How about some balance maybe?

There are so many ridiculously OP builds right now it is comical.Clearly Coalescence of Ruin/Phase Smash is far too OP of a combo that has way too much damage for almost no risk.Clearly Pet Builds can easily ruin every trapper build, again with no risk and a ridiculous amount of ease. There should be legitimate penalties for having a pet die aside from "Oh Ill just instant spawn another pet".Let's see what you think is an OP build with almost no skill or risk required and try not to devolve into a pure trolling fest.

Cele shout reaper. You don't even have to aim at anything, just walk near people and spam utilities.

PvP, WvW, and PVE should all have split balance

WvW really doesn't have its own balance in fact things like Perma Stealth rogue which were balanced in PvP since they couldn't play the pvp objective were completely broken n WvW. Though they were only balance after one solo'd a raid boss and nothing to do with WvW.

Balance in WvW is indeed broken but that's only because WvW doesn't have its own branch for balance

If its even possible to balance WvW at all that is considering a build acts completely different when you either roaming or in the heart of a zerg

@MokoToko.6890 said:Cele shout reaper. You don't even have to aim at anything, just walk near people and spam utilities.

I don´t get how a cele-shout-reaper can be strong.Shouts give just utility together with minor damage and heal.

@HARDOFREADING.7298 said:There are so many ridiculously OP builds right now it is comical.Clearly Coalescence of Ruin/Phase Smash is far too OP of a combo that has way too much damage for almost no risk.Clearly Pet Builds can easily ruin every trapper build, again with no risk and a ridiculous amount of ease. There should be legitimate penalties for having a pet die aside from "Oh Ill just instant spawn another pet".Let's see what you think is an OP build with almost no skill or risk required and try not to devolve into a pure trolling fest.

That happens cause classes are designed for pve aoe and spam only, some classes ended with damage and surviability at same time due hwo Dev's feel the class should perform in pve.

This is not a game ment to be balanced on pvp side, its all about gimmicks and keys pressed in -> this order, if fail try to dodge target burst and bail out, ence and repeat combo.This "unbalance" based on gimmicks is intentional cause it shortens de gap between bad and decent players

Pets sure are one of biggest problems. :)

@Arzurag.7506 said:I don´t get how a cele-shout-reaper can be strong.

Wow you're incredibly far behind in the meta, Deathly chill with Reaper runes makes each shout stack 3 bleeds in AoE, pair that with geomancy and hydromancy on weapons and you can solo stack 30-40 bleeds in an AoE with the right combo.

@HARDOFREADING.7298 said:There are so many ridiculously OP builds right now it is comical.Clearly Coalescence of Ruin/Phase Smash is far too OP of a combo that has way too much damage for almost no risk.

Revenant Hammer damage got nerfed alot. With the recent builds my Revenant only does 4k crits max. since most WvW builds have decent defense. Your post is like 2 years late.And yes, theres a counter to everything, even trap-builds.

@Junkpile.7439 said:Pets sure are one of biggest problems. :)

I'd bring my ranger into WvW except all the backpack slots are full.

lmao what are you running where you're only getting 4k crits on Rev? That's ridiculously low, I've been crit on by Coales for easily 12-14k

@HARDOFREADING.7298 said:There are so many ridiculously OP builds right now it is comical.Clearly Coalescence of Ruin/Phase Smash is far too OP of a combo that has way too much damage for almost no risk.Clearly Pet Builds can easily ruin every trapper build, again with no risk and a ridiculous amount of ease. There should be legitimate penalties for having a pet die aside from "Oh Ill just instant spawn another pet".Let's see what you think is an OP build with almost no skill or risk required and try not to devolve into a pure trolling fest.

I believe you may benefit from reading this

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/317/how-to-give-good-feedback#latest

It's a post on how to give good feedback.

The two parts of skill balance that need fixing in WvW is:

Each profession needs to be able to contribute in a large scale combat encounter. Unfortunately there seems to be a WvW meta that usually excludes 2-3 classes. How many core builds are used?

The other thing that needs balancing is that there are some skills, combined with traits/armor/runes/trinkets that allow for outlier builds only because they are not heavily used in sPvP and PvE. When the WvW community gives a name to these builds it's a sign that they should be looked at.

@MokoToko.6890 said:lmao what are you running where you're only getting 4k crits on Rev? That's ridiculously low, I've been crit on by Coales for easily 12-14k

When playing against a half decent blob, you mostly hit melee, so enemies with some armor. Also, when using a decent melee build, not glasscannon, the crits go at 8k max on melee, but 4-5k on average. Depends on the enemy. I dont count hitting scrub groups with zero armor.

@Swamurabi.7890 said:The two parts of skill balance that need fixing in WvW is:

Each profession needs to be able to contribute in a large scale combat encounter. Unfortunately there seems to be a WvW meta that usually excludes 2-3 classes. How many core builds are used?

The other thing that needs balancing is that there are some skills, combined with traits/armor/runes/trinkets that allow for outlier builds only because they are not heavily used in sPvP and PvE. When the WvW community gives a name to these builds it's a sign that they should be looked at.

I've noticed that too about 2-3 classes being the only ones people want and almost always its (Ele, Guardian, and (Reaper or Rev depending on fights they look for)). I hate when say I want to play as a thief, engineer, ranger or even a warrior and people saying they want x, y, z classes in the squad than any of those. And even put those classes in a squad party without stability or even without any sort of heals or sustain... That's so ridiculous and then complain when they fail to keep up with the zerg. Hence, why you see a lot of those classes run tankier builds but then what's the point when you really want to play with others and be apart of the larger group and be helpful.

I'm hoping that the upcoming patch makes it where the lesser used classes in squads/zerg groups will have a chance to play with others as a valued member of the group. Yes, a pipe dream probably, but hay if they could do that and make traits/armor/runes/trinkets work like they do in say sPvP instead of how they work in PvE, then builds can again start to have variety.

A POSSIBLE SOLUTION: Here is an example, say my engi is in full Ascended with all items Ascended. I want to try a new build, either I have to destroy a lot of infusions (or buy that ridiculously overpriced extractor) or get exotics to try out a new build in WvW. This then is a was of effort because once you wear a soulbound item you kinda lose the value of it and can't make any money off it if the build turns out to be a bust. But if you were to make the build system like sPvP is, then changing up amulets, sigils, runes, and traits; then, you have a new build and players would be more likely to experiment more so than they currently do. And then you could at least in some sense, make WvW a little more balanced. Although, population imbalance would always be a major problem to any form of balancing builds in WvW.

@KayCee.4653 said:

@Swamurabi.7890 said:The two parts of skill balance that need fixing in WvW is:

Each profession needs to be able to contribute in a large scale combat encounter. Unfortunately there seems to be a WvW meta that usually excludes 2-3 classes. How many core builds are used?

The other thing that needs balancing is that there are some skills, combined with traits/armor/runes/trinkets that allow for outlier builds only because they are not heavily used in sPvP and PvE. When the WvW community gives a name to these builds it's a sign that they should be looked at.

Legendary armor will allow you to do that. Many of us do not want to be pigeonholed into cookie cutter amulet builds.

Build diversity is what makes WvW the most flexible mode. And yes... in a one v one situation, unbalanced.

Each class has a place in WvW. It's just that place isn't always in the Zerg meta.

That has ALWAYS existed in this game in EVERY one of the game modes. PvP, PvE AND WvW.

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:

Each class has a place in WvW. It's just that place isn't always in the Zerg meta.

That has ALWAYS existed in this game in EVERY one of the game modes. PvP, PvE AND WvW.

Except that the game mode has always been touted as one that is about large scale battles. You're also pigeonholing a third of the game to solo content in an MMO which is several types of counterproductive.

Viability of "non-zerg" classes is also irrelevant since thief is still the optimal roaming class. It can travel faster than the other two med classes, can clear camps just as fast if not faster, and is the easiest class to avoid fighting an unwinnable fight on.

@Substance E.4852 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:

Each class has a place in WvW. It's just that place isn't always in the Zerg meta.

That has ALWAYS existed in this game in EVERY one of the game modes. PvP, PvE AND WvW.

Really good points and genrally I agree with you. Though Druid can be strong roaming. And there are a LOT of bad thieves out there that are fodder...

Surfing the edges of a Zerg with theif, Druid, engi, can be quite satisfying.

It would be good if the PoF changes diversified things more.

@Substance E.4852 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:

Each class has a place in WvW. It's just that place isn't always in the Zerg meta.

That has ALWAYS existed in this game in EVERY one of the game modes. PvP, PvE AND WvW.

Touted as being about large scale combat by whom? Not by Anet, but certainly by people who prefer that style of play. Here's the wiki description...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

And here's a snippet from the sales pitch on the website

Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of warlike trebuchets and siege golems.

Large scale combat is undoubtedly part of wvw, and wvw is the only place where if=t can happen. But that doesn't make it the point of wvw, nor does it diminish the other things that have always been done there.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

It would be good if the PoF changes diversified things more.

Oh ho ho, it definitely will. Spellbreaker (Warrior), Scourge (Necro), and Holosmith (Engineer) is expected to shake things up quite a bit. From other speculation I've seen, people seem to think Mirage (Mesmer), Weaver (Elementalist), Soulbeast (Ranger), Renegade (Revenant), and Firebrand (Guardian) will have less of an impact in WvW, but that's pure speculation and who knows what creativity and build-combos we will see after PoF is released.

Wvw only split would be nice to see but it seems like it would be too much to have it comply balanced. Maybe a pvp / pve split is better where you have spvp and wvw balanced combined mostly spvp aimed and you have pve mostly raid aimed in its owned set up. There are simply some effects that do not work in raids and do not fit the balancing of raids in being so messes it up for wvw. Look at things like unblockable and croupstion to a lesser point boon strip and condi clears too all do next to nothing in raids but are every thing in wvw.

It comes down to this wvw / spvp get more use out of skill divisively and effects raids / pve do not and the balancing for these game types need to reflect this.

Spellbreaker and Scourge are for sure going to put pressure in a lot of places where before there was none or minimal. Holosmith is going to bring some big damage as they have big cleaving skills with heavy damage (lots of 5 target cleave for really big damage, in place launch and extreme mobility).

Can't wait for the chaos!

@Choppy.4183 said:Large scale combat is undoubtedly part of wvw, and wvw is the only place where if=t can happen. But that doesn't make it the point of wvw, nor does it diminish the other things that have always been done there.

For the purposes of winning a match-up, which is clearly a primary goal as demonstrated by their constant reworks of the scoring system, large scale fights are the central premise. Hell, the meme of "coverage is everything" exists for a reason.

Roaming around and killing people in the bloodlust ruins or killing a yak or scout is largely irrelevant and the auto scout feature for towers can make ganking them with a small crowd virtually impossible if a large force is on the map to respond to a group of red dots farting around a tower with white swords on it.

More to the point though, if I wanted to do small scale fighting, I would just load into the PvP lobby and not deal with overtuned PvE builds and food buffs.

@HARDOFREADING.7298 said:There are so many ridiculously OP builds right now it is comical.

Erm, that has always been the case, WvW has always been a joke in terms of balance (and frankly pretty much everything else).

Consider large scale and a 50 man zerg/squad, the game has 9 classes, yet for pretty much the entirety of the game 40% of those 50 spaces have been taken up by guardian, which is ridiculous, most broken OP class in the game for large scale, and it is laughable in 5 years that has not changed, which should tell you all you need to know about how much balance consideration is given to the joke that is WvW, just one of the reasons the game mode has died off. (even after being the desperate attempt to prop it up with PvE players being bribed with shiny things).

well that worked pretty good as PvE players brought the condi cancer into wvw just recently although it was possbile to play that way since nearly 2 years before that :-p actually the balancing in wvw was pretty decent pre the rework of how condi stackin roaming there were mainly condi mesmer and burst thiefs which were too strongbut zerg fights were ok in my opiniontoday its just too much dmg from most hot elite specsthe increase in outgoing dmg which was nessassary for PvE hurt WvW really badI am really worried about how much worse it will get with PoF :-(

I feel like any sort of real balance, will come sometime after PoF drops, since to me it would make sense for PoF to be out for a few weeks before the balance team even considers looking at what needs to be changed, and what doesn't. Since, if they balanced things now, they would just need to do it again in around 8 or so days, so it makes sense to just wait to see how the new elite specs perform before balancing it all.