ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"?

Please give us some hope that all the comments in the Feedback Thread are not for nothing and tells us in an official announcement how you intend to respond to the issues raised.

The mood, as I read it, it pretty low, feeling that nothing will come of out feedback. An announcement would really help the communication with the player base, by making them feel heard and knowing what they can expect.

I have been reading the thread and the issues raised are fairly consistent and can easily be summarized into a few main bullet points. I would just like to know how you as a company feel about the issues raised.

<1

Comments

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why? They aren't fixed yet.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    OP, you do realize they aren't going to make any changes to them right? People are already buying them in the current iteration, they did exactly what they intended to with them (gem store sales). Personally, I liked the way builds were done in GW1, but with the launch having already happened, the only change that could happen is they will increase the number of equipment tabs and build tabs available. I'm not saying don't continue making suggestions, I just think the community should realize that templates are what they are, and it isn't going to change.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    why they had to respond?

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • They’ll do bug fixes but they’re not going to make changes unless sales of these items are below their expectations. If that happens they’ll probably drop the prices and maybe look at some options, such as making them account bound instead of character bound.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

    Forum Guides: Images. Text

  • Donari.5237Donari.5237 Member ✭✭✭✭

    An announcement of how they intend to respond isn't going to happen. We are lucky to get one level of communication. They aren't going to say "we intend to tell you things," they'll just tell us the things once they have them in presentable official form.

  • Greg.7086Greg.7086 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Omnicron.2467 >>> ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"?

    Game Developers DON'T ever make announcements over "how they intend to respond players' feedback on matter XYZ "

    I learnt many, many, years ago, to accept Game Developers will make changes, updates as they see fit, and not based on popular player opinion.

    Anet's microtranscation business model is one that targets the few (~3% richest players) and not the many (subscription based model), and this top richest % of players will buy everything on offer in microtransactions: The $$$ amounts to these individuals will seem paltry amounts compared to what the general community sees them as.

    Ergo Anet will not mind one bit the general gaming community complaining on forum about any monetization issue or even quitting playing altogether, since the top ~3% richest players will go on playing and spending regardless.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You don't need an announcement for that. It'll be the same as everything else. Ignore unless it boils over then you quickly try to throw some towels on it before it gets all over the floor.

  • Lambent.6375Lambent.6375 Member ✭✭✭

    It may take more than three days to resolve these kind of things, be patient.

    @FOX.3582 said:
    A freaking chair. Woah. I personally can't wait to buy a gem store CHAIR, so all my characters can SIT around in Tyria while other players see me, SITTING there, looking like a [email protected] ...

  • @Reverielle.3972 said:
    Players need to be more patient.

    I don't want solutions! I want to be angry!

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭

    @Reverielle.3972 said:
    Here's your feedback, from the Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates:

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    We want to acknowledge that we are reading the feedback expressed in this thread and the other forums threads about the Build and Equipment Templates. We are discussing this feedback internally to determine how we can address it.

    It's timely and appropriate. Anyone that professes they expect more I feel is either unrealistic in their expectations or simply being a provocateur.
    Players need to be more patient. There is a procedure to the process, one that anyone who works in an organisation with a critical mass of employees that deals with a public/customer-base can appreciate.

    Thanks for sharing!> @Acheron.4731 said:

    From merged thread


    We want to acknowledge that we are reading the feedback expressed in this thread and the other forums threads about the Build and Equipment Templates. We are discussing this feedback internally to determine how we can address it.

    Stéphane Lo Presti
    Content Marketing Manager


    Thanks for sharing! :)

  • Tyncale.1629Tyncale.1629 Member ✭✭✭

    I love the templates. Never used Arcdps. I bet lots of the non-forum people are like me. Man, is the competitive-mode crowd loud on these forums.

  • @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyncale.1629 said:
    I love the templates. Never used Arcdps. I bet lots of the non-forum people are like me. Man, is the competitive-mode crowd loud on these forums.

    I like them too..but I hope they make them more affordable.

    They are over rpiced. And account shared trait templates, should be free.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @SlateSloan.3654 said:
    When HoT was released and all the players complained that an expansion should not carry the price of a full game, they just did the turtle and ignored the storm until it was over. so will they do now as well. its the new way of politicians and entrepreneurs to handle customer feedback, just ignore it long enough until the resistance is broken and continue with what you do. if theres no riot in the street everything is still ok, as people who rant their opinion into the internet are actually harming nobody...

    That is not really true though.
    If they had fully ignored the feedback from HoT release, they would have never sold PoF at a lower price than the base game and they would have never forced new players to purchase HoT in addition to PoF.

    If you think they are going to fully ignore a game wide feature that affect all players from casual to hardcore that is also available at any lvl, I think you are just both very jaded and blowing things out of proportion.

    Sure they are some refinements to make about the system but it doesn’t mean that the system is fundamentally broken.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SlateSloan.3654 said:
    When HoT was released and all the players complained that an expansion should not carry the price of a full game, they just did the turtle and ignored the storm until it was over. so will they do now as well. its the new way of politicians and entrepreneurs to handle customer feedback, just ignore it long enough until the resistance is broken and continue with what you do. if theres no riot in the street everything is still ok, as people who rant their opinion into the internet are actually harming nobody...

    Of course you meant to say "All the <1% of the playerbase that post on the forums complained"..

    IIRC ANET actually took notice of the negativity that surrounded the HoT launch and came back with some alterations.. notably providing an additional character slot for vet players.. they are not all bad I guess
    Rioting does nothing but appease one's own need to be controversial and for others anarchy is their fun pit.
    Try asking those affected by riots and rebellion blockades how they feel about it when they get verbally abused just for living, working or trying to get somewhere or when their properties are damaged or destroyed, livelyhoods affected, shops looted.. yeah riots are fun things I guess.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • AlexxxDelta.1806AlexxxDelta.1806 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

    ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
    Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

    Whales are a dependable source of income but since they've already done their big spending they're not profit-makers. Them giving away HoT with a PoF purchase pretty much confirms it's not the whales they're relying on. It's new player churn that makes the money. New players come in for a few months and impulse spend and then move on once they're bored. The frivolous stuff in the cash shop shows they know this is where their coin comes from and are aiming at them.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

    ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
    Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

    By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

    Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

    The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

    Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

    With a sub based MMO I would say your theory would maybe have a little more mileage, but with the GW2 model players are free to come and go without issue and when the next LS update pops up they come back.
    Sure MMO's naturally decline as they age, but 7 yrs in I am reasonably confident GW2 has found its plateau. There is always natural erosion from that plateau and there are some picks that help steady it, especially when that content drop is imminent. That erosion hurts sub games a lot more than a B2P/F2P game which offers 3-4 monthly content drops, regular QoL and minor patches with the added twist of almost zero downtime over the first 7 years.
    There is always noise when something new drops, I am one of those that sometimes helps create it, but as I said there are always those that will jump on the pitchforks and torches bandwagon just because they think its fun.. lodge your disdain for the issues, but there is no need to be outwardly rude... one thing ANET has done time and time again is look to fix issues we players have in game or offer some form appeasement, but we should not expect it to be a given that they will always do it just because a few vocal forum posters think they are entitled.
    ANET is a business and anything the business has to put resources into needs be done in the interest of the business first and foremost. Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something.. it's just a little to early to make that call imo, especially as the priority right now is fixing bugs and getting the game stable after its implementation. So I say give it a few weeks at least before we rush to burn the stage.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

    ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
    Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

    By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

    Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

    The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

    Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

    With a sub based MMO I would say your theory would maybe have a little more mileage, but with the GW2 model players are free to come and go without issue and when the next LS update pops up they come back.
    Sure MMO's naturally decline as they age, but 7 yrs in I am reasonably confident GW2 has found its plateau. There is always natural erosion from that plateau and there are some picks that help steady it, especially when that content drop is imminent. That erosion hurts sub games a lot more than a B2P/F2P game which offers 3-4 monthly content drops, regular QoL and minor patches with the added twist of almost zero downtime over the first 7 years.
    There is always noise when something new drops, I am one of those that sometimes helps create it, but as I said there are always those that will jump on the pitchforks and torches bandwagon just because they think its fun.. lodge your disdain for the issues, but there is no need to be outwardly rude... one thing ANET has done time and time again is look to fix issues we players have in game or offer some form appeasement, but we should not expect it to be a given that they will always do it just because a few vocal forum posters think they are entitled.
    ANET is a business and anything the business has to put resources into needs be done in the interest of the business first and foremost. Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something.. it's just a little to early to make that call imo, especially as the priority right now is fixing bugs and getting the game stable after its implementation. So I say give it a few weeks at least before we rush to burn the stage.

    give it a few weeks? They've had more than a month of feedback and have continued to ignore everything.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

    ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
    Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

    By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

    Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

    The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

    Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

    With a sub based MMO I would say your theory would maybe have a little more mileage, but with the GW2 model players are free to come and go without issue and when the next LS update pops up they come back.
    Sure MMO's naturally decline as they age, but 7 yrs in I am reasonably confident GW2 has found its plateau. There is always natural erosion from that plateau and there are some picks that help steady it, especially when that content drop is imminent. That erosion hurts sub games a lot more than a B2P/F2P game which offers 3-4 monthly content drops, regular QoL and minor patches with the added twist of almost zero downtime over the first 7 years.
    There is always noise when something new drops, I am one of those that sometimes helps create it, but as I said there are always those that will jump on the pitchforks and torches bandwagon just because they think its fun.. lodge your disdain for the issues, but there is no need to be outwardly rude... one thing ANET has done time and time again is look to fix issues we players have in game or offer some form appeasement, but we should not expect it to be a given that they will always do it just because a few vocal forum posters think they are entitled.
    ANET is a business and anything the business has to put resources into needs be done in the interest of the business first and foremost. Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something.. it's just a little to early to make that call imo, especially as the priority right now is fixing bugs and getting the game stable after its implementation. So I say give it a few weeks at least before we rush to burn the stage.

    give it a few weeks? They've had more than a month of feedback and have continued to ignore everything.

    Sure they had a few weeks prior to the patch to gather info.. saw it was all about "I want, we want, must have, entitled" and let the patch go live.
    Now its in and working .. of sorts, they can now look to fix things, sift through the genuine issues and if necessary throw us an extra treat to munch on if they have the wiggle room to do so.
    Rome wasn't built in a day.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    Its crazy how fast customers seem to think these are coded.. I don't like the implementation of build templates either but making changes takes weeks or months, full overhauls might take longer.. Although with Anet track record i cannot see an overhaul.

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

    ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
    Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

    By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

    Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

    The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

    Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

    Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something..

    "Vote with your wallet" is a myth and it simply doesn't work in today's gaming, when a whale's " vote" is worth so much more. What works, is creating enough negative buzz to hurt a company's public image. Something that's easier than ever in the age of social media.

    I'm not saying the current template debacle is an issue that will achieve negative buzz of that magnitude. I'm just saying that, in general, players would be stupid not to use a tool so powerful.

    You are better off hitting their twitters and facebooks en mass.. but you need lots of people one person just gets deleted.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Prices are dead set no matter what (reimbursement isn't in their vocabulary). I'm never going to purchase any upgrades unless they go 50% off minimum.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

    ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
    Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

    By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

    Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

    The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

    Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

    Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something..

    "Vote with your wallet" is a myth and it simply doesn't work in today's gaming, when a whale's " vote" is worth so much more. What works, is creating enough negative buzz to hurt a company's public image. Something that's easier than ever in the age of social media.

    I'm not saying the current template debacle is an issue that will achieve negative buzz of that magnitude. I'm just saying that, in general, players would be stupid not to use a tool so powerful.

    Bad press is still press.. that is why each update brings new players in and old players back.. the model easily allows for it . As I said if we were talking about a sub based MMO you might have more traction. The monthly returns from gemstore etc is what does the most talking not a few outspoken words from some entitled players. who can't get over the fact they wanted something so bad, but don't like having to pay for the luxury. Using third party options has been good not just for the players but for ANET in gauging its demand a little bit more accurately than putting fingers to the wind.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    but what response we wait?
    At firts - is template mostly done ok? - yes, it is mostly nice.
    Is non arcdps template users lose something ? - mostly no. Ofc need each time switch from open world to pvp/wvw build trait is strange, but this is not big issue.

    Can be it cheaper or have "buy all option for whole account and future characters" whit magic 75% reduce price ? yes, it can be. And can be not be.

    So, again, what response we wait ?

  • @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Prices are dead set no matter what (reimbursement isn't in their vocabulary). I'm never going to purchase any upgrades unless they go 50% off minimum.

    Yes, I don't see a base price cut on the horizon. However sales do happen for other in game items and build templates would likely be something they would run sales on. This is a game financed through the cash shop now and people have to realize this is the alternative to a subscription. We get living story updates and some basic feature implementations for free. However luxuries like expanded build storage will be monetized. People who support the game with gem purchases will get the goodies. The golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rules.

    As far as the other things that are likely to happen based on my experiences (and I've been a GW2 player since launch) this is what my guess is:

    Bugs like ejection of sigils etc will be fixed.
    Misfeatures like lack of automatic loading when switching games modes will be addressed.
    Adjustments to functionality like lack of linkage of builds to equipment specs? Who knows. I think that's what players need to focus their lobbying on. The current implementation would be MUCH more valuable if this was supported. Arguments to Anet that they would sell more build storage slots if the build contained equipment specs could be very persuasive.

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