If there was no stacking — Guild Wars 2 Forums

If there was no stacking

Ryudnard.2587Ryudnard.2587 Member ✭✭✭

It would have totally changed WvW experience. Like in world of warcraft, you can't infinitely stack at one spot. There are collisions and players will start pushing out each other. I think this wouldve been a better platform for wvw. We can always dodge when we are crowded. And it will nautrally discourage stacking. Sure, it will make it much more difficult to control the big zerg as a commander. But that just means more coordinated team play.

Comments

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh yes, also dont let ppl pass through enemies so its an actual class and 5 fulltanks block a keepgate with their bodies. Now we can also not just gank the poor ppl running to their zerg, we can block them off in corners and wait until they log out.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Collision detection, unrestricted AoE, no combat speed. Things for a different game

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Ryudnard.2587 said:
    It would have totally changed WvW experience. Like in world of warcraft, you can't infinitely stack at one spot. There are collisions and players will start pushing out each other. I think this wouldve been a better platform for wvw. We can always dodge when we are crowded. And it will nautrally discourage stacking. Sure, it will make it much more difficult to control the big zerg as a commander. But that just means more coordinated team play.

    Might have something else to do with if you try to mass AoE bomb people in WoW, the enemy healers would just stand there and be like: "Am I a joke to you?"

    EDIT: Well, the Horde will say that. Healer classes are disabled for Alliance PvP players I'd heard.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    I'm pretty sure that there is no player collision in WoW. The reason why there is no stacking there is because you are not forced to do so. In WoW you can give buffs and heal from a decent distance away. In additon, buffs last for a long time and you do not have to constantly reapply them. GW2 is the opposite where boons need to be reapplied constantly and you need to stack so that you are in range of the pbAoE boon applications. A large amount of the healing is also done in a pbAoE and is not targeted to specific players. Basically GW2 does everything possible to force stacking. This is why trying to stop stacking and breaking up zergs cannot work. Anet even put in instabs in fractals specifically to stop stacking, but nothing they do works. You absolutely must stack or you are in a severe disadvantage. The only way to change this is to change how boons and healing work.

    Yup.

    The devs wanted to build a game mostly designed for damage roles, and created the majority of support roles and skills to be about stack and spam gameplay. The team didn’t even want healers in-game when designing GW2. At least they made a lil effort with HoT in the support role area, but the support designs and builds leave a whole lot to be desired.

    Maybe GW3 will have better support builds, and other optional roles, like players wanted for this game.

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    Ahhh collisions..like in Guild Wars you mean? Blocking those mobs with walls with your tank, etc?

    Nah, will never catch on. Just another great feature of Guild Wars that never made it to GW2. At least build templates were available from day one and shareable, right? No wait a minute, that didn't happen either and they have only just got around to a monetised version now...

  • we shouldn't just get nudged out, we should get knocked back 1200 units.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I miss warhammer online...

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I miss warhammer online...

    WAAAGH! Tank wall! Third floor GOGOGO!

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I miss warhammer online...

    WAAAGH! Tank wall! Third floor GOGOGO!

    Proper tanking, damage sharing! Tanks who all died at once because they shared each others' damage! Awesome and epic brother/sisterhood.

    .. if only there was a Return of Reckoning... cough * hint hint *cough

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    I thought you were talking about server stacking.

    I have no idea why there have been several recent threads/posts discussing changing the combat systems of GW2, when the combat systems that do exist are a few (of the few) things that tends to work well, stand the test of time mechanically and keeps people playing. There already is form of collisions here through abilities. Alot of the normative movement involves running into each other and dodge or bump. It just isn't body collision but ability collision.

    They could work on that and improve it, you could easily have the same feeling/effect through these means if properly designed (less stuns, more launches and knockbacks; reworked to be more tied into shorter range abilities, etc.). The foundation to develop something like that upon is already here, it has always been here. It could be a part of a rework/overhaul project, the tech exists. It only requires attention to the mode and vision for a design project.

    [spoiler]
    The same goes for stuff mentioned elsewhere. The combat systems of GW2 are intricate enough to be action oriented yet scalable enough to fit an MMO. For that purpose I would argue that alot of newer combat systems (AA, BDO etc.) are inferior to GW2 for the broad type of content we see here. It's all about playing what a game does well and designing upon what a game does well. To me, the core combat systems of GW2 does not feel old. The diversions from that path is what feels dated and stale. Whether we're talking collision, crosshairs or whatever else it just feels out of place and uninformed. It is something other games trendily do. The people who argue for more complexity or speed added to the GW2 combat systems usually do that from the perspective of only one type of subcontent (eg., duels) yet this is an MMO and a mode with multiple layers of coexisting content (where centre spectrum tend to work better than extremities, ie., 1v1 being worse balanced than 5v5 and 25v25 being better balanced than 100v100; that's a sign of health, not a problem but a good thing for an MMO). GW2 is an MMO.

    Ed. I'm, going off on a tirade here but I have time and energy to spare so I figured I'd share. Those things baffle me overall. The players who come to play only for the story content or only want to roam or duel 1v1. Why the meow are they playing an MMO? It makes no sense to me. If you just want to do that, there are certainly far better options out there. As a player that like MMO's, I like that solo roaming and duels exist but if you flip the perspective I don't see why you would do only that or more accurately, why you can't objectively see the other options/players and understand the value of a broader variety in an MMO. People may say similar things about WvW as a whole, that we are not the target audience. However, the design documents that were released for this game and any official communication we've had on the matter says that we are a supposed target audience of this game. We can discuss the voracity of those statements but until a statement to the contrary is made it is fair game to take a position for WvW.

    It may seem as if I am floating off topic here but a position for WvW involves resources given to WvW (even if it is a sandbox and pet turtle in comparison to a dog, it mostly takes care of itself, no walks, poop bags or chew toys, but you have to feed it once in a while and you can't feed it dog food) and resources given to WvW could end up in a vision and design-focus that would include an overhaul that uses existing tech to create better "collision" mechanics. It all ties together. That Anet have managed to fail so much with WvW is actually a feat all in itself. It is really a good core design with low maintenence. They just leave it starving for too long and then startledly try to feed it dog food. At least Cal seems interested in what turtles eat, but an overhaul requires more resources and a vision requires leadership on a design level akin to making a new game. The kind of attention a sandbox needs (rules, physics, design, balance), things that lets you play in the sand.[/spoiler]

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    I miss warhammer online...

    WAAAGH! Tank wall! Third floor GOGOGO!

    Proper tanking, damage sharing! Tanks who all died at once because they shared each others' damage! Awesome and epic brother/sisterhood.

    .. if only there was a Return of Reckoning... cough * hint hint *cough

    I played on return of reckoning for like 6 months a few years ago... the dev staff are a hot mess, they nerfed black dye to be a dark grey dye cause texture reasons, like, really... since then they had big drama and a fall out and even a split community into another version.. played back then it was only up to t2 rvr, was fun while that lasted..

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Optimator.3589Optimator.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The servers are barely functional in blob v blob fights as it is. And you want to add collision detection to the workload?

    At no level is this game built to discourage stacking. Boons, heals, target caps, you name it, the mechanic lends itself to stacking.

    REDUCE NA TO 3 TIERS

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tank walls would be good for squad combat. To force collision against enemy players would change a lot the strategies in the game as now flanking and blockages would make sense.

    Colissions with allies would eb very annoying thou. Imagine all the zerg passing thru any of the corridors in SM. That would be very annoying.
    To fight the stacking there could be conditions which damage allies if they are overlaping . For example : Burning damage allies in 90 radius. Poison could be another one.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Body blocking in GW1 often instigated rubber banding the blocked player...so I doubt it will play out well with the current server lag.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Collision fights can be fun, it certainly makes chokes more useful and interesting. While it can be annoying bumping into others it also means you need to be more coordinated with those around, it also works really well as front line shield walls go up to protect entrances and backline. Having said that, it has absolutely no place in gw2 because of how much aoe, cc, and damage is around, a game has to be built around it for it to work properly.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    :/ everyone will be range when this happens. gg


    the way to adapt right now is ppl outnumber u is to let them have it. and go elsewhere.

    let them be bored with no bags.

    yet some are simply happy to rotate the capture of stuff. keke

    eotm babya

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If collision was something they have the ability to turn off and on, wouldn't mind trying a week of it. It would be a direct counter to biggest zerg wins since a larger group would have more issues running into each other.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501

    Shout-out for great post.


    The only way I can imagine collision detection + body block to work well in this game, would be to reduce the speed of both/all players if they overlap. That way setting a "tank wall" would effectively create a "slow wall" the enemy had to push through, a good spot to nuke. Without removing the existing stacking options, just give it a disadvantage.

    A full body-block system, while it would be utterly amazeballs hilarious to watch in zerg fights, would be more negative than positive for pretty much the entire game. And that's not even looking at all the trolling options.

    Just imagine 50 players standing in front of a door waiting for the ram, and realize they can't actually move and are stuck inbetween the other players until they move.

    I like the idea OP posts, that it might encourage more small/medium scale operations. I just can't think of a way to connect that with what I'd expect happen with body-blocking / Collision Detection etc.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    "GW2 is a MSOFGG: Mass Singleplayer Online Fashion Grinding Game" -me

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @joneirikb.7506 said:

    A full body-block system, while it would be utterly amazeballs hilarious to watch in zerg fights, would be more negative than positive for pretty much the entire game. And that's not even looking at all the trolling options.

    Just imagine 50 players standing in front of a door waiting for the ram, and realize they can't actually move and are stuck inbetween the other players until they move.

    But we don't need to imagine it, any Warhammer Online players could speak to it. It made your positioning important. Your DPS, you need to get around/thru that tank wall to hit those healers before their DPS would tear you down. Flanking attacks had all that more value since you could pin a zerg down between multiple groups. Now we can't speak towards how it would impact this code and these servers but this was older tech and servers and it could handle massive fights. But you are right, whether or not players here could handle is a different discussion, especially if they hadn't encountered the system in another WvW/RvR style game. There is a distinct price if you push up and then can't get back. Do or die time.

    I do think collision would spread fights out more since people would have to move and that by itself would change metas and the imbalance of zerg versus havoc. Just due to spacing a side might have more over a larger space but the fight would be limited to 2 subgroups else risk getting body blocked. Again if it was something that could be toggled on/off, would love a test week here.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This week's reset will be awesome in NA when BP/FC blob meets JQ/HoD blob in tier 1.

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭

    So enable social awkwardness in WvW. Lets make it really interesting and turn on slippery slope. We would look like Plinko board when we run down a hill.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    Could a similar effect be achieved by having a cap on allies lowered in WvW ?
    10 allies => 5 allies
    5 allies => 3 allies
    3 allies => 2 allies
    So, offensive AoE get better against defensive AoE when people stacks ?
    We can also imagine a projectile reflect/destroyed cap (~10)

  • I would love collision, worked wonders in warhammer online. Would reduce zerg sizes...or they would just get stuck on each other going through chokepoints which is also awesome, hehe

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭

    The processing needed for the sheer number of ongoing physics checks for friendly collision would make the current level of skill delay lag look like fast reaction times.

  • @Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:
    I would love collision, worked wonders in warhammer online. Would reduce zerg sizes...or they would just get stuck on each other going through chokepoints which is also awesome, hehe

    Hold the Line was the best thing ever. You didn't need gates, you just blocked entrances with bodies, it was a lot of fun.

    If GW2 can't do collision, then maybe a de-buff if you're humpin' an ally within a certain range; force people to spread out.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Social awkwardness week.
    Or heck, they could stealth drop it on April fools for all I care.
    It'd be hilarious! Better invest in AR!

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Fort Aspenwood.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But that just means more coordinated team play.

    Indeed. You could work together to push teammates you don't like off cliffs. ;)

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2019

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:

    But that just means more coordinated team play.

    Indeed. You could work together to push teammates you don't like off cliffs. ;)

    That would be worth the price of an expansion.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    Ahhh collisions..like in Guild Wars you mean? Blocking those mobs with walls with your tank, etc?

    Nah, will never catch on. Just another great feature of Guild Wars that never made it to GW2. At least build templates were available from day one and shareable, right? No wait a minute, that didn't happen either and they have only just got around to a monetised version now...

    From a computing point of view. collisions slow things down. If you think the lag in WvW is bad now, you just try adding collisions, which would require a lot more calculations for the server. The reason why you could do that in Guild Wars 1 is because you didn't have zergs in Guild Wars 1. You had nothing even remotely like WvW in Guild Wars 1. It would probably have been okay in SPvP, but not in anything where you have a lot of players in the same area at the same time.