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How to carry games with a thief in pvp


Temper.2190

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So I'm a gold 2 pvper, and I really like the slippery feel of playing thief. However, I've noticed something. I've had a few seasons where I end up in silver 3 after placements, and can't seem to climb with my thief. If I switch to a solid team fighter, like reaper, I climb back up to gold 2 or 3, and can then switch back to thief, where I can now maintain rating, and stay pretty consistent, with some swings up and down.

This happened again this season, with my placements putting me in silver 3, and so far I've been unable to climb much on thief. I think the reason is that at lower ranks people die too fast for plus ones to happen regularly, and the best way to carry games is to swing team fights.

So, experienced thieves, how do you carry as a thief? How do you approach team fights?

I play mostly d/p (I'm addicted to the mobility and feeling that there is always something I can do to avoid doing or outplay), but am comfortable on s/d and less so on deadeye. In team fights I tend to focus a target that can cause a lot of damage if left to free cast, like a deadeye or soulbeast or necro. Next on my list is a guardian, followed last by duelist specs like warriors.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

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@Temper.2190 said:I think the reason is that at lower ranks people die too fast for plus ones to happen regularly

You have basically answered your own question.

You can almost never carry matches as a Thief, Thief only secures them. Meaning you can't win just by thiefing if your team can't hold their own for at least a while or if they ignore nodes.

If you want to carry matches, you need to babysit teamfights or duel side-nodes/hold 1v2s, which you are not going to do as a Thief.

Ironical example; support FB is generally bad for Solo-que but it still has much higher carry potential than Thief despite the fact that Thief is better for Solo-que than support FB.

If you want to carry then you will be better of on a teamfighter or duelist.

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Even bluri / Sindrener can't carry in silver or gold solo q. It's not possible on teef. If your team ignores your strengths (which usually happens on that skill level) you can't contribute while any other class is more flexible in contributing in different ways.

If you have a team of 5 players that have map awareness, know their strengths and weaknesses, don't overextent, don't get greedy pushing far ... you can contribute on teef.

If you have a team of players that go to metabattle.com, copy paste a build, spam buttons, don't look at the map just one single time in the whole matchup, run into outnumbered mid fights ... thief is the worst possible class you can pick as it just takes a little focus fire competence or simply an aoe class in the opposing team to completely shut you down / push you into defense.

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For one, DP. You won't be able to do much with that. sword/anything tends to work better. With dp, you can't stay in the fight long enough, as blind only works on one opponent and you'll probably have to contribute more to teamfights (where there's aoe flying around) than you may be used to.

I manage well enough on rifle/sword-pistol DE. Carrying is kinda possible, even in a midfight due to a quickness/cleave, and people struggling to deal with rifle up into gold.

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The catch about playing gold2 and 3 is to make decisions that make the difference.Basically, try to aim for moves that can create momentum for your team.

Thief can technically drag a game for as long they want by just decapping everything and spreading the enemy team. Bid for time and seek opportunities.

All that said, yes. Thief is an annoying class to climb to gold. Strategy means nothing when your teammates die in 5 seconds on every team fight.

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Thanks, all. These have been pretty helpful.

I had a game today in which I had 23 kills, but we still lost 497-502. I was salty about it for a second, then thought about the two deaths I had. Both came from being greedy- one from not disengaging from a 2v1 after a mesmer and a guardian jumped me while I was capping home. I killed the guardian, but blew most of my kit to do so. I knew I should leave then, but stayed and ended up dead. If I'd been smarter and not died I would have carried that game. I can think of a couple of other misplays as well-I focused the wrong target in the last 15 seconds and didn't get the kill we needed to secure the game.

I guess this illustrates what I love about thief. I always feel like I'm in control of when I will die. If I'm smart, I should almost always be able to disengage before being killed. It also illustrates what some of you have said, that at low rating nothing is as important as swinging team fights, and I find I can't stay in a hot mid for long on d/p.

As multiple of you have suggested, perhaps I'll start playing more S/D and deadeye, or maybe even staff, to focus more on team fights.

.... Or I'll try out some of that symbolbrand stuff going around until I get back to gold 2 ;)

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@KrHome.1920 said:Even bluri / Sindrener can't carry in silver or gold solo q. It's not possible on teef. If your team ignores your strengths (which usually happens on that skill level) you can't contribute while any other class is more flexible in contributing in different ways.

If you have a team of 5 players that have map awareness, know their strengths and weaknesses, don't overextent, don't get greedy pushing far ... you can contribute on teef.

If you have a team of players that go to metabattle.com, copy paste a build, spam buttons, don't look at the map just one single time in the whole matchup, run into outnumbered mid fights ... thief is the worst possible class you can pick as it just takes a little focus fire competence or simply an aoe class in the opposing team to completely shut you down / push you into defense.

Thats a lie ive climbed solo from bronze to legend mind u it was in HoT tho

Also done placements and got legend several times from it

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Don't listen to these people saying you cant carry as a thief or you cant do this, or you cant do that... It depends on the type of thief you play. You see plenty of thieves carrying in matches and you wonder how they do it? Look at their setup. Usually the "carry thieves" are D/D or Staff. Because they are meant to fight and win 1v1 and 1v2 fights. Usually they will camp far and stack points by killing everybody that tries to take it from them. The thing with that playstyle, you got to hope you have a team that can hold their own on mid. Carrying really isn't a 1 man thing... You still need your team to do their job as well. Teamwork and communication is always the key. Communicate and always watch the map and most importantly.. HAVE FUN! its just a game.

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@"rowdy.5107" said:Don't listen to these people saying you cant carry as a thief or you cant do this, or you cant do that... It depends on the type of thief you play. You see plenty of thieves carrying in matches and you wonder how they do it? Look at their setup. Usually the "carry thieves" are D/D or Staff. Because they are meant to fight and win 1v1 and 1v2 fights. Usually they will camp far and stack points by killing everybody that tries to take it from them. The thing with that playstyle, you got to hope you have a team that can hold their own on mid. Carrying really isn't a 1 man thing... You still need your team to do their job as well. Teamwork and communication is always the key. Communicate and always watch the map and most importantly.. HAVE FUN! its just a game.

Despite mainly being a roamer, a good thief has a multitude of ways to carry.

You can keep 2 people busy near the far point for a good minute or so, or actually outduel some classes if you're knowledgeable enough (with decent micro).

Generally speaking, as others have pointed out, you want to be fast - unload your burst and move on, even if the target doesn't die. Early leads and catchups are snowballed from small advantages, which is what your goal is to provide your team with.

You should be asking yourself,

1) What is the win condition of this game,

2) How do I contribute,

3) What are the requirements for me to contribute?

Mind you, this is a constantly evolving progress that includes the skirmishes and movement you're performing all around the map.

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I did that this season actually. Went from silver 3 to plat 1 in 2 weeks all thief.

For reference. I quit for 2 seasons. Was 1560-1580 before as warrior.

Some notes. You don't have to always get the +1. You can go. Burn their cool downs. Help decap or cap the node and leave. As warrior I hated when a thief comes forces me off node. Now other guy has it n I had to win it back. Which some times takes alot of time.

You will get screamed and shouted at, esp in gold.But it's just a waste of time to be there if you can't get the kill and sit around.

Other thing is. Keep track of their sidenoder. You decap. See sidenoder coming. Sword 2 port on him and bow to mid. Pot shot. U see him come back. Port on him and bow to far. Now he has to run all the way back and cap and you can continue to put shot.

Last thing If you know you will die or can't contribute. For example if their team has double fb and you are condi or some classes that you know you can't help kill. Just ignore them and go else where. Team m8s might shout at you. Doesn't matter. Don't waste time.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Even bluri / Sindrener can't carry in silver or gold solo q. It's not possible on teef. If your team ignores your strengths (which usually happens on that skill level) you can't contribute while any other class is more flexible in contributing in different ways.

If you have a team of 5 players that have map awareness, know their strengths and weaknesses, don't overextent, don't get greedy pushing far ... you can contribute on teef.

If you have a team of players that go to metabattle.com, copy paste a build, spam buttons, don't look at the map just one single time in the whole matchup, run into outnumbered mid fights ... thief is the worst possible class you can pick as it just takes a little focus fire competence or simply an aoe class in the opposing team to completely shut you down / push you into defense.

That's a lie. I got from silver 3 to plat 1 just this month. Took 2 weeks.

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One more point. Patience.. wait till you use your burst by reading the icons on their bar. Like a guardian's focus 5 and renew focus. Wait for them to use it before you burst. This is a basic more. But one that helped me alot. Watch for when they burn their defenses then u lay on the hurt.

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Few advice i always give:

The more you know all classes the better you will understand thief, its all about knowing when to burst and to avoid damage.

Speed of rotations and +1 is the last step that is the difference between a good and bad thief, you can always maximize the time of a +1 you cant spend a minute 2v1ing a target it has to be quick

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@bluri.2653 said:Few advice i always give:

The more you know all classes the better you will understand thief, its all about knowing when to burst and to avoid damage.

Speed of rotations and +1 is the last step that is the difference between a good and bad thief, you can always maximize the time of a +1 you cant spend a minute 2v1ing a target it has to be quick

This is also the reason core thief is favored in higher tiers over deadeye. You don't have to wait for an opening as long, and reflects don't force you to wait for 5-6 seconds, which is a lengthy period of time in a thief's life.

That, and being flatout countered by revenants and holosmith.

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@bluri.2653 said:Simple answer, move faster without hesitation and plus one faster. Also picking what fight to +1 is essential

@"Temper.2190" said:Thanks, all. These have been pretty helpful.

I had a game today in which I had 23 kills, but we still lost 497-502. I was salty about it for a second, then thought about the two deaths I had. Both came from being greedy- one from not disengaging from a 2v1 after a mesmer and a guardian jumped me while I was capping home. I killed the guardian, but blew most of my kit to do so. I knew I should leave then, but stayed and ended up dead. If I'd been smarter and not died I would have carried that game. I can think of a couple of other misplays as well-I focused the wrong target in the last 15 seconds and didn't get the kill we needed to secure the game.

I guess this illustrates what I love about thief. I always feel like I'm in control of when I will die. If I'm smart, I should almost always be able to disengage before being killed. It also illustrates what some of you have said, that at low rating nothing is as important as swinging team fights, and I find I can't stay in a hot mid for long on d/p.

As multiple of you have suggested, perhaps I'll start playing more S/D and deadeye, or maybe even staff, to focus more on team fights.

.... Or I'll try out some of that symbolbrand stuff going around until I get back to gold 2 ;)

Like bluri said, but it seems like you are getting the idea. :)

The key to playing thief is using your mobility and making smart plays to control the map, whilst not getting overeager and getting killed (I have some problems with that bit lol). Do things to draw enemies away from fights or across the map- decap, make people chase you, +1- essentially do anything that can pull the other team out of position on a second's notice. Map awareness is definitely key.

I am not a super good build crafter, so take this with a grain of salt, but if d/p isn't working for you and you still want high mobility, maybe try this? it's not as fast a killer in +1 or a duel, but it gives the option to seriously kitten up a teamfight from the edges with shortbow 4, and with proper kiting it can be pretty survivable.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlRwuYOsFWJOuWnNXA-zZx8MyUBkvUwpDA

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