too late for that now though, even small changes basicly require a new map.

I really like the map but it could have the jumping pads active all the time and maybe more of them.

Also the midle area should have diffferent objectives worth fighting for like a camp or 2 really next to each other or around.

Most maps are empty with barely any players on it do too the poor server system(there's a reason PvE went to a mega server system but even then most old PvE maps are dead). EBG the only relevant map. Everytime I log on to this game most maps are dead with no enemies or friendlies. There's just too many damn maps and tiers and not enough players. Maybe European servers are more populated but that's just Prime time then it's dead.

@hunkamania.7561 said:Maybe European servers are more populated but that's just Prime time then it's dead.

In EU we often cap maps out at Primetime. Off-peak it varies. Late at night we're talking a handful of players, maybe 5-20 at the nadir/offpeak-equinox. I'd say that's as dead as it gets.

@Forgotten Legend.9281 said:it FEELS bigger because the spawn for home is on the north edge of the map, basically where north camp is on Alpine, and so Garrison and the north towers are also farther north. to make up for the objectives being farther apart, there are more (three shrines for each keep, including garrison)

IMO, Alpine's home spawn is too far south, as are garrison and the north towers. there's too much dead space on the north of the map for my tastes. MY opinion is: if any map needs to be redone... it's Alpine. everything's too close together.

i actually would prefer EotM to replace one of the Alpine maps, because Alpine is so... boring to me.

Lol Alpine is perfectly fine. Desert BL and Eotm are totally pve framed maps. There’s a reason they are dead in a pvp game mode.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:The basic map on its own isnt so big. There are plenty of shortcuts and teleports.

The problem is they royally kittened up on actual objective positions and objective design, creating locations that are near impossible to overlook and paths that are too "off" to create a constant frontline combat area. The center piece is also a remnant of failed design and implementation, due to being changed from the cannon meta event to bloodlust caps.

Just a simple change like NE/NW towers being further south "on the path" of garri->tower->bay and more within view would improve it vastly for defenders.

Not to mention the idea of using the central area to create an "borderesque EB" could have raised its popularity through the roof.

Too late for that now though, even small changes basicly require a new map.

I concur.

Sadly, the desert map was created by PvE artists and not strategists. This means that we have impractical stuff all over the place - hello cannons at the garrison-equivalent (I can't remember the name), easily least defensible keep of them all.

The towers aren't in trebuchet range or near-trebuchet range of the keep and provide zero strategic advantage.

Although the desert map has plenty of character and diversity, it just wasn't designed with the right kind of knowledge. These simple guidelines would have made it superb! It's sad really, considering just how much dedication and time it took to cobble together.

Ha! I knew I had it somewhere. Below is the overlay of ABL objectives (very rough wall outlines) vs DBL flat map. Made in 2015 to demonstrate whats wrong in the objective positioning and design.

I honestly believe DBL would have been a much better map if they would have followed the EB layout - 4 keeps, 9 towers, 6 camps. The map is "big" in the sense that 3 keeps and 4 towers isnt enough content for it's size.

Dbl is a big square with objectives in a large circle and Abl is a tall narrow rectangle with objectives in a corridor. Not complicated to figure out which map will have more action.

Nah.

The bigger problem is the objectives themselves are too big and awkwardly shaped. In addition there's no real relation between objectives. Your average defender must waste time looking at every nook and cranny, and as a result decides to not bother at all and play a less annoying map. If all action were constrained to the southern part it'd be nice, but it's not.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Ha! I knew I had it somewhere. Below is the overlay of ABL objectives (very rough wall outlines) vs DBL flat map. Made in 2015 to demonstrate whats wrong in the objective positioning and design.

I honestly believe DBL would have been a much better map if they would have followed the EB layout - 4 keeps, 9 towers, 6 camps. The map is "big" in the sense that 3 keeps and 4 towers isnt enough content for it's size.

It looks like there is enough space on each of the WvW maps for a central castle.