Please, remove Social awkwardness from Siren's — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Please, remove Social awkwardness from Siren's

It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren'[email protected]", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.

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Comments

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    @FOX.3582
    Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes
    [/sarcasm]

    Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ...

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @FOX.3582 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    @FOX.3582
    Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes
    [/sarcasm]

    Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ...

    And yet you like it so much that you even post in the game forums, like I do, by the why. Let's keep trying to improve this great game with things like removing S.A. from Sirens, so a lot of people that are now skipping that fractal will return to play it again. Don't you agree?

    I don’t skip it and have 0 problems with it.

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2019

    I actually enjoy LFG posts of "Siren at boss" and other T4 at boss in general. Normally I can join them with a full support healbrand and carry the group without much problem to get some quick fractal encryptions.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    Siren's Reef has other issues and would need a rework besides removing yet again an instability from a fractal.

    Is Siren's Reef hard? No.
    Is it harder relative to most other T4 fractals? Yes.

    Primarily the mechanics which go against the games combat design would need adressing, aka the flood of enemies. Most combat skills are not designed to hit more than 5 targets, as such the amount of enemies spawned is contrary to how the combat in this game is designed. A possible solution would be to change the phases (or rather add phases with limited amount of enemies). Another thing could be to remove excess enemies after canon phases, the objective has been completed, no reason for these sponges to hang around.

    I'm not really affect myself since running CMs it's seldom to have issues on this fractal (though I have had situations where some player would leave even in CM groups, rare as it may happen). It's just not really a fun fractal.

    Also while reworking SIren's Reef, have another go at the Underwater Fractal. The only reason this doesn't come up as much complaint wise is the rarity with which it appears, but that one is most definatly redesigned for the worse.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2019

    Cleave, boon strip, and condi clear.

    if your group's damage sucks, then kill the adds. (use pulls). Also please don't rely on a scourge to cheese the fractal for you; it just means you don't learn anything and end up sadface when you have to do it yourself.

    I personally hate Hamstrung the most.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another thing could be to remove excess enemies after canon phases, the objective has been completed, no reason for these sponges to hang around.

    The enemies was removed after the canon phase in my run (T4 daily, roughly 2 days ago?). Not sure if its intended or the group I was with triggered something for it happen.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Is it harder relative to most other T4 fractals? Yes.

    That's the key. Combined with some set of instabilities (like SA), it becomes a nightmate for average pugs. In any case, it is not the difficulty what worries me, but the lack of people that want to run it, specially when the insts are a pain. When you play T4 and the last fractal is 78, It is quite common to see 1 or 2 players leaving the group.

    It's just not really a fun fractal.

    So true. It follows the rule of the new "After 99&100" fractal style: spam a lot of ground circles and tons of adds. Just because.

    Also while reworking SIren's Reef, have another go at the Underwater Fractal.

    100% agreed.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren'[email protected]", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.

    leave it be, if you cant do it then dont do it. let people that can do it, do it.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren'[email protected]", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.

    leave it be, if you cant do it then dont do it. let people that can do it, do it.

    For you and all the "git gud" boys that don't read: Again, and last time: it is not a matter of how difficult it is, but a matter of how bad design fractals keep more and more ppl skipping them from the daily run.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2019

    Yes, definitely, the mentality of needing to change players to fit the content, instead of making the content to fit the players is a genius approach, really. Too bad it never works.
    The approach of making players that dislike a certain content play that content by offering the incentives that are too good to pass on works way better, but ultimately it also doesn't end well.

    One would think that after years of seeing this in action more people would realize that, but it seems there are always those that think that this time it will work better.

    (btw, Siren's reef is definitely badly designed. It lacks the kind of mechanics that would make it into a interesting and challenging experience for the better groups, but has a lot of those that can make it anything from very annoying to absolute murder for the less skilled players. Basically, it doesn't offer anything interesting to anyone)

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    how bout just delete siren, seems like it is the most hated fractal, dethroning aquatic by a long mile

    i was laughing when Deroir said he refuses to do siren on the recent teatime :lol:

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2019

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    how bout just delete siren, seems like it is the most hated fractal, dethroning aquatic by a long mile

    i was laughing when Deroir said he refuses to do siren on the recent teatime :lol:

    He just doesnt like it. Its not about it being too difficult or an instability being too difficult. Or the combination of both. For him, Sirens Reef really drove home that there will never be a fractal CM - ever. And that any new fractal we get, will be a storymode one. For someone that loves fractal cms, that hurts.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, we could have a Siren's Reef CM

    Gets thrown out the window.

  • @Yasi.9065 said:
    Heres the thing though. Fractal instabilities are just additional mechanics to deal with. Some are easier to deal with, others are more difficult. Some are annoying, some you can basically ignore because you already have the toolkit to deal with them easily.

    So far we agree. Every people agree on that. Nothing new.

    SA is fine.

    Correction: SA is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.

    Sirens Reef is fine.

    Correction: Siren's Reef is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.

    What needs to change is the mentality of fractal pugs. Instead of skipping it you should find a way to deal easily with it.

    Are you serious? So Anet should change its business? Instead of developping (and changing) a game to attract more players, they should dedicate themselves to manipulate the mind of their potential playerbase? Social engineering? Come on!!!

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    People who struggle with Siren's Reef should honestly do more PvP and learn to control their space usage and dodges. It's not a hard fractal unless you're 1st time and no one bothers explaining the mechanics of the last fight.

    And SA isn't even that bad, you have to be reaaaaaaaally close for it to proc.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Instability isn't so effective if there is more build diversity in your group.

    It's most punishing if your teams is largely made up of your typical melee players.
    Gets some ranged builds on your team and it won't be as much of a problem, nor will any mechanic in the game that's designed to punish stacking tactics.. which is quite a lot of them tbh since that has been a common meta for several years.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    People who struggle with Siren's Reef should honestly do more PvP and learn to control their space usage and dodges. It's not a hard fractal unless you're 1st time and no one bothers explaining the mechanics of the last fight.

    Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

    And SA isn't even that bad, you have to be reaaaaaaaally close for it to proc.

    You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

    @Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 said:
    Instability isn't so effective if there is more build diversity in your group.

    This is the fractal in which that instability is precisely more effective. And build diversity has nothing to do with being pushed off the boat because of S.A.

    It's most punishing if your teams is largely made up of your typical melee players.

    You will be kicked from many T4 runs if you try to play a ranged class. And there are good reasons for it.

    Gets some ranged builds on your team and it won't be as much of a problem, nor will any mechanic in the game that's designed to punish stacking tactics.. which is quite a lot of them tbh since that has been a common meta for several years.

    You don't understand how the buff system works in gw2, and you have no idea how the boat fight is.

  • You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

    The only fractal where someone's 'kicked me off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.

    Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

    Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

    The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.

    That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

    Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

    Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?

    Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.
    Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    I dont understand all the people against this.

    Arent there a few fractals already that some instabilities black listed?

    Sirens reef has very little space, and then there's the green circle that requires players to stacl in..that is very hard to do with social awkwardness.

  • @FOX.3582 said:
    You know what? Let’s make this a game where we just log in and instantly get everything we want?! Why would we need some challenge and some chaos in games right?

    "Do you wanna build a strawman?"

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    I dont understand all the people against this.

    Arent there a few fractals already that some instabilities black listed?

    Sirens reef has very little space, and then there's the green circle that requires players to stacl in..that is very hard to do with social awkwardness.

    The problem is that the design of SR is quite terrible. It already has so many instabilities blacklisted. The way we are going it's going to end up only having half of the instabilities enabled.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    I dont understand all the people against this.

    Arent there a few fractals already that some instabilities black listed?

    Sirens reef has very little space, and then there's the green circle that requires players to stacl in..that is very hard to do with social awkwardness.

    The problem is that the design of SR is quite terrible. It already has so many instabilities blacklisted. The way we are going it's going to end up only having half of the instabilities enabled.

    I don't see that as a problem. They shouldve considered instabilities in the design. They didn't.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Heres the thing though. Fractal instabilities are just additional mechanics to deal with. Some are easier to deal with, others are more difficult. Some are annoying, some you can basically ignore because you already have the toolkit to deal with them easily.

    So far we agree. Every people agree on that. Nothing new.

    I dont think you really know what I said there, but okay.

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    SA is fine.

    Correction: SA is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.

    Majority? Proof? Wheres the data?

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Sirens Reef is fine.

    Correction: Siren's Reef is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.

    Again. Data?

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    What needs to change is the mentality of fractal pugs. Instead of skipping it you should find a way to deal easily with it.

    Are you serious? So Anet should change its business? Instead of developping (and changing) a game to attract more players, they should dedicate themselves to manipulate the mind of their potential playerbase? Social engineering? Come on!!!

    You and sadly many others havent yet realized that computer games arent an interactive movie with chatroom.
    Let me put it bluntly: If you want your daily dopamin rush, then earn it. You are getting handed out more than enough in GW2 already. Stop demanding nerfs to every little tiny challenge in the game left. If you cant handle it (skillwise, emotionally or whatever) then go somewhere else. GW2 is big enough for you to not bother with something you dont like.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    I dont understand all the people against this.

    Arent there a few fractals already that some instabilities black listed?

    Sirens reef has very little space, and then there's the green circle that requires players to stacl in..that is very hard to do with social awkwardness.

    5 people fit into the green circle with SA, Ive seen that more than enough. But you dont even need 5... or 3..., just 1 additional person is already enough to not downstate from the attack on a squishy class - without protection.

    Lets face it, the problem with Sirens Reef is people not understanding how the game works. I often see pugs wipe because theres no protection, no condi cleanse, no reflect and people dropping red circles on the boss. Not to mention, everyone getting blown of the ship at least once.

    You can start demanding nerfs to an instability in a fractal when a group that without the instability has no trouble (as in: all mechanics dealt with in one way or another without constantly downstating), suddenly has immense trouble getting the fractal finished. Thats a valid complain, since instabilities arent supposed to impact that much. However saying things like "its unfun, I dont like it, the mystical majority doesnt like it" are NOT valid complaints. And just because a group that ALREADY struggles without an instability suddenly cant kill the boss anymore, doesnt mean thats because of that instability and both should be nerfed. Rather: the group that struggles should take a look at itself and IMPROVE to the point where its just a mere annoyance because ah well, its not a golem boss.

    And before some smart person argues with gatekeeping, GW2 is an MMORPG. Its not candy crush. In an MMORPG it is absolutely fine to have content that cant be finished by everyone. Thats part of this genre. Thats the big motivation behind playing an MMORPGs. Not the loot. Not the community. Those are just filler. Its the goals and the dopaminrush you get from finally.. FINALLY getting that goal finished. GW2 is already quite far from that principle, which seems to be the reason why some people think its okay to push and bully Anets Devs even more towards turning GW2 into candy crush. Please stop it. Its ridiculous. And easymode loot wont give you that dopamin high you want anyway.

  • @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

    The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.

    That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

    Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

    Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?

    Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.
    Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

    Never once did I say it's "just a matter of dodging". Don't twist my words, only villains do that. If you think there's nothing similar to PvP in the last boat fight, you're gravely mistaken and, unfortunately, shallow-minded as well.

  • just remove social awkwardness altogether ez

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    If the problem for you and most of the pugs (according to you) is the pushing mechanic of SA, why ask for removal? Propose a change, like make Social Awkwardness behave how it used to in Siren's Reef.

    There you go - no more pushing, and the instability will still be there for those that are not mechanically handicapped.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2019

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Heres the thing though. Fractal instabilities are just additional mechanics to deal with. Some are easier to deal with, others are more difficult. Some are annoying, some you can basically ignore because you already have the toolkit to deal with them easily.

    So far we agree. Every people agree on that. Nothing new.

    I dont think you really know what I said there, but okay.

    I am starting to think that you are smarter than me.

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    SA is fine.

    Correction: SA is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.

    Majority? Proof? Wheres the data?

    Just make a search in these forums with "social awkwardness" term and read a bit. I won't do it for you.

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Sirens Reef is fine.

    Correction: Siren's Reef is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.

    Again. Data?

    Just make a search in these forums with "Siren's reef" term and read a bit. I won't do it for you.

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    What needs to change is the mentality of fractal pugs. Instead of skipping it you should find a way to deal easily with it.

    Are you serious? So Anet should change its business? Instead of developping (and changing) a game to attract more players, they should dedicate themselves to manipulate the mind of their potential playerbase? Social engineering? Come on!!!

    You and sadly many others havent yet realized that computer games arent an interactive movie with chatroom.
    Let me put it bluntly: If you want your daily dopamin rush, then earn it. You are getting handed out more than enough in GW2 already. Stop demanding nerfs to every little tiny challenge in the game left. If you cant handle it (skillwise, emotionally or whatever) then go somewhere else. GW2 is big enough for you to not bother with something you dont like.

    Let me put in bluntly (for the third time, dedicated to the "git gud" boys):

    @Pirindolo.9427 " said:
    For you and all the "git gud" boys that don't read: Again, and last time: it is not a matter of how difficult it is, but a matter of how bad design fractals keep more and more ppl skipping them from the daily run.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2019

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

    The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.

    That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

    Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

    Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?

    Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.
    Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

    Never once did I say it's "just a matter of dodging". Don't twist my words, only villains do that. If you think there's nothing similar to PvP in the last boat fight, you're gravely mistaken and, unfortunately, shallow-minded as well.

    Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019

    @blambidy.3216 said:
    The best part of slippery slope is having it with social awkwardness on cliff side. Pushing everyone off with the hammer. However people hated it even though it was the best part about cliff side instabilities.

    Well, apparently those people have disagreed with you about what constitutes "the best".

    (although, if you consider that to be the "best part", you must have a really bad opinion about all the other instabilities)

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

    The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.

    That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

    Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

    Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?

    Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.
    Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

    Never once did I say it's "just a matter of dodging". Don't twist my words, only villains do that. If you think there's nothing similar to PvP in the last boat fight, you're gravely mistaken and, unfortunately, shallow-minded as well.

    Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

    There are 4 tiers of fractals.

    If your party can't handle it, then do tier 3. What do you lose? It's just that extra daily chest, some extra relics, and a bruised ego. None of which is consequential.

  • 1 Thing I want to add to Siren's Reef is add the real blue breakbar to the last boss. I mean with that narrow place, wind blowing player from boat, chaotic enemies spawning, I think at least we deserve a breakbar to allow some burst.

  • @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @FOX.3582 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    @FOX.3582
    Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes
    [/sarcasm]

    Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ...

    And yet you like it so much that you even post in the game forums, like I do, by the why. Let's keep trying to improve this great game with things like removing S.A. from Sirens, so a lot of people that are now skipping that fractal will return to play it again. Don't you agree?

    Not really here to add anything to the discussion, just wanted to say that this post and the one after are friggin hilarious. Really enjoyed your wit in your comments. :p

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2019

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:

    Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

    I see, no answer for that. I won't insist then

    There are 4 tiers of fractals.

    If your party can't handle it, then do tier 3. What do you lose? It's just that extra daily chest, some extra relics, and a bruised ego. None of which is consequential.

    T4 has been a success over 99% of the times for me and my groups. But we are nottalking about me, even if you insist on it. What you seem to not understand is that nothing about this thread is about my personal taste or my personal problems to run this fractal. You probably think that I cannot deal with it, or maybe that I am such a bad player, that none of the pugs I land in are able to succeed. That's not the case. During the last years doing fractals, there have been less than 10 times in which I couldn't make a successful, complete T4 run. All of the cases, except for one, were because of Siren's with bad insts (S.A. being the worst in all cases). And in most cases I wasn't even able to start the fractal, because most players refused to do it.

  • sarkysek.1085sarkysek.1085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren'[email protected]", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.

    Please remove Siren's Reef from the game. It's the most unfun content I've ever played in over 6 years and I cringe every time I see it as daily.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2019

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    T4 has been a success over 99% of the times for me and my groups. But we are nottalking about me, even if you insist on it. What you seem to not understand is that nothing about this thread is about my personal taste or my personal problems to run this fractal. You probably think that I cannot deal with it, or maybe that I am such a bad player, that none of the pugs I land in are able to succeed. That's not the case. During the last years doing fractals, there have been less than 10 times in which I couldn't make a successful, complete T4 run. All of the cases, except for one, were because of Siren's with bad insts (S.A. being the worst in all cases). And in most cases I wasn't even able to start the fractal, because most players refused to do it.

    No, I don't care if you can do it or not. That's not my problem. Point is people don't have to skip SR completely; just roll a lower tier of it. If the group wants to do the other t4s and just a lower SR's, then it's hardly an issue. My post wasn't even about skill so no idea about what that's about.

    I'm speaking in general to all that read this thread, not just about you. Note that I said your party

    It simply is a non-issue. Not everything has to be done, just because it exists. Oh, and besides, it's not SA that is the problem with SR anyways. There are many worse combos that do not contain SA. I think the fractal would be much better if they would clear the adds between fights and not give mobs 1,000,000 aggro range.

  • Huh, as a support I'd wish for MORE content like Siren's Reef. One of the funniest encounters in the game imo.

    Now imagine if SA also dealt damage, the guys who bump you around would probably learn that they have an AOE field around their feet.

    As an old WOW healer, I can confirm that people eventually learn to move away from the fire if they die instantly to it. If the fire doesn't do that much damage, but instead kills you in 2-3 ticks, everyone blames the healer for not playing their game for them :)

    The current system is simply too soft and allows people to fool around without real consequences, till they hit an encounter where bumping another dude over the side of the ship actually matters a lot.

  • @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:

    Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

    I see, no answer for that. I won't insist then

    There are 4 tiers of fractals.

    If your party can't handle it, then do tier 3. What do you lose? It's just that extra daily chest, some extra relics, and a bruised ego. None of which is consequential.

    T4 has been a success over 99% of the times for me and my groups. But we are nottalking about me, even if you insist on it. What you seem to not understand is that nothing about this thread is about my personal taste or my personal problems to run this fractal. You probably think that I cannot deal with it, or maybe that I am such a bad player, that none of the pugs I land in are able to succeed. That's not the case. During the last years doing fractals, there have been less than 10 times in which I couldn't make a successful, complete T4 run. All of the cases, except for one, were because of Siren's with bad insts (S.A. being the worst in all cases). And in most cases I wasn't even able to start the fractal, because most players refused to do it.

    That's entirely the players' fault for refusing to observe, learn and adapt - or, in the most common case, ask for tips . Don't blame the devs for the player base's innate cannibalism.

  • The thread is nicely meant, but you forget something. 90% of the people you address will not read it.
    The rest don't want to, or can't understand other people's problems and will always exaggerate that to the extreme ^^''.
    E.g. the point that Anet just can't manage to adapt a learning curve into the game. T1-t4 is a joke about that~. They make 99% only 1 1 1 content and then try to bring something heavy into the game. Well~, then everyone is surprised that it doesn't work ^^. And of course the players are to blame because they are so bad~ and don't want to adapt to this 1% of the game.

    On the other hand, it doesn't hurt anyone to just skip this 1%. I don't understand the mentality behind it. Just say, I can't, I'll try again later or leave it~.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2019

    @Finnkitkit.8304 said:
    On the other hand, it doesn't hurt anyone to just skip this 1%. I don't understand the mentality behind it. Just say, I can't, I'll try again later or leave it~.

    Oh, but it does hurt. Why? Because, as a result of this approach, this game has absolutely no midtier content. It's all either braindead easy, or hardcore tier.

    There are a lot of players that want something more than just "pressing 1". It doesn't mean that all those players want to spend days and weeks on learning their class and/or specific encounters. They want something that is engaging, not hard. And there's nothing like that in this game anymore. All the content like that got adjusted towards one of the extremes long ago.

    So, basically, it's not "just skip this 1%", but "just skip this 100%". And it works exactly as well as you might think it would.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Well, but... instead of targeting the one responsible, you're targeting each other. Trying to get each other's content broken. Because we know from the past what happens when you want things to be nerfed.
    Anet could easily create such midtier content. The question is, what is midtier for the large majority.

    For me as an individual raids are such midtier thing. HOT was great for me ... before everyone came and called it hardcore ...
    Well, at least after what's going on here in the forums, the majority wants easy content. No 1 1 1 content, but also no midtier content. Because ... sorry, but raids and other things are no 'extreme hardcore content'. Nothing in GW2 is hardcore~. And I just claim that I can say that as a moderate(middle-rate? What's the right word for that?) gamerin. I also have problems with things, die, ect. But gaming also involves adapting to things and learning ^^.
    And if someone needs weeks- in GW2 -to learn something ... that is for me personally a completely different story and has nothing to do with the game and its content.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    @Finnkitkit.8304 said:
    Well, but... instead of targeting the one responsible, you're targeting each other. Trying to get each other's content broken. Because we know from the past what happens when you want things to be nerfed.
    Anet could easily create such midtier content. The question is, what is midtier for the large majority.

    For me as an individual raids are such midtier thing. HOT was great for me ... before everyone came and called it hardcore ...
    Well, at least after what's going on here in the forums, the majority wants easy content. No 1 1 1 content, but also no midtier content. Because ... sorry, but raids and other things are no 'extreme hardcore content'. Nothing in GW2 is hardcore~. And I just claim that I can say that as a moderate(middle-rate? What's the right word for that?) gamerin. I also have problems with things, die, ect. But gaming also involves adapting to things and learning ^^.

    For me, such a midtier content were dungeons and fractals. Before Anet abandoned the former and messed with the latter.
    And your "easy content" that is above "1 1 1" is the midtier content i am speaking about. Anything you need to spend time to prepare and/or learn before you can be succesful is hardcore tier. That hardcore tier that exists in GW2 may not be hard for you, but it's still hardcore tier when seen as a part of a wider picture.

    And if someone needs weeks- in GW2 -to learn something ... that is for me personally a completely different story and has nothing to do with the game and its content.

    Hint: That "someone" is probably the majority of this game's players, you know. It's you that are not the average here, not them.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • In short, it's about getting 1 1 1 content.
    Because, besides raids and CM, everything is designed for dungeon-fractal difficulty. According to your statement, midtier content. Much is even easier.
    Where are your 100% Hardcore? So what's the problem with leaving these 1% to the people who like the "hardcore"?

    Maybe it's because my English is really not good~. But I'm not coming with right now ^^'''.