Whispers in the dark reactions? [spoilers] — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Whispers in the dark reactions? [spoilers]

Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 19, 2019 in Lore

Suitably creepy. Jormag's invitation seems like it would obviously backfire, unless there is some sort of twist. Rip Almorra

<1

Comments

  • Main story felt a bit short, but otherwise fun chapter.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Suitably creepy. Jormag's invitation seems like it would obviously backfire, unless there is some sort of twist. Rip Almorra

    Oh? Don't you invite all your guest by possessing corpse of the recently deceased? Otherwise this is a obvious trap and since we cant kill Jormag, it's has all the cards.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    Mostly a dreadful episode. Some good atmosphere, nothing wrong with the dialogue and the end cutscene was really interesting. Everything else was just a huge step backwards. A lack of map storytelling and low story content really hurt it. I've left more detailed feedback elsewhere on the forums, but yeah this was not good at all overall.

    All the promise is there. They have the right direction with the story, some really well thought out dialogue, good throwbacks to past events and the end really sets up some fantastic possibilities. But, there's just no substance to cling onto here apart from a bit of creepiness. I want big, sprawling Pof style maps, but with tundras, glaciers, mountains passes, open snowfields. Not some cramped paths, empty caves and a few forts smooshed together in a map not organically designed

    I really expected more from the Bone Skinner. Maybe stalked like in Resident Evil 3 throughout the story. I think the fight lasted less than 2 mins and that's with the full achievement first time...

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • I think it was a good episode except for the Boneskinner, when they revealed the Saga, they showed concept art for it, then, when we hit 100k on the Extra Life charity, they gave the name and date with the sub title of, "The Boneskinner is coming" or something like that, and THEN, in the actual trailer, they gave the Boneskinner it's own special cut-scene/time in the spotlight and a voice that might've belonged to it (though the voice was probably Jormag). So when I started the episode Iwas really excited on what this thing was the epic battle with it, but it's not even alluded too in the entire episode and just becomes an event/strike mission. Which I found incredibly disappointing, They hyped it up so much, and then it wasn't even an element in the episode, which was a huge let down.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I enjoyed it although it did feel increadibly short..

    New map is a little on the small side too although I expect it'll get expanded with the next patch.

    For me story is the main reason I keep playing so I was a bit disappointed by how quickly I got though it, even though I took my time, explored a lot and did most of the map completion as I was doing the story stuff.
    If I had just gone from mission to mission and rushed through it I could have probably done it all withing half an hour or less.. so glad I didn't.
    Considering how long we have to wait between patches that really would have bummed me out tbh

    I'm hoping this improves with future patches or tbh I really don't see what the difference is between living world and "sagas" aside from Saga's having less busy work than previous living worlds so their story content ends up feeling much shorter than what we're used to.

    But yeah, it was fun, story was short but good and the new map is pretty good but small.. just hope future releases are longer, if not then I at least hope that they come out a bit quicker..
    If that too is a nope then even though I enjoyed this release I'll still have to stay strong on my stance that what we really need right now is Gw2's 3rd large scale expansion.

  • I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    The interesting part to me is, Jormag is asleep. This is Jormag's "resting" mode, similar to in Gw1 speaking through Drakkar (who has been implied to been awake, just trapped under the ice, or... resting?).

    That creepy smile Jormag has Fraenir do though... lol

    Various interesting bits, like the implications of Jormag letting the Norn go, even letting Asgeir take a tooth to cause the Norn to follow him.

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    A lack of map storytelling

    You and I got different impressions on this part. I felt there was ample map storytelling. Granted, it's not in your face with subtle undertones like Grothmar Wardowns, but there is plenty of map storytelling if you look.

    I think my biggest issue is that this felt like a prologue far more than Bound by Blood did. And I'm disappointed they killed Almorra like they often do to nobody NPCs.

    I want big, sprawling Pof style maps, but with tundras, glaciers, mountains passes, open snowfields. Not some cramped paths, empty caves and a few forts smooshed together in a map not organically designed

    They shrunk the size of the LW teams to make a fourth one. After the loss of over 100 employees. And you want expansion sized maps. You want open fields, in a mountain range.

    I think you just have unreasonable expectations, tbh.

    I really expected more from the Bone Skinner. Maybe stalked like in Resident Evil 3 throughout the story. I think the fight lasted less than 2 mins and that's with the full achievement first time...

    It's also a strike mission boss, so the boneskinners are not done with. There's more than one Boneskinner, and several points of lore around them. And the one we fight in the open world does stalk before it shows up, in a similar manner to the Mossman fractal anomaly (pops in, attacks, disappears). Just too short of a chain. I'm not really disappointed it's not part of the main story, though it certainly was hyped up as if it were.

    @Scraggy.3814 said:
    I think it was a good episode except for the Boneskinner, when they revealed the Saga, they showed concept art for it, then, when we hit 100k on the Extra Life charity, they gave the name and date with the sub title of, "The Boneskinner is coming" or something like that, and THEN, in the actual trailer, they gave the Boneskinner it's own special cut-scene/time in the spotlight and a voice that might've belonged to it (though the voice was probably Jormag). So when I started the episode Iwas really excited on what this thing was the epic battle with it, but it's not even alluded too in the entire episode and just becomes an event/strike mission. Which I found incredibly disappointing, They hyped it up so much, and then it wasn't even an element in the episode, which was a huge let down.

    I can agree here. Would have probably been better as a second meta, imo.

    Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    Not really "beyond the horizon" though. I am gonna jump onto the "deep sea dragon" bandwagon people created based on that one shot in the trailer of the krait near shipwreckage.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Primordus could go anywhere as well.

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭

    Enjoyable but too short.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    It's also a strike mission boss, so the boneskinners are not done with. There's more than one Boneskinner, and several points of lore around them. And the one we fight in the open world does stalk before it shows up, in a similar manner to the Mossman fractal anomaly (pops in, attacks, disappears). Just too short of a chain. I'm not really disappointed it's not part of the main story, though it certainly was hyped up as if it were.

    We also literally make a new boneskinner in the one achievement.

    You can find two scouts who tell the tale of the boneskinner. The achievement with the Kodan is helping him give into the hunger. So yay, we actually made a kodan start transforming into that thing.

    It's also kinda implied one of his companions is the boneskinner we kill in the event, as I got the "What's happening?" book from defeating it (A kodan transforming into the boneskinner, talking about how good it felt to kill a vigil norn and their claws were growing longer as they got hungry). The Kodan we hand food to refers to having lost one of his fellows recently, who "Wanders the woods, as a dead thing."

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Suitably creepy.

    It was barely creepy at all. And every time it JUST STARTS to get a bit creepy, Anet dropped it.

    That aside, the story was too short. The prologue felt longer, even without the events farming part of it.
    At first I was shocked to only see one Waypoint, but with the map being so small, it makes sense
    I was positively surprised we were able to use mounts there, unlike the last mission of the prologue.
    That they killed Almorra so cheaply didn't sit well with me.

  • I guess the next map will be Drakkar Lake?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I guess the next map will be Drakkar Lake?

    The next map is the rest of this one. The encompassing of Drakkar's lake seems like a logical conclusion (altough I haven't compared gw1/gw2 map to see where we are)

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I guess the next map will be Drakkar Lake?

    The next map is the rest of this one. The encompassing of Drakkar's lake seems like a logical conclusion (altough I haven't compared gw1/gw2 map to see where we are)

    Drakkar will be the world boss, so I guess it should be the lake.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I guess the next map will be Drakkar Lake?

    The next map is the rest of this one. The encompassing of Drakkar's lake seems like a logical conclusion (altough I haven't compared gw1/gw2 map to see where we are)

    Drakkar will be the world boss, so I guess it should be the lake.

    But we already have the walking Icebrood construct world boss in this map.
    I think it would make more sense to complete this map in Episode 2 and release Drakkar with a new map in Episode 3.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I guess the next map will be Drakkar Lake?

    The next map is the rest of this one. The encompassing of Drakkar's lake seems like a logical conclusion (altough I haven't compared gw1/gw2 map to see where we are)

    Drakkar will be the world boss, so I guess it should be the lake.

    But we already have the walking Icebrood construct world boss in this map.
    I think it would make more sense to complete this map in Episode 2 and release Drakkar with a new map in Episode 3.

    If memory serves Drakkar will be a part of ep2, just not at launch.

    I think Drakkar is meant to be a proper World Boss ala Tequatl, Gerent etc but could well be upped to Triple Trouble difficulty given Drakkars status

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    I liked the story overall. It was a bit shorter but I think it had greater quality than some previous episodes. Atmosphere was great and gave me chills on few ocassions.

    I think all characters were well implemented, and I think they did a good job presenting how our character looses sanity and standards (at least for human male pc it was well presented).
    Final exchange between Braham and PC was also good. Braham asked the same question that I thought to myself. And commanders response was exactly how i felt about the situation

    My question is, what is spirit essence? How does it differ from "normal" magic and why does Jormag have it? Or do you folks feel it was implemented for purely gameplay reasons and has no broader lore to it.

    Overall 9/10 for me. Only thing i didnt like is that screen can sometimes get way too blurry due to blizzard effect. And honestly essence manipulation feels like completely unnecessary feature

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

    I think you're looking too much into it, or expect a twist in the story where there is not meant to be one - I'm sure the whisperer is Jormag. It's just saying it will talk to us "directly" via the svanir, face to face, instead of whispers and agents.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The essence system felt like something that only looked good on a designer paper. Completely and utterly worthless in practice. Mobs gets zerged down so fast that it never matters at all. Pretty much the only use is to unlock glowing chests.

  • The story was Meh... too much annoying factors and too much guessing to really enjoy the story line.
    Death of such a great hero felt as something put in later. Short, emotion-less, in a cave, 2 minute time. Such a shame.

    The new map is... well horrible. Designed to keep you slowed down and in combat forever, while map completion... did 3 toons already and the 3rd took me 12 minutes.

    • New mastery does not give ANY noticable difference when stacked.
    • Sheer amount of Condition Damage, specially stuns and a slow-downs are so many that no amount of cleansing can deal with that. I walk instead of run 99% of the time during the events. Bad design.
    • The constant reminders when you have something not trained yet is annoying, I am not a level 2 that dodges for the first freakin time.
    • Design of Raven Locks are deliberately put in place to get you in combat. You HAVE to dismount, click the unlock, 2 or more veterans appear, sometimes elites, with a respand rate of what... half a second?!?! Seriousy?!?!
    • Storm ice effect on the interface is... PURE AND UTTERLY DISCRIMINATION of Arenanet towards ANY visually impaired player. BY DESIGN! ON PURPOSE!

    Yes Arenanet, IT IS! Do NOT deny it, if you even considered Visually impaired players for HALF A SECOND, you would have TRASHED that design IMMEDIATLY

    Simply put: Another map to NOT to return to once done. There is ZERO reason for me to do so.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

    is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where Saga the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

    Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

    Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

    Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

    It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

  • @Kalavier.1097 said:
    The interesting part to me is, Jormag is asleep. This is Jormag's "resting" mode, similar to in Gw1 speaking through Drakkar (who has been implied to been awake, just trapped under the ice, or... resting?).

    That creepy smile Jormag has Fraenir do though... lol

    Various interesting bits, like the implications of Jormag letting the Norn go, even letting Asgeir take a tooth to cause the Norn to follow him.

    It it asleep? It seems conscious and this behavior went on before Mordremoth relinquished the mind domain.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    The interesting part to me is, Jormag is asleep. This is Jormag's "resting" mode, similar to in Gw1 speaking through Drakkar (who has been implied to been awake, just trapped under the ice, or... resting?).

    That creepy smile Jormag has Fraenir do though... lol

    Various interesting bits, like the implications of Jormag letting the Norn go, even letting Asgeir take a tooth to cause the Norn to follow him.

    It it asleep? It seems conscious and this behavior went on before Mordremoth relinquished the mind domain.

    Jormag spoke to Svanir through Drakkar, while "sleeping" in Gw1. Braham and guild watched Jormag sink underneath a Glacier when Primordus was sent back to sleeping/dormant mode, and was described as being unable to be reached or attacked.

    Jormag mentions "The air is thick with change. I feel it, even as I dream beneath the ice." Indicating that the current status of the Elder dragon is, dormant/asleep, underneath the glacier still.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More note:

    The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

    This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Whispers in the dark reactions?

    I enjoyed what little I could play of it due to the extreme lag spikes on the map. (3365 ping seems to be the current record for me.) Crippling Self-Doubt seems like a weird domain of magic but an interesting idea...

    I wish I knew I had a signature so I could be upset about not seeing it.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

    Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

    It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

    I may be mistaken- I glossed past the mastery- but doesn't the NPC who explains it all say something to the effect of all three varieties being Jormag's minions?

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

    Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

    It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

    I may be mistaken- I glossed past the mastery- but doesn't the NPC who explains it all say something to the effect of all three varieties being Jormag's minions?

    I think it's that they are tapping into corrupted versions of the Essences that the spirits of the wild represent, and that we are turning it back into the normal form and using it against them. He does directly mention something about "The Norn never have truly tapped the potential of the essences they've had all along!"

    I think they are all related to Jormag's touch, but in difference ways? It just seems to me that if the goal was to talk directly to Jormag (in some way), it'd be more fitting to take her to an ice cave, or inside the Sanctum at least? Aberrant seem to be partly dark and evil magic native to the area, partly Svanir necromancer rituals.

    Which reminds me of two interesting things. I noticed there are a lot of little shrines around the area of Bjora marches, some featuring bear carvings (or bear cubs, unless that's meant to be another animal), but a lot of Ox ones too.

    Also, I loved the interaction of the Vigil necromancer to the Svanir necromancer's ritual. It fits the trend and history of necromancers. When one goes truly evil, other necromancers get mad and seek to put them down.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I guess the next map will be Drakkar Lake?

    The next map is the rest of this one. The encompassing of Drakkar's lake seems like a logical conclusion (altough I haven't compared gw1/gw2 map to see where we are)

    Drakkar will be the world boss, so I guess it should be the lake.

    But we already have the walking Icebrood construct world boss in this map.
    I think it would make more sense to complete this map in Episode 2 and release Drakkar with a new map in Episode 3.

    They already confirmed Drakkar is in Episode 2 since the PAX stream. They also confirmed that Episode 2 will expand the Episode 1 map since that time, and reaffirmed several times since. That_shaman also pulled out the actual size of Bjora Marches from the dat and posted it - the map extends west at roughly the same height, reaching the water.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

    is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where Saga the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

    Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

    After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

    Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

    It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

    I may be mistaken- I glossed past the mastery- but doesn't the NPC who explains it all say something to the effect of all three varieties being Jormag's minions?

    He does mention that it's essences from "Jormag's minions" but he could be unreliable narrator at that point. However, the hidden achievement for using a boneskinner tonic from inventory does say the boneskinner serves Jormag. It and another achievement description (also hidden I think) are the only indications of the boneskinner serving Jormag though, and it doesn't really fit with the rest of Jormag's corruption - the aberrants we can see being created by a Sons of Svanir necromancer though, who's pulling fractions from souls out of victims to form the nightmare aberrants.

    I've not seen any lore regarding the Fallen yet though.

    All three armies attack during the meta, however, implying again that all three armies are in some manner serving Jormag.

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    Which reminds me of two interesting things. I noticed there are a lot of little shrines around the area of Bjora marches, some featuring bear carvings (or bear cubs, unless that's meant to be another animal), but a lot of Ox ones too.

    Pretty sure those are Wolverine shrines. There's one in the Aberrant Forest, on top of a small cliff above where a no-nameplay/interaction male vigil norn is muttering over a pile of corpses with dagger in hand.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    More note:

    The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

    This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

    I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

    is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where Saga the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

    Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

    After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

    ... What? The Gods are not evil.

  • Though short, I actually found the atmosphere and the story really interesting. I've always been a person who enjoys dark, creepy themes like this, though I wouldn't give this episode a full 10/10 (maybe a generous 6.5/10?) , but still, nice visuals and feels.

    I really liked that Jormag was talking to us throughout the entire story and anytime you're on the open map. It just adds to the creepiness level. I don't know if it's the whispers that are getting to me, but I actually ended up thinking that Jormag was prettying convincing in the last instance. I feel like we should at least hear him out, but I feel like that's the first step to losing our bearings and joining his side. Though honestly, Jormag's offer was pretty clear, I almost wanted to believe him. Maybe a part of me already does (I imagine this is how the PC feels too).

    I was wondering this, but I don't know if I believe that the voice talking to us is Jormag. Back in HoTs, as a sylvari, whenever Modremoth spoke, it was a clear 'Voice of Modremoth' in the text chat, but here it is labeled as 'unknown'. If we're so certain that voice is Jormag, then why hasn't that changed? I don't really know how deep this deception goes, but what if we're talking to something pretending to be Jormag? What about Raven? How did his magic get 'stolen' by Svanir? Is he already corrupted and part of this deception?

    Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess, but the Commander (player) is to Aurene to what Drakkar is to Jormag right? Wouldn't she be interested if Jormag (or whoever it is) is attempting to hijack her champion? She may not realize yet (too early, maybe), but judging by the Commander's reaction to the last instance offer (the delayed "...Right."), I can only imagine the whispering hijinks will only continue. Though, it might not be a good idea for another Elder Dragon to wage war against another...but then again, Jormag did offer an alliance of some kind?

    While this episode remains a lot to be desired, I hope the next episode would at least be just as dark, foreboding and creepy as this episode (though maybe a wee bit longer).

    Who needs the light? Fear not this night.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    More note:

    The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

    This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

    I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

    is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where Saga the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

    Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

    After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

    ... What? The Gods are not evil.

    How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AzuraJae.9246 said:
    Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess,

    I predicted that would happen, because Irene has a big Dragon ball Z effect, with all the power she has now, she will become a big elephant in the room if she comes into history.

    But, she could appear if a big cataclismic event will occur and the "heroes" will need a god-level power to help.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @AzuraJae.9246 said:
    I was wondering this, but I don't know if I believe that the voice talking to us is Jormag. Back in HoTs, as a sylvari, whenever Modremoth spoke, it was a clear 'Voice of Modremoth' in the text chat, but here it is labeled as 'unknown'.

    In WoW, you also have the whispers of Yogg-Saron while you are in the crazed dwarves' excavation in Howling Fjord.
    The chat there doesn't confirm that whisper to be from Yogg-Saron either.

    Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess, but the Commander (player) is to Aurene to what Drakkar is to Jormag right? Wouldn't she be interested if Jormag (or whoever it is) is attempting to hijack her champion?

    I don't think the commander is not Aurene's champion, as she neither a minion of Aurene, nor has she been 'corrupted' by Aurene.
    But Caithe has been 'corrupted' by her, so Caithe might be her champion.

    While this episode remains a lot to be desired, I hope the next episode would at least be just as dark, foreboding and creepy as this episode (though maybe a wee bit longer).

    It wasn't creepy at all.
    Arenanet always stopped it, as soon as the mood was starting to set in some almost-creepy vibes.

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    More note:

    The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

    This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

    I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

    is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where Saga the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

    Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

    After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

    ... What? The Gods are not evil.

    How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

    You're going to be massively disappointed, because we know the Gods are not evil by their actions, and indeed their inaction as well. We haven't seen them through the fanatical view of humans, we literally talked to one in Path of Fire, and had opinions given from those who are not fanatical or even human. And there's evidence of their activities throughout GW1.

    The Gods are the "Burning Legion" of Guild Wars, that's a new one, I'm honestly staggered as to how you could draw that conclusion given all we know. There are 0 similarities.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:
    In WoW, you also have the whispers of Yogg-Saron while you are in the crazed dwarves' excavation in Howling Fjord.
    The chat there doesn't confirm that whisper to be from Yogg-Saron either.

    Oh, that's cool. I don't play WoW so I didn't know; maybe this is the case . In the context of GW2 though, I still think that it's pretty interesting that they chose to keep the 'unknown' as the owner of the voice instead of just changing it to Jormag. The characters seem pretty convinced that it's Jormag, but the chat text still hasn't changed. I saw some theories that the voice actually belongs to Drakkar, since he fits the description of being under the ice too

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I don't think the commander is not Aurene's champion, as she neither a minion of Aurene, nor has she been 'corrupted' by Aurene.
    But Caithe has been 'corrupted' by her, so Caithe might be her champion.

    Maybe I misinterpreted it, but the Commander is definitely referred to as 'Aurene's Champion' and the Masteries in LWS4 imply that 'the Crystal Champion' is the Commander (info found on the wiki). I had thought because of the unique circumstances of how Aurene was born, she doesn't have minions and that the people of Tyria were her 'minions', with the Commander in particular standing in as her Champion. The prologue even refers to the Commander as a representative of Aurene.

    Even if this is not the case, the Commander is still pretty special to Aurene. She cared enough for the Commander that she flew from Auric Basin to Elona to try save them from Balthazar. In short story Requiem: Rytlock, he akins Aurene to being like the Commander's daughter (and I'm sure the sentiment is the same from Aurene's side). I think she should be a bit worried if her 'parent' was getting manipulated by another Elder Dragon.

    And even if she doesn't care about the Commander anymore, since the Commander is still Aurene's representative in the world of Tyria, wouldn't she also be worried if the Commander is potentially making alliances and deals with another Elder Dragon (dialogue from the last instance of the episode)? I think she still has the same love for the people as Glint did before her, so even if the Commander isn't important, wouldn't she be worried if Jormag's going to ice a big portion of the people she swore to protect?

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    It wasn't creepy at all.
    Arenanet always stopped it, as soon as the mood was starting to set in some almost-creepy vibes.

    I'm sorry, I should have clarified that this was my personal opinion and not a fact. I personally thought that the episode was quite creepy, but something being 'creepy' is entirely subjective and depends from person to person, so I can understand if you didn't find it creepy. I've always been jumpy and easily spooked by things (or in more simpler terms, I'm a scaredy-cat), so I thought it was creepy.

    Who needs the light? Fear not this night.

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

    Other races have interacted with the Six Gods. Overall the Six range from neutral to good. Only Dhuum - and after their falls from grace, Abaddon and Balthazar - were evil. Grenth is True Neutral, while Lyssa is Chaotic Neutral, Melandru is Neutral Good, Dwayna is Lawful Good, and Kormir is either Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral. Though depending on if you adhere to certain theories, Lyssa and Kormir could be just pretending to be the prior, and are Chaotic/Neutral Evil.

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  • @AzuraJae.9246 said:
    Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess, but the Commander (player) is to Aurene to what Drakkar is to Jormag right?

    This is up in the air. Some interpretations is that the Commander is a dragon champion because of the shared magical bond, but lack the physical alterations of dragon minions. But others believe the term champion is being used in the traditional "representative of another being in combat or legal matters" sense.

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  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    More note:

    The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

    This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

    I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

    It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

    is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where Saga the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

    Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

    After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

    ... What? The Gods are not evil.

    How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

    The sacking of Stormwind loses a lot of it's evil when when you're not gutting civilians in the street and instead destroying genocidal and slaving Charr settlements. Not to say the humans have never wronged a native Tyrian, but a lot of the locals were pretty abhorrent and the ones who weren't often wound up siding with humanity and the gods. Hell, we likely wouldn't have Aurene were it not for the Forgottens pact with them, which would of absolutely resulted in our death.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I, for one, fear this night.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    The interesting part to me is, Jormag is asleep. This is Jormag's "resting" mode, similar to in Gw1 speaking through Drakkar (who has been implied to been awake, just trapped under the ice, or... resting?).

    That creepy smile Jormag has Fraenir do though... lol

    Various interesting bits, like the implications of Jormag letting the Norn go, even letting Asgeir take a tooth to cause the Norn to follow him.

    It it asleep? It seems conscious and this behavior went on before Mordremoth relinquished the mind domain.

    Jormag spoke to Svanir through Drakkar, while "sleeping" in Gw1. Braham and guild watched Jormag sink underneath a Glacier when Primordus was sent back to sleeping/dormant mode, and was described as being unable to be reached or attacked.

    Jormag mentions "The air is thick with change. I feel it, even as I dream beneath the ice." Indicating that the current status of the Elder dragon is, dormant/asleep, underneath the glacier still.

    Are all EDs capable of, let's call it dream walking? Or is this something intrinsic to Mind and Persuasion? Like how is Jormag doing this while asleep?

    There seems to be some indirect pathway between the spirit and the brain that Jormag can exploit to do mind control stuff. But I don't see how that would help them exert their will as they sleep.

  • @Westenev.5289 said:
    I, for one, fear this night.

    I would love repise of the dark version of Fear Not This Night, but sung by Jormag.

    Who needs the light? Fear not this night.

  • @AzuraJae.9246 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    I, for one, fear this night.

    I would love repise of the dark version of Fear Not This Night, but sung by Jormag.

    Omg that would be amazing

  • @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    Jormag spoke to Svanir through Drakkar, while "sleeping" in Gw1. Braham and guild watched Jormag sink underneath a Glacier when Primordus was sent back to sleeping/dormant mode, and was described as being unable to be reached or attacked.

    Jormag mentions "The air is thick with change. I feel it, even as I dream beneath the ice." Indicating that the current status of the Elder dragon is, dormant/asleep, underneath the glacier still.

    Are all EDs capable of, let's call it dream walking? Or is this something intrinsic to Mind and Persuasion? Like how is Jormag doing this while asleep?

    There seems to be some indirect pathway between the spirit and the brain that Jormag can exploit to do mind control stuff. But I don't see how that would help them exert their will as they sleep.

    I believe Glint does mention that she hears Kralkatorrik beginning to stir, well before he does, in EoD. It might be that they are all conscious before being able to move, but only those with Mind and Persuasion can expand that consciousness beyond their minions.

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    All these squares make a circle.

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