Double Firebrand Double Herald - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Double Firebrand Double Herald

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  • Theros.1390Theros.1390 Member ✭✭✭

    @Galvin.2704 said:

    @Monkey See.1498 said:

    @Theros.1390 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver.

    I always thought that Weaver was one of the most balanced elite spe in competitives modes (compared to other overperforming ones)

    I guess I was wrong since it's also in the sights apparently.

    Weaver is probably the best 1v1 spec in the game right now. It does have some weaknesses notably how slow the meta build is since it can't afford lightning flash, probably the slowest in the game with only a minor amount of swiftness, air 2, and that's it.

    But any build that can potentially stack 45 stacks of burning onto a target, effectively doing 18,000 damage per second in burning, probably deserves a serious look in.

    https://www.twitch.tv/im_grimjack/clip/CulturedCautiousChamoisPogChamp

    Can you please stop taking stuff out of context by clipping a tiny 12-second segment? That necro was using minions with Blood Magic and Unholy Martyr trait which transfers conditions from allies to the necro when he enters the shroud, in this case it transferred condis from his minions to him. So Grim didn't stack 45 stacks of burning, it's not an issue with the Fire Weaver build.

    Here's the link to the stream twitch.tv/videos/503737460, the fight starts at about 02:40:35, he talks about the burning and trait interaction after the the fight was over. (for anyone who wants to know what actually happened there)

    @Grimjack.8130 look how they clip your stream to witch-hunt the weaver, it's actually funny.

    Thanks a lot, I was wondering how 45 stacks were possible so quickly.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Also let's just be honest here.

    Any competent DPS + two Firebrands is going to be an overtuned comp. FB self synergy is off the charts.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

    Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

    When you do that can you please not nerf dps FB or core? Last balance patch you guys aimed to lower FB support capacity you removed single aegis from ToC and left the AOE one...

    If you nerf virtues or honor, you will nerf already under performing builds. And if you kill tomes, dps FB does not become viable.

    I would focus on elite mantra and instant Rez (which should be removed).

  • If you nerf Rev, can you nerf Shiro plz ?
    Not like you always do by nerf global rev and compensate Shiro again and again (or Shiro's build with sword offhand for exemple).
    Can we play Revenant and not Shironant one day ? Shiro is mandatory for any meta build since rev's creation...

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Neil.3825 said:
    If you nerf Rev, can you nerf Shiro plz ?
    Not like you always do by nerf global rev and compensate Shiro again and again (or Shiro's build with sword offhand for exemple).
    Can we play Revenant and not Shironant one day ? Shiro is mandatory for any meta build since rev's creation...

    I see a few people saying this every now and then, but Rev builds that use Shiro outside of Glint-Herald are not considered OP. They are all considered either useless or meme tier at best.

    Shiro/Jalis - Meme
    Shiro/Kalla - PvE / Trash
    Shiro/Mallyx - Meme
    Shiro/Ventari - Trash

    Now ask yourself "Would Shiro still be strong if it didn't get +28~35% damage buffs from Herald traits + Burst of strength"?

  • Just lower the maximum stacks of might to fix the powercreep to something like 10. Doing too much damage isn't exclusive to Rev.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Monkey See.1498 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Also let's just be honest here.

    Any competent DPS + two Firebrands is going to be an overtuned comp. FB self synergy is off the charts.

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Also let's just be honest here.

    Any competent DPS + two Firebrands is going to be an overtuned comp. FB self synergy is off the charts.

    I'd say

    1 Firebrand is more secure than single or double herald. Double herald is absolutely more secure than double Firebrand.

    One of the things about meta rev at the moment is it's sheer capacity to hard stop incoming damage while it gets support, or even before it needs support.

    Let's say you're in sword+sword shiro and about to be focused you can:

    Riposting shadows > dodge > dodge > unrelenting assault > riposting shadows > weapon swap > legend swap > dodge from sigil of energy > warding rift > facet of darkness+gaze of darkness > surge of the mists (potentially 2 seconds of you land the knockdown) > facet of light+infused light > force an enemy dodge with facet of chaos+chaotic release > natural dodge > warding rift > weapon swap > legend swap > unrelenting assault > riposting shadows you can keep going.

    That's a hilariously over the top defensive rotation, probably 25 seconds of fighting right there and you're only vulnerable for I estimate about 5 of it (at work can't crunch the exact numbers).

    And between Riposting Shadows, Gaze of Darkness, Empty Vessel Legend Swap, that's 6 different stun breaks in that rotation.

    And in a real fight you aren't going to just chain defenses nonstop back to back to back like that. You'll use something like Riposting Shadows or Surge of the Mists to gain a positional advantage so you don't have to use many more defenses. You'll kite while using Warding rift while you get behind line of sight or take a jumping puzzle to safety.

    And that's not even counting porting away with Phase Traversal to a distant enemy or even an object like a gate or treb.

    You look at something you could theoretically build a team fight damage dealer around like a core necro, Holosmith, reaper, warrior, berserker, yeah they have some safety measures, some emergency tools but they just are not competing with that on any level.

    So when you lay it down like that, is it really a high skill cap class? I mean sure awareness helps and getting use to muscle memory will hold you back for a bit, but yeah there is crazy amount of defensive combos there (and offensive) if done correctly

  • Neil.3825Neil.3825 Member ✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    I see a few people saying this every now and then, but Rev builds that use Shiro outside of Glint-Herald are not considered OP. They are all considered either useless or meme tier at best.

    Shiro/Jalis - Meme
    Shiro/Kalla - PvE / Trash
    Shiro/Mallyx - Meme
    Shiro/Ventari - Trash

    Now ask yourself "Would Shiro still be strong if it didn't get +28~35% damage buffs from Herald traits + Burst of strength"?

    Shiro/Jalis - Meme , because Jalis IS a meme itself ?
    Shiro/Kalla - PvE / Trash , because Kalla is a trash leg ?
    Shiro/Mallyx - Meme , we can say the same here for Glint/Mallyx
    Shiro/Ventari - Trash , I agree with you but it's just 2 legends without synergy...

    Shiro is not just a great offensive legend, with Phase Traversal and Riposting Shadows he got the 2 best defensive utility of the profession (funny for a offensive legend, huh ?). This is why Shiro is OP.
    Look 2 sec at Jalis (our great defensive legend lol), he has no offensive impact (ok) and less defense than Shiro (not ok). If Shiro was less an escape machine, his damage will be fine.
    Glint is just here to sublimate Shiro.

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

    Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

    The problem with Herald is that it has massive sustained damage while having high mobility and high survivability, the sword autoattack, deathstrike and impossible odds are the main offenders here as a simple fix without reworking the class or completely rebalance the energy costs/cooldowns of skills to reduce the potential.

    The problem of firebrand is the combination of utility with sustain, other supports have to tradeoff between having high cc/high utility/high sustain while firebrand has all 3 at the same time. Pure of Heart and Selfless Daring give you decent selfheal while in Tomes, allowing you to stay way longer in them than u should be able to for minor traits. The ability to reset your tomes with Renewed Focus is also really broken and should be looked into, either a cooldown nerf or changing it to only reset virtues and not tomes should help with that. Weakness mantra is also way stronger than it should be but is a necessary evil with broken oneshot classes running around.

    best of the best, qtest anime girl in tyria

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ouk.5914 said:
    this probably wouldn't be an issue if we weren't allowed to Class Stack the same spec in the first place.

    Rev Alone and Fb aren't an issue at all....however when you run 2 of each then that becomes a major kitten problem. Remove the ability from people being able to stack 2+ of the same spec in games. This would probably push for a different meta and shows other spec getting played more in order to "counter" other specs.

    Imagine a monthly where people aren't stacking mesmer/fb/revs? Would probably be great because just one is fine but when you have 2 over performing specs in a game that's when it becomes stupid.

    The problem to solving class imbalance is not to prevent class stacking. If anything, class stacking reveals how dysfunctional the balance is, since a few builds can offer, everything and have better synergy stacking that same build, instead of needing other classes to add synergy.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    yea plz look at nerfing herald more while Kalla is STILL TRASH IN TPVP
    GG

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

    I guess that's the Dev Version of "PSA: Don't be mad because Rev outskilled you." :expressionless:

    While it's true that the full potential of Rev is usually only reached by mechanical top players, that doesn't mean it's not overperforming. Many top players don't inherently favour that class, they roll it because it has consistently been one of top the teamfight classes over years. The spam of portengages and the near endless chain of dodges and blocks combined with one of the best heals in the game is definitely worth looking at. Rev might not be broken on its own, but it stacks very well and has extremely high synergy with FB since the lack of stability and cleanse is probably the only downside of Rev and an FB (or even two) completely changes that.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP content

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    Please don't nerf these two classes, please for the love of god fix all the rest... Stop going the easy route and destroying the game in the process..

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

    Well mainly, it's Herald meta that is stacked. The rest of the class outside of Herald is either meme-tier or never stacked. The big reason it is played by organized teams is because Rev in general has poor sustain but excellent engage and burst damage thanks to being able to stack multiple damage mods. When supported by a FB to make up for the sustain/condi weakness issue it can end up feeling like the class has no downside in the hands of a team built around it. Alone without support, most people consider the class pretty balanced.

    A way to address the problem would thus be:
    -Forceful persistence. -> Reduced to 8% upkeep 2% Herald facets
    -Burst of strength -> Reduced to 10% damage buff on hit
    -Reinforced Potency -> Reduced to 0.75% damage per boon
    *Reasoning: Toning down Herald damage mods across the board addresses the issue that Herald gets too much free damage, and keeping it this way would mean the rest of the Rev class keeps getting nerfed around it.

    -Swift termination -> Reduced to 15% damage buff
    *Reasoning: This is the one nerf outside Herald that is mainly needed because of double stacking Revs. Two Revs bursting the same target will gain the bonus from swift term way too quickly. This will also make the utility/sustain traits Brutality and Assassin's Annihilation more viable by being less outshined.

    -Cleansing channel -> 2 conditions removed
    *Reasoning: This is a slight buff to Revs sustain that would make the above nerfs hurt less for Revs that are solo queuing ranked. When Revs have an FB in an organized team, they can just fall back for cleanses/Resistance, however this does not exist in Solo Q very much.

    The TL;DR of it is that Herald damage mods were way overbuffed in the Herald rework a year ago or so, and it's really annoying to keep seeing all Core legends / traits / Renegade getting constantly nerfed due to an issue that is primarily due to how Herald can stack damage mods over +30%.

    I'm guessing that its just like with scourge where FB held it up and made it real strong combo.

    If thats the case we definitely should do these nerfs to FB.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

    Well mainly, it's Herald meta that is stacked. The rest of the class outside of Herald is either meme-tier or never stacked. The big reason it is played by organized teams is because Rev in general has poor sustain but excellent engage and burst damage thanks to being able to stack multiple damage mods. When supported by a FB to make up for the sustain/condi weakness issue it can end up feeling like the class has no downside in the hands of a team built around it. Alone without support, most people consider the class pretty balanced.

    A way to address the problem would thus be:
    -Forceful persistence. -> Reduced to 8% upkeep 2% Herald facets
    -Burst of strength -> Reduced to 10% damage buff on hit
    -Reinforced Potency -> Reduced to 0.75% damage per boon
    *Reasoning: Toning down Herald damage mods across the board addresses the issue that Herald gets too much free damage, and keeping it this way would mean the rest of the Rev class keeps getting nerfed around it.

    -Swift termination -> Reduced to 15% damage buff
    *Reasoning: This is the one nerf outside Herald that is mainly needed because of double stacking Revs. Two Revs bursting the same target will gain the bonus from swift term way too quickly. This will also make the utility/sustain traits Brutality and Assassin's Annihilation more viable by being less outshined.

    -Cleansing channel -> 2 conditions removed
    *Reasoning: This is a slight buff to Revs sustain that would make the above nerfs hurt less for Revs that are solo queuing ranked. When Revs have an FB in an organized team, they can just fall back for cleanses/Resistance, however this does not exist in Solo Q very much.

    The TL;DR of it is that Herald damage mods were way overbuffed in the Herald rework a year ago or so, and it's really annoying to keep seeing all Core legends / traits / Renegade getting constantly nerfed due to an issue that is primarily due to how Herald can stack damage mods over +30%.

    I'm guessing that its just like with scourge where FB held it up and made it real strong combo.

    If thats the case we definitely should do these nerfs to FB.

    This^
    Maybe nerfing fb instead of always destroying the builds that synergize well with it all while not touching fb might be a good change no? I don't play rev much and don't find much issues fighting them but I read a lot of post even by people who want it nerfed stating every build rev has but power shiro being meme or almost useless so maybe nerfing power shiro build which is the only viable build the whole class has isn't the best idea. I don't kno but if u guys do shave power rev down a bit maybe do it when u have some reasonable and significant changes for the rest of the rev class so u don't delete it completely.
    Just a thought.
    Also as I said the op thread sounds more like a fb issue than rev.

    Yep, doesnt even have to be buffs, dont know about rev but mesmer has alot of abilities, that arent used becouse their QoL sucks, or they are glichy.
    If not buffing numbers smooth out those "weakish" abilities so they get to be better.

    As for necros, RN core is really hard to take down due to weakness and big HP pool + shroud, but its fine and managable, then firebrand strolls in and gives the necro prot, that thats 50k HP + heals + weakness + protection, and thats just too much.
    I like the fact that after scourge nerfs alot of build diversity opened up, MB if we shoot the kneecaps of FB even more could be played.

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    just like fb is the best support and therefore pushes other supports out of the game, revenant is a better version of almost all other offensive builds. The builds that can compete with it are all going to be nerfed in the next patch (rightfully so). At the same time, revenant is so good at chasing down targets that weaker builds are sitting duck all game which makes facing (a) competent revenant(s) a very frustrating experience for most builds.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Erzian.5218 said:
    just like fb is the best support and therefore pushes other supports out of the game, revenant is a better version of almost all other offensive builds. The builds that can compete with it are all going to be nerfed in the next patch (rightfully so). At the same time, revenant is so good at chasing down targets that weaker builds are sitting duck all game which makes facing (a) competent revenant(s) a very frustrating experience for most builds.

    Rev better be better than most classes when considering how many other viable builds it has-0 and what other roles it can effectively take on-0. If the devs made the spec not so heavily dependent on +1 high bursts type playstyle similar to thief and gave the class love in other areas I say sure shave away at their burst damage potential.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:
    just like fb is the best support and therefore pushes other supports out of the game, revenant is a better version of almost all other offensive builds. The builds that can compete with it are all going to be nerfed in the next patch (rightfully so). At the same time, revenant is so good at chasing down targets that weaker builds are sitting duck all game which makes facing (a) competent revenant(s) a very frustrating experience for most builds.

    Rev better be better than most classes when considering how many other viable builds it has-0 and what other roles it can effectively take on-0. If the devs made the spec not so heavily dependent on +1 high bursts type playstyle similar to thief and gave the class love in other areas I say sure shave away at their burst damage potential.

    having no other choices is no excuse for a spec being broken, buff other specs, nerf the current one.
    Did developers even try ?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:
    just like fb is the best support and therefore pushes other supports out of the game, revenant is a better version of almost all other offensive builds. The builds that can compete with it are all going to be nerfed in the next patch (rightfully so). At the same time, revenant is so good at chasing down targets that weaker builds are sitting duck all game which makes facing (a) competent revenant(s) a very frustrating experience for most builds.

    Rev better be better than most classes when considering how many other viable builds it has-0 and what other roles it can effectively take on-0. If the devs made the spec not so heavily dependent on +1 high bursts type playstyle similar to thief and gave the class love in other areas I say sure shave away at their burst damage potential.

    having no other choices is no excuse for a spec being broken, buff other specs, nerf the current one.
    Did developers even try ?

    Since their damage shave a while back I don't really find them broken or op. Holo's,warrior specs, thieves,mesmers,weavers and fb give me far more issues the rev ever does but then again I'm always on the fighting them side as I don't really play them myself due to feeling clunky.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2019

    @Radagascar.6231 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly.

    What? This is a completely asinine statement. Did you ever consider that the best players flock to the best classes? (Because that is the case). Rev isn't just a 'fun class to play teehee so let's run MATs with it.' They run MATs with double Rev because IT IS THE BEST DPS CLASS. Really, the only true DPS class that is meta relevant.

    Also, way to kill a fringe meta side noder and leave weaver and monkeybrand untouched(LOL).

    ** I just can't believe this is who is making balance decisions** - someone that can make the assertion that the best players are playing Rev simply because it is a 'favored class', which is why (AS YOU ADMIT) it is constantly having strong showings in ATs, instead of recognizing the far more logical reason being that the best players are flocking to the best class. It cannot be overstated enough how abhorrently stupid your initial sentiment is.

    He dont have his own opinion or idea how to balance, he simply "talk to the best players" and so this is from where bias comes from. Rev and monkeybrand are fine cuz they are just "favored by the best players" :joy::joy::joy:

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bear.9568 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

    BUT..... you want to gut every other class that has the potential to kill FB's (warrior/thief/mes). Furthermore, lets allow symbol FB to run the support/dmg meta for an unsaid period of time.

    I had a positive outlook when you joined the balance team bro but this comment..... typical cookie cutter anet.

    You forgot scourge. Didn't scourge counter FB?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2019

    @Radagascar.6231 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly.

    What? This is a completely asinine statement. Did you ever consider that the best players flock to the best classes? (Because that is the case). Rev isn't just a 'fun class to play teehee so let's run MATs with it.' They run MATs with double Rev because IT IS THE BEST DPS CLASS. Really, the only true DPS class that is meta relevant.

    Also, way to kill a fringe meta side noder and leave weaver and monkeybrand untouched(LOL).

    I just can't believe this is who is making balance decisions - someone that can make the assertion that the best players are playing Rev simply because it is a 'favored class', which is why (AS YOU ADMIT) it is constantly having strong showings in ATs, instead of recognizing the far more logical reason being that the best players are flocking to the best class. It cannot be overstated enough how abhorrently stupid your initial sentiment is.

    >
    Rev isnt a easy class to start playing with and do well. Rev also doesn't have garbage carry mechanics like half the classes in this game which make bad players think their great. I think its more that a good rev is a good player is what his comment was probably implying. Rev is a strong class and if ur great on it it does very well but until u get decent on it u get farmed by most classes. Rev has a high skill floor and ceiling compared to a lot of other classes. Nerf it to the point good players can't do great on it and literally no one will chose the class just like in the past as no one will chose a class that's hard to play/learn if it's not strong as a pay off when learnt.
    Rev is literally one of the hardest classes to learn and I've spent alot of hrs messing around on every class but core engi.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2019

    To be honest, players are going to complain about any team comp that is favored regardless of how balanced the game is. Players will call for nerfs to a class, get them, and then continue to call for nerfs to whatever replaces it as the top spot. It’s never ending.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, players are going to complain about any team comp that is favored regardless of how balanced the game is. Players will call for nerfs to a class, get them, and then continue to call for nerfs to whatever replaces it as the top spot. It’s never ending.

    This^

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭

    There is one cure - remove class stacking and thats it.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019

    @Monkey See.1498 said:
    Maybe this is just me but I always thought one of the main points of game balance was to increase build diversity and representation to make the game more exciting to play and watch.

    It is not for me. I accept that we have many , may be to much, classes, and this is ok.
    But why they should be equal ? No way. Take some abstraction : ant bigger that cat ? No we love cats.

    We like combo meta, we like absolutely domination, we like this !

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, players are going to complain about any team comp that is favored regardless of how balanced the game is. Players will call for nerfs to a class, get them, and then continue to call for nerfs to whatever replaces it as the top spot. It’s never ending.

    The only time when this doesnt happen is when its their class on the chopping block. Then its "l2p","its fine because something else is broken/more broken","the class need this because reasons","its allowed to be OP because it was UP before" etc. Its the reason so many of the balance suggestions on here need to be taken with a lot of salt, regardless of the tenure, skill or stature of the player...everyone is inherently biased.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, players are going to complain about any team comp that is favored regardless of how balanced the game is. Players will call for nerfs to a class, get them, and then continue to call for nerfs to whatever replaces it as the top spot. It’s never ending.

    The only time when this doesnt happen is when its their class on the chopping block. Then its "l2p","its fine because something else is broken/more broken","the class need this because reasons","its allowed to be OP because it was UP before" etc. Its the reason so many of the balance suggestions on here need to be taken with a lot of salt, regardless of the tenure, skill or stature of the player...everyone is inherently biased.

    following that logic everything could be nerfed, and since dummies from silver are vast majority the yea... joy

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, players are going to complain about any team comp that is favored regardless of how balanced the game is. Players will call for nerfs to a class, get them, and then continue to call for nerfs to whatever replaces it as the top spot. It’s never ending.

    The only time when this doesnt happen is when its their class on the chopping block. Then its "l2p","its fine because something else is broken/more broken","the class need this because reasons","its allowed to be OP because it was UP before" etc. Its the reason so many of the balance suggestions on here need to be taken with a lot of salt, regardless of the tenure, skill or stature of the player...everyone is inherently biased.

    following that logic everything could be nerfed, and since dummies from silver are vast majority the yea... joy

    You missed the point of my post.

  • Bossun.2046Bossun.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ouk.5914 said:
    this probably wouldn't be an issue if we weren't allowed to Class Stack the same spec in the first place.

    Rev Alone and Fb aren't an issue at all....however when you run 2 of each then that becomes a major kitten problem. Remove the ability from people being able to stack 2+ of the same spec in games. This would probably push for a different meta and shows other spec getting played more in order to "counter" other specs.

    Imagine a monthly where people aren't stacking mesmer/fb/revs? Would probably be great because just one is fine but when you have 2 over performing specs in a game that's when it becomes stupid.

    THIS

    I dont see why this hasnt been done yet... smh

    sugoi monogatari oniichan

  • @Monkey See.1498 said:

    How is balance and diversity some how worse now after years of balancing than when PoF came out?

    Diversity? In GW2 ? XD

    GW2= Guardian Wars 2.