All Engineer weapon skills are kinda meh and need some love. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

All Engineer weapon skills are kinda meh and need some love.

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 2, 2019 in Engineer

Think it’s time to give all weapons a more “modern”, and with a competitive eye, type rework. As of always, I would consider weapons on engineer as clunky, with weird skills just thrown in and underperforming compared to a plethora of weapon sets and skills found on other professions in-game. And having 2, actual, weapon slots would go a long way as well.

I mean, it’s a “neat” concept for a profession, but leaves a whole lot to be desired when it comes to weapons and weapon skills.

Comments

  • I think certain skills could use some improvements or reworks, but the thing with Engi is that it's weapons were designed to be complimentary of kits. All non-elite spec weapon skills are effective on their own, but noticeably less impactful without kits to accompany them. They also all work in such a way that they benefit from both range and melee distances so that they can be paired with kits that are the former or latter instead of having a kit entirely ranged with a weapon entirely melee.

    It's true that the weapons are clunky and on their own, not incredibly powerful ( speaking strictly about Pistol, OH Pistol, Shield and Rifle ), but I think they do a good job at being versatile without being irrelevant.

    Personally, I wouldn't want Rifle to be reworked in any serious way. Although it benefits substantially from being paired with a kit(s), it is still possible to be dangerous both at range and melee distances even without. All of it's skills have great utility, much like Ranger's Greatsword, in that none feel truly useless regardless of situation.

    Pistol on the other hand could use a boost, particularly with the auto attack. Although the other two skills in main hand Pistol are also fairly clunky, I think they're roughly good as they are. Things like Poison Dart Volley can for example, be buffed via Incendiary Ammo or Incendiary Powder to increase their potency. Again pairing them with kits vastly improves their effectiveness. The auto attack however is extremely lackluster and regardless of kit pairing, isn't commonly used. So I think in that regard, Pistol auto attack could use some form of a buff or change.

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  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    Pistols are absolute trash - agreed. And does rifle's jump shot still not land when you're on a hill? One of the biggest reasons I've never used it.

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    Pistols surely need a rework, but that has been asked here again and again and still nothing, rifle is not that bad and shield is honestly my favourite engineer weapon so i would not change anything on it. Engineer got less weapons than any class because of the kits but lets be honest, these kits are getting quite deprecated and should be reworkd too, only kit i find useful right now (WvW) is mortar kit and i don't spend much time on it tho.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    Pistols surely need a rework, but that has been asked here again and again and still nothing, rifle is not that bad and shield is honestly my favourite engineer weapon so i would not change anything on it. Engineer got less weapons than any class

    Its funny, I find the shield totally worthless (basicly only for holo) and the rifle slow, cumbersome and with too low damage, while I do just fine on the pistols.

    What I want to see before anything is still the actually stated rate of fire on its autoattack. Not 0.8s as it is now but the 0.5s its supposed to be. Its supposed to be shooting 60% faster. Massive difference.

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  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    Pistols surely need a rework, but that has been asked here again and again and still nothing, rifle is not that bad and shield is honestly my favourite engineer weapon so i would not change anything on it. Engineer got less weapons than any class

    Its funny, I find the shield totally worthless (basicly only for holo) and the rifle slow, cumbersome and with too low damage, while I do just fine on the pistols.

    What I want to see before anything is still the actually stated rate of fire on its autoattack. Not 0.8s as it is now but the 0.5s its supposed to be. Its supposed to be shooting 60% faster. Massive difference.

    sword/shield for holo and pistol/shield for core engi condi are builds i quite often find someone playing in wvw roaming. Having a 3sec projectile reflect + 2sec block with both being hard CC is enough for me to say shield is a great weapon and definitely would not like any changes to it . Agree that rifle is slow, but it stayed in meta for quite a while so that's why i said it "is not that bad" but i personally never use it too.
    About pistols, i believe every class with too fast skills suffer from animation delay, ranger axe 1 was supposed to be cast every 0.25s but if you check on wiki it is 0.88 secs per cast so this is a problem anet have to fix in probably all classes.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’m going to generalize here, so bear with me...

    Core engineer was/is a joke in wvw.

    Scrapper was/is a decent tank for distraction in wvw. And I’ll take a damage build over a tank build because the entire game design favors damage roles by a wide margin.

    Holosmith comes along, with decent built-in melee weapon skills through Photon Forge, and some decent slot skills, and performs much better than what Engineers had to use before. Not to mention with a decent built in weapon, it made Holosmith just like other professions that had 2 actual weapon slots to use. Players were shocked that there was an Engineer build that could actually fight back hard and win, so public perception led the team keep nerfing Holosmith, but not really improving all the major deficiencies this profession has for competitive modes.

    This profession would be better overall if all weapons were given an honest competitive makeover. The actual weapons, not kit weapons, and add in more real weapons too because the amount of weapons available is ridiculously low. And to stop forcing this profession to use up any slot skills for secondary weapons just to be barley competitive against other professions, that can use their slot skills for other things like survival and support.

    IMO, just about everything, except Holosmith, on the Engineer is made for pve, not pvp modes. Good concept, not good execution.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’m going to generalize here, so bear with me...

    Core engineer was/is a joke in wvw.

    Scrapper was/is a decent tank for distraction in wvw. And I’ll take a damage build over a tank build because the entire game design favors damage roles by a wide margin.

    Holosmith comes along, with decent built-in melee weapon skills through Photon Forge, and some decent slot skills, and performs much better than what Engineers had to use before. Not to mention with a decent built in weapon, it made Holosmith just like other professions that had 2 actual weapon slots to use. Players were shocked that there was an Engineer build that could actually fight back hard and win, so public perception led the team keep nerfing Holosmith, but not really improving all the major deficiencies this profession has for competitive modes.

    This profession would be better overall if all weapons were given an honest competitive makeover. The actual weapons, not kit weapons, and add in more real weapons too because the amount of weapons available is ridiculously low. And to stop forcing this profession to use up any slot skills for secondary weapons just to be barley competitive against other professions, that can use their slot skills for other things like survival and support.

    IMO, just about everything, except Holosmith, on the Engineer is made for pve, not pvp modes. Good concept, not good execution.

    I don't think core Engi is as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. I absolutely agree that it's under performing, but I also think people often describe it as though it's incapable of winning against literally anything.

    I've been playing a core power build for over a month now and was constantly adjusting it until I landed on something I was happy with. Although I don't believe the build has any favorable match ups ( meaning 1v1's where it's the stronger build ), I'm still capable winning against the vast majority of things I encounter so long as I'm patient. The amount of effort needed to succeed is probably a little higher than it would be with Scrapper or Holo, but it's rare I feel like I'm so severely disadvantaged that I don't think I can win. The only times I get that feeling are against condi Mirage, boonbeast, a good sword/sword Herald and a good Dragonhunter. The first two are tough to fight on most things anyway, while the other two are just a matter of not being able to kite them or land bursts reliably. But the point I'm trying to make is that despite it's reputation, I don't feel nearly as weak as it supposedly is. I've had loooots of duels, 1v1's and outnumbered fights and I'm comfortable with saying it only needs some minor buffs here and there to bring it to a more competitive level.

    I seriously suggest more people give it an honest try to see what they can achieve before asking for buffs. Again, I agree it needs some, but I also think it's no where near as bad as people say.

    There's an Engi on EU that has been playing core lately and it felt reassuring to know I was on the right track when I put my build together. His and mine are similar in concept but he obviously plays it a lot better than I do, which you can see in this video here. Some parts of it he's playing Holo, others he's playing core. But you can get an idea for how effective it can be if you know how to play it ( also for context, this Engi is a top 10 - 20 player in EU ).

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  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    IMO, just about everything, except Holosmith, on the Engineer is made for pve, not pvp modes. Good concept, not good execution.

    Scrapper was only designed with spvp in mind. Engineer as a whole isn't in any pve meta since forever now with the exception of being a superspeed bot. Kits need reworks, weapons need a rework. Engi needs a power based offhand and Turrets/gadgets are still incredible bad.
    They just gave it a 37.5% modifier in pve and called it a day. Pve holo is super clunky to play with this rifle turret and low burst and has no support. Meanwhile guardian exists and gets buffs every patch.

  • Issue is Engineer weapons are meant to be some what lackluster, but then complimented with kits to work around that. And Anet wouldn't want Scrapper or Holo to be too powerful with buffs to either kits or rifle.
    If they punish kit usage on holo more and buff kits it'll be in the benefit of core engi. I wish there wer abilities for core classes only, then they could buff core engi and not have to worry about the other classes. It does show specialisation weren't added for competitive gameplay firstly, more of a marketing tool for more powerful classes if people opt to upgrade to the expansion.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    Pistols surely need a rework, but that has been asked here again and again and still nothing, rifle is not that bad and shield is honestly my favourite engineer weapon so i would not change anything on it. Engineer got less weapons than any class

    Its funny, I find the shield totally worthless (basicly only for holo) and the rifle slow, cumbersome and with too low damage, while I do just fine on the pistols.

    What I want to see before anything is still the actually stated rate of fire on its autoattack. Not 0.8s as it is now but the 0.5s its supposed to be. Its supposed to be shooting 60% faster. Massive difference.

    100% agreed on MH pistol auto for engi. .8s when it's supposed to be .5s is just silly. Sadly, despite its silliness, it's the truth and it part of what makes the pistol feel less established than the other weapons. As for shield, maybe a slight CD reduction would suffice for its actual guarding skill (shield 5).

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  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Engi weapons are fine like it is, all of them has uses and Holo brings even more with the holo weapons.
    With all the issues there are in the game im confident anet has bigger fishes to fry instead reworking the powerful engi weapons when there is no need.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    Only the mainhand pistol could get some tinkering. Since a nerf to overall condition application (and cleansing counterparts) from every popular condi build is apparently out of question, the weapon could use some more condi application by itself. Relying on both mortar kit (projectiles) grenades (more projectiles) and flamethrower to apply conditions is suicide due to replacing key survival skills. In a way that is a balanced tradeoff, but the 2012 kind of balance, it's no longer the case now.

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  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2019

    Regarding weapons versus kits..

    Honestly, I rarely use Engi kits since the first few years of the game, they were a big thing back then but these days I avoid them especially on Holo because they're outdated and really lackluster, the weapons even moreso.

    I'd like to see a few more weapons added and kits reworked to affect weapons (turn your rifle into a flame gun or healing gun, etc.) because really, even without the hobopacks that got removed, it's just not a good concept and its never going to be viable outside of a few niche builds. The days of grenade and flamethrower Engis running around are over, they were only ever used because it was all that was available, and even now they're only used to fill the gaps left by the (very limited) weapons selection and for cooldowns on Photon Forge.

    Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Holo or Scrapper using a kit for more than a few seconds of the fight. Kits work great as profession mechanics, like they're used on the Firebrand and Necromancer, not utility skills like on the Engi.

    Imagine them being powerful weapon modifiers instead and how it would change the meta. I know this is difficult to imagine but think about how in Stargate they modified P90s with the Kull Disruptor, something like that would be really interesting especially for the medkit, attacking using your normal hammer or rifle skills but also healing and supporting allies in doing so, it would also play better with builds overall.

    And about 10% as clunky as what we actually ended up with, especially visually..

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  • @Hannelore.8153 said:
    The days of grenade and flamethrower Engis running around are over

    That is true, since Halloween just ended. ^^
    Still the weapon-kit of choise to tag as many enemies per second as possible.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Scrapper using a kit for more than a few seconds of the fight

    Healscrappers use med-kit most of the time. Elixir gun is used for 3-5 on demand. The same is true for main-weapon (Hammer 2-5, Shield 4-5), though.
    There is also no problem with this since there is only 1s CD for the kit you switched from. So, keeping the CD in mind you can just switch to a kit for 1s to use the skill you need, switch to the next one and rotate. In my opinion, back then a 4-kit engineer played more fluid than an elementalist because of that.
    Having a 30s CD on an elixirgun-like weapon-switch (like tomes) would be a reason to use something else.
    The idea of having an attunement affect your current weapon skills is already done with the elementalist, though.

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭✭

    I would like to see a greatsword on engi and sword to hit faster when lowering dmg.
    Without quickness, we seem slow as kitten

  • I would rework rifle. This weapon should work as a shotgun, which can strike more targets at once and weapon is more precise in short range, e.g. something like blunderbuss should be on AA.
    Scrap Rifle Test has nice weapon that could fit the role of rifle for engi.

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  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    I would rework rifle. This weapon should work as a shotgun, which can strike more targets at once and weapon is more precise in short range, e.g. something like blunderbuss should be on AA.
    Scrap Rifle Test has nice weapon that could fit the role of rifle for engi.

    You don't want that mechanic. You think you do but really don't. Ranger is the only class with 2 weapons with that inner workings (axe and shortbow) and it feels terrible. a ranged weapon where to do any damage you have to stay in melee.

    Engi weapons are fine. There is no need to touch them at all.
    I wouldn't ask for a rework because what you may get is not what you will enjoy.

    If you ask me, maybe rework how bomb kit targets, because nobody likes the click fiesta, but other than that as i said, engi weapons don't need any tinkering.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Engi weapons are fine like it is, all of them has uses and Holo brings even more with the holo weapons.

    Holo brought a (1) weapon.

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  • @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    I would rework rifle. This weapon should work as a shotgun, which can strike more targets at once and weapon is more precise in short range, e.g. something like blunderbuss should be on AA.
    Scrap Rifle Test has nice weapon that could fit the role of rifle for engi.

    You don't want that mechanic. You think you do but really don't. Ranger is the only class with 2 weapons with that inner workings (axe and shortbow) and it feels terrible. a ranged weapon where to do any damage you have to stay in melee.

    Engi weapons are fine. There is no need to touch them at all.
    I wouldn't ask for a rework because what you may get is not what you will enjoy.

    If you ask me, maybe rework how bomb kit targets, because nobody likes the click fiesta, but other than that as i said, engi weapons don't need any tinkering.

    I don't want rifle to shot 5 bullets at once just like ranger's axe works or Refracting Cutter (Holo sword 2). Blunderbuss strikes in area before the character, but there are no projectiles (damage comes immidiately).

    I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2019

    @Antycypator.9874 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    I would rework rifle. This weapon should work as a shotgun, which can strike more targets at once and weapon is more precise in short range, e.g. something like blunderbuss should be on AA.
    Scrap Rifle Test has nice weapon that could fit the role of rifle for engi.

    You don't want that mechanic. You think you do but really don't. Ranger is the only class with 2 weapons with that inner workings (axe and shortbow) and it feels terrible. a ranged weapon where to do any damage you have to stay in melee.

    Engi weapons are fine. There is no need to touch them at all.
    I wouldn't ask for a rework because what you may get is not what you will enjoy.

    If you ask me, maybe rework how bomb kit targets, because nobody likes the click fiesta, but other than that as i said, engi weapons don't need any tinkering.

    I don't want rifle to shot 5 bullets at once just like ranger's axe works or Refracting Cutter (Holo sword 2). Blunderbuss strikes in area before the character, but there are no projectiles (damage comes immidiately).

    I think reworking Rifle to a shotgun sounds appealing but, as I'd said earlier in this thread, I think Rifle is good as is. Though said opinion will obviously vary, I strongly feel it is less of an opinion and more of a fact. There are only a few weapons in the game that are as well balanced as Engi Rifle, such as Ranger's Greatsword. Every skill has high value and the weapon is very versatile. Most weapons for any given profession have at least one or two skills that aren't used often, or don't do much to impact the fight. Where as Engi Rifle ( and Ranger GS ) get good use out of all of them with each having a significant impact.

    I agree that it's a little awkward to use at times, with how it seems to want to be both a ranged weapon and a melee weapon at the same time, but it's because it's supposed to compliment kits. And even without, it functions quite well because it has some very heavily damaging skills ( Blunderbuss, Jump Shot ) and a low cooldown lengthy CC ( Overcharged Shot ).

    I wouldn't want Rifle to be touched, personally. Small numbers type changes, or things like removing or adding conditions, would be all I'd ever want to see for it. One thing I really enjoyed was the brief period where Net Shot could be shot behind you while moving forward. I guess that was a bug, and it makes sense, but I'd like for that to come back. It made kiting with it a lot easier and it's not like the projectile isn't relatively slow and very visible.

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  • Pistols suck..please fix