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Why Balance Patches are Going to LOOK Bad

Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 20, 2019 in Professions

Why Balance Patches are Going to Look Unbalanced

It's November 2019. Nearly every class can do pseudo one=shots. That's balanced right? Everybody can do it. BUT... Lots of people are complaining about how this one-shotting is not much fun.

SO Arenenet have stated that they recognise the players' concerns and that upcoming balance patches are going to reduce damage across the board.

In this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90773/lets-talk-about-pvp-balance

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:
We have identified the overall power of the game has become an issue and we wish to address this in the competitive game modes.

BUT the classes are not equally overpowered.

i.e. they are overpowered to different degrees.

So when they turn the big knob down to reduce damage, some classes are going to become much weaker than others.

This is normal.

Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
Hashtag BlameMcLain

Comments

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    So when they turn the big knob down to reduce damage, some classes are going to become much weaker than others.

    That is assuming that they do a linear dmg nerf and not account for the differences of each class.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    Well game Is built arround damage overperformance gameplay, players need to find/discover effective builds to reduce their effort and bring more results.

    Actually I believe the nerf damage will be a placebo effect, cause it makes no sense on reducing power creep while want to re-use fall damage traits to be a plus one Rez mechanic.
    That only makes sense if kill happens fast.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    making those changes a thing doesnt mean to make those classes "Underpowered". Its just making them a bit less overpowered

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    So, continuous dumb-down to gameplay over time is good for everyone? No wonder i find GW2 is getting more and more fun. ANet, please continue to dumb down all the professions. Well done!

  • @Mil.3562 said:
    So, continuous dumb-down to gameplay over time is good for everyone? No wonder i find GW2 is getting more and more fun. ANet, please continue to dumb down all the professions. Well done!

    cuz combat lasting longer = dumbing down?

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    You can do enough DPS on any class to down someone with max Vitality in seconds, its been too much for too long. Even the currently accepted minimal DPS of 10k in PvE is extremely dangerous in PvP/WvW situations, and that should tell you something.

    And no, measures like amulets and game splitting, etc. don't really reduce it much.

    (That said, I would argue its more a problem of not enough health than too much damage, but this is ArenaNet, so..)

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW) | ♀♥♀

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You can do enough DPS on any class to down someone with max Vitality in seconds, its been too much for too long. Even the currently accepted minimal DPS of 10k in PvE is extremely dangerous in PvP/WvW situations, and that should tell you something.

    And no, measures like amulets and game splitting, etc. don't really reduce it much.

    (That said, I would argue its more a problem of not enough health than too much damage, but this is ArenaNet, so..)

    Yes. While damage has gone up, health has remained at 2012 levels.

    Aaaand.... let's do some mathematics:
    Most people have 10-30k HPs.
    At 10k DPS, players live for 1-3 seconds.

    There, that wasn't difficult, was it?

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You can do enough DPS on any class to down someone with max Vitality in seconds, its been too much for too long. Even the currently accepted minimal DPS of 10k in PvE is extremely dangerous in PvP/WvW situations, and that should tell you something.

    And no, measures like amulets and game splitting, etc. don't really reduce it much.

    (That said, I would argue its more a problem of not enough health than too much damage, but this is ArenaNet, so..)

    Yes. While damage has gone up, health has remained at 2012 levels.

    Aaaand.... let's do some mathematics:
    Most people have 10-30k HPs.
    At 10k DPS, players live for 1-3 seconds.

    There, that wasn't difficult, was it?

    You aren't really doing 10k DPS in WvW though. Players move, stun you, you build for survivability, you don't have max might, quickness, alacrity, etc.

    Yeah, is possible with AoEs and buffs to hit or break that, but unless you are getting one shot, you only die in 3 seconds if you do absolutely nothing about it, and it's a glass build hitting you.

    In theory, my thief can kill almost any build in about 4-6 button presses. In reality, that never happens because I don't fight AFK people.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You can do enough DPS on any class to down someone with max Vitality in seconds, its been too much for too long. Even the currently accepted minimal DPS of 10k in PvE is extremely dangerous in PvP/WvW situations, and that should tell you something.

    And no, measures like amulets and game splitting, etc. don't really reduce it much.

    (That said, I would argue its more a problem of not enough health than too much damage, but this is ArenaNet, so..)

    Yes. While damage has gone up, health has remained at 2012 levels.

    Aaaand.... let's do some mathematics:
    Most people have 10-30k HPs.
    At 10k DPS, players live for 1-3 seconds.

    There, that wasn't difficult, was it?

    You aren't really doing 10k DPS in WvW though. Players move, stun you, you build for survivability, you don't have max might, quickness, alacrity, etc.

    Yeah, is possible with AoEs and buffs to hit or break that, but unless you are getting one shot, you only die in 3 seconds if you do absolutely nothing about it, and it's a glass build hitting you.

    In theory, my thief can kill almost any build in about 4-6 button presses. In reality, that never happens because I don't fight AFK people.

    Umm, you can do a10k burning tick with a single burst from burn Guardian under easy access to Stability.. so yes. I guess you've never used arcDPS in WvW before. Sure, you'll never reach anywhere near 25-30k like in PvE (due to what you said), but 10k is doable easily.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW) | ♀♥♀

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You can do enough DPS on any class to down someone with max Vitality in seconds, its been too much for too long. Even the currently accepted minimal DPS of 10k in PvE is extremely dangerous in PvP/WvW situations, and that should tell you something.

    And no, measures like amulets and game splitting, etc. don't really reduce it much.

    (That said, I would argue its more a problem of not enough health than too much damage, but this is ArenaNet, so..)

    Yes. While damage has gone up, health has remained at 2012 levels.

    Aaaand.... let's do some mathematics:
    Most people have 10-30k HPs.
    At 10k DPS, players live for 1-3 seconds.

    There, that wasn't difficult, was it?

    You aren't really doing 10k DPS in WvW though. Players move, stun you, you build for survivability, you don't have max might, quickness, alacrity, etc.

    Yeah, is possible with AoEs and buffs to hit or break that, but unless you are getting one shot, you only die in 3 seconds if you do absolutely nothing about it, and it's a glass build hitting you.

    In theory, my thief can kill almost any build in about 4-6 button presses. In reality, that never happens because I don't fight AFK people.

    Umm, you can do a10k burning tick with a single burst from burn Guardian under easy access to Stability.. so yes. I guess you've never used arcDPS in WvW before. Sure, you'll never reach anywhere near 25-30k like in PvE (due to what you said), but 10k is doable easily.

    Okay one build can cheese itself to stupid high sustained DPS in WvW. That build also dies as quick as kills when it's not hiding in a zerg.

    Yes I do use arc. The only times I've seen anyone sustain 10k+ is on stationary targets (NPCs) and bursting a group down. Any person who doesn't suck at the game is going to defend themselves. Pop an invulnv, dodge, stun, evades, etc. That time that you can't hurt them, is your DPS dropping. Every fight that lasts longer than 3 seconds, is a fight you aren't doing 10k DPS.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    When powercreep gets to a point that the best defense is having more offensive pressure then a change needs to be made imo.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    Extreme damage, extreme sustain. Even in PvE, a boss that takes a minute or two in the hands of experienced players that some mechanics become useless is a joke.

    The numbers should go down; either damage or sustain. It shouldn't lead to endless fights either.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You can do enough DPS on any class to down someone with max Vitality in seconds, its been too much for too long. Even the currently accepted minimal DPS of 10k in PvE is extremely dangerous in PvP/WvW situations, and that should tell you something.

    And no, measures like amulets and game splitting, etc. don't really reduce it much.

    (That said, I would argue its more a problem of not enough health than too much damage, but this is ArenaNet, so..)

    Yes. While damage has gone up, health has remained at 2012 levels.

    Aaaand.... let's do some mathematics:
    Most people have 10-30k HPs.
    At 10k DPS, players live for 1-3 seconds.

    There, that wasn't difficult, was it?

    You aren't really doing 10k DPS in WvW though. Players move, stun you, you build for survivability, you don't have max might, quickness, alacrity, etc.

    Yeah, is possible with AoEs and buffs to hit or break that, but unless you are getting one shot, you only die in 3 seconds if you do absolutely nothing about it, and it's a glass build hitting you.

    In theory, my thief can kill almost any build in about 4-6 button presses. In reality, that never happens because I don't fight AFK people.

    Umm, you can do a10k burning tick with a single burst from burn Guardian under easy access to Stability.. so yes. I guess you've never used arcDPS in WvW before. Sure, you'll never reach anywhere near 25-30k like in PvE (due to what you said), but 10k is doable easily.

    And you can also cleanse that instantly. That kind of dps rarely happen unless its a zerg scenario and AoE dps. I doubt my condi engie even reach 5k dps and I can outsustain a "30k dps" power scourge in 1v1. Dps doesnt really measure up in WvW.

    I wouldnt really be against more hp across the board, but we are talking maybe 3-5K tops then. It would help certain gank specs more than anything (ie meta marauders can now go full zerker) so it would only increase the power creep anyway. Not sure if thats the intent.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You can do enough DPS on any class to down someone with max Vitality in seconds, its been too much for too long. Even the currently accepted minimal DPS of 10k in PvE is extremely dangerous in PvP/WvW situations, and that should tell you something.

    And no, measures like amulets and game splitting, etc. don't really reduce it much.

    (That said, I would argue its more a problem of not enough health than too much damage, but this is ArenaNet, so..)

    Yes. While damage has gone up, health has remained at 2012 levels.

    Aaaand.... let's do some mathematics:
    Most people have 10-30k HPs.
    At 10k DPS, players live for 1-3 seconds.

    There, that wasn't difficult, was it?

    You aren't really doing 10k DPS in WvW though. Players move, stun you, you build for survivability, you don't have max might, quickness, alacrity, etc.

    Yeah, is possible with AoEs and buffs to hit or break that, but unless you are getting one shot, you only die in 3 seconds if you do absolutely nothing about it, and it's a glass build hitting you.

    In theory, my thief can kill almost any build in about 4-6 button presses. In reality, that never happens because I don't fight AFK people.

    Umm, you can do a10k burning tick with a single burst from burn Guardian under easy access to Stability.. so yes. I guess you've never used arcDPS in WvW before. Sure, you'll never reach anywhere near 25-30k like in PvE (due to what you said), but 10k is doable easily.

    And you can also cleanse that instantly. That kind of dps rarely happen unless its a zerg scenario and AoE dps. I doubt my condi engie even reach 5k dps and I can outsustain a "30k dps" power scourge in 1v1. Dps doesnt really measure up in WvW.

    I wouldnt really be against more hp across the board, but we are talking maybe 3-5K tops then. It would help certain gank specs more than anything (ie meta marauders can now go full zerker) so it would only increase the power creep anyway. Not sure if thats the intent.

    To be fair, burn brands have their burn doing 7-10k ticks by the second tick, so it's not hard to have one sneak 15-20k HP off of you before you realize it's something you need to cleanse.

    Sure in a 1v1 it's easy to deal with, but when they are hiding in even a small group it will mess you up.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I disagree with the title of the thread. The balance patch will typically look very pretty, It will barely change things on the broad picture, sure, but the little change that will be done will be seen as satisfying little steps. Most changes will appear very smart (even if they are gamebreaking and fail to achieve the results expected).

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I disagree with the title of the thread. The balance patch will typically look very pretty, It will barely change things on the broad picture, sure, but the little change that will be done will be seen as satisfying little steps. Most changes will appear very smart (even if they are gamebreaking and fail to achieve the results expected).

    Indeed, the title could have been more descriptive, but I believe it would not fit the field if it was. The EFFECTS of the balance patch will look bad, i.e. imbalance will seem to occur.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain