Wvw without fb and scourge — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Wvw without fb and scourge

Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

Comments

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Your post assumes they are broken.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowresli.3782 said:
    why not disable all elites, core specialisations only

    ... so the zerg will consist of guards and necros then?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    all-warrior-slaughterhouse (+ some mesmer to port them in)

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    Your post assumes they are broken.

    Post wasn't assuming anything really, just wondered how forum members thought zerg battles would play out without fb and scourges doing their thing.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    This part. To be ‘properly fixed’, something has to be broken..

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    This part. To be ‘properly fixed’, something has to be broken..

    Oh so u think fb boon spam etc and scourges mechanics are not in need of a fix? I stated that due to the dev's stating it was somthing their keeping a eye on for future changes so I am assume they think it needs some "fixing"
    Top 4 classes for kills in gw2 efficiency site are 3 guards and 4th a necro lol hmmm weird!
    I for one definitely hope cal plays a lot of the mode to determine fixes that don't ruin any specs but all while allowing some others to shine.
    I definitely am not surprised at the population decline of the mode given how the zerg battles play out at this time.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    This part. To be ‘properly fixed’, something has to be broken..

    Oh so u think fb boon spam etc and scourges mechanics are not in need of a fix? I stated that due to the dev's stating it was somthing their keeping a eye on for future changes so I am assume they think it needs some "fixing"
    Top 4 classes for kills in gw2 efficiency site are 3 guards and 4th a necro lol hmmm weird!
    I for one definitely hope cal plays a lot of the mode to determine fixes that don't ruin any specs but all while allowing some others to shine.
    I definitely am not surprised at the population decline of the mode given how the zerg battles play out at this time.

    Actually, I haven’t stated what I think other than you have started your post with a pre condition.

    When your starting premise is something is broken therefore we remove it, then it is leading people to respond that something would be improved.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    This part. To be ‘properly fixed’, something has to be broken..

    Oh so u think fb boon spam etc and scourges mechanics are not in need of a fix? I stated that due to the dev's stating it was somthing their keeping a eye on for future changes so I am assume they think it needs some "fixing"
    Top 4 classes for kills in gw2 efficiency site are 3 guards and 4th a necro lol hmmm weird!
    I for one definitely hope cal plays a lot of the mode to determine fixes that don't ruin any specs but all while allowing some others to shine.
    I definitely am not surprised at the population decline of the mode given how the zerg battles play out at this time.

    Actually, I haven’t stated what I think other than you have started your post with a pre condition.

    When your starting premise is something is broken therefore we remove it, then it is leading people to respond that something would be improved.

    Well something being improved is the point isn't it? Regardless I wanted to hear some forum members thoughts on what zerg battles would change and how they m9st likely would play out and just gave a reference to fix as a reason to disable them from wvw to fit the question.
    I don't really care who thinks they're balanced or not as there's a ton of threads discussing that issue already.

  • Probably a lot more melee with warrior bubble trains. Boons would still be op, gotta strip them somehow.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A lot of warriors.
    Revs would be useless doing no damage and non-crits to stance warrior blobs.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • @Justine.6351 said:
    A lot of warriors.
    Revs would be useless doing no damage and non-crits to stance warrior blobs.

    Revs would still have some use with dwarf stability and elite.

    Id also guess that there would be more staff daredevils and eles.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    A lot of warriors.
    Revs would be useless doing no damage and non-crits to stance warrior blobs.

    Revs would still have some use with dwarf stability and elite.

    Id also guess that there would be more staff daredevils and eles.

    Warriors would have their own stability and their own damage reduction, why bring jalis.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    there are several ways to share stab but guard has the biggest range and most application of it. some other decent ways of stripping boons too but again necro does it en masse so its hard to compete.
    might look like:
    dwarf rev
    soulbeast stance share
    mes mantras
    spellbreaker
    daredevil staff

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lots of Warrior and Engi most likely. Since you wont have as much support from friendlies it'll be "take whatever you can build like a brick kitten house" then hop on the melee train.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    Rangers will still be not invited in squads.
    Firebrands and Scourges will just stick to their core classes with the same gear. Maybe staves for necros would be of use again.
    Definitely an increase in Spellbreakers. Might even have more Spellbreakers than Heralds.
    A Scrapper and a Tempest here and there.

    So basically the same thing just more Spellbreakers.

    Exploit people's good will and optimism.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Then we could also have roaming without thieves and rangers.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    there are several ways to share stab but guard has the biggest range and most application of it. some other decent ways of stripping boons too but again necro does it en masse so its hard to compete.
    might look like:
    dwarf rev
    soulbeast stance share
    mes mantras
    spellbreaker
    daredevil staff

    Wouldn't it be better to have to mix and match a variety of specs to amass boons similar to fb's boon spam and scourges boon tips or corrupts?

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Core guardian and core necro would still be pretty strong for large scale combat. But without firebrand and scourge spam you'd probably see more spellbreakers, scrappers, heralds, tempests and reapers. The amount of mesmers, thieves and rangers you'd see wouldn't change. I suspect the boonball/hammertrain meta would make a return. (Personally I found that more fun than today's ranged bomb meta.)

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Fort Aspenwood.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Core guardian and core necro would still be pretty strong for large scale combat. But without firebrand and scourge spam you'd probably see more spellbreakers, scrappers, heralds, tempests and reapers. The amount of mesmers, thieves and rangers you'd see wouldn't change. I suspect the boonball/hammertrain meta would make a return. (Personally I found that more fun than today's ranged bomb meta.)

    ~ Kovu

    Yeah see all I'm hearing is more variety and more chance for melee battles which to me sounds way more fun and engaging. Even rangers etc could maybe shine a bit with stance sharing and with lack of insane retaliation and shields etc maybe back line rangers could be a thing.

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Core guardian and core necro would still be pretty strong for large scale combat. But without firebrand and scourge spam you'd probably see more spellbreakers, scrappers, heralds, tempests and reapers. The amount of mesmers, thieves and rangers you'd see wouldn't change. I suspect the boonball/hammertrain meta would make a return. (Personally I found that more fun than today's ranged bomb meta.)

    ~ Kovu

    Yeah see all I'm hearing is more variety and more chance for melee battles which to me sounds way more fun and engaging. Even rangers etc could maybe shine a bit with stance sharing and with lack of insane retaliation and shields etc maybe back line rangers could be a thing.

    Not more variety, you would probably play 2 core guard in each group to replace 1 FB and the 15/20 scourge would be replaced by several reapers but mostly spellbreakers. The group with more bubbles would crush the other servers so it would end up in a giant cloud with spellbreaker, weaver, revs to counter it.
    FB brings more solutions to the current state of the game than problems

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To add to that, stance share ranger isn't going to be a thing until they get decent AoE cleave on demand. Piercing arrows and slow-kitten greatsword swings just won't compare to the stuff the meta professions bring to the table area damage-wise. (Especially with the projectile hate being what it is.) The stances alone aren't all that stellar (yay, one source of small radius shared stability) for large group play. Rangers will have their place as pick and de-siegers, but unless guardians, necromancers, elementalists, revenants and warriors are removed from the game entirely nobody is going to want a ranger of similar skill level taking up a slot in their party over one of the other aforementioned professions.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Fort Aspenwood.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    This part. To be ‘properly fixed’, something has to be broken..

    Well you have 1 class that practically does everything better than everything else except for the 1 thing it doesn't have access to (boon corrupt), so yes, at least 1 out of the 2 is broken. Can a scourge be called broken if it's repeatedly being nerfed and cannon fodder for ranged classes? Can't really say that.. Is the class broken if people's sole problem with it is they don't know how to "not stand" in the red circles? Hardly..

    But when 1 class can stop an entire ranged zerg simply due to the the fact it has a lower cool down and far longer up-time skill than any unblockables.. well Houston, we have a problem. That's just 1 of a plethora of issues.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    This part. To be ‘properly fixed’, something has to be broken..

    Well you have 1 class that practically does everything better than everything else except for the 1 thing it doesn't have access to (boon corrupt), so yes, at least 1 out of the 2 is broken. Can a scourge be called broken if it's repeatedly being nerfed and cannon fodder for ranged classes? Can't really say that.. Is the class broken if people's sole problem with it is they don't know how to "not stand" in the red circles? Hardly..

    But when 1 class can stop an entire ranged zerg simply due to the the fact it has a lower cool down and far longer up-time skill than any unblockables.. well Houston, we have a problem. That's just 1 of a plethora of issues.

    This. This right here is a very strange thing to say when the meta is pirateship and has been pirateship since firebrand has been around. I do not think you have any idea of what you are talking about.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    it's going to be more of a pirate ship thing. lots of revs, eles, rangers, mesmers, and even warriors will be using rifle or bow. it'll be very boring if no one pushes

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    Your post assumes they are broken.

    Which would be entirely accurate.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    scourge is nothing, they are super squishy, the core problem is the fbs, a single good fb can carry 4 trashy team mates in pvp arena just show how powerful they are

    i feel the problem is fb's capability to not only sustain others but themselves, if Anet thrower a spanner to make Guardians need to sacrifice self sustain for group sustain, perhaps that will make more interesting gameplay

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    scourge is nothing, they are super squishy, the core problem is the fbs, a single good fb can carry 4 trashy team mates in pvp arena just show how powerful they are

    i feel the problem is fb's capability to not only sustain others but themselves, if Anet thrower a spanner to make Guardians need to sacrifice self sustain for group sustain, perhaps that will make more interesting gameplay

    that is asking for 2 fbs in a group

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    it's going to be more of a pirate ship thing. lots of revs, eles, rangers, mesmers, and even warriors will be using rifle or bow. it'll be very boring if no one pushes

    Well I donno I'd be alot more inclined to go in for some melee fights if fb wasnt boon farting loading up there zerg and scourges wernt spreading death carpets throughout and around its zerg at a rediculous rate. Just me though lol.
    Rev and ele bombs are more manageable in my opinion.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    it's going to be more of a pirate ship thing. lots of revs, eles, rangers, mesmers, and even warriors will be using rifle or bow. it'll be very boring if no one pushes

    Well I donno I'd be alot more inclined to go in for some melee fights if fb wasnt boon farting loading up there zerg and scourges wernt spreading death carpets throughout and around its zerg at a rediculous rate. Just me though lol.
    Rev and ele bombs are more manageable in my opinion.

    well it's always ok to try. :3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    it's going to be more of a pirate ship thing. lots of revs, eles, rangers, mesmers, and even warriors will be using rifle or bow. it'll be very boring if no one pushes

    Well I donno I'd be alot more inclined to go in for some melee fights if fb wasnt boon farting loading up there zerg and scourges wernt spreading death carpets throughout and around its zerg at a rediculous rate. Just me though lol.
    Rev and ele bombs are more manageable in my opinion.

    well it's always ok to try. :3

    Somtimes it's all u can do lol

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    You want to know? You REALLY really want to know? Cause you won't like it.

    tl;dr: Double Rev and Spellbreakers (Number of SB depends on people not getting bored playing a melee class at range like the current meta. Why do you think people don't play it even though it has a major impact?)

    With NO Necro and NO Guardian it would look like this:

    • Condi Rev (Jalis/Mallix) (1:5) for resistance spam + Banish Enchantment (You don't think people won't learn how to use it? Cause they will if forced to.)

      • Condi Rev is tossup between Core and Herald. Core's Energy Regen allows more casts of Pain Absorption or more importantly Banish Enchantment. Cuppled with Opportune Extraction which has one of the highest rates to strip stability first out of almost any skill in the game allows good stability stripping even without Necro. Herald on the other hand would allow an extra 3 stacks of Stability through True Nature - Dwarf Traited. Of course this like kind of a waste of a trait-line especally with...
    • Power Rev (Jalis/Glint) (1:5)

      • Inspiring Reinforcement is truely an overlooked skill. Without Guardian Stab spam this open up a new chapter for IR especally considering it's the only PULSING GROUP STABILITY in the game. Rite of the Great Dwarf providing an extra 50% Damage reduction is also really undervalued. Depending on what traitlines are used it could also have the potential to be traited for extra condition resistance as well, but that depends on the meta and that would probably fall under condi rev Jalis. Speaking of it's DOUBLE RotGD. That's pretty much a 50%-75% uptime and it was already op enough... Trust me when I say it has saved more fights then you can imagine.
    • Support Scrapper (1:5)

      • Big surprise. While Support Tempest could probably be better with offensive support Scrapper still brings high healing, still converts boons, and still has Stealth Gyro. Because Detection pulse is also getting changed over to Goggles depending on pressure that people feel over Bulwark Gyro it could be swapped out depending on how stealth continues to shake the meta for advanced groups. If that were true we might actually possibly see an increase in P/S combined with Overshield to increase protection uptime due to the loss of Guard. Also Super Speed Spam gotta just put that one out there.
    • Support/CC Tempest (1:5 or 1:10 with 1:10 being more likely)

      • Tricky one here most likely we'll see Staff and D/W both get used with swapping coming up when out of battle. (and come on how many times have you accidently reset your ArcDPS due to exiting combat. It's like that but weaponized. Anyway most likely it will be Arcane Wave (Imob Spam), "Aftershock!", and "Eye of the Storm" for a bit as people adjust to lack of Firebrand stunbreaking their lazy kitten for them after it will switch to Lightning Flash or for the less brave/insane it will be "Flash Freeze". Hard CC + Soft CC imobs also work well with the lack of resistance spam until people re-adjust to Mallyx Rev and lack of sharing. Combined with Winds of Disenchantment and added CC from Call to Anguish and Scrapper Hammer 5. Static could catch a lot of people again with out the hard carry guards.
    • Berserker Power. (1:5 or 1:10 with 1:5 most likely)

      • Remember Arc Divider and when it got buffed and it instantly downed 5 people at once so they had to nerf it by 25%? Well it's still kitten powerfull and while Berserker might be even harder to survive on now unless you're running Defence line it should make a good addition if the meta were to swerve away from pure ranged to a sort of in-out meta. Mostly combining AD with Hammer Stun (which also imobs in rage BTW) could work well. Though I still find the idea of Pure Melee risky with WoD still a thing. Speaking of...
    • Spellbreaker Power (1:10)

      • I mean Anet literally made a skill just to destroy the boon train meta. WoD is still a thing and without corrupts from necros it will hit twice as hard. I can see it being used by novice groups as an ambush and snowball tactic from stealth with Scrapper. Sadly people will complain about this skill being OP and quite rightfully so cause GUESS WHAT? It seems like the only thing keeping it in check is boon corruption and not just removal. That's because warrior has a Balanced Stance which pulses stability to them which means the only way to stop their attack is to corrupt their stability to fear, apply lots of imob and chill and hope he doesn't catch up with you (and your permanent superspeed), or keep stripping and pray that some CC, ANY CC, hits them between pulses. That has to happen for every spellbreaker. So ya. Spellbreaker WoD
        (not spellbreaker as a whole) mostly lacks counters without necro.
    • Staff Deardevil (??? : ???) Probably not...

      • Ok, Vault is powerful we all know that. But is it worth sacrificing a spot on a roster for a class that doesn't really bring anything other then damage to the table? Maybe. Situational but potentally useful it would require a thief with loads of practice otherwise they would just outright be a detriment. If you do have such a thief consider replacing that Berserker with him. It's hard to recommend, but there it is.
    • Imob Spam Druid (Don't you : kitten leave) I'm serious.

      • Look anything Druid can do Tempest can do better (except immobilize) Druid can and will immobilize the kitten out of people, but there's a problem or two. First playing WvW you need your support to have condition cleanses. Ironically Druid sucks at condition cleansing. Second another draw of druid would be Grace of the Land. Of course considering Herald Might output it gets redundant. Of course the idea is that it could support Herald Might for near max uptime in stacks and considering the loss of Empower unless people quickly learn how to blast fire fields again it might actually come in handy. Of course it's only as good as what the enemy Condi Rev would let you do. Depending on how much energy they dedicate towards keeping your imob off vs stripping your boons it could turn out that you could sneak in more imob then you realize. BTW Pets would be Drakehound and Jungle Spider/Smokescale.
  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    2 core guards in every group
    1rev
    1-2 necros (my guess would be reaper)
    0-1 extra support in form of ele or scrapper

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    2 core guards in every group
    1rev
    1-2 necros (my guess would be reaper)
    0-1 extra support in form of ele or scrapper

    they probably want to remove guards and necros. else it will still be guards and necros

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @YTKafka.4681 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How different would zerg battles be if these two classes were disabled from the mode until their properly fixed. hypothetically of course.

    You want to know? You REALLY really want to know? Cause you won't like it.

    tl;dr: Double Rev and Spellbreakers (Number of SB depends on people not getting bored playing a melee class at range like the current meta. Why do you think people don't play it even though it has a major impact?)

    With NO Necro and NO Guardian it would look like this:

    • Condi Rev (Jalis/Mallix) (1:5) for resistance spam + Banish Enchantment (You don't think people won't learn how to use it? Cause they will if forced to.)

      • Condi Rev is tossup between Core and Herald. Core's Energy Regen allows more casts of Pain Absorption or more importantly Banish Enchantment. Cuppled with Opportune Extraction which has one of the highest rates to strip stability first out of almost any skill in the game allows good stability stripping even without Necro. Herald on the other hand would allow an extra 3 stacks of Stability through True Nature - Dwarf Traited. Of course this like kind of a waste of a trait-line especally with...
    • Power Rev (Jalis/Glint) (1:5)

      • Inspiring Reinforcement is truely an overlooked skill. Without Guardian Stab spam this open up a new chapter for IR especally considering it's the only PULSING GROUP STABILITY in the game. Rite of the Great Dwarf providing an extra 50% Damage reduction is also really undervalued. Depending on what traitlines are used it could also have the potential to be traited for extra condition resistance as well, but that depends on the meta and that would probably fall under condi rev Jalis. Speaking of it's DOUBLE RotGD. That's pretty much a 50%-75% uptime and it was already op enough... Trust me when I say it has saved more fights then you can imagine.
    • Support Scrapper (1:5)

      • Big surprise. While Support Tempest could probably be better with offensive support Scrapper still brings high healing, still converts boons, and still has Stealth Gyro. Because Detection pulse is also getting changed over to Goggles depending on pressure that people feel over Bulwark Gyro it could be swapped out depending on how stealth continues to shake the meta for advanced groups. If that were true we might actually possibly see an increase in P/S combined with Overshield to increase protection uptime due to the loss of Guard. Also Super Speed Spam gotta just put that one out there.
    • Support/CC Tempest (1:5 or 1:10 with 1:10 being more likely)

      • Tricky one here most likely we'll see Staff and D/W both get used with swapping coming up when out of battle. (and come on how many times have you accidently reset your ArcDPS due to exiting combat. It's like that but weaponized. Anyway most likely it will be Arcane Wave (Imob Spam), "Aftershock!", and "Eye of the Storm" for a bit as people adjust to lack of Firebrand stunbreaking their lazy kitten for them after it will switch to Lightning Flash or for the less brave/insane it will be "Flash Freeze". Hard CC + Soft CC imobs also work well with the lack of resistance spam until people re-adjust to Mallyx Rev and lack of sharing. Combined with Winds of Disenchantment and added CC from Call to Anguish and Scrapper Hammer 5. Static could catch a lot of people again with out the hard carry guards.
    • Berserker Power. (1:5 or 1:10 with 1:5 most likely)

      • Remember Arc Divider and when it got buffed and it instantly downed 5 people at once so they had to nerf it by 25%? Well it's still kitten powerfull and while Berserker might be even harder to survive on now unless you're running Defence line it should make a good addition if the meta were to swerve away from pure ranged to a sort of in-out meta. Mostly combining AD with Hammer Stun (which also imobs in rage BTW) could work well. Though I still find the idea of Pure Melee risky with WoD still a thing. Speaking of...
    • Spellbreaker Power (1:10)

      • I mean Anet literally made a skill just to destroy the boon train meta. WoD is still a thing and without corrupts from necros it will hit twice as hard. I can see it being used by novice groups as an ambush and snowball tactic from stealth with Scrapper. Sadly people will complain about this skill being OP and quite rightfully so cause GUESS WHAT? It seems like the only thing keeping it in check is boon corruption and not just removal. That's because warrior has a Balanced Stance which pulses stability to them which means the only way to stop their attack is to corrupt their stability to fear, apply lots of imob and chill and hope he doesn't catch up with you (and your permanent superspeed), or keep stripping and pray that some CC, ANY CC, hits them between pulses. That has to happen for every spellbreaker. So ya. Spellbreaker WoD
        (not spellbreaker as a whole) mostly lacks counters without necro.
    • Staff Deardevil (??? : ???) Probably not...

      • Ok, Vault is powerful we all know that. But is it worth sacrificing a spot on a roster for a class that doesn't really bring anything other then damage to the table? Maybe. Situational but potentally useful it would require a thief with loads of practice otherwise they would just outright be a detriment. If you do have such a thief consider replacing that Berserker with him. It's hard to recommend, but there it is.
    • Imob Spam Druid (Don't you : kitten leave) I'm serious.

      • Look anything Druid can do Tempest can do better (except immobilize) Druid can and will immobilize the kitten out of people, but there's a problem or two. First playing WvW you need your support to have condition cleanses. Ironically Druid sucks at condition cleansing. Second another draw of druid would be Grace of the Land. Of course considering Herald Might output it gets redundant. Of course the idea is that it could support Herald Might for near max uptime in stacks and considering the loss of Empower unless people quickly learn how to blast fire fields again it might actually come in handy. Of course it's only as good as what the enemy Condi Rev would let you do. Depending on how much energy they dedicate towards keeping your imob off vs stripping your boons it could turn out that you could sneak in more imob then you realize. BTW Pets would be Drakehound and Jungle Spider/Smokescale.

    To be honestly still sounds more fun than the garbage that it is now.
    Zerg covered with scourge aoe's resulting in almost insta death to any melee build that tries approaching any side of the zerg all while fb is crapping out perma boons to said zerg resulting in both zergs literally just spamming range aoe's/skills on a push/pull rotation.
    Pure garbage!

  • LadyHawk.5319LadyHawk.5319 Member ✭✭✭

    Minstrel Tempest out cleans and out heals FB guardians, while providing some protection, might. Minstrel scrappers, the former mega cleansers, are next in cleansing power, who actually convert those nasty condi's (burns converted to aegis, tyvm burn guards LOL), while providing some stab, protection. And it looks like maybe ventari Revs may come back (or be a real thing for the first time LOL). Jallis Rev provides stab and resistance. The focus on FBs as being the big bad support class meanie is a broken meme. Look around, there are other meta support classes that, with FBs, makes support strong. If you were to take guardians totally out of the picture, the effect would be nominal, as the other support classes would step up and fill in. Heck, Druid would prolly even come back. Talk about might stacking .... geesh! No aegis? Guess what, no one would have aegis, so no big deal. It's not like they wouldn't have aegis and you would .... your happy butt won't have it either. Also, well played spellbreakers can outstrip scourges. That is their soul reason for existing. Numerous classes are already cc'ing you, besides the scourge. See that weaver hiding, tucked away in the back ... mhmm .... How about this: Make WvW for pure dps classes only, no condi, power only, everyone just blow yourselves up. :s

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    To be honestly still sounds more fun than the garbage that it is now.
    Zerg covered with scourge aoe's resulting in almost insta death to any melee build that tries approaching any side of the zerg all while fb is crapping out perma boons to said zerg resulting in both zergs literally just spamming range aoe's/skills on a push/pull rotation.
    Pure garbage!

    Here's another:

    Scrapper Superspeed is preferable to Holo Leap due to open field applications and SS on blasts as well but incase it gets nerfed for some reason...

    "Zephyr Holo" DPS (1:20)
    Probably won't happen, but I have it on good authority that Holo can provide good support even without gyros. Of course the reason is "Why Holo then?". Basically Holo Forge 2 can be traited to have it's "jump pad" to give superspeed instead of swiftness. The jump pad also has no target cap as it works like a line basically allowing 50 Man superspeed. Problem is the jump pad is quite small so it's efficenty is limited outside of pushing chokes where people will run over the pad. Furthermore with Detection Pulse being switched to Utility Goggles off of Purge Gyro now all Engi specs have access to it. Could potentally open up some stealth counterplay depending on if it can be traited with gadgeteer (as it might be reclassified as a gadget) or even without it the anti-stealth is useful without suppor scrapper sacrificing a utility slot. Furthermore Shockwave and Light Beam have good potential for Hard CC in melee range but again it depends on how quickly Spellbreakers can be broken out of their Winds.

    Note: can also be traited for support as well but that feels like a waste personally as you could just Scrapper it up instead.

    Potentally something like this? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAwqlJwAZXMJGKWeX/vPA-zVRYbRDIG+zoXFQFSADPL6vsB-w

  • My posts now are typically made where there is no ability to crush dissent.
    This much is certain though. Damage/Burst in WvW are clearly broken.

  • jaif.3518jaif.3518 Member ✭✭✭

    In the old days we had GWEN - (Guard/War/Ele/Necro). GW - frontline, EN - back line. Mes/thief/ranger = skirmishers. Engineers? Nobody played em. :-)

    While the balance was all over the place, and guard play was boring (1-1-1-1-1-1...), I do think the overall dynamic of front-line, back-line, and skirmishers was more fun overall. Having to tactically coordinate front and back while maneuvering and keeping their front from hitting your back was a more complex macrogame than what we have now, IMO.

    -Jeff

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    2 core guards in every group
    1rev
    1-2 necros (my guess would be reaper)
    0-1 extra support in form of ele or scrapper

    Get a healing herald for each 10 players, they have passive regeb support above 1k, protection, and big aoe heals w/o use of ministrel.

  • Well, for sustain heal/cleanse we would use heal-scrappers.
    For Buffs, Speed, CC and stealth we also use scrappers.
    The damage can be done by power scrappers.
    For the boonstrip let's also use power-scrappers.
    Maybe a warrior for the bubble ;)

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It would be basically boon spam meta scourge is one of the few classes keeping boon spam in check with massive boon corrupt, and it is.

    Nerf boon spam and the meta will change quite a bit.

    Warriors firebrands guardians herald mesmers and soulbeast need to be nerfed in how much boons they can spam because its ridiculous, and its the reason scourge is so strong.

    I personally would rather we have stronger boon rip to deal with it at this point so necro can finally have its damage back on scourge, and maybe some condi back to core.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.