Today is being a sad day. Tomorrow will be even sadder .

When even the known streamers kick rangers from a half filled squads with no doubts or regrets the example they set it is too sad.
But when in the full squad you see they are only scourges, firebrands, 2 warriors and 5 revenants is even sadder.

Well done Anet, this is great.

So start your own ranger only squad and teach them nasty boys a lesson rofl.

Let's be real, if you commanded on a ranger you would expect a healthy number of firebrands, scourges, spellbreakers and lolHammer revs yes? The commander probably only wanted a certain number of players to keep it small and didn't want a pug zerg, which means cutting the fat.

make a havock group of beastmasters, get a port into the zerg and u guys will down a massive amount of players and for sure u have the roations to bail/reset out of there, thats how strong beastmaster can be built for.

I disagree. At least theyre communicating the upcoming changes, at least theyre trying to address the main problems. That means more classes in the zerg, in the future, maybe.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I disagree. At least theyre communicating the upcoming changes, at least theyre trying to address the main problems. That means more classes in the zerg, in the future, maybe.

yeah but ranger to be on the zerg >_>the only thing game ofers so they will do it in a way or other.. aoe damage / boon spam and it needs to get broken or help carry so players can be acepted... sadly thats how gw2 work.

I dont get it. What happens today... will happen tomorrow too?

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont get it. What happens today... will happen tomorrow too?

I think it´s like .. in this film .. Groundhog Day .. spooky :(

If you can't swap to a more useful class and be more of a "team player" why shouldn't they kick you? What is it about "Ranger mains" that makes them so resistant to playing other classes? It's not personal, it's not an insult, they just want a better group composition. If you refuse, then they are well within their rights to kick you.

Unless your running a map que or 50+, all my classes will be those mentioned above with some slight differences... if not, I will put all roaming classes in squad 1 so they can feel like a part of the team as well. They should know at this point that their role is to fight outside of the zerg on engage, not push with me...

What happens ina squad stays ina

Not every class is meant to fill every role in WvW. Thanks to rally, non-meta group builds particularly thieves and rangers are dead weight most of the time.

@anduriell.6280 said:When even the known streamers kick rangers from a half filled squads with no doubts or regrets the example they set it is too sad.

But when in the full squad you see they are only scourges, firebrands, 2 warriors and 5 revenants is even sadder.

Well done Anet, this is great.

It's almost like this exact thread has been made every year since the game came out. Spooky that.

You could go play with Packit. VOID cares and fields lots of rangers. Not sure what server he's on now.

All commanders should have to accept me and do whatever I tell them to.They are the property of everyone on the server, I paid for this game!

Maybe if ranger players knew how to do damage people would accept them. In all my time playing ive seen maybe a half dozen rangers who could do meaningful zerg dps. Maybe if the meta wasnt 100% centered around boons that only 1 class can give and 1 class can corrupt there would be more class/build diversity.

Because similar to condi mirages, condi thieves, rifle deadeyes (unlike staff daredevils), rifle holo, and other roaming specs there's no reason for you to be in the squad.Rangers are a large liability due to pets not being invis under stealth gyro or veil (same with minis), reflects and retaliation and it seems most rangers will not stop attacking at bubbles (firebrand or spellbreaker) or scrappers doing electrowhirl. There's also the cliche of rangers using point blank shot (LB 4) to push targets out of AoE that other party members lay down. Soulbeast solves the pet issue but still leaves the projectile problem. You're better off with Dragonhunters (because anyone that's been stuck in Hunter's ward knows how annoying that is) if you want to use longbow or Heralds most of the time.

Rangers are best for taking down sentries and capping camps. If you want to make a squad-based spec you're looking at:Firebrand (stability , MI res, spike heal via tome, aegis) : stability via Stand your Ground and elite mantra and/or Tome of Courage --- immense stacking potential due to Battle presence and tome cooldownsScrapper (cleanses into boons, stealth gyro , healing , function gyro res/finish , superspeed) : cleanses ---- heals better with revenant boon output along with boons from condition; due to how it stacks you need to take into account scourge/firebrand cleansesHerald (Fury, might, swiftness, regen , ranged power DPS + CC , superspeed/protection) : due to the way CoR stacks and is buggy you want roughly 1 per 10 people rather than 1 per party ---- highly reliant on condi clearsScourge (Corrupts, cleanses, barrier , ranged pressure damage due to 10 targets , soft CC such as cripple /chill mainly but also fear) --- stacks insanely (see well of corruption / shades , devouring darkness) and snowballs fights due to life force mechanic ; highly reliant on swiftness + stabilitySpellbreaker (boon strip , melee CC) --- very high sustain and defy pain means it requires far less support than scourge ; if not running "Shake it Off" and defense traitline is susceptible to condisWeaver/Power tempest (staff area denial/eliminating siege on inner side of walls via meteor shower) --- highly reliant on protection + stability and requires player to not insta-die on enemy pushSupport Aura Tempest (powerful passive healing while being able to switch to siege elimination with a simple equipment template swap , possible superspeed)Daredevil (power staff vault/bound for finishing downed or high damage to enemies off tag; spammable poison fields on shortbow to disrupt M.I. res) --- not necessarily in squad , high mobility & evasion means it is less vulnerable to enemy pushMirage is a condi spec typically so is generally better off roaming ; you can run power chrono (sword+shield) or core mesmer with sword+focus + Greatsword and do less damage but provide utility in the form of veil/mass invis (squads of 10) , mantra stability, and possibly some quickness if you have clone generation (Time Warp only good for lord room fights). Focus pulls still remain relevant if stability has been stripped. Spellbreaker bubble is stronger than gravity well for stability removal due to being mobile ---- squad play is only good if running mantra of stability and Blurred Inscriptions (distortion = shared aegis)

Prior to chrono changes to requiring clones and signet of inspiration being gutted for group play I used to run chrono quite often , but you have to keep in mind with scrappers' stealth gyro being a blastable stealth (smoke field , much like s/p or d/p thief but without getting revealed due to damage from the skill making the field) it makes an entire squad invisible for far longer.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I disagree. At least theyre communicating the upcoming changes, at least theyre trying to address the main problems. That means more classes in the zerg, in the future, maybe.

I don't think, that that's what's gonna happen.Most likely will be:Scourges have 60% less corrupts? Let's stack even more of them to make up for the loss, else we won't be able to kill the enemy because of the insane amount of boonspam

Some ppl just prefer to lose outnumbered instead of winning with a clouding zerg, sad but nothing new. Didn't you know that a player that has a handfull of minutes fighting as scourge per week performs better than a roamer that stays on his SlB? Didn't you know that a dead scourge with 30k damage and 10 boon corrupts is meta? :p

If you don't like it -> make your own squad ;) Ok, there are only 50ish ppl left that play WvW on each server, so it might be a bit of a problem when 20 ppl make a meta zerg on EBG, another 20 ppl make a casual squad on blue and another 10 ppl do karma train on green map, but hey, WvW logic always had its flaws :3

@primatos.5413 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont get it. What happens today... will happen tomorrow too?

I was thinking Edge of Tomorrow myself, though I agree that Bill Murray > Tom Cruise

@"SWI.4127" said:If you can't swap to a more useful class and be more of a "team player" why shouldn't they kick you? What is it about "Ranger mains" that makes them so resistant to playing other classes? It's not personal, it's not an insult, they just want a better group composition. If you refuse, then they are well within their rights to kick you.

I think it's okay to be passionate about your class, but just as you've said, it isn't a personal insult when it isn't wanted. I've seen many discussions in the past where one party or another gets irrationally angry about their favorite class being insulted, or not wanted. It seems like the desire to fit in to me. Some people feel attacked because they can't join "the party" based on the class they play, and thus feel the need to attach themselves more deeply to their class to justify why they weren't wanted... Rather than realizing they can function just fine on their own, because many of the classes that aren't optimal for a zerg comp are more capable of supporting themselves than ones that are.

To anyone who thinks they deserve to have that place in a squad, just remember; you can have it if you're willing to play what fits it.

@anduriell.6280 said:When even the known streamers kick rangers from a half filled squads with no doubts or regrets the example they set it is too sad.

But when in the full squad you see they are only scourges, firebrands, 2 warriors and 5 revenants is even sadder.

Well done Anet, this is great.If more rangers specced properly and played well this wouldnt be a problem, the reality is most wvw rangers are living a longbow class fantasy and bringing nothing to a squad.The ability is there for Rangers to run a build that enhances a team and provides value but most rangers in wvw are just too bad at the game to bother and bring underperforming weapons like LB.If I were try-harding I would get all rangers off my squad until they proved they were specced properly . This has zero to do with Arenanet and their balance and more to do with the absolute trash gameplay the vast majority of rangers bring to a team.

@enkidu.5937 said:

If you don't like it -> make your own squad ;) Ok, there are only 50ish ppl left that play WvW on each server, so it might be a bit of a problem when 20 ppl make a meta zerg on EBG, another 20 ppl make a casual squad on blue and another 10 ppl do karma train on green map, but hey, WvW logic always had its flaws :3

Actually if it encourages people to split up the blob then good.

The three groups would also be more effective than one group of 50. Of course, not in fighting the 50 from another server, but in flipping items which will either force the other group to split, or loose their stuff.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@enkidu.5937 said:

If you don't like it -> make your own squad ;) Ok, there are only 50ish ppl left that play WvW on each server, so it might be a bit of a problem when

20 ppl make a meta zerg on EBG, another 20 ppl make a casual squad on blue and another 10 ppl do karma train on green map,

but hey, WvW logic always had its flaws :3

@"SWI.4127" said:If you can't swap to a more useful class and be more of a "team player" why shouldn't they kick you? What is it about "Ranger mains" that makes them so resistant to playing other classes? It's not personal, it's not an insult, they just want a better group composition. If you refuse, then they are well within their rights to kick you.

oh right because it's tons of fun to leave your main and most used class, you know the one you actually enjoy the most, to grab one of the stupid meta classes that are either so easy to play it gets boring, or so difficult you feel you are doing nothing for your team at all or just pressing random buttons

plus it's really fun to go farm a full set of gear that everyone else is using, same stats and traits, same skills in the same rotation and just be another copy pasted player following the trend, a set of gear you won't use again in any other game mode, or even in the same game mode with no zerg around

Also the game has become really fun, with groups fighting against groups with the exactly same composition and builds, because every other playstyle is useless or anet destroys it even before it can become a thing

So freaking fun to see the same scourge+fb meta for the last 2 years, or to see how every zerg runs from each other spamming trash skills on the floor looking at who is so stupid to engage first, or repeating the same stupid and predictable smoke field blasts over and over again

im not a ranger main, i don't even play ranger but i can feel for this guy, class variation is non existant, fights had become so predictable they all look the same, huge groups avoiding each other until one pushes so the other can fill the map with red marks, the biggest zerg will always win because team comp is exactly the same, even the recicled tactics suck, like for example the smoke field blast versus the old mesmer double veil, they take no skill whatsoever now a days.

Fights were much much better when team comp was wider, with tons of classes and jobs for those classes to do, when you didn't need a mandatory fb or necro, because some other class could do the job too, when we had no fucking dedicated healer and support class that overshines every other one, when guilds got their own playstyle with trademarks and unexpected tactics, now this game feels like an android mmo, and wvw feels more repetitive than it ever was, add to that how they killed roaming and boom, suddenly this game sucks

@enkidu.5937 said:True but I personally dont like those mid-size groups. Too big to effectively cover the maps and too small to get the big stuff done. It could work if they would fuse from time to time, e. g. if your home keep is under attack or to conquer an enemy T3 keep. But yeah, dont see that too often :/I've capped T3 keeps with two people before (even before the nerf to walls and gates), don't give that excuse you can't cap with 20...Use map politics to your advantage, if something else is being hit on the map or another map treb/cata from an obscure spot (not right in front of a wall or gate).>

@"mindcircus.1506" said:If more rangers specced properly and played well this wouldnt be a problem, the reality is most wvw rangers are living a longbow class fantasy and bringing nothing to a squad.The ability is there for Rangers to run a build that enhances a team and provides value but most rangers in wvw are just too bad at the game to bother and bring underperforming weapons like LB.If I were try-harding I would get all rangers off my squad until they proved they were specced properly . This has zero to do with Arenanet and their balance and more to do with the absolute trash gameplay the vast majority of rangers bring to a team.Pewpew longbow ranger is a meme at this point. Checklist:

• LB 4 to push things out of AoEs laid down by squad
• Out of range for boons , way off tag (why be in squad then)
• Rapidfire into spellbreaker/firebrand bubble or electrowhirl and eats retal and/or reflect
• Barrage on a cannon when should be hitting mortar or treb on inner wall
• Randomly chosen utility skills such as movement speed signet
• In keep/tower defense stays on wall longbow auto-ing (11111111) when everyone else is on tag
• Doesn't stow pet or go into beast mode but runs in stealth gyro fields

The other weaponsets don't really bring much to the table either:

• Axe is 100% projectile and strictly worse than necro staff if you want bleeds/chill
• Shortbow is condi-based and projectile
• Sword is strictly worse than warriors or revs running sword let alone daredevils with staff vault/bound
• Dagger hits 2 targets , similar to warriors you would rather a 3 or ideally a 5 target weapon ; the damage comes from condis
• Greatsword just does damage , you won't be able to make good use of counterattack kick when people have stability too
• Staff requires running druid and doesn't have the potency of elementalist staff in terms of heals on auto

In theory you could have stance share with Greatsword, but even then the only stance truly worth noting is One Wolf Pack which lasts around 6s on 60 cooldown.

• Bear Stance: because it is condi removal on 25s cooldown and only 3s long for allies (2 removed per second) , it pales in comparison to purge gyro or scourge condi removal on 10 cooldown
• Dolyak stance: -33% incoming condition and physical damage for ~4 seconds when traited with Leader of the Pack is about on par with Rite of the Great Dwarf on revs
• Moa stance: fury,might, swiftness are far more readily applied by revs so basically only the 66% boon duration is of value and is mostly wasted
• Vulture stance: poison/might for a few seconds isn't as potent as thief venoms if you actually decide to run this.

I've seen it myself where ranger "main" players that actually tried a proper WvW profession instead of being dead-set on ranger stay on staff necro (people that like to spam from range) or rev (people that want mobility + range). Their skill level improves as a result when they actually need to dodge and focus on positioning rather than letting pets tank everything and using longbow 3 (Hunter's shot) when needing to run.