Why immobilize on chaotic interruption is not ok but NO ESCAPE IS OK?

CI used to be only on interrupt what is way harder to do, used to have a 3s cdNO ESCAPE have no cd and proc on daze and stun

what is the logic?

Duration is shorter, Most of warriors CC's have massive tells the only one thats mad quick is the dagger 3.Leg spec. is much more effective than No Escape tbh. And that triggers without a CC ;) That sad im not saying it should be changed.

The difference is thatMesmer CC;s which at the time were RNG random (inside chaos storm) and/or have 0 tell, Power Lock. The trait also did much more than just immobilize. It inflicted additional conditions and gave the owner boons out the wazoo. You stack this ontop of a profession or elite which has super high condi pressure and damage and it becomes omega obnoxious.

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Duration is shorter, Most of warriors CC's have massive tells the only one thats mad quick is the dagger 3.Leg spec. is much more effective than No Escape tbh. And that triggers without a CC ;) That sad im not saying it should be changed.

The difference is thatMesmer CC;s which at the time were RNG random (inside chaos storm) and/or have 0 tell, Power Lock. The trait also did much more than just immobilize. It inflicted additional conditions and gave the owner boons out the wazoo. You stack this ontop of a profession or elite which has super high condi pressure and damage and it becomes omega obnoxious.

no just no, first there's no massive tell, spellbreaker skills dont have that huge cast time, dagger 3 have no cast time at all, pommel bash has no cast, etc..now chaos storm have a massive tell you stay inside it if you want only, it proc only on interrupt not on disable, so you if you use a skill inside the old chaos storm it's your fault.

the argument to remove CI was,"you can't daze and imobilize at same time because it would feel like a stun and you have to waste a stun breaker and a cleanse", so why on spellbreakers that argument is not used? looks like spellbreakers an already easy class to play want more easy kills

@SeikeNz.3526 said:CI used to be only on interrupt what is way harder to do, used to have a 3s cdNO ESCAPE have no cd and proc on daze and stun

what is the logic?

Listing if no escape is good vs the meta build for a class / whether sb is favored in the 1v1.

Fb: no value / fb favoredWarrior: no value / mirrorRev: limited value / sb favoredEng: good value / sb favoredThief: no value / sb favoredRanger: limited value / sb favoredMesmer: no value / mesmer favoredEle: no value / evenNecro: good value / sb favored

Given this assessment, sb wins its matchups against every class that no escape would be useful taking against.

So given that, why take that trait over guard counter or pure strike, which help you vs classes that you aren't already supposed to beat 1v1.

Tldr: trait isn't broken, just dodge the cc.

Because if there's no 10 threads whining about it, it's all good and balanced :)

Is this seriously a thread?U can't compare skills and how balanced they are without considering the class using it and what kind of set up and follow up is possible depending on the class as that is a huge factor. U can't compare a imobilize skill being used by a spec that can do it out of stealth while dazing or stunning u all while covering them with the large amounts of cover condi's which will waste most people's clears etc before allowing them to move with a class that has a very basic playstyle and obvious skill animations. Old ci combo basically would be mirage pops out of stealth and imobilizes and stuns u so u literally have no reasonable counter play especially when how fast the spec can burst u from 100 to hp. More times than not by time u use all ur stun breaks and clears ur already dead.Most times u may as well just have taken ur hand off keyboard and just let it happen.A warrior imobilizes if it fazes u with a dagger 3 or shield bash for a few seconds not covering its opponent in crazy amount of condi's nor out a stealth giving the opponent far more chance for counterplay.I'm all for mesmers asking for buffs in places its needed and nerfs were there needed but to compare old ci combo and how mesmer as a class could utilize it to warrior and no escape is laughable as is any mesmer main defending the previous state of ci.

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Duration is shorter, Most of warriors CC's have massive tells the only one thats mad quick is the dagger 3.Leg spec. is much more effective than No Escape tbh. And that triggers without a CC ;) That sad im not saying it should be changed.

The difference is thatMesmer CC;s which at the time were RNG random (inside chaos storm) and/or have 0 tell, Power Lock. The trait also did much more than just immobilize. It inflicted additional conditions and gave the owner boons out the wazoo. You stack this ontop of a profession or elite which has super high condi pressure and damage and it becomes omega obnoxious.

Chaos storm technically still has no tell it just pops into reality for the most part. Anet changed nothing with its spawn or cast time. All they did was making more static and less rng. ITs now safer to walk into after the initial pulse and thats about the only realistic claim you can make.

Also so not attacking the mesmer who is camping in the chaos storm is acceptable? Also what about a target who was already immobilized and had the storm dropped on them? Should they just stand there and accept it? Not ever class has access to condi clear with no cast time and not all breakstuns remove conditions. Overall the old chaos storm was a mess because it was too random for both the mesmer and any foe. Ideally it it could have its rng factor reduce more but i wont go there.

If you are also going to argue that its my fault for using a skill in chaos storm cant i just say its your fault for letting the warrior get close enough to shank you with a dagger? How about you just keep away and you wont have that problem "woops" right you wont accept this logic of thinking when its turned back on you.

the argument to remove CI was,"you can't daze and imobilize at same time because it would feel like a stun and you have to waste a stun breaker and a cleanse", so why on spellbreakers that argument is not used? looks like spellbreakers an already easy class to play want more easy kills

Because the duration is short as i just told you.Its also not obnoxious when warriors hit you in with a cc and most cases if a warrior hits you with a cc the immobilize does not matter because the immobilize duration is shorter than most of the durations of the CC. The dagger 3 is one of the few exceptions where the immobilize is longer than the cc inflicted. In other words its rare you need to use both a stunbreak and a condi clear to get out of what this trait does and thats all the trait does. There is no extra boon generation or condition suppression ontop of that very short immobile

Keep in mind No Escape is ADEPT.CI was grandmaster.The reason its gone is becouse mesmer whiners are numerous.

@Ryan.9387 No Escape is good against mesmer, mesmer lacks condi removal, and the stunremoving tools mesmer has dont remove condis.You will blink away and stand still, or you will midnight and be rooted in place stealthed, getting whammed.

Against thief its good vs shadowstep.Against holo, its good againt tinypot, they still cant move.

And in general it has good synergy with dazes, 12s cd fullcounter?It is a very good trait, kinda niche tho, since it lasts only 1s, and since most abilities stun, so the root dont matter, since stunned foes cant move anyways.

A mechanic gives cc an immob at same time is always very critical in terms of balance. Means it also is for Warrior. BUT why it is less of a problem in ingame reality until now is the one big difference: It is only melee range. The second thing makes it a bit less omnipresent is that most Warriors cc is not instant. And on these few instant skills Spellbreakers also have a worse immob-/cc-duration vs. attack speed/dmg relation, means he does less dmg in a second because it is not a burst/ oneshot build no matter how you spec him (Evis might come close when hitting an Ele with berserker amulet but i think we all agree that Eviscerate is not a oneshot skill) and Warriors don't have cover condis (as long as no one discovers a working condi-spellbreaker build at least). On the other side Warriors don't need to interrupt what gives some problematic-points back (for the instant skills at least, that you can't expect a skill with cast time to interrupt anything on purpose is a nobrainer).

All in all in my view, it is in general a critical combination to give cc an immob additionally applied without delay by a trait. That this trait doesn't rly get used that much because alternatives are CONSIDERED better atm (doesn't even need to be true, i think the thoughts behind taking protection over it, is that Warriors job is more of surviving outnumbereds or hold the node in duels more than killing foes in conquest, in WvW the immob is already a better pick in my view) is no prove at all that it isn't problematic or unhealthy mechanic (as said the moment someone finds a working Condispellbreaker build with Covercondis this trait will become even more problematic and maybe will be used then, maybe alternatives get nerfs and make this trait more popular or whatever. That something doesn't get used never is a prove that it isn't op or unhealthy already).

I would recommend to rework the trait and give something else than immob before ppl start using and liking it and then will cry when it gets nerfed or reworked. Atm most PvP focused Sb wouldn't rly care i think. So don't wait until this trait will be used suddently for whatever reason and then will become a problem, duo to meta changes or because someone discovers a good build for it or whatever. It is clearly less of a problem then old CI on Mesmer duo to no range and less instant applications, with lower duration and less cover condis on a non burst/ oneshot class but it still is problematic. No matter if it gets used that often atm or not. I also would recommend to avoid a combination where cc gets an immob by trait without delay added at all in the future in case there will be any new elite specs.

Let's see. Old CI:

Had double immobilize duration of NE.Also randomly applied blind/chill/crippleAlso applied 5 stacks of mightAlso randomly applied fury/prot/swift/regen/vigor

And was available on a class that had far more ways to apply disasbles at ranged, and apply cover-conditions.

This isn't difficult to see why.....

Nevermind the fact that you cannot compare things 1:1 without considering the class as a whole. But I know you don't understand this.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:Uh Ryan, No Escape is the reason why Spellbreaker can even come close to winning that matchup against Weaver. Stop lying on the forums! :)

ehh, good old CI, poor necros ;p, I felt like a bully back then, didnt matter if I had no cooldowns and low hp, necro was free food anyways

@Ryan.9387 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:Uh Ryan, No Escape is the reason why Spellbreaker can even come close to winning that matchup against Weaver. Stop lying on the forums! :)

I too can 1v1 bad players and say I don't need certain traits to win a matchup versus a certain class, and then talk about it on the forums!

I'm reposting this and being extra careful:

They aren't exactly wrong mesmers in the past were infamous for the amount of spammable cc mobility and such.

I'd much rather get hit with a 1 sec daze than a constant barrage of stuns and immobs plus high condi applications.

@Axl.8924 said:I'm reposting this and being extra careful:

They aren't exactly wrong mesmers in the past were infamous for the amount of spammable cc mobility and such.

I'd much rather get hit with a 1 sec daze than a constant barrage of stuns and immobs plus high condi applications.

mesmer CC is one of the most fair out there, f3 deals 0 dmg and is a daze, unless traited.p5 is strong, but has a cast time, travel time and deals no damage.gs 5 deals no damage and doesnt last very long.curtain deals 0 dmg, utility only.torch 5 never lands, preety much uselesssword 3 super delayed, deals no damage and clone can be killed off.sword 4 slow, delayed and also deals 0 dmg.

Now that chaos storm no longer RNG dazes ( thx for that ) and CI gone there is literally nothing to complain about, now waiting for other special snowflake classes to get the same treatment.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I'm reposting this and being extra careful:

They aren't exactly wrong mesmers in the past were infamous for the amount of spammable cc mobility and such.

I'd much rather get hit with a 1 sec daze than a constant barrage of stuns and immobs plus high condi applications.

In the past, you could spam all sorts of detrimental CC on people and blow them up with condis and or power while dodging and on low CDs.Mesmers used to hard counter most classes and most people complained because they could spam cc invuln spam clones do a lot of dmg while evading all at the same time, and that's not counting also mirage which has gained a bad rep.

Then again, so has scourge, deadeye, and every other pof class that exists. All of them at one point or another created a huge gap of power creep between the old hot specs and pof specs and core, and Mesmer has been broken for years. I like Mesmer in PvE, but the spec had too much power that it broke the game and really wasn't healthy. The way a mesmer could in the past spam quickness invuln and the like was bad for the game, and created huge issues in SPVP.

For counterplay reasons, such things shouldn't be too spammable. at least that's my opinion.

I'm not sure how it is now, as a lot has changed in the last year or so.

@SeikeNz.3526 said:CI used to be only on interrupt what is way harder to do, used to have a 3s cdNO ESCAPE have no cd and proc on daze and stun

what is the logic?

1. Because Warriors don't run condi builds with expertise.
2. Because Warriors are melee and can't do it to you with a non projectile instant cast ranged skill straight out of stealth.
3. Because Warriors can't 1HKO you with a bunch of nuclear damage skills that all activate at the same time due to no animation frames.
4. Because Warriors can't 100% defensive play 1500 range away from an opponent while LOSing behind a wall and still kill them with instant ranged daze immobs and clone ambush spam bursting.

In other words: Because a Warrior, has to actually walk into your face with no expertise to elongate the immob, where you can actually hit him, swing a single attack that has animation time on it which allows it to be counter played, then attempt to follow up with other single use skills that all have animation times that can be counter played, with absolutely no instant cast damage skills to land a sudden death no-tell 1 Shot.

That's why.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:CI used to be only on interrupt what is way harder to do, used to have a 3s cdNO ESCAPE have no cd and proc on daze and stun

what is the logic?

1. Because Warriors don't run condi builds with expertise.
2. Because Warriors are melee and can't do it to you with a non projectile instant cast ranged skill straight out of stealth.
3. Because Warriors can't 1HKO you with a bunch of nuclear damage skills that all activate at the same time due to no animation frames.
4. Because Warriors can't 100% defensive play 1500 range away from an opponent while LOSing behind a wall and still kill them with instant ranged daze immobs and clone ambush spam bursting.

This^

My message got reported and removed! Anyways, No Escape is bad for the game like CI was, not as bad, but still should be removed.

Ryan please don't lie on the forums though!

Chaotic Interruption should randomly interrupt a player with a 10s daze once every 10 seconds in a 1200 unit radius around the mesmer, specifically targeting players when they are casting skills. This includes ally players and the mesmer themselves.

Mesmer tears literally make me cry with happiness

Honestly this game was doomed as soon as both expansions released.

OP doesnt even know how CI works, great. The 3s ICD was only against enemys with breakbar, so only applied to pve

Always thought no escape was more of a wvw trait.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:CI used to be only on interrupt what is way harder to do, used to have a 3s cdNO ESCAPE have no cd and proc on daze and stun

what is the logic?

This