purity of purpose is op — Guild Wars 2 Forums

purity of purpose is op

Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 2, 2019 in Engineer


base durations are high in wvw. this is what it looks like with full minstrel. ridiculous.

Te lazla otstara.

Comments

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But muh scrapper, already got gutted when nerfing antitoxin rune qq

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Shhhh. Nerf scourge. Problem solved.

  • I really hope they have the time, energy, devotion and resources to rework all those overperforming abilities. The game used to be great enough to deserve it.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    base durations are high in wvw. this is what it looks like with full minstrel. ridiculous.

    This isn't a screenshot from the game.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2019

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    1. Antitoxin runes got nerfed and made useless and cause of that the scrapper condi cleanse is down atleast by 2-3x times compared to when the rune was worth using.

    1. This game has a thing called corruption/ boon removal. Meaning all those conditions you manage to corrupt into precious boons usually get instantly removed.

    2. Continuing on from upper point, this game has far far more corruption skills being used compared to condition cleanse with conversion.

    3. Boons make people more tanky which is healthy for the game mode itself as of right now everyone dies in 1-2 shots.

    try altruism. antitoxin was broken, if you can't see that then i'm not going to bother responding to your reply.
    this game also has 10x more boon output, do math.
    maybe add boon sources to your equation to make it accurate.
    you will still die to 2 shots. do more math.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    It’s kind of amazing, that in a mode where a player can get melted in seconds, where corrupts are being tossed around all over, where there are hundreds of AoEs being flung around, where thousands of conditions are rained down on players... and all this inside a game that has some of the lowest quality heal support builds and roles for an mmo... that we have complaints about boons...

    It’s as if some just want the entire game completely about damage and have never played an mmo that actually had decent support roles, or any role outside of dps, or classes before.

    boons have always been op. got 10x worse each expac. not going to argue that with you. the number of boon output sources vastly outweighs the removal sources. comparing support builds between games is a useless argument.

    yep gw2 only mmo I've ever played, i'm just your average ignorant casual with nothing useful to say. wait a minute...

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    It’s kind of amazing, that in a mode where a player can get melted in seconds, where corrupts are being tossed around all over, where there are hundreds of AoEs being flung around, where thousands of conditions are rained down on players... and all this inside a game that has some of the lowest quality heal support builds and roles for an mmo... that we have complaints about boons...

    It’s as if some just want the entire game completely about damage and have never played an mmo that actually had decent support roles, or any role outside of dps, or classes before.

    boons have always been op. got 10x worse each expac. not going to argue that with you. the number of boon output sources vastly outweighs the removal sources. comparing support builds between games is a useless argument.

    yep gw2 only mmo I've ever played, i'm just your average ignorant casual with nothing useful to say. wait a minute...

    Because ignoring all the other facts about professions and combat makes it ok to complain about boons for the equation.

    Iirc, you wanted to lift the AoE target caps, but boons, from this one area, are problematic?

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    Youre complaining about something in a game mode you have no understanding of.

    1. Antitoxin runes got nerfed and made useless and cause of that the scrapper condi cleanse is down atleast by 2-3x times compared to when the rune was worth using.

    2. This game has a thing called corruption/ boon removal. Meaning all those conditions you manage to corrupt into precious boons usually get instantly removed.

    3. Continuing on from upper point, this game has far far more corruption skills being used compared to condition cleanse with conversion.

    4. Boons make people more tanky which is healthy for the game mode itself as of right now everyone dies in 1-2 shots. You dont gain 25 might stacks from the condition conversion, thats something other classes provide for you via class utilities.

    Please get in touch on how this game mode works before throwing in "this is OP" when you have no understanding on how many counters to your statement exist.

    One thing, antitoxin removed 1 additional condi whenever you cleared one condition, making it impossible to up the amount of cleanses by more than 2 times.

    I never played that build, but i believe even if you cleared 2 condis with one skill, the rune only cleared one additional condition, making it even less than double the amount of condis cleared.

    Just getting this straight.
    The rune wasnt as good as you make it seem, it sure was good, but never 3 times the clear, im pretty sure not even double the amount.

    Imo for wvw balance we need to town down everything, dmg, heal, corrupts, boonoutput.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    hehe if everyone was a scrapper. >.<

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • also you guys realize there are offensive boons right lol, and that they're extremely powerful?

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Because ignoring all the other facts about professions and combat makes it ok to complain about boons for the equation.

    Iirc, you wanted to lift the AoE target caps, but boons, from this one area, are problematic?

    lol exactly what you are doing.
    I did in the past, since changed my position to an aoe "reshuffling". yeah this trait is a problem. have fun trying to deny it.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2019

    You’re not factoring in all the extremes inside of wvw play. And for the most part, engineer is bottom tier in wvw groups, but obviously some condi conversions are super important to address... Not the hundreds of issues with the game as a whole, or the fact that engineer needs real improvements... no-no, it’s this trait...

    Massive amounts of AoEs and damage and condis litter the field, but this one engineer trait is way OP... Right?

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    Youre complaining about something in a game mode you have no understanding of.

    1. Antitoxin runes got nerfed and made useless and cause of that the scrapper condi cleanse is down atleast by 2-3x times compared to when the rune was worth using.

    2. This game has a thing called corruption/ boon removal. Meaning all those conditions you manage to corrupt into precious boons usually get instantly removed.

    3. Continuing on from upper point, this game has far far more corruption skills being used compared to condition cleanse with conversion.

    4. Boons make people more tanky which is healthy for the game mode itself as of right now everyone dies in 1-2 shots. You dont gain 25 might stacks from the condition conversion, thats something other classes provide for you via class utilities.

    Please get in touch on how this game mode works before throwing in "this is OP" when you have no understanding on how many counters to your statement exist.

    Uh no

    All you you (or anyone for that matter) needs to do is turn off grid view and watch the boon application vs condition application vs when 1 is removed and the other added. You (and anyone for that matter) will see the boons overwhelmingly overshadow conditions by a long shot. Even if a group of 5 pushes a group of 50, that group of 5 will have more boons on them when they die than conditions. This is unarguable

    If what you said was actually true and that "far far more corruption skills being used compared to condition cleanses with conversion", what we would see is boons appearing and disappearing as the conditions piled up on the character. This does not happen, and has not happened in quite some time. You have to remember, you have 1 class that corrupts, and the corrupts are blocked view blocks or resistance. We have several classes that inundate their party with boons with little to no effort.

    Even Swagger's video above proves this (even though they are trying to prove otherwise). What we immediately see when watching that video, boons, so many kitten boons, and they just keep getting applied, and allowed to tick out. What do we see with conditions? Applied, instantly removed. Applied, instantly removed. Applied, instantly removed... At one point about 6 conditions appeared then all of the immediately disappeared. This is the problem, this is completely uneven, and we wonder why there is an exodus in WvW. Boring stale game play as players run in with the entire gambit of boons spamming #1.

    Hmmm.... are either of you even aware of what's going on?

    Those of you trying to defend this meta need to understand this: It's only a matter of time before Anet zero's in on this and obliterates it bringing it down to an appropriate level. If that means trashing the firebrand and spreading their skills out across other classes, then so be it. Either way, at some point, this will stop.

  • ^

    if boons arent the problem why is optimum zerg 50% necros? sure damage blah blah blah as well, but boon application is busted af in this sandbox.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019

    mods please move this back to wvw forum cuz its a wvw specific issue.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Nah, it's fine.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    It’s kind of amazing, that in a mode where a player can get melted in seconds, where corrupts are being tossed around all over, where there are hundreds of AoEs being flung around, where thousands of conditions are rained down on players... and all this inside a game that has some of the lowest quality heal support builds and roles for an mmo... that we have complaints about boons...

    It’s as if some just want the entire game completely about damage and have never played an mmo that actually had decent support roles, or any role outside of dps, or classes before.

    DPS meters prove DPS builds are the only builds that are good at anything. If you're gonna suck at DPS, at least be useful and be a healer..... not that I need it, since I'm so good at the game, only cheaters and cheap 1-shot mechanics will kill me.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019

    Purity of Purpose is basically the only support role an engineer has. If it didn't exist, you woulo not ever take an engineer for the heals alone. This trait single handedly makes various different healers a viable option rather than just running one class like a firebrand.

    However, I can agree to some of those duration's being too high, even as an engineer main. The base duration should, in all honesty, probably be 3s-5s max. Some of them are 10s duration baseline, like vigor. That's kind of ridiculous tbh. I'm also not sure why 1 stack of torment gets converted into 3 stacks of might - same with weakness. I'm just being honest... they should only convert into 1 stack of might.

    That being said, corrupts also need toned down a bit.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    snips

    ye. both of the conversion tables are in a dire need of a nerf. swift and might converting to 10 sec of cripple and weakness is way over the top.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, this was clearly a thread in WvW that got moved to the engi subforum. Fun.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    It’s kind of amazing, that in a mode where a player can get melted in seconds, where corrupts are being tossed around all over, where there are hundreds of AoEs being flung around, where thousands of conditions are rained down on players... and all this inside a game that has some of the lowest quality heal support builds and roles for an mmo... that we have complaints about boons...

    It’s as if some just want the entire game completely about damage and have never played an mmo that actually had decent support roles, or any role outside of dps, or classes before.

    boons have always been op. got 10x worse each expac. not going to argue that with you. the number of boon output sources vastly outweighs the removal sources. comparing support builds between games is a useless argument.

    yep gw2 only mmo I've ever played, i'm just your average ignorant casual with nothing useful to say. wait a minute...

    Stand The Wall, I wonder if this player understands that a lot of professions' damage comes from boons. It's a funny little conundrum. I got a chuckle from it, but I do also agree that corrupts are a bit of an issue too. Thank goodness Cal seems like he's about to call down the Thor hammer of nerfing lightning to quell this insane powercreep on all spectrums. Fanboying a bit here.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    It’s kind of amazing, that in a mode where a player can get melted in seconds, where corrupts are being tossed around all over, where there are hundreds of AoEs being flung around, where thousands of conditions are rained down on players... and all this inside a game that has some of the lowest quality heal support builds and roles for an mmo... that we have complaints about boons...

    It’s as if some just want the entire game completely about damage and have never played an mmo that actually had decent support roles, or any role outside of dps, or classes before.

    boons have always been op. got 10x worse each expac. not going to argue that with you. the number of boon output sources vastly outweighs the removal sources. comparing support builds between games is a useless argument.

    yep gw2 only mmo I've ever played, i'm just your average ignorant casual with nothing useful to say. wait a minute...

    Stand The Wall, I wonder if this player understands that a lot of professions' damage comes from boons. It's a funny little conundrum. I got a chuckle from it, but I do also agree that corrupts are a bit of an issue too. Thank goodness Cal seems like he's about to call down the Thor hammer of nerfing lightning to quell this insane powercreep on all spectrums. Fanboying a bit here.

    8 of those boons are defensive. 4 of those boons are offensive.

    There are way bigger issues, and extremes, inside of wvw than this trait.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    8 of those boons are defensive. 4 of those boons are offensive.

    There are way bigger issues, and extremes, inside of wvw than this trait.

    uh yeah no. 6 are defensive, 4 are offensive, 2 are neutral. swiftness and alacrity aren't defensive lol.
    anyway, yes there are lots of issues. boon output is one of them, agree to disagree.
    from 2 necro axe autos you can give yourself 10 seconds of protection. not op? ok lol.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condi conversion is OP - just look at what happens to stacks of burning or chilled (chilling fog), but boon corruption is equally OP; PoP is just the flipside of the coin.

    Should ANET just remove boon/condi conversion from the game and replace it with strip/cleanse?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    8 of those boons are defensive. 4 of those boons are offensive.

    There are way bigger issues, and extremes, inside of wvw than this trait.

    uh yeah no. 6 are defensive, 4 are offensive, 2 are neutral. swiftness and alacrity aren't defensive lol.
    anyway, yes there are lots of issues. boon output is one of them, agree to disagree.
    from 2 necro axe autos you can give yourself 10 seconds of protection. not op? ok lol.

    Because ignoring all the extreme amounts of incoming conditions from 100 AoEs and skills, and a teams ability to melt another zerg in seconds, makes this one trait OP. And because you want fights to last 1 second, instead of 3, I could see your point.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    Alchemy is OP. HgH is OP, Purity of Purpose is great for non-elixir builds... But feels like every good PvP spec under the Engineer umbrella is pretty reliant on Elixirs and HgH.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    Because ignoring all the extreme amounts of incoming conditions from 100 AoEs and skills, and a teams ability to melt another zerg in seconds, makes this one trait OP. And because you want fights to last 1 second, instead of 3, I could see your point.

    none of that is relevant to boon uptime. this trait isn't making fights last 2 more seconds, if it did lol it proves my point.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Because ignoring all the extreme amounts of incoming conditions from 100 AoEs and skills, and a teams ability to melt another zerg in seconds, makes this one trait OP. And because you want fights to last 1 second, instead of 3, I could see your point.

    none of that is relevant to boon uptime. this trait isn't making fights last 2 more seconds, if it did lol it proves my point.

    I was making a larger point, but now YOU just killed your entire argument. That’s right, this trait is irrelevant in a mode where you have 100 players firing off a kitten ton of direct and condition damage, but your are niggling about it like it’s game changing. And you know it’s not inside of the mode that you brought it up in.

    And your argument keeps evolving too, now it’s “boon uptime”. Like no other boon generation exists, and at higher output levels.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    snips

    ugh. forget it dood.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Alchemy is OP. HgH is OP, Purity of Purpose is great for non-elixir builds... But feels like every good PvP spec under the Engineer umbrella is pretty reliant on Elixirs and HgH.

    This I agree with, so much so I actually took the time to make a post suggesting some changes to the Alchemy line that cuts on its immediate sustain (things like healing per boon) and directing it to the trait line that's supposed to be about healing and defense: Inventions. All in all though, I agree with what you said 100%.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:
    This I agree with, so much so I actually took the time to make a post suggesting some changes to the Alchemy line that cuts on its immediate sustain (things like healing per boon) and directing it to the trait line that's supposed to be about healing and defense: Inventions. All in all though, I agree with what you said 100%.

    Yeah. It's like Alchemy is the utterly necessary defensive utility line, Inventions is the utterly second-fiddle defensive utility line.

    Thing is, equalizing the defensive utility between Alchemy and Inventions will be a big nerf to offensive builds that could get more defense just by picking Alchemy. It'd be nice if they could balance Alchemy and Inventions defensive utility, while simultaneously adding more utility to Explosives, Firearms, and to a lesser degree, Tools.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith